Rebecca Williford: Attorney/National Disability Community Leader

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hello everyone, I hope you had a great holiday this past weekend. I know I did. I did my favorite thing the, yes, staycation, staying at home, just taking it easy, reading. So nice. But I was with friends the day before for a cookout. I hope all of you had a great holiday in the United States. Now, around the world, oh my goodness, I have so many great listeners I love all of you, you know that? From China to Australia, I always say I don't care if it's one person listening to the show, that one person can make a difference. Just like Richard Roberts and Carla in Brazil, love them both. Richard is a very close friend of mine and a great disability rights leader. Gang Yong Cho in South Korea. He is awesome. I've had the honor and pleasure of being with him at the embassy twice. Venyamin in Indonesia. Love you, Venyamin. And Japan, well, I've been with Richard more than one time. South Korea, and Japan. And I love every minute of being with him. And Panama. And guess what? I will be off in the spring to Brazil. And I, you know, I have epilepsy, as you all know. And I always say, whether you have a seizure in the United States or in Australia, it's still a seizure. So I care about everyone, and I hope you do, because brothers and sisters around the world with disabilities. I just want to say I have absolutely the very best listeners, the best, all of you. Thank you so much for following this show. And for those of you that don't know, this is the 20th anniversary of my show. And thank you, Highmark, for being a sponsor And thank you, Voice America, for just being such a great partner over the past 20 years. 20 years, 20 more to go. That's what I say. So, thank you, everyone. And Yoshiko Dart, Yoshiko, special shout out to you. You know how I love you, Yoshiko, and how I want to You know why I do this, everyone? Because what is with it, the people with disabilities, that we don't have our own history in the school systems? Minor, minor, like maybe the ADA was written this day. I mean, nothing elaborate. For example, if you go out on the streets and say, "Who is Justin Dart?" 90% of people will say, "I don't know." And yet, he was the great general of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And if you've seen a photograph of the signing with President Bush, you will see this great man in his wheelchair sitting up with the president with his famous hat on. And guess what? My disability pride tree this year The top is a replica of that same hat. So I'll never forget you, Yoshiko. And I also once again have to thank Highmark for being there for me all the time and being such a great sponsor. And I always like to have up-and-coming disability rights leaders that are making a difference. And that is why I am so excited today to have Rebecca Williford, CEO of Disability Rights Advocates and Just. By the way, I will tell you, such a nice person. Rebecca, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce. I am so honored to be here with you today. It's always a pleasure to get to spend time with you, uh, and I'm so excited to be leading DRA. DRA, where I have worked for almost 15 years now. I can't wait to, to talk with you.

Yes, and if you don't know, congratulations, if you meet Rebecca, is in a must with her because she is the new CEO. CEO DRA. What a great honor and accomplishment. And guess what, Rebecca? You're the best person for the job. So let's start by you sharing with our listeners your story. I always like my listeners around the world, you know, not to just know your title, what you say, but to know a little bit more about you, like where you grew up, went to school, went on to law school. And also, there are many people in the world, as you well know, with disabilities, but only a portion decide, "I want to be an advocate." And so I'm also interested in what made you decide to be a disability rights leader.

