Karen Hanlon: Highmark Health's Commitment to Diverse Workforce

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show today, and hello to Richard Roberts., my buddy in Brazil with the State Department, Gang Yong Cho in South Korea. Really, all of my friends at the State Department, they're so wonderful. So you all know, this is how I end up going around the world to different countries talking about the employment of people with disabilities. So kudos to the U.S. State Department. I mean, you need to know that, that it's because of them that I'm able to do what I do. So, I have to say thank you to the 11 to 15 countries with listeners: Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, Australia, New Zealand. Really, it changes all the time. Finland. But It is just amazing. So, I want to say something to you. If you're one of the listeners in one of those countries, or a country I did not mention, you can make a difference. One person, one person can make a difference. So, when you talk to people that are English-speaking, you make sure that you ask them, are they listening to this show? You can make a difference in the quality of life of other people. So, thank you so much. And of course, my great listeners throughout America, oh my goodness. I love it when I go somewhere and you recognize me because you know my voice. That is awesome when that happens. And also, all of you listeners, all of you, Thank you so much. Yoshiko Dart, a special shout out to you. And you all know why I do that. She is the widow of the late, great Justin Dart Jr., the general behind the ADA, one of the most well-known disability rights leaders. And yet, I know if I would go out and interview people, hey, who's Justin Dart? They would have no idea. So I just want to emphasize how we people with disabilities, we need to have more history at school about disability rights. We need to have more. And Jashica, you can count on me that I will always, always remember that shout out to you. Well, I have to tell you, I was really, am really excited about this show. I think I've told everyone. I've probably told so many people it could be on CNN, but I've told everyone about our guest today, Karen Hanlon, who is the Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer at Highmark Health. And she is also a disability rights advocate, a friend. I just want to tell you listeners, so all you all know, she is the real deal. So this isn't going to be someone that gets on that's so high level and you wonder, yeah, do they really do this? Yes, she really does. She really cares about people with disabilities. And Karen, it is such an honor to have you as a guest today on the show because you are a national champion of freedom, because only through competitive employment can you gain freedom in this country for all Americans with disabilities. You know, many people got in touch with me, of our listeners, excited about this because we've been advertising it. So you, Karen, are becoming known nationally as an executive that is a disability rights champion. So welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce Bender. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure for sure.

Well, Karen, I would like to start with your story because I think I told you this before, but listeners around the world and this country started saying, "Wow, I really like that guest, but I wish I knew more about them." So, I want to start with your story, you know, where you grew up, where you went to school, where you went on to college, and why you chose accounting and finance as your career.

Sure, yeah. So I grew up in western Pennsylvania, which is where I still live today, and, you know, had two sisters, and my mom and dad, you know, both worked, and we had busy, busy lives. I went to college about an hour and a half north of Pittsburgh to a small private school called Grove City College, and I actually Entered college as a math major, came out as an accounting major because frankly, I— this is one of those life lessons on, you know, turn something, make something positive out of your failures. I actually failed my freshman year calculus course, and I thought, well, I guess being a math major isn't going to work out so well if I failed the entrance course.

And so I better— okay, that is very That's hard to believe. That's very hard to believe.

Go ahead. But accounting worked out well for me. So I graduated from Grove City, spent 5 years at KPMG Peat Marwick as an auditor. And while I was at KPMG, one of my clients was a company called Blue Cross of Western Pennsylvania, which was a predecessor company to what is now known as Highmark Health. And so I was the auditor for Blue Cross Blue Cross of Western Pennsylvania, and so I knew a lot of the people there and knew what they did, knew what the mission of the company was. And so when I decided it was time for me to leave KPMG, I came to work for Highmark. And so I joined Highmark in 1997, and I've been here ever since. I joined in the— I joined Highmark in the finance organization and spent much of my career in the finance organization, really doing different things, you know, different accountabilities over that time. But in 2014, became the CFO of the company. And then in 2018, decided to transition from being the CFO to a newly formed role at our parent company of the Chief Operating Officer. And so I've been the Chief Operating Officer at the parent company since that time in 2018.

