Ted Kennedy Jr.: Power of DEI to Open Disability Employment Doors

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show to everyone in the United States and around the world. And special shout out to Yoshiko, Yoshiko Dart, I think I think about you all the time. And you know, I do this and have free years because I want everyone to remember our history. Justin Dart, people that have been vital leaders for us. Everyone seems to not, not realize that we need more history in schools. Disability history. So I'll do my part though, Yoshiko. I'll do mine. And also, hello, Richard Roberts in Brazil. Richard is my friend with the State Department. Actually, I'll be seeing him later this year. Uh, he is just an awesome person. I first met him when I went to South Korea with Mary, and then When he went to Japan, I saw him there, and he is just the most wonderful person. And guess what? They're going to be on my radio show next week from Brazil. Don't miss that show. That is an awesome show. And Gangyung in South Korea, Veniamin in Kazakhstan, Cheryl Harris at the U.S. State Department. I've got to tell you, They're all working with me to spread the news of quality of life for people living with disabilities around the world. Well, you know what, like, I have a superstar. I know he's already smiling. I know it. I don't even have to see him. I know he's smiling because he's saying, why is she doing this? But I have a superstar on the show today, and really, truly, He doesn't know this, but when I first met him, oh, way, way back, way back in time, and someone said to me, oh, there's Ted Kennedy, I was so nervous to say hello. And I just remember what he said to me. I like you because you find jobs for people. I like it that you're a business. And when I left, I was, oh, oh, I was so overwhelmed, but I was so nervous. And here I am, so blessed today to say I have as my friend Ted Kennedy Jr., partner at Epstein Becker and Green, but a true international disability rights leader that I love, and so does all of us. We all do in the disability community and beyond. Ted, welcome to the show.

Hello Joyce Bender, thank you so much for having me on your show once again. I know you've been doing this program for a long time now, and I think it's great that Voice of America and other organizations, you know, think enough about the power, the potential, the influence, and importance of the disability community to give you some airtime where we can talk about what the key issues are that face disability, people with disabilities here in the United States and around the world.

Yes, thank you. And Ted, this is this year, thanks to my listeners and my sponsor, Highmark, this is the 20th anniversary of Disability Matters with Joyce Bender that is just so hard for me to believe. But you're right about Voice America. 20 years I've been talking about disability, 20 years. So you're right. And I, I appreciate them. I appreciate my listeners or I wouldn't have been here 20 years and great sponsors like Highmark and great guests like you. And I have to mention that from China to Australia, we have so many countries. China with significant listeners, uh, around the world. And I want you to know you're part of this also. So Ted, I have to tell you, like, your name is very well known, okay? The Kennedy name is very well known, as I know you know. But for everyone, not just in the United States, but for the 17 countries around the world with listening audiences. I know your family has always been supportive of the disability community. Would you mind telling that story to our listeners, you know, why and how it got started and what happened after that?

