The Importance of the Vote to the Disability Community

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show today. To all of our listeners in the United States and around the world, you know, we have listeners in 17 countries, China being the largest, but there are some like Iceland with one person. And you know what I say? One person can make a difference. One person can get it going. So thank you all for listening to the show. Gotta talk about my two friends. One is South Korea. Gang Young Cho with the State Department is just an awesome disability rights leader. But oh my God, Richard Roberts. Richard with the State Department, Richard Roberts, who is and has been my friend and disability rights leader, on the show next week with different leaders from Japan. Live show— well, not live, but from Japan, right there from Japan. We've never done this before, and I'm so excited. I am so excited. Make sure you hear the show next Tuesday, hearing about disability rights and stigma and employment in Japan. It will be a great show. Um, which reminds me, how about that Yoshiko Dart? I bet that made your day hearing that. Yoshiko, we never forget you, Yoshiko. Never on any show, because I am determined to remind everyone to remember Justin and Yoshiko Dart. We lost Justin several years ago but we will never lose the memory of what he has done, and I'm going to make sure of that on this show. Thank you, Highmark. Thank you, People's Natural Gas. You know, Highmark has been our sponsor for 4 years. Can you imagine that? And People's Natural Gas, a lead sponsor this year. Uh, Wells Fargo, a new sponsor, and Employment Options. You know, you companies are Awesome, because you are helping me spread the news to people with disabilities across the world that they do count, they do matter, and they deserve the quality of life of everyone without a disability. So I'm so excited. Oh, I'm so excited about our show today because we have two of my favorite people, uh, Kelly Buckland, who's the executive director of the National Council on Independent Living, and Madonna along, the CEO of Eco Elite Group. Both fabulous disability rights leaders. I love them both. But I just want you to know, this show is extremely important. So if you're listening right now and you're thinking, oh my God, I've got to get this out to other people with disabilities, go to, uh, Apple or to my podcast and subscribe Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com, and you will be able to share the show. And you need to share this podcast with everyone. If you are listening on demand, same thing. You've got to share it. You've got to share it with other people with disabilities. It's your job to do that because we've got to get the news out about the importance of the vote. So Kelly and Madonna, welcome to the show today.

Hi Joyce, hi Kelly, hi Madonna.

Well, Kelly and Madonna, as we get closer— and wow, are we getting closer— to the election, I believe it is critical that we get the news out every day, but we're gonna do it today about the importance of the vote. I was so just thrilled to have this show today because this is serious. This is serious. You voting is serious. I cannot emphasize to you how I want you to share this with other people, this show. But Kelly, we'll start with you. Last election, last presidential election, what, what difference do you think what we did impacted the election and could impact the next presidential election?

Well, I think What I'll start off is by saying, like, I think that what we saw last year— well, not last year, 2 years ago, in 2018— the voter turnout among people with disabilities went up 8.5 percentage points. That was the largest increase and more voters than in any other previous 2 midterm elections. According to a report that was done by Rutgers University. So I think what you see with that, you know, the national trend was they think more people turned out because of healthcare-related concerns, and obviously that's a big thing in the disability community, so I'm not sure what, what resulted in the increased turnout, but I think health insurance concerns probably have something to do with it. And so, but we still, even at that, we're still only at 49.3% of a turnout. So we need to get even more people to turn out. And if we— that's still below the national average of, uh, the turnout amongst people without disabilities.

So now, do you believe the main reason for that, Kelly, is a lack of a personal attendant to get you there or lack of transportation to get there? But this year, remember, we have the mail-in. Ballot. So really, there can be no excuse this year. The only reason someone would maybe not do this is if they're thinking, it doesn't matter, my one vote doesn't matter. But what's your opinion about that?

Is that directed toward me?

Yes.