Wow, do you know— no wonder you know so much about Bender Consulting. You started in 1997 and I started Bender Consulting in 1995. Yeah, true, true.

I remember many, many meetings with you, Joyce, uh, over, over years, you know, even just when I was in the finance organization in different roles. Thinking about, you know, how— what roles we had and how could we work with Bender Consulting in supporting the efforts around employment of people with disabilities.

Well, Karen, you are the very first chief operating officer at Highmark. Female. Well, I mean, the first period, male or female, but Yeah, that is an incredible accomplishment. So how does that feel, and did you ever think that would happen?

No, I mean, you know, I'm definitely not one of those persons that at a young age kind of had my path mapped out and, you know, knew where I wanted to get to and exactly what I wanted to do. Um, for me, you know, I kind of explored things much more real-time as the journey unwound. And, you know, I found different opportunities to step into. And so certainly didn't envision this at any point. But I really had gotten to the point where, you know, after having been the CFO for 4 or 5 years, I thought, you know, I still have a long time to work. And so I feel like I want to do something different. Over the remaining years of my career. And so it was through discussions with our CEO and just talking about where I wanted to head with my career and what I wanted to do that he offered up the option of stepping into the role of Chief Operating Officer and really moving closer to the business. And that's just been a joy. It's been fun. We do great work here at Highmark. We have great people that work for us and that I work with every single day. And, and, and so it's, you know, allowed me to open my thinking to things that I might not have had as much exposure to before. And at the same time, you know, we've been embarking on a really bold strategy around the transformation of healthcare. We have in our portfolio of companies, you know, we are the largest Blue Cross Blue Shield plan in Pennsylvania. We cover Delaware, West Virginia, parts of the New York market. So all in all, we're covering over 6 million people through our Blue Cross Blue Shield plan in multiple states. And we also have in our portfolio of businesses a really large provider system based here in Western Pennsylvania, in addition to a few other diversified businesses that operate nationally. And so, you know, as we embarked on, on the transformation strategy around healthcare, my role afforded me a really, you know, unique opportunity to be at the forefront of that and to be working with all of our business folks and figuring out, you know, what were the steps we needed to take and what were the pieces and parts we needed to put together to be successful. And it's been a fun journey. You know, we're not done. Certainly, when you embark on a goal as big as transforming healthcare, you know, it's not a 5-year deal. It's something that takes a little while. And, you know, so we're still very much on that journey, but it's been fun so far.

Well, you know what I say about you all the time, Karen, is here you are, one of the most powerful female healthcare leaders in the country, And I can say you have no airs about you, you know what I mean? You're just like a down-to-earth kind person, not, wow, look at me, you know, it's all about me. And you know, right, you are not like that. And I tell everyone that, and, uh, that humility that you have, and yet A powerful leader at the same time is what makes you so great. That's what it is. Uh, and thank you to the— even though you failed calculus, I still— I still think you are really a tremendous person. Uh, but Karen, you were talking about what you're doing at Highmark. Let's talk about Highmark, you know, for our listeners not familiar. How large is the corporation? And by the way, Karen, you've been there all this time. Remember, were you on, uh, what street is that that they used to be on? Not Grant Street, or was it Grant Street?

Wood. I think they used to be on Wood Street.

Yeah, yeah. Were you there? Would you have— oh no, when I think about that, when I think about seeing that building, I can still see it in my mind. Wow, from that to Fifth Avenue Place.

What?

Yeah, talk about a transformation. And what I'm getting to is now how large Highmark is. But how about if you talk about that, how large, because you have a huge footprint of hospitals, subsidiaries, and also like how different people ask me about this. How is Highmark structured with, with AHN integrated to Highmark?

