Rabbi Fellman: Leading Effort to Include Disability Population

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone! Hey, welcome to the show to everyone in the United States. And around the world, especially these countries: China, Russia, Australia, the UK, Saudi Arabia. I think we have 17 countries with listeners. I just want to say, if you're in a country like Saudi Arabia and you're that one person, one person can make a difference. Just Let everyone know if they're English speaking about this show. And by the way, you can hear it on almost every social media venue because you're going to help me make a difference. And to everyone here in the United States, I say thank you. Thank you so much. You are all so awesome. You are such great listeners. You know what? I called someone the other day and they said, oh my God, I'm so excited to talk to you. My father's your biggest fan. And you know what? I was really overwhelmed. So every time you tell me something, I'm always overwhelmed. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Yoshiko Dart, special shout out to you, my friend that I love so much. And Richard Roberts in Brazil and Gang Yang Cho in South Korea, from the State Department. You know what, you're both great. And Richard Roberts is like an international disability rights leader. Can't wait to see you later this year, you and Carla. So you know what, this show has been on 21 years, and I have to thank our lead sponsor, Highmark. I just saw The CEO, David Holmberg, who was a speaker at an event I attended, and from, from the stage he talked about hiring people with disabilities, just so you all know that. So once again, thank you all. I'm very excited to have Rabbi Daniel Feldman on, who is the senior rabbi at Temple Sinai, and this is my first time having him on the show. So, Rabbi, welcome to the show.

Thank you, it's a pleasure to be with you.

And I, I want to say that, um, our listeners, they'll say, wow, that was a great speaker, but I wish I knew more about them. So what I've started doing is telling my guests to start by telling their story you know, like where they grew up and their family and, you know, where you went on to school, etc. So I'll turn it over to you, Rabbi.

Sure. Well, I am married to my wife Melissa, and we have 3 kids. Our oldest is a junior in high school, our middle one is a freshman in high school, and our little one is a 4th grader. And we live in Pittsburgh, and we're really happy to live in Pittsburgh. It's a wonderful city. I was born and raised in Omaha, Nebraska, and I'm the youngest of 4 children in my family. And I was really fortunate. I grew up in a home that encouraged growth and discovery. My parents encouraged each of us to sort of forge our own paths, and we ended up in very different worlds, but we're close with each other. Most of the time we could live on the same block and be just fine. Um, doesn't mean we can't get under each other's skin periodically, but we all get along well still. Uh, I, uh, after graduating from high school in Omaha, I, uh, graduated from college at Colorado College in Colorado Springs, which is a small liberal arts school. Uh, I had a degree in politics, and along the way in college I worked, uh, as an aide on the floor of the Democratic National Convention in 1992. And then an intern in the Clinton White House in 1993. And just after college, I worked for a short time as a speechwriter for the governor of Nebraska, who was an old family friend. And then I went to rabbinical school. And so, I spent years studying in rabbinical school, learning Hebrew language. I was in Los Angeles for a couple of years, and then Israel for a year, and then Cincinnati. And then I was ordained in Cincinnati in 2005. We moved to New Jersey where I was the number 2 rabbi at a large congregation. And then we were in Syracuse, New York for 12 years where I was the head rabbi. And we've been in Pittsburgh just shy of 3 years. So that's the life story in a nutshell. I was born on a cold, snowy day and today it's bright and sunny.

Yeah, I know. It's so strange for Pittsburgh. You know, I told someone the other day, we're known for our snow and cold in the winter. And right now it's like San Diego. So don't ask me, climate control. I don't know what's going on, but we're glad to have you in Pittsburgh, Rabbi. And I just want to ask you, does this mean you had those Cincinnati chili hot dogs when you were in Cincinnati?

No, I, you know, it's funny, I lived in Cincinnati for 5 or 6 years and I never had the chili. I could never quite bring myself to do it. So, uh, Cincinnati ice cream is another story, and Graeter's ice cream is worth its weight in gold. But Cincinnati chili was never my thing.

