Shaunda McDill: Managing Director of the Pittsburgh Public Theater Discusses Passion for Public Theater and the Arts

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, hi, I'm Joyce Bender with Disability Matters. So nice to have you with us today. As you know, I tell you all the time how thankful I am to have you great listeners. 22 years, 22 years we've been on, and it's only because of great listeners. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You're also awesome, and that includes around the world. So hey, I had my assistant bring this in for me. But there are so many, I can't read all of this. But I wanted to tell you some of the countries. Number 2 after the United States is Singapore, then Brazil, then Spain, then China, then India, then Canada. How about that about Singapore? It's way up there. United Kingdom, Russia, Taiwan. And I could go on and on. Oh my goodness, there's so many now. It's bigger than before. But what I want to talk about is these. Okay. In Fiji, there's one person. In Malta, there's one person. In Azerbaijan, there's one person. In Iran, there's one person. And in Senegal, there's one person. Bosnia, one person. Zimbabwe, one person. So to those one people, one person, one to make a difference, I so admire you, uh, especially in some of those countries, for you taking time to listen to this show. So whoever you are, whichever one of those countries you are in, One person. Look what happened with me. One night, one seizure, and here we are with a national company that finds employment for people with disabilities, and we found employment for thousands of people. You are that one person that could tell other people with disabilities about this show so that they would understand that they're important. There is quality of life. One person. As I said, I look at this data and like, I can't believe that in some of these countries that there is this. On the Ivory Coast. One listener. Wow. Thank you. I'm going to look at this Ivory Coast and soon it's going to be 100, then 200, then 1,000, and we're going to get right up there. So hey, Yoshiko, what do you think about that? Yoshiko Dart, special shout out to you. But you can see how big we're getting with listeners around the world. It's just phenomenal. You know I love you, Yoshiko. And also, hi, Mark. What a great sponsor. What a great company. They have been the lead sponsor for years. The CEO, David Holmberg, and the COO and President, Karen Hanlon, and the EVP, Larry Kleinman, and the new CEO of Allegheny Health Network were all on the show. All of them. It's such a great, great, great company. And by the way, I mentioned Mark Sefko, so I have to say Mark is the king of the Mardi Gras, which is this evening a gala that raises money for people like me, meaning people living with epilepsy. So kudos and congratulations to King Mark. But I would be remiss if I did not take a couple moments to talk about the loss of Jesse Jackson, a great civil rights leader. Here we are celebrating Black History Month, and we've lost a man that will be in all history books for the work that he did, uh, himself, with Martin Luther King Jr., with so many, uh, people. Uh, and so on behalf of Voice America And all of us, you know, my wishes and thoughts out to the family, the Jackson family. And again, we will miss you. I know you are in a far better place than we are right now. So with that, yes, we're celebrating Black History Month, and I am so excited today to have My niece, Shonda McDeal— okay, she's not really my niece. She's not my biological, but she's my spiritual, because my sister is Aunt Denise Peace. Not really my sister biologically, but yes, my sister. But Shonda is well known through Western Pennsylvania and beyond. She is the managing director of the great Pittsburgh Public Theater. And Shawndra, it's great to have you on the show again. Thank you for joining us. Let's start with your story. I call it your journey. Let's start with your journey, where it started and how it got you where you are today.

Well, thank you. Thank you for having me, Aunt Joyce. And I am honored to be here today, and I'm so glad you started with honoring the Reverend Dr. Jesse Jackson. And I will just say that my story, maybe not unlike, you know, his, began really in the church. You know, I feel like growing up there are always these theatrical productions we would do and speeches. And so I always say my first entrée was really in community and in my faith practice, and that we would get up and perform for, you know, family members and everyone who was a part of that community. At the age of 14, I worked for the American Red Cross as a peer educator. We utilized theater to discuss the— it was at the height of the HIV and AIDS crisis. And so we utilized theater to talk to our peers across Long Island in New York about the dangers of HIV and AIDS and also to talk about prevention and abstinence. And so that to me was the first place where we were able to marry— where I saw theater and the arts married with civic concern and societal politics and ways in which the arts could impact civic life.

Skipping ahead, you went— you went to New York.

Why? I'm from Nassau County. I'm originally from Long Island.