Yeah, yeah, happy to talk about it. So, um, Highmark Health is the parent company, and, um, it's about $27 billion a year in revenue. Um, as I mentioned earlier, um, you know, we are the Blue Cross Blue Shield plan that covers all of Pennsylvania. Uh, we cover West Virginia, Delaware, and parts of New York. Um, so just over or 6 million insurance lives. And really those lives, even though they're associated with employers in those 4 states, they sit throughout the nation. You know, individuals sit throughout the nation. We also have Allegheny Health Network, which is our provider system here in Western Pennsylvania. Allegheny Health Network is just under $5 billion in revenue. I want to say we're currently at about 14 hospitals, about 2,000 doctors, a number of ambulatory sites, And, you know, between Highmark and Allegheny Health Network here in Western Pennsylvania, we're doing, you know, very deep work together around that transformation of healthcare goal. At the same time, we also have an ownership interest in the Penn State Health System, which is based in Central Pennsylvania. And we have deep partnerships with providers that sit in some of the other markets. We have a venture with Christiana Healthcare System in in Delaware called CuraSend, where we're really innovating in CuraSend around value-based care and different pieces and parts that will be necessary to fully practice in a value-based way as, as both payer and provider move forward. We also have in our portfolio at Highmark a national dental company called United Concordia, which serves all 50 states. As does our stop-loss company, which is called HM Insurance Group. And then, last but not least, we have a healthcare technology company called NGIN, and NGIN, of course, runs all of our technology for the Highmark Health enterprise, but it also has commercialized the technology and business process offerings around that technology and sells that to other insurance companies. Companies as well. And, you know, so in terms of the structure, the parent company is Highmark Health. Highmark Inc. is the insurance enterprise, and that's where all of our health insurance businesses, as well as United Concordia Dental and the HM Insurance Group business. And then the sister companies to Highmark Inc. are Allegheny Health Network and EnGen, the health tech company. All of those businesses work very much together. There's a lot of overlap in terms of the customer base. But there's also, all of them also work with customers that are outside of the Highmark enterprise and need to make sure that their business offerings are competitive really nationally.

How many people work for Heimwork if you add all of that up?

Yeah, I think, you know, if you add up our contract workers and everything, we're at about 50,000. Wow. Yeah, 44,000 employed and, you know, then a large contingent worker base as well. And so, you know, it's a lot of people every day that we're relying on to deliver on behalf of our customers and, you know, to be unified in the strategy that we have, the mission of the company, and what we're trying to achieve.

So what does that mean? Like, what, what is the size in revenues?

$27 billion in total. Wow.

I'm— I want all of you listeners to understand, when you think about Highmark Don't just think of like, you know, this small organization. They are formidable now. Look how large. Wow. I mean, I knew Highmark when it was Blue Cross of Western Pennsylvania, as Karen was there, and it— unbelievable. Congratulations, Karen.

I mean, thank you.

Wow, your leadership. What's happened?

I think when I I think when I joined Joyce, I think the organization was about $2 billion in revenue total. And again, that's been 20— what is it? 27 years now. But yeah, it's grown a lot since that time. At that time, it was a company that was really centered in Western Pennsylvania. And did not have much business outside of that, maybe a little bit throughout other parts of Pennsylvania, but that was it. And it's grown drastically in that time.

Well, congratulations, because I've seen it, and when you think about it, it's just amazing how large Highmark has become. And I know you're not done, so who knows next year what you'll be telling me as to where you are. That's right. Yeah, and as I've said before, you are phenomenal, brilliant executive business leader who's done so much. As I said, first COO. But sadly, in the United States, you know how many people at your level are doing what you do across the board with all of your leaders? Zero. So, what you're doing is an unbelievable model for everyone listening to this show, and I want to know why, why do you do that, and why do you make specifically competitive employment? I want everyone to know these aren't like all lower-level jobs. Because I'll go to a company, I'll say, hey, you know, would you hire people with disabilities? Oh yeah, we have customer service and call center. That's not what it is. And I'm not at all— hi, Mark. It's all the way to the vice president level, and it is across the board— IT procurement, human resources, accounting. I mean, it's It's really wonderful for people with disabilities. So why, Karen, why do you do this when we can't get other people to do this? Not just me, I'm talking about Tony Coelho, AAPD, you know, we're all fighting this fight. Why, why are you doing it?