Thanks so much for giving me a chance to, to share some of my story, Joyce. I'm happy to start with that. So, I grew up in eastern North Carolina. I was born and raised there. And I never planned on becoming a disability rights leader, but because of my experience acquiring a disability as a teenager in the '90s, I realized that becoming a disability rights leader is exactly what I wanted to do. Throughout high school, my disability evolved, and I contended with countless medical appointments, missing lots of school, hospitalization. I went from having a non-apparent disability to being a wheelchair user due to a neurological disorder. And just as a side note, as I look back, most people didn't think of disability rights as civil rights where I was growing up at that time. And I was often the only disabled person or one of a few. And finding mentors who had similar experiences was pretty tough. But my experience of seeing how hard my parents and I had to advocate on so many fronts as I was going through this medical experience, this experience of becoming disabled, I saw the advocacy it took for my parents and me, and I saw in the hospital what my peers were going through, becoming disabled and trying to figure out how to navigate the world as a newly disabled person. So, all of that exposed me to a completely new universe. Before that time, I had been a year-round competitive swimmer. So it was a real, real, real big change for me. And it was a completely, completely new universe, and one where so much advocacy for the most basic rights was desperately needed. And this experience, you know, as a teenager really ignited something in me. And I went on to college at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. And during that time, I thought a lot about everything that I had experienced. I couldn't stop thinking about all that I had been exposed to and all that needed to happen in society to level the playing field for people with different kinds of disabilities. And I, I thought a lot about different ways that I might become a part of that advocacy. And that was also the time in my life where I was beginning to fully embrace disability as part of my identity that I was really proud of. And that, that was really important for me. I was doing youth organizing in North Carolina with Stacy Milburn as I began to explore and learn about the disability community that I had joined. And for any listeners who aren't familiar with Stacey, she was an incredible disability rights advocate. She passed away far too early in 2020, but she was one of the founders of the disability justice movement in this country. And Stacey and I both grew up in North Carolina, and we eventually moved to the San Francisco Bay Area around the same time. Stacy was born with her disability, and she also used a wheelchair. She already knew so many of the ropes, and she began to connect me with other disability community leaders. And Stacy and I organized the first-ever North Carolina Youth Leadership Conference. We brought together hundreds of disabled youth from across the state to really create, for the first time, a space where they could learn about the disability rights movement. They could learn about how to get access to opportunities and services that they needed to be independent when they grew up. And just really empowering the youth of the state was a huge focus, showing them the independence that was available to them.

Wow. You know, I have to ask you a question. I must ask you. Did people change at school the way they interacted with you as your disability intensified?

Yes, very much. Great question, and also highlights, highlights something that I think is really important. When my disability wasn't apparent, So, the moment I began using a wheelchair, I got so much sympathy. I got so much help. You know, the sort of the year before that when I was really tired and it was really hard to walk around and I would stumble and I would need help, people were not— people were not very accommodating. You know, people didn't treat me very well. So it was a huge, huge change, and I think that's one big, you know, attitudes are such a barrier. I think it's really important that, you know, we as a society evolve to be more understanding of people with non-apparent disabilities.

Right. And then As you went on, well, how in general do people at large, people you would just meet, how did they react to you in your wheelchair?

So, you know, initially there was a lot of pity, and I was going through the experience which is not the reaction we hope for, but I think it is the way a lot of folks respond. You know, people who haven't been exposed to the disability rights movement, people who haven't been exposed to disability leaders. You know, we don't have the greatest representation in the media of how wonderful and full a life with a disability can be. And I think for For the first few years, I very much thought of it as a medical issue. But then once I started to meet people like Stacey, people who were in the disability rights movement, it became very clear to me that disability was something to be really proud of and that there was a whole movement and a whole universe to embrace. And that is— And I really can't give enough credit to all the folks in the community who helped me see that and helped me sort of see the path forward, which is a really incredible and an amazing one. I mean, you probably think about this too, Joyce, all the folks that you met in life that you probably wouldn't have met if you didn't have a disability. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Me too. I agree with you. That's why I always say I'm living with epilepsy and I'm not ashamed I'm living with epilepsy. So we're together on that. So why law school? Why did you feel that would be important?

