Rachel Kallem Whitman: Living with Bipolar:

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show, to everyone in the United States and around the world, and I am gonna do something I haven't done for a while. I have to start doing this more often. I want to congratulate and send my thanks to all these countries that listen to the show, and they change, they change as we go along, but right now this is right now accurate. So Australia, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Canada, Uruguay, Kenya, Costa Rica, France, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Sweden, Russia, and Brazil. Unbelievable that we have people faithfully listen to this show. Australia, you're really rocking it, I've got to tell you, you're really rocking it, keep it up. Even if there's one person in a country that goes to other people and says, hey, listen, this radio show, anyone that speaks English, you've got to hear it. You've got to hear it because it's all about quality of life for people living with disabilities. So once again, thank you. Thank you. And of course, I love my listeners in the United States. Love all of you. You know how much it means to me when I go somewhere and someone says, Joyce Bender, 'Joyce Bender, I'm a fan. I listen to your show all the time.' Oh, it really warms my heart. But more importantly, you're helping me because guess what? Yes, this is the 20th anniversary of the radio show. Can you believe it? I can't believe it, so I'm sure you can't. But yes, this is my 20th anniversary. You know why? Because of all of you great listeners. Thank you so much for believing in me and supporting me and telling other people about the show. You know, if you miss us live, you just go to Spotify, Apple, voiceamerica.com, benderconsult.com, and you put in Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com, and you can hear any of the old shows and you can share any of them. So make sure you check it out. Hey, Yoshiko Dart, special shout out to you. For those of you that don't know, why do you do that every show? Why? Because Yoshiko is the widow of the late Justin Dart, Who was a pioneer, general, great leader. If you're in the disability community and disability rights, all you have to do is say one word, Justin, and everyone knows who you're talking about. Um, he and Yoshiko went around the country, I think 5 times before the ADA was written, encouraging people to support the Americans with Disabilities Act. He was our Martin Luther King Jr., and I do not want anyone to forget about him because sadly, and I will tell this to our professor on the show today, you go through, um, education and you'll see you won't hear information about, you know, disability. Disability History. So I'm not going to forget it. This has been like 6 years I've been doing this. But Yoshiko, you know that I love you, and I want to thank Highmark, who has been our lead sponsor. Wow. David Holmberg, CEO, thank you so much. Well, as we're celebrating Mental Health Awareness Month, I was so— I am so excited. I was so excited about this show today with Dr. Rachel Kellam Whitman, who's an educator, advocate, and memorist, and just a great leader for people with disabilities. I am so excited to have you on as we celebrate. And Rachel, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Joyce. I am so excited to have the opportunity to chat with you and all of your listeners. And it sounds like you have so many listeners. This is quite the party, so thank you for inviting me.

Yes, it is quite the party. So we will get the party started by you sharing with our listeners your story. You are an acclaimed speaker, advocate, educator, author, advocate, and person living with a mental health disability. But let's start because we're going to be talking on and on about your story. So let's start with where you grew up, and then where you went on to school, and how long you've lived in Pittsburgh. And I know in your book something happened in Pittsburgh when you made a decision. So let's talk about all of that, starting with the beginning. Rachel, where did you grow up?

So thank you so much, Joyce Bender. So as we might be discussing, I am a professor and I teach courses in disability studies. And one of the things in my classes we talk so much about is is access. Above everything else, access is so important. It gives people opportunities to have the same experience and benefit from things. And so, when I start a podcast or presentation, I always like to start with an image description. And an image description is basically really saying who I am, what I look like, to give people context. And this is something that's really useful for radio shows, also things that are being filmed, especially if somebody is low vision or has low sight. And so I always like to kind of give my, the amazing people listening or watching, just a sense of who I am. So I am a white woman. I am proudly fat. I wear glasses. I have a lot of tattoos. And I love how you brought up Pittsburgh because I actually have a bridge tattoo of the Rachel Carson Bridge. So I am very much excited to be a Yinzher. And my pronouns are she/her. And I also do this that I think is important, especially during Mental Health Awareness Month, is I always encourage audiences in the US to put the 3-digit number 988 in your phone. 988 is the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline number. And it is always good to have access to that information just in case you or someone you know is in a crisis and you need help. So listeners in the U.S., I would highly recommend to put that in your phone so you have it if you need it.

