Mary Mercer-Amy Smith: Ministry at North Way Christian Community

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And welcome to the show everyone. How are you? I hope everyone's doing great in the United States. And around the world and in the United States. I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving and did not go into a turkey overload, but hey, that's what Thanksgiving's all about, right? I wanna first have a shout out to my friends around the world, starting with Richard Roberts. Oh my goodness, Richard's gonna visit me in the United States in December. Richard Roberts, with the U.S. State Department and diplomat in now Brazil at the embassy, is a great friend of mine. I first met him in South Korea when I visited there, then on to Japan, and now I will hopefully be seeing him next year in Brazil. And I want to tell you, Richard is a disability rights leader. He is awesome. I love you, Richard. And Gang Young, Gang Young Cho in South Korea. Gang Young, I hope you're doing great, you and your family. Thank you for sending the photographs. It is always great to hear from you. Cheryl Harris, who was in Tunisia and Libya, and now I have Cheryl right here in the United States at the U.S. State Department. And Cheryl, I love you, always great to talk to you. And Venyamin, Venyamin in Kazakhstan, always thinking about you, Venyamin. I want to tell all of you, the U.S. State Department, if it weren't for them, I wouldn't be going to all these countries talking about the employment of people with disabilities. So keep that in mind, what they're doing for the disability community. And I just I just have to read off listeners from these great countries, which are Ireland, Germany, Korea, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, South Africa, Japan, Russia, Canada, China, New Zealand, and Taiwan. How about that? Now, in some of those countries— Russia, there only may be one person, one listener that shows up on our data. But I just want to tell you, in other countries this happens no matter where you are. If it's one person, five people, doesn't matter. You can change so much just by letting other people know about this radio show, and you can help other people learn that they have a disability, but they count. And Yoshiko, Yoshiko Dart, how are you? Special shout out to you, Yoshiko. I hope you're doing well. And my great sponsor, Highmark. What a great, great company they are. They've been the lead sponsor of this show. And next year is, guess what, my 20th anniversary. And you know who I have to thank for that? All of you listeners, all of you listeners that are also on a crusade to help people with disabilities around the world gain quality of life through employment. So I must tell you, I am so excited about this show today. I am so excited, and I don't even have to be with the two guests to know they have a big smile on their face right now, but I love them. And they are great women, great leaders. And I just was so excited to have them on the show today. And that would be Mary Mercer, ministry leader, writer, speaker, and a spiritual leader at Northway. And Amy Smith, who is the worship director. And you are going to think she was on The Voice in a little bit. And she is also with Northway Christian Community. And she is awesome. They both are. And I have a little present for you toward the end of the show, so do not go away because you are going to hear from Amy and you are going to say, "Oh my God, where do I buy an album?" That is what you are going to say. We are going to start right now with these two wonderful guests. They are both leaders at Northway Christian Community, and I believe they are great examples of women who serve, but also women that set the stage for other women that want to go in the ministry, you know, no matter what type of church they serve in or denomination. I believe they are that example that you can be the leader and you can change lives. And that is why I am so thrilled to have them. So, I am going to start with you, Mary. Mercer, uh, across the world. You know, there are people, of course, they don't know you or Amy, uh, and so I like them to know, well, wait a minute, who is that Mary Mercer? So let's start with that great city— you notice I said great city— that you grew up in, and then what did you do after that? You know, what did you do to further your education after that?

Okay, first of all, on behalf of Amy and myself, we want to thank you, Joyce, for having us today. And we're so excited. We, we get to go to church with Joyce, and we get to have friendship with her. So we are seeing her from a little bit of another side, but it's amazing to, to be friends with you and just to do life together. So we're excited to be here. Um, yeah, so I grew up in the same, um, hometown as Joyce Bender, right?

So we both— that's why I said Great city. That's why I say great city.

That's right, great city, and, uh, full of all kinds of awesome ethnic people. We just love everybody in Newcastle. But, um, you know, I didn't stay there, right? So I grew up in a strong Catholic family, and that was, that was sort of always talked about around the dinner table— Italian Catholics. And, um, we loved God from the very beginning. But, you know, as I was growing and beginning to own my own faith journey, I was challenged by some people of other different faiths to sort of, you know, lean in and figure out what I actually believed. And that's when I began reading the Bible, and, um, gosh, I fell in love with the Bible and began to become a student of the Bible on my own. And in the meantime, I was at Duquesne University studying education and English, and I was going to plan on being a teacher at the college level. And so I had applied for different graduate programs and was ready to go on to to Penn State, and lo and behold, God just kind of got a hold of my heart and drew me into a deeper walk with him and ministry. And I kind of pivoted at that time, went to Franciscan University of Steubenville, which is a Catholic school, and began to study theology and got my master's there. So, all the while, my gifting sort of is in the area of teaching and writing and all of that, but I took a bit of a different track when I had a couple kids. After we— Tim and I got married. And, you know, I have been all over it, Joyce. I have been an entrepreneur. I have been in ministry. I am a writer, a teacher, all of those things. So, yeah, that is— that is a little bit of my story, if that helps.