All right. So why law school? So I, as I became more and more involved in the disability community, I met more people people with disabilities. I, you know, started out I was just— just knew other people with mobility disabilities, but then as I was doing work in the community, I met people with all types of disabilities and said, "Wow, this is a huge movement. This is such a diverse community." And I realized that there was a huge range of advocacy that needed to be done and that there was a whole lot of good that needed to be put into this segment of society of people with disabilities. And I started to learn as I met other disabled people, I started to learn about some of the ways that lawyers were helping people, especially in the education context and how critical that was. So, for example, in that phase of life, so many disabled people were trying to get testing— standardized testing accommodations. All the standardized tests that, you know, that people take to advance educational and professional goals. And some— a lot of folks weren't able to get the accommodations that they needed for those tests. Some of those folks were finding lawyers that were helping them. Some of those folks needed lawyers, but they could not afford one, and they could not find somebody that could help them pro bono. And so, I realized this huge— so I realized the pivotal role that lawyers played, and I realized that legal action really does lead to empowerment, enforcing rights. And I wanted to be a part of that work that was moving the ball forward. And I think You know, I think, especially now at DRA, I think a lot about enforcing the laws, you know, enforcing the laws that are on the books is everything. The ADA is such a powerful, powerful law. When Congress passed the ADA, it was a bipartisan recognition that people with disabilities in this country have a really robust set of rights and that discrimination against people with disabilities was so bad that we needed a federal statute on the books to recognize and to provide for a way to enforce those rights. And in so many spheres of society, public and private entities, employment, transportation, technology. So, I, you know, I really loved, you know, enforcing the laws. I love the concept of impact litigation. And its potential to change the fabric of society. I think advocacy and policy are incredibly important, but those two pillars do need this third pillar of litigation to bring about the full, full picture of systemic change. And I realize that impact litigation is the only way to fix a lot of the systemic barriers, that are holding back people with disabilities. You know, some entities will do the right thing on their own, and we love that. But a lot of entities need that nudge. They might need the pressure of a lawsuit. Carrots don't always work, and sticks can be really important. They're a really important tool in the tool belt. And so that's, you know, what I kind of love about impact litigation. And I think, so stepping back from that, one other thought about why law school is that I think not nearly enough people with disabilities are becoming lawyers, and that's a real— it's a real gap in the profession. And there are a lot of reasons why. There's a lot of, a lot of discrimination in the pipeline. It's like, it's, it's hard to get hard to get. They don't make the path easy. But there's also not nearly enough disabled lawyers that are practicing disability rights law, and that's really, really what I wanted to do. Nothing about us without us is really important to me, and here's why. I've got lived experience as a disabled attorney, and that, that changes my approach.. And that's a really important perspective to have, especially given that the disability community has such a bad history of decisions being made for them. I think it's really important to have a critical mass of disabled lawyers. And so, I'm always very excited to mentor law students with disabilities and to welcome, you know, new lawyers with disabilities. And as a profession, I try to make that a priority because So many folks did that for me, and I wouldn't have made it to where I am without that.

Well, oh, so, you know, it's amazing, isn't it, that it isn't that long ago, and sadly, that is still ongoing at places that people are fighting for equity. So, Rebecca, how did you first meet DRA? Also, what is DRA? What is Disability Rights Advocates? Like, Where are you located and how large are you?

Great. Okay. I'll start with the who is DRA and then I will tell you the story of how I met DRA. So, DRA is the legal arm of the disability rights movement. We are a 30-person nonprofit legal center. We have offices in Berkeley, Chicago, and New York City. But we do cases nationwide. And over the years, we've done cases from Hawai'i to Alaska to Boston, and many points in between. We team up with local counsel when we are not operating in one of our home office-based states. So we do a lot of cases out of California, New York, and Illinois. But also in recent years, we've expanded to other areas of the country. Where there has not been as much impact litigation. And when we talk about impact litigation, those are often class action cases or cases where we're representing an individual, but the goal is to change a policy or make an entire transportation or education system accessible. So, we get these really transformative results that really do transformed the fabric of American society in all key areas of life. So everything from healthcare to emergency preparedness to prisons, education, employment, transportation, you name it, DRA has made it more accessible for people with disabilities. And our work really, you know, it never gets boring because society is constantly changing, and there's so many spheres of society that we remain vigilant to, to be sure that as new technologies come online, they remain accessible to people with disabilities. You know, it's so much easier to bake it in from the beginning. So that's, that's, that's who we are as DRA, and I love the story of how I met DRA and The story of how I met DRA was during law school. So the first time I learned about DRA was actually in my law school casebook, in my textbook. I was reading about a DRA case. And I said, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing work. I want to know the lawyers who brought this case. And I want to be a part of it." So also, so that, that was probably the first way. Also, during law school, I was part of a group of law students with disabilities, and we were for the first time trying to create a national organization. We desperately needed community, and we needed allies. We needed thought partners for how to figure out things like bar exam accommodations. And so we were organizing the National Association of Law Students with Disabilities. And as part of that, we were looking for attorneys with disabilities who could be our mentors. And it was really important for me, again, nothing about us without us, to work for a disabled attorney who was doing disability rights work. And this was the time in my life when I worked for Christine Griffin when she was a commissioner at the EEOC. I, I'll never forget my time working for Chris Griffin when I was in law school. I had an absolute blast working in her office with her team. She took me under her wing. She taught me how to be an effective advocate and how to do really excellent legal work. She took me to events. She taught me how to be a straight shooter and tell the other side exactly what they needed to hear. So I— that was, you know, one summer during law school I worked, worked for Chris Griffin, and the next summer I came to DRA and I worked for Larry Paradis, our late co-founder, and he was also a disabled attorney. He was a pioneer and a visionary and committed to using the law in novel ways to bring about systemic change that would move the ball forward for people with disabilities. And, you know, his mantra was No defendant is too big, even when it feels like an uphill battle, even when the case is really hard. Like, we have to push for equality. And I loved that, and I was hooked. So that summer job turned into my fellowship, which was my— at DRA, which was my first job out of law school. So, and the rest is history. That's how I met DRA.