Well, my maiden name is Saletti, so I go there and they say, oh, wait till you see this, and it's that chili on top of pasta. I said, huh-uh, that is not happening. I know that's a big thing. I know that's a big thing. And then, wow, you were in snow country, right, in Syracuse?

I was, I was.

Okay, I'm one of those rare people that loves snow, so I guess I have to go to Erie or Syracuse or Buffalo sometime if I want to experience it. Because when I grew up, we had it all the time. Sure, now we don't.

We grew to like it and there was snow all the time. Uh, I don't miss it now, and I certainly don't miss the shoveling and the ice and all of that stuff. But there's something really lovely about having all four seasons and being able to get the richness of all four seasons.

Yes, yes, I agree. Well, Rabbi, I'm going to ask you a question that I'll bet so many people have asked you this question. Why and when did you decide to become a rabbi?

So the decision was one that, that took time. I actually started thinking about becoming a rabbi when I was a young child. I was 8, 9, 10. Wow. My parents took my siblings and me to synagogue pretty regularly. We didn't go every week, but we went regularly. At the same time, in those years, my father was a lawyer and very active in politics, and he was running for office during those years. And I can remember campaigning with him, and I noticed as a kid that often the rabbi and the politician were speaking about the same issues, but that one seemed to be able to do it more honestly than the other. And that caught my attention. And so I started toying with the idea back then, uh, and kind of went back and forth. I studied privately with a couple of different rabbis in high school and in college, and I took classes back and forth. Uh, I majored in politics, but I minored in Jewish studies. Uh, and so I kept kind of wrestling back and forth between the two. Uh, the last two years of college, I ended up being the head of the Jewish student organization at my university, and we founded a Hillel, a Jewish student center. And the process of leading the Jewish community, uh, I found really wonderful. And what I realized was if I could do something that didn't feel like work, then I was really lucky. And overwhelmingly, what I do doesn't feel like work for me. I feel really honored to do what I do every day. And so, by the end of college, it had become pretty clear that while I had entertained ideas of law and politics, my heart was really in being a rabbi. And even more, it was a sense of recognizing who I was, that the rabbi thing was in me, and I had to just sort of own it and say, "Okay, this is who I am. I need to go to seminary, and I need to to go forward with this. And so I did. And it took me a little while to figure out which seminary and to figure out, you know, exactly the right place. But it was without question the right move. And being able to serve the Jewish people, being able to be a voice for those who are in need, being able to be with people at intimate moments, all of those are privileges. And honors, and I take them very seriously and I hold them very deeply. And it's not to say that I don't get stressed once in a while. If you were to ask my wife or my kids, they would for sure tell you that once in a while I'm stressed. But what I do— I'm really lucky— what I do doesn't feel like work to me. What I do feels like helping society, like helping people grow and learn. It feels like being an agent of change to make the world better. And what could be better than that, right?

I know, I mean, I agree with you what you're saying about work. I always tell people, if you don't love it, don't do it. You know, it just— if it's like laborious to you, you're in the wrong profession. So Rabbi, how long does it take to learn Hebrew?

Depends on how good you are at foreign languages. So, I went to Hebrew school as a kid, and I learned to read the prayers. I didn't learn Hebrew language until college. And it's like learning any language. If you have a facility for languages, you can pick it up within a year or two. If language is difficult, it may take a little longer. And I still wrestle with it. I teach classes where I go back and forth between Hebrew and English, and routinely somebody will ask me, "Tell me about this word." And Hebrew words are multivalent. It can be this or that or another version, depending on how it's vocalized and the context. And so, I still wrestle with Hebrew words all the time.

And, oh yeah, I can't— cannot imagine how hard— that would seem very hard to me. As you said, I'm sure if you have an apt for foreign languages. That's how my friend Richard Roberts is. He's in the U.S. State Department, but every time he goes to a new country, he has to learn the language. I mean, it's amazing to me that he can go from Korean to Japanese to Portuguese. Really, everywhere he goes, he has to take off X amount of time to learn the language. So I really do think you have to have like, you know, an orientation toward that, you know what I mean? Uh, sure, to learn all those languages.

