NTID's and RIT's Commitment to Students with Disabilities

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show to everyone in the United States and around the world. You know, we have over 15 to 18 countries with listeners, off and on, different countries, from Mongolia to China to Australia. And you have to understand, these are sometimes countries like Mongolia, where there's only one person listening. Then there are countries where there's thousands listening. But even that one person, wherever you are, you're making a difference. You are. What you got to do is get this show out to other English-speaking people with disabilities or businesses so they too can learn about the quality and the dignity and the power of people with disabilities. So a special shout out to my friend Richard Roberts in— well, he just left Okinawa. He's with the State Department. I've known him for years. He's the most wonderful person. I first met him in South than in Japan, and he'll soon be on to his next country. And Gangyong in South Korea, Gangyong, hello, love you so much. And Vinyamin, Vinyamin in Kazakhstan, hello to you, Vinyamin. And I must mention Cheryl Harris. I just hung up with Cheryl. She is with the State Department. She was in Tunisia and now she's back here in the United States, and she is a true disability rights leader and advocate. So hi to you, Cheryl. But we'll never forget Yoshiko Dart. Never, ever, never. Yoshiko, wife of the late Justin Dart, special hello to you every show. And this show is sponsored by Highmark. They have been the lead sponsor for years. Uh, what a great company they are, and they've stood behind me the whole way. So I have to tell you, I am so excited about the show today because first of all, one of my favorite people is the guest, but this person is also a national leader in the disability and specifically in the deaf community. He is the president of the National Institute for the Deaf and vice president and dean for Rochester Institute of Technology, Dr. Gerard Buckley. Gerry, welcome to the show. Dr. Buckley, you are so accomplished in your career, and I'm so proud to serve on the National Advisory Group for this great institute, National Technical Institute of Technology for the Deaf, that everyone, everyone should know about the National Technical Institute for the Deaf. I'm not going to stop mentioning it, because I want you to either send your deaf child or make a contribution today. But with that, I would like to introduce you to Dr. Buckley, as I said, so accomplished in his career. I must ask you first about your story. Where did you grow up and how was it for you growing up as a deaf child, Dr. Buckley?

Well, Joyce, thank you very much for the opportunity to join you today and talk about NTID, and thank you for your listeners also for supporting the disability rights movement. I'm proud to be a part of that, not only in the United States but around the world. So I'm very pleased to hear about your expanded global context. I'm originally a native of St. Louis, Missouri, and I was one of 7 children, the only person who was deaf or hard of hearing, and I had a progressive hearing loss. And so what that basically means is that every year my hearing got worse growing up, and so that required every year to make the kind of adjustment that many individuals have to make who experience any kind of progressive loss. I also am a product of the pre-mainstreaming days back in the 1960s and 1970s before federal laws really had been passed that mandated the kind of access services that many of our deaf and hard of hearing and other individuals with other disabilities, you know, have later on after the passage of the 94-142 and also after 504 was signed in and finally after the Americans with Disabilities Act. So my educational experiences and my personal experiences were before federal law really mandated access. So like many deaf or hard of hearing individuals who grew up at that time who went to mainstream programs, we basically read our way through school. Relied a lot on our own abilities to read, had more limited socialization because of that. So by the time I finished high school, I was ready to be in an environment where there were both deaf and hearing individuals interacting who were sensitive to one another's needs. So I came to hear it. I grew up in St. Louis. I applied and came up to college here in Rochester at Rochester Institute of Technology through the National Technical Institute for the Deaf, and I majored in social work both here, and then I went back home to the Midwest and got my MSW and began to be engaged in the cross-disability movement, and that's where I met, and I had the benefit of being mentored by outstanding Disability leaders like Max and Colleen Starcliff and Bill Sheldon and people like that really had a profound influence on me as I was beginning my career, and I also was heavily influenced by the Deaf President Now movement, which occurred at Gallaudet University, which resulted in the appointment of King Jordan as the first deaf president of Gallaudet University. So all these activities really provided me with a— I just had an amazing experience growing up and then going into college and going into my professional career. It was a very exciting time of change and improvement as leaders in the disability rights were insisting on equal access and as we worked together to pass the Americans with Disabilities Act. And I'm proud of the fact that I was one of the individuals who sat on the White House lawn when that act was signed, and I was a personal guest of Senator Robert Dole, who passed recently, who was a friend of all of us in the deaf community as well as the disability community. I'll kind of stop there. That's an overview of who I am. I did move— one of the questions that I'm often asked is, "Why did you move from social work to education?" My response was that I found myself when I was working as a caseworker or in the community advocacy area in social work and trying to affect change, I found myself often educating individuals with disabilities and specifically deaf and hard of hearing individuals about their rights and their responsibilities. I began to see education as the pathway for really changing the world. I also come from a family of educators who are committed and believe in the power of education. So I had the opportunity to go to the University of Kansas' special education program, which, doctoral program, and I had an outstanding experience there learning from some of the, some of the leaders in special education. So I really have been fortunate to be at the right place at the right time. Interacting with a number of wonderful leaders in the disability community and specifically within the deaf community who were advocating for equal access during the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

