The Honorable Tony Coelho Shares History of the Civil Rights Legislation the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)

At Highmark Health, we believe what makes us unique makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster a variety of skills to complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition as the Best Place to Work for the 10th year for individuals with disabilities in a survey by the American Association of People with Disabilities and Disability:IN. We'll continue to celebrate and benefit from the inclusion of all people. To find out more, visit highmarkhealth.org. Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show today to everyone across America. And around the world, around the world. Wow. 70 countries with listeners. Remember when it was 10? And, you know, remember when I only had done this a couple years? And now it's like 22 years. And I just had 2 months ago my 1,000th episode on—

I remember when it was— I remember when it was zero.

Jenny remembers when it wasn't here. That's right. And now, um, Highmark has been the lead sponsor. Thank you. What a great company. They are such a great organization. Uh, but I have great people in South Korea, Gangyang Cho, uh, Carla in Brazil, Really all of the countries I've been to. But I want to say some countries where there's one person like Saudi Arabia, one person can make a difference. I don't care it's one person. One person can tell other people, hey, this show, you know, for English-speaking venues should listen to this show because you are in fact helping other people with disabilities realize they are important, they matter. So thank you. When it's even one person, thank you. Uh, Yoshiko Dart, special shout out to you. I know this is a big month for you, Yoshiko, as it is, uh, for all of us. This is Disability Pride Month. And what a better way— there is no better way to start Disability Pride Month than with former Congressman Tony Coelho, author of the Americans with Disabilities Act, that has spent his entire life after that forever. I know because I've been there seeing him do that. Entire fight forever for people with disabilities as an advocate. So, Tony, what an honor to have you on the show as we kick off ADA Month. I, as you just heard me say, we have listeners around the world and people that have not heard your incredible story, like in Brazil. We have listeners in Brazil. So, uh, Tony, how about if you tell everyone your story?

