Mission of the Careers 2B Program

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And welcome to the show everyone. Hope you are having a great day, and that is to everyone in the United States and around the world. You know, I have to tell you, I am so just thrilled to see the amount of countries with listeners in it. And although China is the largest group listening, I want to say I don't care if it's Finland with one person. One person, you're making a difference. And one person tell another person, another person, and you are helping me spread the news of quality quality of life for people with disabilities around the world. And I also want a special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. Hello, Yoshiko, love you. And to my friends with the U.S. State Department, Richard Roberts, Cheryl Harris in Tunisia, Veniamin in Kazakhstan, And to Gangneung in South Korea. You know what? I'm starting to work with so many countries. I can't let anyone out, but I probably have. But to all of you, I love you. And oh, do I love our sponsor, Highmark. Highmark has sponsored this show for 7 years. Well, it's been a long time, and I'm happy to announce that the CEO, David Holmberg, will be receiving in March in Washington, D.C. from the American Association of People with Disabilities the Corporate CEO Champion Award. And he deserves it. Let me tell you, this company is awesome, and they are the company that got me started in 1995 and have stayed with me stood by my side all these years. So congratulations. So I have someone today from that great, great company, uh, the Chief Information Officer for Highmark Health Solutions, Gary Dick, who is not only an executive that I know there but a close friend of mine. Gary, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much, Joyce. I'm very excited to be here today. Very excited to talk to you.

Well, thank you. And you know, when I mentioned that you are a friend, I was thinking about this the other day. Way— wow, have I known you a long time, all the way back to when it was called Bayer Material Science. I mean, that's amazing. That's a long time ago. When was that, Gary? How long ago would that have been? This is pre-Cavestro.

That's absolutely right. I was actually thinking, Joyce, it is back to around 1995. So in that '95-'96 timeframe is when we first met and brought on some of the first people at Bayer at the time. And it's been a very exciting journey over the years.

Yes, and that was only 5 years after the ADA was signed into law. Yes, that would be right, because Bayer was one of the first companies after Heimark that work with me. Wow, I have known you for over 25 years. That is amazing. Wow. Well, and it's been, it's been Gary Dick has been supportive of disability all that time, all those years. And he is, may I say, the real deal. So for our listeners, Gary, How— why don't you start by telling your story, like where you grew up, went to school, and then how you moved into IT and the position you're in now, so that our listeners in the United States and around the world will know more about you?

Thanks, Joyce Bender. Be glad to do that for you. So, you know, I was born in Pennsylvania in the Pittsburgh area, and then family moved to the Chicago area. And so grew up with grade school, junior high school in the Chicago area, and then had an opportunity to move back to the Pittsburgh area for high school and college. I went to the University of Pittsburgh where I studied engineering and then eventually business and IT. I received my first job, actually it was Mobe back then, which, you know, eventually became Bayer Material Science, and started programming. Out of college and did a lot of COBOL programming and eventually a lot of programming with SAS and learned a little bit more about IT and business and spent time working there in application development and infrastructure. And then it's actually 8 years ago this week I moved over to Highmark and have been supporting their technology organization. Since then. And so it's been a very exciting journey over the years and really very much enjoyed my time at Highmark.

Wow, time goes fast. Holy cow. And Gary, you had a lot of trips to Leverkusen, right?

That's exactly right. If you work at Bayer Material Science with the headquarters in Germany, it involves lots of airline miles. I don't know if that's still the case anymore with all the changes we've gone through, but when I was there, It was many trips to Germany and some trips to Asia, Mexico, Brazil. So they were a very global organization. And so we had a technology group that was very distributed around the world.

And why I'm bringing that up is Bayer is headquartered in Germany. So if you're listening and you're from Germany, live in Germany, I wanted you to know that that's where Gary spent a huge part of his career. And at that time, MOBE and then BEHR was located right here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So that's why I wanted to talk about. But now, Gary, you are, as you mentioned, at Highmark Health Solutions. So what is your role there? What do you do there?

