Mission of CIDNY

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show. Everyone in the United States and around the world, Once again, I have to tell you, China, largest listening audience. I really appreciate your support. I appreciate what you're doing. You know, I always tell people, "Fenlan, one listener doesn't matter. One person can make a difference." And you can talk about quality of life for people with disabilities. And I have to have a special shout out to my friends around the world with the State Department, starting with Richard Roberts. I love him so much. He is in Okinawa right now, but when I first met him, he was with the embassy in South Korea. And he has become a really passionate person when it comes to quality of life for people living with disabilities. Richard, love you, thank you. Gang-young. Same thing. He is in South Korea. And I actually spoke in South Korea twice. And really, Gangyung was part of making that happen. So, love you too, thank you. My new friend, Cheryl Harris, hey, she's in Tunisia. And if you missed it, they were on my radio show. They were on the show. You've got to go back this month. You've got to go back. Go to Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com, and you can hear that show with Cheryl Harris in Tunisia about disability rights. And that show from Japan, there's a show from Japan you can hear, and there are translators on that show. I mean, it's so exciting There's going to be more. Stay tuned, stay tuned for our next upcoming shows from other countries. But I want to thank all of you. And Yoshiko Dart, hello, special shout out to you, my friend. I know you're excited about Japan. When I spoke there, lead on, love you. And love Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield because they have been a sponsor of this show, Highmark Health, for, wow, I think 5 years now. What a great corporation they are. I'm so excited today because we are having Susan Duha, the Executive Director for the Center for Independence of the Disabled and New York on the show today. Susan, it is such an honor to have you. I was just talking to her at the break, and I know she's worked with Judy Heumann and all the disability rights leaders, uh, Marca, so many people that, that know her and that she knows because she has dedicated her life to her crusade for independence at the Center for Independence of the Disabled in New York. Susan, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm just delighted to be with you and your listeners.

Well, that's wonderful. We're delighted to have you. And as I said, you are known nationally for the work you've done. And I'm sure since Judy's brought different people to meet with you internationally, um, So I have to ask you this question. How did you first become involved in the disability rights community, you know, as an advocate, and then what led you to Sydney?

I grew up in a family where my parents each had disabilities and I had a disability, but it wasn't discussed or talked about or really given much thought. At the time. I then came to New York, went to college, met the love of my life, got married. My husband had a disability, and along the way I heard about Sidney, and I went to Sidney to seek advice initially, way, way, way back in the '80s and the early '90s, and I was really, really pleased with the caliber of people that I met and their concerns and what they were trying to do. Some years later, I was doing health policy, working on national healthcare reform and working on AIDS issues when a wonderful leader at Sidney recruited me to join the board of directors of Sidney in the 1990s. And that was truly a delight to see a young but growing organization that needed the kinds of skills in nonprofit governance and management that I had to offer, and that needed a dedicated advocate. And I'd grown up in advocacy with skills to help advance our agenda. To create greater equity for people with disabilities. I then was told that the delightful executive director who'd gotten me involved wanted me to consider replacing her as the executive director. And a wonderful board member, Ann Davis, who was really responsible for our outstanding victory on curb cuts, in New York City also encouraged me. So, in 2002, I became the Executive Director of Sidney. And I brought with me all of my years working in AIDS, all of my family's experiences, my own experiences, and my conviction about the need for change. And it's been quite a journey ever since.

Yes. How long have you been there now?

Oh, nearly 20 years. Nearly 20 years. I think I— yeah, I'll, I'll be, uh, I will have been with Sydney not quite half of its lifetime, but it's been, it's been wonderful. All the way through. And when I look back and I think of how I joined Sidney but was able to stand on the shoulders of giants like Marilyn Saviola and Susan Scheer and Davis and many, many other leaders with Sidney, I feel very, very lucky to have learned from them and the people that I've met Joyce Bender, Judy Heumann, and so many others who continue to educate me, and I have a lot to learn.

