Newly Appointed Chairman of NCD

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Welcome everyone. Hope everyone's having a great day. To all of you in the United States, around the world. Special shout out to my friend Richard Roberts in Japan, Gang Young in South Korea, Cheryl Harris in Tunisia, and to Venyamin in Kazakhstan. So I have friends at the Embassy and all of those countries, which I've been to speak live at all but Tunisia. And I got to speak to Tunisia by Zoom, because when an embassy is looking for someone with ex— who is an expert on the employment of people with disabilities, the State Department frequently asks me to go speak. Well, the people I mentioned, I mean, my first two close friends, Richard and Gang Young. Let me tell you what, they became like disability advocates and they are today. And Cheryl is new because Cheryl is with Tunisia. And guess what? They're gonna be on, and later this year, Japan's gonna be on again. And after that, we're gonna have South Korea on. So we are celebrating Disability Around the World. And to all of you from China to Finland that listen to this radio show, remember what I always say, one person makes a difference. Tell other people about the show. Okay, here's my special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. Yoshiko, lead on. Wow, Yoshiko, I have talked to you now for 2 years or more at the beginning of every show, and I always will. So we remember what you and Justin Dart did for all of us. That's why when I went to Japan, I saw Lead On signs everywhere I went when I went to any disability groups. But we all love you. And I've got to tell you, Highmark has been our lead sponsor for 4 years. They are the most awesome company and they sponsor this show. But here's what's more important. They hire people with disabilities. See, that's where the rubber meets the road. I always tell people, don't tell me how wonderful I am. Don't say to me, wow, you have epilepsy and you have this company and what you do is so great. And I say, really? Hire someone. Hire someone with a disability. That's where the rubber meets the road. Not speeches, you know, not conferences. Hire someone. That's What makes the difference. And that is why I am so excited today. Oh, this is so exciting. Here we are in the new year, and guess what? This will be— you know how all year throughout the years I have on appointees from the new presidential administration? This is the first, and we are starting out with a powerhouse because we are starting out with the new chair of the National Council of Disability— on Disability, who was appointed by President Biden this year. And here he is with us. What more could you ask for? Andrés Gallegos, welcome to the show.

Joyce, thank you. Thank you so much. It's good to hear your voice.

Well, and thank you. It is an honor for us to have you on. But, you know, we do have listeners not only throughout the United States but around the world. So I thought it would be interesting for everyone to hear about you. So how about if we begin by you telling our listeners about you, about your background, you know, about how you became a disability— well-known disability advocate. Let's hear about you.

Joyce Bender, first of all, again, thank you so very much. It's truly— the honor is all mine. And thank you for all that you've done and that you do championing equality of opportunity for people with disabilities, not only here but throughout the world as well. Joyce, I joined this disability community in a fraction of a second in a horrific automobile accident. Now 24 years ago. As a result of the accident, I sustained a spinal cord injury to my 5th and 6th cervical vertebrae, resulting in quadriplegia. At the time, I was only 3 years into my law practice. I was also married with 2 young children, then ages 8 and 5. They, along with my wife Donna, were in the car with me when the accident occurred. By the grace of God, I was the only one that was seriously injured, although I have to say that my daughter, Alicia, suffered a broken elbow, which for an 8-year-old was pretty serious at the time. Before becoming a lawyer, straight out of high school, I enlisted into the United States Air Force, where I served for 14 years. I met my wife, who was also in the Air Force. And we met when we were stationed in Okinawa, Japan. I met— Okinawa!

Wow, that's where my friend is, Richard Roberts, with the State Department.

