Kerry Stith: Committed to Disability Advocacy

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show, and a special shout out Yoshiko Yoshiko Dart, love you, wanted to recognize you. And to all of my listeners around the world, you know, sometimes I list the countries, so I'm gonna list some of them right now. China, Japan, Poland, Canada, Singapore, Sweden, United Kingdom, Philippines, Honduras, Korea, Ireland, Australia, Saudi Arabia. Now, if you are that one person in Saudi Arabia, you can make a difference. You can make a difference by sharing the news with English-speaking people in your country. We need to let everyone know that people with disabilities have quality of life. We also have Brazil and South Korea. And I mentioned them because my great friend, disability rights leader who works for the State Department, Richard Roberts, I will be seeing you this fall in Brazil. So excited. Gangyang Cho in South Korea, you know I love you. You are just absolutely So awesome. And I have to thank our sponsor, Highmark. Highmark, what a great lead sponsor. You know, this is the 21st year Disability Matters has been on the air. Can you believe it? Why? Why? Because of my great listeners. You listen, I'll put you up against any other listening audience for any show with your loyalty. You are also just fantastic. Thank you for listening to the show, and please keep spreading the news. And I am excited today because not— as we celebrate Black History Month, not only a great leader in the business community a disability rights leader nationally, and a close friend of mine that I love, Cary Stith, Senior Vice President, Accessibility Director at PNC. Cary, welcome to the show.

Joyce Bender, as I mentioned before we went live, I'm delighted to be here, and any day, regardless of how my day has gone, Any day I get a chance to talk to you, my day immediately improves. Your listeners hear the dynamism that you bring, and so how can anybody be in your company and walk away feeling the worse for it? So thanks again for allowing me to talk to your listeners today.

Right back at you, Kerry Stiff. Um, you know, Kerry, almost every show there's a different country, and people always want to know, well, that was a great guest, I want to know about them, I want to know their story. So if you don't mind sharing with our guests in the United States and of course around the world, uh, a little bit about yourself, like where did you grow up, go to school, your family, just about you and what went on after you graduated.

Sure, absolutely. And because you have truly an international audience, let me sort of geolocate where I grew up. I believe everybody in the world knows where Pittsburgh is at, if not where, at least in terms of from the sports tradition. So I grew up in a small town southwest Pennsylvania, probably about 60 miles south of Pittsburgh, but actually pretty close to the West Virginia border. So, a rural town. And I received my BS, my Bachelor of Science, and MBA degrees from Waynesburg College at the time, which is now Waynesburg University. And it is a small liberal arts school. And I am currently pursuing a Master of Divinity degree from Regent University. And also, in terms of the role that I do, I'm our accessibility director. And so while I don't work in IT, I actually sit in our HR organization, but I do work with our accessibility stakeholders across the enterprise, including IT. And in fact, something which we'll talk about a bit more as we go on, I think one of the real keys when it comes to accessibility is really to have a holistic approach and one that ensures that employees and customers with disabilities are embraced by an accessible culture and environment. And I've also— I've been with PNC since 1999, and I've worked in a variety of roles, enterprise-level roles, and really that experience has helped me to understand how things get done here. And so having an understanding of how things get done has also allowed me to, along with the help of a lot of other folks, to advance the cause of accessibility. And so what's my connection to this community? I think everybody has a connection. And for me, it really starts with my family. I entered this community as a result of my life circumstances, having two sons that were born with disabilities. Of course, one that you knew very well. So that's just a little bit about me, Joyce Bender.

Wow. Well, we're lucky that we have you here. That's what I have to say. So when did you join PNC, Carrie? The culture— I just had lunch yesterday, believe it or not, with a wonderful person, Vicki Henn, and she sort of is an example of why I feel the company has such a great culture and is so wonderful and inclusive. But what do you think that stems from?