Oh, you are from there?

I am from Long Island. Yes.

Oh, when you think about that, makes sense because your aunt Is in New York. That's right. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yes. So then, then, then you moved on.

I did. And so, you know, in college was in New Hampshire again, still utilizing art as a means to advance civic society and also just to entertain and to please. And then went to graduate school at Yale for theater management, wanted to really learn how to produce my own work. And what that meant to be able to do that with a lot of internships and things in between. And then came here to Pittsburgh where I've had the opportunity to work at the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust as a director of PR, at the Heinz Endowments as a program officer, at the August Wilson Center. A mentor, Shea Wafer, called and asked me to come, and that, that was originally how I came to Pittsburgh. And so that has been kind of my trajectory, and I I will say that while I had some family members in Pittsburgh, I will say August Wilson was the draw. I was able to study playwriting with him as an undergraduate at Dartmouth, and they also had a convening around Black arts on the campus, on Golden Pond, they called it, when I was a student. And I think that really catapulted me into the industry. It's the reason why I'm here in Pittsburgh and, you know, landed at The Public to kind of support the mission and the vision here and really excited about the work that the organization does.

You— did you know August Wilson then?

I did. He was my teacher. Wow. He taught playwriting. He was in residence when I was a student there. I got to interview him on the college radio, um, walk across campus with him. I did have that.

Wow, that is a great memory, huh?

It is.

Oh, such a great man. That is really good. That is really awesome. Well, Joyce Bender: Have you always been an avid arts person? And I guess you have, because you said it started in, in the church. But then, when you left the church, how did that continue?

I think it just continued through high school plays. I remember being on the diversity committee. I went to Friends Academy, which was also on Long Island, a Quaker school. Um, while we were there, we, um, produced a benefit, actually an HIV and AIDS benefit. Um, and at that time it was to honor Arthur Ashe. I was in high school in the '90s. I was the president of the diversity committee. And so we utilized arts to have all school gatherings and really to like teach history. So for Black History Month or any other holiday, or just to do the work, we would create these opportunities to celebrate through the arts or to teach through the arts. And so I feel like it's always been a part of my life, and I didn't kind of realize that it was going to be a formal part probably until college when I realized like, oh, I actually can make a living at this and there's opportunity. And now I have networks that can help me to do that.

You know, when you think about plays, I always think about this. I was telling someone the other day, I read a little bit about this. That in movies, you know, today, sometimes it's someone you would never guess could give this long speech by memory in the movie. And I read, well, there is a reason. Sometimes it's shortcuts, you know. Sometimes it's, of course, people behind the scenes helping out. And I said, well, that makes sense. But wow, what about when you're in the theater? What a difference that makes. When you're in the theater, there isn't someone standing there with the cue cards of old.

No.

I mean, when you're in theater, that's why theater is so riveting, because when you're in theater, you have to know those lines, that speech, whatever it is.

You do, and it may not be the same from night to night. I just was in Cincinnati at Cincinnati Shakespeare Theater, and an actor, an understudy, had to go on at the last minute. He did have a little script, but you wouldn't have known. He was excellent, and he had a guitar, and he had to act, and they had placed the script in different places for him, but you really would not have been able to tell. But if someone is out, or if there's a change, or if any given night someone is just not remembering their lines, it is truly a live and participatory exchange between the actors and also the audience. And I think that that is something that is to be cherished in live theater and a reason why people should go see a show. I'm going to plug that, go see a show, pgh.com, so that you can look at all the live theater that happens in Pittsburgh, locally produced, professional, as well as community organizations.

Yeah. And you know, here's a little bit of trivia for our listeners. Marilyn Monroe had the script and cue cards throughout. Like, in the bedroom, it was in the dresser. I mean, she had it in all different places hidden. But as I said, that won't go when you're in— yeah, I'll remember when I saw, um, The Chief. Yes, the play The Chief.

That's right, Rob Zellers and Gene Collier. Yes.

Yes. And how anyone could remember all of that.

That's— yeah, that's 70 minutes or more. Just one actor on stage, you know, the entire time. It is a tremendous feat and it takes quite a lot of skill and training and the ability to continuously engage an audience, even if you're repeating. But every night is different. And so it is, it is quite a feat.

