Molly Burke: Multi-Hyphenate Creative Advocate for Others with Disabilities

At Highmark Health, we believe what makes us unique makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster a variety of skills to complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition as the Best Place to Work for the 10th year for individuals with disabilities in a survey by the American Association of People with Disabilities and Disability:IN. We'll continue to celebrate and benefit from the inclusion of all people. To find out more, visit highmarkhealth.org. Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, this is Joyce Bender with Disability Matters. Welcome to the show. I'm always so thankful to have such wonderful listeners. You know, this is our 22nd year on the air, 22nd year with over 1,000 episodes. And do you know why? Because I have great support from people like you. I mean, we are it globally, featuring celebrities, senators, disability rights leaders, CEOs, because I want people to know that people with disabilities deserve quality of life like everyone else. And we are determined to make that known. So thank you everyone in the Americas, you are wonderful. And around the world, you know, I was just looking at my card from Walder Chu, who is in Hong Kong. And we have listeners around the world, 73 countries, and just tremendous listeners. As a matter of fact, Theo, if you're listening in Brazil, hello, greetings. And yes, I'm planning on doing a show from Brazil. It's such a great leader with Johnson Johnson. And wherever you are, Richard, my friend from the State Department, a shout out to you. You know I love you and love working with you. And Gang Young in South Korea. And just really everyone where I visited so many countries talking about the employment of people with disabilities. You rock, all of you trying to make a difference in this world. And all of you in the United States, please share this show with others so we can make sure that we have justice for all, as the great late Justin Dart would say. And that's why I have my shout out to Yoshiko. Yoshiko Dart, who is the widow of the late great Justin Dart and a wonderful person, a wonderful leader, Love you, Yoshiko, and love you, HiMark, our sponsor and sponsor, lead sponsor for years on Voice America. So remember I said celebrity? We have one today. We have Molly Burke with us, and you will see she is a beautiful celebrity, speaker, content creator, model, Author, disability rights advocate. I mean, here is, well, really a celebrity who does it all in so many areas. I had the great pleasure of meeting her a couple years ago from Dan Sullivan. She's a speaker, content creator, supermodel, uh, social media influencer. Wow. She is the first blind person to hit 1 million followers. And she was named by Allure by joining the A-list of one of the 19 people driving and shaping the future of beauty. She works with many Fortune 500 companies as a speaker. And you hear all this and she's young. How about that? She's done all of this so far in her lifetime. Molly Burke, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.

Well, we're honored to have you here. And as you just heard, we have listeners around the world who you will all be hearing in a little bit about this great book our author has written. But for our listeners in the United States and around the world, they always say, wow, That person was awesome. I wish I knew more about them. So Molly, let's hear your story. You know, where did you grow up? How did you live with having a significant disability? What was your journey? Let's hear your story.

Yeah, I'll give you a little bit of background on me. I was born and raised outside of Toronto in Ontario, Canada. And I was 6 months old when my grandfather noticed that something wasn't quite right. He was holding me in his arms and he noticed that my head wouldn't stop shaking, kind of like I was having a constant seizure, but only in my head. And so he urged my parents to take me in to see a neurologist. And I started my medical journey at SickKids Hospital, one of the leading children's hospitals in the world. I'm very fortunate to have had it right there in my backyard. And I was diagnosed with spastic Newton syndrome. Which at the time my family was told was a one in a million diagnosis, extremely rare, but thankfully I would grow out of it. It wasn't gonna cause any significant issues down the line. And then when I was around 2 years old, my parents noticed that while my head had stopped shaking and I had a more standard neck posture, my eyes were still shaking and I wasn't really tracking correctly. And that's when they took me back and neurology said, "This looks like ophthalmology." So I went down to ophthalmology and that began the eye journey. And my diagnosis was quite complicated because I have multiple rare conditions that don't necessarily always go together and I have them all. And so they would kind of diagnose me with one and I did have it and they would think that was the end of the story, but it wasn't and more symptoms would appear. So it was quite a long medical journey. And when I was almost 5 years old, I was, finally diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, which is my main disease that caused my progressive blindness. So at that time, my family was told that I was going to go blind, but they did not know when that was going to happen. Their best prediction was that I would lose most of my sight when I was in my kind of mid-30s to mid-40s. But unfortunately in my case, I ended up actually losing it around 14 years old, very much, much faster and younger than the doctors had anticipated. And growing up, I dealt with with a lot of significant bullying. I switched schools 5 times in an attempt to both find better social setting, but also find better accommodations and a better academic situation for me. So it was very challenging growing up for me. I started using a cane full-time at 9 years old and I got my first guide dog at 13. And yeah, navigated high school at the School for the Blind with my guide dog. And then at 18 years old, I started touring the world full-time as a speaker. At 20 years old, I started my social media platforms, and that was 11 years ago. And over the 11 years, I've built a platform of over 5 million followers around the world and just released my debut memoir, "Unseen: How I Lost My Vision But Found My Voice." Oh, what a great saying too.

