Kenya Loudd: Strength of Section 504 of Rehabilitation Act

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And hello everyone, welcome to the show, to everyone in the United States and and around the world. We now have, let's see now, listeners, it goes from 16 to 18 countries, one of the largest being China, but Australia following up and the UK. And you know, sometimes we only have one listener, such as, believe it or not, we had one listener from Rwanda. But I always say, even if you're one, no matter where you are, tell other people, spread the news to other English-speaking people with disabilities. You could in fact make the difference. And speaking of around the world, with the U.S. State Department, I travel around the world as a speaker in their speakers program as an expert on the employment of people with disabilities. So I I would like a special shout out to my good friend Richard Roberts, who I first met in South Korea and then went on again to Japan with Richard. He is just such an awesome person. Gangyang Cho, another awesome person in South Korea with the State Department. Cheryl Harris, who I first met when I did a program for Tunisia. Libya, and now here she is in the United States with the State Department. She is just awesome. Then you mean in Kazakhstan. I just want to say, then you mean we're thinking about you. I can't imagine how tense it is right there in Kazakhstan, but we are with all of the people in the Ukraine and especially with people with disabilities trying to get out in the Ukraine. Uh, on behalf of Voice America, we are behind all of you. And hey, special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. You know Yoshiko, never going to forget you. I know you know that. I know you're saying hello, Joyce, from your apartment. I know you are. And thank you to Highmark, our lead sponsor. Well, very excited about our show today. I have not met Kenya before, and it is just awesome to have her with us. And Kenya, just so I have it right, is your last name pronounced "loud"?

It is, just an extra D, Joyce.

Okay, so we have Kenya Loud, who is a joint doctoral student at Yale in the Department of History of Science and Medicine, African American Studies. She herself is a person with a disability, and I'm really excited for all of you to meet Kenya and to hear what she's doing. And Kenya, since you just heard We have a large listening audience in the United States, but also around the world. So let's start, Kenya, with you telling our listeners about you. I know they'd love to hear your story, where you grew up, and also what it was like growing up Black and at the same time blind. So I'll turn it back over to you.

Okay, absolutely, Joyce. Well, I grew up in Fort Worth, Texas, which is right outside of Dallas, Texas. Born and raised there. I was actually not born blind. I was born an ADD and became legally blind later on in life. After graduation, after high school graduation, I went on to the United States Navy, and while I was in the Navy, I had a reaction known as Stevens-Johnson syndrome, which left me with scars on about 60% of my body, scarred corneas, and a lot of internal injuries. It was very questionable about whether I was going to have children or what my life expectancy would be moving forward. And that was my first experience with being a person with a disability. It would be 15 years later when an eye infection that is also a continuum of Stevens-Johnson syndrome would completely take my vision and make me a legally, completely legally blind person in both eyes. And so, after that, I decided, of course, like all people do, I went back to school. I started off in junior college at Tarrant County Junior College in Fort Worth and then transferred to the University of Texas at Arlington. Where I received an honors bachelor's degree in interdisciplinary studies with concentrations in African American studies, disability studies, and leadership studies. And then from there, went on to get my doctoral degree, which I'm working on now, at Yale University. So that is my big story, Joyce.

Wow, what a story. Hey, I want to just mention A lot of people don't know about Steven Johnson syndrome, and the sad part is you don't know about it until you have Steven Johnson syndrome. And was, in your case, was that from some type of medication you were taking?

Yes, actually. I had flu-like symptoms when I was still in boot camp finishing up my last couple of weeks, actually getting ready to go through the last hurdles of boot camp. And woke up one morning just not feeling well, Joyce. And I went to the commissary— went to the doctor. And they prescribed me amoxicillin. They prescribed me Motrin. And that, in combination with just a few weeks earlier, I had taken a whole host of vaccines. So it is unclear. I stay away from, obviously, amoxicillin and Motrin now. But the truth is, is that I really don't know what the whole what the allergic reaction was, but it happened very quickly. I went to my ship that night, went to sleep, took my medications, and woke up the next morning with an extremely high fever. By the time I arrived to the emergency room at the Great Lakes Naval Center, my fever was about 105 degrees, and I was starting to break out into blisters, and they had no idea what was happening. It wouldn't be until a couple of days later before they actually identified that I was having Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and I was medically airlifted to Loyola University where I would be treated for about 3 months.