And that's 988.

You got it.

988. So, okay, so did you grow up in Pittsburgh then?

So I actually did not grow up in Pittsburgh. I grew up in Arlington, Virginia. And so That is where I spent most of my life. I ended up going to college in Charlottesville, Virginia. But I think when I moved to Pittsburgh, and I moved here in 2008, I think this was the first time I found a sense of community, both in regards to looking at it through the circles of both non-disabled and disabled community. When I came to Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, it was suddenly for me this like, this stage in my life where I felt ready to truly explore who I am in a city that I just really love. And so for me, Pittsburgh is just this beautiful, magical place. And if anybody is from Pittsburgh, we are going to, you know, Pittsburghers, we love to be from our city and we like to share how we put French fries on sandwiches and salads. And so I am just here for it. So, go Steelers! You cannot have a Pittsburgher interviewed if they don't give a shout out to some of the sports teams.

That's right. Go Pirates!

Go!

Woo! If you were here, and you'll have to come out, Rachel, because I am headquartered in Pittsburgh, and I have on my wall all these famous pirate paintings and prints with center, front and center, Roberto Clemente. So, yeah, you're right. Pittsburghers, our sports, and of course, we love the Penguins also, but I'm just a major, major into baseball. But, you know, what you said about community, I always tell people, if you're in Pittsburgh, you could go into a grocery store, a coffee shop, whatever it would be, and see these two people, the cashier and that person, in this big conversation. And you say, wow, they must know each other really well. And in the meantime, no, they just met. That's how we are in Pittsburgh. We'll go somewhere and we'll just start— Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm having a knee replacement surgery Thursday. So you could see— that's true, I really am. So you could see me go, here I am in Sheetz getting coffee. Yeah, I'm having knee replacement surgery Thursday. And them saying, no kidding. This is what happened to me. That's just how we are in Pittsburgh. Love it. Yeah, and I got to tell you, Rachel, I spoke one time at MIT and this professor takes me aside and says, what's wrong with you people in Pittsburgh? You must have terrible eating habits. I said, what do you mean? Well, I've never heard of a chicken salad with French fries. You actually put French fries on your salad. And I said, you mean other places don't do that? I really, I really thought, oh, I thought all steak salads, chicken salads are like this. And then they brought up, of course, and you have that sandwich, that parmigiana sandwich. Yeah, you have, well, yeah, we do have that, but as she said, And we're proud we have it, right, Rachel?

Oh, yes. Long live the French fry. We are here for it.

So what brought you to Pittsburgh, Rachel?

So actually, a few things ended up bringing me to Pittsburgh. Primarily, my husband went to Carnegie Mellon University, and we kind of dated long distance. And after we both graduated, we were both like, okay, we need to, you know, be in the same state, be in the same city. And so I decided, I was like, you know what, I am going to come to Pittsburgh. And honestly, it was, you know, one of the best decisions I have ever made in terms of, yes, you know, I have made so many friends. I have had so many, you know, opportunities professionally. And also, this place, I really credit Pittsburgh with creating a safe space for me to fully explore my life with bipolar disorder.

Wow. Well, we're glad you came here. Hey, I have to tell you—

Thank you.

About podcasts, you know, when you're talking about disability studies, I was talking to a customer. Now wait till you hear this. Yeah. In Canada, and they make students listen to some of my podcasts. Oh, really? Yeah, so, you know, I'll be telling them, "Hey, Dr. Rachel Callum-Widman actually teaches disability studies. You should listen to that show." Yeah, their favorite was Temple Grandin. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, we won't tell the CEO of Highmark that, but anyway, I wanted you to tell us, tell us about that class at Duquesne. Tell us about the class.

Yeah, so I teach disability studies courses at Duquesne, and I work with some of the best students. They are incredibly curious, and I think curiosity is such a gift to have that drive to want to learn more and to ask questions. And for my class, I think the things that I really like to highlight is that we, I mean, we talk about how disability and mental illness mental illness. They are not really just like diagnoses. They are a way life is experienced. And we try to have diverse opportunities, listen to diverse guest speakers who chat with our classes about what it is to be disabled in America. And one of the things, too, I think is really important is giving my students language to talk about these things. And in, in the U.S., disability is still somewhat of a taboo or uncomfortable conversation to have. And so I think we are in this process of building foundational conversations. And just along those lines of communicating, one of the things I do, my students totally dig this, is that before, you know, at the start of every class, we have sign time where I teach my students a sign in Sign Language. And it is just really a great way, I think, to begin the class on this note of looking at disability as culture.