Wow! Wow! You have got quite the story there. And let me tell you, she is a great writer. I know, because she was involved with that book we are using, At the church revealed. Wow, so good. I will talk about that a little bit later, but I just want to say what Amy told you— I mean, what Mary told you about Newcastle. You go to one part of Newcastle where Croton is, and it is like Italian, hardcore Italian. And then we are absolutely the hot dog capital of the world. Seems that no matter where you are going, you see that. But you know what? That chili on those hot dogs is sold throughout the world. Did you know that? Yeah, they send that throughout the world. Best hot dogs right there in Newcastle. Not to mention, I've got to give Sonny's a plug. Really great restaurant in Newcastle.

My cousins own the best restaurant in town.

There, you heard it from us. You heard it from me. And then we have with us today Amy, and I said to Amy the other day, she must have started singing the day she was born, but I just want to tell you, years ago at Northway, we're sitting there and this young woman comes out and starts singing and we all turned to each other and say, "Man, where'd they get her? Where did she come from?" Because she is absolutely so good. That she sang at the All-Star Game in Pittsburgh. I still remember. Yeah, Amy, Amy got to sing at the All-Star Game. No surprise to me that she would sing at the All-Star Game. I am going to ask you about that in a minute. But where did you grow up, Amy, and when did you decide you were going to have a career as a worship leader and a vocalist? You know, and did you know as you were growing up that you had this really beautiful, special voice and gift?

Ah, Joyce, thank you so much. You are such an encourager. Like, whenever, whenever I want to feel good, I always just think about the just wonderful things that you say, and I just am so grateful for your encouragement and just your encouragement also just when I'm leading worship and on the platform and looking out and, you know, just seeing you so engaged. And, you know, I just really echo what Mary says. It's just what a pleasure to, you know, to know you and to get to just serve the Lord with you and go to church with you. And, you know, it's funny, I did always have a love for music growing up. And my mom said literally from the time I could speak, I was always kind of walking around whistling and singing and I sang my first kind of solo in church when I was 4, and I always had a musical gift. I always, yeah, my mom had me sing with her. I grew up in a real small town in Oregon on the West Coast of the United States, and she, my mom sang in church a lot, and they had a mother-daughter banquet, and she had me sing with her. And, you know, so I I don't know that I knew I had a gift. My mom recognized it and always encouraged it. But I always just knew I loved Jesus. I loved, you know, singing to Him. I loved, you know, writing songs. I loved anything to do with music. But when I was growing up, there really wasn't worship leading that was, you know, that was something that was like a career path. And to be honest, the last place I wanted to work at was a church, and I was always involved in music. But then there was a period of time where I just, you know, I just really kind of didn't want anything to do with it. And I think it was just some things that I was going through in my life, and I, you know, I kind of backed away from it. I went to school. I studied English. I loved to travel. I loved languages. I studied languages as well. There was always kind of this peace in me that I felt like music was drawing me, you know, kind of drawing me toward it. And I knew there was this desire. So I did start writing. I did kind of start pursuing another avenue of like, you know, whether it was— it's called contemporary Christian music, like writing songs. And I got to kind of a certain point where I had some recognition, but there was just— it just didn't quite feel right. So I kind of took some twists and turns, and there was just a point that God really got a hold of my heart and made it very clear that I was supposed to be using my gifts for His glory. And I just started kind of taking one step after the other, following where He was leading. And I'll tell you, one of the first times I had the opportunity to understand what leading worship was, it was like— I still remember where I was. And I was actually on a mission trip in Thailand, and I felt the Spirit of God just fall on me, and it was just so clear that that is what God had called me to do. And my mom, all along the way, would encourage me and sort of brought that gifting out of me. And it took me, it took me a little while to really understand the responsibility of using that gift for God's glory, but He was so faithful to just lead me where I was supposed to go, and I'm so grateful for that.

