Joyce's Honored Guest, Senator, Tom Harkin-Don't Miss This!!!

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, happy Disability Pride Month as we are celebrating. Yes, the 31st anniversary of the signing of the ADA. So amazing, isn't it? Although, as you'll hear in a little bit, we've got a lot of work to do. I want to have a special shout out first to my close friend Yoshiko Dart. Everyone knows I do this on every show, but that's because we've got to keep that spirit of Justin Dart alive, and oh, Yoshiko, you're going to love this show today. And a special shout out to all my friends around the world, all the 17 countries that listen to this show, to Richard Roberts in Okinawa, to Gangyung in South Korea, to Veniamin in Kazakhstan, and Cheryl Harris in Tunisia, and Ambassador Norland, who is in Libya. Listen, You are all awesome, all with the State Department, all friends of mine fighting the fight. And thank you, Highmark, for being the sponsor of this show. Now, now I have to tell you this first. I am like so beside myself because of my guest today. I can barely talk. That is not good when I'm the host, but I, I am, I am, I can't even tell you. I have no words to tell you. How excited I have been knowing this show was coming. And for all of my disability rights friends everywhere I know, including, uh, Masamami all the way to Japan, wait till you hear, wait till you hear, wait till you hear that I have former U.S. Senator— to me, stop it— U.S. Senator Tom Harkin. U.S. Senator Tom Harkin, my friend, I'm so blessed to know. It is such an honor to have you on the show again as we celebrate ADA 31. You know everyone in the disability community loves you so much. Senator, welcome to the show.

Well, Joyce, I can't tell you how much I've missed you and miss seeing you. Joyce Bender. We worked together for what, 30-some— well, 31 years, I guess we worked together. And I miss seeing you at rallies and parades and demonstrations and all the things that we did together to make the ADA a reality.

Well, I miss you also. But you know, your words and your spirit is with us. We have the Harkin Institute that we'll talk about in a little bit on, but You will always be with all of us. We love you, Senator Harkin. We love you. But today we are talking about the ADA and the signing of the ADA. But I want to start with your story all the way back to Iowa, your story. What gave you the fortitude, Senator Harkin, to believe you could become a senator, a U.S. senator?

Well, as you know, Joyce Bender, I was in the Congress, the House, before, for 10 years. And, uh, and as you know, a House member has to run every 2 years. A senator only has to run every 6 years. And so after I had been in the House for 10 years, and I represented a very conservative Republican district, and I happen to be a very liberal Democrat, uh, it was becoming tougher and tougher. And so I finally figured, up or out, I better run for the Senate. Uh, and there were things I wanted to do that I could do in the Senate that I couldn't do in the House, one of which is the Americans with Disabilities Act. And so I just threw caution to the wind and ran for the U.S. Senate in 1984. It was a big Republican landslide year that year, with Reagan, Ronald Reagan, running for reelection. I was one of only two Democrats in the entire country to defeat two sitting Republican senators. I was one of two. The other was Paul Simon from Illinois. So I was very fortunate to won election that year.

Wow, I never knew that about the— you being only, uh, one of the two. Well, thank God, thank God that you— you know what, you did that one year before I had my accident from epilepsy, and that is amazing. But I'm going to tell you, we are so blessed by God. What would we have done without you? Senator Harkin, we'd be in bad shape. So thank, thank goodness. And throughout the show, I have some messages for you that I want to read. And this first one, uh, is from Corey Axelrod. And Corey is a member of the deaf community, and he sent me a message to tell you, thank you for your transformative work and breaking down barriers for the deaf and hard of hearing community and beyond. He works at Two Axe and Builds. What he does is he works with technology mainly, working with customers to create accessible, inclusive, and equitable experiences for people from the deaf and hard of hearing community. But Two Axe and Builds is a deaf-owned strategic consulting company. And he wanted— me. He's a young man, but he knows what you have done for the deaf community, so I am passing on a message from him.

Well, thank you so much. As you know, what really got me first interested in disability work was the fact that I grew up with an older brother who was deaf, my brother Frank, and I saw how he was discriminated against just because he was deaf. Everything from education to housing to transportation to just living his everyday life. And that just inspired me to say, you know, if I ever got in a position where I could do something about it, I was going to do something about it. Well, fortunately, I was elected to the House and elected to the Senate, as you know, and and I was able to do something about it. So, so it was with the deaf community that I first got my inspiration to work on, on this, on discrimination against all persons with all forms of disability.