Yes, I know. I know that there are people with Stevens-Johnson syndrome, just as Kenya mentioned about the blisters, that if this gets too carried away, The person looks as if they have third-degree burns. I am also not surprised how that impacted your vision, as that happens to a lot of people. I know about this because a customer of mine, his daughter had a reaction to— guess what? Ibuprofen. So you never know. You never know. That's the worst part. There's no way of knowing that you have this until— yeah, that reaction.

And yeah, absolutely, Joyce.

I have one, uh, friend of mine, you know, that is the head of the foundation for the Steven Johnson Syndrome, whose daughter Julie, uh, is a person with it who was brutally bullied in school. And she's a beautiful girl, um, she too is blind. And, you know, it's just, you know, it's just amazing how this happens. And I'm sorry you went through that, but I'm also glad that you're okay now. Thank you.

So, Joyce, I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead.

I just wanted to point out, I'm so glad that you brought up the Stevens-Johnson syndrome because I'm currently working on a piece, a From a survivor's perspective of Stevens-Johnson syndrome, this year in March marks the 100th year anniversary of the diagnosis, the first diagnosis of Stevens-Johnson syndrome, in which two young boys walked into Bellevue Hospital from opposite sides of New York City and were having this outbreak. And they identified it as a new eruptive fever, which would later be called Stevens-Johnson syndrome after the two men, Dr. Stevens and Dr. Johnson, which actually discovered the disease. So, shout out to all of the SJS Canada, the SJS Foundation, who— that was founded by Jean Macaulay, the mother of Julie, who you spoke so eloquently about.

Oh yeah, that's who I'm talking about. Yes, I know them both well. Isn't that something? Small world. Well, that is amazing about that 100-year. That's very interesting. Very interesting. Well, Kenya, what are you doing at Yale? You know, you're a joint doctoral student. Tell us what your study, what is your research? What will your thesis be? What are you working on?

Absolutely. So, I am, my broad research topic, I'm looking at the Black experience with disability throughout the diaspora. And for my dissertation topic, I will be doing two things. The first thing I will be doing, excuse me, exploring segregated institutions that served deaf and blind African American students from the late 19th century going well through the 20— I'm sorry, the late 20th century going well through the mid-21st century. So we're talking about from 1885 all the way through, in some cases, as late as 1973. And so I'm going to be doing some research looking at the communities that were built there, about how they were able to protect these children from all of the other things that were going on with African Americans during the time, protecting them from the brutalizations of Jim Crow, and providing them with not only education, but also with being able to further their education. I found evidence that some of these students went on to college, went on to become teachers, and have, you know, a plethora of jobs and opportunities that has not been explored. So that is the first part of my research. Research project. And because it is very important to me to ensure that these things are accessible to a wide range of people, especially people with disabilities, I'm also working on making this research into a documentary film that will go alongside my dissertation.

Oh, would that be awesome. Oh, that is really awesome. You know what a lot of people do not know is that eugenics actually started in the United States. And it is amazing how many people believed in this. Then sadly, this information got to Germany and the rest is history. And one of the first groups of people, of course, executed were people with disabilities. So, I think— I remember there was a school for children who are deaf in, in Nazi Germany, who they actually burned the school down. And what I think about eugenics, uh, and women, for example, with epilepsy, which I live with epilepsy, but, uh, people being involuntarily sterilized that had disabilities. And the case that went to Oliver Wendell Holmes on, you know, proving that sterilization is a cause involuntary for people with disabilities that should go forward. And sadly, his ruling was two generations of imbeciles are enough. So, you know, you're going to have a very interesting paper and research and documentary when you are finished. And you'll have to let us know so that I can let our listeners know, Kenya, when that does happen.

Absolutely, Joyce, absolutely.

Well, Kenya, thank you for your service. Um, what caused you to join the Navy? Which, by the way, my father's a World War II veteran. He's 97, he's still living, and he was in the Navy.