Wow. I, you know, what a blessing you are. I have to tell you something, Amy. When I first was growing up, Andre Crouch and the Disciples, people thought this was almost blasphemous, this fast music, singing this fast music. And by the way, I still love Andre Crouch and the Disciples through it all, and my tribute, what great songs they are. That seemed like wild to people then. Larry Norman and Phil Cakey, you know, when this— when the contemporary music started, many churches, oh my goodness, like you could not sing any of this because they thought this was so wild and out there. And so I'm— we were used to hymns, and when we came to Northway in the year, I think it was 2000 or 2001, and you all were singing this music. We were there, "What is this? What is this music?" Love that music. Love, love the music. You cannot believe how great this worship service is at Northway. It is unbelievable. I mean, it is like you are going to a concert. It is just fabulous. And Amy, you did sing at the All-Star Game. How the heck did that happen?

Well, you know, it was so— it was crazy. It was one of those things that they had an artist scheduled, and it was a— and I don't think— I don't remember if it was Carrie Underwood, or it was somebody like that, that they were scheduled to come and sing the Star-Spangled Banner, and they had gotten sick, and it was the day before. And there was a— there was a guy at our church who was— I think he worked for the Pirates, and he had said, hey, there's a girl at my church that I think could do this. I mean, I think she would be willing to if you want to give her a call. So they gave me a call out of the blue and they said, "Hey, can you be down here to audition for the commissioner and see if this is something that we would have you do?" So I had like an hour to get ready. I went down there, they had me stand on the field and the commissioner was kind of way up. I didn't even meet him or see him. And they had me stand out there and, you know, sing it through. And then they said, you know, "Can you do it again this way?"— and I sang it the way they had asked, and then they said, "Okay, you got it. You need to be here tomorrow at," you know, whatever time, and they gave me all the details, and then I had to time it with the jets flying over. So they walked me through all the steps, and I didn't sleep a wink the night before, and I got to the field, and it was packed with— I think there were like 60,000 people there. There were people in the river, and I sang, and you know, it was one of those moments where it was like either you do or die. And praise the Lord, I did it, and He stepped in and helped me. And it was— I mean, it was really one of the top 10 experiences of my life. So it was really, really neat.

Oh, I cannot imagine. You know, there are two pirate fans in the United States: Joyce Bender and Pastor Scott Stephens. But I mean, I love— I love the Pirates. I'm one of those true fans. But the All-Star Game, that's, that's like the World Series. I mean, it's at it, as you said, an unbelievable level. You have all the team and all the famous players there. Oh yeah, all the teams. And when you went out there, you weren't nervous?

Oh, I was so nervous.

I mean, I was like shaking in my, shaking in my shoes, but I mean, I walked out and, you know, I just had a peace come over me. And, you know, I did it and it was just amazing. And the jets flew over at the end. And, you know, I knew I had people out there, you know, supporting me and encouraging me. But, yeah, I was— oh, I was so nervous. And you can't really hear very well. And, you know, it was really an amazing experience. It was so fun.

Oh wow, I mean, you realize how many people heard you, not just there. Yeah, I mean, that's broadcast around the world. You sang in front of a lot of people. Yeah, well, that's— yes, I did. That is— that is— I, I knew, we all knew. Uh, did you notice it only took one audition? Amy Smith, best singer in America. Do you notice that? Yeah. Okay, yeah, Mary, Mary, you are a leader in the church, but as we said earlier, you are also an author. But I knew you were a great writer, uh, but the book we're using, Revealed, is based on the Old Testament, and that is hard. You know, I was telling someone when I was growing up, here's what I would do: I would pray to two people. First to Jesus, and then I would say, "Please help me with the Father." Because I picture in my mind this man, like, with a white beard, you know, fire coming out of him, the scary one, the mean one, and then Jesus, so nice. I mean, when I was real little, that's how I pictured it. Because the old— now, of course, I know there's one God, but in the Old Testament, It is scary to a lot of people. You know, it is scary. But I know people, they do not read the Old Testament. As a matter of fact, you know, they sell the New Testament at all the bookstores, and there are many people, that is all they read, the New Testament. So I cannot imagine how much research you had to do when I was reading that. But what was that like for you? Writing Revealed? Wow, it was a blast.