Well, now doesn't that just show how humble you are? Because you have been doing this 20 years, you've worked in the United States, disability rights advocate, nationally known, and isn't it always the most successful person that says, and I have a lot to learn? Good advice to all of you young people listening to this show right now. Uh, but before we talk about your upcoming retirement, which I'm sure so many people in New York are sad about, let's talk about Sidney. Uh, for, for our listeners that are not familiar with the organization, uh, what, What are some of the main programs?

Sydney is a very dynamic organization, and it has grown tremendously. But it starts by working with individuals who come to us expressing needs, expressing a desire for change in their lives, whether it be to find a home or to solve a health coverage problem or a health access problem, or whether it be to transition from school into employment, or to come out of a nursing facility and move into their own home. People come to us for so many reasons, and we work with them in all of our programs seeking change. We work with them so that they can be empowered to engage in making the change that they hope to see. We work with them and bring our skills and our experiences as peers to help them achieve their own goals. Along the way, we talk about how many of the problems that we each experience as individuals are not problems for us alone. They're problems that we all share as people with disabilities. We face discrimination. We have trouble crossing the street safely. We can't use the subways in our city safely and easily. We are discriminated against in healthcare. We have lower educational attainment. We have lower employment rates. These are all problems that have a systemic origin., and we need to work together to address those problems. So, we are always looking for new leaders, young leaders, older experienced leaders to come and work with our advocacy network to help create the changes that will make our lives better and really make the lives of all New Yorkers better. Right.

And— I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead.

We are very, very interested in making sure that what we're doing is educating people about how to improve their own lives, but we also educate the public. We talk about what we think of as disability literacy all the time. We have city government agencies come to us, amusement tourist rides come to us. We have theaters come to us. We have medical plans come to us, and doctors' practices come to us to work with us to better understand how to work with people with disabilities and treat us in a dignified and respectful way, and instead of assuming things about us and about what we're capable of, to ask and to find out and not to underestimate us. So, that's a very important part of what we do, as well as educating people through the media on every topic that we work on. That's a very exciting thing that we do on television, radio, on the internet, through the newspapers. Because we think that people need to understand about disability more than they do right now, and it's important to reach out and to educate.

Yeah, that— isn't that the truth? Because it's so sad, the misconceptions people have about people with disabilities, you know, really just a lack of knowledge in general. So that's really— that's That's great what you're doing. And I see we have a caller on the line. Chris, are you on?

I am. I'm here. Hi.

Hi, Chris Griffin. How are you?

Hi.

Hi, Susan.

Hey, I'm glad to hear your voice.

I know. I just want to call in and just say it's been a pleasure getting to know you. I want to thank you for all the work that you've done over the years for people with disabilities, because it's been not just in New York, it's spread nationally as well.

And I know you're not going to retire and sit home and do nothing, so I can't wait to see what your next adventure is. Absolutely right. I believe that advocacy is a lifelong commitment and that creating a world of justice and where people's rights are upheld and where people are treated with dignity and respect is something you do your whole lifetime. And thank you, Chris. I'm, I'm flattered, um, and I am so appreciative because of my respect for you and the organization that you work for and the tremendous work that you're doing. I, I so appreciate you.

Thank you. We appreciate you, too, and sorry to see you leave, Sydney, but again, you know, we know, as you said, it's a lifelong endeavor, this advocacy for people with disabilities, and so it will be interesting to hear about your next chapter.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I'll be sure and tell you. All right, good.

Take care.

Hey, thanks, Chris.

You too.

Thanks for calling in. I wanted to ask you, Susan, what— holy cow. I mean, you have done so much. What are your plans for retirement? I just— so all of our listeners understand, after these 20 years, Susan is retiring, but from Sydney. But as Chris said, We both know, we all know that she won't just be sitting at home. So first of all, how do you feel about it? I mean, it must be sort of like bittersweet. I'm sure you have a lot of memories and, you know, hate to leave people there. I mean, how do you feel about retirement? How is it impacting you? And what, what do you want to do in the future?