Well, I'll tell you what, I knew you mentioned to me you were having lunch with Vicki, but if I would have kept track of the dates, I literally was in her company this morning and I could have mentioned, say, hey, I'm talking to Joyce Bender today. But you mentioned Vicki, and really, I think for any change to sustain, it's got to be endorsed and driven by the top. So I've been with PNC since 1999. Of course, during that time, we've seen leaders come and go. But one of the things that has remained constant is just a commitment to doing the right thing. And so I'll just give you an example. And so, Every leader here at PNC is assessed on what are called leadership standards that define the behavior of, of that we are expected to exhibit. So, you know, some organizations may just sort of look at sort of numbers to say, hey, will somebody hit their numbers? But at PNC, it's not only about what we do, but it's about how we do it. It's about the behavior that we exhibit. And I would also encourage anybody in your audience, if you want to learn a bit more about our culture and other aspects of PNC, you can check out our corporate responsibility report at our website, pnc.com. So that'll give you much more than I can in this relatively short period of time, just some insights into those things that are important to us and the culture that we try to exhibit.

Yeah. I would just, you know, PNC to me is like a Pittsburgh, of course their headquarters in Pittsburgh, but a Pittsburgh company in that, like, just like with you and like with Vicki, everyone is just that I've met friendly, down to earth. You know what I mean? There is not a culture of people that are really cold or arrogant or— I mean, it just reminds me of Pittsburgh people. It really is a wonderful company, but I do believe it starts at the top. I want to mention to everyone the CEO, Bill Demchak. His brother, his brother had a disability. He has since passed away, but He's very, very dedicated to the disability community. Have you seen that, Kerry?

Absolutely. And you know, the one thing about Bill, he is very much a person of action. It's really, it's very much about let's not talk about it, let's be about it. And so, so you won't always necessarily see our name out, well, PNC is doing this and PNC is doing that and We may not always be the first to sort of sign on to something, but that is in no way indicative of what we are doing. Very much around, you know, let the actions do your speaking for you. So absolutely that commitment is there.

Yes, it is. I just am so impressed with him and with the culture at PNC. And before we go to break, don't go away because we're going to be talking to Kerry about disability and inclusion at PNC and his own views on, on life living with people with disabilities. This is Joyce Bender. If you just joined us, we have been talking to Kerry Stith Joyce Bender, Senior Vice President, Accessibility Director at PNC. We will be right back.

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At Highmark, we believe what makes us different makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster diverse skills which complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition by the USBLN and the American Association of People with Disabilities as a 2014 Disability Equality Index Best Place to Work. So we'll continue to celebrate diverse individuals. Because inclusion benefits us all. To find out more, visit highmark.com.

Since 1985, Bender Consulting Services has served as a national leader in advancing employment of people with disabilities, including veterans with disabilities, with private sector companies and federal government agencies. Bender assists customers with achieving their diversity and workforce inclusion initiatives by tapping into a talent pool of individuals seeking professional positions, including those in the STEM fields. In addition, Bender Services include disability employment consulting, training in technology accessibility through their high-tech line of service. For more information, please visit www.benderconsult.com.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. We are talking to disability rights leader, excellent businessman, and Senior Vice President and Accessibility Director at PNC. And you know what? I wanted to mention this, Carrie. There aren't a lot of accessibility officers or directors across— not as many as there should be in the United States. At different companies.

You know what, Joyce, you're absolutely correct. And, you know, I, like you, really try to stay connected more broadly with others to do this type of work. As a matter of fact, talking with somebody you know quite well this morning, my first meeting of the morning, Jeff Whissel with Disability:IN. And one of the things we were talking about, I've just been hearing this a lot lately, is that starting to see burnout with accessibility practitioners. And I think in some ways it's because they may not necessarily feel supported to the point you're making. It's, hey, I'm an individual contributor and kind of feel like I need to roll this rock up the hill all by myself. So I feel very fortunate in that at PNC, the level of support that we do have. But you're right, they're professionally— you look at the different certifications. I mean, there's not a lot of people working in the space compared to, say, accountants. You think about other types of professions. But the need's there, and I do think it is going to be growing. So for those who are kind of feeling the strain, I think it's, you know, it's— I would say just hold on. Because there's a wave, it's already unleashed, and I think people are going to have to join it, uh, either willingly or not.