I think that's great you do that. Oh, that is awesome. So now I know then you know I'm right when I say that, you know, go down the street and say, who's Justin Dart? Who's Judy Heumann? Although you would think everyone would know that. But then go down the street and say, hey, who's, you know, Martin Luther King Jr., Gloria Steinem, or, you know, whoever it is. And Harvey Milk, and they know. They know who they are. And that's because, you know, we don't do a lot education on disability history. So I'm glad—

We really don't.

Well, I'm glad that you are.

So thank you. I appreciate it. Oh, I'm sorry, Joyce.

No, go ahead.

I was just going to say, like, along what you were, you were saying, there's you know, how when I start teaching my classes and we talk about disability history, all my students, they are like, "We did not know." And they honestly sometimes feel bad they did not know this stuff. And I always have to tell them that the reality is someone decided that disability was not worth talking about. Someone was like, "Okay, we are coming up with a curriculum. Eh, disability history, not necessary." necessarily anything important. And so that's part of unpacking ableism, which is the name of one of my classes, is kind of thinking about why— wait, why have we for so long thought disability and people who are disabled are not important?

Yeah, I know. Judy Heumann actually asked me, Joyce, because I've been working in employment since 1995, As you know, I live with epilepsy and I'm hard of hearing. And so my big crusade is to find competitive employment for people with disabilities and how we could be the 33rd anniversary of the ADA this year and still 70% of people with disabilities not counted in the workforce is so terrible and hard to understand. So about a month before Judy died, she asked me, Joyce, we always talked about this employment. What is it? Is it still stigma? And I said, well, of course there will always be stigma, of course. But you know what? It's getting worse. It's not just stigma and pity. You know what it is now? Not seeing you. And if you don't see the person, you don't feel sorry for them and you don't see stigma. You don't see them. And that's what really— that's why when you said that, you know, someone decided this is not important to know this. That's what happened. And of course, yeah, ableism. And they didn't have a disability. We know that. Well, let me tell you, in your book, which I want to talk about your book. Oh, it's so good. Instability in Six Colors. If you go to— is it rachelcallumwhitman.com or rachelcallum.com, your website? What is it?

It's actually seebrightness.com.

See as in S-E-E?

You got it, yeah.

Seebrightness.com. Okay, so if you go there, you can read about this book, but of course If you go to Amazon, you can purchase this book. But you've got this one phrase in there I thought, oh, that's an interesting way to talk about that. And it was about shacking up with bipolar disorder. I thought, okay, that's a new way of saying that. But, but I— but boy, puts it right out there the way it is. So I know that to you, of course, this isn't pleasant because I also read that little paragraph where you talked about how people say, um, this helps me be a better person, or thank God for this, and you say, and I'm not thanking anyone because I don't like it. But for our listeners, I'm sure many of which have some type of mental health disability, possibly bipolar disorder, but maybe a relative, maybe a friend, maybe a spouse, maybe a partner, but they don't really know what it means to shack up with bipolar disorder. What is it like for you living with bipolar?

Thanks, Joyce. Yeah, I kind of try to be a little cheeky with that by saying I've been shacking up with bipolar disorder since 2000. So yeah, 23 years I've been living with bipolar disorder. And usually, honestly, that's my phrasing because bipolar disorder has been a significant part of my life, both in honestly good ways and in bad ways. And I think when I moved to Pittsburgh too, I really started putting a lot of energy to understand understanding myself. And I really kind of noticed that for me, bipolar was kind of a way of life for a really long time. I really felt kind of hijacked by the illness. And I kind of just felt like I had to live like an illness because my bipolar disorder— I have bipolar I, which is characterized by having a variety of cycles: hypomania, mania, depression. And also psychotic episodes. And for, you know, almost 2 decades, really how I understood myself was that I was sick. And my, you know, early days were really kind of, you know, riddled with mental illness being such a driving force in my life. And that is where I, you know, I go back and I really credit Pittsburgh kind of with this place of stability for me because I started realizing I can live outside of my illness. And yes, I have bipolar disorder, and bipolar disorder is a chronic illness. It's something I will need to manage my whole life, but I don't have to live like an illness. I can see myself as a full person who lives life on her own terms, not just somebody who's kind of constantly in the throes of an illness that tries to take over your life. And so, for me, shacking up with bipolar is kind of like, yeah, maybe bipolar disorder is— it's my roommate. Can't evict them. They're going to hang out here. But it's not the main detail of who I am as a person. I can live with it, but I don't have to live as a bipolar human being. I'm Rachel first and foremost.