First of all, it was a fun, fun labor of love. Let's just say that. But I've had some experience in writing, right? So I did several books early on in my life as a ghostwriter for Thomas Nelson Publishing in Nashville and just different things. So I was used to the process of how to put together something like that and, um, and do the editing. But we had a team of very— we were all kind of rookies in that space though of writing a study. We've never done that. And We just asked the Lord, to be honest, like, "Okay, Holy Spirit, we need some help." But we all love the whole story of God, and that is what, like, as you say, many people just think about Jesus as the beginning of the story, and the Christmas story, and when he is born in the manger, and all of that. But the story goes way back from the beginning, and Jesus has been present in that story from the very beginning. And that is the story we wanted to tell. We wanted people to understand that there may be some depth and some —details in the Old Testament that are hard to grasp, all of it. But we wanted to grab the thread of how we find Jesus from the very beginning at creation and all the way through the story to show and reveal a God who has loved us and chased after us for relationship with him from the very beginning. And, you know, we often use the phrase, "Jesus is concealed in the Old Testament and then fully revealed." in the New Testament. So, we were sort of building the story all the way from the Garden of Eden, through the fall of man and woman, all the way through the patriarchs and the, you know, the Red Sea event that everyone knows about where they were— the people of God were taken out of Egypt and their slavery, and they're moved into the Promised Land. And all of that movement in the beginning of a nation, and how they had kings and prophets, and now we ended it with how does Jesus fulfill all of those prophetic things in that story. In the New Testament stuff that we read. So, it was a blast doing it. It was, yes, a lot of research. A lot went into that. But we have a great team here of several of us that were writing. We have an incredible creative team that put the thing together and made it look like a beautiful book. And we had it printed outside house, but everything else was done here at Northway. And so, I'm just blessed that people can take some writing and make it look beautiful. Put it together in such a way. But yes, I hope in the end that people walk away being able to tell the story of God and how they then themselves fit into that amazing story where God has purpose for each of us that he created from before the foundation of the earth. He has got something for each of us to do. And how do we fit into the bigger story is kind of what our hope was. So, I do not know. Does that help? Oh, yes.

And I will tell you, the late Governor Thornburgh, his wife, Ginny, Ginny worked for the American Association of People with Disabilities that at one time I was the chair of the board. And she was over the faith part. And this was, you know, all different denominations. But trying to explain faith to different people. So, I have a little funny story to tell you. I want us to have interpreters at Northway. I want captioning at Northway. Why? I am hard of hearing. You know, if I was in the back of the church, I would not know what the ministers were saying. So, like, I am really big on this. But we did not even have a sign language interpreter. I would go to Ginny Thornburg and say, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? She said, think of something. Think of a way to get in. So I thought about it, and I did think of a way. Every week on the tithing card where it said "other," I'd make a donation and say, "Sign language interpreters." And I did this so long that I know they had amassed all this money, and wouldn't you know it, they have sign language interpreters. But it is— That's great. You have to include all people. And I am very happy that Pastor Dave D'Angelo talked to me, and I am going to be going out meeting with him about this, these issues, because I want Northway to be a best practice church for people with disabilities. But when you were talking about the Old Testament, the Torah, I was asked to speak at a synagogue for Shabbat by one of my very close friends who is Jewish. And I— here's what we say: we are sisters separated at birth. She's the Jew and I'm the Gentile. But we, we went and she had me speak at this, at the synagogue. And you know who I talked about? Moses. Because I said, here is God. He has to pick someone that will be the person, the person of the Old Testament, the person that led the Israelites out of Egypt. What does he do? He picks someone with a disability. Because, you know, he spoke, he spoke with stuttering lips. And his accommodation was Aaron. Because you remember him saying, "No, no, I cannot, I cannot speak well." And I said, "Is it not amazing that God would choose a person with a disability, and yet people with disabilities are frequently excluded?" Not to mention that Jacob had a limp. But I am on a mission when it comes to this. But boy, the Old Testament, I will talk to my friend, and let me tell you, they know it inside and out because of the Torah. But I love our church, and I know we are going to make it happen. Amy, it does seem effortless for you when you sing all the time. You just walk out there and there you go, this beautiful voice. I always say, "How does that voice come out of that person?" Unbelievable. But what advice do you have for young people right now listening to the show who want to go into worship ministry?

