Mission and Latest Accomplishments of the Bazelon Center

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guests, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And hello everyone, welcome to the show. I hope you are all having a great day. To all of my friends around the world, oh my goodness, I was just looking at all the company countries that listen. And if you listen, it is sent, they get the notice at Voice America. Tell everyone you know to listen, everyone's English-speaking, have them listen. And that would be from Russia to Finland to Morocco to Hong Kong. Oh, so many great listeners I have, as I do in North America and South America, you know. You know what? I can't thank you enough. All of you listeners, you know you're helping us make a difference. You know we are the only place in the world that you can go every single week to get an update on the disability rights news. You know, we don't have CNN or MSNBC, but you can call this— you can listen to this show, Disability Matters with Joyce Bender, and we always have the news. And you know, if you're listening right now on demand rather than live, I want to thank you so much. I, I really do. You are really phenomenal, what you're doing to help increase the listening. So to you, that person listening right now, thank you. And Yoshiko Dart, oh my gosh, a special shout out to you, Yoshiko. Do you know how much I love you? You are so awesome. Um, and I have to thank Highmark for being the sponsor, lead sponsor once again through these years. Highmark, lead sponsor. Thank you, David Holmberg and Karen Hadland. It means so much to me. Oh, and next week, an EVP, Tracy Sala, is going to be on the show. She is Senior Vice President and Chief Product and Experience Officer for Highmark, and she is just an awesome person. She was a CPA at KPMG years ago, and she is just doing a phenomenal job. Next week, Tracy Sala from Highmark. But today I have our ongoing return guest that not only do I love, but that— you know that last show of the year, Holly, that you do with Maria and Perry Jude Radesic, where you review The news of the year. Do you know that? You know what I'm talking about?

I sure do.

One of the most listened to shows still on demand. So, Holly, thank you for being with us today. If you don't know, I'm a woman living with epilepsy and I am a disability rights advocate and I have a for-profit company that focuses on the employment of people with Bender Consults for People with Disabilities, which means if you know anyone with a disability seeking employment, go to benderconsult.com today. Or if you need to hire a person with a disability, benderconsult.com. But I gave you that, that little background so I could add, and I am on the board of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, which I am so honored to be on. I remember when I asked Jen, when she was with you before the Department of Justice— do I have the, the first name right? My mind's going blank here.

Yes, Jennifer Mathis.

Yes, Jennifer Mathis. I love her. She is so smart, so smart. And when I was talking to Jennifer, I said one day, you know what, I'd like to be on that board of Bazelon. What? And that was it. And here I am. And it is an honor to be on the board of Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law. And the website is— Holly, what is the website?

Www.bazelon.org, and I'm going to spell that: www.bazelon.org.

And that website is so awesome, it has so much great news, and there is a donate spot. So if you have time to make a donation Go to that website and you'll see where you can donate and make a donation today. No donation is too small. But you know, right now in this country, we have people with mental health disabilities that are being incarcerated or homeless or unemployed or sadly taking their life. We need so much help. So, basilon.org, make a donation today. So, Holly, it is great to have you with us, and I'm sorry Megan Schuler cannot be with us today because she's at a hearing, but we're very excited to have her on the show another time. Um, can you tell us just a little bit about Megan?

Sure, I'm happy to. So first of all, thank you, Joyce Bender, for inviting me to your show again. Thank you for being such a valuable member of the Baselon Center's Board of Trustees. I'm super happy to be here with you and all your listeners from all over the world. I want to tell you that one time my cousin Mike Field in Massachusetts texted me after your radio show because he'd heard me on it, uh, and he listens to it every week, and I had no idea. And so he was so excited that I was, um, on your show.

So wait a minute, what's his first name? What's his first name?

Michael Field is his.

Michael. Michael, I love my listeners. I love my listeners. So if we're— so you make sure he goes and listens to this on demand. Thank you, Michael. Go ahead. Go ahead.

I will. So, as many of you know, we have a new legal director at the Bazelon Center, and her name is Megan Schuler, and she's actually coming up on her 1-year anniversary. And we have been so lucky that she joined us, and she came to the Bazelon Center from the Department of Justice, where she worked for 12 years in the civil rights division, particularly in the disability rights space. She has a lot of litigation experience, has expertise in the Americans with Disabilities Act, and also has policy experience as well. She has been an excellent addition to our team and is growing the organization into new areas of work, including artificial intelligence, which she has some expertise in. And hopefully when she joins the show, she can talk more about it another time, as this is not my area of expertise.