Yes, and also I think you had a nephew that had an impact on you also as you went on in your time as a senator. Am I right? You had a nephew, I think it was?

That's correct, Joyce Bender. As I said, my knowledge and my scope of disabilities increased. I first was focused only on deafness and communication disorders, and then my nephew got hurt in an accident and became a severe paraplegic, and then I got to see how Using his wheelchair, he couldn't go a lot of places. He couldn't even go across the street because of curbs. He couldn't do anything. He couldn't go to a restaurant with his family if the doors weren't wide enough, or couldn't go to a bathroom. And so then my, my concept of disability enlarged. And then I met Danny Piper, a young man with Down syndrome.. And then he opened up my eyes as to the discrimination against people with intellectual disabilities. I met, of course, Tony Coelho, again, one of the real champions of disability policy, who had epilepsy and how he'd been discriminated against because of epilepsy. And so developmental disabilities then became a part of my of my knowledge. So as I grew older and as I did more and more work in this area, it became clear to me that we needed a broad civil rights bill that covered all persons with any form of disability, and that's what became the Americans with Disabilities Act.

And such a great Civil Rights Act of freedom for all of us living with disabilities. And I have some other things, but I got to skip up and ask you this. Tell me that day, July 26th, 1990, what do you remember most about that day?

What I remember most is the huge gathering on the White House lawn, the the biggest gathering up until that time and maybe forever since then of people for a signing of a bill. It was a beautiful day. The sun was shining. People were happy. We had all kinds of people there from all walks of life, all forms of disability. And then to hear the wonderful words of President George H.W. Bush when he said, "Let these walls of discrimination come tumbling down." It was something that just even thinking about it now gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Yeah.

Yeah, I can't imagine all those people with disabilities, you know, being out there on the South Lawn of the White House. I'm sure that was just overwhelming to you that day.

It was overwhelming. And to look up and see sitting next to the president Justin Dart— yeah, you mentioned Yoshiko Dart, uh, his widow— and to see Justin Dart, who had done so much, worked so hard to bring this bill to fruition, and to have him sitting there was just It was just a wonderful statement by the President.

Yeah, yeah, that was really— and as you said about let the shameful wall of exclusion finally come tumbling down. Hey, I guess it did in almost every way but employment, Senator Harkin.

Well, we're working on employment. I've been doing that for years now, and that's what I'm working on most since I retired is employment.

I know you are. I know you are. You know, when Senator Harkin, I remember when I saw him giving this speech at Nickel and he was talking about, you know, how he would be retiring. He said, "Retiring, but never leaving you." And I just want everyone to know he has not. He has been fighting for people with disabilities straight on from the day He left his office, left his office, but never left us. Never left us all this time. And by the way, something I forgot to talk about, you did something remarkable when you gave that testimony in the Capitol using sign language. Do you want to tell everyone about that?

Oh, this is very— well, thank you for bringing that up. Yes, when I, as the leader of the bill, as the sponsor of the bill, I was the leader on the Senate floor. And when we brought it up for passage, I gave my speech in sign language. And Joyce, it was very funny because I remember Senator Bob Kerrey from Nebraska was in the chair at the time. And so I started speaking in sign language. Well, the court reporter didn't know what to do. He didn't understand sign language. And certainly the chairman, he didn't know what was going on. And they didn't know what to do because no one knew what I was saying. So I finished my opening remarks in sign language, and then I started speaking in English and said, now Maybe a lot of people know how deaf people feel when you speak and they don't know what you're saying. So, uh, I was— I felt very good about that. And it brings to mind, by the way, Joyce Bender, I just saw a clip yesterday, just the other day, of a woman member of the Knesset in Israel who is deaf and spoke on the Knesset floor in sign language.

Oh my goodness!

I don't know her, but I'm going to find out about her. And she may be the only deaf member of a parliament anywhere in the world. I, I don't know the— I don't know if that's so or not, but to watch her give her speech in sign language on the floor of the Knesset and to make the The other members, the parliamentarians there, they had to have it interpreted for them. That was just— that was so brilliant, so wonderful to see that happen.