Well, I think, you know, I think the craft and, you know, the actual using of your voice or using of your gift, that, that comes with practice, and that comes with, you know, a certain sense of just, you know, being committed to developing and growing. So, you know, you want to, first and foremost, make sure that you're developing that gift. But really the most important, I think, thing is to develop really a worship language between you and the Lord, and to really spend that time in the quiet place, and to begin to foster a worship language that you have before the Lord, because you can't take people to places where you've never been. Yourself. So I always encourage, you know, someone wanting to get into worship ministry to, to really begin to foster that intimate relationship with the Lord. And then you begin to develop and work on your skill set and get around other people that are like-minded and doing the same kind of thing. And, and then you just begin to really serve wherever God calls you and trust him to open the doors. And, you know, I've learned sort of in my sort of path of God leading me that if I just focused on those things, that He would always be faithful to open the doors for me. And I've never had to really knock on the door and look for a job. He's always just presented those jobs to me, and I've always just been willing to serve, and I've always been willing to just, you know, have my heart soft and tender before the Lord, and He will take what He has given you, and He will turn it, and He will use it for His purposes, in His timing, and in the right way.

Yeah, the only other thing I would add, and you have to be able to sing for that to happen.

This is a very good point. And it is knowing your gifts. It is true. It is really true. And to know, like, you notice I do not lead from an instrument. It's because I play piano, but it isn't for public consumption. I know my limits.

Well, I know my limits, and it's neither one. But you know what? If you're listening to this right now— and by the way, you all know, and thank you so much for all of you listeners that listen on demand, because the show is on Spotify, Apple, Voice America, and of course, BenderConsult.com. So if you're listening, you're thinking, "Oh man, I wish so-and-so heard this show." Oh, they can. Just go on demand. Disability Matters with Joyce Bender is on Spotify. But again, you can go to VoiceAmerica.com. All these shows are on demand and you can share it. With other people, which is such a great part of this. Well, Mary, thanks to you, I got to know about this person who in my life I had never heard of from when I went to Sunday school. But as we've talked about before, cultural changes are happening. Women are becoming leaders in churches, although there are some denominations where they already have been, but not everywhere. And yet in the Bible, there are so many powerful leaders. One is Hulda that I know I had never heard of, and many people probably listening to the show right now, even of the Jewish faith, do not know who I'm talking about. Unless, of course, you visited Israel and got to a certain gate, then you know who I'm talking about. So, Mary, why don't you tell our listeners about Hulda and why she is so highly thought of in Israel that, yes, some of my closer Jewish friends did know when I brought it up who she was.

Yeah, well, she's only mentioned one time in the Bible, but there's, there's a lot of extra biblical— so things that aren't the Bible but tell us a little bit more about her story. But she was a prophetess, right, in the time of King Josiah, and there were a lot of women prophets at the time. That was a kind of a highly sought-after sort of position, but a lot of women filled that role over the years. She was a prophetess at that time, and she basically prophesied of the destruction of Israel, but that King Josiah, who was one of the good kings— there weren't too many good kings in the history of kings of the Jewish people, but he was one— and basically the temple had been destroyed. Josiah finds an old a Torah, an old copy of the Torah, and he realized as he read it that they weren't following the laws of the Torah as God had given to Moses. And so, he needed advice, and he went to the female prophet Hulda. And what's really interesting is Jeremiah, a big prophet, and Zephaniah, one of the other minor prophets, they were at the same time, in the same timeframe as Hulda. But he went to Hulda, and she was very well known as a person who was deeply close to God. She even had a school for women. To learn about the things of God. And basically she prophesied that there was going to be a rough time, but the whole culture would be destroyed, except Josiah would not see it in his lifetime. And because of her prophecy, he went and tore down all of the idols that had made their way into the temple and into the city, into the culture of the nation of Israel. And she— it sparked a whole spiritual revival of the Jewish people. If it weren't for her and her prophecy, that may never have happened. So, she was, you know, she was one of the many. I mean, there is Deborah who was another prophetess and the only female judge of the Bible. You know, she partnered with Barak who was, some say was her husband, was certainly the military leader at the time. And they are a great example of men and women working together for the Kingdom. Just like in the New Testament, we have Priscilla, And Aquila, Priscilla was a great teacher of the word. We have Phoebe, who was a deaconess. We have Lydia, who was a business owner and a leader, probably of the Philippian church, probably in her home. And anytime you had a church in your home, you were basically the leader of that church. You know, there are many— Junia is listed by Paul as a female apostle, the only female apostle in Romans, and she actually spent time in prison for her work. And Paul himself said that she was outstanding among the apostles. So, there's littered through the Bible lots of women leaders that we can look to. In real life.

