North Way Christian Community Church

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender.

All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone in the United States and around the world, welcome to the show. And before we go further, I just want to I want to extend my sympathies to my friend, Senator Elizabeth Dole, with the loss of her husband, Senator Robert Dole, a great leader and champion for the country. But if you don't know, loved by the disability community. Loved. He did so much. When the ADA was signed, he was always there for people with disabilities. Forget about this, you know, partisan whatever. He was never like that. That, you know, it didn't matter if you were a Democrat. Of course, he was a Republican. One goal, fighting the fight for people with disabilities. As I'm sure you know, he incurred a disability in World War II. But the whole community and everyone at Voice America, we express our sympathies. And I want to say again, Senator Elizabeth I love you, and I send my wishes to you, and I look forward to seeing you. So, you know, Yoshiko Dart's listening right now, and Yoshiko's shaking her head, right, Yoshiko? Because you know how much he did for people with disabilities. And Yoshiko Dart is one of my heroes. She is the wife of the late Justin Dart from several years ago. And Justin, you know you've made it when you're a Jeopardy question. Justin was a Jeopardy question. But Justin was a great leader for the disability community. And in that iconic photograph of the day President Bush signed the ADA, he is on the stage with him and a few other people in his wheelchair. He had polio. And he just was a great person. You know what bothers me? I'll tell you. If I would go out on the street today, walk up to people, "Hey, who's Justin Dart?" They would say, "What?" But if you go to anyone anywhere in the world, including when I went to Japan and walked in and saw all these big signs, "Lead On, Justin Dart," and we've got to do something about that. We've got to do something. So listeners, you're going to be excited to know that I am in conversations with the History Center Heinz History Center, as we're talking to our disability history group here in southwestern Pennsylvania. You all know I'm in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Trying to figure out how we could archive those shows. Why? It really bothers me that people don't know we have a history also. But anyway, Yoshiko, shout out to you. I love you. And to all the countries around the world. That listen to this show. China, our largest audience, but then Australia, Japan, Canada, Germany. Oh, I could go on. Well, I'm going to. Let's see who else. South Africa. Oh, and to all of you in South Africa, including my friend Colette, please everyone be safe with this new variant. But thank you so much. For following this show, and the United Kingdom, France. Just looking to all this data I got: Mexico, Egypt, Spain, New Zealand, Puerto Rico, Singapore, Finland, Netherlands. Now, some of these countries, such as Egypt— do you know there's only one person listening? I want to say to that one person, Whoever you are, you are helping me change the way people in Egypt will look at disabilities. You know, you're a champion to me. No matter where you are of all these countries, you're all champions to me because you are spreading the news. This radio show has been on 18 years, and I must thank my sponsor, Hy-Mark. The greatest company, period, who is the sponsor of this show for years now, the lead sponsor. And no surprise because they were the company that helped get me started and every CEO has stood behind me since that day. So thank you, Highmark, Richard Roberts, Gangyung Vinyamin, Cheryl Harris, All of you with the State Department that support our efforts, I thank you. Now, today, I'm so excited. I could not think of any other two people I would have as guests on my birthday than Pastor Scott Stephens and Pastor Dave D'Angelo. As I'm saying this, I have a big smile on my face. I'm so excited. We have listeners around the world listening to the show. And Pastor Scott Stephens, just so you You know, he asked me if he could be a call-in guest. I told him he can call in any time because he so loves radio and television and the media. I'm so thrilled to have him with us today. But I'm going to start with you, Pastor Dave D'Angelo. As you just heard, we have listeners not only throughout the United States, but in other parts of the world. That do not know you, and I always like people to tell their story, you know, versus me say, uh, what your job is and, you know, what you're doing right now. But how about you? You know, let's hear about you. What's your story?