Right. Yes, I agree. I tell that to people all the time. I mean, I'm living with epilepsy and of course I'm not ashamed, but yeah, I am Joyce Bender, a woman living with epilepsy. So I agree with you. Well, as I mentioned, Instability in Six Colors by Rachel Callum Whitman, you can purchase on Amazon. Is it at the Barnes Noble also, Rachel?

Yes, it is.

Okay. And you can find out all about it at her website. But I wanted to know why you named the book Instability in Six Colors, and if you could share what the book is about and then what you hope this does for readers of the book?

Sure.

So the, the, I have always been a writer. That has always been something that helps me process my experiences. And when I, I had a previous job that I had, I was really in this really stressful state. I was overwhelmed. I was in, you know, grad school. I had so much going on. And it ended up triggering a pretty severe depressive episode, which led into an episode of psychosis. And during that, I tried to die by suicide. And thank, you know, thank God I survived that. And afterwards, I realized that in order for me to fully live recovery, I actually did do something about it with intentionality. And so, with, you know, my therapist and my support system, I really just started compiling all of these stories together. They're, you know, short essays and poems, these different kinds of narratives. And I named it Instability in Six Colors because it kind of chronicles the different mood states that I experience, like hypomania, mania, depression, psychosis, and also looking at things in relation to how I understand my body, how I have relationships with people. And I like to say that, you know, I live in color. And so having these kind of core colors is really important throughout the book, because something in the book is that based on kind of the mood state at the time when the piece was written, I kind of want to give that content context. So, for example, I have a piece in the book that's called "The Beautiful Echo of Everything," and that piece is written through the voice of mania. And so you get this visual cue because that title of the piece is in gold. And throughout the book, anything in gold represents a manic phase. So everything in red is really referencing a psychotic episode. So, it's kind of a way, I think the colors are kind of these tour guides to see how I have lived a life where yes, there has been a lot of instability, but there has been a lot of color, a lot of brightness, which is actually why my website is called See Brightness, looking for the light.

That is a great name. Yeah, and I would encourage everyone to read this book. It really, You know what you did very well is you really made me see bipolar disorder, not read about it. And this is what bipolar disorder is. It can cause blank, blank, blank, blank, and it can be symptomatic. It really— I felt like, wow. Like I was in it, you know. I mean, you did that really well. You really did.

Thank you. Yeah, it was funny, I was talking to my husband, you know, actually a little bit before the podcast. I was, you know, kind of talking about— I was excited and, you know, ready to have this conversation, mentioned, you know, the book. And I was talking to him, I kind of realized this. I was like, you know, this book is kind of my recipe. I have kind of all of my stories and, you know, whether again they're poems or short essays, about who I am, like the pain I've had, the resilience that has really been part of my character throughout all of it. I was like, yeah, this book is my recipe. You put all of these chapters together and I'm the product. Like I pop out at the end and hopefully people, yeah, can see me and understand my experience, but then also have that moment to think about their background with illness, with disability, and without. And what are those core stories that really reveal who they are and who they want to be?

Yeah, I mean, I just think you did that very well. It really gave me the real authentic, authentic, like living in it. I mean, you really did a great job doing that in the book. Thank you. And that's why I would highly suggest if you haven't read this, and once again, it is really good, Instability in Six Colors by Dr. Rachel Callum Whitman. And you talked about different things, so many different things, one of which I really thought, wow, more people should feel like this, is talking about being fat. Why I say that is, you well know, many between social media, bullying, either through social media or in person, you know, there are young, young girls that have taken their life over weight, overweight, and not— and feeling, "I don't fit. There's something wrong with me." I'm ugly.