Yeah, I— well, I think there's a number of things that— I mean, even in this year, there's still a number of things that are barriers politicians don't necessarily reach out to the disability community like they do other communities, that leads to kind of a sense of like my vote doesn't matter, right? So, and then you'll remember that the websites when the primaries were happening, most of the websites were not accessible. In fact, all of the candidates' websites were not accessible. So we still have a lot of accessibility issues around even getting information about the candidates. So that's still a concern amongst voters with disabilities. So I think people may not turn out because they're not educated about who to vote for. They may turn out because they don't think their vote counts. And then the vote-by-mail stuff for people, a lot of people with disabilities including people who are blind and people who have motor disabilities, filling out a paper ballot is not possible. So there's still— in fact, there's been a whole number of states in the last couple of months that have been sued because their voting, their absentee voting, has not been accessible. In fact, there's just been a agreement reached in Virginia about making their absentee voting accessible like last week, and they had to be sued to make them do that. So there's still a lot of barriers that people with disabilities face to get out to vote, which is why NCL, along with a coalition of other disability organizations, has really been encouraging people to have a plan to vote, right? Like that, what they need to do is think about all the barriers that they're going to have on Election Day or before Election Day and get themselves together a plan to vote so that they can think through a lot of these barriers and address them before Election Day. So we're really encouraging people to get in place a plan to vote. Like, for instance, uh, early voting in Virginia opens up on September 18th, and which is Friday, right? So I plan my vote— my plan to vote is to drive to the polling place on Friday and cast my ballot.

Well, that's good. I mean that you can vote early. Wow, I hope everyone knows that in Virginia, that's wonderful. And I hate, you know, I know we're all nervous to go vote about COVID Now I did send in for my ballot, but as sure as I'm standing here, sitting here, if I don't get it and I have not yet, you can be sure, you know, I will be there with my mask on, I'll social distance, but I don't care if I'm in line 7 hours, I will vote. I will vote. There isn't anything that's going to stop me. This is such an important year, and I will be voting. Uh, Madonna, hi, welcome to the show. What about you? What are you seeing in your area right now? Are you in Utah, Madonna?

I'm in Utah, but I'm based out— I'll be voting out of Nevada because when COVID hit my kids requested that I come up here to Utah with them. So I'll be going back to Nevada and vote. And, you know, there's a couple obstacles I think that if people can— if they do got to go vote and they're going to be, you know, obviously going to the polls, you know, and they have a disability, you know, just keep in mind your surroundings if you can. You know, make sure obviously you have a mask. If you can get a hold of an antimicrobial, spray it on your mask. And antimicrobials are— they're certain things. You can't go spray Lysol or anything like that on your mask. That's not going to help. But, you know, obviously staying away from people and making sure that you have, you know— if you can wear gloves, wear gloves. If you're going to go to the voting machine, bring your hand sanitizer. Use your hand sanitizer when you're touching things. Make sure that you come prepared with some of the things that you need when you're out there, and you do have to go physically vote. I'll go down to Nevada. I'll probably pick up my mail-in, and then I'll decide if I'm going to send that in or just go ahead and go to the polls and vote. But what I am seeing is I've been helping some candidates with their disability policy on some of their campaigns, which I think is great when those candidates like reach out to us and ask, hey, you know, I want to learn more about, you know, people with disabilities and their vote. One I reached out to— well, I didn't reach out to me, they reached— I didn't reach out to them, they reached out to me— was Patricia Ackerman. She's running for Congress in Nevada. And it was really great talking to her because actually her husband, he's a— he's an ADA compliance expert. And I love that because, you know, um, he has firsthand knowledge with, you know, obviously his wife if she wins. And that will be a real plus for people with disabilities in the country, but not only that, in Nevada. So that was kind of really great to be talking to candidates in Nevada and those places and making sure that their websites are accessible, that they understand how to do that. And Kelly was so right about everything that he stated on people with disabilities and voting. And Time Magazine wrote an article that actually stated in it that politicians that don't that don't address the disability community are going to be far lacking in those votes. And so I think that that's really a great thing that's happened in the last— I would have to say since Obama, you know, we've increased our awareness since Obama ran for election. And not our awareness, but our visibility throughout elections. What do you think on that, Kelly?