Yeah. And for me, my mother was a French teacher, and she had an unbelievable knack for languages. She— the grammar came easily to her, and she could pick up accents. So as a French teacher, she spent a lot of time in France, and she could flip into an Alsace language in the north, to a Normandy language in the south, to a Parisian accent, and just move around. I can't do that in English. I can't go to Brooklyn and sound like I'm from Brooklyn and then go to Mississippi and sound like I'm from Mississippi. But she could. She just had that facility. And I have some of her ear, but nowhere near what she had. So I've been lucky in that I had some advantage with it. But it's a real skill.

It is. Wow, that is amazing. Well, if you just joined us, we are talking to Rabbi Daniel Fellman, who is the senior rabbi at Temple Sinai right here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We're going to go to break and we will be right back. Stay with us.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, hey, welcome back to the show. If you just joined us, we're talking to Rabbi Daniel Feldman, senior rabbi at Temple Sinai right here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and it is a pleasure to have him on. I just want to remind everyone, if you said, oh, but I missed the first part of the show, or if you want to share it with someone Here's what you do. Go to Spotify, benderconsult.com, voiceamerica.com, Apple. To be honest with you, almost every social venue, and you'll be able to hear all the old shows, uh, and share it with someone else, which I hope you do. So, uh, Rabbi, how did Temple Sinai celebrate Jewish Disability Awareness and Inclusion Month in February. You know, I am so appreciative of the Jewish community honoring and including people with disabilities every year in February. As a matter of fact, although you weren't there yet, I spoke at Temple Sinai in 2021 about how people with disabilities should be included with equity in the workforce. And when I talked about disabilities, I used as my example Moses, who spoke with stuttering lips. But anyway, thank you so much, you know, for, for including us. So what, what happened What did you do in February?

One of the really wonderful parts of this congregation and community is a commitment to diversity and a commitment to including as many people as humanly possible. We moved here 3 years ago, and one of the things that really attracted me to this congregation and this community was the commitment to disabilities and to awareness and to inclusion. So we spend the whole month of February focused on this. And we do a special Shabbat evening service, a Sabbath service that's led by our Disability Awareness and Inclusion Working Group. And so we have speakers who talk about their own experiences. And we bring in artists and all sorts of folks to help us understand more. And we're constantly looking for ways to be inclusive, to bring more people in and to bring more to the table. So this year we did a dance party, and we were honoring one of our own who is a teacher who on the side is a dance teacher, and she specializes in teaching dance to special needs kids. She is truly a gift in a thousand ways. She is a gift from God, and I say that not just as her rabbi but as the father of one of her students. What she does with her students is extraordinary, and to be able to honor Sam and to celebrate all that she does for the community was a treat. And so that was the focus of our celebration this year, was really honoring Sam. But our Disability Awareness and Inclusion Task Force meets regularly, constantly looking for ways that we can make the building and our community more accessible. Whether that means setting up electric door openers so you just push a button rather than having to pull a door, or having closed captioning, or a sign language interpreter at services, or having large print prayer books, or any number of different things. We are committed to inclusion, and we are committed to having a community that is welcoming for all of us. It is one of the hallmarks of this congregation, and it is my honor to be a part of it all.

You know what? Again, kudos to you. I think that is so great. You know, other churches, even in my faith as a Christian, need to look at that, what you are doing. I think that is Fabulous. And again, I thank you for doing that because I'll be honest with you, so often people with disabilities are left behind and they are stigmatized. I always say, remember, in September 1939, the first group that Hitler had exterminated were people with disabilities. Genocide. Uh, and, and, uh, it's just so great you do that. It is. It's so great you do that. So, Rabbi, October 27th, 2018, the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh—

sure—

would become the site of the worst massacre of any Jewish synagogue ever. 17 lives were lost that horrific day, a day I would say none of us in Pittsburgh, and I, I would say across the United States for that matter, or in around the world, will never forget. I wanted to ask you, where were you at this time that it happened, and how did it impact you?