Oh wow, that is a blessing. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank your father so much for his service. Um, I, I'm also the proud wife of an ex-Marine as well. Um, but honestly, I was in, uh, Junior ROTC in high school and did phenomenally well at it. I was the battalion commander, which means I was over I was over the entire school, the highest-ranking person in the school. And it was something that I really enjoyed. Honestly, I enjoyed the structure and the discipline of it. And I wanted to become, at that point, a physician's assistant. That was my dream. And not wanting to cause any financial strain on my family at all, I decided that I would go into the Navy and then go to college through my service, you know, through my service-connected benefits that would, that would come from being enlisted. So that, that's the reason that really drew me to the Navy, was that I wanted to go to school. I didn't want to have to worry about the finances of it or put any strain on my family, and so it seemed like a viable reason to go.

Well, I, I see also that I was looking, you know, when you were talking, you just now mentioned about wanting to be a physician's assistant, and I see that you're working in the Department of the History of Science and Medicine.

I was just wondering if you did any research or work on the healthcare disparity that occurred to the African American community during COVID I actually have not, but I can tell you that there is a wonderful professor here, you know, her name is Katie Wang, and she was born blind in Texas, and she received her doctorate degree here at Yale University. She works in the Department of Public— I'm sorry, the School of Public Health, and she does much wonderful research on how COVID-19 has had direct impacts on marginalized and oppressed populations. Her work is phenomenal.

Well, you know, being that you are in the Department of History of Science and Medicine, I think you would agree that this will be in history books. You know, what a terrible— I call it the plague, but who would ever dream this is possible?

Yes, absolutely. And I think this will definitely be something that our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be reading about as if it was the the influenza outbreak of the early 21st century, you know, killing so many people and causing such exponential harm to people and really pointing out a lot of disparities that we have in our healthcare system, especially for people with disabilities, people of color, and other marginalized groups.

So true. That is so true, sadly. That is so true. Yeah. Well, as you know, we are celebrating the 45th anniversary of the issuance of regulations of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, which is so exciting. Um, yes. So for our listeners, let's start by talking about what is Section— what is 504? What is Section 504? Of the Rehab Act?

Absolutely. So the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 was signed into legislation in 1973, and it took the United States a little while to actually implement it. And people with disabilities were patiently waiting for this to happen, and basically they were wanting to have equal access to federal, state buildings, equal access to anyone who was getting federal or state money, which included public institutions, public colleges, and universities. Simply being able to access these schools, being able to access these places, and being able to access them without discrimination. And that was the important work of Section 504.

Well, would you say this, this was directed the most toward education or equally across the board?

I think just equally across the board. It definitely affected education, but it was about being equal across the board, about giving people with disabilities access to places that physically they could, in many cases, physically, they could not enter. We're talking about buildings with stairs, buildings that didn't have elevators in them. At this time, there were no Braille signs. So just these very simple, nuanced things that for an able-bodied person, they really don't notice, but for a person with a disability, it can provide, it can be a major barrier to actually being able to have access to equal living, to equal employment, to equal education. All of these things that in, you know, in real time adds up to being able to pay your bills, being able to be independent and self-sufficient.

Would that include parks, public parks?

Any institution that was federally or state funded was under this umbrella.

Oh, that would include national parks. That's amazing. And I— yeah. So, let me ask you this. I just want your opinion. Why do you think that took so long to have this implemented?

To be honest, Joyce, I think— and it's something that we are really fighting against, right, in the disability community and continue to fight against. And that is people with disabilities' voices have often been muted, right? Often being spoke for by other people, by able-bodied people, whether those are their parents, their friends, people who really don't have any contact with people with disabilities. And I think that that was really what took so long for it to happen. Up until this point, disability was really looked at through a white male normalcy type of stigma. So if you were a woman with a disability or a person a person of color with a disability, or a non-gender-conforming person with a disability. Disability really wasn't about you. It was about those who had served in the military and figuring out how to get them back in the workforce and the labor force and enable them to be equal participants. But for other people, they weren't included in that scheme of what access should be for people with disabilities. And I think that that's really what took so long. But once— the beautiful thing about the 504 is, and the sit-ins and the protests that took place in the month of April in 1977, is that it really allowed all of these other people to collaborate together and come together to form one united voice. And that is what the power of the 504 is.

Well, you know, it is sad but true that stigma, you know, exists and did exist. You yourself, how being blind, have you had a lot of barriers or stigma? How about with you? How have you seen that?