Well, sure, Joyce. You know, you and I have worked together for many, many years in the cause of disability rights and justice here in the United States through our board service on the American Association of People with Disabilities and on numerous other initiatives. And, you know, I came to this, to these issues, to this community Um, when I was 12 years old, um, I was diagnosed with a rare form of bone cancer, uh, in my leg and, uh, had to have my right leg amputated above the knee when I was 12. And so instantaneously became a member of the disability community. But, um, and we can talk about that in a minute, but I think your question was you know, why is this cause, the cause of disability rights, been really the driving movement behind the Kennedy family for 50, 60 years? Um, many people know, many of your listeners know of my family's involvement in the creation of Special Olympics, now of course a global worldwide movement among athletes with intellectual disabilities and volunteers and so much more than sports. It's an organization that promotes healthcare, jobs, dignity, equality for many of the most marginalized people in our world. But that was really sparked by my Aunt Rosemary, my father's sister, Rosemary was born with an intellectual disability and really, you know, focused my family's attention on how people with disabilities are just persistently neglected and isolated. And back then when Rosemary was born, there were very, very few opportunities for people with intellectual disabilities. In fact, most people in the medical community told parents, you know, just put your kid in an institution. That's the best thing for them. And that was the recommendation actually of the medical community at the time. But my grandparents insisted that she be raised alongside her brothers and sisters and have a normal life as possible. But that also brought my family members, you know, really got them involved about the issues that so many families face. And when my uncle, President John F. Kennedy, became president, he convened the first-ever president's council seminar on mental retardation. That's what it was called then. Of course, you know, the language has evolved and language has changed. Over time. But that was the first time that a President of the United States talked openly about his family or her family member with a disability. And that really was something that he cared a lot about. My Uncle Jack, my Aunt Eunice Kennedy Shriver, of course, created the Special Olympics. My Uncle Bobby was, of course, the great crusader for civil rights. And then, of course, my father, the late Senator Edward Kennedy, also made disability equality, equality and inclusion one of his signature issues, and of course was the primary Senate sponsor for the Americans with Disabilities Act, among many, many other laws in the United States. The Education for All Handicapped Children Act, now called IDEA, was also something that my father worked on. Um, you know, finally in 1975, um, you know, creating a right, uh, a, a right for all children with disabilities to a free public school education in the United States of America. Until 1975, children with disabilities did not have the right to an education in the United States of America. So And now, so too it is that I've made this the cause of my life. At the time that I lost my leg, of course, I thought my life was over and all. I just remember thinking all the things that I wouldn't be able to do anymore, et cetera. But little did I realize that it gave me a sense of purpose and strength and energy. That I now have made my life's work, and I really appreciate you having me on the show so we can talk about some of the unfinished business of the disability rights movement.

Yes, well, it's wonderful to have you. Wow, I mean, your family, awesome. I know your father, once I got involved in the disability rights community, anytime an issue came up, I could still hear whether it was Pat Wright or Judy Heumann saying, "We have to call Senator Kennedy." always he was the go-to person. So your family has made that a real backbone of their family's mission. There's no question about that. And today you do work in the legal area. What do you do in addition to the many millions of other things you do? What is your, you know, day job?

I've Um, there's, there's a number of different issues that I'm working on right now. Uh, Joyce, as you know, you know, my main job is as a healthcare lawyer at the law firm of Epstein Becker Green, and we're one of the leading healthcare-focused law firms in the United States, focused really exclusively on clients in the healthcare industry. And so I do that, that's my significant portion of my time, my day, my efforts are focused on helping companies, helping hospitals, post-acute care, biotechnology companies, other, navigate the complex web of regulations and laws pertaining to health, to healthcare. But as you know, I also spend a tremendous amount of my time on some of my nonprofit work, including, you know, as the immediate past board chair of the American Association of People with Disabilities and current board member. You and I serve on that board together, and you know that AAPD is now one of the leading civil rights organizations for people with disabilities in the United States whose influence is really felt around the world. I also am the co-chair of an initiative called the Disability Equality Index, and hopefully we'll have a chance to talk about that as well on this program. The Disability Equality Index is now the leading corporate benchmarking tool for disability equality and inclusion. So I'm currently working with over 400 leading organizations. Many are global. Companies who have made disability inclusion part of their strategic business imperatives because they know that including people with disabilities actually strengthens organizations and makes them more sustainable and more profitable. And then I'm also leading an effort to try to make disability inclusion the next chapter of ESG, corporate social responsibility. You know, we've heard a lot in, in recent years about the importance of a diverse workforce, diversity in all aspects of American life. And while of course it's important to think about racial and ethnic and gender identity and other types of diversity, I want to make sure that we don't forget about individuals with disabilities, because individuals with disabilities are the largest minority group in the United States of America, and people with disabilities have faced unspeakable horrors and barriers and so much misunderstanding and stereotype that they should also be part of this national, indeed international, conversation on diversity and inclusion and holding companies— because companies play an important role in the creation of a more just and equitable society. And when we can harness the strength of the marketplace through, you know, ESG initiatives and others focusing on disability inclusion, we can finally address the incredible disproportionate labor force participation for people with disabilities.

