Jonathan Lovitz: Discusses his Work with the HRC and the NGLCC

At Highmark Health, we believe what makes us unique makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster a variety of skills to complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition as the Best Place to Work for the 10th year for individuals with disabilities in a survey by the American Association of People with Disabilities and Disability:IN. We'll continue to celebrate and benefit from the inclusion of all people. To find out more, visit highmarkhealth.org. Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show, to everyone across the United States. Oh my goodness. Such great listeners. You were such great listeners. You know, 2 months ago, you've probably heard me talk about this, but it was my 1,000th episode. Can you believe it? 1,000th episode. And our lead sponsor is Highmark. I'm mentioning them right now because guess what? This is live from Highmark. That's where I am. In this nice studio that they have me using. And this company has been so awesome to me for 30 years. As you recall, that's really how I got started when I went to the CEO at that time, Bill Lowry, who has since passed away, and said, hey, Bill, would you bring on board 6 subcontractors and keep them? For 3 years. And it only took him one day to say yes, and that was only 5 years after the ADA was signed. And may I tell you, that would be hard press today. It's hard, hard enough to get people hired at all with disabilities, but what Highmark did and continues to Every CEO has stood behind me, everyone. So thank you, Highmark. It's such a great pleasure to be here today. And to all of my friends around the world, we now have over 70 countries with listeners from Japan to Brazil to South Korea to Panama You know, what can I say other than thank you, thank you, thank you. And remember, I always tell this one person in Saudi Arabia, one person, one can make a difference. One, just like I did. One person. But thank you all. Richard Roberts, I know you're back in the United States. Richard is with the US State Department and has recently retired. And he was with me in Brazil and South Korea, and he is just the most awesome person and friend. So shout out to you and to my friend in, yeah, South Korea, Gangyong Cho. Thank you so much, Gangyong. You are such a wonderful friend. And really to everyone I've met. When I've traveled with the U.S. State Department. So thank you all for listening. And here it goes, special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. Yoshiko, I will not forget you. And Yoshiko, thank you for supporting the Bender Leadership Academy. You are just so great. And, you know, you are constantly honoring your late husband, Justin Dart Jr. So lead on, lead on, Yoshiko. And I know you're shouting that back to me from your room. So thank you. I love you. And speaking of I love you, I love my guest today. Love him. Love him. Jonathan Lovitz, the senior vice president of campaigns and communications at the Human Rights Campaign. I met several years ago. What a blessing to know him. He is part of my family. To me, he will always be part of my family. And welcome to the show, Jonathan. It's a blessing to know you.

Oh, right back at you, Joyce. It is great to be with you once again. And as the Golden Girls say, thanks for being a friend. Uh, you are not just a great ally to the LGBT community, but obviously your leadership disability rights and inclusion around the country is second to none. And I'm so proud to be your friend in life and in the fight. So thank you for having me once again.

Al, it is my pleasure. Yes, we are in the fight. And remember that, everyone. Remember intersectionality. Yes, there are people from the LGBTQ community that also have disabilities. We don't discriminate when you have a disability. So we are all in the fight together. Um, Jonathan, what happens is I have people internationally, and really sometimes right here in the United States, but they get in touch with me and say, oh, I love that show, I wish I knew more about that person. So now for the past couple years, I have everyone tell their story. And so let's start with your story and how it has continued in so many great ways. So where you grew up, went to school, some of your first career roles, and don't forget Broadway. Because if you look up Jonathan and it talks about him— politician, advocate, actor— actor is one of the things listed. So Jonathan, let's, let's hear your story.

Oh, Joyce, where were you when I needed an agent to help get me work? You're the best hype man out there in the business. I, I, I, I am career, uh, doing nothing but fighting for the communities I love. And I apologize in advance for any background noise, but I'm at Penn Station, uh, in the midst of, of exactly what my job entails these days, which is going anywhere and everywhere across the country to work on inclusion for all people, including people with disabilities. So I am thrilled to be back with you again. My career started, you know, so humbly. As you mentioned, I was an actor.