It is a very bittersweet thing. It's really hard to know when you need to change gears, and it's really hard to know when your organization and the work that you've done needs to be seen with fresh eyes, seen by someone who will bring new vitality to the role that you've been doing. And I love all of the things that we've accomplished, making changes in New York City's disaster planning and emergency responses, making change in the taxi system in New York City, making street crossing more accessible by making curb cuts comply with the law, helping to make homeless shelters accessible because so many people with disabilities are homeless. These are a few of the things that I'm proud of. I'm proud of all of the people who took the initiative to leave institutions and to return to the community and now turn their attention to helping others. It's, it's so moving to me. And I get to work with terrific people all over the country doing teaching, learning from them. And investigating how we can make things better. I'm hoping that I have at least one project lined up for after my retirement, and that is to continue working on a project that is examining how independent living centers can be more thoughtful, more effective, and really, really much richer because of being able to reach out-of-school, out-of-work youth who are Black or African American, Latino/Latina, Hispanic, Asian American, and Native American, Hawaiian Pacific Islander. We really believe that the independent living movement is for everyone, and that through our own lenses we may see the independent living movement differently, but that makes the movement all the richer. And it's vital that the independent living movement reflects the universe that it occupies, the people that it serves, in its leadership, in its staff, in the people it serves. And that's That's a project I want to continue working on, developing and teaching about ways to become more diverse, more intersectional, more reflective of the needs of the whole community and the aspirations of the whole community. And that takes a lot of thinking and a lot of learning. I'm hoping to go to Detroit, and that's because I grew up in Detroit. Which is a majority Black city that I absolutely love. I'm a white woman, and I grew up in a city at the knee of absolutely fantastic Black or African American leaders who were in Congress, in city government, and I learned so much. And now I want to have a chance to give back to my hometown. And become involved there as well.

And what, what do you think you'll be doing there? Do you think you'll be like getting involved in advocacy in disability rights, maybe Black disability rights? Do you have any plans or are you just going to wait to see once you get there?

I'm going to go and meet people and listen to them, and I'm going to be listening for where I could be helpful for where I could learn, where I could be an ally, and I'm going to look for places that are very dynamic and have tremendous opportunities for growth so that I can add my skills, such as they are, and my knowledge and my experiences to, to to help them shoulder the wheel and move forward.

Well, I am sure you will do that. You know, Susan, I have to ask you about COVID And there was an article in the New York Times about this.

I think they—

yeah, I think they interviewed you, didn't they? Wasn't there an article with that? Yes. So you are—

Quite a few times.

Yeah, so, so, um, what do you see, how has this impacted the disability community in New York, and what role has Sydney played in that?

From the very beginning of the pandemic, Sydney understood that we were facing an enormous challenge. An emergency that we had not faced before and that would call on us to learn new things, to do new things, and to bring all of our resources to bear. In fact, COVID has had a devastating impact on our community. We've had board members and staff members become ill with COVID We've had staff members lose family members. People that we serve, that we're reaching out to, to help them in their social isolation and with their anxiety about COVID are telling us about their own losses. And so many of us have had those losses, especially for our staff who work with people in nursing facilities and other institutions on coming out of the institution be they group homes or homeless shelters, adult homes, or nursing facilities, into their own homes to live their own independent lives. Our staff have been seeing a death rate in these institutions that has been horrifying. So much— so, so, so much higher than in the community at large, and especially so in certain communities that are Black or that are Latino and Latina where there are a lot of people with disabilities living. Because people with disabilities in New York City tend to be very low income and also are more likely to be Black than they are to be white. And so living in Black communities, for example. And so we have seen a much, much higher impact in the city, in communities, in Queens, in Manhattan, in the Bronx, in Staten Island. It has been really, really a struggle to come together with other groups and try to get out the word about testing and tracing. Safe behaviors, and now the vaccine, because these are all very complex issues for people who have disabilities that often place them at higher risk. Categorically, people with intellectual disabilities or with schizophrenia, for example, are placed at higher risk according to science. And we also know that people with disabilities often develop an immune disorder along with their disability or develop diabetes because of the medications that they take or many other conditions as a result of their main disability and as a result of the medications that they take. People with disabilities are at higher risk in the pandemic. And so, we have seen helping people through the pandemic as job one. Among the top issues have been food and housing. People are really struggling with the most basic things. And in some cases, it's because they've lost their jobs. People with disabilities in New York City are very often working on the bottom rung of the employment ladder without much of a pathway to growth. And to higher wages and earnings. And very often ghettoized in certain industries and in certain positions. Many work part-time or part-year and have income that they're very proud to earn. They're very glad to be part of the working world. And we found that people with disabilities were losing their jobs earlier than people with no disability. When the pandemic began, job loss among people with disabilities began. Many of us are holding our own and are staying connected to the job market by looking for work and saying, "Yes, I'm committed to going back to work." But it's been very, very hard slogging. In New York, people who are deaf, for example, have had difficulty in applying for unemployment. The accessible phone, the TTY, may ring or they may text in and no one picks up. And so there have been particular problems for different groups of people. But I can say categorically that we've all faced a tremendous loss of ground that we're going to have to fight hard to gain back.