So yeah, yeah, there does seem to be a, uh, I call it the stall. There seems to be the stall, but, uh, you know, we will break through that and keep ongoing, and you will see it when this gets to the board level about the importance of accessibility in the corporation, eat— to not only attract, uh, listeners and not only to attract money to the company from people with disabilities, but also investors. Looking at the ESG and looking at what you're doing. So I think it is so important. And Carrie, I wanted to ask you about accessibility. Like, when did you first move into accessibility? And would you explain to our listeners what a director of accessibility does? What does that mean? What is a chief accessibility director?

Sure, absolutely. So I stepped into my role back in 2022 as PNC's Accessibility Director, but prior to that, I had spent a decade as a leader in PNC's disability awareness employee business resource groups. Some of your listeners, if you work for corporations or even government organizations, you may have resource groups So I kind of cut my teeth there, I would say, or frankly, even being a parent, if you want to go back further than that, be starting my advocacy. But I've worked closely over the last decade at PNC sort of on the side with a focus on accessibility, was delighted to move into this space in 2022. And so in my current role, I lead our strategy, I lead our strategy and support our execution to ensure that PNC accessible to our employees and customers. And so, but, you know, what somebody in my role might do, or, you know, at times you'll hear a term Chief Accessibility Officer, and that will vary from organization to organization. But I think what's so important, which, yeah, I'll kind of continue to pound this nail, is to have a holistic and integrated view of accessibility. And that means having it integrated into the culture, into your talent practices, into your processes, into your technology, into the physical space, and into the company's goods and services. So you won't likely find sort of one person that has organizational responsibilities over all of those activities, but you've got to have an accessibility strategy, Joyce Bender, that encompasses them. Accomplish them all, accomplish all of those. And in my role, I've got to have a clear understanding of where our progress is at on all of those fronts and what opportunities we have that lie in front of us. And so one of the things that I'm really proud of that we've created at PNC is an accessibility framework where we have stakeholders who are responsible for executing the various elements of our strategy really come together and to help ensure alignment and progress, to ensure that we're all rowing in the same direction and at the same cadence.

Well, when you're an accessibility officer, Carrie, do you work across the corporation, right? You work with different officers. Absolutely. Okay, and what does accessibility mean? What does that mean? Is that just for people who are blind or just for people who are deaf? What, what do companies look at? What do they define as accessibility?

So when I think about accessibility, Joyce Bender, we're looking at it relative to persons with disabilities. It's to ensure that we are accessible so that if somebody, if an employee, think about processes, if they want to become a candidate, if they want to become a customer of ours, that they should have an experience that's comparable, maybe different, but a comparable experience as anybody else would have. One of the features that's so important, I know you are very familiar with this concept of universal design, right? You design with everybody in mind, and then when you do that, it fits all people. And so, again, as I'm sure you're aware, so many things that were initially designed for folks that have disabilities are now ubiquitous. I mean, they're in use everywhere, from closed captioning to the curb cuts. So you think about curb cuts that were done, you know, for folks with wheelchairs, and now, you know, any parent that is pushing a stroller takes advantage of those curb cuts, or folks who have roller bags. And here's the real neat thing about curb cuts is that— and this is what I love about my job is that it's always learning and there's so much nuance. So what I learned here within the last month is that when the curb cuts came out, hey, they were great for persons in wheelchairs, but if somebody was blind or had low vision, the fact that those curb cuts were smooth created a problem because they could walk right off the curb. Now, with their input, I encourage listeners next time, you know, depending where you are, if you see a curb cut, if you see these little tactile features, those were added to help persons who are blind or with low vision. But it shows how something was built for one community, somebody else saw it, iterated, and then just improved it. And so, to me, that's sort of just a microcosm of what accessibility is all about.

Well, it's so— you know what, I'm going to give you an example. In D.C., the American Association of People with Disabilities, talk about universal design. Everyone can get in the front door. You know, there are no steps, no zebra, the ramp is right there. Everyone can get in the front door. And when you walk in there, everything is made accessible It's universal design. And you know what? That makes such a difference, and it's so welcoming to the disability community. I think it's really such an important and smart move for corporations to make. And I wonder, in your opinion, why do you think it is— I gave you my view. Why do you think companies need to better utilize accessibility standards and policies?