I was— And Jonathan, one of the things I'm sorry I wanted to ask you, where did you grow up?

Oh yes. So I was born in South Jersey, grew up in South Florida, which is essentially just a borough of of New York and spent my summers on the Jersey Shore where I was able to go see some great theater both in Jersey and in New York City. Inspired me along my journey to find my own voice, first to go into performing, but then to go into advocacy. And, you know, I feel like the luckiest man in the world that my job is to travel the country and really the world and say all people deserve equal opportunity and equal access. And we, as Paul Wellstone said, all do better when we all do better. And what an incredible way to make a life.

Yeah, I mean, that's what I, I mean, we all do better when we are together because, you know, uh, what— you can't be isolated. When people call me right now and they say, Joyce, what are you gonna do? I say, what am I gonna do? What you should do— move forward, keep moving, and communicate and talk to one another.

Because, uh, I, I have spent most of my career in the advocacy space, but as you mentioned And I am so sorry, Jonathan.

We are having a really hard time hearing you. So I don't know if you can move to some other location at Penn Station, but everyone is missing your beautiful story and your voice. So I don't know if there's some other place you can move because we're having a hard time hearing you. It's all getting garbled and cut off.

Joyce, can you hear me okay? I'm so sorry that I dropped for a second, but I'm here with you.

I hear you now. Yes, I hear— I, yeah, I hear you now very clearly.

The magic of live media.

Yes, yes, I hear you now. We lost you when you were saying about, uh, you know, where you went to school, and you said you grew up in New Jersey and you went a lot to the theater. Um, and is that what caused you to be interested in being in theater?

Yeah, you know, I was one of those lucky kids that grew up with the arts all around me, thanks to my family. And because of that, I discovered that, hey, maybe using your voice for something is a great way to make a living. And for me, for a long time, I said, you know, I thought that was just on stage in the theater playing a part. But then I realized all of those skills translate to an advocacy career. You know, whether I'm trying to get you to believe I'm, you know, one of the cats for 3 powers, or I want you to get out and go vote and lobby your congressman. It's the same skill set. So I'm so grateful that my life began in the arts.

Yes, and I, I believe the arts are so important. Uh, even, you know, I tell high school students with disabilities, it's part of you seeing the whole world. It's part of opening you up, uh, to other things. So yes, I agree with you. Well, you really, uh, were very blessed to be appointed by President Biden at the Department of Commerce during the Biden-Harris administration. Tell us about that.

I mean, one of the greatest gifts of my life. Service is, I think, the greatest thing anyone can be a part of, and I encourage every listener out there, whether it's filling out a postcard and emailing your congressman to running for office or seeking an appointment in your state or federal offices, you and no one but you has the power to make change. And so when I was offered the appointment by the President to come join the Commerce Department and work for Secretary Raimondo in making our economy work for all people, I couldn't say no. It was an absolute dream come true. And especially as, you know, a fan of the West Wing and great political television, I was thrilled that that was becoming my everyday life and to have worked for an administration that values diversity and that, as the president always said, people are policy, that the kinds of people you put into roles dictate the kind of policy you stand for. And under President Biden and Vice President Harris, you know, that meant disability, that meant LGBTQ, that meant all people were seen and welcome and that their their points of view, their lived experiences informed a better policy for all Americans.

Yes, I love President Biden. He took a selfie with me and he took this— he did the selfie at the White House, but I've known him, you know, for a long time and he is just the most wonderful person, as is Vice President Harris. So what— isn't it amazing to go into the White House, Jonathan?

It takes your breath away. I don't care how jaded you are. I don't care what political affiliation you are. To step into that place where you know the men and women who have stood there before have changed the world is an unbelievable thing to know that you're a part of. And for me, you know, especially as an LGBT employee, as an employee of the federal government with a disability, I felt an extra special sense of pride that I was able to bring not only my whole self to my work and to make sure that everything I was working on in terms of economic growth for communities included disability and LGBT communities, but also that we were thinking about accessibility and that every time the president wanted to make an address, not only was it available in ASL as well as transcription as well as TTD, You know, we were thinking about making sure that every single bit of growth in America reached every American, and that includes queer people, people with disabilities, and everyone in between. And, you know, I know we'll get back to that again as a country because, again, when we all do better, we all do better. And if any one of us is left behind, then all of us lose. And that was one of the real joys of working for President Biden was that every single thing that we did was equity be driven. How can we make sure that grants for things like microchips and internet access and small business growth reach every single American and not just those with the most access to be able to find it?