Yeah, sure, Joyce. Thanks for—

thanks for having us on the show. We're flattered and humbled, I'm sure. And of course, on All Days, your birthday. So you spent the first opening few minutes celebrating so many other people. You need to be celebrated too. Especially today on your birthday. You're a difference maker in our world and your work is immeasurably important. So thanks for having us and happy birthday, Joyce. Thank you. Hey, real quick, just as far as my story, I grew up in Pittsburgh, born and raised in the area, North Hills-ish of Pittsburgh, born and raised in a smaller community, great Great family values. I'm 100% Italian, so born and raised with a lot of Italian culture in my family. Family was important to us. Went to high school at Riverside High School, then went on to college at Geneva College. Got to play baseball while I was there and study communications. Started working shortly after graduation at Geneva in the admissions world, helping students select college and promoting Geneva and all it had to offer. After that, I went to graduate school at Duquesne. I studied— and I tell this to people, I don't know why because I'm still not even sure what it means— but my degree was in rhetoric and the philosophy of communications. I love the process of communicating. I love words and believe that words create worlds for people, and it's important to pay attention to the words we use day in and day out, so I studied it a lot. Eventually, I left after getting my degree. And went to work at a church in Ohio. It was a church called, uh, New Point Community Church. I went as a director of communications and was responsible for everything point, click, screens, everything sort of digital that the church did. And I was there for about 10 years, and over the course of that 10 years, that's actually when I stepped into, uh, pastoral ministry. I started in, in the student ministry area and then grew into young adults and then and just morphed as the church was just rapidly expanding and growing. And that's located over in sort of the northeast, north-central Ohio area, right around the Football Hall of Fame, if you're familiar with where that is in Ohio. So yeah, I was there for about 10 years, and then the last 5 years, going on 6 now, in this January, I will have been at Northway Christian Community as a pastor here. So that's a brief synopsis, Joyce. I hope I covered everything you were looking for as far as my story.

Sure. Now, what do you do at Northway?

Yes, I'm a pastor here on staff, and the title is— it's a lead pastor role. And so, you know, as far as primary responsibilities is, I focus on working with all of our campus teams. We have locations all throughout the city of Pittsburgh. I focus on our weekend services and primarily the teaching aspect of that. And then, you know, I'm largely responsible for the vision of the church and directing and helping get it resourced and making sure it's communicated clearly. And I sit with a team, just an amazing team. Scott's on that team called our Directional Leadership Team, and we ultimately handle the leadership responsibility for the church as far as big picture decisions and allocating resources and budgets. Tending to our culture of our church and our staff. So, that's in a nutshell about what I do.

Well, I don't think you did as well as you thought in that class, that degree in rhetoric, because I— here's how you say it, and now I'm a pastor here. Well, he's like a little bit more than just a pastor there. He's the lead pastor over how many locations do we have, Pastor Dave?

Yeah, we have 6 locations, and then our, you know, due to COVID and everything that we've all experienced through the pandemic, we're a pretty wide-reaching digital experience. We don't call it a campus, but it functions very much in a similar fashion to a campus. So 6 physical locations plus everything we're doing online, um, to help reach people.

Well, you are being so humble, but like, that is good, but you still have to tell people what you do. I mean, you still have to tell them you are a big shot there. So I will tell everyone, he is over everything at Northway Christian Community Church and is also over all of the staff. And I do not know, how many people How many people go, like, to Northway, would you say, for a service, like, on Sundays? If you include morning and the 11 o'clock?

Yeah.

Yeah, so if you're thinking at all of our locations currently, it's— there's about 2,500 people in attendance, plus, you know, 500 to 700 households that join in online on the weekends. And so pre-COVID, it was for 4,300 people, 4,300 people, and now COVID has sort of shifted us into a hybrid in-person and digital experience model.

So it's a lot of people.

It's a lot of area all throughout the Pittsburgh region, and we're excited about having multiple locations, and we're frankly looking forward to launching more locations because I don't think light is ever bright enough in our dark world, and so more churches means more light in the Pittsburgh region. So yeah, that's about how many people we have.

And so now, for those countries, all the people that listen to my show, why I'm asking you this is they, too, can get the show digitally because it's saved, right? They could get that through YouTube? Is that the way they would get to participate?

Yeah, we broadcast everything out on a lot of different platforms. If you just visit our website, northway.org, there's a link there for every single message and all of our digital resources. We have a— we have a December podcast that's going out along with our teaching series. We have some amazing Advent resources from last year that are resurfaced all through our social media and through YouTube. And, you know, if you Google Northway, you can find your way to anything that we've put out in the last, last couple of years.

And I would really encourage you to do that. I mean, you know, I go to this church, therefore, just so you know— oh, wait a minute, Pastor Dave, also you went to the best college in the United States.

That's right, we both are And where did I go?