Wow, and you know what, I'm going to come back to that White House experience, but before I do, Now, this is obviously, as you said, when you were growing up before ADA, before 504, before all of that. When you went to high school, were you mainstreamed or did you go to a school for the deaf?

I grew up, I grew up in the mainstream. You know, we all got on the little yellow bus in the old days. Again, that was a— the Schools for the Deaf at that time, the transition had already begun to occur in St. Louis, Missouri, which had a very progressive mainstream program and still does. So I'm very fortunate that there was support, but I look at the kind of services students have today with FM systems, with capturing, with sign language interpreting, with, you know, with the computer access, and I'm just amazed at how far we've come over the last generation, and at the same time, I'm disappointed that we haven't done a better job of educating deaf and hard of hearing students so that they are able to take advantage of programs like NTID. We have work to do to improve the quality of education and the outcomes students so that they are prepared to take advantage of many of these opportunities that we fought so hard for.

Well, if I may ask you, how did you succeed in these classes without an interpreter?

I think many of us who are deaf or hard of hearing know that we succeed through reading. I mean, I found someone who would give me a copy of their notes. I did extra work at night. I tried to meet with the faculty or the teachers in the classes. I was fortunate because I did go to a smaller private Catholic high school, and so there was some sensitivity, but by the time I graduated from high school, I really felt isolated and alone. I felt There were too many times when I didn't understand what was going on in social situations, and we all know how important it is in high school in particular in social situations. If you don't know who's dating who, or you don't know who's captain of this, or you don't know which teachers are in a bad mood, and many, a lot of that information is shared at the lunchroom. The lunchroom in particular was a source of frustration for me because it wasn't enjoyable. So I would wolf down my lunch and I would go outside. And so, you know, simply because I didn't want to sit and pretend like I understood what people were saying. And many of our deaf and hard of hearing youth in the mainstream often are in situations socially where they don't have equal access, and so they often pretend that they understand the conversations in the lunchroom or they understand what people are saying when there's no access services, and that results in a lot of gaps and a lot of unfortunate circumstances. I still remember, you know, this was the days before before relay services or what we call the video relay services now, I still recall asking my sister to call a girl that I wanted to ask out for a date. And those kind of things were embarrassing socially. It wasn't easy to fit in, and so you just, you did your best,. And so when it came time to think of a college and where I wanted to go, I wanted to go someplace like NTID where there would be both deaf and hearing students who respected each other, who were committed to one another's personal and social growth as well as academic growth. So RIT was a target for me, and I was really excited to come here as an undergraduate. and I had an amazing student experience. I mean, I was allowed to be involved. I was on the soccer team. I was a resident advisor in the dorm working with both deaf and hearing students. I was not in the school play, but I was active in the student organizations, the student congress. I was an activist, if you will, and I had a lot of very positive experiences on this campus. That led, in many ways contributed to my development as a leader in the Deaf community because I learned here on the campus how to be an effective leader.