Thank you, Joyce Bender. It's always an honor to be on your program, particularly when you reach so many people. So thank you for inviting me. My story starts back when I was 16 years old and had an automobile accident— that's actually a pickup truck accident— and hit my head. A year later, I was in our barn milking cows, and all of a sudden, next thing I know, I woke up in bed. I had just had a grand mal seizure, and my brother had carried me into the house. The doctor came out and told my parents that he thought it was an epileptic seizure. My parents immediately rejected it because being Portuguese and Catholic, They felt that if you have epilepsy, you're possessed by the devil. And that goes back to the church a long way. And later in the story, I'll tell you how that sort of happened. But anyway, they told the doctor, told my parents, they rejected it. They did not say that in front of me because in those days, doctors didn't talk to young people. They only talked to parents. And so I went back milking cows the next day and, you know, went on with my thing. And then they took me to two other doctors. The doctors told them the same thing, didn't tell me. Then we went to witch doctors because to the culture that was the thing to do. And so it was a very interesting time. People would have you lay down, and the person I went to would pour hot oil on my forehead and on my chest and have a candle and then pray over me in a language I couldn't understand. And then afterwards, supposedly the witches have left. And so it didn't work. So I went to the next one. Then I went to the last one. The last one said, take a raw egg, put it under your— in your armpit, hold it there for 30 minutes. And if it turns black, that means the, uh, the evil spirits have left you. Well, it didn't turn black, and so that one didn't work. So I said to my parents at that time, no more witch doctors. I'm not going to any more witch doctors. I'm going to live with what I have, so forth. So I kept on having my passing out spells, as I called them. I didn't know they were seizures. And, and I got into college and, uh, and in fact got away from the dairy farm and milking and so forth and going to college. And I kept having my seizures. So Kennedy gets assassinated, our president, and it impacts me. And I decide I'm not going to be a trial lawyer, uh, that I want to do something, uh, really helping people. And so I decide to become a Jesuit Catholic priest, um, and I was at a Jesuit university And so I was happy. They announced it, they announced it was a big deal, and I was outstanding senior student body president and so on. So that was great. I then had to go get a physical. The doctor in the physical said, well, have you ever heard the word epilepsy? I said no. And he said, well, that's what you have. The good news, this is 1964, you don't have to serve in the military. Vietnam was going at the time. The bad news is You have epilepsy, uh, and the church, the Catholic Church, uh, with an amendment in 400 AD said that those who have epilepsy could not, uh, be a priest. Um, and, uh, consequently, uh, I was rejected. And, uh, at first I was happy because I knew what it was and he was going to give me a prescription to handle it. Secondly, I thought that there were so many other opportunities. I had lots of offers, job offers. So I was happy. I left. I talked to my parents, told them what was going on. They said, "No son of ours has epilepsy." And so I didn't know about the stigma, by the way. And so I just took that as a rejection, and that sort of changed our relationship with my family. Uh, I then started applying to these applications, uh, applying applications to the job offers, and I never even got an appointment because on all the job applications in those days was the word epilepsy, and I'd check it. Well, it became obvious to me after a while that, uh, that was the reason it was being rejected. I then felt that God had turned against me, my church had turned against me, my parents had turned against me, and now I couldn't get a job. And I started drinking a lot. I was drunk by 2 o'clock in the afternoon. I became suicidal. I'd given up. And on the day that I was going to do the dirty deed, I was getting ready and I was on a mountaintop. It actually is a hill, but when you're drunk, it's a mountain. And I was looking down and there was a merry-go-round at the bottom of the hill. And this voice said to me, uh, you're going to be just like those little kids. You're never going to let anything or anybody stop you from doing what you want to do. Look at that. That was the end of it. I have never been depressed since then. I got my mojo back. I was ready to go. A week later, a priest friend of mine says to me, I have an opportunity for you to live with Bob Hope and his family. And my God, I was excited about that because those of you may not know, Bob Hope was the entertainer in the United States and in most parts of the world at that point. But I went to live with the family. I traveled with them. I ate meals with them. I lived with them in the house. And so forth. And he and his wife and the family were absolutely fabulous to me. One day on the way to a Bob Hope Chrysler Comedy Hour that he had, he looked at me and he said, "Look, I want you to know that you think you have a ministry and it only can be practiced in a church. Your problem is that a true ministry is practiced in sports, entertainment, government, business." 'But you belong in politics.' Well, I'd been involved in student government all these years, but never thought about going into real politics. So I dwelled on that a bit and I thought, why not? And so I wrote a letter to my congressman who I didn't know. It was a rather interesting letter to read back now because I was basically saying, you lucky devil, here I am. But he read it and was interested. I got a call from his chief of staff saying the congressman is going to be in Los Angeles on such and such day. Will you be there? Of course, I said yes. It was supposed to be a very short meeting. It ended up being 45 minutes. And he said to me, uh, we'll be in touch. Now, I didn't know what that meant, but, uh, a week, 10 days later, I got a letter from the— or phone call from the chief of staff for the congressman. And he said, the congressman would like to make you an offer. And I accepted, of course. I told Mr. Hope, he was not happy because he could have got me in with a famous person, he said. And I was in with my congressman, which is what I wanted. And so I was there and it was an exciting time for me in that I was doing something, helping people, which is what I wanted when I decided I wanted to become a priest. But I was helping people in a bigger better way, in my view. And, and, uh, I became like the son to the congressman. I had my seizures, he accepted them, there wasn't a problem, and so forth and so on. And so it was just the most wonderful time of my life. Um, and, uh, I got married, two, two children. He decided to retire, and I had this great relationship with him, and he said that he wanted me to run in his place. I