I'll tell you what, that is amazing. Oh yeah, we'll have to find out about that, uh, Senator Harkin. I, I wish I could have been there when you did that in sign language. I'm sure like everyone was like, oh my God, what's he doing? I'm sure. I know that I've seen that at the Smithsonian. I went there for, you know, there's a little place you can go in there, and I saw that video, and I was, oh, it was so overwhelming to me. But boy, you really honored your brother Frank there when you did that, and he was able to watch it and understand what I was saying too.

That was, that was kind of nice.

Yeah. So Senator Harkin, now you are at Drake University to house the Harkin Institute. Uh, first, would you would you tell everyone what— why did you choose Drake, and what is the mission of the Harkin Institute?

Well, Drake University is in Des Moines, Iowa, and that's where I'm from, basically. It's the capital city of the state. And Drake University is a small private university in Iowa, and I thought it was the right size and the right location to both house my, all my archives, all my years, 40 years of representing Iowa in the U.S. House and Senate. And they have a great library there. And we have a great archivist in Hope Bibbins there. And So I just thought that was, that was the proper place for it. And it's close to my home. It's only from where I was born and raised, it's literally only about 15 miles.

Wow.

And by the way, Joyce, I, I still live in the house in which I was born.

What? You're kidding me.

No, I'm not. I was born at home. I was not born in a hospital. I was born where my parents were very poor. My mother was an immigrant, and we lived in this small little town outside of Des Moines. And we didn't go to a hospital to have babies, and I'm at home. And so I was born in that house, and I still live in that house.

Unbelievable! Wow, I bet everyone in that neighborhood is like, really thinks they are lucky to have their Senator Harkin right there. You know what? Why does that not surprise me though? Because you're all about, you know, you have soul, you're humble, you care about everyone, you do all this for people with disabilities. You know what? That is right there, that says so much about you.

Well, Well, I love my little town, and in fact, right now I'm talking to you, we have a house in Alexandria, Virginia, which we bought in 1979. I don't move around much, and so we split our time between here and Iowa, but next week I'm headed to Iowa, and I'll be there the whole month of August. And you know, there's something that's really comforting about going back to, it's a small house, it's only a 2-bedroom house, it's a small house, but it's so comforting to go back back to a place where you spent your childhood and where you grew up in a small town. My town only had 150 people in it at that time, and it now has about 300, so it's grown a little bit. But I live in a town of about 300 people now.

Holy— boy, you really do have a small house, you know, only, uh, 2 bedrooms.

I read people are so Yes, it's a nice little house, and we have a nice little piece of property, and my wife has done a lot with gardens and flowers and trees, and it's just such a pleasant little place, you know. Uh, it's, uh, it's less than 1,000 square feet, but what the heck, you don't need anything more than that.

That is— you know what, this is everything about you. I love everything about you, Senator Harkin. I do. I admit it, I'm the head of your fan club. I admit it. But listen, I have another message that came through for you, and it's from Rick Rogers. Please convey my greetings and warm regards to Senator Harkin. Tell him we miss him, we miss his influential presence here in D.C., and greatly appreciate his continuing influential An impactful bridge-building work with the Harkin Institute, Rick Rogers, Managing Director from the Resource Network.

Oh, good for, good for Rick. Well, thank you, Rick. I appreciate that so much.

Yeah, well, people love you.

And Joyce, you asked about the Harkin Institute and why Drake, why I pointed out.

Yep, let's talk.

Now you know why.

Yeah, let's talk about the Institute. What is the Harkin Institute?

Well, it was— our founding principle is this. Our premise is that good public policy is best achieved when policymakers, you know, people that make policy, have access to high-quality information, when the political processes are open and well understood, and citizens are informed and active participants. That's why our institute is not a political institute. It's the Harkin Institute for Public Policy and Citizen Engagement. And that's what I believe in. I believe good policy and making sure citizens are informed and that they are active participants in the process It involves collaboration, communication, and courtesy from and to everyone involved. That's really our basic core value: inclusion, education, respect, accessibility, and opportunity. Those are our core values.

Great core values. What do you do at the Harkin Institute in reference to work for people with disabilities? What do you do?