First of all, it's just good business, you know. I mean, we're, we're always looking for talent And the diversity in talent is also very important, right? It allows us to make sure that we're bringing different vantage points to the table as we're having discussions about the work that we're doing. And we firmly believe that with that diversity of perspectives, we arrive at better solutions. On behalf of our customers. So I just start with it's good business. And certainly for us, being in the healthcare space, especially the last few years, and we don't see anything on the landscape that are on the horizon that we think will cause us to change. Frankly, we have a shortage of workers in some areas and some domains. We need talent. We need to be tapping into all of the talent pools that are out there and available. And, you know, I think our work with you over time, Joyce Bender, has allowed us to really perfect that model around hiring people with disabilities and setting them up for success and letting them, you know, be their best selves and do great work. And so we've gotten, you know, great results from that. And then, you know, the last thing I would say is it's, in addition to it just being good business for all the reasons I cited, you know, our mission is about creating a remarkable health experience and freeing people to be their best. And certainly the employment of people with disabilities fits squarely into that. You know, you and I have talked about this many, many times. Like, just because somebody doesn't— just because somebody has a disability doesn't mean that they can't do the work. And they want to do the work. They want to be given the opportunity to do their best work and through that to create the best life for themselves and for their family. And we want to be a part of that. And so that's why we do what we do. And as you said, this is not at all just entry-level roles. In fact, the place where we've had the greatest success has been within our information technology group. And oftentimes, you know, work for coders and testers and developers. And, you know, I mean, these are— are very technical roles that require, you know, a background and a skill set that people bring to the table to be successful. And, you know, but we've definitely been the benefactor of the work of people with disabilities that, you know, want to be a part of the permanent workforce. And I think it's You know, it's just been a model that's worked very well for us.

And very well for people with disabilities. As I said, all the way through the management level and vice president and in all different industries. It's so great. And Karen, David, I'll never forget, you know, I'll never forget when I had breakfast with him one time and he looked at me and he said, you know, Joyce, I don't see enough wheelchairs in the lobby.

Like, where—

and where are the service dogs? And, and I even said, wow, if I could get this on film, wouldn't that be great? But it's David that came up with the idea on the 30th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act to say, okay, the 30/30, which Jonathan Capehart from MSNBC is on my show next week, uh, and as I had mentioned to him and will be again, uh, who has done something like that? No one but Highmark. So here we are now. David kept it going and Highmark kept it going and you kept it going. So now, uh, for the 34th anniversary, Highmark is hiring 34 people with disabilities from Bender. And by the way, I don't mean that at 34, Highmark says, that's it, we hired our 34. Right. Every year we have gone past, uh, that number. But, um, he is a treasure, as you are, for people with disabilities, because through him doing all this, it is— it brought employment to so many people. And you're sort of like tied at the hip. I mean, you two are partners. Yeah, partners. Yeah. Uh, what it— what is it like for you to work with David?

Oh, I mean, David is a great leader, um, you know, and I've had the pleasure of working with him for a long time. I mean, when he joined Highmark, he actually joined initially to run our Vision business, which was, you know, actually a set of 3 businesses: Vision Insurance, Vision Retail Stores, and an eyeglass frame manufacturing company. And he— that business was based in San Antonio, Texas, and he lived down there. And I was in finance at the time and, and had the pleasure of, you know, going down to San Antonio and spending time with him to understand, you know, what was going on with that business and what the results were and those sorts of things. And so I got to know him probably better than many other people at the Highmark organization because of that work. And, you know, David became the CEO of our enterprise in 2014 and has just done amazing, incredible work all along in his career, but certainly as CEO. He's just a gracious leader. He is a giving leader. He is the definition of servant leadership. And at the same time, very strategic, very much a focus on the customer and where we need to go with the customer. You know, he had a retail background prior to joining Highmark, and so I think that's allowed him to have, you know, a different view than we have. What others might have. And, you know, as we work together every day, really what he does with his leadership style is make sure that people understand the mission, the vision, the strategy, the goals that we're going for. And then he trusts them to go and do the work and make sure that it gets done. And at the same time, you always know that he's there for support. But, you know, he's just been an amazing leader for us, very involved in the community, and, you know, wants to make a difference and has absolutely done so in a number of different respects.