Yeah, you know, even when you were talking before about up until 1975, they could tell a child with a disability that, you know, you can't go to this school. When you said that, it makes me think, wow, I mean, this, this has been a deep-seated stigma with people with disabilities that I feel contributes to this high unemployment. And I've talked about it, you've talked about it, everyone talks about it, but I don't believe that that has as much of an impact as what you're talking about. And I want to tell you, listeners, I remember before Ted became the chair of AAPD, he called me and he told me, Joyce, this is what I think I'm going to do, which I was thrilled. But he also brought up about money investment and how it has an impact, the profits on, on companies, and that, of course, if we could connect that, that would speak louder than anything that we would ever say. And of course, he was right when he said that. But going back to the very beginning, Ted, first you went to Accenture. You want to tell that story, what happened?

Yes, well Accenture is one of our leading corporate partners in the area of disability equality and inclusion, and there's, there's many companies who are doing an exemplary job to ensure that people with disabilities have an equal shot and they're getting a job and participating in their corporations. Accenture is one, but it's one of the leaders. I invite your listeners to go on to the Disability Equality Index, to Google the Disability Equality Index, and see the list of companies that are now among the leading companies in the world for hiring promoting and enhancing disability equality and inclusion. You know, the reason why we focus so much on the area of employment, and of course that's your area that you are now, you know, a worldwide expert on, you know, competitive employment for individuals with disabilities, is because despite, you know, 30 years of progress of the Americans with Disabilities Act, we have made progress, in alleviating a lot of the architectural barriers, the curb cuts, the elevators, and so forth. But one area that we have not been successful at, in fact, where the ADA has failed to live up to its promise, is in the area of employment and labor force participation. Because you know that we have moved the needle very little if at all, compared to 30 years ago. The number of people, the percentage of people with individuals who are able and willing to work still cannot get a job. And it was— so that is why we need to focus on that issue, because without— when you give somebody a job, you give them their freedom. You know that. You say that all the time, Joyce. Yet for many people, they just cannot support themselves financially. They cannot participate, and they want to. And so we knew that from anecdotal evidence and other studies that, that contrary to a lot of thinking, that people with disabilities actually provided greater profitability and greater sustainability and But we needed proof of that, so we engaged Accenture, who undertook this massive assignment to look at the Disability Equality Index and compare the companies that were a part of that and who had made a commitment to disability hiring and inclusion to those companies that had not. And they, they analyzed this over a period of years, and what did they find? They found that the companies that led on disability equality actually outperformed their peers. 30% higher profitability, much higher revenues, 4 times more likely to outperform their peers in terms of total shareholder return over time. So, so this was evidence, if you will, of the vast power and try to debunk the myths that if you hire somebody with a disability that they somehow can't do the job, they can't perform at the same level as an able-bodied counterpart. And we turned all those arguments on their head. And it was through this Accenture report called Getting to Equal: The Disability Inclusion Advantage. So we took that report and of course ran around the world with that report and most importantly made that the basis, the foundation of our effort to make disability inclusion a part of this whole conversation on ESG investing. Because finally we had the proof that hiring people with disabilities actually made— increased your performance. As a company. And it was with that report that we went to many of the global, um, largest institutional investors in the world. And we have many global investors, but we have a lot of the U.S. pension plans from the state of Hawaii to CalSTRS to Oregon, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New York, Vermont. The list goes on and on. These large pension plans are— have now signed, uh, what's called the Joint Investor Statement on Disability Equality, harnessing their power as the leading shareholders in the world. We have many faith-based organizations, we have many international organizations as well, including TD Bank, to our neighbors to the north in Canada, to asset managers in the Netherlands and Australia and around the world. And what are these asset managers saying? They're saying that as shareholders in your company, we wanna know what are you doing to advance disability equality, not because it's the right thing to do, which of course it is, but because disability equality actually enhances financial performance over time.

Oh, and I mean, that is so awesome, Ted. For all of our listeners, would you explain to them, uh, first what the ESG is and then what is the Disability Quality Index?