Susan, so what would you say is the percentage difference of people with disabilities unemployed versus people without?

Mm-hmm. There's a very, very significant difference. I don't have those numbers in mind, but I can tell you that 29% of people with disabilities were employed before the pandemic, and 71% of people with no disability were employed before the pandemic. It's too early to have really meaningful data on how those numbers have changed, but I expect that we will soon., and we will see the devastation that's been brought about, not only because of drops in employment, but because of the disruption of schooling. I want to point to education as a critical ladder for people with disabilities, and this is especially true in New York for people with disabilities who are Black or who are Latino or Latina. The more education you have, the better your chances of employment and the better your chances of earning a living wage. And so the disruption of schooling as a result of the pandemic, where students have not had the technology that they need, have not had the support from paraprofessionals or rehabilitative support, have not had enough access to special education teachers. We really are losing ground, and we've seen it in our children. We've seen it in young adults, and we really feel that the city and the state in New York are going to have to develop a remedial plan, a corrective action plan, to ensure that We don't lose this whole group of people who've lost so much ground in education, which is so vital to employment prospects and earning ability.

Oh my God, that is horrifying. Hey Susan, we've got another caller on the line. Mr. Kelly, are you on the line?

I am on the line.

Hello, Kelly Buckland.

Hello, Joyce Bender. Kelly Buckland. Oh my goodness, how delightful.

See that, Kelly? You're like a rock. You're a rock star, Kelly.

You rock.

Susan, I just wanted to call in and just, uh, support everything you're doing and saying. I— your points are so well taken. Uh, And this has really been really hard on the disability community, so everything you're saying is really well taken, and thanks for all of your advocacy.

Kelly, I cannot thank you enough for everything that you've done and that you still do, and your words are bringing tears to my eyes and chills. And I am so incredibly grateful for your support because I think that it means that we share a set of values that is so important to our community. And you and I are affirming those values together now. Thank you.

Yeah, well, you're a great leader and you really have been pushing the envelope on this, Stephen. Forging ahead. So thank you for all of your effort and your advocacy. It's really important.

Back at ya.

Yeah, thank you, Kelly. And hey, listeners, Kelly Buckland, CEO at Nickel, has been an ongoing guest on my show, and he'll be back on again. So Kelly, thanks for calling.

Thank you, Joyce. Congratulations, Susan.

Thank you.

How about that, Susan? Kelly Buckland. Is that awesome?

You know, Joyce, this is, this is a double treat. I get to talk with you and your listeners and Kelly. It's really, really an outstanding day for me.

Well, we have more to come because this is, even though we we're a little late. That's okay because we wanted Kelly to get on here. But this is our weekly news break with Perry Jude Radesik from Disability Rights PA that we have every week, our news break. Perry, are you with us?