Well, you know, I remember him telling me— I don't— I think it was someplace he was going somewhere with all of you on some leadership event, and he said to me, uh, I don't want managers, I want leaders. And, you know, and I— and he has sort of kept that. Like, I believe the two of you, you know, it always stops at the top, or it goes in a great way at the top. This case, it goes in a great way. But, uh, you know, it's amazing Don't you think it's amazing, Karen, that all of the people at like the executive EVP level all call me to work with Bender Consulting? I mean, I think that's unusual because, you know, you can go to a company, even if you know the top person, maybe you work with one area. But at Highmark, it has sort of integrated into the company's diversity work. And yeah, you know, why do you think Highmark's like that? I mean, it started with Bill Lowry, then John Brouse, then Ken Maloney, then Bill Winkenwerder, and now here I am with the two of you. But why do you think it's like that at Highmark?

You know, I think culturally, Joyce, we are a business that is about caring for people. You know, and I think in, in that business, we just try to be very thoughtful about each individual and what they need to be their best, you know. And so I think it, it just fits naturally with the work that you do at Bender Consulting. It fits naturally with the goals that I talked about before in terms of Making sure that we have diverse points of view at the table so that we can make the best decisions that we do. I just think it's very much aligned with our culture and who we are because of the business that we're in. You know? Now, I say that, but at the same time, Joyce, and you and I have talked about this. Listen, this is not the model that we have with Bender. Is not at all, does not at all have to be unique in its success because of anything at Highmark. Like the employment of people with disabilities can be successful anywhere. It's not because of the type of work we do at Highmark or the company that we are, you know, that's not it. You can absolutely be successful anywhere. You just need to work proactively at making sure that you're thoughtful about the sorts of barriers that would otherwise get in the way, and don't let those things be barriers.

Yeah, yeah. And I also want to say about with Highmark, Highmark, yeah. It's the right thing to do to include all groups of people. But Highmark does it for business reasons. It's not charity. You know, that's why at Bender we always say, "Paychecks, not pity." And that's how it is with Highmark. It's not that they're giving me this, "Oh, you know, here Joyce, we'll help you." It's like a charity. Which I would never let it be like that anywhere, but I just want to point out that it has always been like that, and that is how it will always be. When you hire people with disabilities, it's a business investment. It's a return on investment, uh, and that's why follow the example of Highmark. You can't go wrong. And also, Karen, another great thing I would say about you is that you are a great role model for women in leadership roles. And sadly, as you well know, at many, many, many, many corporations, that isn't the way it is at the top. And I wanted to ask you, do you specifically work on that? Do you work on that to try to build women to move into higher-level roles? How do you feel about that?

Yeah, yeah. You know, I've been fortunate that I have never at Highmark felt a glass ceiling. You know, I really feel like I've been so blessed to have had so many different opportunities here. But as I say that, you know, I think it's important that I recognize that my experience is not consistent across everybody, that not everybody feels the same way. And so I do think that, you know, as a woman leader, I have an obligation around that, you know, and try to fulfill that obligation in a number of different respects. Some of it is mentoring and coaching and counseling. Some of it is listening, frankly, and understanding what do people see as the barriers and the challenges, and how do I work to bring solutions around those barriers or challenges so that we can work through those things. I think part of it is also just being present in the communities, you know, outside of the walls of Highmark and representing women leaders well and trying to, you know, in doing so, helping to support the concept of elevating women as leaders in the communities that we're in. And so I think it's multiple things, you know, that we focus on doing every day. Highmark has just been a company that very much has supported the leadership of women. I mean, if you looked at Highmark, we actually had a couple of women retire not that long ago. Prior to their retirement, I think it was more than half of the executive team were women, and they were running, you know, material businesses. And, you know, our— one of my goals is to make sure that we as a company continue to support that and that we're investing in all people and making sure that we're, you know, breaking down barriers so that people can do their best work and, you know, really, you know, rise to the level that they want to or they aspire to in their career.