Well, when people in theater, when they go to school to do drama, you know, whatever it is, are they taught how to memorize? Does that happen?

Or— I don't ever recall. I did some training. I was not a graduate school trainee in acting. I went for theater management. But I do remember taking some acting classes. We weren't necessarily given tools to help memorize. But I will say, as I've gotten And, you know, more and more of my friends, or learn, sometimes people will record and listen to themselves, right? So you just record everything you have to say and listen to yourself, and then you're able to actually do that, whether that's an audio recording or a filmed recording. You know, practice makes perfect. So just being able to, or permanent, I should say, practice makes permanent. So, you know, being able to rehearse with someone else and just go over those lines quickly, do a speed through. So I'm sure actors have all kinds of ways in which they've learned to memorize, but I also think there's something about becoming one with that character and also learning a history and the dramaturgy that I'm sure helps where it's not just memorization, it's also an understanding of a character and what they might say in a moment or how they may respond, which also helps them in memorizing what that character has to say.

Well, were you ever in a play or a musical when you were growing up?

Yes, I did Bye Bye Birdie when I was in high school. I performed in The Pajama Game in high school. I, in college, we did a number of shows. I was in Joe Turner's Come and Gone. I played a role there. Here in Pittsburgh, I've done a little bit of acting from time to time. I've been asked, so I actually got to do Joe Turner's Come and Gone again, but I was the older character this time, Bertha Holly, who owned the boarding house, not Molly Cunningham as I was in college. Yeah, so I've done some, some acting and, and it is daunting when you look at a full script. But my, my, my family has helped me. You know, sometimes we just sit and go over the lines, go over the lines. And, you know, also just again, understanding the context of each scene and what you're trying to accomplish helps to draw that line to connect sometimes the dialogue.

Well, with that, we're going to get ready to go to break. If you just joined us, we are talking to Shonda McDeal, Managing Director of the Pittsburgh Public Theater. And so I have to go to break so I can practice all my lines. Uh, we'll be right back. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters at voiceamerica.com. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters, Here's Joyce Bender.

Welcome back, everyone. We're talking to Shonda Deal, managing director from the Pittsburgh Public Theater. You know, I'm headquartered in Pittsburgh. Yeah, I love Pittsburgh. Love it. I love Pittsburgh. And if you haven't been there, you need to go. You do. So if you're in the Pittsburgh area, you're listening to the show, which I know we have a large listening area right here. You need to go. I was just talking when we were at break. I was talking to Shonda about the Christmas story. And you know what I'm talking about? Shoot Your Eye Out, that movie. Well, the play is so good, and I really enjoyed it. It was a You know, so perfect for the holiday season. But of course, they have plays throughout the year. Gotta go. Theater is so awesome. That's why I love musicals, and I love theater as far as acting and plays. You know what I saw on stage years and years and years ago in New York? Glengarry Glen Ross.

Glen Ross.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? I've never forgotten.

Yeah.

The theater does something different. I mean, it really does. And what I always tell my students at the Bender Leadership Academy, when I say you've gotta get up every day and go to work with a good attitude, I said, for example, on Broadway, they can't say, I don't feel good today. I don't wanna go out and entertain. Oh, I had a bad day. Hey, you're going out and you're entertaining and you're putting on a show. No matter what. Is that right, Shonda?

Generally, you are. Many shows can't afford any longer to have understudies, particularly in regional theater. So if you don't go on, the show often doesn't go on. Of course, things changed a bit with COVID And so you have to care for artists and ourselves a little more. And I think the industry is trying to make ways for that to happen for artists. But it is so true. Often if an artist doesn't show up or if there's no preparation, you know, the show, the show goes on. But on Broadway, I think there was even a recent article in the Times with the snow. The show still had to go on and people have to show up. And so it is, it is an industry where that is expected.

Yeah, the show must go on, right? Yeah. So, Shonda, what all do you do as the managing director? What do you do at the Pittsburgh Public Theater?