I noted that during the introduction. Yeah, that's great. So I mentioned my tenure in the Air Force to give a bit of context of where I was in 1996 when I sustained my spinal cord injury. While I was in the Air Force, I went to school during the evenings and attained my undergraduate degree, ultimately graduating from the University of Southern Mississippi when we were stationed in Biloxi, Mississippi. And then I started the first year and a half of law school in the evening program at St. Louis University School of Law. I left the Air Force to finish law school full-time, and we also wanted to settle down in one place. In the Air Force, every 3 to 4 years we were susceptible to being relocated to other assignments. So after my graduation from law school in 1993, we settled in Chicago where my family was. When I sustained my spinal cord injury, I was determined not to let it derail me from fulfilling the career that I worked so hard to attain. I spent nearly 6 months in the old Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago, And during that time, I continued to work with some of my clients. I was still learning this new me. And so, at the time of the accident, I was an associate attorney focusing on corporate and international trade— trade law. And then, over time, that morphed into healthcare law and also disability rights law. Now that transition in disability rights law, it occurred over a number of years, about 5 to 6 years post-injury. As a result of experiences that I was having trying to obtain healthcare services, basic things like a physical examination and not being able to obtain an eye care exam. For the first 5, 6 years post-accident, when I went to see my doctor, even for annual physical examination, I was seen while I remained in my wheelchair, and I was never weighed. And in one instance, my regular physician was out of town, and one of her partners filled in for her for an annual physical exam, which, of course, was done while I remained in my wheelchair. After she examined my upper body, she stepped back and said, "I assume everything below the waist is fine." And with that, she left.

Oh my God. What year was all of this? What year are we talking about?

This was 1999-2000. Oh, well after the Americans with Disabilities Act, correct?

That's right.

It just wasn't happening to me, but I, but I knew that I had the tools to do something about it. Similarly, Joyce Bender, I went down the street from my law firm in downtown Chicago, and I went to get an eye care exam, try to schedule one at an eye care center. I was told that if I couldn't independently transfer from my wheelchair onto the examination chair, which I can't, that I couldn't receive the examination. When the optometrist told me that, I naively said, "Okay, just let me know which of your other locations in the city I can go to to get the exam. And she told me that none of them would be able to accommodate me. So, the beautiful thing about Chicago and all big cities is that all of the major leading national eye care providers have multiple locations throughout downtown. And each of them, I was told the same thing. Unless I pay—

You know, I'm hearing this, and this sounds like it would be way pre— before ADA.

You would think, but I could tell you stories that just happened months ago that would just shock you. And so I couldn't get the examination. In one location, they offered to do a manual examination, but the optometrist admitted that she hadn't done one for 20 years. So we ended up filing national class action lawsuits against each of them and prevailed in all of them. —resulting in those providers installing rolling devices underneath their examination chairs to allow the chairs to move so that we can position our wheelchairs in its place. And in the event that we can't independently transfer onto the examination chairs, we also place the examination equipment on height-adjustable portable stands that roll to us, and all other equipment that are not on stands— but that are on tables are required to be on height-adjustable tables with sufficient knee and foot clearance to allow us to access the equipment comfortably. And so with that, I founded our law firm's National Disability Rights Practice, where our primary focus is on improving access to healthcare and wellness for persons across all categories of disabilities, which I continue to direct with some very talented and supportive and dedicated attorneys at Robins, Solomon Pat Limited in Chicago, where I've been a shareholder for the past 13 years. Now, in 2009, I was introduced to the late Marco Bristow, the CEO and founder of Access Living of Metropolitan Chicago, one of the country's premier centers for independent living. And I've been serving as a board member for Access Living for the past— going on now 10 years and was the immediate past chairman of its board of directors. Being affiliated with AccessAbility really taught me how to embrace my own disability, and having the privilege to work alongside with Marca, who was a friend and mentor, was just incredibly valuable to me. Every day was a master's class in advocacy. I also had the good fortune of being appointed for two terms to the Statewide Independent Living Council of Illinois and other disability task forces by multiple governors in the state. So my disability education, if you will, is derived from 24 years of lived experience and is rooted in the independent living movement and philosophy. I should also mention that I'm a board member of Disability LEAD, formerly known as ADA 25, Advancing Leadership Institute, which is the only nonprofit in the country that we know of that's training persons with disabilities to assume leadership positions on civic and governmental boards and agencies. Now, I, I would be remiss about sharing that both my children are now married, and we have two grandsons from my daughter, Alicia, who's the oldest, and my son, Andres, the second. Just graduated law school and just last week sat for the bar exam. So we're super excited. And Donna and I will be celebrating our 37th wedding anniversary this coming June.