Yeah, currently, Joyce, I'm the CIO at HMHS or Highmark Health Solutions, you know, Highmark. A lot of the typical things you see in a head of technology, you know, leadership role. We manage all the infrastructure, and that includes, you know, the networks and the PCs and the phones and, you know, a lot of the database and data center services. And also the cybersecurity program is in our organization. And then a lot of the enterprise applications that you use for supporting all of the staff groups and the functions in Highmark Health. So it's been a very exciting opportunity. We're doing a lot of work preparing for the future in the cloud and getting ready to really help Highmark grow over the years. We have, you know, 3 really key initiatives, and one of them is Health Up, is to make sure that our members and patients receive, you know, great health experiences and really are engaged around healthy lifestyles. We're also scale up, which is really growing and expanding our organizations. We have a lot of influence in the health industry. And then think up is really about engaging our employees and helping to automate and make things more efficient over the years. So really enjoying the opportunities that are given to me in the Highmark community of companies.

You know, Gary, I don't know if you remember this, but do you remember when, of course, Highmark was Blue Cross of Western in Pennsylvania, and it was downtown, and it was this little building. Do you remember that? I think it was one, one floor, maybe two at the most.

That was actually a little bit before my time, but I have heard stories about that as well. And so it's, it's just remarkable how Heimarkt has grown, and, and, you know, just over the year with, with partnerships and mergers and It's just really fun to watch their story over the last 15 or 20 years as an organization.

Oh, I remember it. I remember it. And I remember I viewed them as like, oh, there's Blue Cross, this small company, small company in Pittsburgh. And now look where they are now. I don't know. They're— what did they own? Like 19 hospitals or something to that number. All across the United States.

Yeah, between the partnerships, they probably own about 10 or 12 just in the Western Pennsylvania and Northwestern Pennsylvania area, but they have, like you had mentioned, a lot of major physician offices, and they're very well networked with other hospitals through partnerships. A lot of growth, exactly as you explained, over the last— even from the hospitals just since 2012. So, that's a relatively new, new business model for, for Highmark just over the past 8 or 9 years.

Not to mention that the other day I had to see the Buffalo Bills play because I knew I would see that new stadium, Highmark— Highmark Stadium. Have you seen it, Gary? Have you seen it on TV? The football stadium.

Very exciting, very exciting.

I thought, wow, that is so amazing. You know, I'm gonna have to go there even though obviously I am not Buffalo Bills fan, but I'm gonna have to go sometime just so I can say I was in the Highmark Stadium. I mean, I, I watched that, I thought, wow, how far has this organization come. And I think you will agree that the leadership at this company is absolutely unbelievably great.

Yes, they are very committed to improving, you know, health across the United States, even globally, and really excited about making a difference. And that's the thing about Highmark that's so special is that a lot of companies are focused, you know, mostly or primarily on profit and the and stock price or whatever else. And Highmark is set up in such a way that they're really concerned about making a difference, you know, in people's lives, making a difference in the community. And I think that's one of the things that makes Highmark such an amazing place to work and makes it so fun because you can really see, you know, the difference that you're making. And it's another funny story about the, you know, the Highmark Stadium. I was actually in that stadium a few years ago watching a Buffalo Bills game. And I'll have to be honest with you, I never ever would've imagined that there'd be Time Out signs there someday, you know, back when I was there watching a Buffalo Bills game. So that's really quite an amazing story in and of itself.

It is. It is an amazing story. You know, David Holmberg, I was thinking about something, Gary. I was thinking about how Bayer was a big supporter, you know, before all of these changes occurred. At the company, I was thinking, you know why? Greg Babe was the CEO, and now we have David Holmberg with Highmark's great support. Would you not agree that it makes a difference when you have the support from the top?

Oh, there's no question. No question at all, Joyce Bender. You know, the culture really, really, you know, the drive and the culture and really making a difference in the community, I think, A lot of people learn that from the leaders, and obviously people are going to focus on what they feel is important for leadership. And it's just really exciting that, you know, I've been very blessed to work for two amazing leaders, both Greg and David. So I count that as a real benefit to my career as well.