Geneva. And boy, you played baseball at that really championship sports college. I'll bet Pastor Scott followed baseball at Geneva the way he does the Pirates because we were such phenoms. And I want to also add my maiden name is Saletti. So we have more in common than you maybe knew. So there you go. And I also grew up in a small town. And what I was saying before, I go to this church, I love this church, but we have great pastors like the two on with me today. And you've got to go, you got to go. You can go now digital if you're not— well, you can watch it streaming if you are also in the United States. But I am saying Canada and around the world, you can attend the services if you do not have a church you can go to in person. So that— I think that is just so awesome. So here we go, Pastor Scott, my pastor. Pastor Scott, you are ready. He is ready for me. See, he is my pastor. He is the first person that I really, really connected with right from the beginning, uh, and I love him so much, as I love Pastor Dave. But I must admit, I do like to harass Pastor Scott the most. That's why I said he loves being on my radio show. But Pastor Scott, would you mind sharing with our listeners your story for, again, people around the world or people in the country, just so they'll know a little bit about you?

Sure. Happy birthday, Joyce. Thank you.

Fighting.

I didn't— I didn't— yeah, love you. Uh, my story. So yeah, similar to Dave, grew up in Pittsburgh all my life. Um, sort of felt teaching was going to be my path that I was going to go to. I had a real heart for kids, particularly kids on the edge, kids in sort of troubled situations either at home or economically. Kids from difficult places. That was really my heart, so I taught in the city for a while. And then I really would just say that I slowly drifted into ministry, started volunteering at a church, started volunteering with a Young Life group, and it was there that, you know, that I gained a passion for ministry and was faced with a decision to continue to go the teaching path or to step into ministry. And I guess it's been about 30 years or so ago that I stepped into the ministry side. I've been at Northway for 20 years now, and I've held several different roles while I was there. I am married, I have 2 grown daughters, got 3 grandkids. Um, yeah, I think that's Anything you want me to dig into particularly, Joyce, or?

Aren't you a Pirates fan?

Yeah, it's hard to admit that at times, especially right now, but yes, I love baseball and I still love my Pittsburgh Pirates, as challenging as that can be at times.

Me too. We're the only two in Pittsburgh, but yes. No, no, Scott Hammerstrom. That would make 3. And you know, I always say there is a great— so great to serve God and be a pastor, but there are some other things you have to deal with. Like, I remember Pastor Scott talking one day, saying about how when he goes to a party, you know, what do you say to everyone? "What do you do?" And then when they tell you, "What do you do?" "Uh, well, I am a pastor." And then everyone runs away as fast as they can. To get away from the pastor.

They do, or they try to think about what they just said and wondered if it was offensive or profane, or— yeah, so I love it. It is fun sometimes too, like you're sitting at a tavern and you're having a beverage and someone says, hey, what do you do? And you say, pastor. And they try to recall what it was, the story they were just telling you. So it's, it's, it's That's right.

You know what, when that— oh, I'd love to see that. People sitting there using profanity, telling terrible stories, and then they finally do, 'Oh, what do you do?' Oh, I love to see their face. Love it, love it. Well, um, Pastor Scott, uh, when you were growing up, did you ever think you were going to be a pastor? Like, did you plan that?

Oh wow, no. Yeah, no, Joyce, I didn't grow up going to church. We were not a church-going family. It was, um, you know, we'd show up from time to time when my mom could get us there. I grew up in sort of a pretty, pretty dysfunctional home, um, a lot of, a lot of alcoholism and violence. And, uh, so church just was not anything that we did. We, every now and then, like I said, my mom would get us there, but In my late high school years, I— someone invited me to a youth group, a Young Life club, and there I met like this young couple that modeled something completely different. When I thought about church, I did not think about young people that loved to have fun and were fun to be around. Frankly, I thought about a lot of rules and a lot of regulations and a lot of being told to be quiet and behave. So these folks introduced me to something brand new. Faith, not necessarily religion, but faith, and particularly faith in Jesus Christ. And I was drawn to them, and I went to a retreat that they invited us to, and it was there that like I sort of heard that Gospel for the first time in a way that I could understand, and stepped into it, and, you know, started growing in my faith. And then I started volunteering as I was through college, and out of college volunteering in and around youth ministries, and it was there that like just this concept of maybe doing this as a career, as a vocation, became something that interested me. And yeah, so it was a really slow transition from not knowing anything about God to sort of understanding God to sort of sensing this call that maybe that was what I was supposed to do. So really being drawn to helping kids that were in situations like mine that maybe came from fatherless situations or difficult situations, kids that maybe grew up thinking church is boring and it's a bunch of rules and it's, you know, not for them, to trying to encourage kids to, to check it out and take that step and, and, uh, and learn about Jesus, learn about their faith. So that was a, a slow, a slow dial for me to turn from being who I was to becoming a pastor.