Wow, what a story! That is— well, first of all, thank God you survived, and also thank you to you and your wife for serving our country. But you took this and you really paid it forward, and you really didn't just sit back and say, "Oh, that's terrible." You did something about it. So, I admire you, and I could see why so many people do. But I know this is just the beginning with you. So, thank you though so much for what you're doing., and on being selected as the chair of the National Council on Disability by President Biden. And I was going to ask you later on, but I've got to ask you right now. How did you feel? What did that mean to you? When you found out, when you found out?

Yeah, Joyce, it was a good thing I was sitting down when I was told because I was shocked. I knew there was a possibility that it could happen, but I certainly never expected in my wildest dreams that it would. If I were to go back in 1996 at the point of my accident, just trying to figure out what it meant to be disability and be immersed into the disability culture, I never would have imagined that I would have been in this position, you know, 24 years later. So, it's truly an honor and a blessing to be in this position.

I just want to make sure everyone that's listening understands here what happened. President Biden, the president, newly elected president of the United States, in his administration, there are certain people that they feel are so outstanding citizens. And they appoint them to, you know, different positions. Andres was appointed by the President of the United States to be the chair of NCD, and NCD is a standalone agency that is powerful. So, that is truly a great honor that was bestowed upon him because now, He is our voice to the president of people with disabilities, and how powerful is that? You know, you talked a lot about NCD, the National Council on Disability, about Mark, and I'm going to talk about that later on, but for our listeners, again, could you tell them what is NCD?

So the National Council on Disability is an independent federal agency of the executive branch of government. Now, some people believe that we're a national disability advocacy organization, which we are not. We are, in fact, independent, bipartisan, a federal agency. We're charged with advising the president, his or her administration, Congress, and federal agencies on policy matters affecting persons with disabilities. It consists of a professional staff of 11 persons who are incredibly, incredibly talented and hardworking, led now by our Executive Director, the smart and exceptionally talented Anne Somers McIntosh, who used to be NCD's Director of Legislative Affairs for just over 10 years.— and a 9-member council. 5 members are appointed by the President and the remaining 4 appointed by the majority and minority leaders of the House and Senate. Our council members are either persons with disabilities or have a connection to disability either as a parent or sibling or are recognized as strong disability advocates and leaders within their respective Communities. We have our roots— can be traced back to the Department of Education back in 1978 when we were created as a very small advisory council. We were transformed into an independent agency in 1984 and charged with reviewing all federal disability programs and policies. In 1986, Not a lot of people know this, but NCD recommended the enactment of the Americans with Disabilities Act and then drafted the first version of the bill introduced into the House and Senate in 1988.

Oh, I never knew that. Never knew that. Yeah.

Any discussion, Joyce, about the history of the Americans with Disabilities Act is not complete without a discussion of NCD's key role. Now, as one of the smallest independent federal agencies, by design, the Council does not conduct its work alone. The positions that we adopt and the advice that we formulate is directly influenced and shaped by the input that we receive from the diverse disability community directly and from a myriad of national disability advocacy and disability rights organizations. And through interagency collaboration, we formulate our policy recommendations based on that input so that, and as required, we convene stakeholders and engage subject matter experts to assist in gathering and analyzing data and other relevant information. So we really draw upon the community to get the information that we need to form our policy recommendations.

Wow. Yeah, so, so that's very informative, not just to all our listeners but to me. So what that means is, you were saying you're not like AAPD, which I'm proud to serve as an officer on, with your fan Maria Town, uh, but in addition to that, in addition, and they are advocacy, policy advocacy, you are in fact making recommendations, whether it's legislative or policy, to the President. That's correct.

That's correct. It's a heavy responsibility, but again, we draw upon AAPD and other national organizations to get input as we formulate those policies.

Well, feel free to call me when it comes to employment because you could probably— that is, of course, what I do for a living. But you could probably tell how, how I get so, you know, outraged about how the heck could we have double the unemployment, you know, of people without disabilities. It's so discriminatory, so terrible. So you probably— I can't imagine all of the things that you will be doing and working on. But I did have one other question. How is this information presented to President Biden? Like, how does he receive this information?