did. I got reelected. I got elected, uh, quickly— easily, I should say. And, um, I got elected after every time after that easily. Uh, during, uh, that period, I decided that I wanted to do something in regards to the discrimination I'd gone through. And, uh, I started checking out, and I realized that we didn't have our basic civil rights. So there was nothing for us to amend because we weren't covered under the Civil Rights Act. And so I started looking and then I got a call from President Reagan's folks. It was the Commission on Disability Rights and the chair was a woman from Connecticut. The vice chair was a woman from Colorado. I knew her and her husband extremely well. They came in and said, look, we are putting together some legislation on disability rights and we would like you to consider being the author of it. Of course, I said immediately yes. I sort of put things I had done together with what they were doing. They got Senator Weicker from Connecticut to be the Republican Senate sponsor. So it was bicameral, bipartisan. And we put it in. It was interesting, Joyce Bender. I didn't realize that I sent a colleague letter to all the members of the House and the Senate— excuse me, of the House, Republicans and Democrats— and I ended up getting, I think it was like 150 or 140 co-sponsors to my letter. And my letter just basically said, I think those of us with epilepsy and disabilities are being mistreated, I want to put in legislation that would impact that. Well, people kept coming up to me, Democrats, Republicans, and said, you know, I want to sponsor, I want to help you with your bill. I don't like the way that my friend, my mother, my father, my sister, my brother, my wife, my husband, whatever, are being treated because of their disability. So I got all these people on this bill, 150 of them or BOP. And it was, I put it in in October at the end of a Congress. So that means when they adjourned for the election, then the next year you'd have to put it back in. And I knew that, but that was a way to set the marker to get something done. In the next Congress, a woman by the name of Pat Wright, who we call the general in regards to disability rights, She came to me and she said, look at Justin Dart, who I didn't know or know of. Justin Dart is going around the country getting people with disabilities engaged and trying to do something about our civil rights. Would you be willing to work with us in regards? And I said, of course, I said yes. And on the Senate side, Weicker had gotten defeated. And in this new Congress, Kennedy decided that he wanted to have Tom Harkin run the bill for him. And so Tom Harkin, Senator Kennedy, Bob Dole, who was the majority leader, and Orrin Hatch, a very conservative Republican from Utah, were the co-sponsors. And they got a bunch of people on their bill, the Weicker Bill, and now they had that going forward under the new bill. We decided not to combine what they were working on, Reagan administration, with the legislation that Weicker and I had and try to come up with a compromise that we could get the White House to support. Well, that took us until April or May, I think it was May. And then we put in the bill that everybody supported. And so I was the author of that on the House and Tom Harkin was the author in the Senate with all our co-sponsors and so forth. An exciting time. However, the speaker, the majority leader at the time, in the first time we went around, said that this bill is way too big, you'll have to break it up. And I got elected by the caucus as the campaign chair for Democrats, as he did. And I said, no, I said, we need the whole thing. And so then in the new Congress, they put it through 7 different committees and 9 of 15 or 12 different subcommittees. And it was a way to slow it down. And they didn't succeed because I had left the Congress and I asked Steny Hoyer, congressman from Maryland, to take the lead for me. And he did. And it was a tremendous job. It was difficult getting it through. All the, what I call the cardinals, meaning the chairman of all these different committees, a lot of them were opposed and we had to work around it. And Steny was great. And I, even though I was in the Congress, I was very involved. And we had the general, Pat Wright, working and so forth. And we finally got it through the House after a long time. But it worked. On the Senate side, it was easier because you had the majority leader, Bob Dole. You had Ted Kennedy, the leader in, in the Senate, Tom Harkin, brother with a disability, and Orrin Hatch, a Mormon. And he told me when I spoke to their committee one time, he said, look at Tony, uh, in my church, the Mormon Church, you're considered a child of God, and so, um, I will support you all the way. And so, uh, he was there, and we got it through the Senate, got through the House, it went to the White House, and the Chief of Staff for the White House, John Sununu, I called him, and he's— because I'd heard he was going to try to get it vetoed. I called him, he said, you're right, I'm going to recommend a veto to the president. I call him Papa Bush, H.W. Bush, and I said, Okay, he says, I know what you're going to do. You're going to call him, he's going to say yes, and I'll be overruled, but that's what I have to do. So I called the president and he said to me, uh, Tony, I don't know if you know or not, but, uh, I had a daughter with a disability who died at a young age, and I'm totally there. I know that John's going to recommend a veto, but I'm not going to. And so we go through, and of course there's a lot of work to do. I don't want to minimize that, but it was absolutely the right time, the right people, the right moment to get something done. It would not happen today, but at that time it was a perfect time. So I sort of believe that God had a role in making all this happen to get it done and so forth. Um, can people stop it today? Uh, sure. Uh, in the House at one point, uh, uh, 6 years ago, I think it was, uh, the House passed a bill that gutted it. Republicans, uh, uh, controlled the House at that time. It was stopped in the Senate. The Democrats had control, and we stopped it there. So there will be efforts at times to do it. I thought that maybe this year with the big beautiful bill that's been going through, that it might do something with the ADA. It didn't, thank God. And so we're, we're saved and going forward. This is an awful time for those of us with disabilities for so many different reasons. But that's my story, Joyce Bender. I've been blessed by God to be able to do what we've done. ADA is the law of the land in over 50 different countries throughout the world. Not the same as ours, but it is a recognition on the part of each of those countries that those of us with disabilities should have our basic rights, and that's what really counts. And so I've been blessed, and, you know, as Joyce Bender has indicated, I have devoted my life, my ministry, my passion to as much as I can in regards to disabilities since that law was passed. And I'm sure Joyce Bender will ask me questions on that as we move along.