Sure, it was actually 11 lives that were lost that day. It is the worst antisemitic incident on American soil. So it is an interesting story, actually. In 2000, in that year, I was living still in Syracuse, and at the time, in October, I was leading a trip to Israel with 2 other rabbis from my community. And so we were in Jerusalem, actually, at the time of the attack, and the Orthodox rabbi was the one who heard about it first, because at the time, one of his children lived here. And so he got a message from his son saying, "You're going to hear about all of this. We're fine." Which was unusual because he's pretty traditional, and using electronics and stuff on Shabbat is not usually done, but to save a life, you do that. And so his son reached out to him. I'll never forget, we were in Jerusalem, and that night, the city of Jerusalem broadcast in lights on the walls of the Old City a sign that says, "We stand with Pittsburgh." And it was just this stunning, powerful thing to see on the ancient walls of Jerusalem, "We stand with Pittsburgh." Wow. The next morning, Sunday morning, I woke up early and ran into the Arab market in the Old City, where I knew a little store existed that sold t-shirts and sweatshirts that had American sports logos in Hebrew letters. And I bought a Pittsburgh Steelers t-shirt in Hebrew. It had the Steelers logo, but it said Pittsburgh Steelers in Hebrew, never dreaming that I would end up living in Pittsburgh. But I wanted something that said Pittsburgh close to my body. And so I bought that shirt, and I came back to the hotel, and the other rabbis and I recorded a video message to our community in Syracuse And we met with our participants on our trip. There were about 25 of us on that trip. And we talked about it. And I wore that shirt that one day and thought, well, we'll see if this ever comes out of the closet again. And then a few years later, got a phone call saying, we want to talk to you about this job in Pittsburgh. And next thing you know, we're here. And so now I have this great Pittsburgh shirt. And so I was not in Pittsburgh at the time. I wasn't part of the Pittsburgh community. But Pittsburgh was very much a part of me that day, and it has stayed with me.

Yeah, me too. It's fun, the example you gave about that phone call, the first person I called was Joan Stein. And she didn't even have to say hello. She answered the phone and said, "I'm fine." I mean, that was just Those 11 people, I mean, you know, they will never be forgotten. That was absolutely horrific. And just, you know, that anti-Semitism— I mean, Semitism is terrible, but for someone to do that, oh my God, that was terrible. I still remember the mayor saying When you see a police officer, say thank you. And I did. I did. Because I was so appreciative that they put their lives on the line that day.

So this is one of the interesting parts for us as Jews. Throughout most of history, Jews ran afraid from the police. The police historically were never particularly good or nice to Jewish people. It's one of the reasons, one of the many reasons, that Jewish people and African American people have had a bond, because we both had difficulties being profiled and being pushed around by the police. This was one of the very first times in all of Jewish history when the police came running into a synagogue to save Jewish lives. And to live in a time where that is possible is extraordinary. And what it taught me was, A, to appreciate the gift I have, and B, to make sure that that exists for other people. So when I hear African Americans talking about their difficulties with the police, I take it seriously, and I recognize the severity of the problem. And I, I, I'm not trying to diss the police here, don't get me wrong, but whatever we can do to make sure that people feel safe and protected and cared for, we must do that.

And yeah, I agree.

That, that's one of the enduring lessons of the whole experience for me, is to say, thank God I live in this time. How can I share that goodness with others?

Yes, I, I so agree with you, Rabbi. Well, folks, right now it's time for our news break on the half hour, and as you all know, our newscaster Perri Jude Radesik will be back soon, but she's been out for the past few weeks, and our own Gerald Homme is giving us the update on the news. So Gerald, are you with us?

I'm here, Joyce.

Okay, go ahead.