Well, you had a great example with Nan DeTurk.

Mm-hmm.

I bet you, I bet you learned so much from her.

Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, for those that don't know, Nan DeTurk was actually the individual that I worked for across many years of my career when I first joined Highmark. Probably. I probably worked for her for 15 years or 16 years. She ended up becoming our CFO before me and, and was very much a supporter of, you know, women in the workforce, very much a strategic thinker, you know, a finance person that moved outside of the finance box in terms of how how they thought about, you know, how she thought about her accountabilities and playing a role in making sure that we were doing well from a business standpoint. And so, yeah, I took a lot of leadership lessons from Nan for sure.

Yeah, she really is a great person. And I remember two things. One, her saying to me, there's someone you got to get to know. Karen Hanlon. I remember her saying that to me. She's really good. You've got to get to know Karen Hanlon. And that's how I first met David Holmberg. She said, I want you to meet someone, and we went to, uh, to lunch together. But I, I clearly remember her telling me, uh, about you. And, uh, you know, she had that meeting at Highmark with her whole staff telling them, having me speak and telling them about employing people with disabilities. I'm meaning like 300 people or something in that big auditorium. You were there. So, this is another example of how this has just continued and continued. And before I go to the next question, a lot of people, Karen, and I forgot to mention this before, Sadly, there are a lot of people with disabilities that live in poverty and are on Medicare or Medicaid and are always looking for, you know, a provider who can they work with. I thought you could just take a couple of minutes to talk about Highmark Whole Care.

Sure, absolutely. Yes, so Highmark Whole Care is our company that provides coverage for people with Medicaid and for people that are dually eligible for both Medicaid and Medicare. It was formerly known as Gateway Health Plan. It's, you know, been doing business for a little over 30 years now, and for many years, we jointly owned Gateway Health Plan along with another entity. And then back in 2021, I believe it was, we acquired all of Highmark HealthCare. And they do just amazing work for, as I said, people that are on Medicaid or those that are jointly eligible for Medicare and Medicaid. Really understanding the needs of an individual, not just their health needs. And really, Highmark is doing this across all of the people it serves, not just Medicaid members, but as you're pointing out, Joyce Bender, it's, you know, particularly important and more acute in the Medicaid population as we think about not just a person's physical health needs, but also their mental health needs and the social determinants of health, whether that be housing insecurity, food insecurity, transportation needs, whatever it is, right? So Highmark Whole Care has been deeply invested in understanding the entire set of needs that an individual has, and then providing solutions around those needs. We've been very proactive in engaging with our customers around that whole person point of view, Understanding those needs and then connecting through something we call a high-performing social care network, the community partners that can engage with those people to fill in some of the care that they need that goes beyond their physical health needs. So in some cases, that could be partnering them with a food bank. In other cases, it could be connecting them with the local power company around their utility bills and financial assistance they might need there. In some cases, it could be connecting them with a service that we have that can satisfy transportation needs. But Whole Care has, has been a leader in that in Pennsylvania, and, and Highmark has really kind of broadened that model to also serve the Medicaid population. Population in West Virginia, in Delaware, and in partnership with another Blue Cross Blue Shield plan also in parts of New York.

Well, so I just want— wanted everyone to know we're talking about Highmark Whole Care. So, you know, you go to the website, you can look that up if you have any questions, and there's a Contact Us. So, I just wanted you all to know, Highmark Whole Care. And Karen, as you mentioned earlier, you are really going through a lot of key transformative initiatives at Highmark, and it's all centered around the patient. Would you mind talking about that a few minutes?

