Shaunda McDill: Advocate for Actors with Disabilities in Theater

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. To everyone in the United States and around the world, I have so many great listeners in this country.

Oh my goodness.

You know, this is my 21st year on Voice America. How is that possible? And you know, and Highmark, by the way, is the lead sponsor. Thank you so much, Highmark. But you know what? I just can't believe it. You are all so awesome. Thank you. Thank you. If you're listening, hey, spread the news. We got to get this news out about people with disabilities because, well, there are very few places to go to get that news. So make sure you tell other people about this show. And then we go around the world. Richard Roberts from the State Department right in Brazil. Richard, you are so awesome. You know I love you. Richard is at the State Department with the embassy, and I'll be going there this year. Here is what wonderful thing the State Department does. If people go to an embassy and they request an expert on the employment of people with disabilities, the State Department frequently calls me. So I've been to Panama, South Korea, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Japan, and I have great listeners from China to Australia. I mean it, thank you so much for your dedication. Remember what I say, even if you're that one person in Saudi Arabia, one person, can make a difference, right? Spread the news to other people. One person can make a difference. Hello, Yoshiko Dart! Shout out to one of my favorite people in the world. And in case you wonder, why do I do this? Because Yoshiko is the wife of the late, great Justin Dart. Such a great man that did so much for this country and the disability community, and yet we sometimes forget that. We forget our own history. You know why we forget it? Because it's not in school. We need to do something about that. But that's why Yoshiko I will always give you this shout out to remind everyone about Justin. And you, who you're so modest, you don't want to admit you too are a disability rights leader, but you are, Yoshiko, and you know I love you. So today we are with someone I'm so excited to have her on the show. She is the managing director at the Pittsburgh Public Theater, Shonda McDeal, who I call my niece. And Shonda, it is wonderful to have you as a guest on the show today.

Thank you for having me, Aunt Joyce. Um, it is an honor to be with you.

Well, the feeling is mutual. Why don't we start with your background? I know we already have a caller on the line, but we will take that caller if, Matt, you tell our caller that. Matt is my fantastic engineer. He's so good with Voice America. But Shonda, people always ask me, they'll say, oh, I love that show, but I wish I knew more about that person. So why don't we start with you?, and your background, you know, where you grew up, uh, where you went on for your education. And also, if you could share with our listeners how we met and who that great person is that we met through. But, you know, let's hear about you. Let's hear where you went on to school, where you grew up, uh, maybe a little bit about your family. So I'll turn it over to you.

Thank you. Well, I mean, I want to begin by saying my Aunt Denise is how we met. She was on the board of the Epilepsy Foundation with you and some other people. And when she heard I was moving to Pittsburgh, she said, "These are 3 people you have to be in touch with." And as soon as I arrived here, you invited me immediately to the Mardi Gras event that you had. At that time, it was at the Westin. And I think it was the first event I ever attended, and I met so many different people there. I mean, it was the who's who of Pittsburgh and all of the people who were surrounding an important cause. And since then, I've seen those people in many circles. So it was an important night not only to support you and someone who someone in my family held so dear, but also to be supporting an important cause and get to know other people in the city who thought that the work that you were doing was important and wanted to advance causes for inclusion and justice and things of that sort. That is how we met, Denise Pease. And I began my educational career, I guess you would say, at Dartmouth as an undergrad. I would actually go back to say my first kind of important step in education was going to Friends Academy. It's a Quaker school on Long Island. And it really was a force and the teachers there, the assistant headmistress, they were all really pivotal in terms of my— the way I valued education, in terms of seeing me and pulling out of me all the things that they saw in me that at the time I may not have even seen in myself. After Friends Academy, I ended up at Dartmouth College, and so many wonderful things were happening there while I was a student. They've always had a great performing arts center in the Hop. And while I was there, August Wilson was teaching playwriting. I was able to take a class with him. I met Augusta Bowles and Ntozake Shange, so many artists and administrators during that time. And I also was handed down the Black Underground Theater Association group, the leadership of that group. And so I was producing art as the leader of that arts group for students on campus. And then my journey after Dartmouth took me to working at some theaters in the nation, the Goodman Theatre in Chicago, Second Stage Theatre in New York as a directing fellow, and then I ended up at Yale School of Drama, now the David Geffen School of Drama, for theater management. And so I graduated from there with an MFA in theater administration.