And I will say to all of our listeners, you know, Tony, I love him. He's like a brother to me. But everything he told you is true. No exaggeration. Tony, you are blessed by God because when you were telling the story, I'm thinking, think about it, started on a farm. No wealth. Started on a farm and look what happened. Now you've impacted millions and millions and millions of people all around the world and it will continue. Yeah, I do have a question. What was it like that day 35 years ago? What was it like when it was signed on the South Lawn of the White House?

Well, it was signed by one of my real heroes, Papa Bush. Um, uh, it was a moment, Joyce, that I shed some tears. It was just, um, a recognition on the part of the United States of America that those of us with disabilities now had our basic rights. It didn't mean that it solved all our problems, as you know, we've had to work on a lot of them since then. But basically, it gave us our basic rights, and that we had a right to sue, and the courts would have to deal with it. There was a— the Justice Department could enforce the law and make the states and cities and businesses and individuals recognize our rights. That was a whole big thing. And when I thought about it and the president up there signing the bill, it was overwhelming to me. I was, you know, on Wall Street at the time, but there was nothing like that day. I compare it to the day that my daughters were born, the day I got married, and so forth. But it was that important to me.

Yeah, I can't imagine what it was like for you to stand there, see President Bush sign that into law, what you had worked so hard to see happen, and I do only wish I had known you then so that I could have been standing there by your side, uh, when that happened.

And you would have been.

Yeah. Yes, I would have. And you know, we would have both been crying. We would both have been in tears.

That's right.

I do have a question though. How, how did this start? I mean, how did— like, who— you came up with the idea? I mean, how did this all begin originally?

I think it's— in fairness, I didn't know what was going on, but Justin Dart is really one of our heroes in the disability community. He was running around the country in a wheelchair, but going around the country getting people with disabilities excited about doing something about our basic rights. So I naively, when I'm checking and we can't get— I, when I was a staffer, I tried to get my boss to offer some amendments, but it didn't do any good because we didn't have our basic rights. So when I got elected, that's what I focused on. How do I get this done? I realized that it would take significant legislation. And so I started working on it with my staff and it was, you know, Joyce Bender sort of going through the experiences I had as an individual, my— what my parents did, what I could— you know, I couldn't get a job, all the different rejections that I went through that, you know, made me want to give up in life. Uh, when I got elected, this was an opportunity to try to reverse that. That's what I wanted to do. And so I started moving around and, and And of course, the Reagan people came to me. It was a great marriage. We put in a bill that was actually much tougher than the one that got passed, by the way. But we put in legislation and then things started rolling because, as I say, I got all these co-sponsors on the House side. They got a bunch of co-sponsors on the Senate side. I think it was, you know, 30 or 40, whatever it was, but it was a bunch of them on the Senate side. So then in the next Congress, then we had to take advantage of that. I was not there, but as everyone knows, I was very engaged in the process and helping out Steny and others to go through crises that we had periodically with members and so on. But Joyce Bender, it was just, you know, I'm very spiritual. Um, I think there was a, um, something inside of me that said that I had to do this, and, uh, and I never thought twice about it. It was, yeah, I got to do it. And as a result of that, I still feel I've got to do it, and I'm still as passionate, um, and committed as I've ever been. But it's that feeling that I got, um, I think after my suicide attempt, when I got my mojo back, that I've never looked back. Um, you're right, it started on a farm, started on a dairy farm. My father, my parents were, were poor. Um, they actually went through bankruptcy on in the farm and so forth. So it started, it started there. And to be able to get a law passed, uh, that impacted me and so many others, um, you know, it, it's only because, in my view, only because God was there. And I believe that most sincerely.