Well, ESG investing is now, uh, it's called environment, social, and governance. It's It's a lens that many investors are using to evaluate their investments. And it was initially started by a number of labor organizations and environmental organizations. Labor organizations that wanted to ensure that companies did the right thing and were not manufacturing their products using individuals in, in slave-like conditions. Far part— far corners of the world and making sure that, that consumers knew where those products were coming from to make sure that people were treated ethically and fairly. Similarly, a lot of the environmental organizations are concerned about things like carbon footprint and, and sustainability and water usage and others and now measure companies based on how— what kind of stewards they are of the environment. So making— been calling out companies that, you know, despoil the environment and ruin the environment for sake of profit, etc. And it's through these efforts that they've been able to, you know, get companies honestly to try to do the right thing by raising awareness of companies and their business practices. So now, of course, ESG has become ubiquitous around Wall Street and investors, not just because, again, it's the right thing to do. People want to know, are companies sustainable? Do they pay their workers a fair wage, et cetera? But because these investors who invest in these companies actually are outperforming. So that's the reason why we wanted to make disability part of that conversation. This conversation, for example, on corporate governance and corporate boards. You know, you and I grew up, Joyce Bender, in a time where, you know, our corporate boards were led by all you know, 60-year-old white men, right? And we know now that, you know, no corporation now would think about doing business that had all white men on their board. And efforts have been made to expand board diversity to include people of color and women, etc. Again, not because it is the right thing to do from an equality perspective, but because they have shown that corporate boards that have a higher percentage of women on their corporate board actually do better than, than other company boards. So it's a situation where there's a double bottom line. You expand opportunities for marginalized groups and you make more money at the same time. So what we've been trying to do is kind of take a page out of some of these other groups, uh, ethnic minorities, um, gender minorities, individuals who identify as LGBTQ+, who have also been successful at incorporating their issues into the corporate marketplace and basically saying that individuals with disabilities should also be considered as a minority group and should be considered in all diversity and inclusion practices that are being undertaken now by, you know, global enterprises.

Yeah, so what that means is that if, if, uh, it would be as if you just were citing this, a corporation, uh, whether it was pollution from the plant whatever it would be, they're gonna— investors are going to notice if it's terrible. They're not doing anything about it. Why would they want to invest in that company? No one wants to invest in a company where all of a sudden they're on CNN, you know, with some terrible thing that has happened at that corporation. And if they are looking now at the disability equality or equity at companies, That is going to make a difference because, Ted, that goes to the board, right? That, that goes to the top.

Well, I think, you know, it's not just shareholders, as I mentioned. You know, we have, we have pension funds such as CalSTRS, the large California teachers pension fund, and New York Common. These are 2 of the largest pension funds in the United States, some of the largest pension funds in the world, okay? And they are calling on corporate America to do more to expand disability inclusion, again, because they believe that it's going to impact the returns of their pension funds. But I think there's another important point, and that is for people with disabilities themselves. People with disabilities in the United States represent 60 million Americans, and there's over 1 billion— with a B— 1 billion people with disabilities around the world. People with disabilities have, you know, can make decisions about what toothpaste they buy, what airline they fly on, where they want to do their banking, what restaurant they go on, what hotel do they stay at. All of these questions are the reason why a lot of these companies are now— want to become— if you go onto a Delta Airlines jet in the United States of America right now and you walk down the jetway, you know, emblazoned on the side of the fuselage as you board that Delta plane is the Disability Equality Index logo. And they say, "We're one of the best airlines for people with disabilities." They're doing that because they know that people with disabilities fly and their family members fly, and they want to be among the top choices for, you know, for individuals with disabilities. So I think I'm just using that as one example. There are many, many examples, but But, you know, companies now know that, you know, where people buy their coffee and all of these questions, people with disabilities are better informed and better organized than we've ever been. And it's not just around election time where people are finally asking candidates running for public office, what are you going to do to expand opportunities for people with disabilities? You know, no one asks candidates those questions 10 years ago. No candidates were asked those questions. Now, somebody running for office, you know, and I encourage your listeners, you know, if there's, if you're, whether it's running for a state representative, the mayor of a municipality, or a member of Congress, ask that person, what are you going to do to help advance disability rights?. And if we don't ask that question, who is? And so we need to also be asking corporations those questions. What are you doing to expand opportunities for people with disabilities? And thankfully, some companies are doing it on their own. They recognize that people with disabilities represent a huge untapped marketplace, that there's a, and, and want to make sure that they're doing the right thing. And people, by the way, Joyce Bender, and you know this, they want to work for companies who are, they know are, are doing the right thing. They don't— no one wants to work for a company that has a terrible reputation. Okay. We all want to go to work and affiliate ourselves with companies that we know at the end of the day stand for something.. And they stand for equality. They stand for justice. And I think that that's another thing that I think especially younger workers, but not just younger workers, older workers too, want to go to work every day for a company that is doing the right thing, that shares their values about not just disability, but on environmental issues. And other justice issues as well.