Well, right now what I do primarily is to make sure that we have a budget. So we're in season planning right now. We want to make sure that the budget that we have reflects the needs for the upcoming season. You know, each week I'm making sure that we're making payroll, you know, we're raising money. I am overseeing much— many of the departments here, whether that's development or operations. Many of you may remember Mariah C. Kaminski. She was my partner and artistic director. She went— moved on to Oberlin to teach on a tenure track. And so right now I am kind of managing both the artistic and the managerial side this season. And so my day can range from making sure that artists get into town and have housing and working with our company manager on that, to taking a call with someone who's been a million-dollar contributor to the theater and trying to, to ask for their support moving forward. So, um, I think a lot of my role has to do with the organizational management and structure. It has leaned more artistically heavy this year, and I would say a keeper of culture a bit, trying to make sure that the organization has a culture that is thriving and also is one that allows for the strategy that we put in place to live. Because as Peter Drucker says, you know, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So trying to make sure that I maintain the appropriate level of appreciation for our staff and things that are necessary because it is a It's a challenging job in the American regional theater at this moment.

Well, I know someone that we both know, okay? My— when I grew up, I grew up in a rural area, one block top road, a lot of cornfields down the road. But across from me, because this was a time when like aunts, uncles, they all lived— I called it the compound. They all bought houses around each other. So across the street from me was my, uh, mother's nephew. So my cousin lived across the street from me. Yes, we played together, we grew up together, we went to school together, same year, graduated the same, did everything together. And he went on to marry Dr. Moriarty. Dr. Yuck. Mr. Yuck. Yes, Mr. Yuck. David. I'm talking about David. David Herrhager. Yeah, David Herrhager, who I love so much. And I think you know him also.

Absolutely. Such a great, great man. And we— I actually traveled to London with him last year. We do a London trip here. This is our second year. He'll be with us, I believe, in April as well. So not only met him through Dr. Moriarty, when I look back, I've been at the public 3— it will be 3 years on the 20th in a couple of days. That was the first dinner I had. It was with Dr. Moriarty and David Herrharter at the Capitol Grill, I believe, 3 years ago. And so such great people. Dr. Moriarty was a supporter of our Shakespeare Monologue and Scene Contest for many, many years. And David now supports— takes the London trip where we go to the West End and see shows and we meet so many of the actors and critics. And also just supports the activities here through various means. So he's a great, great, fun guy to be around, and we really appreciate everything that he does for the theater.

Well, I don't call him David. I call him Little David. Little David? Yeah, yeah. His dad was Big David. Oh, okay. They had the same name. Yeah, remember that compound, all those aunts and uncles? They gave him— my mother gave him the name. I think, who knows who it was, little David. But yeah, he's my childhood best friend and still very close to me today. I know he thinks highly of you, and I know Dr. Moriarty loved the Pittsburgh Public Theater. And you know what? Yeah, if you're listening right now, it takes people like that, you know, to support something. People always think not-for-profit. They don't get it. Yeah, you're a not-for-profit, but you still have to make money. You still have to— yeah, you still have to pay the electric bill. You know, you still need those operating costs. So if you're listening, you know, you can go to— is it ppt.org/donate? /donate. That's what I wanted to know. And make a donation. That's right. I always tell people, anything, $5, doesn't matter what it is, but make a donation.

That's right, because it truly is for public benefit. We say nonprofit, but when you think about what we all do, what our organizations are meant to do, why so many people should give tonight at Mardi Gras, it is because these institutions is to support people. It is for the public's benefit. And if you're not benefiting the public, then what are we here for? And I really truly believe that the Public is an institution that is striving to be in communication, in community with the public in a way that is meaningful. And the public is showing up. We've had some of our best numbers since before COVID and some really great shows this year. Like you mentioned, A Christmas Story. So I have no doubt that there are people listening here and that you're in touch with, like David and many others who support the arts and just appreciate any, any contribution that people can make.

Yeah, right. I agree. Well, little David, you're listening. You know, you know, we love you. Yes. So, Shonda, I think you have something special coming in May. Something is coming special.

What is that? Well, in May we have an event that we're calling Turning the Page. You are really getting the sneak peek here because we haven't announced it.