And look at the two of you now, what great pastors you are. And you know, at Northway, I just want to tell you, Pastor Scott, Pastor Dave have really been, uh, pushing the civil rights, social justice forward in so many areas, but I have got to tell you, that includes a center in Swickley for parents of children with autism. And you know, how many parents do I know that would never dream of going to church because they are afraid their child will be disruptive, you know, and I always say, oh, you are afraid of that, really? I cannot picture Jesus saying, "Out of here right now! You are disruptive!" But they are worried, and then they do not get to go. And here it is, Pastor Scott, is that at Swickley? Am I right? Swickley, Pennsylvania?

Yeah, it is being piloted right now at our Swickley location. We are working with a few families, just trying to learn some dos and don'ts and to get it right. We have found sometimes with this community that you don't get a lot of chances, that if they're going to bring their kids in and trust you with them. So we really want to try to work out, um, the ministry and get it right before we swing open the doors in 2022. And then we'll begin to launch autism spaces at our other locations starting Next with Wexford and then moving from there. And you nailed it. It's to try to allow parents the opportunity to come to church together. I've read that alarming statistic that parents with a child of autism, they are much more susceptible to divorce and struggles. And I think some of it is that they just don't have a chance to be in a faith environment. Together. So our spaces are created to create a caring space for a child, also a learning space for that child with whatever it is that— wherever they are on the spectrum, to meet them there, to encourage them with the Gospel, but to allow parents to be able to step into a church service and know that their child is, is not disrupting anything, that they're being loved and cared for and know that they belong. And then also opening up those spaces for other things like marriage enhancement classes or small groups, and again, so that the child can be cared for in an environment that's safe for him. So I saw this when I visited a church out in Cincinnati and fell like passionately in love with it, came back and said, "Man, we just have to do this at Northway." And it's It's been a long time coming, and we're still raising resources and putting it together, but I think it's one of the things that I'm most excited about in ministry over the last many years.

And you know, that thrills me. And I know that all my listeners know, you know, I'm a woman living with epilepsy. I'm also hard of hearing, and that I would not go to a church that I felt did not include people with disabilities. I remember, I think, you know, I have been going to Northway for 20 years. That is probably when I met you right at the beginning, Pastor Scott. But, you know, no sign language interpreters. So I called Jenny Thornburg, "Jenny, I do not think I can get them to have sign language interpreters. What can I do?" She said, "Think of another way." I said, "Okay." So on our little offer card, it had a space, "Other." Now remember, we didn't have any sign language interpreters at this time. Oh, here I am every week giving all this money because I knew, okay, if I give enough money, they're gonna have to do something. And they did, and they still do. So I'm gonna have to work on CART next, you know. And captioning. Because see, when you're hard of hearing, you can be in the back of the church, you have no idea, you know, what the pastor is saying. I'm sorry to say this is now, you know, I already lost 70% of my hearing when I had my accident in 1985. My listeners know I had a seizure at the movie theater, fractured my skull, had an intracranial brain hemorrhage, broke the bones in my right inner ear. And this is when I found out that I was— after brain surgery, that I was living with epilepsy all along and just did not know it. But now, I went to see a movie the other night, and I had to go get that device for people who are deaf that you can see the captioning. It's a— I feel sorry for people for the deaf. This thing is so clunky. You put it on your seat and you're looking at this little tiny, tiny screen to— so you know what they're saying. Because as time has moved on, what happens when you're hard of hearing, you hear, but sometimes you miss certain, certain words. You know what I mean? But anyway, Northway does have a sign language interpreter, and I am so happy about that. And this is where I want to mention for a moment, Pastor Dave, if someone is listening right now and they would like to make a donation to Northway, what do they do?

Yeah, so our website is pretty robust with a lot of different options, you know, however you would love to give. First of all, I would say thanks for your generosity. Thanks for partnering or being willing to partner with us in our effort to spread the Gospel here in Pittsburgh and ultimately throughout the world, because as Joyce Bender has mentioned, our digital resources, they're not limited by the borders of our states and our country. They literally go around the world, and so your donation would be helping that effort continue and expand. And our website, northway.org, has a link to be able to give, and it's it's convenient and safe and secure. Giving mechanism is found right there on our homepage. So again, it's northway.org/give. So thanks, Joyce, for asking that.