So, our policy advice is always captured in the four corners of our well-researched and investigative policy reports. Some of which we've had in the past the privilege of hand-delivering to the President or Vice President. That being said, given that the actions of the President are obviously guided by his handpicked advisors, practically speaking, we often rely on following up to those report releases through personal engagements with his close advisors and cabinet-level leaders. Now, what's exciting to the community and perhaps is not well known is that we have— and I believe it's the first time— someone seated in the Domestic Policy Council in the White House that is there to represent disability policy interests. And that's Dr. Kimberly Nasset. And as new leaders are seated across the president's cabinet, we'll be endeavoring to make those personal contacts. And consistently advise. So, we have on train not only to the Domestic Policy Council, but we'll be speaking with the President's Cabinet members as well as soon as they get appointed and in place. Wow.

Yeah, is it that great about the having— yes, that is the first time ever that we have had anyone on that Domestic Policy Council. Council, and that is so encouraging because now between you and that group, we really have a voice. We really have a voice. So, what do you— what are going to be some of your key policy issues in 2021? What are you going to be working on?

So, Joyce, given all that we've experienced for— the past 12-plus months, our abiding focus has to be on healthcare and the breadth of issues that are associated therewith. Foremost, all things COVID and addressing the harsh lessons learned and that we're still learning from the pandemic, including efforts to prioritize the vaccination of people with intellectual and developmental disabilities, as well as other persons Persons with disabilities that are at high risk for contracting the virus and for negative outcomes. We're going to be addressing accessibility to accessible healthcare, dental care, behavioral health, addressing the social determinants of health contributing to the disparities in health and health outcomes, addressing implicit and explicit bias against persons with disabilities in healthcare. Which has been exacerbated during the pandemic. The pandemic has unmasked an ugly and oftentimes deadly bias against persons with disabilities by healthcare professionals that we need to address. We're going to be advocating for dedicated funding for home and community-based services. The, the fight for the adoption of the U.S. Access Board's voluntary standards for accessible medical and diagnostic equipment. We're going to look not just to preserve but to strengthen our federal nondiscrimination rights to accessible healthcare and beyond. We want to recognize the importance and advocate for the protection of direct service providers and family caregivers. And we really need to look for solutions to address the dire communication needs of Persons who are deaf, hearing impaired, blind, visually impaired, and persons with cognitive communication disabilities in healthcare settings, among many other important, very important issues that we have to address. It's a long list, but that's not going to be our primary— that's going to be our primary focus, but not our sole focus. We're going to work We're working closely with our federal partners and legislators to work on commitments expressed in the President's Disability Plan, even as we advise for greater efforts. We're going to continue to educate policymakers on the incompatibility of our TANF disability programs and laws like the subminimum wage paid to people with disabilities. As you know, it's a relic. It's incompatible to national— modern disability goals and policies, as well as addressing the Medicaid cliff, where certain persons with disabilities who rely upon Medicaid's employment support services lose them as a result of incremental employment income gains. And in the months ahead, we're going to highlight the disparities in eligibility for and receiving benefits under certain federal programs that exist between United States citizens with disabilities residing in our territories, primarily focused in Puerto Rico, as compared to those, their disabled counterparts residing in the mainland and in Hawaii. So that's just some of the things we're going to be accomplishing this year.

Wow. Well, that's a big— that's a lot. I mean, that's a— you know, and you talked about dealing with COVID people with disabilities. I mean, there are, as you said, so many things, but one is, and that's huge, it's just healthcare disparity. I mean, you know, people getting selected to get a ventilator over a person with a disability. You know, you could go on and on. You already know healthcare disparity by what you went through. You know, in your life. But, um, but you are so— you know, we have seen so many horrible things. And then, as you mentioned about, um, congregate settings, you know, Marcy Roth was on the other day talking about how many thousands and thousands of people have been, uh, killed through congregate settings like a nursing home that had disabilities. And, uh, there is— and now we have to go through this all over again of what's going to happen with vaccines, especially—

what's scary to us, Joyce, is this is not going to be the only pandemic that we're going to face in our lifetime. So We need to learn the lessons, but as we're still in the midst of this, we really need to make sure that there's equitable outcomes for the vaccinations and that the populations and subpopulations of people with disabilities that are critically in need of receiving the vaccination get it on a priority basis. That's what we're working towards then.