I'm—

I should be a size 2. Do you know what I mean? And I feel that when we do that, when we show these models that are really— you can never be that weight, some of these models. Yeah, I feel this really causes in many cases, I believe it caused suicidal ideation. I mean, what do you think about that?

Yeah, yeah. Um, so I'm an anorexia survivor, and anorexia also is a chronic illness. It is something where, you know, I like to say that I'm in remission. I haven't really had, um, in, in several years, do a lot, a lot of hard work, I haven't really been, you know, had an episode that, that's led to restricting. Eating disorders are so misunderstood. And anorexia has the highest morbidity rate— highest mortality rate, excuse me, than any other psychiatric illness.

And yet we still don't— Really? Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. It is. And it's one of the mental illnesses that gets the least amount of funding for research. And so again, it is this thing we have to look at the whys. A lot of times we associate eating disorders with being a, you know, a mental illness for women, even though that is not true. Everybody, you know, can have these experiences. But we really, you know, as a culture, we do look at weight as worth, and this idea that you need to fit a certain size. To be considered a valuable person. And there is a fat activist named Virgie Tovar who is amazing. She wrote a book called The Right to Remain Fat that I highly recommend. And one of the things she talks about is that, you know, living in a bigger body is hard because people are fatphobic. The problem actually isn't with her. It is how people who have these biased views surrounding bodies, it is how they treat And so I think this is a great, you know, opportunity to kind of hold a mirror up to society to wonder, like, why are we shaming people? And this goes to everything. Why are we shaming people if they are fat? Why are we shaming people if they have a mental illness? Why are we shaming people if they have a disability? And a lot of it comes from the fact that we do not understand people's experiences. I mean, empathy is a tool. I mean, we have to practice being empathetic. And a lot of times we just do not have the safe space to do that. So I think that is one of the reasons I love being a teacher, and I love writing this book, because it was really my way of trying to create a space for conversation with other people, with yourself, about aspects of your identity.

Well, I just, you know, I know from Bender Leadership Academy, you know, where we help high school students with disabilities and with mental health disabilities. I mean, I've heard people stand up and, you know, talk about this and what they've been through and how they've been treated at school. And, you know, it's just terrible. And that's what it's about. But my— my— one of the worst things I ever went through in my life ever is when I lost Mary Brooker. Mary— anyone that knows me in business knows who Mary is. Mary was the president at the company, but my extremely, extremely close friend for over 22 years. And she was hiking with people and she went to get her picture taken and she fell off a cliff in Utah and died. And it was—

I'm so sorry.

I couldn't even talk about this at all on the air because grief does not have an expiration date. So Yeah, so anyway, Mary lived with clinical depression for 40 years. And Mary, you know, if you would meet Mary, she was— she was— I always, when I talked about her on this video, I said she lived Pink's song. And I used to tell her, this is you, "Get the Party Started." I mean, Mary walked into a room and she was so charismatic and everything took off and She was just, ah, fantastic.

And she worked.