Well, you know, here we are at the holiday season. It always amazes me when people say to me, "Well, hey, I don't believe Jesus was the Messiah." And I say, "Wow, he must have been really well-liked," 'Cause you know, people should still celebrate his birthday around the world for a prophet that isn't God. But I am telling you, here we are at the Christmas season, and this is a good time when you're thinking of making a donation to a charity. And those of you that make your year-end charitable donations, northway.org. You know, you cannot— I always say you cannot sit back and point the finger at a church unless you are involved. So, make that donation. That small donation could change not only a person's life, but also children, missionaries, so many things going on in this world. Northway.org. Pastor Dave, I was trying to explain to someone, you know, we are a non-denominational church, and it was hard for me to explain what that means. Would you mind explaining what that means to our listeners?

Yeah, sure. If you don't mind, I'm going to Google it myself here because sometimes it's a tricky term. I'm just kidding. So denominations are typically your mainline church, churches that are organized around a particular particularly specific set of articulated theology statements. So think Presbyterian, think Methodist, think Lutheran, think Assemblies of God. Those are all stated denominations with organizing groups who govern the churches and help resource the churches locally and around the world. And when Northway launched 40 years ago, we launched a partnership from any governing body. We were non-denominational, which meant we were, yes, on our own, but also not driven or restricted by some of those specific traditions or specific governing bodies. We were really free to pursue the vision that we felt God was leading us to, independent again of denominational rules and regulations. And I've been a part of denominations. I'm not knocking them. For us, in our specific situation, specific calling, we felt like non-denomination was the best, not only for the freedom it provides, but also for the freedom it provides people who are coming to worship here. There's not a specific name that you have to conform to in order to feel like you fit here. Non-denominational really allows it to be open-ended. We have folks who are, like I said, Methodist and Lutheran and Assemblies of of God and Presbyterian and Catholic and lots of different church experiences. And what we wanted to do is we didn't want tradition to be a hang-up for people. We wanted them just to be able to come. For me, what I've experienced is a lot of people carry around some church hurts. They've lost trust. They felt misused or abused or not cared for in a church world. I often say it this way: A lot of people people maybe have given up on the church, but they haven't given up on God. And as a non-denominational church, it kind of bypasses some of those traditional paradigms and allows us to just engage people with a clean slate. So that's some of the way I've experienced personally and the way I explain non-denominational.

Yeah, and it is absolutely— Absolutely. I mean, I just love it. Love, love them. And you know, I want to remind you that some of the greatest civil rights movements were led by Christian leaders, like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and like the Black churches that marched. Remember that. Same thing today with the head of the Poor People's Campaign, with Reverend Dr. Dr. William Barber, who is just the greatest civil rights leader. I am sure the disability community knows him. He is on TV all the time. He spoke at President Obama's convention. But he is all about civil rights, but he is all about preaching how Jesus says, remember the poor. So with that, time to go to break for our news break with Perry Jude Radesik. Perry?

Joyce, happy birthday!

Oh, thank you, Perry. Thank you very much.

We want to make sure your listeners know and celebrate you, uh, as you celebrate all of us all of the time. So, uh, happy birthday.

Thank you, Perry.

So Joyce, today we want to talk about a piece of legislation that's been introduced into Congress that's going to benefit both the disability and business community. And as I said, it's been reintroduced in the U.S. House and Senate. This important legislation is called the Disabled Access Credit Expansion Expansion Act. Act. And it was reintroduced by two legislators, Senator Tammy Duckworth from Illinois and Representative Donald McEachin from Virginia. And this legislation, if it becomes law, would do a couple of things. One, it focuses on this tax credit. So it makes it easier for businesses to comply comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act. How does it do it? It does it by increasing the size of the current tax credit to businesses that help pay for accessibility for employees and customers. Right now that tax credit is only $10,250. With this law, it would go up to $20,500, and it more importantly Currently it's adjusted for inflation annually. Also, the legislation would expand the number of small businesses who are eligible to take the credit. Eligibility would move from $1 million a year or less to $2.5 million a year or less for the size of the small business who could take advantage of the tax credit. Also, the Disabled Access Credit Expansion Act makes important changes to the ADA mediation program in that it adds more funding to the ADA mediation program that we all rely on. So increased funding to the U.S. Department of Justice to facilitate voluntary mediation to resolve disputes under the ADA. This money would go directly to hire or contract with more personnel to carry out that program and provide training for mediators. And finally, the legislation would require the U.S. Attorney General to provide data on the kinds of calls that come into the toll-free ADA information line. Right now, The Attorney General isn't required to provide that data to Congress, but this legislation would change that. We know advocacy matters, and this is really important legislation, again, to help both the disability and business communities. You can act today and ask your legislators to support this really important bill. So how can you do that? Visit disabilityrightspa.org And you'll find a link on today's Advocacy Matters segment that you can click on and send a quick message to your legislators in the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate to support this important bill. Also, if you go to disabilityrightsPA.org and click on today's segment, you'll find Senator Duckworth's press release on the reintroduction of this important bill and links to the text of the legislation itself. So Joyce, we need your listeners to take action today and do it for your birthday. That would be awesome.