Wow, what an education you have. So you grew up in New York then, Shonda?

I did. I grew up on Long Island, north shore of Long Island, in the communities of Roslyn and also Westbury. We used to go visit my Aunt Denise, who introduced us, in Queens often. And her— and then, you know, wanted to stay somewhat close you know, New Hampshire. So I stayed on the East Coast for college and for grad school. I'm an only child, so it was always important to me to be somewhat close to my family.

Let's move on to your background at Dartmouth and Yale. I wanted to ask you, in your opinion— now, you already told me about that Quaker high school that you went to, which I'm sure that did have an impact on you. What about Dartmouth and Yale? Do you believe your education helped form your career of thinking, and if so, in what way?

Absolutely. One, I think Dartmouth helped me because it truly was a liberal arts college. I feel as though it was really personalized. I feel as though the professors there and the way in which I was allowed to explore my interests helped me to really define where I wanted to be and the path that I wanted to take. You know, many of my classmates already knew, well, they want to be an attorney, or they want to work in government, or they want to— and so, you know, they arrived and were very specific in terms of how they, you know, what they took and the plan. And I think, you know, for me, I wasn't sure, but there were great deans on the campus, and I often kind of just took what interests, what interested me. So the environment was one where I would say learning was lifted higher than having to necessarily achieve a certain thing because you think it's right. I really do think they were engaged in us following the path that authentically was the thing that we wanted to do. At least I felt supported in that way. And so then achievement is always going to follow that because you are really moving in purpose. So I feel Dartmouth really helped me in that way. It also was a serene place. It gave me, you know, great peace to be on that campus, and I felt supported, enjoyed being around my classmates and my colleagues. And so many great people have come through that institution that I admire and look up to. So I really enjoyed my time there. And similarly Yale was just, you know, a little bit more intense. I feel like there was a— I didn't feel the level of competition that I felt at Yale at Dartmouth, but I think it was good for me at that time. I just really wanted to achieve when I got there, wanted to learn the trade of theater, wanted to be the best that I could be in the field that I had chosen. And so I felt like that was the place to be and to learn the trade of theater and to understand how to come out and produce it. And so that's, that was my experience there.

Wow, what prestigious schools you went to, Schools of Presidents. And with that, I think our caller is back. Caller, are you on the line?

I am on the line, and I am so proud to be with two of my favorite people. Um, hello, this is your Aunt Denise. I am so proud of Shonda. I am so proud of Shonda Joyce. Thank you, thank you for all that you've done to take care of my favorite niece.

Oh my, my niece also. Yeah, because this is my sister. Yeah, this is my sister.

You are my sister.

That's right, you're my sister. So I can tell everyone this story. How I know Denise is we have something in common, epilepsy. And I met her on the board of directors of the Epilepsy Foundation, and we had like the Three Musketeers, Joyce Bender, Denise Bender, and Tony Coelho. And We just became fast friends, but we served on the board and we marched in the epilepsy walk and we went to all these conferences together. And she is my sister, my close friend. I love her so much. Our niece Shonda is the star of the show today, Denise.

I know, I know. And I'm just going to be in the background because I want to— I want to— I want Shonda to talk all about what she's doing. I am so proud of her. You know, I am on this Presidential Advisory Commission for Advancing Educational Equity and Excellence for Black Americans, and Shonda is a prime example of what we're trying to do with every student to have endless possibilities. You know, her mother, her mother, her mother is my sister. She's really my cousin, but she's my sister because I'm an only child. Like Shonda, I'm an only child. But what I'm trying to do is to give every student, every young person the kind of opportunities that Shonda and in many instances that Joyce, you and I have had. And, you know, we have the extra— I was born an African American female, but I developed epilepsy in my mid-career. So, but we have a lot of children who have disabilities in addition to being a person of color. So I'm trying to do more for them as well as for every, every child in America.

Well, I'll tell you what, sister, you can stay on the line to listen in case you want to make a comment. So everyone knows, like, she's not just Denise Peace. She's Denise Peace, disability rights leader, epilepsy advocate, but she also was a presidential appointee in the Obama administration and now in the Biden administration, and I saw a photograph with you, Denise, in the Oval Office of the White House, and apparently you knocked out President Biden because he was standing behind you and you were in his chair.