She loved, loved to help high school students living with mental health disabilities. So, you know, when she died, I said, hey, you know, Mary's never leaving this company, never. And that's when I started the Mary Brocker Mental Health Initiative, and where we're doing work in the schools with high school students with mental health disabilities. And a friend of mine, Eve Hill, who is the— is like a national mental health advocate in the Obama administration, she's with the Department of Justice, and she too— I'll have to tell her, she'll have to join you because she's also shacking up with bipolar disorder. But anyway, I called Eve and I said, Eve, what could I do the most? What can I do the most to help these students? And she said, out of the closet, out of shame, because there's, you know, kids with a mental health disability, they know something's different. Just as in your book, you talked about these things that happened to you, that they know something is different, but they don't want to tell their parents that something is different. They don't tell anyone. So she said, shame, you've got to deal with the shame. And that's when I started the #NotAshamed campaign. And it is a national campaign. And what we're doing is asking everyone, so everyone listening to the show, including you, Rachel, go to benderleadership.org. It'll tell you how to do this, but it's a 15-second, um, 15-second video with your smartphone, you know, just saying hi. This is my name. This is where— this is what I do. And I'm living with bipolar disorder, not ashamed. So we're trying to, you know, we now have people in Congress, we have celebrities. Oh, yeah. Ty Herndon in The Country Star. He's also shacking up with bipolar disorder. You have to listen to that show. But anyway, he did one of these videos. And high school students. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I'm trying to— hey, not ashamed. You know, I'm not going to go live in a corner. Just as you said, yes, you live with this, but it's not you. So I would encourage everyone listening, BenderLeadership.org, be part of the Not Ashamed campaign, #NotAshamed. But as you know, with your academic background and everything you've done in your life, you know that right now we have a major epidemic with high school students with mental health issues and suicide. And what I'm trying to do, what we're doing at the Academy, which is Joyce Bender Consulting Services, everyone knows, is my for-profit company that focuses on the employment of people with disabilities, and we work across the country with corporations, the federal government. But the Bender Leadership Academy is our not-for-profit that actually, Rachel, I started doing this Bender Leadership Academy over 20 years ago. As a volunteer, and then it started to take off so much that in 2018, you know, it is now a not-for-profit. But why do you think this is? I mean, why do you think there's this huge acceleration in suicide?

I think that's a really good question. I think a lot of people are asking themselves that. And whether they are, you know, family members, friends, professionals, and healthcare educators, really, how can we protect our kids, our children, our young people? And I talk about this a lot with my students. You know, psychiatric disabilities are the most prevalent disabilities, and yet they do not have a ton of traction. They do not have a lot of conversation. And one of the things, honestly, that I tell my students that I think is a really important part of understanding mental illness and really just understanding disability and difference is really looking at what you said. This idea that people have a lot of shame. They do not want to ask for help. You know, I think when you articulate that you are struggling with something, there is always this is concerned that someone is going to judge you or blame you. And I remember when I first wrote my book and it was kind of put out into the universe, somebody wrote back to me and said the most beautiful words in every language are, "You are not alone." And I love that because I think that speaks volumes to the fact that, yes, disability, mental illness is isolating, but, you know, We built the stigma, we can break the stigma. We can make things better. And when I talk to my students about this, one of the main aspects of the conversation around mental health is this idea that we are all interdependent. And interdependency, like, it is the great equalizer. And interdependence is this idea— this is a quote from Corey Frazier, who is an autistic advocate in Pennsylvania, and they say, "Everything we do, we do together." And the reason that I love that is we are taught from a very early age that we need to be independent, that we have to do everything by ourselves. And if we do not, if we need help, help is a sign of weakness. You know, we are going to be lesser. And that is just, independence is like this false narrative, right? We all need help from people. We all need to reach out. And so I think when we kind of sum up independence as being this ultimate goal, it is really this damaging way to explain interpersonal dynamics. Because, again, we all rely on each other. We should not be ashamed to ask for help, and we should be there to give help when people need it. And, you know, Mr. Rogers, patron saint of Pittsburgh, we love him. And I know you are familiar. He has this quote and kind of the core theme. He says, "Look for the helpers." And, you know, I mean, that quote originally was geared towards young children and this idea of, you know, looking at people who can help you, who can help you process things. But I still think there is relevance in the community at large. This idea it is OK to ask for help. But I like to add like, "Yes, you want to look for the helpers and you want to be a helper." And so, I think honestly the most important part is, as you are saying, with your Not Ashamed campaign is the realization that we can ask for help, we can give help, and that is a beautiful thing. I mean, that is what makes us human is the fact that we have these relationships. And so, when I talk to my students about it, they really walk away with this set— they move away with this sense of, "I am not in this alone. I can rely on other people when I need it." And in the same vein, they can rely on me. We can help each other. And that is how we are going to be safe. That is how we are going to protect ourselves, protect our young people, and have more safe spaces and more safe conversations about mental health, which As you know, is a really serious issue in our country right now. And globally, as well. Yeah.