Oh my, you know, I am very fortunate to be a veteran because that really opened up a lot of doors for me. As far as being able to have access to certain technologies and certain trainings that enabled me to be as independent as I am as a person with a disability, as a legally blind Black woman with a disability. But that did not prevent me from meeting this door of access, right? Especially, I felt it most here on Yale's campus. Honestly, to tell you the truth, at the beginning of this year, this was my first year actually physically navigating the campus, because my first year here, we were completely online due to the pandemic. And so I entered this institution on the actual grounds of the institution and really realized just how inaccessible so many places and spaces are on this institution. There are still buildings where there are stairs and no ramps. Counts to get in. Now we are talking about Yale University. Lots of money, right? It is not like it is a money issue. It really comes to the fact that people with disabilities are not in the arithmetic of how the school is constructed. People with disabilities are not necessarily "supposed to be here." That is really what sparked a lot of my activism here on campus, was just wanting to understand how accessibility worked on the Yale campus, who I needed to speak to, and how I could kind of start this conversation so that people with disabilities could just have more access. And that led us to a symposium that we had on disability and accessibility on Yale's campus. It was a virtual symposium that took place on April 4th, the day before the HEW sit-in took— HEW 504 sit-in took place in San Francisco in 1977, the 45th anniversary, like you pointed out, Joyce. So we have started the conversation. It is going strong. There are other allies that we have been able to find on campus, such as DEFY, which is an undergraduate activism group on disability here on Yale's campus. Groups like Divine Abilities, which is centered in the in the divination school. So there are allies there, and we have been able to find these allies and really enhance the conversation and collaborate, like in the spirit of the 504, so that we can get more work done and, you know, really try to open up the doors for people with disabilities even more so on Yale's campus and abroad.

Well, that is really great. That is good news, and I want to talk more about this after our news break. But on the half hour, you listeners know we have this tremendous person that handles our news break, and that is Advocacy Matters with Perry Jude Radesik. Perry, welcome.

Thanks for having me here. And we've got something really important to talk about today, and we have a deadline coming up of May 27th, and we're going to talk about the accessibility of aircraft Access to aircraft lavatories. The U.S. Department of Transportation is seeking public comment on a very important proposed rule that would require single aisle aircraft of 125 passenger seats or more to ensure that at least one lavatory is accessible. And it's hard to believe, but currently there is no federal requirement that aircraft aircraft lavatories be accessible to passengers with disabilities. What's important here is that these aircraft of 125 passenger seats or more are flying nonstop up to 9 hours. So we can imagine how important it is to have an accessible lavatory on such aircraft. Now, the U.S. Department of Transportation— as one that's going to be large enough to permit a passenger with a disability and, if needed, with the help of an assistant, to approach, to enter, to maneuver within the aircraft lavatory, and to use all of the facilities and leave by means of the aircraft's onboard wheelchair. Now, this rule is an important step forward But here's the bad news. The U.S. Department of Transportation wants the airlines to only put this into effect 18 years from now. 18 years from now. Oh, my God.

Wow.

So, that's not okay. I mean, it's great. It's a great step forward to have this proposed rule, but we should not have to wait 18 years after the effective date of the final rule for the requirement to go into effect.

—apparently.

So advocacy now.

Yeah. That is terrible. Okay, so what can our listeners do?

So you've got to submit a comment. You have to submit a comment on the proposed rule, particularly urging the U.S. Department of Transportation to not wait 18 years for the access requirements to go into effect. Everyone knows we can and must do better. So go to disabilityrightsPA.org, click on today's Advocacy Matters segment, you'll find a link to the proposed rule and a link that's going to let you make a public comment. So click on that link before May 27th. Applaud the U.S. Department of Transportation for taking this step, but tell them they got to shorten that time span of 18 years. They just have to.