Well, you certainly are an effective leader. I was just thinking hearing you speak, you went from that person that when you had to have your sister make that call You went from that person to becoming one of the most powerful, well-known presidents, disability rights leaders known internationally. I mean, look what you've accomplished since then. And if you're listening to the show, I want to tell you, I've known him for years, and Dr., Dr. Buckley is the real deal. How he sounds now is how he is at school. He so cares for the students and for this university, which this institute is by far one of the best in the country. And if you do have a child who is deaf, or sibling, or know of someone, and they're seeking a school, I most heartily encourage you to apply at NTID. I mean, I know so many people there. They're good people. You won't regret it. And it's so wonderful, the social atmosphere that they have. Well, as you can see, I do love NTID, Dr. Buckley. So how about if you share with our listeners about the Institute, you know, where it's located, the size of the student body, and what you believe are some of the key reasons that you know it's the best school for young deaf people.

Oh, sure. We are located in Rochester, New York, which is about 60 miles from Buffalo, New York, and all my Buffalo friends are still recovering from the traumatic game the other night, but we are very proud of our team, and we're very proud of Western New York. We're in between Buffalo and Syracuse, and that puts us about 400 miles away from New York City. So we are on western— we are in western New York. We're also about 1 hour and 15 minutes from Niagara Falls. So if you're coming to Canada or you're coming to see the falls, come to NTID. We have 1,200 deaf and hard of hearing students on this campus with about 14,000 hearing students. And when Congress passed the legislation in 1965 that resulted in the establishment of NTID and LBJ signed that legislation, it mandated that NTID be established on the campus of a main— on a mainstream campus. And that was a pretty radical idea back in 1965, the idea that deaf students would be educated along alongside their brothers and sisters who are not deaf on a mainstream campus. There was a strong belief that if we provided access services and accommodations and we worked to improve the educational support for deaf students, they could succeed in a mainstream classroom here on this campus. So every day we have more than 150 sign language interpreters and more than 50 captionists who are providing direct services to students so they can participate in everything on the campus from A to Z. So we have students who are captains of the soccer teams. We have them very active in the fraternities. We have them also very engaged in the baseball teams as well as student government. As a matter of fact, 3 times in the history of the institute here, The overall student body has elected deaf students to be presidents of the full student body, and we're very proud of that because what that says is that deafness is recognized and respected in the mainstream of our campus, and that deaf and hearing students are peers here on this campus and respect one another and their individual identity and their ability to serve as Leaders. leaders. NTID was founded on the principle also that we would strive for employment, for improving the employment circumstances of deaf people. If we go back to the 1960s, the opportunities for deaf professionals in the technical and the professional fields were very limited, and so most deaf individuals were in traditional jobs semi-skilled jobs, and their opportunities for advancement were very limited because at that time the only choice for real post-secondary education was Gallaudet University, which is one of our leading— it is our leading liberal arts university focused on preparing people for the liberal arts areas. NTID was established to really change the employment picture to provide opportunities for deaf people to pursue the professional and technical careers. And one of our concepts, one of our fundamental principles that we were striving for, what we call what our founding father, Dr. Robert Frazina, he called economic parity. And that was the concept that we wanted deaf students to graduate from degree programs here at RIT in and be able to go out and compete for those jobs in the American workforce and be paid at the same level as their peers so that deaf people would benefit and enjoy the benefits of economic parity, would be able to buy houses, would be able to send their children to schools that they chose, would be able to live the American dream, if you will. And so 50 years later now, 53 years later now, 58 years later, excuse my math, we now have more than 9,400 graduates who have really worked in careers that 50 years ago were really not accessible to deaf students or available. So I can tell you now, and Joyce, you know this, and let me thank you for your service as a member of our National Advisory Group and for your advocacy on behalf of employment and co-ops for our students, because that's critically important. But we have now more than 9,400 graduates who are in careers, who've enjoyed careers, who've given back to the American workforce. Through their economic productivity. And, you know, just amazing, the stories. I mean, almost daily now, many of my colleagues who represent the first generation of NTID graduates are retiring now after outstanding careers, and they really have made a difference in their disciplines, whether they be deaf Doctors, lawyers, PhD, engineers, chemists. And so we're very proud of the fact that we have now really increased the diversity of deaf and hard of hearing professionals in the disciplines, and many of them in the STEM disciplines, which are very, very important for economic parity. We've been in business about 45 years. We have 1,200 deaf students. Every year we have approximately 350 graduates, and we have 350 new students come in and participate in our community. They're allowed to study for a wide range of degrees. We have 200 different majors at RIT that are accessible to deaf students, and we have everything from the associate degree all the way up to the PhD. We have 6 deaf PhD students primarily in the computer science area and several who are looking at the area of cybersecurity. So it's a very exciting, vibrant campus. We also, as part of, you know, a reflection of American demographics. Half of our students are of color and come to us from, from a wide range of backgrounds throughout the United States. 3% of our students are international, and we continue to value their contributions to our community. We hope to see that grow in the future. International deaf students are required to pay a surcharge So their tuition charges are double, and that becomes a real barrier to many students from different countries who want to take advantage of the outstanding education here.