Well, again, because you're being inclusive. You're not excluding anyone. And so, you and I both know this. I mean, there's a strong economic case to be made if companies aren't, you know, different organizations may have different motivators. But for-profit companies, they're in business for profit. And I think sometimes that the economic case that undergirds accessibility may not be championed enough. But you and I both know that there is a very strong and compelling case there. When you think about just the sheer number of persons globally and here in the U.S. that have— that are persons with disabilities that need to procure goods and services just like everybody else. So if nothing else, that's a very— that ought to be a very strong motivator. Why I think that doesn't happen is, again, is I think maybe folks haven't embraced that. I think that there may be some concern around, hey, they think it's going to cost a significant amount of money. Maybe just a lack of knowledge, not understanding. But I tell you what, Joyce Bender, I'll harken back to the comment I made about the coming wave, is that I think accessibility is going to become table stakes. I think if companies want consumers, clients, businesses, accessibility is going to need to be part of that.

Yeah, I do too. It is very, you know, almost shocking to me when you talk to companies and they're sort of like, well, yeah, we're going to do this, or yes, we want to do that. I'm thinking, what do you mean you want to do that? You know, to me, that's the Americans with Disabilities Act. Everyone should be able to come in. Everyone should be able to go into a building. Everyone should be able to go on the website, and everyone, after they go on the website, should be able to go to the career page and apply for a job. So I'm excited to see that day coming because it's, as Jenny Lay-Flurry says, if you talk to someone, and people do say this to me, Well, we have an accessibility team and I'm pretty sure we're accessible. Then they aren't.

Yeah, I've heard Jenny make that statement myself directly. Absolutely.

Yeah. And you know what? How true that is, because it would be a resounding yes across the board with the confidence of Kerry when he's talking here about accessibility. And as I said, everyone has to get in the door. When Eve Hill, who is now the chair of the board of the Bazelon Center on Mental Health Law, was in the Justice Department as an Obama appointee, she spoke at the White House, and I was there, and she said, "Don't tell me you want to hire people with disabilities." if we can't get to your career page. So don't say you want to if we can't get there. And with that, hey, it's time for our half hour on the half hour news break. And as I've told many of you, Perry Jude is Radesik, our 6-year-plus newscaster. Is, uh, out for a few weeks. She'll be back. Perry is the CEO of Disability Rights Pennsylvania for the entire state, but I always say, oh no, that's your second job. You're really newscaster for Disability Matters, which of course she does this pro bono and just does a tremendous job for me. But we have a tremendous person that in her place is ready to provide the news. Uh, Gerald Haume, are you on the line?

I am on the line. Hi Joyce.

Hi Gerald, how are you today?

I am doing great, and hello Kerry, my friend.

Hello Gerald, how are you?

I am wonderful. Thank you for all that you're continuing to do for our community, and I'll have to tell you about what's going on music since you are, uh, my friend with the same eclectic music taste that I have.

So, I want to catch up. You've come across my mind recently, so yes, we'll definitely need to catch up on that front.

It sounds great. Well, I've got some news today, and for Bender, this is a topic that's always on our mind, and that is the employment of people with disabilities because our crusade here started from Joyce Bender, is the competitive employment of people with disabilities, what myself, my team, and all of us here will continue to fight for until people with disabilities have the same opportunity as everyone else in this country to be included and to live the American dream that comes with competitive employment. From the Office of Disability and Employment Policy, ODEP, We have the latest statistics from January of 2024 for individuals who are over the age of 16, and the labor force participation rate of people with disabilities today is only at 24.5%.

Only 24.5%. Oh my goodness, that's terrible, Gerald. That's worse. That's, that's, that's on the— I'm talking about ODEP statistics. That's, that is— I don't think I've seen it that low for years. I, I did— that's like 75%, 75.5, something like that. Do you know what I mean, Carrie? You know how you always hear me say 70% of people with disabilities are not counted? In the workforce, right? According to the— this just came out from the Office of Disability Employment Policy. Every day, folks, Department of Labor has the Office of Disability Employment Policy. If you go to their website, every single day they have the work participation rates on their front page. I can't remember the last time really that I saw them so terrible. Was there any comments made about this, Gerald, as to why it is like that?