Do you know where you're going to have the biggest hurdle on all of this? You know, Tony Coelho has told me repeatedly how when they were trying to get the ADA signed, how Greyhound was one of the biggest opposers. Well, you know why. It costs money. It costs money. You know, it costs money to make everything accessible. And isn't that sad? But I could see lobbyists from the airplane, airline industry mounting opposition to all of this. Just the fact that 18 years, that is terrible. You know, when I went to South Korea, Japan, Indonesia, all of those countries as a representative for the U.S. State Department as an expert on the employment of people with disabilities, those flights They are 22 hours. Now, imagine if you are asked to go, but you are in a wheelchair or a power wheelchair, either one, absolutely impossible. Absolutely impossible. So what you are really doing is saying you cannot go. You are excluding this huge population in this country, and for that reason, Perry, I have many friends, and you probably do too, that between that and the fact that people break wheelchairs, you know, whenever— by the way, Judy Heumann, when she came to Pittsburgh, when she got back to D.C., her wheelchair was broken. So many people with disabilities, they just won't fly. They would rather drive nonstop than fly or use a train or some other form of transportation. But, oh, I hope you listeners come on, you heard what she said. And by the way, you may not be disabled now, but you certainly could be over the next several years. You've got to go, you've got to go to Advocacy Matters webpage at disabilityrightspa.org. You've got to go, you've got to go make that comment before— did you say May 27th, Perry?

That's right, Joyce Bender.

Before May 27th. What do you think about that, Kenya?

I, as someone who travels often, I live in Connecticut, but my family is in Texas, including my husband and my 4 children. So, I travel biweekly. And this is, I just like to say, this is not important only for people in wheelchairs or power wheelchair users, but for people with all disabilities. This will make traveling more accessible for people with all disabilities. So, we should definitely push the United States to make this better.

Agreed. Absolutely. Agreed. Well, Perry, Perry, thank you so much. And Perry, you must keep us apprised of what's happening on this. You've got to keep us—

We will.

We'll report on the final rule. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you, Perry. Thank you so much. Thank you for for always keeping us apprised of what's going on. Have a remaining great day. Thanks, Joyce. Take care. So awesome she is. I love this because we are the source of weekly news on what is happening, Kenya, across the country. That's why I tell everyone they've got to subscribe to Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com. Just go to Spotify or Apple. Subscribe because you've got to spread this around so people know what's happening. And here we are. Yes, here we are talking about Section 504. Wow, what a protest that was that you're talking about in 1977. That, that is history, uh, and that's why I was so happy with Crip Camp because it included that since it was about Judy Heumann. But for our listeners, I know there are people in the United States that don't know, let alone people around the world. So why don't you tell all of our listeners what happened?

Yeah, Section 504 was, um, the 504 sit-ins were son of the most profound visualizations of people with disabilities that the United States has ever seen. There were protests in cities all over the United States, like New York, Chicago, Detroit, Dallas, Atlanta, San Francisco, all over the United States. But the largest of these protests and the most profound was that in San Francisco, where over 150 people with an array of disabilities, of of different ethnicities, different colors, different gender subscriptions. All of these people occupied this building for over 3 weeks. And this was like such a collaborative effort, because they had help from large institutions like the Salvation Army, which provided, you know, mattresses for them to sleep on. The Black Panther Party provided meals for all of the people in their assistance for the entire time of the sit-in. It was supported, you know, expansively throughout the United States. And what they were able to do was occupy this building for over 3 weeks of time collaboratively and make a stance and say, "No more." And that is what actually ended up implementing the Nondiscriminatory Act that became 504, later leading up to the ADA of 1990. '70, and all of the subsequent amendments and acts that have come from that. So we owe such a huge honor, we owe so much to all of those who actually occupied those buil— that building and enabled us to be where we are, even though we're not all the way there. We've come a long way, Joyce, from where we were in 1977.

And would you mind sharing with our listeners what caused that protest?

Yes, basically what caused the protest is because, as I said earlier, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, even though it was signed into legislation, there had been no work to actually make it happen. No actual implementation of what it promised to do. So these protesters were protesting for their rights that had already been given to them. They wanted these rights implemented They wanted to have equal access to federal buildings, state buildings, any entity receiving federal and state funds across the United States. They wanted to have equal employment and just be nondiscriminant in all of their access to every, you know, daily things that many people take for granted. They just wanted to have equal access. And they were able to make like a huge stride and make that happen. You know, Kitty Cone and Judy —were such wonderful organizers of it and were the leading faces, which was extremely important because these were women during the time, right? These were women in the 1970s taking a stance against discriminatory acts against people with disabilities.

And, yeah, that sit-in was a major disability rights protest in April of 1977.. And as you said, there was a San Francisco Federal Building sit-in, and that was started, which is amazing, as you said, by women. And who did they target at the beginning?