Yes, I told the former CEOs and COO, I told Keith Kapmeier when he was the He was the COO at one time of Highmark, and I told him, I said, I can't thank you enough for what you did. And he said, you know what I did, Joyce? I just opened the door. But you know what? When you hear that the executive supports this, it makes it so much easier for everyone that works at the company. It really does. And with an issue like disability, You need all the support that you can get. So, you know, I, I just couldn't speak highly enough of him. But I wanted to talk about Careers To Be, which you are strategically the reason for it happening. So I wanted you to share with our listeners how that all came to be, how that got started, and that, and what you've seen happen since then. But First, how it got started and why.

Why? Love to share the story. It's one of my favorite stories, Joyce. So, you know, this goes back, you know, I mean, my gosh, quite a number of years ago when I was with Bragg Materials Science and actually in Greg Babe's organization, working for Greg at the time as a head of IT for materials science in the US. And we were talking about, you know, just, you know, continuing program. I remember you coming to my office and you were talking about how important it was to help people with disabilities, and there was a degree of frustration about, you know, people not getting an opportunity and other organizations not wanting to hire people with disabilities. And I remember us— I think we were talking, it was, it was an afternoon, and we were sharing about how it was the lack of experience that everybody was telling you was one of the big obstacles to hiring people with disabilities. And I remember you telling me very clearly, if people just had a chance— and I was actually thinking about that when you mentioned the open door— it was just an open door that they could prove themselves and demonstrate their skills and abilities that they would be able to get competitive employment and lead very rewarding lives. And that's when we came up with the idea Okay, what if we brought somebody on for a year, you know, as a contractor through Bender and they gave the— got the experience they needed and were able to contribute to the organization and then they would have a very good story to tell at the end of the year where they could either apply to a job at Fairmont Chillicothe Science or somewhere out in the marketplace. And that's what birthed the whole concept of Careers to Be. And it's been a very exciting journey. You know, ever since with hundreds and hundreds of individuals, you know, going through a similar program and leading to full-time competitive employment.

Yes, and it is such a wonderful program. It is, as you said, I would go to companies and I would say, hey, you know, I find employment for people with disabilities with a background in procurement, IT, finance, accounting, you know, all the business disciplines. And I was wondering, I would like to see if we could work with you and have you bring on board a subcontractor or direct hire with a disability from Bender Consulting Services. Oh, if only they had experience. If they had experience, you know, we'd be able to bring them on, but we don't have experience. And I remember telling that to Greg Babe and him saying, oh, you've got to be kidding. So Now, if the person has one year of experience and they aren't, you know, hired at Highmark, you can market them to another company, or they can apply to another company, and now they have that one year of work experience. And that one year of work experience makes such, such a difference in marketing that individual. And I, know that it has spread because Blue Cross of Tennessee has been working with us for years with 3— they keep bringing on 3 people for the one year, 3 people in their IT department with disabilities. And, you know, if you're listening to the show or if you know another company where you think they would consider this. I am telling you, Careers2Be will break down barriers at other companies. And right now, Gary, don't you agree with this candidate-driven marketplace, this would be a good time?

Oh, this is fantastic. I think so often we find ourselves in situations where companies are just trading talent and we're not building new talent pools. And I really feel like this program is a great way to add, you know, really bright people into the workforce who would, you know, normally be somewhat excluded, or at least the barriers for entry would be high. And, you know, there's so many benefits, Careers2B, in the area of not only adding great people to the workforce and filling, you know, hard-to-find talent positions right now, but you're also changing the culture within your organization. And, you know, so often until you actually have people with disabilities in the workforce integrated with the teams, you know, the culture doesn't change. I mean, the training helps a little bit, but until you're actually working alongside with people with disabilities and sharing stories, building friendships, building relationships, you know, it really doesn't change the culture. And that's one of the exciting things about, you know, both working at Bayer MaterialScience and working at Highmark where, you know, I've been doing this long enough at both organizations where I've seen you know, cultural changes in the groups that have adopted the Career-to-Be model.