Wow, you know what, you can't believe how many— of course, Chris works with us in partnership with us, but you cannot believe how many people I meet that they were an intern to Chris Griffin. I mean, it's unbelievable. I mean, disability rights leaders like yourself or Ari Ne'eman or people I met at the Partners for Youth with Disabilities, it's Unbelievable. It really is. Well, I'm so glad that she could be someone that was, you know, a mentor to you and helped you so much. So, if you had to list for me the key services at DRA, what would they be?

So, our superpower is, is high-impact litigation and bringing that to parts of the country that don't have that type of legal representation that DRA offers. So, uh, we're doing more in this intersectional and traditionally underrepresented segments of the disability community. We're doing cases representing those, those groups, and we're also working really hard to listen to the needs of the disability community. So in my first 100 days As CEO, I spent time in the places where we have offices, so New York, Chicago, and of course in Berkeley. And I met with disability community members, and I'm proud to say that we are focused on doing the work that is most urgent and most important to the disability community right now, and that work includes includes impact litigation to move forward on many fronts, including voting rights, affordable accessible housing, transportation. We're looking at access to air travel. We're looking at access to jury duty. And we're looking at whatever else comes down the pike. Again, as COVID reminded us that people with disabilities are the first to be left behind. And we have to stay vigilant to the, the new ways that people with disabilities might be excluded in a rapidly evolving world and stay vigilant to the ways that we can use the law to ensure that we protect the rights of people with disabilities in those, in those situations. And sometimes, you know, people say, "So what are, what are the actual sort of results of impact litigation?" And I could go on forever, but I will share a few examples. You know, because of this litigation, colleges across the country are starting to provide accommodations to students with mental health disabilities. Rather than telling them they just have to leave school because of their disability. Because of this litigation, healthcare providers are doing a better job providing interpreters to deaf people so that they can have the effective communication they need and that the law requires. Cities are required to revamp their emergency preparedness plans so that they don't leave disabled people left behind in emergencies and disasters. Juvenile detention facilities are doing a better job providing special ed and support to youth with disabilities rather than putting them in solitary confinement. And the list goes on, on and on. But our litigation, everything starts with a letter. And sometimes, you know, entities are, you know, we send them a letter. We let them know about the barriers our client experienced. And sometimes entities will come to the table, and they will want to, you know, work out an agreement, work out a plan to fix, you know, whatever the barrier is. But often, you know, they don't do that. That's not their response. And so, we do end up filing a lawsuit. And going through the litigation process, and in the end getting, getting a result that is, you know, a precedent that, you know, that fixes the barriers and that can be precedent for, you know, other parts of the country. Yeah. Those are the services kind of in a nutshell.

Well, that's powerful. And I'll tell you what, we're ready on the half hour for our news break with Perry Jude Radesik, and who's been doing the news for over 5 years now. And boy, she knows a lot about this. She knows a lot about what you're talking about. Perry, welcome to the show.

Joyce Bender, thanks for having me, and it's a great show this morning. I'm sorry, yeah, this morning. On the West Coast, this afternoon on the East Coast.

So, Joyce Bender.

Well, what do you have for us today, Perry?