Wow, you know what, that is— yeah, I can't wait to talk about that because You know, people with disabilities are worried about, for example, on interviews, what is happening with artificial intelligence. So that's good. I'll be very interested in talking to her about that. And congratulations. I know we're also happy to have Megan Schuler on board. And folks, she will have her on in the future. But I wonder, as you noticed, we have new countries. All the time listening to the show. So, Holly, could you talk a little bit about yourself? I know you didn't— you have a short period of time that you worked in the best city of America.

I sure did. I lived and worked and became a Steelers fan living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania from 2006 until 2013.

I— how great is she? She's a Steelers fan. How great is that? And her daughter, her daughter is a true Pittsburgher. There's no doubt about that. So Sloane is my girl. Uh, Holly, how did you end up at Basilon? Like Tell us a little bit about yourself. What got you on this road, this disability rights road? How did that happen?

Yeah, um, I have been at the Bazelon Center for 6 years now, and I joined the Bazelon Center in 2018 because I believed it was an especially important time to be doing advocacy in the United States and to protect people's rights. I was drawn to the Bazelon Center and its focus on mental disabilities because I have spent the majority of my career working in public education, including at the Pittsburgh Public Schools. And the Bazelon Center has a large portfolio of work in education from elementary school through higher ed, even law school, to make sure that people with mental disabilities get the accommodations that they need in order to be successful in school. Additionally, I have a brother, Brendan, who will listen to this. He's at work right now.

Hi, Brendan. —had to say hi to him also. Go ahead.

Hi, Brendan. He has an intellectual disability, and he's 4 years younger than me, and our parents died quite young. And so, we are a brother-sister team, and my parents raised us with many of the same values that the Baselon Center has. And So once I learned about the Baselon Center, learned about the position that was open, I was very excited about it and remain honored that I am able to lead the organization right now.

Well, I just want everyone to know we are so lucky to have Holly O'Donnell because when I joined the board, no offense to anyone involved with the board, But Bazelon was nowhere near to where it is now. And Holly, you have done a phenomenal job. I think so highly of you, but I will say for all people living with mental health disabilities, thank you for what you have done.

Well, thank you. It has been a team effort. I will say that as well.

It has, but you need that leader at the top to make things happen. So speaking about Bazelon, how about for people listening saying, oh, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, what's that? What do they do? How about if you tell, uh, people, you know, starting with where you're located, but the services you provide?

Sure. So the Bazelon Center is located in Washington, D.C., and we do work all over the country. It is the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law. So you might take from that, we are a legal advocacy organization and we are focused on advancing the rights and when necessary protecting the rights of people with mental disabilities. And as I mentioned before, this is in all areas of life for all ages of people. And so what does it mean exactly to be a legal advocacy organization? Well, for the Bazelon Center, it means that we use litigation, public policy advocacy, particularly at the federal level, so on the Hill and also with federal agencies, and we also do technical assistance. To help people with mental disabilities get the supports and services that they need to live in the community. And most of our work is at a high level. So our litigation is, we do class action lawsuits. We do some individual cases, but it really is to push the law forward so that Americans across the country in states can get more services and more support so that they can live full lives in the community. And, you know, I think one thing about— I think it's important to know I'm not a lawyer. But I spend a lot of time working with our lawyers. And one thing that I think they don't always recognize that they're doing, but they can say things that explain the importance of the Bazelon Center and what we do so well in just regular conversations. I say it's when they're like freestyling and I have to like stop them and say, say that again, say that again. And one of the things that our senior counsel, Ira Burnham, who was a longtime legal director for over 30 years here, and luckily has continued to work at the Bazelon Center, he said one time, "Holly, our ideas are pretty simple. Kids should grow up in families and have access to a meaningful education." People should be able to stay in their homes and get services in their communities. People need jobs, just like people who don't have disabilities. That's what we're fighting for.

Yes. And so, when you were talking then, Holly, you do not take on very many individual cases, right?

That's right. There are a lot of organizations that are doing legal aid and private attorneys and doing that type of representation. And so the Bazelon Center is really filling in at a high level the legal advocacy with a deep level of expertise in mental health law. In fact, the organization itself helped create the field of mental health law.

So, so you refer them different places, is that what you mean? What do you do?