Who did they target at the beginning? I believe it was a very collaborative effort. They want— you know, a lot of the movement, a lot of the movement really started in the UC Berkeley area, right? There was this really big push for people with disabilities, especially who would subsequently be college students, for them to have access and to have a say-so about how they were taken care of, about who was taking care of them, about it no longer being a sense of pity, but instead entitlement. I am entitled to be able to access good healthcare. I am entitled to be able to say who is taking care of me. So, the UC Berkeley area was like a hub of so much of this movement that spread so sporadically throughout, and this really throughout the United States.

And I think they targeted the Department of Health, Education, Welfare as the lead agency. Is it— that's who they— Judy Heumann and this whole group, that's who they And wow, what an impact they had.

Isn't that amazing? Yes, absolutely. Lasting impact. Yes.

So, you know, you're working on this work that you talked about earlier. But before we talk more about that, a little comment you just made caught my attention. Section 504. 504. How strong do you believe that is today? Like, how much further do we have to go, or is it in jeopardy? What do you think?

This is a wonderful question, Joyce. I think that the spirit of the 504, right, the collaborative spirit that enabled all of these different types of people to come together who had different life experiences, like extremely different life experience, to be able to come together and collectively stand up, I believe I think that we're in a very good place right now. I think that the pandemic has re-sparked the— we've moved from disability rights to disability justice. That's the kind of switch that I see. We have the rights. Now we want the justice. We want it to no longer be a point of simply institutions checking off of their list about what needs to be done in order for them to, you know, comply. Instead, we want to think about just lived experiences, right? We're thinking about how we can— what is just right? What is the right thing to do? When we're moving from pity to empowerment. And so, I think the spirit of the 504 is alive and well. We absolutely have much, much more work to do, and I think the The fact that people with disabilities are so visible now, it reminds people that there is so much work to be done. It goes far beyond just compliance. It goes far beyond just having a ramp. Just as the wonderful newscaster just informed us, we're thinking about being able to travel equally, to have access to all of these things that able-bodied people probably don't even realize. Being able to read an email without there being un-OCR'd things on the screen. It's like these little small things that we can implement in our daily lived experiences that can really have a large impact on people with accessibility, I mean, people with disabilities and their access to space and place and just being able to live their lives to the fullest. So I think the power of the 504 is strong and that we're finding a new group of people, younger group of people who are breathing new life into this activism. Right.

And you know what, Kenya, I was very impressed on the research you talked about that you are doing. What is your— what are your plans? Like, what is your career goal? What do you want to be doing when your doctorate is finished?

Absolutely. I love the nonprofit sector. I have— I am the co-founder of a nonprofit called BeLikeAGirl.org. But even more so, I love the research and I love working one-on-one and having that, you know, relationship with students. So I think that is very important, especially now that I've been in undergraduate and graduate school. The representation is what's needed. So I would love to be a tenure-track professor at an institution. It doesn't have to be huge. It doesn't have to be be small. I would be happy wherever the Creator put me, you know, but I would love to be able to be a reminder and a representation that change is happening and to, you know, enable to spark the next generation to think about how they can push the envelope even more.

Oh, that is a great— that is a great attitude and a great plan, and I know you will be successful. And you mentioned this Be Like a BeLikeAGirl.org. What is that?

Yes, BeLikeAGirl.org is an organization that I co-founded with a very dear friend of mine named Nkoyo Ojuok, and it is centered around giving African American girls, people of— girls of African descent experience mentoring and networking within STEM careers. As many of your listeners probably know, African American women in particular are very much so underrepresented in STEM careers, as are people with disabilities. So, it is very important that we provide this mentoring and networking and support system for them in order to enable them to have equal access to these careers and to be able to add change on their own communities.

Now, like, what do you do at your not-for-profit? What are some of the programs to help make those goals a reality?

Absolutely. So right now we are in a pilot program. We— this is the second semester of the pilot program we're working on. It is with an African-centered school called the Uhuru Academy. And with this pilot program, basically what we do is we introduce the girls to Black women in STEM, many of which none of them had ever heard of before, giving them an introduction of the historical background, and then also We also do something that we call YEER, Youth Empowerment Action Research, which enables the girls to identify problems that they see within their communities, and then conduct research and present the community with ideas of how they may better serve, you know, better— how can I say this? How they may be able to better serve these communities and really have an impact on these issues that they are concerned about. So we're in— in short, we're trying to build the future leaders of tomorrow.