Yeah, I want to talk about the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. We often celebrate the anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. In fact, we just did that again in July. We often commemorate it every year. But this year we want to commemorate and take a moment to commemorate the anniversary of another landmark piece of legislation. September marks the 50th anniversary of the passage of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. Now, the Department of Labor, the Department of Education, Housing and Urban Development have already established The themes for this year's anniversary, if you're following labor and education, the theme of the anniversary for them is Advancing Access and Equity: Then, Now, and Next. Housing and Urban Development, again, has the similar theme, Past, Present, and Future of Disability Rights in Housing as it relates to the Rehabilitation Act at 50. So, many of us know the Rehab Act of 1973 and its subsequent amendments were major milestones in the advancement of access and equity for disabled people. The act did so many things. It established the Rehabilitation Services Administration, the Access Board, digital access, prohibited discrimination based on disability in programs, conducted by the federal government, in programs that receive federal funding, in federal employment, and in the employment of people who receive— whose organizations receive federal funding. So it's very expansive. And here at Advocacy Matters, we know that advocacy from the disabled community gave us the Rehabilitation Act of 1973,, and the regulations that followed. So this year, our community and federal agencies are marking the 50th anniversary with blogs and podcasts and webinars. And you can go to, right now, disabilityrightsPA.org for a list of some of the webinars that are happening this month from the U.S. Department of Labor, Housing and Urban Development, the Department of Education, That's again, go to disabilityrightspa.org, click on today's advocacy matters segment to get a copy of the original legislation and some of the webinars that are happening this month to commemorate Joyce Bender, the 50th anniversary of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

That is so awesome. Now, Perry, if they would just enforce that when it comes to employment, it would be so great. Well, it's employment, certainly access.

Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, you're right, Joyce Bender.

As I told Tony Qualo, okay, let's just see some large companies, uh, where it's enforced, and that would make all the difference. But on the other hand, Many great things did come out of this, and we should celebrate it. So, if we go to disabilityrightsPA.org and then go to Advocacy Matters, can we find this?

Absolutely.

It's up on our website right now, Joyce, on the homepage.

Okay, great. All right. Well, thank you so much for calling in, Perry. You are such a great leader. Thank you. We look forward to talking to you next week.

Thank you.

Take care.

Bye-bye. Disability Rights PA, just what we're talking about, right? You know, fighting the fight, just what we are talking about. Yeah, and speaking of that, I have a question. I read how DRA was involved in that lawsuit for people with disabilities the settlement in Philadelphia about installing curbs. Would you mind talking about that for our listeners, just to show them the great things you can do?

Absolutely. So, making sidewalks accessible and installing curb cuts at intersections is so important and has been a DRA priority since the beginning, 30 years ago. So, back in 2004, we brought a case against the City of Sacramento that set a nationwide precedent requiring cities to make their public sidewalks accessible to people with mobility and vision disabilities. And Sacramento was just the beginning. As your listeners know, inaccessible sidewalks are a problem in so many cities throughout the country, and there's— I can't Think of how many times just trying to get down the street, you know, you'll go down the street, run into an intersection with no curb cuts, have to backtrack, and waste time, or you have to make the choice if you're going to try to get out in traffic to get around the— which is not safe. So, it puts folks in a very difficult position. Sacramento was just the beginning, and the precedent that we got in that case has helped us in cases against other cities. And I'm so proud of our recent work in Philadelphia. So, in that case, DRA represents some organizations and individuals who are longtime advocates and residents for accessible pedestrian sidewalks. In Philadelphia. And as a result of the litigation, we got a settlement agreement that the City of Philadelphia will install 10,000 ramps. They will install or fix 10,000 ramps over 15 years. And this means that, you know, where the curb ramps are missing or where they're not compliant, The city will, will make them so, and there will— they're going to, you know, there's a plan to meet milestones at various periods throughout the monitoring period. But the city is going to also maintain curb ramps and make sure that they are operable over the course of the settlement period. And, you know, during the settlement period, So these cases aren't over once we, you know, get a ruling from a court or get a settlement agreement. Part of impact litigation means that as lawyers, we are monitoring the implementation of the agreement or the court order to make sure that, you know, what's been agreed upon or what's been ordered to happen actually happens and that the access gets provided. Because that is absolutely critical. So we will be doing that in this case, as we do in all of our cases, to make sure that that work happens and that we have safe and accessible sidewalks throughout the city of Philadelphia. So we're so excited to have this result and so excited for the remedy to be getting underway.

Yeah, I think, I just think it is so awesome. In case you weren't hearing that clear enough, that was 10,000. 10,000. 10,000. I mean, that is absolutely remarkable. Absolutely. Well, hey, we've got a caller on the line, and I know this person is calling in about some great thing coming up here in Pittsburgh. Alex, are you on the line?