That's right. I saw that.

What did Denise do? She must have told him, hey, this is my seat. 'Get up.' And of course, standing right there behind, standing right there behind her. So, uh, you are a big deal. Don't you agree with me, Shonda?

Always has been. You know, when I think about growing up in my family and women who I look to and admired and things that they were doing, and oftentimes it's said that you have to see something before you can become it. And definitely my aunt was that for us growing up and seeing what she was doing on Wall Street and in the world of finance and seeing her in magazines. I remember being young and my great-grandmother and others being so proud and showing us her in the magazines. It seemed something that was so far out of reach, but it would have seemed even more out of reach had we not seen it demonstrated in her life. So I am always grateful for the profound impact she's had on my life. And the way in which she demonstrated excellence so that we might have a path to follow and begin to achieve in our own lives. So, I'm forever grateful and love her very much for that.

Well, me too. And with that, we're going to go to break, and we'll be back with Shonda and Aunt Nece listening in. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice. Where Disability Matters at VoiceAmerica.com. Don't go away, we'll be right back.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. And we have on today my adopted spiritual, whatever you want to call it, niece, Shonda McDeal, who's the managing director of the Pittsburgh Public Theater, which I want you all to know, this is a fabulous and great theater. Anyone in Pittsburgh should be going to the Pittsburgh Public Theater. And on the line with us is a famous person that called in, Miss Denise Peace, who is an appointee by President Biden and knocked him out of his seat so she could be in the picture in the Oval Office in his chair. That's my sister. She's got it going on. Hey, Shonda. Yes. You have worked a lot in arts and with theater when I read your background. I have two questions. First, What caused you to follow this path? Like, even in school, why were you interested in the arts?

I think it is the ultimate form of self-expression, and it wasn't so much that I was looking to, to speak about who I was, but I was on search, in search of who I, you know, was and who I was becoming. And it was the easiest way for me to kind of proceed in that exploration. And I just think it's something that has so deeply impacted all of us. I think all of us are artists. I just think at some point we feel we have to kind of put it away or to the side. And the reality is we are all creative in our everyday work, no matter what that is. And it continues to allow us to explore deeper levels of ourselves and our humanity and the way in which we interact with other people. So that's why I love it.

Pittsburgh Public Theater, tell us about your role and give us a little history on the Pittsburgh Public Theater.

Absolutely. Well, thank you, first of all, for all the wonderful things you share. We are a flagship regional theater here in Pittsburgh. We're downtown, founded in '74, so we're about to celebrate our 50th anniversary by two women who at the time, when we talk about inclusion and diversity, there was a woman who was Jewish and one who was Catholic coming together to form this theater company, which was fully financed in its first year. So you had Margaret Reich and Joan Apt who were the founders, and really meant to be a place where— it was on the North Side at that time in what is now the New Hazlett Theatre— a place for the public, a place where people could get training and also explore wonderful, wonderful shows. The season back then opened with The Glass Menagerie, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and Twelfth Night. So 50 years later, we are now downtown. We are in the O'Reilly Theatre, which is an asset of the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust, and we get to be the anchor theater here in this beautiful building that was designed by Michael Graves. We produce anywhere between 5 to 6 show series. We are in a— we've done A Christmas Story this year. We did Billy Strayhorn's Something to Live For, which was co-produced by Billy Porter. It was an original work that we did in conjunction with a New York producer and really was received so well. Of course, Billy Strayhorn is from Pittsburgh and spent a lot of time locally before moving on to be the right-hand man of Duke Ellington. And so these kind of original works, classic texts, are at the center and core of our programming, but the public is also at the core. When I say that, I mean the many people in the city, the students, the young people, the families who deserve and have a right. When we talk about disability rights, when we talk about inclusion, when we talk about all the different things that we have a right to. The artistic director, Mariah C. Kaminsky, says, you know, every great city needs a public library and you need a town hall, you know, but you also need a public theater. And so we hope that we are that place for the exchange of ideas and the uplifting of our culture and society.

Well, can you give us any scoop on what's coming up this year? Or is it a secret? I will say— if it's a secret, that's okay.