Well, the first thing we started, Joyce, as you know because you've attended them, we started the annual Harkin Summit on Employment of Persons with Disabilities. And we have it every year, and we bring together the private sector, mainly the private sector, some government, some NGOs, and the broad disability community to discuss and scope out what— not only what is the situation with employment of persons with disabilities, but what can we do? How can we enlarge it? How can we increase the number of persons with disabilities who are engaged in— again, these words mean a lot— Competitive integrated employment. Not substandard, not sub-minimum wage, not make-do type work, but I mean jobs just like everyone else, paid like everyone else, having the same benefits and retirement and everything else just like everyone else. Competitive integrated employment. So we started that in 2015 when I, well actually 2016, I retired in 2015. And now we've had every year those summits. As I said, I know you've been to them. The last one we had virtually last December, and we had over 50 countries and over 500 participants. The year before that, let's see, we were, oh, we were in Paris. That's right. Our, our, our summit in Paris, uh, and this year we'll begin— we'll be back again in Washington. Next year we're going to be in Belfast, Northern Ireland. We're looking forward to taking it after that to South America and then to Southeast Asia. So again, it's an international conference on what we can do to increase employment of persons with disabilities. So that's been our main thrust from the disability sector of our institute. But we do other things also. We get involved in policy on subminimum wage, of course, trying to get rid of that. Other instances of state laws on disability. But the main thing is, as you pointed out even in the beginning, employment, jobs, jobs, jobs.

Yeah, that's right. You know, when you brought up that substandard, the, you know, 14, I still remember because I was at the Senate hearing and said, you know, talked at the Senate hearing that you had about that farm, that turkey farm. The turkey farm, was it in Iowa? Yeah, and you had a big thing, you gave a big speech and you continued forever to give this speech about how people with disabilities, when they're paid at a substandard level, it's like slavery. And my question is, do you think we're going to get rid of this 14c?

My answer is yes, we're going to get rid of it. The, the pressure is building. More and more people understand it is just— it's not right. It's demeaning. It's not right. Uh, people should be paid, uh, for the work they do the same as anyone else. This whole sub 14, as you point out, this whole subminimum wage thing is just a way of getting work done by people with disabilities and they don't have to pay them. It is almost like slave labor. And that turkey farm— and that turkey farm thing, that was so bad because there was a company in Texas that would find persons with disabilities, ship them up to Iowa to work in this turkey processing plant, which a terrible kind of job anyway. They would live in a house like a group home, and they were paid almost nothing. They got no Social Security, they got no retirement, they got no health benefits, they got nothing. It was just about as close to slavery as you can imagine. Well, we finally shut them down. And you know, the good news is that many of those individuals that were working there and who had worked there for years and not got anything. And I, I remember this one man, he'd been working there for over 10 years and he had nothing. He had zero savings, had no money because they would take out of his subminimum wage paycheck to pay for this group home he lived in. Well, he got out. You know what? He went to another city in Iowa, Waterloo, and kind of got involved in— what am I trying to— what's the word I'm trying to think of— landscaping and that, and started his own little small business of taking care of people's lawns and trees and shrubs. And you know what? To this day, he's very active and does well as a small business person. Again, it just shows that— When you treat persons with disabilities just like everyone else and you give them the opportunities, they can do amazing things.

Oh, that is so true. And I frequently ask myself, you know, here we are 31 years after the ADA. Thank God we have your voice still fighting for competitive employment for people with disabilities. But I ask myself, How is it possible that 31 years later, 70% of people with disabilities are still not counted in the workforce? Why is it? Why? Why do people not want to hire people with disabilities? I'm sure you wonder that also, Senator Harkin. Why? Why is this, why is this so hard to make this happen?