We're just—

oh, it's late, but I'm willing to tell your listeners and I'm of course willing to tell you, we— and during our 50th anniversary week, anniversary year, we had Rob Zellers, who for many years ran the education department here and also is one of the writers on The Chief, the story of Mr. Rooney and the Steelers. And we also had Fred Noel, who had been a stage manager here for many years, Teb Hapis, many— some internal staff members were able to gather testimonials and beautiful pictures all the way from when the public was on the north side in the now New Hazlett Theatre. From 1974 to the 50th anniversary year. And we created this coffee table book, basically. And now on the 7th, we are going to host an event here in our rehearsal hall where we will be able to celebrate those years and actually have a hard copy of these amazing coffee table books that have the history of this organization embedded in every page. And it's going to be a great night to remember, and people can dress up. You got to have fun at these things, right? And so like Mardi Gras is fun, Yervin is fun. So where people can dress up as their favorite character from over the past 50 years. So maybe you come as Ralphie's mother from A Christmas Story, you know, you got to think about it.

Yeah, right, there you go. Oh, that's nice, that's great. And will that be at the Pittsburgh Public Theater then?

It will be in the Helen Wayne Row rehearsal hall. It will be— we will be selling tickets soon. We are looking for sponsors. So if you're interested in sponsoring a table, Delta Airlines is already in as one of our sponsors for the event, a presenting sponsor, and we will be looking to have a great time eating in community and celebrating the last 50 years and future forward-looking into what is ahead, which can— is— could be anything right now. As you know, you're on the board of the Civic Light Opera, and so we're talking and trying to find ways as organizations to collaborate more fully, and it's been in the news, but whatever it looks like, there will be producing theater in the city of Pittsburgh, and it's our opportunity to celebrate that on May 7th.

That is so wonderful. Yeah, well, there you go. You got, you got a little listeners, you got a little preview there. So that means you need to be watching the web page, right? That's right. PPT.org.

That is correct.

Okay, you need to be watching that web page so you see what goes on. Okay, well, Shonda. What I like is that you care about accessibility. That's right. At the Pittsburgh Public Theater. I love that. Do you want to talk about that for a minute?

Absolutely. We have so many ways in which we try to make sure that we're accessible here at the theater. One of the more recent things that we're doing, and I don't even think, again, your, your listeners will get a sneak peek, is we're trying to introduce— we've just got approved for valet parking. I think one thing that we realized, yes, that people, you know, even though Theater Square Garage is right next door and is really lovely, beautifully designed. Sometimes people have a partner that may be in a wheelchair or they're not able to even get from the garage to the front door, or they have to leave their partner in order to do that and maybe stand on a really long line. And so this really— this new thing that we're exploring with valet parking for our shows is an opportunity to deal with accessibility. Just getting in the building, right, is is sometimes hard for people, or having to leave alone and come back for their partners or friends. So that's something we're exploring. We also, you know, do caption, audio captioning. We do, we provide assistive listening devices. We make sure that we provide playbills in large print. One of our board members, his mother is in her 90s, and she comes, we always have a large print script so she can follow along. With what is happening on the stage so that she can make sure that she knows. And we also try to, not just in terms of what we do for the shows, but I know we were really trying to work with Bender Consulting with how do we make sure people on our staff are people of varying levels of ability so that they are able to then really firsthand tell us how we're doing, right? It's easy if, you know, you just kind of assume, you know, but when you have staff members who are working with you, when you have people on your your team who are experiencing your work day to day, that is the best knowledge you can have because they're going to tell you all the things that make your organization more accessible that you may not even think of. And so I think that I really appreciate and applaud what Bender Consulting is doing, and we do our part to try to make sure that the organization is accessible as possible. We have a long way to go. But we're going to continue to strive.

Yeah, but you're doing something. So people with disabilities, you know, there are venues where they don't care. You heard it, they do care, and we like to support places that support us. Yes. So I want you to know they do care. Um, so I did want to ask you, uh, a couple other questions, Shonda. When did Black theater start? What I mean is, when did African Americans really get into, I'll call it mainstream theater? Hmm.