Yes, and then when they do move on, even if it would be another, you know, division of Highmark, like let's say Gateway Health, now they have that 1 year of experience and sometimes they're just looking for a direct hire. So, you know, there are so many great things about this. I think it is such a great program and it has been talked about nationally and recognized nationally. So once again, you know, I would, if I were you, I would tell people about this program. And Gary, one thing I wanted to ask you, IT, why do you think this is so like exploding? I mean, I know it has been, This year, do you connect that back to the pandemic, you know, where they weren't hiring people and then they sort of held up that, you know, need that they would later have? What do you think?

Well, I think as we start to get more towards automation and digital, just with all businesses wanting to, you know, focus on that, they realize that technology is really the key. So regardless of what industry you're in, there's going to be a technology component to every industry. And I think a lot of organizations are discovering that, you know, it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to hire all the people that they would need to execute their long-term strategies, you know, and growth strategies, that they've got to figure out ways to automate, make things more efficient in order to properly grow. Otherwise, their employees and their ability to hire is going to be the constraint for their, their future business strategies.

And why I'm asking you this is that, as you know, I used to be in executive search before I even founded Bender Consulting Services in 1995. And in the '80s, I remember a time there were so many openings and, you know, so many companies were looking for you know, people with newer skills in IT. But I have to tell you, we are seeing like an explosion of companies looking for people with IT skills. Have you noticed that same thing, Gary?

Absolutely. I just can't— we just can't keep up with what's going on, especially in the Pittsburgh marketplace, you know. It's very difficult to find, you know, people with technology backgrounds move into IT. And I think, you know, with all the focus now on work from home, it's going to even make it, you know, more competitive and more challenging because you're not just competing with local companies, you're competing with companies, you know, all across the United States because people can, you know, almost work anywhere right now. And so it's really changing the dynamics of the workforce and also changing the way that you acquire talent. So I think these shortages are going to be felt you know, everywhere in the near future.

Well, I remember the day that if you ask, hey, I have this great candidate, but they're in Ligonier— I'm talking about Pittsburgh now— they're somewhere where they would never be able to get there. Would you ever consider, you know, the working remotely Oh my goodness, that was almost impossible for people to say yes. As a matter of fact, it was sort of like a perk. You know, if you got that day off, it was sort of like a perk, or if you were working from home, because there was still that mentality of, I want to see the people, you know, I want to see them here. And it's funny that the disability community now says it took a pandemic, it took a pandemic that finally You, if you have a disability and either epilepsy, you can't drive, or you're in some rural area, or you need a personal assistant, whatever it would be, now those people with disabilities can work from home. And that is one thing that has changed.

Isn't it amazing? We've talked about this before in that, you know, you'll start out with something that might be perceived as an accommodation for somebody with a disability, and then all of a sudden, when it works out, everybody benefits from it. And I really feel like this is one of the things you and I have talked about in the past. If we could just solve the transportation problem, you know, if we could just solve the problem of getting people with certain disabilities to the office effectively, then they'd be able to enter the workforce. And, you know, like you said, this has completely resolved, you know, that issue. And not only are the people with disabilities benefiting from this and enabling them to, to have more opportunity for competitive jobs, but it's also opening up a lot of exciting opportunities for employment for people without disabilities that they never would have had access to.

Right. So, Gary, when you interview people to work for you, what are— whether they're in management or, you know, just individual contributors, what do you look for? What is important to you in Beyond, of course, the skills they have to have, the technical skills, but what do you look for in candidates?