Yes, and it should be like that everywhere, because I'm always thinking to myself, okay, now wait a minute, Jesus, who did he first appear to? Women. And boy, was he ever a rebel. He was a rebel because during that time, women were like lowest level low level, let alone women that were Samaritan. And to think that he had them with him, you know, when he was, uh, teaching is just unbelievable.

So you see, well, right, one of, one of, uh, one of my favorite characters in the Bible is Mary of Bethany. Not Mary Magdalene, but Mary of Bethany, who was Mary and Martha fame, right? And, and when she says, you know, Martha's going crazy, you know, getting dinner ready, and she says to Jesus, "Hey, Mary's not helping me. She's just hanging out listening to you and talking to everyone." And he says, "Martha, Martha," the famous line, "You are busy about many things, but only one thing is necessary, and Mary has chosen it." Now, what he meant was she was sitting at the feet of Jesus listening, and the only people that did that were people that sat at the feet of the rabbis, were disciples. And they would learn and listen from the rabbi, and they would take that position. So her being in that position was incredible, that Jesus was saying in that she is an equal disciple. She is in the place where heretofore men had gone, but she sort of broke the mold and went— a female disciple sitting at the feet of Jesus. And there are many examples of people like that where Jesus actually elevated the role of women and took them out of that sort of shameful place and restored a dignity to who a woman was in the Bible. And there are many great stories to look to in that way.

Well, I've warned people at our church that if I don't start seeing more women move up, I'm going to start marching around the church. I'm going to have like a little civil rights movement. I'm going to be out there, a civil rights marcher. One of my favorite heroes of all time is Martin Luther King Jr. And you know, when you were talking about the Old Testament before, when we were talking about that, often when he was speaking, because he was often using biblical references, but it included many times the Old Testament. And so many other great leaders do not only talk about the New Testament, but I hope everyone will know that there is an Old Testament and a New Testament, and look at the whole Bible. So, Mary and Amy, I am going to talk to both of you about this, and it is called the well, which Mary started the well. And thank goodness it is always going to be at Northway. Always and forever, the well will be at Northway. So there, you heard it. Mary, I know actually you started it, and I'll bet you got that name from another woman, huh?

Oh yeah, the Woman at the Well. I mean, we gathered a group of people. Amy was involved in the original team of the well and has stayed on that, and we We have felt like women gather at the well, right? This is a good place to talk. And we have had some words that we have sort of, you know, lived by, which is, you know, inspired, connected, known, and refreshed. These are ways that we feel like women needed a place to gather, to be ministered to by women, and to have a place where they could experience some kind of teachings and prayer encounters that we just cannot do on the weekends. It has been super impactful. For a lot of our women to experience the things of God in new and different ways. So we try to be creative. We try to be, you know, go to the deeper places. That is what the Well is, where the deep calls to deep, right? Where we get refreshed in that place. And Amy can probably tell you a little more because she is super involved with the whole Well, too.

What do you think of it?

I love the fact that it is women being led by other women. And I think, you know, Mary and I have experienced this, and you have touched on it a little bit, you know, for so long, for me, I've been in a largely, you know, male-centric ministry with, you know, mostly men in worship ministry, and leading worship, and being led by men, and oftentimes being the only woman sitting in a room of men. And, you know, I sat on our teaching team for years, and I was the only woman in the room. And there's just something very powerful about having that sort of sense of fellowship and community with other women. I think we, you know, we have a sensibility about us. I think that we— there's a connection that we have to the heart of the Father that is different, and that there's— it sort of is feeling a longing, I think, that women have to be connected with other women, and then to be connected to the heart of the Father together. And I just love seeing the gifts come out of other women, and, you know, Mary's always been what is so, so wonderful about, you know, sort of drawing these gifts out and encouraging. But to see women, like, step up and use their spiritual gifts, use their gifts of leadership, use gifts of, you know, hospitality, and to give a platform for women to really explore using their gifts all in the context of growing deeper in their walk with the Lord. It has really been powerful.

It is. It is powerful. And you know, Amy, I promised the listeners a gift. It is time for that. Gift for Christmas. I asked Amy, uh, you know, she's so, so wonderful. I mean, okay, sure. I asked Amy if she would give us a couple refrains of A Christmas Carol for everyone. So Amy, take it away. All right.

Holy night, all is calm, all is bright. Round yonder virgin, mother and child, holy infant so tender and mild. Sleep in heavenly peace. Sleep in heavenly peace. Silent night, holy night. Son of God, Love, Pure Light, Radiant beams from Thy Holy Face with the dawn of redeeming grace. Jesus, Lord, at thy birth. Jesus, Lord, at thy birth. Wow!