It has been the biggest frustration of my life to see this and to try to overcome it. Now again, we're making progress, but not rapidly enough. And so there are some businesses that are doing just great in hiring persons with disabilities. In fact, I just saw a TV show last Sunday night on 60 Minutes. About autism and about companies that now realize that so many people with autism can do jobs better than a non-autistic person. So we're starting to break down some of these barriers, but it's been frustrating, frustratingly slow, and that's why we keep pushing with our summits and everything to get more and more of the private sector to change their human resources hiring to do the things necessary to bring in persons with disabilities. Now I can go into this in depth with you, but I know we're on a radio show and, and you don't want to get into the whole length and breadth of it, but just suffice to say that with very small modifications with just a little bit of outreach and a little bit of perhaps extra effort on the part of a business. If they hire a person with disabilities, they will make more money than if they don't, and we've proven that, Joyce Bender. There was a study done. Just a few years ago, a couple, 3 years ago, that showed they took some companies that hired persons with disabilities and some that didn't that were in the same kind of realm of manufacturing, and they followed them over 5 years, and the companies that hired persons with disabilities had a better bottom line after 5 years than the companies that didn't. When they, again, factored in for everything else. And, you know, it's true, persons with disabilities many times can outperform and outwork a person without a disability, and that is a fact.

Hey, I know it's a fact because I founded Bender in 1995, and we found employment for people with disabilities in computer engineering, mathematics, accounting, IT, procurement, all across the board. And may I tell you, you cannot believe how many— you will believe it— many of these employees have not taken a sick day for years because they are so appreciative to have work. Because to people with disabilities, work is a treasure. That job is a treasure. Because, you know, Senator Harkin, of course, economic sufficiency, having the money, but also dignity, you know, do you know what I mean? I'm sure you agree that you have seen over your life such a difference when someone gains employment.

Of course, of course, and again, you're always thanking me for everything. I should have at the beginning thanked you and Bender Associates for all of the jobs that you have gotten for people with disabilities over the years. It's been fantastic. And again, you are a case in point of showing of how with just a little bit extra effort and push, you can get people with disabilities into these jobs. And 9 times out of 10, maybe 99 times out of 100, they will outperform their coworkers who don't have a disability. And you're so right about them showing up. I always tell the story about my brother Frank. Whom I mentioned earlier, who was deaf, well, he finally got a job he liked in a manufacturing plant. The man who hired him did it just out of the goodness of his heart. But Frank worked there for 10 years. His first 10 years, I was in the military, I was in the Navy. I came home for Christmas. My brother wasn't married, I wasn't either, and we went to a Christmas party for the company. There was about 300-some people employed there. And, uh, and I remember they called my brother up front, and the owner of the company, Mr. Delavan, gave him a gold watch and told everybody that Frank Harkin has been there 10 years, and in 10 years he never missed one day of work and was never late one time in 10 years.

Wow, does it—

that's—

oh, that is so So awesome and not shocking. Oh, I can't imagine what that meant to your brother.

Yes, it was fantastic. And I got to sit there. I was home on leave from the Navy just for Christmas. It was fantastic to see this happen. It was just, uh, it was just wonderful. And of course, Frank, my brother, being a very modest individual, he didn't understand what all the fuss was about. I mean, he thought everybody else should do just like that too.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, there are companies that are listening. For example, the company that stood behind me to get started, Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield, which is now very large, the CEO last year during this pandemic said, Joyce, I'm going to hire 30 people with disabilities from you to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the ADA. Through the pandemic, like in IT, you know, HR, these type of areas, and guess what? They did. But here's what's more remarkable. This year, they're hiring 31 people to celebrate the 31st anniversary of the ADA. Now, keep in mind, Senator Harkin, they already have tons of people working there that they have hired with disabilities over the years. But I am telling you this because the CEO, David Holmberg, wanted me to share. It's more important for all of us to realize it's a hand up, not a handout.

It's so true. My goodness, we'll give David my My pat on the back and my extreme thanks for all that he's doing. That's fantastic. A great example to other companies.

Yes, a great example to other companies. And you know what? And they are a great company. Senator Harkin, when I figure out maybe next year how to get you here to Pittsburgh, I'm gonna take you to meet all those CEOs. Actually, I'm gonna get a whole group of them for you to speak to because The only way we're going to change the workface of America is if they hire people. They— companies have to hire people, and not all in low-level jobs, you know, across the board, just as you said, because, well, you know what, what you said at the beginning, treat people with disabilities the way you treat everyone else. That's really what it is, treating them the same as everyone else. You know, Senator Harkin, when you, when you saw the ADA passed, you know, you mentioned Justin, for example, and Yoshiko. I know there was all this advocacy, grassroots, you know, Bob Kafka, all these people, Judy Heumann, Tony, before. Before it was passed, but I wanted to ask you, when you had so many obstacles, like Tony's told me about many of them, like some businesses, transportation, Greyhound bus, plus the fact that we had, you know, a Republican president, did you think it would become law even with all the obstacles that, you know, you faced?