And why I'm asking you this is, where do you start? You know what I mean? Where do you start? Because I— you know, we have at the Bender Leadership Academy— and now we're not teaching people STEM, you know. I own Bender Consulting Services, which is a for-profit company company focusing on the competitive employment of people with disabilities and training and accessibility. But a few years ago, we launched the Bender Leadership Academy as a separate entity because for over 20 years I did volunteer work helping high school students with disabilities, preparing them for the world of work and how to deal with bullying and believing in themselves. And You know, so many people are taking their own lives that are youth, so very important to me. Absolutely. However, at the same time, I have people saying to me what you just said. Why aren't people with disabilities going into the STEM field? Why aren't they? Well, one of the reasons is the bar is lowered when the person is in preschool and/or for, you know, first year of school. And of course, you know, just like that book, Shame of the Nation: Apartheid in America, you know, the poorer you are, the less education, quality education that you receive. So, when I was talking once to none other than Judy Heumann about this and told her what I was doing, she said, yeah, the only problem is you have to start almost in kindergarten. I don't know what you think about that, but you know, the person obviously has to be well-educated in school, included, you know, moving on, or how the heck will they ever move into a STEM area?

Yeah, absolutely, Joyce, absolutely. And you know, we're very statistically based, so you know, before we started this nonprofit, we did a lot of research— I did a lot of research on on the statistics behind Black women in STEM and Black girls in their interactions in school. And one of the things that I found out was that the age in which the disconnect between science and technology and math tends to happen is when girls— when African American girls are moving from elementary school to middle school. Something happens there, and they are less likely from that at middle school age moving forward, they're less likely to move into higher-level math and science courses. They're less likely to take Algebra 1, which is considered the gateway course in STEM fields, right? They're less likely to take that course before 9th grade. And what happens is you don't take that course before 9th grade, then you're less likely to take the advanced courses like calculus and trigonometry and those types of courses, which really, you know, prepare you and lay the groundwork for STEM careers. So, I absolutely agree with you, Joyce. It has to start very early. It has to start very early. Right.

And how do you do that when you have these young African American girls that live in poverty? That's what I'm meaning. I mean, it's really a dilemma, to say the least. Yeah, absolutely.

And it is why we see— I do not know if you have heard of the latest statistics on people with disabilities in prison systems, right? But there is— we see this overlap happening because the juvenile justice system is plagued with people of color. And also, you know, the prison system. But the most recent statistics said that 8 out of 10 prisoners identify as having a disability. So there is definitely an overlap. Overlap here with this conversation when we're talking about the disparation between when it comes to being a person with a disability and being a person of color. And so I think that, in my opinion, it has to be a holistic community-centered village concept, right? Everyone has to buy in. We all have to be accountable for how people are being educated. We have to be accountable for what is expected. And we have to be accountable for creating an an environment that buttresses, you know, them to be able to really develop the visions that they identify at a young age and keep them on course.

Right. Well, Kenya, before we end the show today, I wanted to ask you, at this point in your life, what do you believe is your greatest accomplishment?

Oh, I love this question, Joyce, when I saw it in the question list, and I've been thinking through lately becoming the the most, the truest, most authentic version of myself. And for me, what that means is being able to be proud and identify every part of myself. So I identify as a legally blind woman of African descent with a service-connected disability. That is every aspect of myself. And my biggest accomplishment to this day is being able to be proud of just that and not being forced, not feeling like I'm forced to pluck out, as Audre Lorde, says, pluck out little parts of me in order to fit into certain communities. I can fit into every community that I am a part of and be the most truest authentic version of myself. And I'm very proud of that.

Well, that is a great accomplishment. That's why I always say to people, you know, I'm living with epilepsy and I'm not ashamed I'm living with epilepsy. Kenya, thank you so much for being with us.

Joining us today. Thank you, Joyce Bender. Thank you and good luck. And I, I will be a listener from here on out. Thank you so much.

You are more than welcome. So we end every show with a quote. Oh, what does it have to be today? I was going to either have to get involved with changing the system that limited me or not participate in Said Judy Heumann. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Remember, in the words of Mary Brooker, choose joy. Talk to you next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.