I sure am, and it's a pleasure to be on with your spectacular guests today, Joyce.

Aha! Would you like to congratulate her on her retirement, Perry?

Yes, please. I, I've never met, uh, Susan, but I've always heard wonderful things about her, and it's just really, uh, congratulations on your retirement and, uh, the best of luck in the future, uh, and that's from all of us here at Disability Rights Pennsylvania.

Oh, Perry, that's so wonderful. I have so much respect for my colleagues at Disability Rights, and they're scattered all across the nation, and I give them all a shout out, and you particularly, and thank you for joining us. I'm so delighted to get a chance to listen to you.

Well, you know, Susan, she's been on every week for several years because I made a decision that people with disabilities don't have a place to get current ongoing news the way people without disabilities go to CNN or wherever to hear, oh, what's happening that impacts us. And I am proud to be on the board of Disability Rights PA, and I can't tell you how lucky we are to have Perry as our CEO. So with that, Perry, what news do you have for us today?

Well, Joyce, I want to have the final segment here, hopefully, on the American Rescue Plan. President Biden signed the American Rescue Plan into law on March 12th. Now, this law really marks President Biden's first major legislative initiative, and it passed Congress, and it includes really important important provisions that will have a positive impact on people with disabilities. Now, the law is really, really a very long law with lots of sections and titles. If you go to disabilityrightspa.org, you will find the link to this Advocacy Matters segment, and we have a link to the entire law, so you can look at it, look at the titles, look at it for yourself. So what's important for people with disabilities in the American Rescue Plan? Well, the one thing our community worked on over and over and over again through all this last year of COVID was trying to get more money for Medicaid home and community-based services. The American Rescue Plan delivers. The law provides just over $12.6 billion to states for an expansion of Medicaid home and community-based services. Now, some of that is in an increased, what we say, FMAP, which is the federal match to state dollars, but there's more flexibility in how the funds can be spent. So, for example, states could use it for increased home and community-based direct support care worker wages.— use it to reduce waiting lists, purchase PPE, recruit and train workers, and improve the direct support care workforce. So there's a lot of flexibility the states have in how to spend that $12.6 billion. Another important part of the American Rescue Plan, people are starting to now receive their $1,400 per person stimulus payments. Now the law will roughly reach 12— 15 million more adult dependents who are also going to receive the $1,400 payment. No previous COVID relief payment had included adult dependents, so this is great that it reaches 15 million more people with a $1,400 payment. State and local aid was included in the American Rescue Plan. I think all of us who do advocacy at the state level know how tough our budgets are this year. And so the state and local aid is going to help so many economies that have been hurt by high unemployment, the suspension of— or closure of businesses, and that very high cost to respond to COVID. Here in Pennsylvania, we expect to receive about $13 billion in state and local funding. Again, states have flexibility on how those funds can be spent. Now, we were hoping that jobless benefits would be extended through the end of September. They are now extended through September 6th with an enhanced benefit of $300 per week. So that is great news. The American Rescue Plan also increases SNAP benefits through September 5th. Many, many provisions in here.

Advocacy mattered.

Many of your listeners acted and contacted their members of Congress to pass the American Rescue Plan. So now implementation of the law is underway. I would just ask your listeners to pay attention to what's what states are doing and to stay engaged because they have flexibility to allocate funds. So advocacy should now be targeted to governors and state legislatures to make sure those funds are released as soon as they are available and are allocated to the priorities of the disability community. Again, Joyce Bender, your listeners can go to disabilityrightsPA.org to see the entire text of the American Rescue Plan.

Well, Perry, thank you. Um, so many people— this is so wonderful because so many people have wanted to stay at home versus being forced to go into a nursing home. How will that work? Let's say someone is in their 80s and now, "Oh no, I don't have to go to that nursing home." How will this work? What will that do for them?