Yes. Well, I guess they have bullying in Canada.

Also, we're very nice people in Canada, but yes, unfortunately, we still have bullying.

Now, where do you live now?

I'm in Los Angeles now.

Oh, you're— you're— so now you're in the United States living here. Uh, wow, you are in the city of the Los Angeles Dodgers. Wow. In the World Series. Um, What is the difference, in your opinion, in Canada as to how they view disability?

Mm, that's a great question. What I've noticed from traveling around the world, I've been very fortunate in my life and in my career to go all over the world, and I've realized that every country has pros and has cons. I think there are certain things that some countries are doing better, equally they still have things that they're doing worse. And so I've realized nowhere is doing it perfectly yet, whether it be somewhere is better with accessibility but worse with the way they view it socially. In Canada, there's a really big push to change social stigma in the blind community. So the CNIB, the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, is really working on changing the way the general public views blindness, views service dogs, views employment of blind people. So I would say we've definitely struggled with that. And that's what I noticed when I went blind was how differently I was treated because I knew that I'm the same person, I just can't see, but I have the same interests, hobbies, likes, dislikes, the same sense of humor. I'm still a bubbly, social, outgoing person. So why all of a sudden are people asking my parents what I want to eat at lunch instead of asking me just because I can't see? And so that was definitely for me something that made me feel so isolated and so depressed and so frustrated was that I felt like the same person, but society no longer viewed me that way. So I'm really excited to see the CNIB really creating a lot of content and campaigns around the normalization, the humanization of blind people in society.

Yes, that, you know, I always ask people if they've had an accident and they're now using a wheelchair, I always ask them, well, how did they treat you before and after? And it's always different. It's always based on the disability. And as you said, Same person, you know, you are the same person. Well, Molly, you became, in addition to all these other great things, a disability rights advocate. I consider you an international disability rights advocate, you know, and we need more. We need more young— I was talking to Ted Kennedy Jr. and I said we need more young dynamic disability rights leaders, uh, you know, following behind all of the Judy Heumann and all of the great leaders, uh, and Justin Dart. Uh, what— why did you decide to become a disability rights advocate, speaking up for people with disabilities?

For me, I don't really feel like it's a choice. It is a calling. It is a— it is almost a compulsion. I am somebody who cannot sit back and watch injustice. I cannot feel like a victim to my situation or to the way the world treats my community. I have to do something about it. I have to empower myself and in turn try to empower the community because Otherwise, I'm just going to sit here and be angry and be bitter and be frustrated, and I don't wanna live that life. I remember when I was in high school after going blind and losing my friends and struggling with suicidal ideation because of my circumstances, I realized I can be angry at society's ignorance or I can get out there and I can try to educate them. I can try to combat the ignorance. And I would much rather be a part of the change than sit back and watch things continue to exist as they are. So for me, it was never really a choice. It was a purpose. It was a calling. It was a passion, a mission that I just feel compelled to speak up. I'm somebody who naturally, as I said, is very outgoing, is a bit of a loudmouth. I have no filter. I just say what I feel. And, you know, you can use that for bad or you can use it for good. And I just have to say something when I see something.

You know what? I'm going to get some of these quotes. I love when you said, "I don't feel I have a choice." I mean, what a powerful statement. Everything you said about this, and I hope young people Listening to Molly right now, people with disabilities, young people listening with disabilities who we hear from a lot, look what she did. Look how accomplished Molly is, but she doesn't live in the shadows. She's right out front and center the way everyone with a disability should be. And Molly knows what I do, that I own a national company finding employment for people with disabilities. But you know, When I started, this is my 30-year anniversary. And when I started, I remember Molly saying, well, in 1995, well, in a few years, I probably won't be doing that much here. I'll probably be in India or Africa or Europe somewhere. In other words, I felt we would be so far moved along in a short time period, that it would be more like Joyce Bender, you know, you've worked yourself out of a job. Never ever would I believe that even as we are speaking today, 70% of people with disabilities are not counted in the workforce. And people who are blind, epilepsy like me, mental health disability, deaf, different disabilities, such a high unemployment, which is terrible. So I'm gonna ask you why. Why do you think people, people who are blind face such high unemployment?