Yes, and, and you know, you mentioned about younger people, the Gen Zs. Let me tell you, when they're making a career move now, it's just what you said. Suddenly, uh, social issues have become so much more important when young people are making that career change. You know, adults also, but In studies they've done recently, it isn't just the money. It's what are you doing, you know, what, what, what are you doing for the United States when it comes to helping people who are marginalized or other, other, you know, other areas that you're working in. But one is looking at the diversity at a company that has become a big thing. Looking at the diversity at a company. And sometimes people will tell me, oh yes, we've hired all these people with disabilities, which they have, because many people, whether it's epilepsy, depression, MS, diabetes, cancer, I could go on and on, are working at companies. They just aren't disclosing they have a disability for fear of being treated differently. But I also say to companies, well, how many wheelchairs do you see at the company? How many people do you see signing? You know, how many service dogs do you see? How many accessible parking lots are filled, spaces are filled in front of your building? So we have to embrace that people with disabilities want to work. Can contribute. It's all about the business. It's what that's talking about. It's the business investment. That's what makes the difference. That's why the high rate of retention for people with disabilities— it's not because they're superhuman, it's because they've been left out. I don't care who the group is. If you've been left out and you get the chance to work, it's like a treasure. So The DEI, the work with the investment community, all of this, I believe, is going to make a difference. And you know, Ted, the DEI was started in a partnership between AAPD and Disability:IN. They worked together to create the DEI.

Absolutely. Well, the first thing that we needed to do when we— before we created the DEI companies really didn't know what to do. Even companies that wanted to do the right thing were not sure of exactly what we were talking about when we said, you know, how to make a company more inclusive of people with disabilities. So what we did is we set out to create, you know, the best practices, and that's all on the Disability:IN website. Is, uh, if you Google Disability Equality Index, you can find it, um, the best practices for corporate America. And it's not just, um, you know, of course, you know, architectural accessibility, but it goes straight to the top, the commitment of the organization, um, and goes into other things, um, like the, uh, supplier diversity and ensuring that companies, you know, will employ disability-owned business enterprises in their vendor relationships for different services that they outsource, etc. So it really is an important way for individuals with disabilities to get their foot in the door and to show that they really can do the job.

Yeah, and with —disability equality index, companies are certified. As you said, it's a benchmarking tool that shows or demonstrates the commitment across the board of inclusivity for the disability community, you know, at corporations. You also, Ted, you have the investment community now you talked about, which I think you have like $1 trillion in investments. Is that correct?