Unbelievable! Unbelievable! No music, no nothing. Wow. Okay, you win the voice, Amy. You're the winner. I choose you. You know what though? That was like almost made me cry. You know that? That was such a blessing. So powerful. You know, when I hear you sing, I'm over here, oh no, how's she gonna hit that voice? How is she gonna hit that note? But you hit them all. Yes, you do. Thank you so much, Amy. And this is Amy Smith. Who is the worship leader at Northway. And if you come to Northway, you can hear her. And Amy, do you have a CD yet?

You know, I have a CD from a long, long, long time ago, and then actually Northway has some CDs as well from, from a long time ago, but nothing, nothing recent.

Well, how much you want to bet my listeners are going to say Why doesn't she have a CD now? I mean, Amy, you are so blessed. You are really— God gave you such a gift. And thank you for sharing that with all of our listeners. What did you think about that, Mary?

Well, Amy's amazing. Come on, we all love Amy. And I think one of the things that I'd love to say about Amy is she's far more than an amazing voice. And, you know, just a beautiful person. But she is, to me, one of the leaders that I have looked to who really has, you know, cut the path for women at leadership positions at Northway. And she's been doing this, you know, longer than I have here at this church. And I just want to shout her out for that because, you know, it is hard to be sometimes in a room full of, you know, guys where our church culture heretofore has been led mostly by men, and you hear reflections on the word by men. You have leadership decisions made by men, and you're sitting in those rooms and you're kind of fighting those battles. And I feel like, you know, Amy and Shannon, myself a little bit, you know, have tried to be a little bit of a ship sort of breaking the ice for other women to come along down the way. So, I just want to shout her out for that, honor her for the strength and character and integrity that she carries, as well as an incredible voice. Thanks, Mary.

Oh, thank you. You know, Mary, um, I don't think Amy even knows how beautiful her voice is, but every Sunday when I come in there, first thing I do is look up there. Is Amy up there? Uh, not that I don't like the other singers, they're all very talented, but I said Amy's up there. Come to Northway, you'll hear her. And speaking of worship service, I was at the one the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, and it was so beautiful. But, you know, there was a time way back, way, way back when I remember Pastor Jay Pasivan, who has since passed away, but he would say, okay, why are there all of you that come in at 9:30 or 9:20 thinking, okay, I missed the— I'll just miss that singing part and be here for the message, and you are making a mistake doing that. So, Amy, how do you feel about that? Like, why do you think the worship service is equally important?

Well, you know, I mean, the Bible specifically tells us to worship the Lord. And, you know, we were created and designed to worship Him and to, you know, lavish our affection on Him. And He is really serious about worship. I mean, and He is very serious, you see, all throughout the Bible, of not worshiping other idols, and not giving our worship to others. So, you know, there's that. But worship is, I think, really essential to shifting the atmosphere of our hearts. I mean, there's a softening that takes place that, you know, He inhabits the praises of His people, and that means He comes in, and He rests, and He resides in that praise. Like, He dwells in our worship and in our praise. And then there's something when you encounter His His presence in those moments, and you see Him and He reveals Himself to you, I really believe that it creates a really fertile soil for His Word to then come in and to change and to transform and to make us really more like Him. And there is just something that— there is just something very supernatural that takes place in that worship moment, especially before for the Word, and, you know, I think it is essential, actually, to really learning from his Word.

Oh, I agree. I think that— well, you even sort of preach or have words for the— sometimes you really get going, and I really like that. But you have words for the congregation. Which I think that is important. But I have got to say this: I know there is a lot involved with this. You know, we walk into there and we hear this beautiful singing. And by the way, special shout-out to Pastor Billy Bob White. I really think the world of him also. But you walk into church and there you just all walk out and start singing. It is a little more involved than that, is it not, Amy?

Yeah, it is. And I know, and I've shared this with Marian, and we had talked, when I step out, there is just a lot of prayer and a lot of really, for me, interceding for people in the room, and really trying to just discern what God is doing. And He does give me words, and He does show me pictures of things, and I see things, and it's there's a battle that also takes place for our worship and for our hearts. And, you know, there's a contending that takes place. And, you know, I feel like that's, you know, part of my responsibility as a worship leader and a worship director to kind of fight and contend and to lead people into the presence of the Lord. And it's, you know, and I can say all of the worship directors and all the people that were leading, like, they— we are all like-minded with that. This is really very powerful to be a part of what God does, really, in those moments. And like, you know, this last weekend when, you know, you had said, "I would sometimes really get going," and it really is. I feel just such an empowerment of the Lord, and just to, you know, see Him work, and to move, and to see really His heart for people, and to sense what He is wanting people to know about Him. It is It is very powerful to be a part of.