Wow. How about all those PhDs? That's awesome. And by the way, I know you're very diverse, very diverse campus with the students. Being people of color. We have really at NTID been very progressive in that area and just done a phenomenal job. Once again, I'm talking about the National Technical Institute for the Deaf. Is it NTID.edu? Is that what the website is?

It's www.rit.edu. /NTID.

Okay, so one more time, would you repeat that?

Sure, www.rit.edu/NTID.

Now, if someone goes there and they're interested in getting information Do they just go to the website to get that?

Sure, yeah. We, our website is user-friendly, accessible. I like to say that it's 24/7 because people throughout the world reach out to us for information about our programs here or the services that we provide or for technical assistance. Anyone who's interested in, in arranging a visit or having a prospective student or parent visit, go to the website and click on the appropriate links and we'll welcome them and we'll follow up promptly.

Good. Okay, that's good. And I would encourage you to do that. I feel it's important when you go to any university to know about the person at the top. And I would not want to go somewhere if I didn't know the person at the top, uh, unless they were a person of integrity and character. And that is Dr. Gerard Buckley. That is how he is. So I, I hope you will consider this school. It is a wonderful institute, and you have certainly, Dr. Buckley, had to deal with this pandemic just as we all have. How have you done that? What have you done to protect the students and the staff? And do some of the students still— are they still educated remotely?

All of our— that's an excellent question. All of our students are back on campus full-time. We, like the rest of the country, when COVID first hit in March, March we had to shut down for a brief period of time, and we went— in one week, we went online and finished out the semester. And then we very carefully constructed, following the CDC as well as the New York State health guidelines, we very carefully constructed a safety plan for having everyone return to the campus. And so we've been in-person with minimal positive infections last year, had a very positive experience. This year we also had a very positive experience. With the emergence of the latest variant, Omicron, we have still required that all students wear a mask and social distancing where appropriate. And of course, we require the vaccination and, and the booster. And we're doing everything we can. Our rates are in the high 90s for vaccination. I think our student body, our faculty and staff have been amazing. They've been incredibly cooperative. Everyone wants to keep the campus open. They want to continue to provide the educational services. I need to applaud all the people at RIT and TID, though, that have also really gone gone out of their way to share communications, to provide access services in the classroom, the faculty who've adjusted their teaching. You might imagine, we all know the mask become a real— and even though the clear masks, there are limited number of them, there are problems with them. And we are actually working on a team to create the next generation of clear masks that would be available But we also know that on a day-to-day basis, communication sometimes is very difficult. If a teacher is wearing a mask and lecturing, we know that the mask is going to diminish the ability of students to hear, and so we've really ramped up our interpreting services and our captioning services so that students can request appropriate accommodations and receive them. It is not a perfect world. Every day the information we get changes a little bit, and we're trying to, we're working very hard with everyone involved to make sure the campus stays open and we stay focused on our mission of preparing students for employment. We, last year we tested everyone weekly. That was a sign of our commitment and that was very successful. This year we're doing a lot of— I know more, Joyce, about wastewater treatment than I ever knew and wastewater testing. And we have our senior management team that meets daily for at least 1 hour to keep on top of this situation. We have a strong commitment keeping the campus safety— safe and healthy. And the community has responded very, very positively. So I'm very proud of the way that the community has really reached out and supported one another during this time of challenge.

Well, you have done a great job. I mean, I'm so proud of the students, the teachers, the administration. Everyone, because this has certainly been a challenge. But, uh, you know, it's so important to be able to keep that school open. And with that, it's time for our news break on the half hour with our anchor person, our newscaster, Perry Jude Radesik with Advocacy Matters. Perry, how are you today?