Well, it is such a pleasure to have you on this month as we celebrate Pride Month. Um, and you work at a very powerful, uh, organization. So why don't you tell our listeners about the Human Rights Campaign, HRC, and your role at HRC?

Oh, thank you, Joyce. Um, you know, HRC, the Human Rights Campaign, is the nation's largest LGBTQ+ advocacy organization. We are focused on 4 things with everything that we have, and that is schools and workplaces, policy and politics. If we can influence those, we can influence the outcome of every person in America. And our goal is to make sure that every workplace, every school, every political, uh, party, and every policy that goes forth is inclusive of all of our families and all of the rich diversity that makes America so great now and always. And it is the honor of a lifetime to go from the Biden administration directly into this organization that is doing so much for our communities on the ground all over the United States and in coalition with great partners who are also thinking about disability rights and women's rights and Black equity and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Et cetera, because as we know, if they're coming for any one of us on a Monday, they're coming for the rest of us on a Tuesday. So because we're in this together, it has never been more important that we lift up each other's voices and that HRC continues to be the national leader on LGBTQ advancement. And we couldn't do it without partners like you and the others in this space, Joyce. I hope you know how much we appreciate your allyship and that You know, there has always been, as you said, an undercurrent of connection between the disability and LGBTQ+ community because we have to succeed together or they're just going to pick us apart. And we are so much stronger both as an advocacy force and as a constituency. You know, we are taxpayers, we are job creators, we are business owners, we are all the things that power the greatness of our country. And so it's It's just a matter of fairness, to use our biggest opposition's language. It is just a matter of doing things the fair way that we are included in every opportunity, as you know better than anyone.

Yes. And by the way, before we talk more about what you do, what is the website at HRC?

Oh, thank you for asking. HRC, the Human Rights Campaign, is at hrc.org. HRC.org. And yes, we are a national organization, but we are deeply invested in the grassroots organizing in your hometown. Fine. Go on our website, HRC.org, and find a connection to your local community. We have regional programs and regional partnerships all over America because, again, this is not a fight that's going to be won in Washington or New York or San Francisco. But this is going to be a fight that is won in Des Moines and Birmingham and Lubbock, Texas, where the people furthest from the access to resources are given the fair shot that they deserve to have the best life possible. Yeah. Yeah.

No, it's—

No, go ahead. No, no. And, you know, folks are always asking right now, especially in this moment that feels so fraught and like so many of our communities are under attack at the same time, how do I get involved? The one thing you have to do is stop doom scrolling and find a way to get in the fight. And it can be as simple as writing a postcard to your legislator or getting out in the march and joining us on Main Street or running for office, for goodness sake. There is, you know, the one thing none of us get to do is sit the fight out. And that is, I think, the most important message both HRC and our partners in disability spaces and others are trying to say is None of us are going to succeed if any of us sit the fight out because we all have skin in the game. And it's one of the things that I love most about my work is getting to collaborate across communities with people like you, Joyce Bender, and leaders in so many diverse communities who realize it is all or nothing. And that, that whole metaphor of a rising tide lifting all boats only works if our boats are tied together. And committed to one outcome, which is equal opportunity for everybody. So again, I couldn't be happier to be here and again, to work with people like you and so many leaders throughout the country who believe in a more is more mentality. That's how we get to a nation that really is equal justice under law, like it says on the roof of the Supreme Court.

And if someone is listening to the show right now and they want to make a donation, what do they do?