Thank you so much for having me, and thank you, Rabbi Foham, for all that you're doing for our community. We've got some positive news here. You know, just the other day was International Hearing Day, World Hearing Day, and the World Health Organization, to celebrate, issued new guidance to improve access to hearing care in low- and middle-income settings. So we celebrated this on March 3rd, just 2 days ago. World Hearing Day, and it won't surprise you, Joyce Bender, there's two things that are impacting hearing care, and that one of those big things is stigma. People who do not want to seek out hearing care that are hard of hearing or struggling with hearing loss will not seek out hearing aids or other forms of care. So, the World Health Organization has issued new guidelines and new booklets to educate healthcare workers on how they can break down stigma and encourage people to seek out care when they have loss of hearing throughout the globe. And to break down— and to help the system to enable people in those low-income and middle-income settings to be able to gain access to the care that they need to enable their hearing for many of those that use hearing aids, such as yourself, Ms. Joyce Bender. So, great positive news for— from the World Health Organization for World Hearing Day.

Oh, thank you, Gerald. And may I comment on that and say, just as Gerald pointed out, my listeners know that in 1985, I had a terrible accident where I had a seizure at a movie theater and fell and hit the floor so hard I fractured my skull, had a brain hemorrhage and subsequent life-saving brain surgery, and the realization that I was living with epilepsy. But what you may not know is that that skull fracture impacted my— the bones in my right inner ear. Therefore, I have a 70% hearing loss on my right side. And I certainly wear a hearing aid. I do not understand why people do not wear hearing aids if they cannot hear, because they wear glasses if they cannot see. So if you are listening and you're one of those people, you are missing out. You will miss out information and conversation. Don't be ashamed. Remember what I said, if you can't see, you get glasses. Get that hearing aid. And Gerald, you're right, there is stigma, but at least we have World Hearing Day working on this issue. Gerald, thank you, and thank you for calling in.

Thank you, Joyce Bender.

Have a great day, everyone.

Thank you. You know what I mean, Rabbi? People go to the synagogue or church, for example, they sit in the back, they don't hear what's being said. They don't know, and yet they don't want to get a hearing aid. Don't understand it. I'm right with you. I'm right with you. So Rabbi Daniel, we talked about this horrible, horrible, uh, tragic massacre at the Jewish synagogue. Now, how did the Jewish community deal with all of this? Because there was a month-long trial and then finally a death penalty verdict. But going through all of that, hearing all of that testimony, seeing, uh, this domestic terrorist had to reopen so many wounds for so many people. So what, what are you, and what did other synagogues do during that time to support people?

It has been a very difficult time. Last summer was particularly challenging. What we tried to do was to recognize the blessings that existed to be thankful for, for the authorities, not only the police who ran into the building to save people, but all of the people in the judicial system who made sure that a fair trial could take place. We studied Jewish tradition. You know, what does Judaism say about the death penalty? What does Judaism say about how the accused should be treated? And we did everything we could to honor the victims as much as we could. The pain of that day will never go away. The only real difference is that as you learn to live with it, it just becomes a part of living and becomes a part of life, sort of the way a scar does on your body. But we have wrestled with it. So we've had a year-long— we're in the midst of a year-long study process looking at Jewish views on the death penalty in the Talmud, in Jewish law, to try and understand. So, you know, what does our tradition actually teach us? And while the death penalty is on the books in Judaism, it was very seldom used, almost never. And the accused in this case comes pretty close to meeting the qualifications for it. Not quite, but pretty close. And so it's a It's an interesting challenge. For me, personally, there were 3 steps along the way in that trial. The third was giving the accused the death penalty. The second one was deciding whether the person was eligible for the death penalty. And the first was guilt or innocence. The second stage for me was the one that was really the most significant. The guilt or innocence was pretty clear. When the courts ruled that, that he was eligible for the death penalty, what that said to me was, all right, our society and our community have wrestled with this and determined that a brutal crime took place and that we need to create the right punishment. Now, whether I agree with the death penalty or not is a different conversation. But that intermediate step, which doesn't always occur in every trial— it occurred in this one because it was a federal case— for me was really significant. And it, it allowed us to say, look, this person really did something awful, and we agree. Now we've got to decide what to do about it. What that did was say collectively as a society, we take this seriously. We want to do what's right, and we recognize that we have an obligation here. I think that was a big process for the whole Jewish community to wrestle. There are those in the Jewish community who support the death penalty and those who are opposed to the death penalty. Within Jewish tradition, there's room for both positions, and I don't begrudge someone. I mean, they're entitled to their own view on that as there are any number of issues. The question is, are, you know, do we understand all of this and how our tradition works it through? And so we spend a lot of time learning what our tradition has to say about it. We still honor the memories of the victims, and we honor the resilience of our community, and the blessings of being a part of Squirrel Hill in particular that came together in such a meaningful way.