Yeah, well, I think we, uh, agree about that, but I think part of the problem was during 2016 election, people didn't show up and didn't vote. So I think it's still a problem. It depends on which year you're really just— you're really talking about. So yeah.

And, you know, we cannot let that happen again. I mean, we can't. And I realize we're gonna have, you know, we have an issue because of this COVID and the fear of people. Kelly, you were saying about special things you're doing at NICL. Do you, what do you and Madonna in your state, what do you do when you hear from people and they say, I don't have transportation?

Transportation is a huge issue. Kelly and I have been saying this forever. I think, Joyce Bender, you and I have been talking about transportation for such a long time. I think that I try to say, hey, you know, Nevada— Nevada is a very rural place, so usually little small communities won't have as much problems as probably like Reno Carson City or Las Vegas may have, but they do have, they do have transit systems. So I mean, it will be limited, but it won't be as big a problem in Nevada. But I try to tell them, hey, reach out to a friend. Are there any organizations that we have in our community that will help you go vote? And Kelly might be able to address that a little bit better with the Centers for Independent Living and how they, you know, how they're helping to get people to the polls.

Kelly, what about that?

There are, Joyce Bender, some Centers for Independent Living that do provide rides to people, and that's one thing that you can do, but I really do think, again, this goes back to, uh, making sure that people have a plan to vote so that they start thinking about it now. Don't wait until Election Day and get in place a plan to vote. And that would include arranging transportation, or if you simply can't find transportation, or there's a lot of people with COVID that really are reluctant to ride on public transportation because there's, you know, you're being exposed to the virus on public transportation as well. So I think there's a lot of people right now who, if they can, they should be requesting an absentee ballot, uh, and having a plan for how they're gonna get the ballot returned and all that right now. They should be planning that out so that they're dealing with the lack of transportation issue now, not waiting until election day and not having a ride.

Oh, that is such great advice. I always tell that, uh, you know, to young people with disabilities going on an interview. I always tell them, plan B. Always have plan B. If you think you could have an issue with paratransit or whatever it would be, and Madonna, you know what that's like in Pennsylvania and other states. I tell them, "Have plan B." And in this case, I love Kelly's advice about planning ahead of time. If you think, "Oh, I don't know if I can get there," or you're afraid, That mail-in ballot is so important. It is so important, and this will be the biggest mail-in ballot, um, of all time, uh, with this election that's coming up. Um, you know, Kelly and Madonna, you can both comment on this, but I know there have been studies done on this, but What is your thoughts about polls, voting places that aren't accessible? I'm meaning, for example, you can't get the wheelchair in or not accessible at the voting machine if someone has a mobility issue or they're blind. What do you think about that? I mean, do you think we've made progress there or what do you think? Kelly.

Well, Kelly, I'm going to let you go first on that and then I'll follow up.

Okay. Well, I absolutely think this is still a problem. Unfortunately, we still have inaccessibility at the polling places, lack of wheelchair-accessible parking, lack of wheelchair access into the polling place, lack of knowledge about how to set up the accessible voting machines. I mean, I think there's still a lot of places that the voting— accessible voting machines don't even get set up. People show up and there's no accessible voting machine to vote on because no one set it up. Unfortunately, that's still happening. So, I mean, absolutely we have real barriers at the polling places that people face when they show up. Again, it's a good reason to plan your vote out ahead of time. So—

Right, I agree with that. And I think calling your polling place and asking the questions maybe that pertain to the type of disability you have and also goes back to that planning that, that Kelly's talking about, maybe calling the, the voter registrar. They're the ones that put those voting machines in, right, Kelly?

Well, the polling— the poll workers at the poll— individual polling places are putting those in place. But again, that's a good reason to— like, a lot of people are going to vote early, and that's one of the reasons, because they can go. But the problem with voting early, obviously, is there's fewer places to vote. Because the number of early voting places is not the same as it is on Election Day.