We have $3 trillion of investment. We have, um, over 30 international, um, companies and pension plans, many of the largest pension plans in the United States and around the world, and many faith-based, um, investors, you know, such as the United Church of Christ and many Catholic organizations and other, you know, who have, you know, very large pools of investable assets who are now, you know, want to make sure that their investment dollars are not going to companies that perpetuate discrimination against people with disabilities. They want to, they want to ensure that their money is clean and that is actually going to promote, uh, their, their causes that they believe in. Because many of these organizations, um, you know, many of them are, um, again, faith-based groups, etc., that are, you know, fight for equality and justice. They don't want to turn around and have their money, their their retirement money invested in companies that are trying to undermine the very work that they do all day long. So they look to the Disability Equality Index to help identify the leading companies. And it's really— it has not been that hard, Joyce Bender, because many corporate leaders understand intuitively what we're trying to do, which is why we now have over 150 CEOs who have signed on to a CEO letter to ask other companies and encourage other companies to do what they've been doing, which is to make sure that when you're recruiting for a job, that you don't screen out individuals with disabilities and that you actively, proactively go out and seek high-quality applicants with disabilities. So these folks are not doing it because it's some kind of political campaign that they're doing or they're all progressive, political progressives. They're doing it because we have individuals who are involved who come from a wide variety of different political viewpoints. Okay. They're doing it because they all agree that making your company more inclusive is good for business.

I agree. I agree. And listen, for all of you listening to the show right now, everyone knows People that know me, there's no gray, it's black or white. That's how I am. And I don't always say this, but I'm going to tell you, Ted Kennedy Jr. is part of history making a difference, because I can assure you, I do not remember a time in my life prior to when Ted started this whole initiative, which is investment of going to an event and seeing CEOs up on the stage saying, oh yes, our corporation is committed to the DEI. I mean, it is unbelievable when I meet either a CEO or someone from the C-suite and they say to me, Joyce Bender, you know, we scored 100 on the DEI. I mean, it's amazing to hear that. And I believe that if we keep pushing this enough, that finally we will start seeing employment, which is the goal of all of this. As Ted said, every time I think, 33 years ago the ADA was signed, how the heck can we still be with 70% of people with disabilities not counted, in the workforce. I mean, Ted, when you think about that, what do you think? Like, why do you think that is?

Well, I think the reason, Joyce, is that there's still a lot of stigma and attitudinal barriers about people with disabilities. You know, we grew up, we talked about 1975, you know, it was possible to go to school and never encounter another a classmate with a disability. You know, kids with disabilities are frequently educated in separate institutions. They ride on separate buses. There's, you know, not everywhere, but in many places, you know, that's the reality for people with disabilities. And also, you know, we had a very low expectation, quite honestly. If you were somebody with a disability, there were no role models to point to. Of course, we had President Roosevelt, who was elected, you know, President of the United States, but, you know, by most historical accounts, he tried to hide the fact that he had a wheelchair, used a wheelchair, because he didn't want people to think that he was incapable, right, of running the United States of America. But, you know, plus there were kids with disabilities who were basically learned at a young age, well, there was no expectation that you would go to school and get a job and get married and live in your own apartment and all of that and have children, right? So many people with disabilities never really thought of themselves as being potentially successful people. So there's a lot that we need to do to both empower individuals with disabilities, but also address a lot of the stigma and attitudinal barriers that people still have about, well, how could this person possibly do a job, you know, with a disability? You know, that's what people think. And so I think once people become a part of the workforce and once a company starts to hire a handful of people with disabilities, a lot of those stereotypes go out the window. But we know we're working on a long— we're playing a long-term game here. And that is that, you know, the more we can see, the more we can work with, for example, big media companies and show, you know, individuals with disabilities depicted in television shows and movies and others that are not these objects of charity or not these poor helpless people, but actually engaged, powerful, smart, capable people, it is going to take a while to shift our society. But it is shifting. I feel it. And I think that is what is going to happen in the years ahead.

Yes. The barrier that has to come down is attitudinal. There is no doubt about it. You know, people with disabilities, it's still— many people see this medical model, and it's hard to believe they still see that, but we are no longer in medical model. We never were. We are people, just part of society. We have pride. That is why there is this thing called Disability Pride. But you're right in how people think. But I believe we will change that. You know, I am the eternal optimist. I want to say, though, to every company listening to the show right now, when you say, what can I do? What can I do to try to be more inclusive? Hire someone. That's how you start. It's not just all this awareness, awareness seminars, awareness employment. That's where the rubber meets the road. Hire someone. Hire someone. That's what makes the difference. So, Ted, I'm going to guess that I— well, maybe I'll be wrong. I have an idea. We'll see, though. Who, who is your role model? You are many people's role model, but who is your role model?