Yeah, there's a few items regardless of whether they're, you know, going to be a leader of people or whether they're individual contributors that I like to at least have a good feeling for. And so the first one is, you know, trustworthiness. You know, do we feel like they're really going to be trustworthy? And, you know, at the simplest form, that's, you know, making and keeping commitments. So we really want to make sure we Do they have people that we can count on? And have they demonstrated some type of a track record that would lead us to believe that they are going to be trustworthy? And then the other is just along the idea of motivation. You know, it is really, you cannot really motivate somebody. You know, they have to really have some type of drive for achievement and desire to accomplish things on their own. I do not believe that is really something that we can You can't teach somebody to be motivated. So you really look for that as like a tendency that they already have. And the other one would be initiative, you know, really taking action and inspiring others to succeed. So really want to have somebody that, you know, in addition to their own responsibilities, you know, how are they looking to make a difference? Because as you know, you can't write a perfect job description for every single activity that needs to be done throughout the entire organization. There's always going to be some white space. And the more people you have that have a tendency towards initiative, the more often you're going to get that work done in that white space without it really being in somebody's actual job description. And then I think, you know, collaboration or, you know, teamwork, you know, building those quality partnerships. There's very, very little work that can be done these days independently. Most people would say almost none without some type of relationship with somebody else. And so, it really takes a team to move things forward. So, we do look for people with, you know, that trust working together or that collaboration tendency. And then the last one that I think is really important that's often underlooked is, you know, we'd like people that have a focus on continuous improvement or lifelong learning or continually developing. And so, we're really looking for folks that, You know, not only want to do their best work, but they want to, you know, continually to get better. And, you know, they're always looking for ways to improve their skills and their abilities and their characteristics. So I think those are probably 5 that are really special or really important to me when looking for a candidate.

You know, it's amazing that you would say this because There's a book by Robert Kelly. It's about how to be a star at work. Actually, he was from Carnegie Mellon University and a consultant, and he said that after doing study after study, that the key trait for being an excellent performer is initiative. So that's so amazing you would say that.

It's probably not that amazing because I know Robert Kelly well and, uh, I've actually had him come and speak to a number of my employees over the years at different events. So, he's a great guy.

No kidding. How about that? That is— well, wait, guess what, Gary? I have my management team, leadership team read that book, "How to Be a Star at Work," because he is— that book so impressed me that today when we train high school students with disabilities at the Bender Leadership Academy, That's the first thing we teach them, the importance of initiative. And you know everything about it, initiative. I'm going to be at work early. You know, I'm going to get my work done on time. I'm going to help other people when they need it. Just crosses over into so many other things that, you know, that you want your employees to do. And so I, I agree with you 100%. So this next question is going to be a hard question, and because of that, I'm going to get ready to go to break because I know this next question will take a little bit longer than I anticipated. But if you just joined us, if you just tuned in, we are talking to Gary Dick, the Chief Information Officer at Highmark Health Solutions, a great disability rights advocate, and great leader to see change, and that means employment occur for Americans with disabilities. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. We'll be right back with Gary Dick. Don't go away.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

And welcome back to the show. We have been talking to Gary Dick, the Chief Information Officer from HM Health Solutions. And, you know, I wanted to mention, so I don't forget to tell you this, is that if you go to Spotify, you can subscribe to the show Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com, and you will be able to hear all of the shows, and upcoming shows will be advertise, so you'll know who's going to be on next. So you may know someone right now, you're listening and you're thinking, oh, I wish they would have heard this show. So remember, it's on demand. We have a huge listening audience, and you can go hear that podcast anytime. So don't forget, and don't forget to tell other people. So Gary, before we went to break, you know, I said, oh, this is a hard question. Years ago, you would hear me say all the time that 70% of people with disabilities are not counted in the workforce. Today, and sadly, it is not now 80%, and that is because 1 million people with disabilities lost their job March through September of last year. So my question is, why do you think so many people with disabilities are not employed?

Yeah, this is a tricky question. I'm sure there's many reasons, but I found just from the experiences that I've had over the last number of years working with you, Joyce, is that just there's so many barriers to entry, you know, for people with disabilities. So, it's very hard to get a job, you know, or change jobs and get a new position right out of school or when you finish your training, but it would be especially hard for somebody with with disabilities in many cases. And I think, you know, you and I have talked about this over the years that without somebody giving them, you know, an opportunity or a chance, it can be very difficult to break into the workforce and into the community. And I feel like many of them, you know, after a lot of frustration might actually just, you know, give up. And, you know, that's a very sad state because we're missing some extremely good talent when they just opt out. Of trying to get a job, and then we've got them on the sidelines. It's very hard to get them, you know, back in the game.