Joyce, I'm doing very well, thank you so much.

Good, good. So what news do you have for us today, Perry?

Joyce, we want to talk about Amtrak and the Americans with Disabilities Act. Since October of 2017, Amtrak has brought 36 train stations into compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Now, for individuals who ride Amtrak know that there are stations that are out of compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. In fact, 312 train stations remain out of compliance with the ADA. Now, Amtrak had a plan to bring those train stations into compliance, but a recently released report, which we have a link to at disabilityrightspa.org, A recently released report from the Amtrak Office of Inspector General does not paint a pretty picture and says that Amtrak needs better planning and coordination if they expect to meet their compliance obligations over the next 6 years. And for those who follow the ADA, which became law in 1990, Amtrak had a pass. Amtrak did not have to come into compliance with the ADA until 2010. And Amtrak missed that deadline, Joyce Bender. So they had to set out a plan to meet progress toward accessibility. Little progress was made. The Department of Justice intervened and came up with a negotiated settlement agreement with Amtrak in December of 2020. So under the terms of that settlement agreement with the Department of Justice. Amtrak has to come into compliance now by 2027. And in addition to that, Amtrak had to set up a fund to compensate individuals with disabilities who experienced accessibility discrimination at their train stations. The New York Times just reported that Amtrak paid out more than $2 million to over 1,500 people with disabilities. So this is important. It's important that people with disabilities have access to Amtrak and to the stations. And so go to disabilityrightsPA.org and click on our Advocacy Matters segment for today, and you will see the Justice Department settlement agreement with Amtrak. You'll see a report from the National Disability Rights Network that surveyed Amtrak's inaccessibility for people with disabilities. And you'll see other important information. So, Joyce, I guess the story here today is that we're still waiting for Amtrak— here we are over 30 years later— to come into compliance with the ADA.

You know what? That is terrible. That is really terrible. I, I don't know what it takes to make this happen, but I, I just think it's terrible. I would urge everyone to go to the website disabilityrightsPA.org and go to Advocacy Matters. What, what can our listeners do to help, Perry?

Well, I, I think if If individuals are still experiencing discrimination at Amtrak and their station facilities, they should contact the Department of Justice, who has that settlement agreement with Amtrak. And so that's probably the best thing for individuals to do. Or they can contact their local protection and advocacy agency, like Disability Rights Pennsylvania, for some legal advice. About what to do.

And Perri has not only been with me for years now doing this, uh, newsbreak for us, our newscaster, but she is also the CEO of Disability Rights PA, uh, just a great organization. And I want to tell you, Perri, I'm so proud of you and your leadership, uh, for people with disabilities in this country and for continuing to raise your hand and say advocacy matters. And we are the only news source where people with disabilities can go every week to get information on a timely basis that impacts them. So Perry, thank you so much. We'll look forward to your next break with us.

Thank you, Joyce Bender.

Bye now. Bye-bye. Isn't that terrible? Hard to believe, isn't it? Dr. Buckley, you were seated on the South Line of the White House when the ADA was signed, and we still have inaccessibility at Amtrak.

It's— the work goes on. The work goes on. While we've made a lot of progress, those All of us who've been fighting for disability rights know that there's areas that need additional attention, and one of them, as you just mentioned, is transportation. We're not where we want to be, and so we can't relax, and we need to stay active. I have friends who say to me, "Well, I don't like politics. I don't like getting involved," and I'm saying, "No, you have to. You have to get involved. You have to be an advocate." it not only for yourself but for future generations so that we can continue to make progress. NTID was established because leaders in the deaf community and leaders in the education of the deaf advocated for this concept many, many years ago, and it took many years before it became legislation, but we have to continue to fight and we have to begin to continue to advocate. I wanted to thank members of Congress, particularly Senator Schumer, Senator Gillibrand, and Congressman Joe Morelle, who continue to be very, very strong advocates for NTID here and continue to represent us and support us in our appropriations request. Those are just 3 of the people NTID has made friends over the years, but these are 3 that I wanted to recognize and thank publicly for their ongoing Yeah, that's right.