Well, we would appreciate it tremendously because like so many organizations, we are driven by the people. Uh, you know, it is the $5, the $10, the $20 monthly donation that makes all the difference in the world and our ability to fight for you and your families. So at hrc.org, you can find a donate button. You can attend one of our events around the country. You can attend one of our gala dinners, which happen in dozens of cities across America. And you can add your own spin to the work that we're doing by creating a campaign that gives back to HRC and other organizations that matter to you. I think the real key to success in advocacy is making it personal. You've gotta have a reason to swing your legs over the bed or get up off the couch and get involved in the fight. And that usually means because you're fighting for someone you love, someone that you care about, someone that you know, uh, because they need you to be their voice in this fight right now. So every dollar makes a difference and every bit of action you take moves the entire community forward. So never feel like one person cannot make a difference, 'cause like you said at the top of the show, Joyce Bender, one of my favorite quotes from President John F. Kennedy is, "Every person can make a difference— one person can make a difference and everyone should try." And I think that is the ethos that undergirds what all of us do collectively in our work, is that every single individual has a role to play in the growth of all of our communities.

Yeah, right. I agree 100%. Jonathan Bender, and once again, that's hrc.org. Org if you want to make a donation today. And, and you know what, I like what Jonathan said about no matter what the amount, because let me tell you, all those amounts add up. So no matter what the amount, you should take time to make that donation. And if you are someone that is being bullied or excluded dealing with terrible, terrible discrimination, you need to make that donation because you have help. But, you know, help can't help if they don't have money. This is what I tell people all the time. You know, a not-for-profit is like a for-profit in that if you don't have money, you're not going to operate. So, you know, make that donation. And Jonathan, tell us what your role is and also about speaking, you know, do you speak at different events? Do you encourage people to have events? You know, what exactly do you do when you're traveling to all of these cities?

Well, thanks for asking about that because it really is the thrill of a lifetime to get to travel this country and put a spotlight on you, the people, the advocates across the country who are doing such tremendous work and who power our mission at HRC and across our partner networks to do better for everyone. My job in the newly created role of SVP of Campaigns and Communications is to tell the stories of Americans taking advantage of the opportunities and resources out there to both overcome adversity and to change the narrative that success looks like any specific old-style role model or that opportunity only happens for certain types of people. Being able to turn a spotlight on those who have done it, who have overcome the odds and have succeeded, is a way to show everybody that anything is possible. And especially in the internet age, everyone that you've ever wanted to work with, collaborate with, do, do the great action with is one email away. So So, you know, my biggest advice to especially young people out there who are looking to get involved in advocacy and wonder, can one person make a difference? Yes, absolutely, because you asked to be a part of the change. You know, and I say this to my staff at the HRC and to my colleagues across the federal government and everywhere I've ever worked, you do not get 100% of the things you do not ask for. Go up to your boss, go up to the organizational leader and say, I have an idea, I want to help, can we do this? And they'll be thrilled to hear from you. You know, the movement is built on those who show up. So if you want to see change and you're not seeing enough of it from your elected officials, from your nonprofits that you support, and you think they could be doing more, Well, you are the reason we can be doing more. Don't wait for somebody else to change the world. The power is in your hands to do it. And that is one of my favorite things about this job is traveling the country and telling people, you have no idea how powerful you are, that your voice, your tweet, your whatever you, however you define your level of activism, It makes a difference. Josh Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania, who's a dear friend and a mentor, always says, you know, one of the great traditions from Judaism is that the Talmud tells us no one is expected to complete the task, but no one is allowed to skip it altogether. And I think that's exactly how I look at the world of advocacy. I don't need any one person to change the world., but I do need every person to give what they can to make a difference.

Right. Because as you said before, don't wait until it's you. And I just want to say about that, you can't wait. You know, we got to fight the fight right now. So you don't want to be that person that, you know, from the LGBTQ community or ally or parent, whatever you are, that things bad happen and you say, oh, I wish we had done— yeah, you can do something. You can do something by supporting HRC right now. And Jonathan, do you speak at events? Could people contact you to speak at an event?