Me too.

Well, hey, it is time for Mathis on the Mic. Jennifer Mathis, unfortunately—

oh, hello, Jennifer.

Hey. Unfortunately, you don't have good news.

I don't. Um, this is really, uh, a very difficult day for people with disabilities and and so many other millions of Americans who depend on the Medicaid program, on SNAP, Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, food stamps, on the Affordable Care Act, on CHIP, Child Health Insurance Program, because The Senate at this point has passed what the president and Congress call the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which is anything but beautiful, which is the budget reconciliation bill. And as it stands right now, the version that is passed by the Senate cuts nearly a trillion dollars from the Medicaid program. Program that's hard to fathom. A trillion— $930 billion is what is estimated by the Congressional Budget Office just for cuts to Medicaid alone. And it would leave, according to the Congressional Budget Office, 12 million people losing the coverage that they have now, losing the healthcare coverage they have now, and another 5 million people, uh, will lose their coverage, uh, that they have now because Congress, uh, decided not to extend the subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. And so that is basically 17 million people in this country who will be stripped of the healthcare coverage that they now have and rely on. Um, that is dramatic. Um, another $200 billion, uh, lost from the food stamp program. So children and parents going hungry, um, because they can't get enough to eat. Um, so it is important, um, that people call their representative in the House because at this point the bill needs to go back to the House of Representatives to be voted on there because it was changed in the Senate. So the House had passed a prior version. This version passed by the Senate makes even deeper cuts to Medicaid than the House version did. And so we know there are some folks that— potentially enough folks who have concerns to make a difference. In the House, so it is important that people call your representative today. They may vote on the bill in the House as soon as tomorrow. The president has said he wants it on his desk by July 4th, so that is obviously the end of this week. So please reach out today to your representative. In the House, um, you can contact the Capitol switchboard, 202-225, uh, I think it's 3121. Um, so, uh, if you don't know who your representative is, they can connect you. And that's the new—

so, Tony, while I have Jennifer here, question, you know, what do we do now? Now what?

As Jennifer has pointed out, The House bill is equally as bad as the Senate bill. And the only thing that the House can do is to insist upon their bill as opposed to the Senate bill. So it's only the additional part that the Senate changed that is now in what we call conference. And for the two bodies to work it out and go to the to the White House. I think Jennifer and I would agree that the odds are is that they will probably work it out and that it will get to the president's desk because he's made it a top priority. And he's indicated just yesterday or last night or whatever that if you don't vote for me, vote for the bill, I'm gonna have somebody run against you in your Republican primary. So he's really threatening because it is a significant bill and it changes, as Jennifer has said, the quality of life for a lot of, a lot of people and really impacts the poor more than anybody else, impacts the middle class. And they, they will point out that in some folks they'll get a benefit. But as Jennifer knows, the significant benefit of this is for the wealthy in what they get. So as a result of giving an additional tax break to the wealthy, meaning lower their taxes, you're having to cut programs for the middle class and the poor. So it is a very, very unfair bill. And I wish there were a way to stop it. I don't think there is, but we've got to try. We've got to try to see if we can get— all we need to do is to get 4 members of the House to object to the bill, and that will then force more consideration by the House and then the Senate. But that's what it takes, only 4. So those of you who can call today, uh, or tomorrow, please, please, please all call and put pressure on your congressperson. And basically, uh, it's putting pressure on your Republican, uh, congresspeople if you are represented by a Republican. Uh, all the Democrats will vote no, um, or all but maybe one or two, but In my view, all of them will vote no. So it's basically how do you switch 3 or 4— 4 would be the ideal— but how do you change 4 votes, 4 Republicans to say no? That would then force them to go back to conference and to work something out, and it wouldn't make it to the White House by the forth, and there could then be all kinds of changes, uh, involved if we could successfully get 4 Republicans to vote no.