I haven't seen any as of yet. This just shocked me to my core when I saw this latest this morning, the, the news of the current participation rate. Um, along with that The unemployment rate for people with disabilities is 6.6%. So those are the two current statistics for our population. I put in perspective for people without disabilities, the participation rate is 67.6%. Almost the inverse. Wow.

So we have a long way to go.

To fight this fight. So, sir, all of you listening to this show, keep fighting this fight, supporting Joyce, her mission, and the employment of people with disabilities.

Gerald, thank you. I'm sorry to hear that news, but thank you, uh, for keeping us on target, and we will look forward to hearing the news from you next week.

All right, have a great day, everyone.

Lead on!

Thank you. Boy, Kerry, that doesn't make me happy.

Uh, it underscores the opportunity, right? Um, so it's individual that needs to be applied. So for sure, I was hopeful.

I think what, what, what does it take? I mean, why is this? Although I say to people all the time, if I come to your company How many wheelchairs will I see? How many people using a speech device? How many service dogs? Why aren't there? What is it? As Russ Owen, who was the president of DXC Technologies, would say, is your parking lot accessibility parking spaces field. What's, what's going on there? Well, hey listeners, you heard it. I need you. I need you to support my work. Go to benderconsult.com. Tell everyone you know that's looking for a job, refer them to me, but also tell every company, get the news out that we matter, we count. As I said, where the rubber meets the road is employment. That is where the rubber meets the road. Carrie, I want to thank you for being one of those people that has been so supportive of my work from the beginning and still is. And one person, one person can make a difference. So Carrie, Accessibility, let's talk about WCAG 2.2. Could you explain first to our listeners what is WCAG? What is it and why is that important?

Absolutely. So, so what WCAG is, is an acronym and it's WCAG and it stands for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines. And so what these are, these are guidelines about how to make the web more accessible for people with disabilities. So I think the first thing that people sort of immediately think about are folks that, that might be blind or have low vision, but it's really much more expansive than that. It also includes auditory, physical, speech, cognitive, language, and neurological disabilities. And so these guidelines are published by something that's called W3C, which is a worldwide a worldwide consortium, and it's an international, as the name would imply, an international organization. And these are guidelines that really provide a common framework for accessibility for organizations. So whether you're talking to somebody in the United States, Indonesia, Brazil, wherever it might be, these standards are international. And why they're important And if you think about just the amount of commerce that's done online, digitally, on websites, on mobile phones, if digital content isn't accessible, then you're shutting out persons with disabilities. It has to be accessible as more and more businesses business is done this way, this sharing of information, it's really, it's an imperative. So it is important. These guidelines undergo revision from time to time. And so I believe the 2.2 are the latest that have just come out, but they'll be, from what I understand, they're already working on 3.0. And so it's just a matter of continuing to look at additional opportunities to make the content accessible for all.

Wow, it's so important. You know what, once again, a lot of companies don't seem totally understanding of this. And that's why I wanted to say, every business person anywhere in the world listening to this call, this radio show, remember, it's on demand, you can go to Spotify, you can go to Apple, benderconsult.com, voiceamerica.com, almost all social media venues. Listen to this show. You should share this podcast. Share this podcast because we gotta let everyone know how important this is. And you know, Carrie, I already talked to you about this. I don't know what you think about this. I think the reason companies are so loxodazicol is I don't think they've been educated to understand. I mean, obviously at P&C you are, but at some companies, and we'll say middle-sized companies, I don't think the business case has been presented. What do you think?

I tell you what, there's always an opportunity to promote that awareness. That is very much part and parcel what we do. But certainly it goes beyond awareness. So we have a theme that goes from awareness to activation. And, and there is a lot of folks out there that just simply do not know. And so while we activate, we are also very much intentionally educating as well. So we do both simultaneously. We've rolled out robust training for our folks. One of the things that's so key, Joyce Bender, you know, I'll go back to, you mentioned Jenny's comment about people saying, well, we have an office and we think we're accessible. What's important in any organization is if I own a particular process, me as that process owner, I need to know whether I'm accessible and know how to make it accessible. So I shouldn't be relying upon a third party, even within my own organization. If I'm a product owner, then I need to understand the state of readiness for that product, whether it's accessible or not. But there's still a huge educational opportunity that's out there. I think that will always be the case.