It's a secret. But I will say that we are soon to announce that the season is locked in. And I will say maybe— I'll give a hint— maybe there'll be a throwback in some way to the original season.

Oh, oh, well, hey, I'll have to announce this on an upcoming show. I mean, once the secret is out, once the secret is out. And I want to tell you, I saw A Christmas Story. Oh, first of all, I love Christmas, so this was a big deal to me. But it was so good. It really was. Oh, it was so good. And, and that young actor, what— that was phenomenal. He was, he was so proud.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, he was so good. Um, I also wanted to mention that when I grew up— and I grew up in a rural area, I grew up in New Galilee, uh, so it was, you know, I, I grew up in where my mother originally lived, the homestead. So I didn't grow up in a privileged area, but I grew up in a beautiful area, and I loved it. And across the street was a cousin of mine who became my childhood best friend, and we never lost contact. And that is David Herrhager. Herrhager, yes, yes, husband of Dr. Richard Moriarty, otherwise known to many of you as Mr. Yuck. And we lost him We lost him sadly, tragically, but boy did he love the Pittsburgh Public Theater, both of them. Yeah, but I mean, yeah, he loved it, uh, and he was a great patron. I just wanted to mention him, uh, in, in honor of him, uh, on the show.

And I'm so glad the first lunch I had was with, uh, with Dave and, and, and Dr. Moriarty. That is the first lunch that I took when I took this job, and it was so comforting. They were so wonderful and warm and welcoming, and I felt like I was meeting— and I was a celebrity. And he pulled out his money clip that had the Dr. Yuck emblem on it. And I really wanted to talk to him about how you scale your work, right? So he began his work here in Pittsburgh, but then across the nation, hospitals took on the work that he did in terms of preventing poison and saving the lives of so many families, young people, and children with one sticker. And so I was just really curious about how he began something and then how he was able to scale it. And so many people now know of his legacy because of his great work. And so he was a teacher. He was someone that I admired in the few short months that I was able to get to know him. And I know his legacy will live on through our Shakespeare Monologue and Scene Contest. Something that he deeply invested in and loved, and he loved to see young people coming into contact with the work of Shakespeare, and that is in its 30th anniversary here. And so as long as I am here, as long as Mariah is here, who he supported so, so well during her time and tenure, his memory will forever be a part of the work that we do.

Only person I know that they honored with Corporate corporations with the lights on the top of the building. I mean, that was unbelievable. One last thing. David's father is also David, so when we grew up, we would call him Big David and Little David. And Little David, I know you'll be listening, I still call him Little David still to this day. Um, well, hey, we got to go to our news break on the half Our, uh, Perri Jude Radesik is who I know you all know her because she's been our news anchor for over 6 years, but she's out for about 3 or 4 weeks and then she'll be back. But we didn't want to miss the news, so we have someone that you also know that works for me and is also a superstar with the news for the day. Gerald Homi, are you with us?

I'm here, Joyce. Thank you for having me on the call.

And you have to tell Shonda very quickly where you went to school.

Oh, Shonda, well, thank you for all you're doing in the Pittsburgh theater and the public theater. I grew up as a musician and went to Kappa, so I'm a Kappa kid.

Oh, okay.

Played in the pit for many shows and still play music in the scene. Am a Cielo Ambassador and very involved in the arts community, just appointed to the Dormont Arts Board as well.

So, amazing.

Thank you for all that you're doing.

Thank you.

And a great jazz player and a great saxophonist, and he's in a group. And Denise, his father is blind and works for me, and they play together sometimes in their band, and he is so good. Gerald, you're so good. So, what's What's the news of the day, Gerald?

Well, we have some good news today in the disability rights community, and the U.S. House of Representatives has voted to bar Medicaid and other federal programs from considering a quality of life measure that would be used to discriminate against people with disabilities. So this legislation that has now been passed is known as the Protecting Health Care for All Patients Act. It was passed last week, and it prevents federal health programs from using QALYs, or Quality Adjusted Life Years, as factors to determine whether or not it's justifiable to provide care to people with disabilities. So, this is a terrible thing that would be done to where you would take a person's disability and determine the amount of their quality of life in a year versus people without disabilities to determine whether or not they should receive care. And Medicaid and other federal programs are now banned from being able to use such measures to discriminate against people with disabilities when it comes to providing healthcare.