Look, this is my soapbox, okay? This is what I am so passionate about. I truly believe— where do I even begin? I have so much to say on this topic. I am just as passionate as you. Go right ahead. So we— so many generations, when they were young and they saw somebody with a disability and they said, you know, what's that? Or why is that person different? What's that chair they're sitting in? Why does their arm look different from mine? Why is the dog in the store? Their parents said, Shh. They were taught from the youngest age when they weren't asking out of malice, they weren't asking out of hatred or judgment, they were asking out of childhood curiosity because they're learning about the world. And when you ask a question as a child and your response is shh, what you are taught is don't ask, don't look, don't point, don't stare. Otherwise, ignore. So society was taught for so long to ignore disabled people. I mean, we were segregated for so long. And then when we were finally out in the world, we were told, "Shh, don't look, don't point, don't stare, don't ask." And there was no media representation to learn. And the only media representation we had, I mean, still today in 2025, we have 3.1% media representation of disability. And the least representation of that tiny percentage is in children's media. And even the representation we do have is mainly written, directed, and played by non-disabled people. So when we're given no education, no exposure to disability, and then the only sliver of information we get is riddled with misconceptions and stereotypes, and inauthenticity, it only furthers the barriers. It furthers the gaps. And so why are disabled people struggling to get employment? Why are disabled people struggling to find romantic partners, to build friendships and connections and community outside of disability? It's because society fears us. They are scared to do or say the wrong thing because they've never been taught how to interact with us. We have never been humanized, normalized to non-disabled people. And what the media has done is continue to further the separation. They have shown how different we are, that all blind people wear dark sunglasses and depend on somebody to help them, or we have superhuman abilities and extraterrestrial powers in these sci-fi and horror films. They never just show us as a person. They never show our humanity. They never show our sameness. And so when all we're shown is how different we are, we don't realize that actually there's more sameness than difference. And so people just don't know. And when we when we don't know and we fear, we avoid. So we'd rather hire somebody perhaps even less qualified that's safe and comfortable and we know how to interact than somebody who is disabled and more qualified, but we have so many questions and we don't know where to turn for the answers and we don't know how to ask the questions. So we continue to avoid because it's more comfortable than learning because we don't know how to learn. And I think that has been overwhelmingly our problem. And that's why I have chosen to use social media, to use entertainment as a vehicle to, to change that problem that I see.

Oh my goodness, Molly, you are a great spokesperson. I mean, you've got the fire, girl. You've got the fire. And I'm going to tell you how impressed I am with you. Next year, off and on throughout the year, I'm going to have actually not just a guest but a co-host that is on with me with these senators or whomever, asking them questions. Never had one yet. I was thinking about this the other day, and you know what? It's going to be you.

Thank you.

It's going to be good.

I would be honored.

Well, you are authentic. I love authentic. But everything you're saying is true. Why I was shaking my head as you were speaking is when I was the chair of the board of the National Epilepsy Foundation, I would speak everywhere, but I'd also speak to young people, and I heard what their parents were saying. Don't go there. Don't go here. Don't tell that you have seizures. Don't do this. Don't do that. So when I would speak, I would say, would you stop doing one thing for me? Stop doing this.

Shh. Mm-hmm.

Don't tell anyone. Because you know what you're saying? You're saying because there's something wrong with you.

Yes.

You're saying because it's bad.

Mm-hmm.

Don't do that. How do you expect the person to be confident and independent if you are teaching Yes. Fear. How? And I just agree with you so strongly, Molly. And I must say, you are a great disability rights leader. So Molly, I'm going to jump ahead. You know why? I want to talk about your book. I want everyone listening to know why they should buy this book. Here you go. You want a holiday gift idea? Go buy this book. So, Molly, what is the name of the book and tell us about it.