Sure, yeah. So, I think I would start with, you know, we've done deep work over a period of years now to understand the patient journey and the insurance member journey. And of course, you know, at different times I use those two terms, but the individual is one and the same, you know. And to understand, you know, what parts of navigating the healthcare ecosystem work well, what parts do not work so well, what are the things that we need to do to really eliminate some of the complexity of the system. To eliminate the fragmentation of the system, to make it easier for the patient to navigate, so that what they can really do is focus on their health and not focus on, you know, the things that get in the way of that. And so that's comprised of lots of different work. You know, for example, at Allegheny Health Network, you know, apropos to having the discussion with you today, Joyce Bender, we've been doing work work with you and others at Allegheny Health Network around barriers for people with disabilities and what the patient journey looks like for somebody with a disability and what are the things that we need to do better to remove those barriers and to make it easier for an individual to interact with the healthcare system. What are the things that we need to do with our physicians? Physicians to educate them better so that they are better equipped to care for people with disabilities. We're doing work within both Allegheny Health Network and within our insurance enterprise around digital engagement with individuals and putting better solutions in place so that people are able to access the healthcare resources more more easily. In some cases, they don't have to leave their home, right? They don't have to take time off work. They can access care virtually. One of the most popular solutions that we have out there right now is a virtual physical therapy solution where people are able to do their physical therapy regimen virtually, so they can do it from anywhere. They can do it from home. They can do it from work. And you can imagine and, you know, how that removes barriers to being able to otherwise access physical therapy, right? The person doesn't have to take time off work. They don't have to figure out their transportation to actually get to the physical therapist's office. We're doing work on between the payer and the provider. How do we remove some of the administrative elements of healthcare that, you know, either the payer or the provider are spending time on, and when we spend time on it, we spend money on it, but they're really not adding to the experience that an individual has. And so we're doing a lot of work on how do we take things that are happening and automate them between the payer and the provider so that, you know, frankly, we don't have to have somebody in a provider's office faxing a piece of paper over to the insurance company to request the care that's needed. You know, can we change the process so that the request isn't needed at all? And in the cases where, you know, we do need to weigh in as the insurance company, you know, how do we do it in a way that promotes a digitized approach so that it happens as quickly as it can, as easily as it can. So those are just some examples, but it's a, a very far-reaching set of activities because, as I said earlier, you know, the journey is complex, and there are lots of places that we can look to make improvements and make it better. We found that the most important things to people is that they know where to go for care, that they're able to access care as easily as possible, and that we are thoughtful about the financial barriers to care, and we make it as easy for them to understand what the cost is going to be and to pay whatever, you know, their part of the responsibility around that is, while certainly acknowledging that for some people, It's also having the ability to pay and the things that we can do to make healthcare more affordable for everyone.

Which is so awesome. Yeah, that thing about being able to get your therapy from home, as you just said, don't have to miss work. But let's think about people, as you know, I live with epilepsy, but think about people with epilepsy that can't drive.

That's right.

Yep. I mean, there are so many things I can think of where that would be a benefit, or like in the winter, you know, so they're not having to get out, drive in the snow. Yeah, that is, that is really great that you can do that. It's not that long ago that this whole telehealth thing took off, right?

Well, Joyce, I'll tell you what, you know, there were lots of things about COVID that we could list in the pros and cons, but the explosion of telehealth was absolutely one of the pros. All of a sudden, you know, it was, you know, it was, there was risk involved with going into a doctor's office or to a hospital, and so everybody found a way to use telehealth. It wasn't quite taking off before that, but it certainly did through COVID. And while, you know, a lot of services are back in person, the use of virtual health, whether it's video or just over the phone or through some sort of assisted technology, has continued. And I think that will continue to be the case. You know, technology just continues to advance in a way where more and more care will be able to be offered in the home and will not require a trip to the doctor's office or a trip to the hospital or whatever the case is. And frankly, as long as clinically that is the best answer and that's the most appropriate answer, There are a lot of reasons that's great. That's where people have their support structure. They feel more comfortable there. They feel better about being there. In some cases, the risk of infection is lower. Just a variety of reasons. I think technology will continue to enable that, and it's certainly a core part of our strategy.

Well, that was what I was going to ask you, and I've already seen it in so many ways. But do you envision technology becoming more and more a part of making healthcare more effective, more efficient? What do you think about that?