Okay, what do you, what do you want them to do?

We want them to go to disabilityrightspa.org and click on today's Advocacy Matters segment, and there's a link called Take Action where you can send a message to your legislator to support this legislation.

Now please do this. Once again, if you want to see change, you've got to participate. Please, please make that happen. And Perry, it is just always a pleasure to hear the news from you, and I will look forward to hearing from you again next week.

Thanks, Joyce Bender.

The reason we do this on every show is we are the only place everyone in the United States can go to hear what is happening in the disability community nationally every week. So I'm, and I'm so happy to have Perry Jude, who's the CEO of Disability Rights of Pennsylvania, uh, as our anchor for Advocacy Matters. Pastor Dave, when I was, I was thinking just now that when I was talking about civil rights You do frequently talk about civil rights issues. I've heard you talk about Dr. Martin Luther King, you know, and different leaders. Don't you believe that civil rights is part of Christianity? Do you know what I mean? Because so much of that has led— Christianity has led to change.

Yeah, yeah, I see exactly what you're saying. I would probably frame it up this way: anywhere where someone is treated as less than, the Gospel calls us to change that system or to speak to it and to bring light there. Because when you look at the Scriptures, every one of us was created with dignity and worth because we were created in the very image of God himself. And to treat someone as less than, to ignore, to marginalize, to abuse, to misuse, it's to violate the very image of God that marks every single human being. We have a literal divine fingerprint upon all of our souls. And whether it's civil rights or the rights for those who are disabled or those who are impoverished or any people group that's lacking justice. That's all at the heart of the gospel. That's who Jesus was. He went towards those who needed love and mercy and grace and healing. And so, yeah, it's the call of the church. It's not just based on the issues of our day. Those come and go. Those rise and fall. They flare up based on happenings in our world. We're called to continually, as a church, be watchmen for those who have been hurt and those who are oppressed, those who are orphaned and abandoned, and to reach out and to love and to care. That's inherent in the scriptures and in the gospel and in who Jesus was when you look at him, you know, in the New Testament as his ministry unfolds. And so that's the call we pick up as a church for a lot of different areas and sectors of life.

And we work in some of those areas. We work with, for example, human trafficking and with the homeless. Could you talk about that for a minute?

Yeah, we have a lot of different missionary partners across the city. Sometimes we have found that the best way to make a difference isn't to just go and create our own ministry, it's to partner with ministries that are already making a difference and then to help channel resources in terms of financial resources and just volunteer hours and leadership effort into existing ministry partners. And so we have a number of partners throughout the city of Pittsburgh addressing with some of the issues you talked about, as well as homelessness and folks who are impoverished. And you name it, we have 30, 35 partners locally here in the city of Pittsburgh that are working on the front lines trying to bring hope and and healing into those marginalized areas of life.

Yeah, when you talk about that, I always think, wow, I mean, who would think ever that the Son of God would come and be in a manger in a barn? I mean, think about— that's amazing. You would think he's in a palace, you know, he was in a palace with all of this opulent ornate stuff. And here he is. And not only that, how about the 12 people he picked? They were not like scholars and, you know, kings and wealthy people. That's why I always say, when it comes to the poor and the homeless, this is your person. This is your person. That's right. That's why, uh, when Reverend Dr. William Barber spoke on MSNBC, he said, "If you leave out the poor— if you're a Christian and you leave out the poor, you're not a Christian." And that is so true. I wanted to add to talk to you for a minute, Pastor Scott. I know that we lost a great person in August, the same week I lost Mary, and that is Pastor Jay Passifit. And by the way, I have had emails— I'm not kidding you— and texts from everywhere that saw this memorial for Mary Brocker telling me how perfect it was and how much they liked the pastor. This is the pastor, the one I'm talking to right now. So anyway, Pastor Scott, how long did you know Pastor Jay? And I always think it's amazing how the church got started. So, um, could you talk about him for a few minutes?