So the book is called Unseen and the subtitle is How I Lost My Vision but Found My Voice. And it's a memoir that really explores a lot of what we just spoke about, themes of disability representation in media and the harm that done, struggles around employment. It talks a lot about social versus medical model, universal design. It goes into my exploration of these things as I grew as a disabled woman, because as a child, I dealt with a lot of internalized ableism. I dealt with really desperately wanting to be cured, to be sighted, to feel— feeling like that was the only way that I could reach my full potential, that I could really be happy and fulfilled and successful because that's what society was telling me. Even if they weren't saying it with their words, they were showing me with their actions that the only way I could be accepted, be confident, and feel whole was to be cured, to fit the world that they built. And I had to go through a really long journey of unraveling that. I spent so long using my voice for the gain of other people, using my voice to help other people further their agendas and their messages, and not even knowing what my own was. I spent so much of my childhood as the face of a charity who fundraised for vision research to cure me, and I would speak on their behalf without even realizing what I was doing. I was just a kid who loved performing and being on stages. And I didn't realize that I was furthering this ableist agenda that we as disabled people need to change to fit their world instead of the world changing to fit all of us who live in it. And as I grew older and I realized, wait, I'm not going to be cured. All of this work I've been doing for them to help find this cure they've been promising isn't materializing into anything. And if anything, I feel more broken than ever because I had been internalizing all of this ableist rhetoric for so long. And I had to go on such a journey of unraveling that and learning that the problem is not me. I am not the burden. I don't need to change. What needs to change is the world because I am not disabled by the fact that I cannot see. I am disabled by the fact that you're handing me a touchscreen with no screen reader on it. I am disabled by the world that doesn't have Braille labels on the weights at the gym that I go to. So I need to ask somebody to hand me the 10 pounds. I am not disabled by my body. I'm disabled by the world who's ignored my existence and my community's existence. And I really, that is what I use my voice for now. So the "Unseen" title really came from the fact that I, I and my community have felt invisible for so long, and time's up. I have felt unseen by the media that doesn't represent me. I have felt unseen by society who does not design with me in mind. I have felt unseen by companies who do not hire me and my community. I have felt unseen by my peers who have bullied me, and I'm done. I'm over it. I've had enough. Times have to change. And really, "Unseen: How I Lost My Vision but Found My Voice" is about how I went from using my voice to help other people to using my voice to help myself and my community. My voice is not going to be used by other people's ableist rhetoric anymore. My voice is going to be used to uplift my community.

You know what? You're getting better as we go through. I don't know how that's possible, but you know what I love? Time's Up. Oh! We got these Molly Burke sayings going on here everywhere, and we've got people around the world hearing you and listening and getting fired up. And I'm not done with the book. Listen, you all want to help people. Everyone wants to help you. Everyone wants to see, please, quality of life. Please hire me. I have the right to live. You are free, and you're never free anywhere in the world until you can. Buy a car, get an apartment, live the dream until you have employment. So now here is someone that's working to help. You know what I would do? I would buy this book, even if you buy it for another person. I mean, if we don't support our own leaders, who are we? I mean, we've got to support our own community. And I want you to buy this book. Now, where do they go to buy the book?

You can buy it anywhere books are sold, including, uh, as an audiobook that I read, uh, which is on Audible. It's available as an ebook for Kindles. It's also available as a hardcover book. You can get it on Amazon, Barnes Noble, um, indie bookstores are selling it. It's, you know, I appreciate that you're, um, saying that we need to support our community because it's true. This is my first book, and I hope to write many more, especially in the children's space, because I believe that we need children's media with representation. And the reality is that disabled authors aren't going to get more publishing deals unless publishers are being shown that there is demand for voices like mine and like ours in the literary spaces. So purchasing books by disabled authors, whether it be me or other disabled authors, is so important to show the industry that yes, there's demand for books like this, and leaving good reviews on Goodreads, on Amazon, on Audible to show other people that this book is worth reading, this book is worth buying. And I, I want to make a point that I, I tried my best to design this book with so much intention centering my community. So if reading a book is, is typically difficult for you, we did everything we could to make it easier. I used We used the Braille Institute Atkinson Hyperlegible font, which is better for people with dyslexia, with low vision, and print reading disabilities. We increased the size of the font, the spacing between letters and words to make it easier to read as well. We used high color contrast. We used bold fonts. We did bold instead of italics where we would typically see italics. Again, that is easier for people with print reading disabilities. Disabilities. I made sure that I have tactile Braille on the COVID of my book. We also hired inclusively, so all of the people who made the design of my book cover possible were disabled women. My photographer was an amputee, my hairstylist was legally blind, and my makeup artist was a quadriplegic. Truly, with every part of this book, I am trying to center our community and, and practice what I preach. If I am telling you to hire I am going to be hiring disabled people. If I'm telling you to design with accessibility in mind, I am going to design with accessibility in mind. And I'm trying to set that precedent within the publishing space that these things can be done and actually improve the book and the reading experience for everybody, not just disabled readers. And it's been incredible to see as the book has come out over the last 2 weeks, how many people with low vision and dyslexia and other reading disabilities are coming to me and saying that I don't typically get physical copies of books, I get audio copies because it's too difficult for me to read, but I was able to read this with so much ease, and that just makes me so excited.

You know, you are just awesome. See, everything she's saying, I believe in. Here's how you know that someone is really walking the talk when they also hire people with disabilities and use people with disabilities. That's why you have to buy this book. Buy this book. What's the name of it again?

Unseen: How I Lost My Vision But Found My Voice.

All right. Amazon, Barnes Noble. You know, not only do I want you to buy this book, Listeners, what if they're in an— what if they're in another part of the world? Then what, Molly?