Just this morning on MSNBC Morning Joe, the Surgeon General said that he wanted nationally— he spoke Paris to know that social media Is Dangerous. And one of the things he talked about was, you know, suicidal ideation. But you know what, when you were talking, when you were talking, think about it. If you only are relying on social media, you're not connecting with the community. You're not able to reach out. You're isolating yourself. You're not talking to people, live people. And until you're talking to people like Rachel or different people, you know, we all need each other. Just what you said. Yeah. And by the way, I love Mr.— we love Mr. Rogers. She's right. He's a patron saint here in Pittsburgh. And may I say, he belongs to us. I just want to point that out also. Very, very true. Yeah, by the way, with those hashtag #NotAshamed videos, if you don't have a mental health disability, that doesn't matter because then you get on and you say, "Hi, I'm Joyce Bender and I support high school students and middle-aged students, I mean middle school students living with mental health disabilities." not ashamed. Doesn't matter, you know, doesn't matter either way. Okay, and we'll be looking for you, Rachel. We'll be looking for that great video. Awesome. Well, it's time for one of my favorite parts of the show, What's Going On at Bender? So Scott Hammerstrom is the leader running the show at the Bender Leadership Academy. So Scott, what do you have for us today?

Well, thank you so much, Joyce Bender and Rachel Nelson. It's nice to talk to you again, and what a great show. And while I heard that you were talking about the Mary Brocker Mental Health Initiative and the Not a Shame, so I wanted to focus on that. So as you know, we help students with disabilities get them ready for the world of work. But a couple years ago, we added to our programs, to our curriculum, part of the Mary Brocker Mental Health Initiative to teach healthy mind habits to our students. So we brought in like a mental fitness training so we can become empowered to talk about mental health and engage in healthy mind habits that build skills in self-compassion, coping, and resiliency. We also focus on mental health advocacy, so understanding what it means to be an advocate and learn about the current civil rights issues for people with mental health disabilities, among other things. And we have this big campaign called the Not Ashamed campaign, and what we're trying to do is reduce stigma around mental health disabilities. We're trying to empower youth with mental health disabilities people with disabilities to take pride in who they are and create a community of allies dedicated to ending myths around mental health disabilities and also celebrate the intersectionality of the lived experience and mental health disabilities. So we've, we started this program or this campaign probably over a year ago, and we got, as you mentioned, Joyce Bender, we have over 60 videos from all different types of people from country music stars to NFL players to students with disabilities, educators, members of Congress, and media. But we're looking for more people to do this video. And if you go to our website, BenderLeadership.org, and go under "For Students," and then you'll see the "Not Ashamed," and there's information about how to do a Not Ashamed video. And all we're asking people to do, you can get on your cell phone and do a 15- to 20-second video. If you have a mental health disability, you just say, "Hi, I'm Scott Hammerstrom. I have a mental health disability and I am not ashamed." Or become an ally. If you know somebody who has a mental health disability, be an advocate for them and support them on the video. And then we are trying to get these videos out there on social media, on our website, just to end that stigma for mental health disabilities. So thank you so much, Rachel, for talking about this topic and Joyce. It is very, very important. And Joyce, as you know, being in these classes with our students, just about 75% of our students have been bullied. They, a lot of them have mental health disabilities, and it has drastically increased in the last 3 years, especially because of COVID and being home and the isolation. So this is so important about this topic. And so thank you both for discussing this. And the other thing is we are going to be having our our second annual Mary Brooker Memorial Golf Outing. It's going to be in Pittsburgh. It's going to be Saturday, August 13th. And the proceeds from this great event is going to benefit the Mary Brooker Mental Health Initiative. So if there's anybody who wants to be a sponsor, to donate, to golf, please let us know. You can go to our website. Or email me at shammerstrom@benderleadership.org.

Okay. If I could just say something real quick, just because hearing about the work you guys have been doing is so empowering as someone who, when I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, I was told that I would never go to college. I was told I would struggle to have a job. And this kind of campaign is so powerful because, I mean, it is hard to believe in yourself when no one believes in you, or if you feel that way. So, having this movement to say, "Hey, there should not be shame there. This is not something that makes you less than, that makes you, you know, not worthy of having your own life." And so, I hear this and I just think, Wow, I wish 15-year-old Rachel had exposure to this kind of positive energy and not the fact that as soon as my diagnosis became part of the conversation, it really became who I was and Rachel was erased. And movements like this are bringing people forward first.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we noticed that in our class, Rachel, like from class 1 to class the lack of confidence that our students have. And that's what we focus on, is try to build up that confidence each and every class, because they have self-doubt. And absolutely, I totally agree with that.