So before you go, Jennifer, you know, I asked you this before, but I'll ask you again. If this does go through, then what? What do we do?

Well, I think a couple of things. I mean, then we have a big problem, first of all, but people will need a lot of help staying on Medicaid. Part of the reason that people are going to lose Medicaid is not that they will be ineligible for it. It is that there are a lot of things in this bill that seem designed to trip people up and to get them caught in red tape to make it as hard as possible for people to stay on Medicaid and to get on Medicaid in the first place, even if they're eligible for it. So work reporting requirements that require them to keep reporting and may require documentation that they don't have, even if they are working, it requires more frequent redeterminations, which tend to boot people off of the program because they didn't know or couldn't get their documents together in time. And so people are going to need help. I think advocates need to be thoughtful about that, and we need to all be making sure we set up as much as we can in terms of help for people to make sure that they can can be supported in re-upping their Medicaid or getting onto Medicaid in the first place. We need to be telling states that they need to comply with the ADA when they are operating their processes. So if people need accommodations because of a disability, if they people need help with those processes, that that may be a reasonable accommodation, reasonable modification, that they need to give that when somebody has a disability. So I think we need to start demanding things like that, um, to help people stay on, to help people have equal opportunity, um, and not lose coverage because their disability made it particularly difficult for them to, to participate in all these processes that states have to benefit from the program because they're getting caught up in 2026, right?

Isn't that where it's—

Well, that's the other thing. Yes. And I work for a 501, so I'm not going to talk about that. But, you know, vote the way that you think that it will help people with disabilities.

And I'm not in a 503, so I can say what I want to say. I think it's a horrible bill.

Yes, yes, and, and, and I agree. I even in 501, I think we can all say this is a horrible bill.

Yeah, and, and also people don't realize it also impacts Social Security, um, and president and others said they wouldn't and it, uh, but it does, and it's in a clever way, but it does. And, and in effect, what you got to be careful of is we've always said, going clear back, uh, uh, when I got involved and got elected in '78, clear back to, uh, 1980, uh, when we started making Social Security, uh, the third rail, you could not attack it. And so they've been unsuccessful over all these years to try to kill Social Security, cut it back, do whatever. And so here's the first chance that they've had, it looks like, to start whittling away at Social Security. And, and I will bet any amount of money that this will be only the first time they do that. They will keep doing it going forward.

Well, Jennifer, um, you know what I want to do for our listeners? I'm going to focus you and/or others from Bazelon on the 15th for an hour. And what we're going to do is I'm going to have questions sent in and we're going to help talk about this because it is Disability Pride Month and we are advocates for people with disabilities. So thank you. Sorry it had to be this news, but, but everyone needs to make that call. To their representative. Don't think it doesn't matter. It does. Can't give up. Um, and talk to you next week.

Thank you.

All right, nice to see you, Jennifer.

You too.

By the way, I should say, while Jennifer's on the line, that you're talking to a real, real strong advocate for those of us with disabilities. She was at the Justice Department in the Civil Rights Division and handled all the disability issues and was the primary person to get through a rule that said if you were blind, hearing impaired, physically impaired, you had a basic right to the internet. Jennifer did that, and President Biden signed that in, I think it was May of last year, and it's now the law of the land. So all of us owe Jennifer so much for leaving Baselon to join the administration to get this done. She did it. She was successful. We are the beneficiaries of her effort. So I love you, Jennifer. Thank you.

Me too. All right.

Take care. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Well, Tony, I have to ask you a question here about Congress. When something goes through that's terrible like this bill, let's say people start— I hate to say this— but dying, not having access next year to any healthcare, kids starving because they don't have food stamps, and there's a huge outcry. Can they go? Can Congress have to go back and do something?