I do too. I think it always will be also. Do you believe— we just talked about low employment. Carrie, do you believe that that has possibly lack of accessibility, the impact on this low employment of Americans with disabilities?

Absolutely. One hand washes the other, Joyce Bender. And so, you know, I know that we talked about it a bit earlier when Gerald was on, right, your passion and your life's work focused on providing employment opportunities, living wage employment opportunities for folks with disabilities. And When you do that, you may not have everything perfect, but you will learn. So hiring persons with disabilities, one of the things I like to say is that persons with disabilities are the original life hackers. People talk about hacking different things, life hacking. Well, think about you're born into a world, you're navigating systems that weren't designed for you in mind necessarily. You've got to be creative. You've got to be tenacious. You've got to figure out how things work. And what company wouldn't want employees with those types of attributes? And then here's the thing. If I'm a person with a disability, I have insights that can't be necessarily gained otherwise. I know how I might be engaging with technology. And not only that, guess what, I know how a customer with a disability of a similar type might also be engaging as well. And so your eyes will be open to the extent that you bring on persons with disabilities. They will point out things, you know, as employees, they will point out things to opportunities. And don't be afraid to do that. You're not going to get it perfect out of the gate, but that's where you start. One of the things my team— I say this a lot, they get tired of hearing it— I say the road to accessibility will always be under construction. We will never have fully achieved, but we've got to be diligent and working on that road.

Yeah, I love that. That is a great saying and so true. Yes, well, we've been talking to Carrie Stith Joyce Bender, the Senior Vice President and Accessibility Director at PNC. We're going to go to a commercial break and we'll be right back. Don't go away.

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Since 1985, Bender Consulting Services has served as a national leader in advancing employment of people with disabilities, including veterans with disabilities, with private sector companies and federal government agencies. Bender assists customers with achieving their diversity diversity and workforce inclusion initiatives by tapping into a talent pool of individuals seeking professional positions, including those in the STEM fields. In addition, Bender Services include disability employment consulting, training, and technology accessibility through their high-tech line of service. For more information, please visit www.benderconsult.com.

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At Highmark, we believe what makes us different makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster diverse skills which complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition by the USBLN and the American Association of People with Disabilities as a 2014 Disability Equality Index Best Place to Work. So we'll continue to celebrate diverse individuals Because inclusion benefits us all. To find out more, visit Highmark.com.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, Call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. We're talking to Carrie Stith, Senior Vice President, Accessibility Director, and Disability Rights Leader at PNC. Always a pleasure to be with Carrie Stith. So Carrie, I don't even know how you'll answer this. You've done so many things over the past years, but this past year at work and in your personal life, what would you consider your greatest accomplishment?

So when I think professionally, Joyce Bender, over the past year, and I'm glad you bracketed down to just the year, I would go back to the framework that I mentioned earlier about addressing accessibility holistically. Again, I think that's so important. And it really just helps to— I would advocate, I would suggest that for any organization. I mean, we talked a little bit about burnout earlier. And so, if somebody feels like, hey, I'm kind of off doing this by myself in one group, and somebody is like, hey, I'm off kind of doing this by myself, just by virtue of having those parties come together and dialogue, you know, that's empowering. And so, you know, so just creating that framework, I think, for us has just been something that's been important. I touched a little bit earlier too about promoting accessibility and keeping it top of mind. And so we put out communication on a recurring basis. Everywhere people look, they're going to see something about accessibility. Because one of the things about accessibility, Joyce, is that it's got to get embedded in the culture. I mean, you could have a centralized accessibility team of hundreds of people, but they're not going to be everywhere. And so I always like to make the analogy with accessibility, the focus that is on accessibility is the same focus that many companies might put on security, cybersecurity, and threats. Companies have policies and practices, but it's dependent upon the individual employee to be vigilant. So it's dependent upon that individual employee to not click on that suspicious email link. And that's where we really need to get with accessibility, for people to be so educated about it and aware about it, that they just see accessibility and also see where we're not being accessible. So that's kind of on the professional side. But personally, it's been a busy year, but try to get away a bit more. So just, I'll say, mini vacations, checked off something off of the bucket list, had the chance to go to the Grand Canyon. I'd never been before, so that was delightful. And I'm also delighted that, you know, all things going well, by the end of this year that I will have completed my Master's of Divinity degree. It's been a long time in the works, 7 years, and so I should have that— been going part-time, but should have that wrapped up here by the end of the year. So— So, just a few of the things for me that are personal professional highlights of the past year.