Yeah, when you said about the pain not going away, I always tell people, uh, grief does not have an expiration date. You know, it's, it's just sort of like the new normal. It's with you. Of course things get better, but it's still with you. What you said, the scars, are still with you. So I think it's wonderful how the synagogues and all of you have got together to try to provide healing and resources for people, as I said, having to go through all that all over again, which leads me to my next question. Sure. Rabbi, as a Christian, I do not understand and never will understand how anyone of faith could allow antisemitism to thrive. Jewish people make up 2.4% of the population, but are a target of 60% of hate crimes linked to religion. Now, I have asked this question, I'm going to ask you, I'm not kidding, forever. Why is that? I mean, I don't get why is that? Like, what have Jewish people done that would cause this. How are they different other than, you know, their faith? But many people have different faiths, you know, Buddhist, Hindu. So why is this?

I wish I had a quick and easy answer for you. I mean, antisemitism is one of the oldest hates around, and it goes way back in history, way, way, way, way back, you know, thousands of years back. Judaism is a unique faith. Judaism is not an easy faith. In some places where faith gives black and white answers, Judaism often gives a gray answer. And that can be challenging sometimes. I wish I could tell you I understood why antisemitism exists, but I can't explain why it exists any more than I can explain why any other hatred exists. I mean, there's no rhyme or reason that we should like a person who has this skin color but not like one who likes that skin color, or favor this hair color over that hair color. It just— there's no logic there. None. And so, for me as a Jew, I work hard to value all of us as reflections of the Divine, with an understanding that the Divine is pretty broad. Which means there are lots of us who can look pretty different from each other and still be reflections of the Divine and still be holy. And so, that becomes part of the answer to all of this. It is building a sense of holiness that we share. You know, in the days since the war began in Israel and Gaza, the level of hatred towards Jews has gone through the roof. Now, the stories of what's happening there are difficult and it's complex. But to turn to antisemitism doesn't solve the problem at hand. And I think the way to solve the problem is to say, look, all of us are holy, all of us are a reflection of the divine, and in the case of Israel anyway, there are multiple people who call that land sacred and call it home. And we've got to find a way to live together. We can't keep killing each other. And that's a hard message, but it's an important message. And so antisemitism isn't going to go away. My children are going to face it, and their children will face it too. But what we can do, each in our own little way, is to build connections and links with people who are different from us. And so I can reach out to my Muslim friends and say to them, Look, I know we don't agree on everything, but I still value our friendship, and on the times when we can work together, I look forward to being your partner. And it's that sort of attitude that will make the world better and make the world more whole. And so that's what I choose to do. Uh, ask me in 50 years how it worked out and I'll give you an answer.

Well, If you are one of those people because of the war going on in the Middle East, may I say that if you turn to hatred and/or violence, how are you different?

Right.

How are you different? You're not. So I want to say to all of our listeners who are people with disabilities, business people, and people able-bodied, you realize antisemitism is like ableism. And you, if you don't get it, it doesn't matter if you're Jewish, from the gay community, African American, indigenous, female, I don't care what you are. Hey, disability does not discriminate. There is this thing called intersectionality. So, what I'm saying to you, it's in the New and Old Testament, "Love your neighbor as yourself." You need to remember those words or you fall prey to the same mentality. So, when you think of your brothers and sisters, remember what I said. Some of those people are people with disabilities. Don't be an ableist. Don't be someone that is filled with antisemitism. They're all wrong, equally wrong. So, you know, I stand behind you and the Jewish community. Rabbi Feldman, and I would encourage everyone, oh my goodness, this world would be so better if it was just do unto others. It would be— you can't be a person of my faith and be filled with hatred. That is not my faith. So, Rabbi, I have a question for you.