I have to say, well, I agree with everything you've just said, but for some reason, this— there is this stigma about people with disabilities. And one of the things I think it is, is that when they think of people with disabilities, they think of the medical model, you know, not just people. They think about, oh, what problems we'll have, will they miss work, uh, oh, what accommodations will we have to have. So let me just start by saying that people with disabilities have one of the highest retention rates of any group. So get out of your mind about will there be a problem with people with disabilities working. That's why I tell customers The return on investment is excellent when you hire a person with a disability. It's not about charity. It's a business investment, return on investment, equal treatment, no pity, and that's the only way that it works, and that's the reason we have been successful, and that is what I know, and that is what I believe. Is this return on investment when you hire people with disabilities. And then I don't know what you think, Gary, but don't you think part of this may be that people are ignorant about— they don't know how to deal with or work with people with disabilities?

I certainly think, you know, there's a little bit of fear and uncertainty in there as well that is a big factor. And, you know, Tying back to what we said about Careers2B, I think that's one of the really exciting things about Careers2B. It gives people a very low-risk option to integrate somebody with a disability into their workforce and start dispelling some of those myths around, you know, that they're difficult to work with or it's going to create a lot of problems within the workplace when really it doesn't, and it actually goes to building a stronger stronger workplace and a stronger culture. And it's funny you mentioned that about the accommodations because I think the average accommodation is really only a few hundred dollars. And so, that's another myth that I think people learn very quickly that, you know, there isn't these thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars that need to be spent to have somebody with a disability, you know, on your team or within your organization.

Yeah, you are right on. The average cost of an accommodation is $300 to $500. That's why I tell companies when I go there— excuse me— I'll say, you have everything you need except one thing: people with disabilities here to use those accommodations. You know, you think about buildings today, they're already accessible. So that's not an issue. If you're thinking that, it is not an issue. Also, Gary, if you were talking to business people, would you not agree with me about no pity and return on investment versus, oh, this is a charity, you know, I just want to, I just feel sorry for these people?

Well, that's exactly right because, you know, especially the Careers to Be program, it doesn't work if it's for pity or for, you know, feeling sorry for somebody. We're just giving people an opportunity to demonstrate their skills and abilities. You know, we want them to be treated performance-wise and expectation-wise like everybody else. Because if the people aren't able to earn respect of their colleagues and of their managers, and, you know, they're never— the program's never going to work. Because you want people to recognize this is a great avenue to be able to attract talent to the organization. And that's why we've seen such success and growth over the years is making sure we have people that are properly educated or properly skilled for the role and can be a major contributor.

Right, with all the same skills you would expect from anyone else that you hire. So, Gary—

That's exactly right.

Go ahead.

Well, I was just going to say it's so funny when we talk about the idea that, you know, these companies only want to hire people with experience, but yet they probably hire hundreds of people straight out of college every year. That don't have any experience either. And that's— we're just looking for the same opportunity for the folks with the disability.

That's right. Well, Gary, there are people with disabilities listening to the show right now that, as I said, have been seeking employment, but they are facing one obstacle after the next. So what advice do you have for people with disabilities seeking employment and facing obstacles?

Well, the first and number one and most important thing is to call Joyce Bender. So, I think Bender just does a fabulous job in helping and being an advocate for people with disabilities to find, you know, longstanding competitive employment. So, that's my first advertisement and plug, Joyce, is call Joyce. Once you've done that, then I think it's really important is one of the things I've that hinders some folks with disabilities is just their ability to interview well and to be able to articulate, you know, what they can contribute to the organization. And over the years, you know, everybody has established, you know, some skills and some set of experience that they can apply to a job, even if it's an entry-level job. You know, they got it through education or just, you know, working on other types of activities. And so I'd say, you know, be very clear with with the skills that you've developed over the years and, you know, some experiences that you have in utilizing those skills and then be able to explain, you know, what were the outcomes that you were able to deliver or improve as a result of leveraging those skills. Because I really feel like if you can confidently discuss, you know, those couple things during an interview, that will, that will help tremendously with your chances of either getting asked to another interview or given an opportunity. And I think it's unfortunate because I feel like a lot of people with disabilities have a lot to offer, but they just struggle with the ability to communicate, you know, those few things, you know, during a half-hour discussion or a half-hour interview. And I think it causes many of them to be excluded from the next steps.