Well, Joyce Bender, in the past that has happened when people revolted on some legislation. When I was there in the Congress, we had to come back and change it. But it takes a revolt. It takes people out in the streets demonstrating and aggressive. The only problem is in those days, believed in the system. Today, if you protest, you could be liable to be arrested, as was happening to some people yesterday in the Capitol— I mean, in Washington, D.C.— who were protesting this effort, and they were arrested. So the climate is different. But if the public would get overwhelmingly engaged, and, uh, be involved aggressively. It would happen because in 1986 there's an election for the House and the Senate, uh, and if people are revolting, uh, the Republicans in the House and the Senate would be concerned and would go ahead and try to get some things changed. I don't know if the president would sign the changes, but the, the Republicans in the House and the Senate might be willing to say, we've got to change this, we've got to stop this. That is the only thing. The revolution has to come from the bottom, Joyce Bender. It doesn't come from the top. It has to be people out there, normal people like you and I, who get together and make a difference and let the elected officials in the Congress know that it's wrong. What they've done is wrong and that it's hurtful to people. Now, in part of the legislation, they have not put it into effect until after '26. Well, that's surprising. I wonder why. Well, it's basically to get around the election. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be out there demonstrating. Aggressively against this. And yes, if we do, a change can be made, but it takes a real grassroots development in order to make that happen.

Yeah, Selma.

Yeah, there's a lot of times in our country, as a result of grassroots, the basic civil rights legislation was put in effect. Uh, it took people like John Lewis being beat up with a pipe, uh, cracked his head and so forth. But so there have been throughout our history of where the general populace has revolted against what the Congress has done or won't do. And so if this bill impacts enough people, uh, then there could be the revolt that took place at several times in the past. It is that significant. But, and I should say that the majority in the Senate is only 3 and the majority in the House is only 4. So if enough people revolt, you could have people really concerned about the '86 election. I mean, excuse me, the, yeah, the '86 elections, and they could try to get something done before November of '86. That is possible. Uh, is it doable? Yes. Uh, will it? I don't know. Uh, it comes down to a grassroots revolt.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what's changed things in the past. Hey, before the show ends today, I— we are celebrating Disability Pride Month from 35 years ago, but So many things you've done have happened since then, and one of them is the Kwelo Center. Just as I said, started here at the dairy farm, and now here we are. Look where you've gone. Could you tell everyone about the Kwelo Center?

Joyce Bender, in going through all the experience with the ADA and then the other issues that I've worked on, like the rule in regards to people having access to the internet, and so many other things that I've worked on, I realized that I've been blessed. And so what I wanted to do was to develop a center that was basically on disability rights. And so I established the Carlos Center on Disability Rights at Loyola Marymount University, my alma mater, in Los Angeles, California. And it has been a huge success so far. We've put through now over 170 individuals. Everyone has to have a disability. You can't get in unless you have a disability. And basically what it is, is to orient you as to what the law is, what the disability law is. Ultimately, what I want is to get individuals with disabilities in state and federal courts. That doesn't mean that everyone who goes through the program has to become a judge. It doesn't mean that everybody who goes through the program has to even become a lawyer. But if you are working for organization that deals with people with disabilities, you would know what the law is. You would be able to help out and do things. So that has happened. We've got some great success stories. It's very rewarding to me to meet with these individuals and listen to their stories. And besides the legal, we call it the Cuello Fellows, but in regards to the Cuello Fellows program. We're also very involved in immigration, individuals who have disabilities and being treated with respect and dignity. We're also very involved in everything, every aspect of life where those of us with disabilities need representation or need help. And so this center has developed very nicely. I'm very excited about it. I have provided funds and raised funds to endow it so it's there for the rest of our time. And so basically, as I've said to people, if you want to help, we would love it. And so Joyce Bender can maybe put it on the internet in some way. In the chat room, and you can help if you want. But it's very exciting, Joyce, to see young people. Uh, by the way, to be a Kuelow Fellow, it's any age, um, and we've had some real success stories, uh, with individuals going to law school, graduating, and so forth. So, um, anyway, it's exciting.