Well, I hope that— I mean, I know we have to work toward that. I know it's an enormous job because it has impacted so many things. But I'm so glad we're going to have you working on that. You know, President Biden, well, first of all, he has a disability and he makes that clear that he has a disability, but he is very committed to quality of life and employment for people with disabilities. What does that do for you and NCD?

Oh, my. You know, leadership makes a difference, particularly as it relates to issues affecting people with disabilities. When the President of the United States articulates that he will prioritize enacting and implementing policies that will break down barriers to access for people with disabilities, barriers that prevent us from living and succeeding in our chosen communities, and a commitment to removing barriers that prevent our access to good jobs, and competitive integrated employment, affordable and accessible integrated housing, accessible and affordable transportation, and providing needed long-term services and supports, it makes a significant difference. The president— the president's commitment to the disability community is evident by the fact that he not only articulated those things and much more, but he created a disability-focused position on the Domestic Policy Council, as I mentioned, and my designation as the Chairman of the National Council on Disability occurred on the afternoon of his inauguration. It tends to be a priority for him. So, I want to be clear, though. You know, we are an independent federal agency, but when our vision and our part— policy priorities are aligned with the President's, and the President articulates that he wants to accomplish those things, it enhances the prospects of measurably improving the lives of people with disabilities through the work that we do.

You know, wow. Once again, you get that appointee designation January 20th. I mean, this must have really blown you away, really. I mean, I can't even imagine.

It was a good thing I was sitting down.

No question. And I'll bet your family is so excited.

You know what, they keep me humble. They pat me on the back and then, you know, they razz me after that. So they keep me grounded, which is good.

Yeah, well, I know they're proud. Well, you know, it's a big deal. We know it is, and we're very proud. Proud to have someone like you, even hearing you talk, that is in this role. Now I have to tell you, you mentioned Marca earlier when you talked about being the chair, and I have to tell you, it was a terrible day when she passed away. And I had seen her at an event not that many months before, and she told me, you know, that it doesn't look like I'll be around for long. And, you know, it was just so hard for me to imagine that. So the other day I went to, uh, into, you know, looked up NCD Marca, and what came up then was this interview with different people like Tom Harkin talking about her, talking about Marca. Yeah. And, um, and how— and I— anyway, it may— it brought tears to my eyes, you know, just thinking about losing her. Because, you know, she's one of those people, you say the name Marca, there's only one Marca. It's only one Marca, only one. I, I went to Chicago, I went to one years and years ago, I went to one of the, uh Disability Pride parades, and then afterwards we all went out and celebrated at the park, and she had a band, a group, actually I think it was a choir now that I think, but anyway, they were all deaf, and they were singing like an R&B type song, and I just thought, wow, I mean, this is so great, I love this. You're so fortunate that that was your mentor.

Without question. I mean, Marca paved the road that we're traveling on right now, and we owe an extreme debt of gratitude to her and her family for everything that they've done for the disability community, not only domestically but internationally as well.

Yeah, well, when she was appointed chair by President Clinton all the way back to 1994, guess what I heard her speak? Because she was at one of the last signings or events during President Clinton's time, which was the Ticket to Work at. And she got up and spoke, and I just thought, wow, this woman is unbelievable. You know, then we became friends after that. But she, she knocked out so many barriers. With you, what did her mentorship mean to you? Like, how did it impact— what impacts did it have on you?