You should still be able to buy it on Amazon in other parts of the world. Um, we do have it in UK bookstores and in Canadian bookstores, but the rest of the world, we've not gotten to bookstores yet. So Audible for audiobooks and then Amazon for ebooks and then purchasing the physical book, you should be able to as well.

As well. Good, that's good. And I meant what I said about what a great holiday gift. You know, people are always asking me ideas because I love to read. I'm a voracious reader. Well, here, this is going to be my book I'm talking about, and I hope you will all buy it. Once again, I want to reiterate, what is important is supporting our community. Or what's going to happen? What's going to happen? What's going to happen is we won't be noticed, and we're not going to let that happen, are we, Molly?

Absolutely not. And it's so important that we as a community stand in solidarity because sometimes I see these situations where we within the community are judging and picking each other apart, and then we're telling society to, you know, to accept us and to support us and to uplift us, but we're not uplifting each other. We're not standing in solidarity. And I'm a big believer that we teach people how to treat us, right? So if I'm insecure about my disability and I act like my disability is a big deal, that's what I'm telling other people about it. And that's how they're going to perceive it and they're going to treat me. But if I own my disability and I am confident, then they're going to act like my disability is not a big deal and it's not something that they should think twice about and that it's something to just accept as a part of Molly. And it's the same with our community and our rights movement. If we internally can't agree and we internally are picking each other apart and saying, "Well, you are accommodating your disability wrong because I accommodate my disability," in a different way, but then we're saying to society, we're not all the same, we're not a monolith, don't treat us like we're all the same. Practice what you preach. We internally need to be united, we need to stand together, we need to say it's okay if we don't accommodate our disabilities the same way, we're all unique people and that's okay, but what we need and what we want is the same. We want equity, we want acceptance, we want opportunity, we want employment. And so we need to support each other to show the non-disabled world to support us.

Amen. That's what I say. Okay, well, hey, wait a minute. It's time for our news break. It's time for Mathis on the Mic with our great Jennifer Mathis. Jennifer, we have a celebrity on here with us today. Molly Burke. She is an author. She is, you know, speaker, content creator. She's the first person who was blind to have how many, how many people on your social media platform?

Over 5 million globally.

5 million globally. So we got a great disability rights here with us. And Jennifer, I told her how famous you are. So let's hear it. What's the news for us today, Jennifer?

Well, um, as usual, there's so much going on that, um, it's not possible to give an update about all of the things that are significant that impact folks with disabilities. But what I thought I would give an update on today is a case that's in the Supreme Court. Which is about imposing the death penalty on people with intellectual disabilities. Um, and this is a case called Hamm v. Smith. It comes out of Alabama, and it is one of a series of cases that the Supreme Court has decided over years where they look at this issue of, um, when people with disabilities can or can't be executed. It really stems from a case called Atkins v. Virginia, which was decided a number of years ago, where the Supreme Court said that there was an emerging consensus or an emerged consensus that we do not execute people with an intellectual disability. So ever since then, There has been litigation around what counts and how states look at who has an intellectual disability. So in this case, Alabama had somebody on death row and gave him a number of IQ tests, sort of a lot of IQ tests actually, and they said, well, he scored above our range for intellectually disabled, not by much, but he scored above in these various tests. And so therefore we don't think that he has an intellectual disability and we want to execute him. Oh, and what's before the Supreme Court is how you count these multiple tests and more generally how you look at intellectual disability. I think what, um, this, uh, the person at issue is saying. And there have been amicus briefs from, um, the mental health professionals, the American Psychiatric Association and American Psychological Association. There have been amicus briefs from the AAIDD, the American Association on Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities, and along with the Arc and the Bazelon Center. Saying this is not a numbers game. This is not just about IQ tests. IQ tests are used in diagnosing intellectual disability, but that's one piece, that is one factor, and there's a much more holistic test that we look at. Look at adaptive functioning, and it's not simply do you meet this number or don't you meet this number. And so I think Leah pointed out that the definition of intellectual disability is not just about executing people. In fact, it is not typically about executing people. It's about many more things like who gets services and who counts for IDEA purposes, et cetera. This is, I think, a significant issue to be aware of. The Supreme Court is going to hear oral arguments in this case in December. I think it's December 10th. So stay tuned for that. But I just wanted to make people aware of that because it's one of the more significant disability cases that the Supreme Court has taken up in a while. And worth watching. And so I just wanted people to be up on it.

And forgive me, because I'm not sure about this, but if people listening say, oh my God, that's appalling, what do I do? I mean, do they write letters to who? Who do they send the letters to?