I would love that so much. Please reach out to me. I'm across social media at @JDlovitz. That's J-D-L-O-V-I-T-Z. I'm on LinkedIn. You can find my email on the HRC website. Anywhere you want to make a difference, we'll show up and help you do it. So please reach out. And, you know, the most important thing, it's not about having me or some other elected official there as your speaker. It's about you and your story. You know, what's happening in Washington, D.C. doesn't matter at all to the people just trying to get by in Des Moines, in Lubbock, Texas, in Kansas City. They have their own needs and their own issues that we need to be putting front and center, but we don't know about it unless you tell us your story. And we want to hear from the moms and dads and the teachers and the students and the doctors and the patients and everyone in between that is affected by policy change. Because if it's just coming from one point of view, That's the only voice out there. So we need as many points of view as possible to help people understand that policy succeeds when all people benefit from it. If anyone's left out, it's not a fully baked policy. So be loud, be vocal, share your story, even if it's one person that sees it and acknowledges it and shares it. That is one life that you could have changed, possibly even saved, who's then going to go on to do great things simply by being the best of themselves.

And, you know, which I agree with everything you've said, Jonathan, but the Bender Leadership Academy— and I started in Delaware. I still go back to Delaware to do this class, but I then started doing it at companies in Pittsburgh, one of which, of course, is Highmark. And I still do that class at Highmark. But I am telling you this because these high school students from the LGBTQ community, there is this intersection with mental health. That's why we have the Mary Brocker Mental Health Initiative. And, and it's not shocking because, you know, I hear story after story about, uh, family members that, you know, have sort of excommunicated their child when they came out that they were gay, um, and just bullying and violence. You know, some people from the community, they're afraid to go to certain areas, uh, in the United States. So, you know, we have— when you're supporting HRC, you're also supporting children. You're supporting young people that need help. And Jonathan, do you know what I mean? You see a lot of people— Evan was talking about that last week on the show, the crossover between mental health and, uh, LGBTQ, even for a lot of our people in office. Do you see that also?

Oh, absolutely. And I'm so grateful for the work Victory Fund and others are doing to address mental health among LGBTQ professionals, elected officials, you name it. Because, you know, we are constantly redefining ourselves. We are coming out to people every day about, you know, not just our identities, but our values. And that is often met with resistance, which can often take its toll on you. Your mental health than your success. And so helping people understand that taking care of yourself is the most important way for you to be able to take care of other people. And particularly advocates and those who have, you know, a big heart and passion for supporting communities like in the disability and LGBTQ space, they need to be focused on taking care of themselves and the people around them as much as they are taking care of others. You know, I love the metaphor of you, you can't You can't fill someone else's cup if yours is empty. And I think that is so true of people who care passionately about diversity, that our work is defined by how much we take care of others, sometimes at the expense of ourselves. And we are only good to other people if we are in a good place. So do take that time, take that care, invest in the organizations that are looking out for you. Of it. For example, you know, just this week we saw that the, the White House is zeroing out the budget for the Trevor Project, which helps keep hundreds of thousands of LGBTQ youth from committing suicide every year simply because they're coming to terms with who they are and who they love. Uh, and that has a ripple effect because one of those incredible young people that we lose could have been the next great genetic scientist who saves the world from disease or world leader who brings peace to the region who needs it most. And all that they needed to still be here in the fight was just a little bit of love and understanding. So the more that we can invest in one another's health, you know, I even see this among my staff who are dealing with constant onslaughts to the LGBTQ community every single day. That, you know, you have to take a break. You've got to zoom out and look at how this is affecting you and your partners and your families because you're not going to be any good to the people who need you most if you yourself are suffering and not finding the help for it. And in the internet age, support is a click away, you know, and, and Bender Consulting is one of the many great partners out there who are helping people directly connect with support and guidance and best practices to do better and live better so that we can do better and live better for others. So I'm so grateful for the work that you're doing, Joyce, and making sure that people are self-aware of their own mental health journeys, but also how that translates into physical health. I mean, many of us on the front lines of advocacy like you, Joyce, are We are traveling nonstop. We are going anywhere the movement calls us to go. But that takes a toll on us physically, mentally, on our families. There is a cost to being in the fight. And sometimes you have to take a pause to make sure that your, you know, account is topped up so that you can pay that cost and not take away from your own sense of self. Because it is only when all of you comes to the fight that we succeed. So take good care, lean on one another, be of service to one another. The thing I ask my staff more than anything else, and I'm sure they're getting sick of hearing it, is, "How can I help?" And if I can ask, you know, my fellow Americans to ask one question above any other, it is, "How can I help you?" because if we come to each other from that place, we're unstoppable because we will always be looking out for one another and ourselves so that we can all do better.