Oh, there's no doubt. There's no doubt, you know, and I think it just comes from so many different directions. I start with, you know, and it's it's— we kind of lose perspective on this, but it's probably only been, you know, 15 years or so since the medical record was fully digitized and being used, you know, commonly throughout the healthcare ecosystem, and now we wouldn't know what to do without it, right? But with that comes a set of data in terms of understanding an individual and what their needs are and what will work best for them. And I think, you know, the technology companies have used that to really— that along with just the advancement of technology to come up with solutions that, you know, at times frankly can kind of blow your mind in terms of some of the things that can be done. I think that will continue to be the case. You know, GenAI, of course, is the latest wave, and there will be a lot of benefits from that that will allow us to advance the patient experience, advance clinical care, to, you know, customize care to make it, you know, more relevant and more effective for a consumer. And certainly through all of this, we do You know, we have to find a way to make the experience better. Those complexities make it harder for somebody to take the best care of themselves. And so, we've got to get that complexity out of the system so that people can take the best care of themselves and take the actions that are necessary to improve their health.

Yeah. So much coming down in the future, Karen. So much coming. Well, Karen, as, as everyone can tell, uh, you are very remarkable and very successful. And usually there is, or are, people that have influenced you or that you look up to, uh, that, that have helped make that happen. So my question is, what about you? Do you have a role model or Have people influenced you?

Yeah, you know, my answer to this question, Joyce, because as you can imagine, you know, that's, that's a question that, that I would ask of lots of people, and lots of people, you know, ask me. You're always looking for like nuggets to learn from, right, when you ask that question. And my answer is always like, I've taken leadership I've learned different leadership lessons from different people. I wouldn't point to like one person and say, oh my gosh, like that person was my role model. They, you know, meant everything to me and were the driver. I've taken leadership lessons from lots of folks, and two that we've talked about on this call today absolutely have been huge with, you know, Amanda Turk and David Holmberg. But the list doesn't stop there, you know, and frankly, some of those people, I'm sitting in my office right now doing this phone call with you, some of those people I could walk down the hall and find, you know, they are peers of mine. In some cases, they're people that work for me, you know, or that I've worked with over the years in different ways. And so I just think it's building your own leadership style, and taking leadership lessons from lots of different people.

Yeah, and that is so true that there are so many people like you I learn a lot from. So, there are so many people that you just, you know, it's almost like reading a book. You know, it's hard sometimes if someone said, oh, what's your favorite book? Oh, that's hard because you learn something from everything that you read, some more than others, of course. But yes, I understand exactly what you mean. Well, Karen, it was truly a pleasure to have you on the show today. I do have to mention that I'm sure there are people listening right now thinking, oh, I wish so-and-so could hear this. And they can go to Spotify, Apple, VoiceAmerica.com, BenderConsult.com, really almost every social media venue tomorrow, and you can hear this show on demand. So make sure you share that with others. So Karen, in closing, what message do you have for our listeners?

Support the employment of people with disabilities because it will make a difference for you as a business. It will make a difference for that person. And Joyce, I want to thank you because you are just a tireless advocate for this. You obviously have invested all of your energy, your life into it, and I admire you so much for it. I think I've told you before, I, you know, as I've traveled to other places, I have witnessed the barriers that people with disabilities would encounter. And I think it's, you know, it's because of the many, many, many discussions that you and I have had and the work that we've done together, you know, that's put me in a position to be so cognizant of it. And so thoughtful of it. And I thank you for that. The world's a better place because of the work that you do. And thank you for your partnership with us at Highmark for that. And I would just encourage others to reach out to you and to do the same.

Well, thank you so much. The feeling is mutual about you. And with that, we end every show with a quote. And today, one of my favorite quotes. 'I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the water to create many ripples,' said Mother Teresa. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, on voiceamerica.com. Hey, don't forget, coming up, Jonathan Kay Park. Joy from MSNBC. And in the words of Mary Brooker, when you go out today, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.