I was going to say, that must make you so proud to see that. See what I mean? See what I mean about Tony? Never stops. Here he is still doing something.

Well, what I felt is that I had to pay back, um, because I've been so blessed. And I interviewed 6 different colleges to talk about the center and, uh, finally decided on Loyola because that's where I graduated from. But more importantly, when I was suicidal, they're the ones that helped me out. So it was a very appropriate place to go back to.

Uh, one story I have to have you tell. Tell everyone what happened when you were running for Congress and that reporter called you.

Well, when I was running, uh, the— my opponent, it was in October, uh, with the November election, was obviously going to lose.— and there was a dinner party that he had. And he said, what do you think of Tony being elected to Congress and then having to go to the White House to argue an issue for us on agriculture or water? And I don't know if you know it or not, he has epilepsy. And could have a seizure and not be very effective. Well, the reporter called me the next day, said, "I understand that your opponent said this last night. What is your reaction?" Well, the good Lord was with me, and I responded, "Well, in all the years that I've been at the White House or in Washington, I knew a lot of people who went to the White House and had fits. At least I'd have an excuse." That story has never been used against me again. But, you know, I'm not really that clever, but it was there with me that day.

I think that was awesome.

Interesting to tell Joyce— we have a couple minutes here— is that, uh, as I have said, uh, I was denied entry into the seminary.— and couldn't become a priest. Now, when I was elected to Congress, and then I got elected as the Majority Whip, the third highest position in the House, I got to take a trip. And you, you could do 3 different countries. The first country I wanted to go was Portugal, because I'm Portuguese American. Second country, the White House or the State Department wanted me to go to Morocco because the king was working with the Portuguese in regards to the Middle East. So I went to both, but my request on the third place was the Vatican to meet with the Pope. And so that was arranged. And so I took my delegation, we went to the Vatican, we're waiting in the room, the door opens and Pope Pius XII walks in and, uh, and sits down. We all stand up, of course, and he sits down, we sit down. Now I have the obligation to go to the podium Now, I say a podium is whenever you have control of an audience. It doesn't have to be wood, it doesn't have to be steel, it's just nothing that you have control of the audience. So I have the podium. And so I give the very boring speech the State Department and the Vatican had worked out. I read that. When I get through, I said, Your Holiness, I cannot live with this myself if I didn't say something personal. As a young man, I decided I wanted to become a Catholic priest. I have epilepsy, and I was rejected from the seminary because canon law, established, amended in 400 AD, said that those of us with epilepsy are possessed by the devil, cannot become priests. I think that's very unchristian of our church, and I wish you'd look into it. Now, when he spoke, he just read the boring speech. We then said hello and took pictures and so forth. He left. When he's leaving the room, he grabbed my wife's hand. We're walking to the door. He gets to the door, turns around, blesses her. He turns to me and does not bless me. I'm thinking I'm going straight to hell for sure. And he then says to me, young man, I heard your comments. And walks off. Now, I was a little shocked that he didn't bless me, but, you know, I did what I had to do. I found out 2 years later that canon law had been changed so that those of us with epilepsy could become priests. Now, I will say very aggressively and openly at this point, I don't know if that happened because of me. I just know what I did, and I did it and it was changed. That's exciting for me as well.

Only you, Tony. Only you would say that to that Pope. Only you. And yes, I believe that was it because, hey, who else would say that, right? Only you. Well, Tony, you know I love you. And for those of you that don't know, I have known Tony since 1996. And we have been very, very close ever since. You're a blessing to me, Tony, my mentor. And Tony says, yes, I'm your mentor, you're my tormentor. And I am his tormentor. So with that, we're going to get ready to go next week. Come back for Doro Bush. She'll be on next week. And I will continue to celebrate Disability Pride Month. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. We end with this quote: "Give us the right to be fired," said the Honorable Tony Coelho. And in the words of Mary Brooker, when you go out tomorrow, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11:00 AM Pacific Time and 2:00 PM Eastern Time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.