Yeah, Marka was just An amazing advocate, an amazing leader. She was one of the most influential voices of the disability rights movement, not only in the country, but internationally as well. She set a standard of excellence in leadership that no one's going to be able to match. As chair, Martha led the Council's efforts to strengthen the Americans with Disabilities Act. At a time when the courts were chipping away at its protections, she led a concerted effort to change the perception of disability rights so that they are viewed in the same way as women's rights, children's rights, or racial minority rights. Disability rights are human rights, and the Americans with Disabilities Act is an articulation of the human rights of persons with disabilities in this country. She recognized that the ADA was model legislation for countries throughout the world and pushed for an international human rights law to provide equality and justice for persons with disabilities abroad. Not only was she instrumental in having the United Nations adopt the Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities, she led the efforts for the United States to ratify it. That unfortunately has not yet happened, but certainly it was not as a result of a lack of effort or of a lack of leadership on behalf of Margaret Brown. You know, she was determined not to have the Council viewed simply as an agency that wrote pretty reports, but that its policy recommendations be respected and acted upon. Reports are recommendations we make should be actionable. I got to tell you that in the summer of 2019, the Council had a meeting in Chicago at Access Living. It was during that time that Martha was undergoing chemotherapy, and not many people knew about that. As you know, she was very private in her struggle until the very end. Mm-hmm. I had wanted her to come speak to the council, and she thought she'd be able to, but we didn't know until that morning whether she could because she had chemotherapy. But she did, and what she told us was to push, to ensure the policy recommendations that we make are, in fact, actionable, and encouraged us not just to make those recommendations but to advocate for them. Now, if I want to share a memory about Marca and her good friend, another godmother of the disability rights movement, and that's Judy Heumann, who I know you know well. So, back in 2017, when Congress was considering the skinny repeal of the Affordable Care Act, which would have cut and capped Medicaid, Among other things, the disability community was activated in both Marca and Judy's lead demonstrations in D.C. and in the Capitol Building, which ultimately led to their arrest. In 2018, while still chairman of the board of Directors of Access Living, at our annual gala, we honored Judy with the Read On Award. In my opening remarks, I recounted the that event and warned the audience that at some point police may interrupt our gala, because whenever Judy and Marka were together, inevitably police would show up. When they were together, they measured a good day if one of them got arrested, and a great day if both of them got arrested. And for our benefit, thank goodness, they had many good days and had many more great days.

Yeah, they were making that good trouble. Absolutely, they were making that good trouble. Yeah, I know, uh, how close they both were, uh, and how much she— I'm going to tell you how much Judy loves her and misses her. You know, if you— anyone that's listening, if you subscribe to my show the podcast. Just go to Apple or Spotify and you'll see all the upcoming shows and can listen to all the other shows. Or if you go to my website and you just go back last year, we replayed a show that— with Marca from many years before that. And do you know, uh, it keeps track of of like top hits and sends it to me. And you cannot believe how many people listen to that show. Sure. Just to hear her talking, you know, hear her voice again. How about NCD? What— how do you think she impacted NCD?

Again, she, she set the standard for all other chairs to follow, and it's just, uh, it's a very, very high standard. So, you know, as I mentioned, the issues that she confronted while she was there, she really helped protect the cuts into the Americans with Disabilities Act that was taking place through a number of judicial decisions, including Supreme Court decisions. So she really positioned National Council on Disability to be an influential voice for the disability community.

Well, and now here we have another powerhouse with you, and I— that's the beginning. It's just the beginning with you. So, um, what you, you already are saying what you are going to focus on for 2021, but what do you believe is the most important impact you can have? At NCD?

You know, Joyce, I, you know, it's not the impact that I can have. It's the impact that we collectively as a Council, all 20 of us, the talented professional staff and the equally talented and committed Council members. Look, if we're able to accomplish and achieve the issues that I've identified as part of our agenda, we would have made remarkable improvements in the lives of persons with disabilities in the country. For example, if we're able to have people with disabilities in general designated as a medically underserved population, that opens up the possibility for federally financed research— research in the health issues affecting our community. In the United States, if The federal government indicates regions or groups of need of priority access to certain healthcare resources by designating them as medically underserved populations. With that designation, federally funded resources are provided to designated underserved populations to address the shortage of health services or the shortage of physicians that are trained in addressing their needs. It also means federally funded research to address the health disparities, the significant health disparities that exist between persons who are disabled and their non-disabled counterparts. Part and parcel of that is the mandatory inclusion of disability cultural competence curriculum in medical schools and in professional schools of all branches of medicine so that early on in their professional healthcare careers, they receive education and training on the needs of people with disabilities. That exposure alone, if we're able to accomplish that, will make a significant difference in addressing the health disparities that exist between persons with disabilities and those without. You know, the "we" that needs to accomplish that and the many more important things on our agenda includes the broader we that includes your listeners who upon learning of our initiatives can call their representatives and urge them to support the work that we are doing and the things that we are trying to achieve.