I think that's a great question. And I think, one, it's important to think about what we contextualize as Black theater, right? Because when you think about theater, It has always been, or began as a ritualistic practice, meaning the origins have to do with kind of people wanting food or crops and rituals that they would act out in order to be— to get that provision. I believe those things date back— when you talk about being African American, they date back to the continent of Africa, they date back to Egypt, they date back to to all types of ancient societies and cultures, right? So I believe theater was always a part of our history and practice as Black people and as a part of our culture. When we talk about America, you know, really many people point to the civil rights era, right? So speaking about Jesse Jackson and his honor, but you look to like Amiri Baraka, and many of the earlier artists, August Wilson, Rob Penney here in Pittsburgh, who was August Wilson's kind of predecessor, but also like a local playwright as well, and actually the first playwright-in-residence here in 1974 at The Public. Because what happened was there, you know, arts and culture became a part of the outcry and the voice for civil rights. And so you find plays popping up as a part of that civil rights movement and era. Ed Bullins, Ntozake Shange, many others who wrote pieces that were in response to the times that they were experiencing. So I would say, as a simple answer, I think maybe Black theater began to rise in the early '60s because of the civil rights movement and the response of the artists. But I would say it's always been a part of the African American culture and that of the diaspora because it was a way of living that was incorporated to meet basic needs in ancient society.

Well, I, I know that would have started, as you said, in Africa, and then through, I'm sure, also through the churches, right?

Here, you know, in our church, like I said, when I grew up, you do. And that's very much tied to Rome and early, you know, civilizations where there would be these recycle plays, right, or plays that— pageant plays, as they used to call them. So in many societies, also in Europe, you would go through the birth of Christ. You know, I know here in Pittsburgh they always have the crèche out, but in ancient societies, much of what would happen is you would go through towns and replay these stories of the Bible. And that was also a part of history. And so it's no— there's always been a history of you know, theater being like the divine church, I believe, as Calvin said, or the church being the divine theater, you know, where those things are always intertwined. And so I've always loved to say that the sacred and the profane have always lived together, and theater has always been a part of kind of the religious life, but also part of those who were dissenters and trying to have their voice heard in response to a society that maybe was exclusionary to them. So, yeah, that's— I would say those are some of the origin stories of theater and how it came to be and the ways in which you see it manifest in our society today and in Black culture.

So important. So important, that is. Well, hey, it's time for our news break. Okay. Mathis on the mic. And there you go. There she is, Jennifer. Mathis, how are you today, Jennifer?

I am good. I'm sorry for appearing a little late today.

Well, we allow you because you're so good. Um, okay, so Jennifer, what news do you have for us today?

So I just wanted to highlight an emerging issue that is coming up in an increasing number of states concerning parking for people with disabilities. And this is interesting because it is starting to pop up in one state after another after another. And what is happening is that, as you may know, the federal law, the ADA Section 504, they require entities that are covered by the ADA, like stores and movie theaters and other entities that are public accommodations, to have to set aside certain amounts of accessible parking spots, right, for people with disabilities. And that has been true for many, many years, um, also for entities, public entities, governments, state and local governments, but right now thinking primarily about like the grocery store and the hardware store, etc. And so, um, what is starting to happen is that a number of states have been passing laws, um, or considering passing laws that require disabled parking placards for pregnant women. So Florida for example, has passed a law last year that allows somebody who is pregnant to get their own parking placard, accessible parking placard, for a whole year regardless of whether or not the pregnancy is at any point considered a disability. And the issue really for disabled people is that They're using the same spaces. These laws are not coming with additions of any new spaces that are accessible. So they're using the same spaces that are currently supposed to be used for people with disabilities. And so Florida has passed its law and Illinois passed— Illinois' law is much more limited than Florida's, but those two states have passed laws. Now we have Utah looking at it. We have South Carolina, Arizona, Ohio, considering passing these laws. And what is starting to happen from the reports that we're getting is that people with disabilities who live in, um, at least certainly in Florida where this has been a major issue, um, are having much, much more difficulty finding an accessible parking space, which stands to reason. And so there has been one lawsuit, it was dismissed, It was dismissed because the woman couldn't demonstrate that the reason she's having more trouble getting parking is because her spaces are being taken by somebody else because they don't have, they don't have parking placards that look any different. So they get the same color, it looks the same. So you wouldn't be able to tell if it's because it's being used by somebody else like a pregnant woman under this new program. All they know is that the spaces are much, much harder to get now, and that stands to reason. And they know that 1,500 people apply each month for these new, uh, pregnant women's parking placards. And, uh, it sounds like there may be something like 10,000 of them that have been granted. I don't want to— don't quote me on that figure because I think I heard that, but I am not certain that that is correct. Um, but a lot, let's just put it that way. Um, it matters. And so basically what happens, uh, to folks with disabilities is they have an ever-shrinking pool of accessible parking spaces when there were already too few, uh, to begin with. And so, um, this is concerning, I would just say, for people who live in those states. So in the states that are considering these laws, Arizona, South Carolina, Ohio, Utah, talk to your state legislators. I don't know where people are in their current sessions, but certainly it never hurts to talk to folks and explain if you have concerns about this. It would be fine to have a new parking placard program for pregnant women if they also created additional spaces rather than taking away the ones that exist for people with disabilities. So that is, I think that is the news that I just wanted to impart. And for people living in Florida, I think you can talk to your legislators and explain, you know, if you think this is a problem, and especially if you use a parking placard due to a disability and you are finding that you are having more trouble. Um, this may be why, but talk to your representatives in the legislature.