Can you repeat that?

Yeah, what do you do if someone calls and says, can you help me, I'm an individual? Do you refer them somewhere or suggest something? What do you do?

So we get, we get all kinds of calls, and these days we get a lot of emails as well. So through our intake line, we do referrals to other organizations, like maybe in somebody's state, the Protection and Advocacy groups. We also have a lot of resources. Sometimes people want to know what their right— as a college student, what their rights are for accommodations. And so actually we can just point them to and send them resources. And so a lot of times we're sharing resources that already exist with people. And there, from time to time, there are cases that we may take. And also, we also get— a lot of intakes. This is really interesting, I didn't know this, but we get a lot of intakes from other, uh, I mean calls from other attorneys, uh, that, that want our advice.

Is that right? How about that? Uh, yeah, that is something. So, um, do you, you handle a lot of these, um, briefs on our own? We don't always partner with other people, correct?

The majority of the time we partner. We partner with like law firms, we partner with other disability rights organizations because we're a pretty small shop. And particularly when we're co-counsel, you know, in a big case, the law firms offer a lot of, support that not just the Bazelon Center but other legal advocacy organizations need.

And, um, like Megan, for example, is she like one of the lead attorneys that goes to court for you, or does everyone go?

Well, um, it depends on, um, the case and the circumstances. But yes, recently she was in Rhode Island for a case, and today she is in D.C., and she is in court today.

Well, I just want to— co-counsel. Okay. I just want all of our listeners to realize how important Bazelon is, because they are fighting sometimes very large cases where people with mental health disabilities are being discriminated against or abused in some way. They really do so much for people with mental health disabilities. So that's why I said go to bazelon.org, B-A-Z-E-L-O-N, and make a donation. I feel very strongly about this because you all know how 3 years ago I lost Mary Brocker, our president, who died in a hiking accident. And Mary lived with clinical depression 40 years, but she loved young people with, with mental health disabilities. She worked so hard to mentor and help them. And in her honor, we created the Mary Brooker Mental Health Initiative. And I know how excited she was, Holly, when I joined the board of Bazelon. So this is very personal to me. I hope you'll take time because I just came back from DC for a Bender Leadership Academy with high school students with disabilities, and many of them have mental health disabilities. And thank goodness we haven't lost any of them to suicide, but that's not the way it is across the board in the United States. So remember, bazelon.org. And right now we're gonna go to break. If you just joined us, we are talking to Holly O'Donnell, President, CEO, and superstar at the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law. I love her. She is just such a great advocate for all of us. And if you're listening now and you think, oh, I wish, I wish this person had heard the show, it's on demand— Spotify, voiceamerica.com, benderconsult.com. Really, almost every social media venue. Go to podcast Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com and you can share the show. And with that, we're going to break. We are talking to Holly O'Donnell and we will be right back. Don't go away.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters.

Here's Joyce Bender. You know what? I wish I had— I wish I had it. I'm gonna have to get this. You know, I need like a little toy trumpet that at times I can play because this next thing— oh, it is so exciting! See, I don't have my da-da-da-da-da-da, but Holly, you have very, very big news for our listeners about a donation Bazelon received. And before you share that news, I just want to tell everyone that says a lot about Basilon. So anyone listening, any sponsors, this says a lot about Basilon. So, um, let's hear it. Take it away, Holly.