I am, Joyce. How are you doing?

I'm good. How are you today, Alex?

I'm good, I'm good. Thank you for having me.

Yes, well, what news do you have for us, Alex?

So on September 13th, we have a great event of gathering together all the different organizations that We have in Pittsburgh the feeling, working, and supporting the disability initiative in Pittsburgh. The event is 412AbilityTech event, and it will be held in the Suburban General in Bellevue. We realize that in Pittsburgh we have huge amount of different organizations, universities, businesses, and foundations that are supporting the disability field initiatives. So 412AbilityTech is a place where all of the organizations can meet together to share ideas, to come and create new opportunities and support people with disabilities, creating new products, creating new opportunities. So we're happy to have professionals and people that interested in this field to join us.

Yes, and it is a great thing. I want to just tell you what this is all about. As Alex said, uh, Jeffrey Cohen, Dr. Cohen, wants to do whatever and everything he can to increase employment opportunities. And so he has these incubators at Suburban General doing everything from helping homeless people be working in a cafeteria to manufacturing and to Tesla, which is Alex's organization company, making accessible wheelchairs, for example, for toddlers, and they are awesome, just awesome. So this is really a great thing that you, you should go to, and if you're in Pittsburgh, and if you're not in Pittsburgh, you should still get involved. If you send me an email, jbender@benderconsult.com, I would be happy to help you out. And I will be speaking at this event in Pittsburgh, and I so look forward to it. This is such a great cause, such a great organization. I'm working with Karen from the Buncher Foundation, and the two of us were like two fireballs. So, Alex, thank you so much for calling in.

Thank you, Joyce, and we're looking forward to your speak on the event.

All right, happy to be there.

Thank you, Susan.

You're, you're welcome, you're welcome. So Rebecca, we're working here, as you know, I'm headquartered in Pittsburgh but work across the United States finding employment for people with disabilities, and my question is, is that what you see as one of the biggest obstacles that people with disabilities have to endure.

Yes, I think it is absolutely one of the biggest obstacles, you know, finding, you know, getting through education, finding employment. I love the work that Bender does to help disabled people find employment. It's so critical. And that was, you know, one thing I learned, you know, when I worked worked with Chris at the EEOC is just the right to employment and the right to have accommodations for your employment is just so critical in this country. I think that's one of the biggest obstacles people with disabilities face. There's a few others that I see. One is just sort of the visibility of what disability rights is. I think The disability rights movement is still a young movement, and not everyone recognizes disability rights as a social justice and human rights issue. Not everyone understands how all-encompassing the disability community is and all of the other marginalized communities that the disability community encompasses and intersects with. And we, you know, disabled people need visibility and disability rights needs to be recognized more broadly as a social justice and human rights issue. We need more foundations and government entities and corporations to invest in disability rights and to bring about that equity and full participation in society. So, I think that's one. And then the other big one The other big obstacle is ableism. I shouldn't be shocked, but I still am every day. You know, even at this point in my career, not a day goes by that I don't experience ableism. I've been told by two different courts when I was called for jury duty that I was too disabled to serve on the jury. And I made really sure they understood that I'm an attorney that litigates cases and that has successfully taken a case to trial. And they said, "Nope, you're too disabled for a jury." I also rely a lot on public transit, taxis, and rideshares, and drivers will often refuse to take me where I need to go because of my wheelchair. Or they say, "Do you need to go to a hospital? You're in a wheelchair." So that attitude that disabled people don't belong on juries, or that if they're leaving home, it must be for a medical appointment or to see a doctor, is a huge, huge barrier to, you know, to really achieving full equality. And I think sort of the, you know, the lack of representation of people with disabilities you know, in the media in a respectful and real way is also a huge obstacle and one where we have got a long way to go.

You know what? It is funny you— well, it is not funny. It is interesting you would be talking about this because as a person of faith, I was reading this book, where is it here, oh, here it is, by Amy Kenny, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request. And she's like a scholar. I mean, she has all of this civil rights history, you know, in, in the book. It's, she's just brilliant. Anyway, she's talking about how people will go up to her. She uses a cane. Which she has named the cane, Eileen. But she'll be somewhere like church. She's talking about at church, for example, when people will say, "Don't worry, when you go to heaven, you'll be able to run." You know, things like that. Well, what does that mean? That means you feel It is terrible the way I am right now. And that is where that ableism comes into play. I mean, in so many places, even in church. But it is true that just, you know, it is hard to believe. When I hear you say what happened to you, it is hard for me to believe that that has happened. You know, you cannot be on the jury. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So, Rebecca, how can our listeners help you?