And if you say that, that you want to help, mean it, do it. Don't just say it.

Yes, absolutely.

Because when Mary died, you know, many people, what can I do for you? How can I help you? But, you know, then after, if those people don't, it's just so, so disappointing, as it would be to any advocate that's fighting the fight. And, you know, you— Jonathan, what's that metaphor again about the empty cup?

Oh, you can't You can't pour water into a thirsty friend's cup if yours is empty.

Yeah, that is so good. Yeah. So anyway, I wanted to ask you, you were talking about the Trevor Project, you know, being eliminated from the budget. I saw on the news something about the hotline for young people from the LGBTQ community, the suicide hotline that is not being funded. Is that true?

Yes, that's exactly what we're talking about here. Um, you know, not only is it a direct attack on LGBTQ youth, it's also a signal that their lives are less valuable than others, and that is simply not the case. Uh, The Trevor Project, like HRC's work in schools and community groups, is focused on making sure that everyone understands that their life is valuable and that they have purpose and meaning and belonging. And we cannot be a full society if they don't believe that they have a place in it. So while the government may be underfunding these critical lifelines, you the people can get involved supporting the Trevor Project, supporting HRC, supporting disability rights. DisabilityIn and all of the other networks that are out there to make sure resources reach the people who need them most. You know, the call to action here, Joyce, is not— is even less about funding. And while I agree that it's totally important, it's about being a champion for these causes. We only succeed when we're talking about this to the people who don't know our spaces. We can preach to the choir all day long, and all that's going to do is get us a beautiful beautifully well-rehearsed choir. We need to convince our family, our distant friends, our colleagues that maybe don't understand why this work is so important to realize that their lives are better when our lives are given dignity and opportunity. So when you care about a cause, don't keep it to yourself. Put it on Facebook, put it on LinkedIn, Wear it on your sleeves, put the bumper sticker on your car, tell people that this matters. Because right now the most valuable currency in the market is attention. And if you can help draw attention to a cause, you can change the world.

Yes, this is what I tell people with disabilities all the time. You have to get out there, you have to talk about Hey, we have double the unemployment rate. You know, 70% of us are not in the workplace. Tell other business people, you know, impact other business leaders. Tell them why they should hire people with disabilities. Don't cower. You've got to get out there. You've got to move forward, and you have to communicate. You know, I may call Jonathan and say, "Jonathan, there's this huge event in this city." You've got to get HRC there. Oh, it's so awesome. Jonathan may call me and say, hey Joyce, this company would hire people with disabilities. But if we don't all communicate, we won't know what's going on. We must all communicate because this is serious what we're talking about. Now Jonathan, you were talking about, I like that phrase you have, dooms scrolling. I love that, right? But what I wanted to ask you is, how do you encourage people, uh, with, for example, the recent Supreme Court ruling? You know, what, what do you tell people when, when they come to you and they're just so, like, downtrodden? What, what do you do?