Thank goodness. Oh, that is so terrible. Hey, Denise, what do you think about that?

Well, I am so, so happy because I know that, Joyce, you have worked so hard to get something like this done. So I applaud you.

Well, you know, Gerald, this is my sister Denise Peace, Biden and Obama appointee and epilepsy sister. You know what epilepsy is? You have too many neurons firing off in your brain. That means you've got the firepower. And believe me, Denise has firepower. And Gerald, thank you so much for that news. That's so important and such good news. Thank you so much. For calling in.

No problem, great to hear you, Denise. Have a great day.

Same here.

Thank goodness, thank goodness for advocacy. Yeah, and, and you know, Shonda, I was thrilled to see you at the Bender holiday party, and I'll never forget what you said to me. You said, you know what, Joyce— Aunt Joyce, this caused me to think more about disability and awareness and accessibility with the Pittsburgh Public Theater. And, you know, not across the board in the country. Do you know a lot of people miss out on theater and the arts because it isn't accessible?

Absolutely. And it's really unfortunate. Not only because of the amazing way in which there are artists who contribute to the fabric of beautiful art overall, but also because it's proven that when you have more inclusive members of your team, when you have people with disabilities who are partaking, that companies recognize that there are higher percentages of revenue. Net income, higher profit margins, more people are able to elevate what is happening in a way that without the inclusion of them, it just isn't. And so I think oftentimes we think of it as the right thing to do, which it often is, period, no matter what. But it also is something that you're not losing anything, you can only gain. And I think that the more people understand that, the more they'd be willing to include people of all kinds in the work that they are doing. And in the achievement of their mission.

Yeah, it's so wrong to leave them out. And you're right, because remember, they have, we have brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, father and mother, husband, wife. In other words, a person with a disability has a whole nucleus around them, just as anyone does. So when you include that person You won't believe how people with disabilities will say, oh, well, you include us, we are going to go to you. So you are right about that employment, the— I'm sorry, about the return on investments. You're right about that. And thank you so much, Shonda, for telling me you're going to be more aware about this.

And absolutely.

I want to mention that, and Denise knows this very well because this is something we talked about frequently, people with disabilities experience the highest unemployment rate of any group in America, any group. And I want you to tell me, uh, as an outsider looking in, what do you think the reason is? Why do you think that is?

I think there's a couple of reasons. I know I will just speak from my own experience. I think oftentimes disability is left out of the equation when people are speaking about equity and inclusion. It is not elevated in the way that it should be alongside issues of race or gender or other expressions. And so I think that's the first thing, is just acknowledging that it needs to be included and elevated as a part of that conversation. The second thing is I think people don't really know. I think, you know, it's harder to— maybe they think it's harder to know what should I do, what does it look like. Maybe they think it's going to be more difficult to be inclusive or they know less about that area and so it's intimidating. But there are so many resources available that can help to foster more inclusive business culture. There's toolkits. I mean, the public, we have such a ways to go but we're even organizing a lunch that we've invited you to you and some other people who work in the arts and employment industries. Because when you don't know, the easiest thing to do is just to say, we need to pull on the resources and the people who have the information so that we can do better in the future. And so I think, you know, those, those to me are the two things, either not really elevating it as a part of the equity inclusion conversation, or being so intimidated and thinking that, you know, you don't you're not going to be able to meet the need, that you kind of just by default don't make a commitment. And I think the best thing to do is just ask people who know and be willing to be vulnerable and get the information you need.

Right. Absolutely. Well, Janice, you know our brother Tony Coelho is the author of The Americans with Disabilities Act, also lives with epilepsy, is known around the world. He's an overboard successful businessman and political superstar. As a matter of fact, frequently on the news. He was on the news with President Biden at the anniversary of the ADA. He was on with him. And I wanted to ask you, what is your opinion, Denise? Why do you think there's such a high unemployment rate of people with disabilities?