Jennifer, would you be able to tell us what those states are, or at the next time you're on, tell us those states?

Yep, yep. And I can, I can read them off again now. So Florida and Illinois are the two states that I'm aware of that have already passed these laws. Illinois is a shorter time, it's a 90-day time frame, so that's not as significant as Florida. Um, Ohio, Arizona, South Carolina, and Utah are the states that I'm aware of that are considering passing one of these laws.

All right, you heard it. If you're in any of those states, listeners, you've got to get in touch with your Congress. You know what I see happening? I see all these people, pregnant women, using all those spots, and then here comes that person in a wheelchair that can't get out, can't use it. That's terrible. That's terrible. Yeah, we got to speak up about this. And Shonda, I know you already mentioned you're trying to do something at the Pittsburgh Public Theater, right?

Precisely. I think it's just perfectly timed that this was the report that Jennifer provided. It's nice to meet you, Jennifer. Because I've seen it so much, you can't even get to maybe spaces on the street. And if it's a smaller space that already has, you know, designated areas for biking lanes or things like that, I don't know how people are expected to be able to travel safely. And God forbid there's snow or other things. And so I think what we might think is a short walk for someone forces them to walk alone or forces them to leave, you know, someone behind who then is waiting sometimes in the dark at our theaters until that person can circle and get back to them. It's just not convenient. And who wants to go out anywhere, but definitely who wants to go out on a night on the town to see a show and you can't even get into the space in comfort? You know, it's a deterrent. To be in society because it's not prepared or really thinking ahead relative to your needs. So I am so intrigued by this and I am grateful for the information.

Hopefully it won't come to Pennsylvania.

Right. No, we got to stop it. Can't let it be here. Thank you, Jennifer. We will look forward to talking to you next week.

Excellent.

Take care. Okay. I am so lucky to have Jennifer. She is so good. So good.

Yeah.

Well, Shawna.

Yes.

I think you are so dynamic and wonderful. Who has been your role model? Who is your role model?

There have been so many. But I will say, you know, one, I think having met you and seeing the work that you do is amazing. You are a role model not only for me, but for other people. Who need to stand up for people's rights or figure out how to get an agenda passed or how to speak up, how not to be ashamed to say what your needs are. And so I thank you for everything that you do to transform southwestern Pennsylvania and the nation. You are, you are doing nation-level work. And so thank you. You know, I have to start my family. I think about my great-grandmother and my grandmother and my mother. These are women who you know, not only were great matriarchs, but, you know, my mother started her own community organization when I was 2. And I laugh, people ask me, well, when did you learn about nonprofit or not-for-profit? And I was like, I was 9 putting together board books, right? Like those color— it used to be big binders with the colors on the side, rainbow colors. And we would be in our home putting those board books together for her board members. So that was at the age of 2. I look at My Aunt Denise, who was in the Wall Street Journal and finance as a Black woman when I was young, and knowing that she was celebrated in our family or going to Corona to Queens and knowing that she was not just a celebrity to us, but a celebrity to the world, you know, relative to the work that she was doing and then ended up doing in terms of the Epilepsy Foundation and other, other things. And so I think the women in my family, I mentioned Shea Wafer. She is someone who was one of the first women that I saw, Black females who were on the management side, not just, you know, able to do artistic work, which is its own gift, but also in a seat of decision-making power for an institution in the arts. And so that was important to me. She presently works at Waco Theater, which is the theater of Tina Knowles, Beyoncé's mother, in L.A., and she works there in management for their theater company. I think that there are women all around Pittsburgh, you know, who are doing this work, whether it be Janice Burleigh Wilson at the August Wilson Center or Malia at the symphony. I look at all of these women as stalwarts. You know, they're doing amazing things, and I look at them as role models. So I feel like the list goes on and on in terms of women, even in community theater circles. Joyce Megerson Moore, who runs New Horizon Theater, They do work in our, in our space now. They have had a home here for 3 years. So while we're producing on our main stage, there are often theaters doing their work in the rehearsal hall and having their full season there. And we're selling tickets to that as well. So those type of women who, you know, have just done this work forever. So I, I am— my list is long, but those are some of them.