Yeah. So this one, I think right now it's not an action item so much because The Supreme Court is going to hear it and they've had the briefing, so they're going to decide it based on what the briefing is. But depending what happens, I think this is one where we need to see what the Supreme Court then says. And if there are concerns about what it says, then I think this is potentially a matter for Congress, potentially a matter for states. Um, and we can have a conversation about what to do to make sure that intellectual disability is considered how it was intended and not as, you know, whether you meet one number or not. So I think we need to, before taking action at this point, you know, see what the Supreme Court ends up saying, at least see how the argument goes.

Okay. Well, we are just so happy to have you keeping us apprised of what's going on. And we will— I know we will hear what happens from you. So thank you so much. Love you. Love our news break. And we'll talk to you next week.

Okay. Thanks so much.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. I am all about the news, you know, Molly. We don't have the ability to go to CNN— oh, here we are, here's what's going on in the disability world. And that is why I decided to do this, and we are the only place in the world that does this. So, um, I'm really proud to have her on the show, and we have been talking about 'Unseen: How I Lost My Vision and Found My Voice' by Molly Burke. And I will continue talking about this because I want you not only to go and buy it— here's a great, great holiday gift that you should purchase. We got to support her. You know, one thing Molly said, it so irritates me. When there are silos, you know, of people with disabilities. This group doesn't like this group. This group doesn't like this epilepsy group, and that epilepsy group doesn't like this because everyone's worrying about money and funding. And in the meantime, 70% of people with disabilities are not employed. Not all companies have accessible websites. You have more things to worry about Right, Molly?

We've got bigger fish to fry. And, and I think that's something that I'm constantly looking at is what are we advocating for right now? Let's be advocating the loudest for the most important things that are actually going to move the needle forward. And let's leave some other stuff, the little nitty pitty things that don't actually make the difference. So that we can focus all of our energy into getting simply equal rights. That's what we want.

Equal rights, that's right, that's what we want. Uh, so Molly, for young people, uh, with disabilities, across all disabilities, who are listening to you, uh, and don't know where to go for advice because they're facing bullying or barriers to employment, what is your message to them?

There are so many incredibly talented and entertaining disabled content creators across all social media platforms nowadays. You can find somebody like you. You can find representation on social media and connect with the community. Be in the comment section, join the support groups on Facebook, Be involved in the community because I know that for most of us with disabilities, we don't have somebody at school who's like us. We don't see ourselves represented, not just in media, but in our community around us physically in our day-to-day lives. So finding the community online to feel less alone, less isolated, to have understanding, to have resources that can tell you if this thing is this thing isn't accessible for you, try this thing. That is where you go. Find your community on social media.

Yeah, I mean, such good advice, such good advice. And you know, you've got to take a stand. You've got to take a stand. Molly, your role model, who is your role model?

That's a great question. You know, my mom has been my biggest source of hope and inspiration when I didn't have anything. And I feel very fortunate to have had the mom that I did and the dad that I did, because not everybody in our community has parents like mine who stepped up and they really advocated for me when I couldn't advocate for myself. But more importantly than that, they then taught me how to advocate for myself as I grew up. As I gained the strength. And they have been the biggest supporters of mine and they have been my biggest inspiration in my day-to-day life. And then of course, I think it goes without saying that within the disability community, Judy Heumann has been throughout my life such a source of hope and inspiration. And I try to be a part of carrying on her legacy and helping create the change that she was so passionate in carving. And without people like her, I wouldn't have the privilege of doing what I do today. So I really wear that with a badge of honor that she came before me and those like her, and that's the reason I'm able to continue to carry the torch.

Well, as I said to you before the show started, I had the great fortune of a friend of mine coming up to me saying, Joyce, listen, there's someone you have to meet. You've got to meet this Molly Burke. You've got to meet her. And you know, he's always looking out for me, so it's no surprise that he would connect me to you. And that would be Mr. Dan Sullivan, who called in to the show. So he is here on YouTube with us. Yeah, Dan, how are you today?

Good afternoon, ladies. How are you today?

We are nice to hear from you.

I, uh, it— I was reticent to, uh, join the party because I was just enjoying two of those iconic people that I have so much respect for in the disability inclusion space talk about something they're so passionate about. I'm— I almost feel guilty interrupting the conversation.

Never. Remember, it takes a person to connect people. Just so you know, I've known Dan for a long time and he's always trying to think, gee, how can I help get more people hired? How can I help Bender Consulting? But he is the head, I mean the chairman of the Molly Burke fan club. I mean, he tracked me down to— I mean, I'm not kidding you, he tracked me down to meet Molly. So tell me, Dan, when you first met Molly, I couldn't believe how she told me that great story about your son. Sure. Seeing that video on TikTok and saying, Dad, is this what you do? And you said yes. And then apparently you reached out to Molly.

Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting, um, you know, Joyce, one of the topics I've been really passionate about disability inclusion and accessibility, as being someone who's been in the space now for more than a decade, is the one thing that we know is individuals living with disabilities across the globe is something that's going to outlive all of us. And having people that are passionate to push that agenda forward and really drive the kind of change is multigenerational. And I've always thought we need new young leaders coming into the space that can communicate this topic and speak about this topic as passionately as you have and some of the other folks that have been out there for other generations, because eventually we're going to want to retire and let the younger generations take over these topics. And yeah, interesting story, right? These younger generations, they live on their phones. Social media is how they consume information and they learn what goes on in the world. You know, we keep hearing this term, meet them where they are. Well, younger generations are in those social media platforms. I do have two young— well, they're not so young anymore, but my youngest son about 5 years ago came running into my office with his phone saying, Dad, you got to stop what you're doing. You have to take a look at this video. Now, anybody that has teenage sons, you know that as a father you tend to brace because you have no idea what he is about to show you. But it was a video of this young woman in LA in the back of a cab demonstrating an accessible feature in a cab and using a screen with a touch interface to actually transact her cab ride and talking about accessible technology. And my son, who was I think 13 or 14 at the time, looked at me and said, "Now I understand what you do for a living." And it really dawned on me, right? Is I could talk about what I do over dinner, on the weekends and things of that nature, but until he saw someone that looked like him, seemed like him, interacting on an interface that he was used to, it really dawned on him, and it jumped out at me. And it was really with that that I reached out with Molly, and we've been working collaboratively together probably for the best part of 5 years now. She comes to all the big conferences with us. But I think another story that kind of is interesting, uh, Joyce, and you know, this is a Disability:In 2 years ago. It was at the Cosmopolitan Casino and Hotel in Las Vegas, a busy, crazy place. And one of the things that really jumped out at me is Molly was sort of coming to an event that we were holding, a dinner event, and she passed by a group of about 8 to 10 young women, about 20 to 23 years old, who had that sort of typical group of young people that you see that are enjoying, uh, all that Vegas brings and allows for. And I think they were done at the pool and they were going to their hotel room to get ready to go out for the night, and suddenly one of the women stopped in her tracks, took a look at Molly's dog Elton, who has as big a following as Molly does, and then looks at Molly and starts to screech. And two of the other women in this group realized that they were meeting Molly in person. These are not individuals, at least outwardly, that live with disabilities. These were people that were into fashion, were into makeup, were into social media, and they saw an influencer that they were super excited about. And to me, that was the transformative effect of what Molly brings. We preach to the choir all day long, but the ability to communicate with those individuals that don't have that knowledge and that understanding of people that live with disabilities all day long and can educate them is truly amazing. And that was to me something that was really transformative and, and sort of opened my eyes to the power that Molly has. I say this all the time, Molly is not a blind influencer, she's an influencer that happens to be blind. And there's a really big difference on that. And everywhere I go with Molly, I just marvel at the community out there that knows something about the world in which individuals with disabilities live with because they've learned it from Molly in a thoughtful, caring, and compassionate way. And to me, I will do anything to amplify that voice every day that I breathe.

Yeah. What do you think about him, Molly?

Thank you so much, Dan. That just makes me beam. We truly need non-disabled allies, right? As you said, we can't do this alone. We need non-disabled people who are the gatekeepers They have the power that we need. They need to help us open these doors. And for me, I realized everybody in the world has so much to care about. There are so many issues that we often only care about the ones that impact us or our immediate life and our loved ones. So I really saw social media as a vehicle to say, if I care about influencers that I watch, even though I don't know them and I believe in what they're saying and I believe in what they're doing and I'm passionate about what they're passionate about because I care about them, maybe I can do that for my community. Maybe I can use social media as a vehicle to show the non-disabled society, "Hey, I'm just like you except look at this barrier I'm facing because this isn't accessible," or, "Look at this barrier I'm facing because of social stigma." Isn't that so frustrating? Isn't that so annoying? Shouldn't we do something about that? And all of a sudden, all these people who had never thought twice about disability were like, wait, yes, that is annoying. That is frustrating because you are just like me. I see that now. So why don't you have the same rights? Why don't you have the same access? Why don't people treat you the same? So for me, social media was just as much about building community and representation within disability for, for our community to feel seen and connected as it was about reaching the outside community that has never thought twice about disability, that has never been impacted in their day-to-day life, to say, hey, this is one of those issues in society that you should care about before it impacts one of you or your loved ones, because eventually we know that it will, and you want accessibility to be there for you when you need it.