Sure.

I read one of your speeches, and I know you went up to Mount Sinai, the mountain Moses climbed. How did that impact you?

It was a very powerful experience. So I lived in Israel in 1998 and 1999, so about 25 years ago. I was doing a year of seminary there. And we took a side trip and we went down to Egypt, a group of us, and on the way back from Cairo, we went through the Sinai Desert and we spent a couple of days in the Sinai, and we actually climbed Mount Sinai. And it was fascinating. It is— first of all, it's not a huge mountain. It took us a couple hours to climb. We went in the middle of the night, so we saw the sunrise from Mount Sinai. And it was just an extraordinary, powerful experience to stand in that spot and think about how much of our world has been affected by what happened there one time so long ago. And whether one believes that God wrote the whole thing right then, or that humans wrote it, either way, the events of that place at that time have had a profound effect. And it was— so on the one hand, it was, you know, the physical of climbing the mountain and then sort of tucking in and waiting for the sun to rise. On the other hand, it was just this really extraordinary experience of connecting with history and faith and possibility, and sort of this interesting intersection where history and belief came together. So it was a very powerful experience.

And if you don't know what we're talking about, in the Judeo-Christian faith, Mount Sinai— Moses went up to Mount Sinai, met God, and there came the Ten Commandments. So that is why, uh, with Rabbi Feldman that would be, I would say, spectacular to you.

It was, it was definitely spectacular for me.

Well, it's funny you said it's not real high because I'm envisioning this huge mountain, Mount Sinai. So, so that's interesting when you said that.

So here in Pittsburgh, we might call it a hill. No kidding.

Wow, amazing. I maybe could climb it then.

For that matter, I mean, the Jordan River, you know, we hear about this, the Jordan River. By Pittsburgh standards, it would be a creek. It's, it's barely big enough to have a few canoes on. It's, it's not, it's not a big huge river.

Uh, oh my goodness.

It is not the Allegheny or the, or the Monongahela. It's, it's a much smaller body of water.

Wow, yeah, right. I don't envision that either. Well, see, I'm learning a lot today. Small river, small mountain. So Rabbi, you know, I just loved having you on here. I, I did. And you're such a good, good man and have such great views and, uh, is such a loving person. So obviously you were impacted by people or you wouldn't be like this. So, Rabbi, who was your role model?

I had a lot. I was very lucky. I had parents who were wonderful role models and grandparents who were wonderful role models. I had older siblings who were role models. I had a neighbor. Our next-door neighbors were a very observant Catholic family, and we were close, and we're still close. For years, I did Easter with— I painted Easter eggs with them and helped them decorate their Christmas tree. And I would get an Easter basket from them for years and years. We still talk pretty regularly, and Mrs. Hartung, who's now in her mid-90s, has been a huge role model for me. She'd never own it, but it's true. I've had teachers along the way. I've had rabbis who have taken me in. I've had lots of role models, and today, though they'd be surprised to hear it, my children are. I learn a lot from them. I learn more from them, I think, than from anybody else. And so I'm very fortunate. I've had lots of models around me.

Well, you have to make sure all those people hear this show. Let me ask you while we're on it, what was your most difficult obstacle when you decided you wanted to be a rabbi?

My most difficult obstacle. Hmm. Well, sitting through 5 or 6 years of graduate school wasn't exactly easy, and rabbinical school is definitely that. So, that might be it. There were parts of rabbinical school that were great fun and that I enjoyed, and there were parts of it that were daunting. You know, it's a pretty heavy-duty, serious graduate program.

Well, actually, that was a question I also wanted to ask you. If some young person is listening to the show right now and they have that same calling, what do they have to do after they graduate? Well, first of all, do you have to graduate from college? I'm assuming yes.