Yes, yes, I do, Joyce. I'm so excited to share this, that the Basilon received— Basilon Center received a 2 $2 million gift from Mackenzie Scott. Yay! It is, they say, transformational, and we do not say that lightly. It is a $2 million gift that does not have any restrictions, does not have any reporting.. And we can use it as we see fit to advance our mission. And to give your listeners some context, our budget each year is $2 million. So this is very significant. And I want to tell you a little— I mean, I've been in the nonprofit sector for so long, over 25 years. I've been raising money for important organizations for a long time, and what Mackenzie Scott is doing is something that was something we dreamed about many, many, many years ago. Like, would you— could this happen? So Mackenzie Scott is a billionaire. She is making huge donations to organizations through her foundation, which is called Yield Giving. You can go to their website as well. To date, and I'm pretty sure these dates are right, I think since 2020, she has given away $17 billion. Wow. For the first few years, she did it, you know, quietly. And so there was no way to actually apply. But last spring, YIELD announced their first open call. And this was a call for organizations that fit their very specific criteria, which included you had to be a U.S.-based organization, your budget needed to be between $1 million $1 million and $5 million, and you couldn't have any affiliates. So, you couldn't be like a national organization with a bunch of chapters. But the chapters could apply, but the national couldn't. And so, we were so excited. Kathy Chamberlain and I were so excited when we found out that Bazelon fit within these parameters. And so, the application itself was pretty straightforward. We worked on it as a team. So, Kathy worked on it, Ira Burnham, who I mentioned before, and Megan Schuler, and then also our former colleague, Jaylen Raziminski. And we worked on it together. We submitted the application in June, and a couple months later, we found out that we made it through the first stage, which meant that all our compliance documents made the cut. And we knew some organizations that didn't, so we celebrated that. I celebrated along the whole way. The next phase was super interesting. You were reviewed by 5 peer organizations who were also in the pool. And those organizations could not know you or be in your world of work. So there weren't any disability rights or mental health or civil rights organizations that reviewed us. And we also reviewed 5 organizations. Based— and we— received all the comments from the evaluators and the scores. And our scores were very high and the comments were very affirming about both the work we do and the way that we explain what Bazelon Center does. And we shared this with the board and with other people and we were thrilled to make it to the second stage. Following the second stage, there was a review of— by another group of evaluators that are part of Yield Giving or part of Mackenzie Scott's world. I don't know exactly. And we received those evaluations as well, and they were very positive. We were around November very optimistic, and we knew— we didn't know how many had applied, how many organizations, but we knew that there were going to be 250 organizations selected to get a $1 million gift. So she was giving away $250 million, and we knew we'd find out at the beginning of the year. Well, around the beginning of the year, we found out we would learn in late February or early March. And I just was checking my email all the time. I was so nervous. And even though I knew, like, you know, the process has been so important, we did the best we could, but we found out in early March and we were under an embargo. That because the Baselon Center was such a high-scoring organization that we received $2 million and that she had given more grants to more organizations and some received $1 million and some received $2 million. And I think I have the numbers right. But it was, I think there were 367 organizations that received funding. And it's just so exciting. It's just what we're gonna be able to do to help people with mental disabilities, especially because it's our our whole theme has been launching the next 50 years of the Bazelon Center. I can't imagine a more important way to launch our next 50 years of work. And I can go on and on and on and on and on.

Oh, I cannot imagine your reaction when you got that email.

Well, I was in the office. I actually didn't get the email. It went to my spam, and Kathy got it, and she was blowing up my cell phone— Kathy Chamberlain— and I thought that I was late to a meeting. And so I answered it, and she said, check your email, check your email, check your email. And, um Then she forwarded the email and I found the one that I received and we just, we were, we were just stunned. And I had one of our interns was here, Da'Shaun, who's relatively new, and I just ran to him and just said, "You're not going to believe this. You're not going to believe this." So, yeah, it was very exciting and it was hard to keep it a secret for a couple weeks.

Well, I mean, I mean, I'm— I can't imagine how you felt because I know how I felt, let alone being the person that saw this email. I mean, what did you say? What was the size that you had to be, the size to try to get this grant?

Um, I think that there was there was 6,000— now we know there was over 6,000 applicants. So, there was between a 4% and 5% chance that the Baselon Center would win. And a funny story, I— during the period that we were embargoed, I was down having dinner with some friends on H Street Northeast, and who walks by me but Maria Town, and I almost said something to her, and then I remembered, oh, I can't tell her, but I was so excited to see her and I wanted to tell her, and then I didn't. And so I had to walk away from her really quickly, and then, and, and, and then when the news came out, she was one of the first people I called, and I was like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but I was going to blurt it out and I wasn't allowed to, so I just had to walk away from you.

Oh, I'm sure she understood and thought that was funny when you told her that. Yeah, I could just see you, I could see you doing that. What size does an organization have?

Very good at keeping secrets, so I was so surprised that it almost popped out of my mouth.

You are very good at keeping secrets. So Holly, what size does the organization have to be to get funding from them?

Well, this was just one open call, and I don't know what YieldGiving will do next. So, you know, I think when Mackenzie Scott does— if she does another open call, it is often very well publicized across social media, You know, like all the finance organizations, Washington Post, everybody reports on it. So I don't know what she's— I don't know what she's going to do next, but I am 100% confident that it will be something that has not been done before in the nonprofit sector, that's for sure.