Well, that's what we're working on changing. And Scott, thanks for calling in. We'll keep on keeping on there.

Thank you so much, Joyce. Thank you, Rachel. Enjoy the rest of your afternoon.

Thanks, guys.

As you said, Rachel, you know, I focus on the competitive employment of Americans with disabilities, although I also travel around the world with the State Department, you know, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Panama, you know, I— this year I'm going to Brazil, but I go for a week with the State Department teaching about quality of life. Oh my God, I'll never forget this. I'll never forget in Indonesia there was one single hospital for people with psychiatric disabilities. Yeah, in the— let me think which one that was now that I think— Valley. So anyway, you know what they did? They shut it down to turn it into a hotel.

Wow.

Oh my.

And I had people hearing me speak, and I'm sorry, it maybe it was, I can't remember now, could have been Sumatra, but it was in Indonesia. And I had a person hearing me speak that said, "What am I going to do? What will I do?" In many of the countries, if you have, you know, a mental health psychiatric disability, you're done. No hope. Now, here in the United States, that people with mental health disabilities are in fact have the highest unemployment of disabilities. It is absolutely— there's where the shame should be. That's shameful.

That's shameful.

Yeah. And people are, whether you have PTSD, As you said, anorexia, depression, bipolar disorder, I don't care what it is. Oh, you know, people are completely discriminated against. So that's why when I go speak at a company and they say, "Oh, Joyce Bender, we're so glad you're here. We want to start hiring people with disabilities." I say, "Oh, but you already have." They have depression, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, epilepsy, MS, diabetes, cancer. I mean, I could go on and on. Non-apparent disabilities, it's just they aren't telling you.

Right.

And they won't tell you. You know, I mean, you're not even hiring people. If I don't even see anyone being hired with a disability, I get the point. So I'm not going to tell anyone. I have a disability, and these are the things we're fighting against. But anyway, Rachel, over the past few years, what are you the proudest of?

That is an excellent question. What am I proudest of? Yeah, I think in my journey looking back, I've kind of had these great milestones to celebrate— publishing a book, getting a master's degree and then a doctoral degree. I have 5 pets, so adopting all 5 of my pets has been a really wonderful thing, you know, my life. Very proud pet mama. But I, you know, as I was kind of thinking about this, I think the thing I am most proudest of is reclaiming the life that was supposed to be mine. You know, really early on when I was 15, I started experiencing bipolar disorder. And I thought that was going to be it, that I was summed up by my illness. And I think I'm really proud. I've worked really hard to realize that I deserve to be happy and I have worth. And my legacy is not about sickness, it's about strength. And it's taken a lot to get there. And whenever I'm signing my book for somebody, I always write "therapy works" with lots of exclamation points because I think one of the best ways that you can help yourself is to learn to share your story.

I agree with you. Well, let me ask you, in closing, what message do you have for our listeners?

I think the message that I have for your listeners is, again, this idea that mental illness does not have to be isolating. That we have the power to make these kinds of experiences things that we actually talk about. And honestly, I think it begins with being safe and asking questions. One of my, one of my assignments, the first assignment I give my students in my classes is called Narratives Are Us. And what it is, is they talk to someone with a disability, they just have this moment of, "Hey, I want to know about you, about what you have struggled with, what you have overcome." And all of a sudden, these conversations start happening and keep happening because we are just learning how to include each other and really how to hold each other with compassion and kindness. And so, I think one, you can tell this interview I love to talk, but I think one of the messages that I wanna give is that we need to learn how to listen and we need to learn how to open our hearts because when we listen and we have empathy, stigma, it doesn't stand a chance.

Amen to all of that. Well, Rachel, it has been so great to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for joining us.

Oh, thank you, Joyce. This is really wonderful, and I just appreciate the opportunity to talk about something that we both are really passionate about, and it's something that's really, really important.

Well, we end every show with a quote. Here it is: Black robs you of light just as depression leaves you in the dark. The best story is told in color, I fight to leave Black behind, said Dr. Rachel Callum Whitman. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. And in the words of Mary Brocker, choose joy.

Voice America would like to Thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.