Well, I think it's a fear, and it's also in this environment, I think people have stigmatized some of us who have disabilities. You know, I have epilepsy, and while it's not— and now I have mobility issues, so that disability is very evident. But even when I came back to work, after my brain injury, I mean, people would say all kinds of things because they didn't— you know, they seen something about epilepsy or seizure activity on the screen or whatnot, and they would think it was madness or I was possessed by the devil or something like that. And I think that some of those— the stigma that we— that those of us who have— some of us who have disabilities, we, you know, we have to overcome that. In addition to all of the other obstacles that people who are, you know, in our group, for example, you know, in our group of diversity have to overcome. I think people are becoming more aware though. I think Shonda's right. I think that they have found out that there is an economic benefit as well as a cultural benefit to including us. And I have to applaud Tony and you, Joyce, and President Biden and President Obama for really putting some teeth into ADA and to making sure that we're included in the conversation as well as the position.

Yes, absolutely. I applaud President Obama and President Biden. I want to point out This is a president who talks about his stutter, which is a disability, although I frequently say, "Wow, I guess God gets it when other people don't," which of course he does because he's God. But what I'm talking about is he had to choose someone to take the Israelites out of Egypt. And what does he do? Chooses Moses, who— I can't do it. I need my brother Aaron because I speak with stuttering lips. So there you go. This is who was selected. And I will tell you, I commend President Biden for talking about this because of young children with this disability, wow, that really has an impact on them. And Denise, I do agree with you about the stigma. I always say you're fine with epilepsy, but if someone has a seizure, it like clears out the room. I mean, there is a stigma attached to many disabilities, and we have to just keep fighting the fight to see that go away. As a matter of fact, Shonda, people with disabilities have, for years now, and we're finally getting somewhere, they want to see actors and actresses in movies or theater where there's supposed to be a person with a disability, the character, and they really do have a disability. You know, we know, why would you do that? You know, what do you think about that? What are your views on that, Shonda?

I mean, I think it's necessary. I think any type of work that you're going to do to advance people in the industry, you have to be intentional about it. You have to be committed. It's not just going to happen because you think it's a good idea. So I look to organizations that really put it in the forefront. I would say, you know, here at The Public, we have a ways to go because you have to really be intentional. We offer a lot of services and different things, but when you talk about putting people on the stage and in the films and in the theater workshops, it does require a cultural shift in the organization, but it is one that is necessary at this point and is something that we have to advance. There are groups and organizations that I've come in contact with. I know with film, there's Real Abilities in Pittsburgh, and so you have people bringing and celebrating the lives and stories of individuals living with disabilities. But real— I just want to call them out. So there's Real Abilities Pittsburgh. I know that nationally they're connected to a series of other people, and I also know that there are employment firms nationally that help, and I believe I believe in the upcoming Marvel series, they have a lead finally with a woman who has a disability. So I think it requires all of us. I have been saying whether it is relative to Black people, it is Black History Month, or relative to people with disabilities, we really in 2024 shouldn't be talking about the first anymore. I feel like time We're grateful, but people like yourself and my aunt Denise and all the people who've been in the field toiling for so long to advance these causes and to make sure that people have what they need and that they're treated equitably, I just want to see us get so much further ahead where we're no longer saying, oh, you're the first person with a disability. I remember coming to Pittsburgh in 2011, and there was a work at the August Wilson Center called GIMP.. And it was Heidi Latsky. It was in celebration of the 100th anniversary of the FISA Foundation, which is a local organization that's dedicated to improving the lives of people with disabilities here in Pittsburgh. Christy Trautman is the head of that foundation and does amazing work. But I remember it was the first time that I've seen a performance where there was someone who was in, you know, dancing with a disability. And it was so beautiful.. And of course, the title itself made me nervous, but the people who— Blattske, who created it, said it was like a preemptive strike because it was all about how people with disabilities are watched and who is watching them. And to my aunt's point, the stigma that comes along with it. But it was presented and it was something that totally changed my perspective about what is possible in terms of putting people with disabilities in a work. And not just doing works about the theme of disability or talking about it, but actually engaging people so that there's first voice representation in the work that you do. So, we have a long way to go, but I'm excited, and I know that there have been people doing that good work, and we just have to continue to do it.