You know what, I mean, don't you just admire her so much. I mean, she feels— she fulfills what I always say. Now, these billionaires, if they would just give back, which I know Warren Buffett does and Bill Gates, but you know, how much of a difference can they make? Look what she's doing, though. I mean, this is unbelievable. Anyone listening on demand, that has access to Mackenzie Scott. We think she is a champion beyond measure for all of us with disabilities. I mean, I think she is just such a great person, so wonderful. So, Holly, different people ask me this question. They— I'm going to skip ahead for a minute because I want to make sure we get to talk about this. Judge Bazelon, why was it so important to use his name? You know, the David L. Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law. Why, why, why did we use his name?

Thanks for asking that question. Judge Bazelon was a— well, let me start with this. The organization was called the Mental Health Law Project for a long time. Now, Judge Bazelon, who had a lot of really interesting clerks who had worked for him over many years, wanted to honor his legacy. And so they renamed the organization the Judge David L. Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law. Now, why, why name it after Bazelon? Well, he was a chief judge. He was appointed by by President Truman. He was really forward-thinking, and he had some very— his judicial career, you know, he had a broad reach of the Constitution. And so, he— one of the things he did that's particularly relevant to the Bazelon Center is he expanded the scope of the insanity defense. And, oh, I'm sorry, I should have said that he was on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. So I apologize for not saying that sooner. So he had these very far-reaching decisions and was actually considered quite, quote-unquote, radical. But many of his, quote-unquote, radical rulings were held up by the Supreme Court. And his clerks thought that it would be important to honor his legacy and also importantly had the support of the Bazelon family. So Judge Bazelon and his wife Mickey, who was a force from what I understand as well, a real advocate for children. She was an advocate for women. She took a lot of young journalists under her wing that were women and supported them. People you know, like Judy Woodruff, were very close to Mickey Bazelon. And with the support of the Bazelon family, the center was— the Law Project was renamed. And one thing that we are incredibly grateful for, and you can talk about it as well, Joyce, is that the Bazelon family remains involved today. And so— Oh, very much so. So, and multiple generations. So, we have Rick and Eileen. Rick is the younger son of Judge Bazelon. And then also he has 4 daughters. Many people know, Emily Bazelon, Laura Bazelon, Dana Bazelon, and Jill Bazelon. And both Dana— Dana served on the board for a long time, and now Jill is on the board. I actually spoke to her today, and it's great. When Megan and I went out to San Francisco earlier this year, we met Laura Barbara Bazelon in person. And so the connection, I think, between Judge Bazelon's, you know, what he did in his career and the family are, you know, sort of infused in what the Bazelon Center is today and will be in the future. But it is not— but it's independent.

You know, oh, I mean, they are— the Basilons are— I love them, but they're so involved. Emily and Jill are still so involved. I mean, they're wonderful. And with that, I am going to take a very quick break and go to the news because Perry Jude is at an event. She could not be here today, our newscaster. So today it's Gerald Haumea.

Gerald, are you with us? Hi, Joyce. Yes, I'm here. Hi, Gerald.

How are you today?

I am wonderful. Thanks for asking. Thank you for letting me call in for the news today.

So what's the news, Gerald?

Well, we've got exciting news, and that is that the Justice Department is going to publish the final rule to strengthen web and mobile app accessibility for people with disabilities. They signed a final rule under Title II under Americans— under the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act, to ensure that there is accessibility for websites and mobile apps for people with disabilities interacting with the state government. This means this is going to be a huge increase in access for people accessing programs and services. Things like emergency information, the courts, healthcare providers, schools, voting information, parking permits, application taxes, transit updates, all the things you need to do to live and operate as a citizen within your state. This is going to ensure that those states make that information online accessible to everybody, including those with disabilities. And we are just so excited to see this move forward. And I know, Joyce, you were very close to this as Tony Cuolo has been championing this effort personally. So we're very happy to see where this goes next, as I know will continue to resonate and grow.

Yes, and it is a really, really big deal. Here's what's going to happen. Federal agencies are going to start saying to their customers, hey, you know, we're not going to purchase this from you if you're not accessible, because they're not going to put themselves at risk. So this is going to be big. This is going to keep moving forward. I have to applaud Tony Coelho for all the work. Hear this, man, he is the most active retired congressman ever. So he never stops. My hat is off to you, Tony. Gerald, thank you so much for calling in.