And, yeah, that is so true. That is true. What about young people with disabilities listening to this show right now? We'll say, high school, getting ready to go to college, and they have a disability, what advice would you have for them? Let's say they want to go into IT. I'll use that as an example. What advice would you have for them?

Well, I think getting some type of initial training would be very valuable. It doesn't always have to be a 4-year degree. You know, there's associate degrees, different things like that out there as well, but I really believe some type of technical training really helps with removing some of the barriers from that standpoint. And then, obviously, if there's any way they can get some type of internship or something like that while they're in school, I think that really helps as well. But one of the key things that I find is building some relationships as well. And so, I know that Joyce, I know you have the Bender Leadership Academy and, an opportunity for people really to build out some skills and character qualities that will serve them well. And I think initiative, I think we'll both agree that being able to demonstrate initiative is one of the best ways to get your foot in the door in a lot of organizations.

Right. And volunteer work, I just want to mention that. I want to mention to you that say that you do volunteer work for United Way or the Epilepsy Association or any group, You would not believe how many people you will meet there that are more executive-level leaders in a company, even sometimes a CEO. So what I'm saying is, that's another thing I would suggest. I would suggest that you do volunteer work, church, wherever it is, but that's a good way to network and meet people. They're going to remember that. They're going to notice you. They are. Also, when you— go ahead.

Well, no, I was going to say that's a very good point, Joyce Bender, because volunteer work gives you a chance to practice your skills and actually deliver some of those outcomes that we talked about that will really be helpful, you know, in the interview process. And you're right, there's no better way to build a network than people that are aligned around a similar cause working together.

Right, and in addition to meeting people, and as you said, developing those skills, you will be able to put this on your resume as volunteer experience that you've done. But I'm going to tell you, you don't know how many companies I work with that when they interview someone, they say, so Gary, what volunteer work have you done? I mean, so many companies ask that question. Tell me about your volunteer experience. And I'm— I always tell my employees two things. It tells what kind of person you are and your initiative that you took time to do this. And don't you agree with that, Gary?

That's absolutely the case. I think more and more people are looking for well-rounded people that have interest outside of work and are passionate about, you know, helping others.

So, You know, there's Disability Mentoring Day also. You always talk about apprenticeships, Gary, and even if you are not going to college, let's say you have more of a vocational background, whether it's in carpentry or plumbing or whatever it is, I think it's really important to try to get an apprenticeship somewhere because all of that, first of all, that could help you get that job, but I feel that also teaches you so much and helps you get another job. I don't remember if they had apprenticeships when I was first working with Bender and Associates at Baird. Did they ever do that?

I don't recall any. I think they had the summer program, the summer program they had, which was like more along the lines of work readiness and things like that, but I don't think they had a formal apprenticeship program. Other than Careers2B.

Yeah, because I, I just think that it also shows you, do I really want to do this job? You know, young people seem to, oh, I'm going to be that, I'm going to do this. But I tell them, really? Okay, you want to work as a veterinary technician? You should go and say, hey, I would like to do an internship. You don't even have to pay me because you may go do that and then say, Ah, I don't like doing this, although your children would all like doing that because I know that they grew up with animals on your farm, Gary. But do you understand what I mean when I say that?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that whether it be an internship or an apprenticeship or sometimes just interviewing people that are doing different jobs, because it's a great opportunity if you can find somebody. It's amazing when you get to like a friend of a friend. Friend, you know, that scope around the circle, how many people that actually, you know, are in your network. And if you could find somebody that is a veterinarian or somebody that's an IT programmer or a database administrator or somebody in cybersecurity, and you could just have an opportunity to talk to them and understand a little bit about what their day looks like and what types of activities they do. Because I know for sure that Sometimes you get a different impression. I remember way back when we had Take Your Child to Work Day, and I remember taking one of my kids to work, and, you know, after the end of the day, they're like, well, I know one thing, I never want to be in IT. So we basically cured one of my 5 children from ever wanting to be in information technology by taking them to work with me for a day.