Well, you know what, hopefully down the road with the, the platform we built on 360 Access, we'll know what, what those places physically have down the road. That's not going to help us right now for what we have now, but people— I think the greatest advice you gave was just making sure that they call and find out, you know, what particular place it is. The good thing about us in little places in rural Nevada is we know every inch of our community. And I think some people, you know, in those larger areas don't know as much about their polling places. Obviously, we do in little bitty communities. So definitely calling in and And prior planning is the best advice for that.

Wow, you know, in the Black community, how we talk about voter suppression, this lack of accessibility is definitely voter suppression for people in the disability community. I mean, how can you vote if it isn't accessible or you can't get in there or, you know, you haven't been able to get your mail-in ballot in soon enough, or you don't get it in the mail soon enough. Do you know what I mean, Kelly and Madonna? That's like voter suppression. I mean, you know, I just don't understand why we don't have a law that says that they have to be accessible. I don't get that.

Hey, Kelly, why doesn't— how does the ADA evolved in this type of— with the barriers at polling places? Is it because sometimes they're in churches? Is it like— I think there's been articles written on this. I haven't really read about them, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Well, there are actually like several laws that apply there and that require them to be accessible, Joyce. The problem is enforcement. So the ADA requires them to be accessible. 504 requires them to be accessible. They are recipients of federal funding. Uh, the, uh, Help America Vote Act requires them to be accessible. The Voting Rights Act requires them to be accessible. I mean, there's a number of laws that do require them to be accessible. Like I say, it's the enforcement part that's a problem. And what we've— the other thing we've seen that's really like blatant voter suppression, Joyce Bender, has been some of the polling places have used, when they wanted to do some voter suppression, have used the inaccessibility of the voting place as a reason to close it, disenfranchising a bunch of other voters. So there's no— there's really a— I mean, there's a whole bunch of issues around this stuff. And then, you know, I need to just bring up that the The protection and advocacy agencies in each state also get money from the Help America Vote Act to take complaints about barriers at the polling place. It's not just physical barriers, there's a lot of people with disabilities who face attitudinal kinds of stuff where the poll worker doesn't think that they are competent to vote and they'll question their competency and not allow people to vote. We've seen that happen. So there's other things that happen at the polling place as well versus just physical barriers.

Well, guess what? On the half hour, we have, as you know, Kelly, our news break, our news break Advocacy Matters, with our great newscaster Perry Jude Radesik, who is the CEO of Disability Rights of Pennsylvania. And actually, Perry Jude, after you give us your news break or any comments you want to make, I'm going to keep you on till the end of the show. So Perry Jewell, welcome to the show.

Hey Joyce, thanks for having me, and it's good to be here with Madonna and Kelly Buckland too. So from time to time we come back with advocacy matters and update your listeners about legislation that we're monitoring, and we've got 2 more weeks before Congress goes into a recess until most likely after the November election. So we really don't have much time for a fourth COVID relief package. And advocates, providers, our family members and friends have really been pushing hard since May to move the United States Senate to pass a fourth 4th COVID relief package that supplies adequate resources to people who are unemployed, for SNAP benefits, for home and community-based services, special education funding, and really— and what I want to focus on today— funding to state and local governments. And unfortunately, these negotiations between the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives still has not yet produced a compromise package. So on September 9th, the Senate tried to move what's being called by insiders a skinny COVID relief package. They call it a skinny because it wasn't even really a $1 trillion package. The House had passed, I think, a $3. $4 trillion package. So the Senate tried to move something under $1 trillion, and it failed. So that absolutely was inadequate to meet the needs of people with disabilities. And as we said before on your show, this fourth package is important for many reasons, and the one today is state and local government funding. So why are we so nervous about state and local government? Even in Pennsylvania, we're very nervous about needing state and local government funding from Congress. I'll tell you why. Pennsylvania enacted a stopgap budget for 5 months. They did that at the end of June, and that carried most government agencies agencies in our state through the end of November on level funding. So legislators got to say, we have a balanced budget, but that's really misleading because Pennsylvania is significantly behind on revenue due to COVID-19, and many lawmakers wanted to wait to see if Congress would supply a direct payment to Pennsylvania to support the budget that had been hard hit by COVID-19. That hasn't happened yet. So moving forward, we do not in Pennsylvania have enough revenue to fund all of our human service needs without a direct payment from Congress. So what could that be? That's that— that's that payment we make. That's that copay we have. For the match for Medicaid, that's the match for our state waiver programs, that's money for special education. So we are very concerned about how the state will cover increase in costs in our waiver program, special education funding, and increase in costs in moving moving the Medicaid program forward, the carry-forward money it needs for the rest of the fiscal year we're currently in. So the stakes are high. Relief is needed. So while there's lots of individual needs in that program, believe me, state and local funding is a big issue for people with disabilities. So 2 weeks are left, uh, and then they're going to recess for their campaigns the reelections, and so they're not going to come back until after the November election. So advocacy matters. What can we do? If you go to our website, we have the list of all of the United States senators, all the U.S. House of Representatives. Please contact them. We've got to get a COVID relief package. If we don't get it by— within the next 2 weeks, We're not going to get it until sometime in December. At least we know in Pennsylvania we need that money. Your state may need it too. And so please help us out with advocacy matters and contact your members of Congress today.