Sure. Well, if, if they have not enrolled in the home and community-based services, they should. And if they are enrolled in home and community-based services, what this extra money does is, one, it gives the state some flexibility on how to address the short-term and long-term systems systems issues so that people can stay in their homes and receive that direct, direct support care worker in their home. So, for example, states could decide to recruit and train more workers for the direct support care workforce. States can use the funds to reduce any waiting lists for home and community-based services.

So these are important ways, but it's up It's up to us to advocate for those things.

Yes. Well, Perry, thank you so much. I encourage everyone to go to disabilityrightspa.org, Advocacy Matters, and read that information. Perry, thank you so much for, as usual, timely news.

Take care, Joyce Bender. We'll talk to you next week.

Okay. Susan, do you see why we do this? I just don't feel enough people know what's going on.

Absolutely. And it's often portrayed in such a complicated way, or often the pieces about disability and how people with disabilities are affected are left out. They're not considered important enough to report on. So, it's terrific that this source exists to help people out.

Yes. Well, Susan, over the next 5 years in New York and across the country for that matter, but what role do you see Sidney playing over the next 5 years, we'll say, in New York?

Oh my goodness. I, I think that Sidney WILL CONTINUE TO PLAY AN IMPORTANT ADVOCACY ROLE AT THE STATE AND THE CITY LEVELS. AND I THINK THAT IT WILL GROW IN THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE THAT IT'S ABLE TO REACH AND TO WORK WITH, AND IT WILL BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE MORE LESSONS LEARNED FROM ITS WORK TO HELP OTHERS AND TO SHARE WITH OTHERS AND TO LEARN FROM OTHERS. That's been a really important thing to me about Sydney, and I'm convinced that it will continue.

Yes, I am convinced that it will also because so much has been done. I'll tell you something that really, really bothers me, and that is that we were talking about this earlier, but here we are 31 years after the ADA, and we still have, as you mentioned, this critically high unemployment. And as you also mentioned, oh my goodness, what is it going to be like after the data comes out from COVID You know, people forget about systemic racism has become clear in all areas. With health disparity, but also the impact on employment because so many people work in areas where in the front lines or, you know, two part-time jobs, you know, to try to survive. And now here they are in this situation, but so much including that view, but so much about disability. Even when you talk to doctors or the medical profession, which it seems so many of them still see people with disabilities in a medical— but I know I work in employment, and the main problem I see is stigma. Now, since you started, how much change have you seen in that area?

I have seen some. I have seen organizations come to us voluntarily and say, "We really are uncomfortable with what we're doing, and we want to learn how to get better." It's not because they're being sued. It's not because the judge is ordering them to go get educated as a result of losing a court battle. It is because they really believe that they want to include everyone, and that's tremendous. But I have to say, in employment, I think that it's— we persistently face discrimination. I think employment discrimination and lack of accessible transportation are two top reasons for the lack of greater employment of people with disabilities. And I'd give a shout-out to education along with that. But I think discrimination in our day is still ferocious. We're still looked at as objects of pity or as superheroes. And we are regular folks, and we know ourselves. We know our lives. We know what we can do, and we very much want to be able to bring our abilities into the workforce to make a difference, but discrimination is tremendous. People still think that people with disabilities have to be in certain jobs and can't be in others. I heard not long ago from a woman I respect enormously who told me that when she's corresponding with an employer, when they see her resume, she's doing swimmingly. When they hear her voice and she has a speech disability or they see her seated in a wheelchair that she powers, it is as if she feels, her IQ goes down automatically a number of points, and she is seen as less capable when that's absolutely not true. And we make a priority of hiring people with disabilities, and we also try to educate employers at every chance we get that they need to embrace disability as part of their commitment to diversity. Diversity. And that they are absolutely 100% right that they need to grow in their capacity to include workers who are Black, workers who are of all races and ethnicities. There's tremendous discrimination right now against Asian Americans. Because of things that have been said about them in relation to COVID that are simply not true. And are profoundly offensive. People are being attacked. So employers have an enormous role that they can play, a very positive role that they can play by creating great diversity within their organizations, including of people with disabilities. And that's vital. And we hope to see employers adopt that approach. And there have been some leaders Recently, the Ford Foundation embraced this perspective that we need to look at disability along with the other elements of diversity and intersectionality and really, really think about what everyone can bring to the mix.