I remind them that Progress was never made by someone who sits on the couch. Progress was made by those who said, "I will not accept this and I demand better for me, for my community, for the people I love." And that is the bottom line of activism, is finding a way that it touches you and your life because that will keep you in the fight as long as possible. So I think about, you know, as an LGBTQ advocate, as someone with a disability, as someone who has worked shoulder to shoulder with women's groups and African American groups and Hispanic groups, you name it, that the most important lesson I've always taken from the fight is it doesn't have to happen to you for you to give a damn. Because for the grace of God, you were born some way. And just because you do not fit into a specific community does not mean that you do not have stake in their outcome. So, you know, you are— we talk a lot in the diversity space about privilege, which can sound so off-putting, like that means you are rich, you are successful, you are unaffected. All privilege means is a particular issue does not directly affect you. Me. But you— the real win in that opportunity is to say, and because it doesn't, and it could, I have a responsibility to say something, do something, donate, get involved. So it doesn't have to just be the fight for your community. You can find a reason to be involved in everybody else's fight because it touches your own life, and because is you might just have a kid someday who has a disability or is queer or is intersectional in some way. So just because it doesn't affect you today doesn't mean the work doesn't matter tomorrow. And that is why all of us have skin in the game in each other's fights. And it is one of the reasons why I've loved working so much in the LGBTQ space for the last 15 years is we are women, We are people of color, we have disabilities, we are veterans. There is no constituency out there where LGBTQ people don't intersect. And so our issues are theirs and their issues become ours in a way that few communities have. And certainly you in the disability movement have always recognized that disability does not see race, gender, orientation, you name it. So we are in this together. And like I said, just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean you're absolved from the fight. If anything, your existence being not affected by some of these policy changes, Supreme Court decisions, et cetera, is exactly why you have the— you have an impetus to be in this fight. You know, if you've never wondered, can I hold my partner's hand on the street? Can I access this building in my wheelchair? If you've never thought about that, then you have an obligation to those who do every single day because parts of their fight have made your life better. Curb cuts on the street, the accessibility of having closed captioning on your television. I don't need to be affected by those things, by the disabilities that created those changes to know that I'm directly benefiting. From them. And that is true across so many communities. So my advice to everyone is to zoom out a little and realize that if you hear about some crazy inequity out there, that might very well touch someone you care about who has never been brave enough to vocalize it. So you be their voice. You be their champion. You be the person who brings a spotlight to the issue no one in your immediate community realizes directly touches people you care about.

Yes, that is so true. And don't wait. You know, remember what I said at the beginning? Yeah, move forward. Okay, if you don't move forward and you just sit there and you're depressed thinking about all this, it's going to get worse for you. It will get worse, but it can change. It can change for the better, and it will, as Jonathan said. If we the people get out there and make a difference the way Jonathan is, like with what he's doing. And what I love about Jonathan is, you know, he's not getting on here, oh no, woe is me. He's getting on here and he is very positive about what's happening, what can happen. So, and that's what you have to do. You have to move forward and you have to get other people and you have to do something now. You know, someone said to me, oh, hey, there's midterms are going to be coming in 2 years. We'll see what happens. And I said, well, if you want to see what happens, you need to be an advocate now, not 2 years from now. It's too late. You have to start now. And the same thing if you're worried, oh, what's going to happen to us, whether you're from the LGBTQ community LGBTQ+ community, disability, women, African American, Latina, no matter what it is, speak up. Jonathan, you know Tony Coelho very well, and Tony, you know, he taught me a saying. I say it all the time, and that is, Joyce, when you get a chance to take the podium, speak up. And I do, and you should. And you have to remember, you can have like a little event at your house, you know, coffee, breakfast, you know, no matter what it is, you talk about this, you get other people. Hey, you get to be like how it was in history books when you, you know, read about these great civil rights leaders. Well, we need them right now. We need them right now.

Yes.

Yeah, and Jonathan, I find you to be just so awesome in so many ways. But as we're talking, you know, there are youth with disabilities, as I said before, that are also part of the LGBTQ+ community, you know, where there's suicidal ideation and so many problems. And As we were talking, I'm wondering, don't you think it would help to be part of the group? I mean, don't you think it would be part like, you know, getting involved, whether it's with HRC or— in other words, you're not alone. But it's like me with epilepsy. I would go speak at an event and there were all these young people and they were so ashamed they had epilepsy until they got there and met all these other kids. Right. With epilepsy. I mean, what do you think about that?