You know what, Perry Jew, just to make it a little clearer to everyone, would you mind giving an example, you know, a real-life example of what could happen to people, to a person with a disability, uh, in special ed or in Medicaid, if you could give an example.

Uh, yeah, sure. So, um, here we are, uh, and, uh, we need a match. We've got to be able to do the match, or we have to have the state— we have to have money to run a, like a families program. The state pays money to the Office of Developmental Programs to fund services that help support families. And they do that in a variety of ways. So let's say the program goes away because there isn't the money in the budget to carry forward this program. Well then that means that families won't have the support program that they've had before, that peer-to-peer support that they've relied on for many, many years. Another example might be if they can't fund all of the match that they need to draw down all of the federal dollars, then it's possible that they're not gonna be able to have all of the benefits that they currently have in the Medicaid program. So these are the things we're concerned about as— and so if you currently get a pharmacy benefit that has a lot of and a variety of prescription medication, they may move to try to limit that pharmacy benefit. So these are the things we're concerned concerned about.

Wow. Well, hey, Perry Jude, hang on with us till the end of the show because I'm going to be asking you some questions about how in Pennsylvania we can help in reference to lack of accessibility at the polls. But first, Kelly, what do you think about what Perry Jude just said?

Yeah, as a matter of fact, we're— this is Nicholas just getting ready to send out a very similar alert on the, the whole COVID thing. I mean, um, there needs to be more relief, especially for people with needs in home community-based services, and the skinny bill didn't address any of that at all.

Wow, terrible. How about you, Madonna? What do you have to say about it?

Wow, that's just, you know, that's, that's, well, I don't know if it's shocking to me, but, um, you know, I think it's disgusting, number one. My, my daughter is a, is a home caregiver, and, um, you know, it's just not to me, of course. I, I say she's my service child, but, um, she says no. But anyway, I just think that, uh, that it's really sad that our members of Congress— I know that my two girls in Nevada, they'll be strong on that. They always are. Senator Rosen and Senator Cortez Masto, um, they'll be in support of that. But I will definitely reach out to, uh, my other senators who I care about in Wyoming and really talk with them about that because There's so many people that are out there that need these services and can't do without them. And our government needs to really step up and take care of the people out there. And so I'm glad that we talked about this, and I'll make sure that I get out there and try to get as much support as I can.

Oh, that's awesome. Perry Jude, I'm sure you were listening to us talk earlier. I wanted to ask you in Pennsylvania, what happens if someone goes to the poll and it's not accessible? What should they do?