It takes people standing up like that for us. And you know, this is not about just politics. This is about your life. So I tell people, don't complain about any of these situations unless you're involved. I agree with Dr. Buckley. And Dr. Buckley, you have a phenomenal partnership with Rochester Institute of Technology and are the vice president. Dr. Buckley, do you want to tell our listeners about that, how you could be at NTID and continue on if you so desire at RIT?

Sure, sure. When Congress established NTID, actually RIT applied to become the host institute 50 years ago, 50-plus years ago. RIT applied to be the host institute institute for NTID, and again, it was a radical concept when the idea of mainstreaming or educating a large number of deaf students on a campus primarily built for hearing students and designed for hearing students. And so there's been a very strong partnership and relationship. NTID is not only seen as one of the 9 colleges of ours, RIT, but is recognized as a national jewel, a national treasure for RIT. We are known throughout the world now as being a model for access for deaf and hard of hearing people, and RIT takes great pride in serving as the host institute for NTID. We are very, very focused on placement and economic parity So historically, we have a 94% placement rate, and Joyce, you've worked hard to advocate for co-op opportunities for our students. We have every year 300 to 400 students who go out and graduate, and we have another 200 to 300 who seek co-op opportunities with employers. And so our Center for Employment works closely with you as well as employers throughout the country to connect those employers with highly qualified deaf and hard of hearing students, and we deeply appreciate the partnerships we not only have here on the campus with RIT, but with employers throughout the country who are willing to open doors and provide opportunities and provide very meaningful and accessible experiences for deaf students in their businesses and places of work.

Yeah, you know, I will say everyone, you know, my listeners know that I am the founder of Bender Consulting Services, which is a national company that focuses on the competitive employment of people with disabilities in IT, finance, accounting, healthcare fields, procurement, and I was so impressed with NTID because of its business value. Meaning that the students are really oriented toward moving into a— with an employer into a professional role. And one of the things that right away stood out to me is this internship program for the students. I mean, I think that makes such a difference and also prepares that student even more for the world of work. Would you mind taking just a minute and explaining that to our listeners, Dr. Buckley?

Sure. All of our students are required to do a co-op, a cooperative education experience in their major and in their field. So a student who's majoring, who's completing an associate's degree a degree in lab science technology, the Dow Chemical Company in Michigan or where in many of their plants throughout the country will offer that student the opportunity to go primarily in the summertime over a 10-week period where they are placed in a co-op position under the supervision of a person at the agency or the work site who's really working with them to make sure that they have an educational experience on the job. They're not only learning, but they're contributing to the work of that organization. And so it's amazing how the students go out. There's nothing better for a young student than to go out and work and get that experience under their belt and begin to see what really is expected of them when they graduate. And what's very powerful for many of our students is they go out and they work, and they come back to campus for an additional 1 or 2 years depending on their major. And they come back and they say, you know, I was working in this lab, or I was working on this site, and I realized that I need to enhance or improve my skills. So I want to come back and take some more courses. My supervisor gave me this excellent feedback about my calculation skills or my computer science skills, and they have time to come back on the campus and get that experience, develop those skills further, so when they graduate, many times those same co-op employers call us and say, are they available for jobs because we want to hire them because we know you've trained them. One of the things at NTID we're very proud of is that students have hands-on experience. And if you visit some college programs, you'll see that the students are not allowed to touch the technical equipment. You know, a piece of equipment is worth several hundred thousand dollars, and so only the faculty can touch it. Well, the problem with that is that if only the faculty can touch it, only the faculty will be comfortable with using that equipment. Our students get hands-on experience, state-of-the-art equipment, so that they go into the lab at Dow Chemical and they've worked personally, they have hands-on experience with, you know, with these devices and with this high-tech equipment that they're able to go in immediately and contribute to the success of that employer's operations.. And so we're very big on making sure that students have experience, hands-on experience, and are able to offer employers skills that, you know, they can immediately employ in the workplace.

Yeah, I think that is so important. I do. When they go— how long did you say it is normally? How long is the co-op?