I wanted to ask you, what— you are so amazing. I have like so enjoyed talking to you today. And you have such passion and that comes from somewhere.

Who is your role model? My— so the passion really comes from my Chilean roots and my family. I have many role models. When you look at— in the disability community, you look at Marca and you look at Judy Heumann and others. But look, I mean this with all sincerity. I'm just a placeholder. And so, when I look at the staff at the National Council on Disability, the support staff, our accountants, our finance people, our HR people, our public affairs support, they are the ones that make the Council grow. And they make my position just incredibly, incredibly easier as a result of that. And then when you look at these attorneys and the professional staff that we have, They're just remarkable. And the chair of the National Council on Disability is typically a 3-year term. And so they have a change of leadership quite often. And yet they continue. They are steadfast in what they do, and they're incredibly talented, incredibly dedicated. And so they inspire me, and they cause me to do the best that I can possibly can do. With the time that I have in this position. So, I'm just so grateful to be working with them and to be in this position. I'm driven by my family. My wife gets me out of bed every single day. She has never let me feel sorry for myself for what happened during the accident, and we haven't looked back in decades. And so, that, my kids, my grandkids, I have a lot A lot of people rooting for me and pushing me along the way, so I'm not alone in this journey.

You're not alone, but you are our leader and you're a good one. You're— I know a lot about you and I know that we are fortunate to have you as our leader. So, you know, when you had that accident, now, Sadly, not everyone reacts the way you did. You know, you had this, you had this, it didn't stop you. You know, it didn't change you as far as, "Oh, I'm not going to be normal. Oh, poor me, I'm not going to make it." I mean, I'm sure you know there are people, I remember when Martha called me, how furious she was when that movie came out, Million Dollar Baby. I still remember her calling me because, you know, of helping someone take their life. I remember her saying, do you know how many people I could call if I said to them, how did you feel right after this, that would say, I didn't even want to be here, and that, and that now they would die, no pun intended, if they weren't here? So, how about you? Like, look what you did. You really paid it forward. You didn't let this stop you at all. What do you attribute to that?

You know, Joyce, I guess at the time of the accident, I had two young kids that were dependent upon me. I had my wife who loved me and supported me, and I just knew I had to continue on. Them, but also, you know, I worked hard to get where I was at that point, and I wasn't going to let that go. You know, I had the benefit and the blessing of being in a profession where I didn't need to reinvent myself after the accident. I only needed to reinvent how I did things. There were individuals in the Rehab Institute of Chicago with me that were doctors.— and they also sustained high spinal cord injuries like me. And they couldn't go back to operating, so they opted to abandon medicine altogether. And how heartbreaking is that, that they couldn't go back and do what they were trained to do, what they invested so much of their life to learn and to perfect. But they didn't do that because they perceived themselves as being unable to do that, because they perceived themselves as being unwelcome in that profession because there are so many— there's few people in wheelchairs you see in the healthcare profession. In the legal profession, I can't tell you how alone I felt in a room of 300 attorneys. In a continuing legal education conference right after my accident that I attended in the city. It was— I'll never forget this— it was conducted at the Drake Hotel, the beautiful Drake Historic Hotel in downtown Chicago. To get to the conference room where the continuing legal education symposium was being held, I had to enter through the back of the hotel through a loading dock, passed through the kitchen, and up freight elevators to get into this room. And when I got into this room, I was placed in the back, and there were 300 attorneys in front of me. And when they passed by during breaks, the looks that I received, some were just— looks of sadness in their eyes. Others, they looked away after they made eye contact with me because I was the only one in a wheelchair. And for a number of years, I found myself in the same position, being one of very few or the only one in meetings within my profession where I was the only one in a wheelchair. Things have changed now, thankfully, that there's more people, there's more attorneys in wheelchairs. There's more professionals in wheelchairs, and so it's not as strange or uncommon as it used to be, but it was when I was first injured.