Well, they should certainly call Disability Rights Pennsylvania. We have a number, it's 800-692-7443, and we will help troubleshoot that on Election Day. And we'll call the county election director and we'll try to figure out what the issue is. I was hearing— I did hear the conversation, and I think one of the problems we're facing now with COVID-19 is that the old surveys that were done with the Centers for Independent Living and the P&A system and the self-advocates are— you can pretty much throw those out the window now because states and counties have to consolidate polling places now because of COVID-19 and the lack of poll workers. And so they're selecting new polling places, and we're not finding out about these new polling places until, uh, you know, later. And, uh, and so we don't have as much time to go back out and to survey the new polling places. And so this is— now it's a sort of a moving target for us. That's one problem now with the consolidation of polling places and moving polling places. That's one thing. The second thing is the enforcement issue. Kelly was right. I don't think we need another law. Telling everyone you can't break the law. We have laws. We have multiple laws. The issue is people just don't care. They don't listen. And so the Justice Department has been working with a lot of the advocates on the ground. They pick a state. They come into the state. And they— again, it's a snapshot in time. They look at a county, they survey their polling places, and they come up with a settlement agreement for those counties in that state that they surveyed. Except that's only good for those polling places at that time. If a county moves or changes those polling places, then they have to go through the whole process of looking at those polling sites all over again. So, you know, sometimes we just go back to square one over and over and over again.

Well, I wonder what you would think of this thought. I know that, um, since they're always changing and rapidly moving, shouldn't those counties, I mean, have to report that? I don't know if it's to the federal government where they're like on a regular occasion, like make them accountable.

How do we make them accountable to, to be able to report any new polling places?

Like, the reason I say that is, the reason I say that is because I know that when I helped Lambert County, Nevada, do their ADA transition plan for, for, um, in-vote, they had no idea they had to do an ADA transition plan or what it was. And I just learned by, uh, um, by talking to Enda that they hadn't done it, and I helped them do it. But what I'm saying is, is, isn't there a way that we can make them put it into a database, or like they have to keep that current?

Yes, they, they do have to. You're right, Madonna, they do have to report. They have to report to the Secretary of State, and then I believe The Secretary of State has to report that on to the federal agency. I'm trying to remember if it's the EAC or the FEC. It might be the FEC.

So with that being said, then that means that we really have to start educating and working with our Secretaries of State for this, right?

Oh, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Okay, I know somebody I'm gonna be talking to.

Well, that's good. See, that's what everyone has to do. That is what everyone has to do. And Perry Jude, I'll be coming back to you, but I wanted to ask you, Kelly, as we're talking here about the vote, why do you believe voting in this election is so important for people with disabilities?

Well, I, I actually, I think it's important for people with disabilities to vote in every election, but this one, uh, there's a lot of, uh, impact on the services for people with disabilities that's at stake in this election, and that's why I think it's particularly important during this election to make sure that you show up at the polls and vote, and you educate yourself about what the positions are of the different elected officials before you end up— or before you show up at the polling place, so that you'll know who you want to vote for and vote for candidates who are going to support the, um, things that people with disabilities are, are I think it was important.

Yeah, so you know when you were talking earlier and you were talking about the websites that are not accessible, um, the, the can't— the people running right now, well, Vice President Biden, President Trump, Kamala Harris, uh, and Vice President Pence, are— do they all have websites And of course the White House. Are all of these accessible?

You know, Joyce, that's a good question. I don't know that I could answer that right now.

Because what you just said—

I have a whole list of websites.

Well, it's because of what you said. You have to go somewhere to see the positions of President Trump and Vice President Biden. Perry Jude, do you have any suggestions if someone wants to go and see the positions that both have in reference to disability?

I do not know if their websites are accessible, but if someone is experiencing a navigation problem or cannot access access the information, I think they should call their local P&A and let's see what happens.

Mm-hmm. And by the way—

go ahead.

I agree with that. And then the other thing I would say is that the— not only the candidates' information, but the websites— well, you were just talking about the secretaries of state. All of that voter information that's supposed to be on the websites of the different secretaries of state and the local election officials, like the county officials, those websites also have to be accessible. So people should be checking that out. And same advice would apply, they should call their P&A if they're not accessible. People, because the other thing people really should be finding out right now is, are they registered to vote? Uh, and what is the registration deadline in their state to register to vote? Um, because those—

well, go ahead, go ahead. Uh, I was thinking if you go to AAPD.com You probably can get information on the— because of Rev Up, about the platform for both candidates. See, it's just so important to know. It's so important to know what's going on, because you've got to know what you're doing when you go vote. And it's very discouraging to me. If people have a problem. I wanted to ask you, I don't know if you know about this, Perry Jude, but what happens if people have— what happens if people have sent in for, um, the mail-in ballot and they don't get it? Then what?