Wow, that is great. Where did you say you're going to get that Master's of Divinity, Kerry?

Regent University. So, I'm going— I've never visited the campus, ironically. I'm going online. But whenever I do graduate, I will make the trip there to be able to actually attend in person to graduate.

Boy, that is really awesome. Congratulations to you. And you know, Carrie, you are, you are always so kind and helpful. And by the way, Carrie is on my Bender Advisory Board with Dora Bush, Ted Kennedy Jr., uh, Tony Coelho, and many other, uh, executives in the Pittsburgh across, not just in Pittsburgh, across the United States. But Gary, I wanted to ask you, who do you attribute to you being the way you are? You know, like a role model, who would you give credit to for that?

Well, it starts with, it starts with my parents first and foremost. My parents were both had servant hearts. I know that you're familiar with the term servant leaders, and that's the way they just approach life, even with their families. I saw how they led within their, their broader families, the roles that they play. So that's where it starts, and that was something— I'll give you a really quick example. This is highlight my father. We're talking just a Black History Month. So, my education has always been something that is important in my family, particularly my father's family. So, his maternal great-grandparents, both grandfather and grandmother, were college graduates, the first generation after slavery, which is pretty remarkable. So, my great-grandfather has a, has a thesis that is on file today at Virginia Union University. But that was implanted in him. He was a child of the Depression. He did not get the opportunity to go to school. He was the old, you know, to go on beyond high school. But he paid for, helped to pay for the education of several of his siblings. So it's lessons like that that stick with you. Um, that's, uh, that's where it starts.

So, uh, wow, what a story that is. Yeah, yeah, paying it forward, paying it forward. Uh, what else were you going to say?

Certainly, yeah, certainly, you know, uh, as a person of faith, my, my faith informs and undergirds everything that I do. And so, I try to reflect that in what I do in my interaction with people to try to be a net positive, right? To try to leave situations better than I found them.

Yes. Well, I am also. And wouldn't it be a great world if everyone followed "love your neighbor as yourself"? Wow. What a change that would make. I always say, when Jesus was talking, and Moses— people don't know, it's also in the Torah— but, "Love your neighbor as yourself," with no edits. So, as I said, if people would follow that, what a world it would be. A better world it would be. So, Cary, what message do you want to leave with our listeners today?

I'll just reiterate what I said a bit earlier. Don't be afraid to hire persons with disabilities. You're probably not good. You know what, nobody gets this right, right out of the gate. You're always in constant editing and adjusting, but start, and you'll be surprised what can occur, delighted in ways that you would have never imagined.

Yes, that is so true, and it will make a difference. It's the best thing you can do, because when you hire a person with a disability, you give them something that is a treasure, and that is freedom. Freedom to buy a car, freedom to live the American dream. When you hire them, and it is the same around the world. Cary, thank you so much for being with us today.

Joyce, again, my great pleasure, always a pleasure to engage with you and, as you say, the Bender family, because it really is a family.

If anybody's interacted with you, I'm delighted to have you, and you are part of the Bender family. Hey everyone, we're getting ready to go. I got to tell you about next week. It is going to be a serious, yet at the end hopeful call as we have a rabbi on talking about the shooting, the massacre at the Tree of Life synagogue. Make sure you tell everyone about that. This is Joyce Bender. America's Voice. And when we're talking about how hard it is for people with disabilities to gain employment, here we have my quote for the day: "If there is no struggle, there is no progress," said Frederick Douglass. Talk to everyone next week, and in the words of Mary Brocker, When you go out today, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.