Well, it was a long slog, but everything just seemed to come together. And, you know, I will say this, that that Republican president was George H.W. Bush. He was for it from the very beginning, and he put the power of the White House behind it. He never wavered. He always gave it his strong support. And I tell you, that helped in getting it past a lot of conservative Republicans who just thought we were going too far and didn't want to do all of this. But with the White House and with the Republican president behind it, boy, it sure helped to get that bill passed. But yeah, were there times when I wondered if we'd get it done? Sure there were. In fact, there were a couple of moments, a couple of times when I thought maybe it was just all gonna fall apart. But there was a moment in time, this would be in 1990, early 1990, when all of the disability groups got together and formed a great coalition, and it was the strength of that unity that really pushed it through. Because I'll be honest with you, Joyce Bender, that there was a time there where we had different disability groups that weren't agreeing with one another. One group wanted to do one thing, one group wanted to do another, and I could understand that. I, I understood that.. But I remember I told these groups one time, you all have to give up just a little bit, maybe here or there, so that we get the broad civil rights bill that covers everyone. And once that happened and they formed that unity, well, then I knew. I knew then we could get it over the finish line.

Yeah, it's funny you would say that. First of all, I tell disability groups, whoever they are, if they start getting mad at each other, I'll tell them, "Hey, don't get mad at them. Look, you've got tons of companies out there that won't hire people with disabilities or want people with disabilities in subminimum wage. You can get mad at them. But the only way we're going to change what's going on is if we could all have unity, you know, the way Justin Dart was able to get everyone united before. And why I'm saying this is, Senator Harkin, I believe you could do that. I believe you could do that, because we need to get everyone together, one voice, fired up, as President Obama used to say, fired up, ready to go, because we need, we need Unity. You know, if everyone is off by themselves somewhere in silos, you know, we don't get anywhere and we don't know what's happening. You know, I know exactly what you mean about before, because I know also Tony had to meet with some groups to get the ADA Amendments— ADA Amendments Act passed. Some of the groups were, you know, opposition about that also.

Yes. Yes.

But thank God, we were able to get that done also. And you said about President Bush, you know, Doro Bush is on my advisory board, and she always tells me that right up until the day President Bush passed away, that if you ask him what was the most important thing to him in his life, he said the Americans with Disabilities Act?

You know, I'm proud of the fact that there's an entity in Florida— or not Florida, in Texas— that gives out the George Herbert Walker Bush Award to leading public servants and things like that for different things. Well, the first person to receive it was President Bush, George H.W. Bush. And I think that would have been 1991 or 1992, somewhere in there. The second recipient was me, and I got to go, and I got to go to Houston, Texas, and get this award with President Bush there. Of course, he was out of office at the time, uh, but it was just a very touching moment for me and for the president. And after that, every time we'd have a big anniversary, like the 10th anniversary and the 15th, the 20th, we always kind of got together. We would do something together. Usually it would be like President Bush, Bob Dole, me, Senator Kennedy, to show the bipartisan support that we had for it. And in— see, what year would it be? Be 25 In 2013, there was a 25th anniversary of President Bush's becoming president. It was held at Texas A&M at the Bush Institute. And it was a big gathering of all of the people that had worked for President Bush when he was in the White House, and others. And I'm proud of the fact I was one of only two Democrats invited to this celebration. And President Bush and I got together and reminisced about our work together on the Americans with Disabilities Act. He was a great man. He really was.

Yeah, he was. He was a great man. I just think so highly of him. Hey, I think we've got a caller on the line right now. Are you on the line, Chris?

Yeah, hi, how are you?

I'm good, Christine Griffin, how are you?

I am just fine, and it's so great to hear Senator Harkin's voice.

Hi, Chris.

Hi, how are you?

Well, I'm okay, I'm just doing just fine, and I hope you're the same. That's great.

Yeah, yeah, I'm doing well.