Yeah, it is. And I know that Mary would agree. Mary, there are— and I know some of them from different denominations— that want to move into the ministry, but they are discouraged. You know, they see it more as a male world. What advice do you have for them if they want, you know, want to go, uh, to seminary or whatever, but they feel like, oh, but I'll never have that opportunity. What advice do you have for them?

Yeah, well, I would— I love the question because I think you're right. There are so many women who have just looked around and seen lots of guys leading, and it feels a little bit defeating, and you're not really sure the road in there. I know growing up Catholic, I thought there's a ceiling for me because, you know, you're not going to be a priest, you're not whatever. So, you know, I did what I could. I, I kind of found my way into that space. But here's what I'd say, you know, leadership is in the church, it's about anointing and calling. It's not about gender. And so I would say, just like Amy had said for, for worship leaders, you've got to find, um, settle in yourself what you believe about not only women in leadership, but women in the church, and what is your specific calling? What has God gifted you to do and asked you to do? So there's a lot of identity issues that are— that happen in women because of the experiences that we've had growing up. And, and maybe there's a lot of women that just don't see themselves as being able to do that, or, or there's fear or whatever. So I would say settle that in yourself first, and then, and then develop your relationship with God deeply. That is the thing. He will open the doors as you begin to listen to Him. And, you know, doors that I did not think would be open for me, to be honest, have opened as I have been obedient, and as I have walked into them. And so, I would say, do not be afraid that there is not a place for you. Settle what you believe about God, and about yourself, and about leadership. And know that there really is no ceiling, but find a church where there is not a ceiling, right? Like, find a place where they are ordaining women as pastors or giving them, you know, some leadership roles that have a bite to them, you know, that actually have substance. And do not go to a place where there is no, you know, there is no upward movement. But I think within yourself, you have to settle it first. Who am I? What is God asking me to do? And are you afraid? Are you not afraid to bravely walk into spaces that that seem like they might be more populated by men, but they are wide open for women in the eyes of God. We just have to be brave enough to walk into those places and be willing to fight a couple battles along the way and know who you are, you know?

Know who you are, yes. Well, Mary and Amy, thank you, thank you, thank you for being with us today. Amy, thank you for sharing your absolutely beautiful voice with us. And I know there are people listening, thinking, "Oh, I would love to hear that worship service or go to that church. Too bad I do not live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania." But you can, because it is livestreamed around the world. So, you go to Facebook, Northway Christian Community, and you can see the service. Is that right? Am I telling them the right thing, Amy?

Amy and Mary, uh, I would probably say go to northway.org/live, and you can pick up all of our online services there. The, the 12, 12, 3, and 7, they'll be streaming live on Christmas Eve, um, and at all of our different campuses. If you live in the Pittsburgh area, you can just check our, our website at northway.org and find out, um, all of the different campuses have different times, but we'd love to see you at Northway. Come and join us for, for Christmas Eve.

Yes, and that is Wexford, Dormont, Beaver, Sewickley, Robinson. Where am I forgetting? There are so many. The city around Oakland. Yes, yes, yes. Um, just go to northway.org if you're in the Pittsburgh area. Uh, all the way to Beaver, there are other, uh, we have other church locations the main one being in Wexford, PA. But what is that website again, Mary, if they want to follow?

It is northway.org/live, but you can get there from our regular website, northway.org. And we also have an app, which is 3 words: North Way Pittsburgh. If you want to download our app, there is a ton of things going on. We have got a 14-day prayer experience beginning January 1st. You can jump in with us and see all of our sermons and content on there. You can even see Revealed on there. You can read, read the book and jump into the study.

See, isn't that great though? No matter where you are, you can join us on Christmas Eve. That is so awesome. Thank you, thank you. I— you two are so awesome. And, and remember, make a donation to Northway. This year. Make a donation. So I end every show with a quote, and this year, Old and New Testament, same quote. Ready? Love your neighbor as yourself, said Jesus. Love your neighbor as yourself. Thank you so much. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice. Where Disability Matters at voiceamerica.com. And in the words of Mary Brooker, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.

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