Oh yeah, no, that happened, Joyce. That happened in the primary election. And so what they need to do is they can track, not be caught off guard, but track the progress of where their ballot is at Votes PA. I think it's votespa.com, votespa.com. And they can enter their information and see where the ballot is all along the way. And if they don't, they should call us, and then we can tell them what to do, which essentially is calling their county elections office and getting instructions, because each county may be different on what the next step should be. And it may end up being go— going to the polls to vote. But each county is going to be different.

Yeah.

This is where you have the problem if they've changed the voting location. Didn't you tell me, Perry Jude, wasn't there an enormous difference in the number of mail-in votes in the primary versus the past? What was it? Do you know what it was?

Yeah.

Yes, it was about 100,000 people or so, maybe 200,000 had voted previously by mail, and now the counties were— almost 2 million people had voted by mail in the primary election, and the numbers are going to be higher.

I know that. And then how are they— oh, this is going to take, you know, we will not know election night who the president is, no doubt about that. I mean, this mail-in vote and the counting the votes. I can't even begin to imagine how long that is going to take, but that's what I'm worried about. I'm worried about people not getting to vote, you know, and not having that plan that Kelly talked about, about getting somewhere, you know, if they don't have the ballot. Of course, if you don't have the ballot, like, you know, a few days before or a week before the election, You know, you're not, you're not going to get it. And as Kelly said, I would have that plan weeks in advance. Okay, what do I do if I don't get this? What is plan B? And finding out where are the, uh, you know, the, the voting— where do I go? What poll do I go to in case they have, uh, yeah, you know, moved it?

So there's a couple things. I think Kelly's right to have a plan. So there's a couple things to remember. Voting is safe and secure. So that's number one. It's all, you know, it is safe and secure. Number two, people can always vote provisionally at the polls. Everyone has a right to vote provisionally at the polls. Uh, so that's number two. Even if there's some confusion about where your mail-in ballot is, you can always ask for provisional ballot, and then this will all— you can always get this sorted out after the election. But vote provisionally. You always have the right to ask for provisional ballot. And, and then, uh, I, I think the other important thing, uh, to keep in mind is that the legislature in Pennsylvania is still trying to work out and negotiate something called pre-canvassing with the governor, and that would allow the counties to be able to open the ballots and at least have them ready to be counted as they come in. That's important. We're keeping an eye on it. And then, as Kelly said, with the— with having a plan, don't wait. As soon as you can, can register and ask for a mail-in ballot, do it. And as soon as you get it, send it back in. And I think that's got to be part of your plan. If you're going to vote by mail, ask for it as soon as possible, like today. You can do it today. And then as soon as you get it, mail it in. And you cannot wait. And I think if you take those two steps, your vote will be counted.

I agree. Well, hey, Kelly, Madonna, And Perry Jude, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you.

It's always a pleasure to be with you, Joyce.

Thank you, Miss Joyce.

You're welcome. Well, you know how important this is. I want to remind you, please share this show. You know, everything on here, I want everyone with disabilities to hear this show because I cannot press upon you enough how important it is to be prepared for this election and for this vote. As Perry Judd said, if you're not registered, you have not applied for that mail-in ballot, it's today that you do that. And when you do get it, please don't put that somewhere Forget about it. You've got to fill that out and mail it in immediately. Immediately. I know this is a different, you know, world, what we're doing, but it's so important. Vote, vote, vote. And as we end the show, you know, I end every show with a quote, and you know what it's got to be today, right? Vote as if your life depends upon it. Because it does, said Justin Dart Jr. Wow. Talk about timely. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at VoiceAmerica.com. Don't you miss that show. Next week, from Japan. See you then.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific Time and 2 PM Eastern Time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.