Wow, I mean, it's that terrible. I remember those days, though, friends of mine going up the freight elevator, going through a kitchen. Yeah. I know, I know, we've made a lot of progress, but we still have a very long way to go. Did you have a lot of friends treated you differently after this, Andres?

I did. I did. And there were some people who I thought they were friends, but they took a different direction after my accident. And look, adversity, it just brings out the best or brings out the worst or brings out the true person. And so, and that's fine. That's fine. It happens. Look, let me tell you how much progress we've made over the years, over the 24 years. There has not been an expression of pity for me or expression of sadness until people learn that I'm an attorney. Then it's, "Oh my gosh, how did that happen? Is there a cure for that?" Now everyone's accepting my disability. We've made progress, significant progress, Joyce.

We have. Yeah, that good old is there a cure? You don't know how many times people ask me that about my epilepsy, did I think it would go away and I could stop taking medication? But that's just, you know, that's just, I don't know, sometimes I say to myself, André, and I'm sure you have wondered this too, but Why do people look at us, you know, why do people with disabilities have this high unemployment? You know, why is there such stigma? You know, what is it about us that cause that, I mean, not cause it, but that have to live with that? You know, it really is sad, but it is changing. You are right that we have come a long way from when I started in this Bender Consulting Services 26 years ago, but we still have a ways to go. And the one big area is employment. So I know I have you. I mean, I understand, I agree with you about, you know what I'm worried about, Judy, you know what I'm worried about with COVID I'm worried about what will it be like after for people with disabilities in employment. That's what I'm worried about. So, you know, we'll hopefully, you know, we'll be able to handle that and bring light to anything that needs brought, you know, that we need to see worked on. But anyway, Andres, it was a pleasure having you on the show today, a pleasure. And I wanna say we are all proud of you. And all people with disabilities listening, or without, we all wish you only the best in this very prestigious role you have.

Joyce, thank you so very much.

Thank you for having me. Well, final question, what message do you have for our listeners?

Joyce Bender, again, I want to thank you, truly thank you for having me on your program. Program. You know, the message for your listeners today is just this: In a fraction of a second 24 years ago, I joined this beautiful, diverse disability community, a community that today is over 61 million people in the United States. That's approximately 26% of the country's population and growing. So that's 1 in 4 persons in the country who report having a disability. If a disability has not affected you or your family yet, statistically it may soon, as anyone can join this community at any time. For 43 years, there's been this small independent federal agency that has been a powerful voice for this community, the national voice of this community. Speaking to the most influential leaders of this country to enact the much-needed change so that we can have equality of opportunity and full inclusion into every aspect of our society. 20 of the most talented and dedicated people of various races, age, gender, religion, nationalities, and political affiliations at the Council all working together to improve the lives of people with disabilities. It's a privilege to serve as the Chairman of the National Council on Disability and to lead those efforts for the benefit of our community. And lastly, Joyce, if I can— if I could ask those who are listening to follow us. Visit us on our website at NCD.gov to see our reports, our correspondence, and our latest news. You can also follow us and find us on Facebook under National Council on Disability, on Instagram @NCDgov, and on Twitter @NATCOUNDIS, N-A-T-C-O-U-N-D-I-S.

Well, we will do that. I want to say one other thing. If you're listening to this show and you're thinking, oh my goodness, I I wish this other person had heard the show. You know what you've got to do? You've got to send them, because it's on demand. They can hear it again, they can hear it at any time, because this podcast will be there all the time. So much thank you to our listeners. And we end every show with a quote, and today it is from Senator Tom Barkin, who said, "When people with disabilities look back on disability history, they will remember the civil rights fight of Marca Bristow." This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. I look forward to talking to you next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.