Yes, that is so right. Special shout-out, by the way, to Kristi Trautman. Yes, she is awesome. She is a great person. And, you know, as we celebrate Black History Month, we just had on this month Valerie Jarrett and Tony together because Valerie Jarrett was the recipient of the Tony Coelho Award, and she is a friend of mine, and she is just a tremendous force that is also fighting with us quality of life for people with disabilities. You know what she says? She says Everyone deserves a job, and that includes people with disabilities. Um, and wow, everyone, you want to hear that show just as if you want to hear this show again, or tell someone else about this show, go to Spotify, voiceamerica.com, benderconsult.com, Apple, really almost every social media venue. If you go, you'll be able to hear this show and the show I just talked about with Valerie Jarrett and Tony. So, Shonda, wow, you have done so much in your very young life. But so far up until now, what are you proudest of in your career?

Oh, goodness. You gave me this question in advance. I should have known. I should have thought about it more deeply. But I mean, I think I think it's difficult for me because there's so much more I want to see accomplished in the world. You know, when I look at your life, when I look at my Aunt Denise, I'm like, oh my goodness, like you're on a global stage, right? You're working for presidents. You're advancing policy. So it's difficult when I look back. I'm probably hard on myself. But I would say, I would say in any job that I've been in, what I'm most proud of is the ability to bring communities together. So that they can tell their authentic story and find a sense of belonging in spaces where they may have been previously excluded, or to create a new space that is their own and has always been inclusive. And so, for me, what I am most— I guess when I think of what I am most proud about any work that I have done is not necessarily a moment, but it is kind of a— series of moments where I have been able to be a mender of a breach between communities or understandings where people then have the opportunity to learn something new, or explore something in a different way, or come to a better understanding. And I think it is— I think you both have exemplified that in your lives. And it is often difficult. That is the tough space. Because you are standing for something that maybe neither side is standing for, or you're trying to advance understanding between opposing parties. And I just think that's something that right now in the nation we're experiencing. But it's the individuals who can stand in the gap, like yourself, like Antonice, like my mother, like my great-great-grandmother Emma, those people who can stand between what was and what needs to be and still find a way to help bring people together. So I feel like I feel like I've seen that thread through my work and I hope to continue to be in that space.

What a great story, by the way, about Emma. Wow. Talk about resilient. Talk about— I mean, oh, people just don't know. I mean, you can't have a grasp on what people went through with slavery. It's honestly, when I think about it, it's so hard to imagine, but it is a shameful thing that happened in this country's history, and we have to acknowledge that. And I am acknowledging it as we celebrate Black History Month. So, Shawna, I'm sure you have many role models, but let's hear who a few of them are, your role models.

Oh my goodness. Okay. I mean, I start with the women in my family because it's just so real. You know, great-grandparents, my mother, Janice Miles, my grandmother, Bernice Green, my Denise Pease, of course, on the line. So many different women in my family, but I also I mean, you mentioned Valerie Jarrett. There are women in the arts, so Shea Wafer, Baraka Saleh, who have done tremendous work in arts and culture. Such a— I could go all the way back. Leontyne Price. I mean, there are so many different women who have had such an indelible mark on my life and career. So the list is endless. Nina Simone. But I, of course, have to mention August Wilson. I feel like his life is— he is the reason why I'm in Pittsburgh. A mentor called for me to work at the August Wilson African American Cultural Center. So his 10-play cycle and really chronicling the lives of African Americans, specifically here in Pittsburgh, but in a way that's universal for people internationally is something that has deeply impacted my life and his truth-telling. And so Nikki Giovanni, Michelle Obama, I feel like there's so many different women, but I'm grateful to them all. And there are also several men and different people who have impacted my life, but those are some of the names that come to my mind immediately.

Whoa, great people that you have mentioned. And Shonda McDeal, Managing Director of the Pittsburgh Public Theater, thank you so much for being my guest today.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for the work that you do on behalf of so many people. Thank you for bringing my Aunt Denise on the line. What a wonderful surprise. And I'm just grateful to you and to your team. And I look forward to the ways that we really are going to get to this work here in Pittsburgh at the Public Theater with your help and the help of so many others so that we can continue to advance this important, important work.

Yes. And Denise, thank you for calling in. I always enjoy hearing your voice.

Anytime, my sister, anytime.

That's right, you are my sister. And we end every show with a quote. And being that we had Shonda on from the theater world, the quote today is, "A lot of my life, people have focused on what I cannot do, but I have lived my entire life looking at the things I can do," said Ali Stroker. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice. Where Disability Matters at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you all next week, and in the words of Mary Brooker, when you go out today, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and Tuesday 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.