Well, I, I, I, we love that Disability Mentoring Day. And by the way, that's the third Wednesday of every October. Highmark is one of the biggest supporters of Disability Mentoring Day. Pittsburgh is one of the biggest, the biggest Disability Mentoring Day event. As a matter of fact, we have over 500 students that will be going to different companies, about 40 companies that day. If you aren't participating, Put that on your calendar for next year, the third Wednesday of every October. Let me tell you why. Because the student does an internship, and the manager says, "Wow, why was I ever worried about this? This person's really great." And the high school student says, "Oh, wait a minute, I could do this job." It's just totally a win-win and a future recruitment pool for you. Disability Mentoring Day, Third Wednesday of every October. And go to AAPD.com. That's AAPD.com to get more information. Well, Gary, I have found you to be someone that has a high level of integrity. I know you're a person of faith. You're very compassionate, excellent worker, very bright. So to be this successful as you have been, you had to have had role models or just someone you look up to. So who would that be, Gary? Who has been your role model?

Well, yeah, it's so funny you mentioned that. You know, probably I would have to say Greg Babe has been very influential, you know, in my career and in my life. And so, you know, I've worked with him for quite a while at Bayer Material Science, and we would get together, you know, often for mentoring sessions and coaching sessions. I actually ended up reporting to him for a while while we were both at Barry Mitchell Science, and he's somebody that I could always trust to sit down and give me some advice and, you know, some career advice, as well as, you know, talk about, you know, leadership principles. And I really value, you know, valued his relationship and the time we spent together and definitely had a strong impact on my career.

Oh, he is a great man. He is. He too. I look up to him also. I really do. And, you know, you have a role model, but then you also have mentors. How important do you think that would be for people with disabilities to have a mentor at work?

Well, I think it's critical. I think there's, there's, there's only so much you can, uh, you know, you can learn and you can acquire knowledge and you can try to put things in practice, but you just don't see everything. From your position. So, I think it is really important to have some type of feedback loops in place. And, you know, those can be with, you know, if you're a people leader with your subordinates, but certainly your peers. And you should certainly have somebody that's outside of your work group that you can go and bounce ideas off of and maybe get a person's viewpoint that isn't so attached to the things going on day to day. So, I think a mentor is a really critical part of the equation.

Once again, helps your career, helps you move up, or helps you see other opportunities in the company. So important and so helpful also for you to learn. This is, this is what I should be doing. So I would encourage anyone working, or even if you aren't working yet, to get a mentor, have a mentor. It will make a difference. I know Tony Coelho has been my mentor and Wow, what a person to have as your mentor. He has made such a difference in my life. So, you know, I would suggest the same thing for you. So, Gary, what message do you have for our listeners today?

Well, I think I'd really like to challenge folks to, you know, hire somebody with a disability in your organization or in your work group. And, you know, Careers2B is a great way to start that journey. You know, you can get somebody in there for a year and, you know, there's no long-term commitment, although I'm confident that once you see what great work they can do, you'll want to make a future commitment in that area. You really have everything to gain and nothing to lose from trying that out. It will really help your culture as far as, you know, helping people understand, you know, how exciting it is to work with somebody with disabilities and how it will change the dynamics of your workplace. And also, it'll open up a— a whole nother pipeline for great talent acquisition and integrating talented individuals into your workplace. And so, I think that's really— we could talk about it for hours and hours, but until you actually take that first step and hire somebody, you're really never going to be able to get to the level where you're really operating at full potential.

Right. I always tell people, you know, don't talk about it. Where the rubber meets the road is employment. That is what makes the difference— employment. Well, Gary, I can't thank you enough for being with us today.

My pleasure, Joyce Bender. Really glad to be here.

Well, we're really glad to have you, and keep up what you're doing. Lead on. Help more people with that Careers to Be program. And before we go, we end every show with a quote, and today that quote quote is from Mother Teresa, who said, "Don't look for big things. Just do small things with great love." How true that is. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. See you next week. Choose joy and hear Jonathan Young on our show.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.