Oh, thank you so much for asking, Joyce Bender. So, there's a few ways that listeners can help. So, number one, folks can always visit our website to learn more about our work. Our website is www.dralegal.org. And so this year, I mentioned, we are celebrating our 30th anniversary. So we were founded just 3 years after the ADA was passed when our founders saw the need for, you know, impact litigation to enforce the ADA in a systemic way. So, we're turning 30, and we are celebrating this year on November 9th. And we're celebrating in a big, big way that will be accessible to all. So, we are going to hold a bicoastal in-person celebration that will also be livestreamed. So, we will have our MCs in New York and in San Francisco at in-person events And we will also be live streamed, and the MCs will be throwing the mic back and forth to each other. It will feel like New Year's Eve, but a celebration of disability rights, and a little earlier. We're not going to stay up until midnight, but they will be celebrating our work. And the donor— we've never done an event like this before, so we're really excited. And, you know, our work is now bicoastal, and so it's really important that our 30th anniversary reflects that. And it's also important that it's, you know, accessible to community members who can't travel or who can't be present in person. So, that's why we're live streaming. You know, donors also play a critical role in allowing DRA to continue being this legal arm of the disability rights movement. So, folks who are able to sponsor or purchase tickets are welcome to do that if they can. So, you know, hopefully folks can come to the gala in whatever way they can. You can also sign up for our email newsletter. Our email newsletter will keep you posted on all the new cases that we are filing or resolving. And it's just a way to stay up to date on exciting developments. And also, tell other people about our work. One, I know that litigation for folks— for many folks is sort of mysterious, or it could feel intimidating and unfamiliar. But It is a really important tool, and we are sort of with our clients every step of the way explaining the process. And it's a really important— really important tool to solve a lot of critical problems that we're facing as a disability community. And then also just tell us about any systemic problems that you think the RA should be looking at. You know, if you're looking at access to transportation systems, education systems, healthcare systems, and, you know, people with the same disabilities are being excluded for the same reasons, I think that's really— those are— we're always happy to talk to folks about those. Those issues. So we're happy to talk further on that anytime.

Well, that is awesome. And tell us again when the gala is.

November 9th.

And the way you're talking, I'm assuming that it is accessible, virtual.

Yes. So, it will be in-person and virtual. So, there will be options. We'll be in-person in New York, in-person in San Francisco, and livestreamed virtual.

Oh, that is awesome. Well, how does someone get involved? Like, do they go to your website? And if so, what is it?

Yes. So, you can go to our website at www.dralegal.org. And then from there, there's a 30th anniversary gala link that you can click on. So it's— the more specific URL is dralegal.org/30th-anniversary-gala.

All right. Well, I hope all of you check that out. And before we end the show today, first, thank you so much, Rebecca, for joining us.

Thank you so much, Joyce Bender, for having me, and congratulations on your 20th anniversary. It's such an honor to be a part of the show that you've been doing such an amazing job on. It's so important for the community what you do, and I'm glad to be a part of it.

Oh, thank you so much. And I just want to say, remember, if you know someone and you want them to hear the show, just go on demand to Spotify, Apple, voiceamerica.com, benderconsult.com, and you can hear any of the shows. Just go to Spotify podcast and you'll see Disability Matters with Joyce Bender, and we'll be able to share this show with someone else. Well, listeners, what's happening at Bender? Here's what's happening. We have a lot of openings for people at an executive level in IT and in other areas. And I love that. You know why? I'm tired of people with disabilities being underpaid. So if you are looking for an opportunity or you know someone that is, remember JoyceBenderConsult.com. And with that, it's time to end the show. I want to start by a quote, and that quote is from Tony Coelho. And Tony Coelho says, "Give us the right to be fired." Do you know what that means? That means just give us an opportunity. Just give us an opportunity. And in the words of Mary Brooker, when you go out today, remember to choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet Talk Radio. VoiceAmerica.com.