Absolutely. Yeah, so I've been at Northway 20 years, so obviously met Jay, knew Jay when I got here. But Jay was well known in the city before that, so me doing ministry in the city, I'd heard about Jay. I had seen some of the ministries he created and started. And, um, so yeah, I've probably known him more than the 20, but got to know him really well, obviously, when I got here. The church's story is so— it's just, I mean, it's almost unimaginable. It's Jay and 8 couples meeting in a basement and, you know, trying to figure out, trying to think of a way and pray through a way to do church differently. But one of the things that Jay talked about was that he was serving in churches and knew some churches that frankly he couldn't get his friends to come to, that they were really hung up in some like really deep religion and were missing what he desperately wanted was the relationship with God and the relationships with one another. So this group just got together and started praying about a new, different kind of church. Non-denominational was really unheard of. In Pittsburgh 40 years ago, and Jay stepped out in faith, which I think was his— I always say that was his number one gift. The guy never doubted faith. He just said, "Why not? Let's try this." So, that group was the core group that began to meet consistently. Then they found this little restaurant with a banquet hall in the The banquet people said, "If you buy breakfast, we'll give you a room." So they bought breakfast and danishes and stuff and invited people to come, and the church birthed out of that. And it's just an unbelievable story of incredible faith. A lot of those people are still around, those original couples. They're still here. Their kids, their grandkids are still part of the church. And yeah, tragically— We lost Jay this year. He had been diagnosed with cancer, but seemed to be doing really, really well through that, frankly, incredibly well. And all the reports were good, but one day he got up and he did his morning devotions, and he went to take a nap, and he didn't wake up. And yeah, so it was really sudden. It was a sudden loss for our church, and I think for the city. He's just— his mark on this city will be everlasting.

Oh yes, so many people that, you know, you talk to around the city know him, and it's just so amazing that you could start with 8 people and have how many church campuses now?

Yeah, 6 now, currently.

Isn't that amazing? So when you think of all the people that go to Northway, all the— in Wexford, Wexford, by the way, Wexford, PA is where the main campus is. But when you think of whether it's Oakland or Dormaar or it's Wickley, I can't, I don't know all of them. Beaver, I mean, gee, there's so— isn't that great when I can't— Robinson. Isn't that great?

Pretty good.

Yeah.

You got them all.

But you know, when you think about that, I think of all the people that go to those churches on Sunday and that they go— I think how many people that is. Amazing. I mean, that really is amazing. Well, we know where he is right now. And from the moment he fell asleep, we know that he's up there celebrating., right now. Now, Pastor Dave and Pastor Scott, I'll start with you, Pastor Dave, because I heard a message you gave that was really to the point, excellent, on what I'm going to ask you about. But as everyone knows, it has now become a country where vax, no vax, mask, no mask, unmask the children, Make sure you mask the children. All of this has become polarized and political when it's a healthcare crisis that is now way past the Spanish flu and will go down in history as the worst pandemic in over 100 years. And yet here we are. Here we are in this situation. Two people listening to the show, Um, how do— let's say, for example, you are a Christian, you go to church, or whatever the situation, and then you're with your family at home or people, and this terrible thing starts going on. Don't you think this is like dividing our country, this damage from polarization?