Happy to do it. Have a wonderful day. Thank you, Holly, for all you are doing for our community.

Thanks, Jerome.

So that, that is such great news. Um, once again, skipping ahead, but I know that we have been doing something about this. So Holly, what I wanted to talk about is the work we are doing to end homelessness. And I know we've had some very recent events, so could we talk about that?

Sure. So, the Bazelon Center is using the tools that I talked about earlier that we have— litigation, advocacy, and technical assistance— to help solve this complex problem. We are not doing it alone, we are doing it in coalition and in partnership with a lot of other people. One thing that is important to know is that we believe that housing can really help solve homelessness. And a lot of people, You know, I think there is a lot of discussion about that. And, but we are in favor of housing, supported housing, and not necessarily building more shelters or more hospitals. And getting people in the community, in homes where they can receive supports and services. And a thing that I think folks probably know, but oftentimes people are cycling between hospitals, between couches, between jails and homelessness. So the Bazelon Center is working very hard to help end that cycle and prevent that cycle so that it doesn't even happen. And so we really are involved in various litigation strategies and also at, in coalition with a lot of people doing advocacy on Capitol Hill.

Yeah, and what's been going on in DC in that area?

Oh, there's so much. So most recently, we were part of, we led actually, an amicus effort, which is a friend of the court, and we did it with other mental health experts for the, it was a friend of the court brief for the US Supreme Court in a case called Johnson versus Grants Pass, which is in Oregon. We were opposing the criminalization of homelessness, and also presenting proven solutions for what could be a landmark Supreme Court case. So the arguments were in, I think it was last week, in April, and a decision will be made in, well, we don't know exactly, but before this court term ends in June.

Well, what were they, what was going on? What were they doing?

So our listeners understand. Yeah, so this is one of the most important cases regarding homelessness in decades, and it addresses the laws whether laws that criminalize people sleeping in public with basic protections, Joyce Bender, like a blanket, when no safe and accessible shelter options are available. And so, and whether that's a violation of the Eighth Amendment's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. Now, I am no expert on all the legal details of this, but I do know that this case could have broad— a broad impact across the country. And again, we know that there are ways to help solve homelessness, and the primary one is through housing and then also the supports and services that people need.

Wow. I mean, isn't that something though? So many people with mental health disabilities homeless, and, and this is what's happening. Just terrible. I'm so proud that Baselon is doing this. I'm so proud because this would be enormous, absolutely enormous, if something good happened from this. Holly, you have— do we have any upcoming events? And if so, how can people join them?

Yes, we do. We will have an anniversary celebration of Olmstead v. L.C., Lois Curtis. It will be on June 12th. It will be 3:30 PM Eastern Time, a webinar focused on the accomplishments of Olmstead and what's in the future, particularly focused on youth with mental disabilities and the services that they need so that they can stay in their homes and in classrooms alongside their peers. All the information will be on the Bazelon Center's website. And we're really excited about this because, you know, there— One of the things that came out of the pandemic, Joyce, is that these webinars that we do can be attended, just like your show, from people all over the world and all over the country. And we used to have these events in person, and they were well attended. We'd fill up a room. But, you know, we are— we— it's unlimited, and we have people from all over the country, and we have of lawyers and judges and law students and advocates and, you know, families, and it's just, it's great. And so we have opted to keep that format online. And then, of course, we wanna see each other. So our awards event in September, September 17th, it's the 2019 Tuesday at the Press Club. We'll be in person. And because we're doing it at the Press Club where there's lots of events that happen with livestream, we'll be able to livestream it as well so people can tune in if they cannot make it to Washington, D.C.

And you better go because it is so awesome. I was there, of course, this past year. And wow, by the way, what a surprise when you've only seen people by Zoom and you see them in person and say, wow, you're that tall. I mean, it's really amazing. And it was wonderful. So Holly, what message do you have for our listeners?

Well, I would say, given that it's 2024, vote.

Oh, what a great message. Vote. I love it. I love vote. Well, thank you, Holly, for being with us. We end every show with a quote, and today it is: All stress, anxiety, depression is caused when we ignore who we are and start living to please others. Paulo Coelho. That is such a great quote, and I look forward to talking to you next week with my guest Tracy Sala. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, Where Disability Matters at Voice America. Talk to you next week, and remember, in the words of Mary Brooker, when you go out today, Choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific Time and 2 PM Eastern Time for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.