Well, I know your Aunt Denise, and she is a force to be reckoned with, so I, I can see why you mentioned her. So, Shonda, since you've been— you've been there 3 years now.

Yes.

At the Pittsburgh Public Theater. Yes. What do you consider your greatest accomplishment during that time?

I love this question. I really feel, right, hmm, okay, I would contextualize my greatest accomplishment as being the Public going public, and by that I mean I think for many years the Public has always been known for great artistic work on stage, right, whether that was on the New Hazlett stage in the north side or when it came down here and a home was built for the public in downtown theater to help with the reactivation, right, reactivation of downtown. But when I think about the work I've done since I got here, it was really to make sure that this could become a third place destination for anyone so that if you're walking home, maybe you stop by the Dollar Bank Lobby Series, which we're about to launch, and you just get to hear an artist playing in the lobby. Or if you're a young person, you could come here and take a workshop because maybe you'll learn that there are careers in the arts that you want to pursue. Stage management, stagehand, an accounting career. All of those things can be in the arts. So when I think about some of the programs, Workforce or the Dollar Bank Lobby Series or New Horizon Theater coming and doing their entire season here, it is a way of opening up the doors of the public and saying, this is the true public theater. It is truly your public theater, southwestern Pennsylvania. And it's no longer the days of like, here's some art, you're welcome. This is what we think is great, but it's here's some art, you're welcome. And also bring us your thoughts and your art. And we're, we're grateful. And so that exchange with community is really what I'm most proud of in terms of the work that we've done here. In my past 3 years.

Wow. That's a great answer. Thank you. That really is. That's a great answer. Well, a lot of those things have happened and with you, they will continue happening. I have no doubt in my mind. Thank you. Um, so do you have a message for our listeners before we end the show today?

Yes.

I, I have one. Donate to Pittsburgh Public Theater.

Yes, donate to Pittsburgh Public Theater. Keep an eye out on the website for all the great things happening. And I think the last thing I would say is like, be good to one another. You know, theater is all about being a community. When we talk about disability matters, when we talk about theater, when we talk about culture and history, it really all boils down to us being in community with one another and the love that manifests in the service that we give to one another and the time spent. And, you know, those are the things that are important that help us to be most humane. Yes. About the needs of others. So my parting words on this day is be good to others and be good to yourself. Right. I know, you know, you're busy doing so much in community, just making sure we take time to be good to ourselves so that we can show up and be good to others.. And we're going to fall short, but just keep trying every day.

That's all I'm trying every day. That's right. And by the way, listening to the show before we close and you're saying, wow, I wish I could have had my friend or family member hear this. You can go to YouTube or Spotify, Amazon, Apple. Really, all the social media platforms, you can grab that post and you can send it to someone or go to benderconsult.com. All the shows are right there. Long line of shows are there. But, you know, get it, share it. And especially if you're in Pittsburgh, you know what we need to be doing? I know we're doing everywhere to get everything under control for that draft. But when the draft is gone, we're still here. That's right. We got to all get together and work together. Well, we end every show with a quote. Shonda. Yes. I know you're going to love this one. Movies will make you famous. Television will make you rich. But theater will make you good. Yeah, I know. I love that. I do. And in the words of Mary Brooker, remember, when you get up tomorrow and you go out, choose joy. Yes, it will make a difference. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Talk to All next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.