Yeah, for sure. I think I think in a lot of ways, I guess I've heard it said this way, COVID has been a great revealer of some of the division and damage that was already present in our hearts. There's a scripture in Proverbs 4, it talks about guarding our hearts, for out of it flow the issues of our life. Another translation says, guard your heart, for it's the is the wellspring of your life. And when conflict and turmoil and turbulence and challenge hits our land— and it certainly has hit, and it's still hitting since the last 2 years— it has a way of revealing what already was in our hearts and how our souls were constructed. And so, yeah, I think COVID has revealed some of the division that we were good at concealing, and the pressure and stress and fear of real consequences from a real disease that, you know, it revealed, it caused us to respond out of what's in our hearts. And I think some of the way we get beyond the division, it goes back to tending to our hearts, and how do we view each other, even if we disagree with each other? You know, Jesus came from heaven, and he came to be with humanity. That's what the word Emmanuel means. It means God with us, and that's what we celebrate at Christmas. And Jesus didn't compromise what he believed, and yet he hung out with tax collectors, people who were sinners, because he cared for them. In his heart, he had compassion for them, and he deeply, he deeply loved them. And so I can't talk about the division in our world without talking about the need for our hearts to heal and to get back to the core of the gospel that tells us to love God and love our enemies. It doesn't tell us to be right about our politics. It doesn't tell us to be right about how we see the world. You know, the older I get, the more I talk to people, the more I believe that a lot of where we stand on issues, it's often connected to where we sit in life. And this would sort of connect, Joyce Bender, I think if you've ever had to wear crutches because you hurt an ankle or had a broken leg, it changes your perspective and you start to see things from a— you sit in a new seat. And so where you stand on things like access and stairs and elevator, it changes in a heartbeat. I think we've lost the ability to remember that simple truth that we don't all sit in the same seat. And it's not all about being right. I'd rather be with people than just be right, because I don't want to be alone in this world. I want to be in community, and I want to learn from people, and I want to listen to people. That's how you value people and communicate that everyone has worth and dignity and God-given value. And so, yeah. I guess walking back to the beginning, COVID's been hard, and it has been challenging, and we do live in a destructive, divisive world. And I think the way we get beyond that is we get back to checking our hearts and what's going on, and anchoring them in the Gospel first and foremost, and more than any other soil available to us in our world.

I agree with everything you said. And you know how Senator Dole just passed away and how I talked about, you know, when it wasn't polarized, you know, I'm a Democrat, but I'm a person with a disability. I love Dorothea Bush. I loved Senator Dole. And I'm gonna give you an example. When he gave his 1996 acceptance speech, the Republican nomination for the president. He said, the Republican Party is broad and inclusive. It represents— the Republican Party, uh, has many streams of opinion and many points of view. But if there's anyone who has mistakenly attached themselves to our party and the belief that we are not open to citizens of every race and religion, then let me remind you tonight, this hall belongs to the party of Lincoln, and the exits, which are clearly marked, are for you to walk out as I stand this ground without compromise. And you know what? That's what I mean. That's what I mean. And Pastor Scott, I think he would probably agree that sometimes if you get taken into this, you know, as a Christian, uh, if you, you go to church, but if you get taken into all this polarization and fighting over all this, it can really do something terrible to you spiritually.

I agree 100%. You know, we've, we've witnessed it in our community where people maybe extremely take a stance and expect the church to take the same one with them, and if we can't or won't, they won't be with us and they'll move on. It's the exit sign that you talked about that— I don't know that I've put it that bluntly to somebody in our church, but there's been a few that I wanted to show them where the exit sign was. Yeah, we are a church that is supposed to present the gospel clearly. We're not to espouse to a political party or an agenda. Our agenda is Jesus Christ, and our agenda is his gospel. It's his good news. And I think when churches veer off of that, they're in some, some waters that I don't think we're supposed to be in. So yeah, I am a pretty non-political person. I, um, I have my, my views and my stances and the things that I go after, but I would say that most of those are based around on the Bible and based on what Jesus said. And as a church, I just don't think— we just have to be very, very careful in those, in those areas.

Well, you know, I like to cause a ruckus, so here we go. I'm so proud of Northway that they have introduced women as leaders in our church and had an ordination I went to just a couple weeks ago. So you are going to hear it from me. If you walked out that door because Northway making that decision, you know what I say? Shame on you! And I probably would be holding the door. You know why? I am a troublemaker. But with that—

You are!

I am a troublemaker. We've come to the end of the show, and I want to say once again, northway.org, northway.org. Over this holiday season, there are so many that are left out. Please go make a donation. And we end every show with a quote, so here it is, a quote from someone famous, very famous. His name is Jesus. And he said— can't believe Pastor Scott, uh, Dave mentioned this earlier— he said, "Love your neighbor as yourself." That's what he said. But I have to add this little dots after it: "No edits." And with that, hey, in the words of Mary Brocker, remember to choose joy. I'll talk to you next week. Thank you so much, Pastor Dave D'Angelo and Pastor Scott Stephens from Northway Christian Community. Hey everyone, go to Spotify, subscribe to this show, and you can share this show with everyone else. Talk to you next week. Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in.

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