And I just— go ahead.

Excuse me, I was going to say Chris was nominated to EEOC by Senator Edward Kennedy, right, Chris?

Yep, he paved the path for me to get there.

And that was during—

that was actually under the— that was during the Bush administration. I was one of the—

also one of two Democrats —And then you were the Assistant Director over the Office of Personnel Management. And of course, you're a person that uses a wheelchair and you have a disability. I want to tell you, Senator Harkin, when Tom Perez and different people were pushing President Obama about getting that 100,000 people with disabilities hired in 5 years. Chris was the head of all of this at that time, and she worked with our company to create this list where companies across the government could hire people with disabilities, and she worked has always worked hard on employment. So now she has semi-retired, and I said, no, no semi-retired. So now she works with me, works with me at Bender. Oh, fantastic, fantastic.

Yeah, yeah, we're doing a great job finding employment for people with disabilities, and I'm working on executive So we're getting people with disabilities into leadership positions in various organizations across the country, and it's really been a lot of fun. It's great fun working with Joyce, and of course we share this passion of employment for people with disabilities, as I know you do.

Well, you know, Chris, listen, I'm going to ask Joyce— I know we're on the air, but I'm going to ask Joyce, when we're off, would you email me how to get a hold of Chris I think there are some things our institute is doing that we might rely on Chris for some expert advice on.

Absolutely. Sure. Yes, yes, I would be so—

Absolutely, I'd love to work with you again.

Yeah, and well, Chris, you were at the White House, because I was there also, when that executive order was signed. I remember there's a picture and you're sitting back. That's right, yep. President. You're sitting by President Obama. Yeah, when they pass out those— that was a great day. Yes, that was a great day. What happened, Senator Harkin, Chris found out that in the federal government less than 1% of people with disabilities were employed. Less than 1%. And that's when she took this mantle upon herself to increase the employment of people with disabilities. And I would be with her when we would— she would speak across all the agencies telling them, you know, about hiring people with disabilities. And then when she started to work with me, we have one firm caveat: when we meet a company and they say, yes, we'll hire someone with a disability at an executive level, we say, yes, they have to have a disability or we won't work on it.

Yep. Yep, we've lost some customers because we insisted upon that, but that's our only focus is finding jobs for people with disabilities.

Wow, that's fantastic. Yep, yep. Well, I will get you that information, Senator Harkin, And Chris, thank you for taking time to call in.

I just want to thank Senator Harkin for all he's done and all he continues to do for the disability community. Thank you very much, Senator.

Well, thank you, Chris, again for what you've done. It's just nice to know that we still have people like you out there fighting the good fight and pushing to break down these barriers of employment. So thank you for that. Yeah.

All right, thank you. Thanks, Chris. Yeah, yeah, you know who— bye. Guess who introduced me to her when she was at EEOC? Andy Imperato.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah, that's who introduced me because they knew each other, and Chris is also an attorney, uh, or has her law degree. And then as I said, she became friends with of course she already was with Andy, but with Tony and different people, and now she works with me on all these executive search positions, and she is so passionate about employment, just the way you are.

Well, you'll have to get me in touch with her. That's good. All right.

Well, hey, I know we're at the end of the show and I just knew it would go really fast. I knew it. I knew it would go fast because I have one of my favorite people on. And you know, we end every show with a quote and here it is. Every individual with a disability deserves a chance to realize the four great goals of the ADA: Equal opportunity, full participation, independent living, and economic self-sufficiency, said the great Senator Tom Harkin. Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Senator. I love you. We all love you. And I can't wait to see you again soon.

Oh gosh, Joyce, it's just been so nice to be with you. You're right, the hour went too fast. And again, I just miss you. I got to see you. We got to get together again, and I look forward to coming to Pittsburgh if you could work something out sometime. But again, just thank you. Thank you, thank you for everything you're doing, what Bender Associates is doing, all you've done to get gainful employment for persons with disabilities. To me, that's sort of the last the last threshold that we really have to overcome. We're making headway. It's slow, way too slow for you and me, but we got to keep pushing it and more and more businesses.

That's right, Senator Harkin. All right, Senator Harkin, I'll let you go. Love you, and get ready for Pittsburgh. All right, bye-bye.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.