Well, look, I get inspiration from people every single day, Joyce. Um, you know, I, I have to say that my role model is probably my father, who, um, you know, really taught me, um, to persevere was such a good— who really cared about people and who was a really good listener. You know, my father, the late Senator Kennedy, was of course the liberal lion of the Senate in Washington, D.C., served there for almost 50 years. But yet he was the first one to try to, you know, cross the aisle and And he believed in, in, um, in collaboration with many of his Senate colleagues, John McCain, Orrin Hatch, the list goes on and on, where he would collaborate. And I'm not sure whether that style is really in vogue today. The idea that you would work together, um, with somebody that you might not get along with politically, but that you share a common interest in trying to solve a problem. Um, you know, unfortunately we live in a different time now, but I think that, um, the ability to listen and put yourself in another person's shoes, um, and listen to people that have a different political viewpoint of yours, um, I think that is a really important skill that we all need to learn from today.

I saw a news segment once with your father and Orrin Hatch, and Senator Hatch, and that's what it was about, is here are these two men totally, you know, other side of the field when it comes to political views, and yet, after debating in Senate, espousing their idea very defiantly. Then they left and they went out and they were friends. That is sadly not how it is today. But that is to me an example of great statesmen or women when it is bipartisan, because how the heck are we getting anything done if it isn't that way? But I remember seeing that, and I know your father Was known for that, and thank goodness I had on more than one occasion the honor of meeting him. You certainly would make him proud when it comes to disability, Ted, because you are following in his footsteps.

Well, you know, let's remember that the ADA was signed into law by President Bush. And championed by people like Bob Dole, who was one of the founders of AAPD, and Lowell Weicker, and so many other Republicans and senators who came together on this issue. So I think that, you know, now I don't know whether we could get the ADA passed today, honestly, Joyce, because of the makeup and the nature of Congress and politics, right? So I'm really grateful that we were able to pass the ADA when we did. And it was the result of people of goodwill coming together and passing a great piece of legislation because disability, as you know, knows no political party or economic or religious boundary. It can happen to anyone. And we started the program talking about the Kennedy family and our commitment to disability, and the fact is, is that, you know, it's impacted, you know, my family in a very personal way, just as it has so many other families around the United States and around the world. And that's what gives us the kinship and relationships that we can build upon our mutual interest in alleviating the unfairness and advancing equality for everyone. Those are ideas that transcend politics in my view.

Yes, I agree with you. An example of that is how many of you spoke at the Thornberg Lecture Series. I mean, Governor Thornburgh, Republican, worked with so many Democrats, and it's amazing how people that care about these issues don't care if their political background is different. It's amazing. And I hope it becomes like that again. But right now, no, I don't think the ADA would be signed. So sad to say that. But to all of my listeners, I want to encourage young people listening to the show to consider going into politics because that's what we need. We need young people with disabilities going into politics, running for office, getting out there. Don't you agree with that, Ted?

I do. I think that people with disabilities should, you know, run for office, whether it's the school board or a municipal office, or a national office. We need to, you know, we need to become engaged at every aspect of American life.

Well, Ted, thank you so much for being with us today. It means so much to me and to everyone else that you would take time to be our guest today.

Well, thank you so much for having me on the show, Joyce, and I look forward to working with you in the years ahead to achieve our goal of equality and equal opportunity for people with disabilities. You've got me.

You can't get rid of me now, Ted. We've been friends for a long time.

See you soon, Joyce. Thanks for having me on your program.

Oh, wait a minute, I gotta end the show with a quote. We end every show with a quote, and that quote today is, "Disability only becomes a tragedy when society fails to provide the things we need to live our lives," said Judy Heumann. This is Joyce Bender. America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. In the words of Mary Brooker, go out today and choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Voices. Ability Matters, right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.