Yes, yes. What they should do is call somebody like me now and, and, you know, start finding mentors who can guide them and help them the same way I did. The world needs good rabbis, and the world needs good ministers, and there is always room for good faith leaders. It is a deeply rewarding life. It is not always the easiest life, but it is deeply, deeply rewarding. And I think if a person is hearing that call, whether they're a young person or middle-aged, the answer is to take it seriously, to listen to it, and to reach out, and to talk to other people, and to say, "So, help me walk through this. Just listen to me for a little bit and be my guide." And I suspect that if a person does that, they'll find all sorts of folks who will happily be the GPS sitting in the passenger seat and help guide them.

Yeah. You know, I go to Northway Christian Community Church, and one time someone asked our pastor, Scott Hey, if you want to be in the ministry, what all is involved? And he said, talk to me before, because you are thinking, you know, you think of all the fun things or the nice things or the good things, but you may not be thinking about meeting with a mother when her child has just died, or meeting with someone like this horrific shooting, you know, meeting with a son or daughter of one of those people. He said, "And you know, you need to talk to someone to get the full picture," which really is what you're saying.

Sure. I'll tell you a little story. The first fall— so I started rabbinical school in the fall of '96.— and that winter I was home over winter break, and I was shadowing my own rabbi. My rabbi was a really wonderful soul. His name was Paul Drazen. He died about 5, 6 years ago. Paul was wonderful, and so Paul would have me shadow him. So, there was an elderly woman who died. She was in her late 80s. She'd had Alzheimer's. She'd been living in a nursing home for 7 or 8 years. Her death was a blessing. A blessing. In every way, her death was a blessing. She had suffered, her family had suffered. This was about as far from a tragic death as you could get. And so, I sat with him as he met with the family, and we talked about the eulogy, and I sat with him as he wrote the eulogy, and we co-officiated the ceremony. It was a cold winter day, and it was a graveside funeral, and he had me read some psalms and participate in it. And I did all of that, and the rest of winter break went on as it did, and I went back to school, and within a couple of weeks of being back at school, at the seminary, I was bothered so much by the experience that I called and got applications for law school, and was thinking about leaving the whole thing and going to become a lawyer. And I called him and I said, "I just want you to know, here's where I am." And my rabbi listened to me, and then he paused for a moment, and he said, "Daniel, Your reaction is exactly right. If doing a funeral was easy, this isn't the thing you should be doing. And your reaction is exactly what a good rabbi should be. And he said, put off the law school thing, leave it in the corner of your desk and forget about it. Go back to work in the seminary and do what you got to do. And don't be afraid of all of this. I remember thinking, you know, how could I possibly do justice for this person's memory in a half an hour or an hour service or whatever it was? What I realized then was the first funeral that I do that's easy is the last funeral I do. And I've held to that. I've held to that. These are important for a reason. He was a huge influence, and his response to me was completely reassuring. And it's one that I've carried with me. I mean, all these years later, 25, 26 years later, here I am talking talking about it. Uh, and he was right.

Look at the impact that had on you.

Wow.

Yeah. Wow. Uh, well, what message do you want to leave with our listeners, Rabbi?

Uh, look in the mirror and, and recognize the holiness in front of you. See the holiness in yourself. Start there. When you see the holiness in yourself, it's a whole lot easier to see the holiness in others. And if we start by recognizing our own holiness, then it's that much more difficult to not find it in someone else. And when we see it in somebody else, it becomes that much harder to have a problem with them because we recognize their holiness. And so we might disagree on this issue or that issue, but we can still see each other's holiness and we can still see the value that each of us has. And that's the way we make our world more whole. It's step by step. Amen. Relationship by relationship. Bit by bit.

Yeah, amen. Well, thank you for being with us, Rabbi Feldman. Uh, and we will end every show with a quote. So today it is: Our lives begin to end when we become silent about things that matter. Said Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And in the words of Mary Brooker, remember, when you go out today, choose joy.

Absolutely, absolutely.

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