Yes, that's right. When, uh, Dan and Molly— when my friend, uh, Eve Hill, who by the way was just in the Washington Post, uh, last week, uh, and she is the chair of the board of Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, which I'm so honored to be on that board, and Jennifer Mathis That's where she works, and she's known internationally. But Eve spoke at the White House during the Obama administration. I'll never forget, she looked out at these employers and she said, "Really? You really want to hire us? You really want to hire people with disabilities? Well, how about opening the door to your website so I can get in?" because if I can't get in, how the heck are you going to hire me? And that is so true. And actually, I say to everyone, and I told this to Molly, really stop telling me how wonderful I am and hire someone from me. Hire a person from Bender Consulting. Because guess what? If we don't, Who will? Well, like, I'm not in a field where I have all these competitors. You know why? It's hard. Isn't that terrible to say that it's hard? So here's what I have to say to you. Businesses that have 500,000 employees, hire one. Can you call me and hire one? One? One person with a disability? Can you hire one? We know you can't. And look at this brilliant, beautiful author celebrity on the show today. And Dan, I told all of my guests listening, so you know I'm going to have to keep my word, that next year on certain shows I'm going to have a co-host where we will both be interviewing the person on the show. And over the past few years, mainly it's been disability rights leaders heads or executive directors of huge nonprofits or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, authors, TV producers, people from a TV show, just across the board. I am going to have Molly as my co-host answering, asking some of those questions. And there's another reason I'm doing it. Because she's authentic. She's successful, but she also speaks with the firepower. See, I have firepower. My case, it's because when you have epilepsy, you have too many neurons firing off. So I always tell people, oh, that fits me. I've got the firepower, but she has firepower. And together, if we come to visit you, Mr. or Ms. CEO, Look out. That's what I have to say.

You're in trouble.

Out. Two things I would say to that, Joyce Bender. I've been a longtime listener, first-time caller. I know that for you to decide to share the mic, that's pretty impressive. And I think Molly is an outstanding candidate. And I would also say for those large organizations out there that really want to do a better job of educating and in humanizing, uh, individuals that live with disabilities in the workplace. Molly is an amazing speaker. Corporate engagements is— and that's how I came to know her. We hired her to come and do an event for us at CSUN. She spoke to a room. There wasn't a dry eye in the room. It was impactful. It was amazing. Um, you can do more than just buy Molly's book. Uh, bring her out, put her in front of your, your employment community, and not only will they embrace really that, but really seek to understand how they can help push the cause of identifying how they can hire individuals and integrate them into companies, uh, that live with disabilities on a daily basis. Because it takes a village, and we all have to be pushing this rock collectively to get there. We can't just rely on this small subset of our community that are truly passionate about this. We have to take the passion that you two have and instill it into other folks out there, and that really comes through education. And let me tell you, she's great at it.

Thank you so much.

I gotta run. I got 200 signed books from Molly's that we're sending out to folks that attended Disability:IN and our customers. But I just wanted to jump in and say hello and just let you know how grateful I am the two of my favorite people in the space have connected. And generationally, you know, bridging that gap is so important, and I really, I appreciate everything you two do on a daily basis. I'll jump and let you folks finish up.

Thank you. Thank you for calling in, Dan.

All right. Thank you. And what is the name of that book, Molly?

Unseen: How I Lost My Vision But Found My Voice.

Okay, now you heard it. I want you to go buy that book. And by the way, yes, I want Molly to be a speaker at your conference, but you know what else? I want to get her on the media with some of my friends who are national media people. And I want to see her someday in a movie where, yes, she plays a person who is blind. That's what I want to see. Because you know what? Please, please don't, don't have people without disabilities play us, whatever the disability may be, because you know what? They don't get it. You may think they do, but when we're watching it, we know they don't get it.

Right, Molly? Absolutely. And in an industry where there's so few roles that disabled actors are even considered for, to give it to a non-disabled actor who can play all the roles is so frustrating because it's so hard for disabled actors to even get a foot in the door. Foot in the door when the only roles we're being considered for are those that have our disability. And truly, there's so many little things that I as a blind woman do in my day-to-day life to accommodate myself that no sighted actor could ever know how to do or that I would do that bring that true authenticity to life on the screen. And that's what we need to create create change.

Yes, I agree with you 100%. Well, Molly, thank you for being with us. We end every show with a quote, and how do I know Molly knows this quote? "Hold your head high, look the world straight in the eye," said the great Helen Keller. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice. Make sure you repost this show. Go to Spotify, go to YouTube, go everywhere so you can see and/or hear this show. Share it with your friends. And in the words of Mary Brooker, when you get up tomorrow, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.