I think you're absolutely right, Joyce Bender. You know, the key to finding your community is finding your community. And in the digital age, it's never been easier to look for disability meetups, LGBT meetups, diversity meetups, political meetups of any kind where you live. You know, all politics are local. If you want to see some tremendous change for people with disabilities, for queer people, for any other community, it is going to start with your mayor. It is going to start with your state representative because eventually state policies become national policies. So you really have both a choice, a chance to make change, and an obligation to make that change by getting involved where you are. Look, the world doesn't need any more advocates from New York or Washington, D.C. or San Francisco or any of those places. The world needs more advocates from your tiny hometown who are telling your story of what it's like to be able to go to work or not, or get married or not, or participate fully in our community or not. As people realize that that the world is not built for all of us, the more they realize it should be. So tell your story, especially in the disability community, and especially if it's an invisible disability. Help people understand what a day in your life is like. Go on social media, tell that story through a video. Nothing works better than video. And now that all of us have smartphones, each one of us has, you know, more power in our hands than Apollo 11 had in their entire capsule. So tell the story of why you have overcome the odds and what just a little bit of change in the system can do for people like you and for the disabled, the queer, the diverse person in all of our lives that we never realize had the same or had issues that we don't have. We change hearts and minds by making things personal. I'm thinking I was just here in New York City with Jim Obergefell, the plaintiff from the marriage equality case. And we're talking about 10 years to the day since marriage equality became the law of the land. It is now under attack again in state legislatures. Communities across the country are terrified about a repeal of of LGBTQ rights. And we have to get back to basics. The way we won marriage equality was helping people understand we're not some special group. We're not some group of strangers you never met. We are your family. We are your kids' school teacher. We are your neighbor. We are your fellow American. And if you believe in this country and you believe, like the Supreme Court says over its doors, that we deserve equal justice under law, you better be willing to talk about that openly to other people. Otherwise, you're complicit in saying, "Well, don't you have enough?" And quite frankly, no, we do not. And at any given point in our history, our rights that we have fought so hard for can be taken away from people who think of us as an abstraction and not as their fellow citizens. Together. So speak to one another as fellow people, as humans. As you know, we're looking at this absolutely devastating attack on transgender kids all over America, and the most important thing we can tell people is these are the same kids that you have that fall down and scrape their knees and are worried about their report cards and have their date for prom and are dealing with the same basic Growing up in America issues as anyone else. They're also struggling with being accepted for who they are everywhere. So that is why you and I have such an obligation to be as vocal as we possibly can. And as you said, if there is a podium, grab that mic and take it. And if there is no podium, do what Shirley Chisholm always said, grab that folding chair and pull it up to the table. Don't wait to be invited. If you see an injustice out there, call it out, because most people who are privileged enough to not realize there is an issue affecting others out there have no idea that they are also instrumental in changing things for the better for everyone else.

So in agreement. Um, well, Jonathan, we've come to the end of the show, um, but I have to ask one question. If you can answer this one question quickly, who is your role model?

Well, Joyce Bender, uh, is everybody's role model, but you know, I have to give a shout out to two people who unfortunately are no longer with us just in the last few years, uh, on the LGBTQ side. It's David Mixner, who was a champion of champions, who invested and inspired so many young LGBTQ advocates, including me, to find our voice and use it. Otherwise, what do we have it for? And the other is my dear friend Candace Waterman, who passed far too early due to cancer and who instilled in me a quote that she says to so many people, and I hear in my head anytime I think think, oh, I've done enough. Candace always said, we didn't come this far to come this far. And I hear that voice every single day reminding me there's always one more thing to do. There's one more community to help. There's one more group out there that doesn't have a champion. So when you feel like you yourself can't make a difference as one individual person, Yes, you can. And in fact, you have an obligation to make that difference because if not for you, then who? So David and Candace are my heroes, and I include you in there, Joyce, because you have taken to every media out there to tell people that they have a role to play in making things better. And I thank you tremendously for that.

Well, Jonathan, we thank you too. And I I thank you so much for being with us today. And I know you and hopefully all my listeners are going to love this quote. I love this quote. You don't have to be gay to be a supporter. You just have to be human. Daniel Radcliffe. Oh, amen. How true is that? Well, this is Joyce Bender. America's Voice, Where Disability Matters, at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you all next week as we start off Disability Pride Month. And in the words of Mary Brooker, when you go out today, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.