Yes, former Secretary of Labor Tom Perez, he used to say, when you go to hear a symphony and a beautiful, beautiful piece of music, if there are a couple vacant seats, whether it's in the brass section, no matter where it is, that won't sound very good. And it's the same thing in the corporate world. If you don't have people at all seats, you will not be as successful. You will not have the diversity of thought. You will not. And you're so right. I don't know. I think about this often. I just sit back and I think, why? You know, why has it taken so long? Why do people not enforce Section 503 of the Rehab Act? You know, why are people— because when I go to a company, Susan, if they say to me, "Oh, Joyce, I'm so glad you're here because, you know, we haven't been hiring people with disabilities," I say, "Oh yes, you have. Yeah, they're in your company right now." They have depression, bipolar, bipolar disorder, epilepsy, MS, post-traumatic stress disorder. It's just they aren't telling you because they're afraid they'll be discriminated against, that they won't— they'll be seen different in a bad way different. So, um, yeah, we, we have so much to do, and I know you will continue working on that. So Susan, I have to ask you a question with this marvelous advocacy and you're so smart. Who is your role model?

Oh my goodness. Oh, that's really tough because I'm constantly meeting people that I admire so enormously. There are people out in California, people in Chicago, people in Virginia, all over the country whom I admire and learn from. It's just thrilling to see so many capable leaders, including young people who are coming forward in the movement, including people of color who are coming forward in the movement and making such a difference and teaching us so much. That we ought to know. I guess that I was very, very lucky in my mother, and that she, as a working woman who had a disability, taught me a lot about the ability to persevere in the face of diminishment by others. Who taught me so much about the importance of advocacy and who introduced me to so many strong advocates. I think she really set me on my path. But all along the way, there have been people who've opened my eyes to things that I might not have come to. Had I not listened to them. Everyone will tell you, Martha Bristow. Everyone will tell you, Judy Heumann. I'll tell you also, Marilyn Saviola, Edith Prentiss in New York, who we've just lost, was such a tremendous leader. She could be very tough, but it was important that she be tough. And just so many people that I can learn from and value. There isn't just one person, but I would give a shout out to my mother for introducing me into advocacy.

Yeah, well, that— I know what you mean, Susan, but obviously your mother is part of everything you've done. So, Susan, before we go today, what message do you have for our Joyce listeners? Bender.

Joyce Bender. Oh, keep being excited about creating change in the world. Keep being excited about moving forward in your own life and thinking about how we can work together to bring us all forward. Employment is a critical part of life for so many people, and everyone needs a chance needs a chance to be part of the world of work, needs a chance to make a difference in any way and every way. And I just encourage people to look around and look at all of the things that we can change for the better if we work together.

Wow, such a good message. I love that about everyone. Having a chance to be part of the world of work. Oh, Susan, let's keep working on that, working on that, working on that. And once again, first I want to thank you so much for being with us today. It has been delightful to have you on as a guest.

Oh, Joyce, it's been so much fun. The time has passed without me even thinking about it. I really enjoy you and your listeners. And I hope someday I'll come back again and we'll talk about the next chapter.

That's right. Yes, I would love that. I would love for that to happen. Well, I will look forward to coming to Motown City and meeting you in person.

Fantastic.

Okay, okay. Well, listen everyone, thank you so much for being our guest today. Susan, I wish you only the best as you are moving forward, continuing to change the world. And every show we end with a quote, and today this is from Judy Heumann's book Being Heumann. She had a quote in the book from Representative Patricia Schroeder, and I think this quote is so powerful and certainly so right and sadly in so many ways, but it is, "What we did for civil rights in the 1960s, we forgot to do for people with disabilities." And I only hope we can all work to see that change. This is Joyce Bender. America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you next week with Neil Romano. See you then.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.