It's normally 10 weeks, and so I would encourage listeners who are employers or, you know, we all know that many individuals with disabilities, I can still recall looking for jobs when I was in high school and not having, at that time it was legal to say, I'm not going to hire you because you're hard of hearing or deaf, and I think you you might get hurt on the job, you know, you won't hear something, and it was legal to do that. But still, I think many of our students with disabilities still face discrimination in the workplace, even in high school, and so many of them haven't had those independent work experiences that all of us need to help in our career formation. So I encourage anyone out there who has child with a disability or someone who is an advocate for disabilities to encourage their young students in the secondary years to get as much work experience as they can so they can be figuring out what they want to do and how they want to do it. And I encourage employers who are interested in opening doors for deaf students because it is, you know, when you think about it, In the field of deafness, it's about 1 out of every 1,000 children in K-12 has a hearing loss. So you get out there and you say, okay, well, how much experience does the typical employer have, or the typical person who's hiring someone with a deaf or hard of hearing employee? And you may say, well, they don't have any experience, and so there's sometimes frightened, and, you know, they're just not aware, and they're not sure. How are we going to handle the day-to-day communication issues? What about access? What about— is it going to cost too much? And all of these things that employers wrestle with, and so we are continually out through our Center on Employment, which is staffed by some outstanding professionals under the leadership leadership of John Macko, who's, I think, presented on this program in the past, and they're out all the time reaching out to employers, making new connections, and seeking advocates within organizations that employ people to open doors for us and give our students the opportunities to demonstrate their skills and how they can contribute to the success of the the employment agency or the employment— the employer that they're joining. So we are very big on continued outreach, continued education. We offer a workshop specifically for employers called Working Together in How to Work, and essentially what that does is it helps the supervisor gain basic knowledge and tips that if I have a deaf I have a student working in my shop or working in my computer lab or working in my science lab, how will I deal with communication issues? And so team goes in and works to help everyone figure out how you're going to do that in a way that's a win-win for everyone. And that service is available also. More information on that working together is at our website at www.rit.edu/ntid.

Okay, and I hope you'll go check that out. And Dr. Buckley, you know, you've done so much already, so many great accomplishments, but if you had to think of one thing, what would you say is your proudest accomplishment in your career at NTID?

Joyce, it's not so much about my proudest accomplishment. I think it's more about NTID and what we're doing to change the lives of deaf people. And I'm very touched when I travel for NTID to represent us both nationally and internationally Personally, there's nothing more powerful than going into a program, an educational program in China or in Russia. I know that's not a good example today, but in Russia, in China, in the Philippines, in South Africa, in Dubai, wherever we are and we're traveling and carrying the message that deaf people can be successful and that deaf people can contribute to the economic well-being of a country that they live in. And, you know, what I often do is when I meet with the students in these countries, I often look at them and say, you know, because I'm often going to visit, like, there are 19 colleges of the deaf in China now., and they are, most of them are modeled right after NTID. They're on the campus of mainstream campuses. They're not as developed as we are, but they are getting there, and there's nothing better than when I look out and I say to those students, someday one of you will be president of this college like me. In America. And that's just— you look at the students' eyes just light up and they see the opportunity. I tell the students who come by my office at NTID, I often say the same thing to them, one day one of you will replace me. And I hope it's a person of color, I hope it's a woman, I hope it's a diverse person. We really are very fortunate that we have a 50-year history of success. We have strong support from friends like you, Joyce Bender, and your organization, and we are making a difference in the lives of people, not only nationally but internationally. And so I'm really very proud of the fact that we can go out and we can say— I happen to be the third deaf president of NTID now, so I'm proud of that. I'm the first alumni president. I'm the first product of NTID, and I'm very proud of that, but I'm looking forward to in the future many of our— even more of our organizations and corporations and foundations are led by individuals who have the experience of being disabled themselves because I think there are still too Too many deaf children and too many individuals with disabilities who have lower expectations than they should that are receiving services or education that's only good enough instead of challenging them to live up to their full potential. I'm just excited about the opportunity to lead NTID. I take great pride in it. I'm humbled by the opportunity to serve in this role.

Well, I am proud of you also, and I thank you so much for being with us today, Dr. Buckley. But before we end the show, we end every show with a quote, and today it is from superhero, deaf superhero Laura Ridloff, who said, We need to see other people like ourselves to help us define who we are. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific Time and 2 PM Eastern Time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.