Vesper Moore, Board Member, the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. This is Joyce Bender with Disability Matters. On voiceamerica.com. I have to start— I know I say this all the time, but I love my listeners. Love you, love your support. You know, right now is a time that we all need to know what's happening. That's why we are the only news source, period, where you can go every week and hear news that relates to you, people with disabilities. Today we don't have Mathis on the mic, Jennifer Mathis, but we are going to have a tremendous board member from Bazelon, and together we will be able to give you the news and tell you what is going on. But thank you, thank you to all my listeners around the world from China, to Australia, to Germany. Thank you. Thank you. Wonderful listeners. Wonderful countries. Thank you so much. And hey, Yoshiko Dart. Shout out to you, Yoshiko. You know I love you. And by the way, a shout out to Richard Roberts with the State Department in Brazil and Gangyang Cho with the State Department in South Korea. And to all my other friends from Indonesia to Japan to Panama to Kazakhstan, I'm so blessed that I was able to be there and meet with you. So today I have a disability, not just rights leader, but international leader, We are so lucky at Bazelon to have Vesper Moore, who is the Chief Operating Officer at Kiva Centers, on with us. And I'm gonna tell you, I know him from the board. I love him. He is so nice, kind, but very dedicated to this mission. Vesper, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

It is great to have a fellow board member from the Bazelon Center on Mental Health Law. But here's what happens. Vesper. People in the United States or around the world, they hear the show and then get in touch with me and say, wow, that was great, I wish I knew more about that person. So now what I do at the beginning of every show is I have my guest tell their story. So Vesper, what is your story? Like, tell us about you, where you grew up, went to school, your family, some of your interests. Let's hear from you.

Absolutely. So my family comes from the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, and my mom came to the United States before I was born, became a citizen when I was 4 years old. I was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, and I would say my upbringing was, was that of growing in a lower-income neighborhood full of Black, Brown, Hispanic, Latina youth. And I was diagnosed with autism very young, so being autistic, and also eventually struggled with my own mental health crisis when I was a teenager. So I think for me, my story is that of someone who who really started with very little, raised by a single mother who worked many hours to support our family. And, you know, had challenges in the education system, had challenges in everyday life socially, and really sought a lot of different supports, struggled with some of those supports, realized and learned about some of the movements like the broader disability rights movement and the broader disability community, became a part of that community and saw my story in so many others. That's just a little bit about me.

Well, wow. As you said, so many like you. What was it like for you in school? I mean, I can't imagine 'cause they never, get it, right? Especially back then. But what did you have to deal with in school?

Yeah, I mean, I would say that being able to study and keep up socially with classmates was really hard. I think one of the struggles in the school system for me was going to the public school system, it was basically these are the options that are available to you. Oh, you can't afford lunch? You're going to have these lunches. Oh, you know, you might have trouble with your studies because you had to translate something for your mom that was, you know, in English and she might not understand. People weren't very understanding about that. That all alongside keeping up with my studies and having dyslexia and being autistic. It was an immense struggle. I think I think I wasn't always understood by my classmates, by my teachers. I did go into special education for a period of time. I was made fun of for the bus that I rode on. I was made fun of for not being able to connect with other kids in my class. So I think school was hard. School did get better over time. I did go to speech therapy, which I struggled with for a bit for a stutter. And yeah, I think, I think over time with the support of friends, family, and really the disability community made me realize that I wasn't alone, that I could lead a full and meaningful life and that all of these challenges that people experience in the education system and broadly aren't really because there's something wrong with me, but rather the environment wasn't accessible to what I needed, which inspired me me as an advocate in some of these spaces. I also think when I sought support for, for a mental health crisis as a teenager, I realized that that system was, was also difficult. I wouldn't be able to receive support without substantial interruption, you know, and I was basically like, there has to be a better way. So I learned about more community-driven initiatives. A lot of the initiatives around that really come as a result of Bazelon the work of and the legacy of Olmsted, you know, to have the right to access community mental health-driven initiatives in the community, you know, that piece right there really, really is at the center of my passion today, promoting those initiatives, continuing to make sure that we are able to lead a full life outside, desegregated from institutions.

Joyce Bender: You know, Vesper, I— that you are a great role model for other people and hope for other young people. I have Bender Leadership Consulting, which is a for-profit company that focuses on the competitive employment of people with disabilities. But the award that I won at Bazelon was for the not-for-profit I started in 2018, the Bender Leadership Academy, that trains high school students with disabilities about the world of work and how to deal with bullying. Because every student, every student, if you ask, oh, who's been bullied, every hand goes up. And if you leave a class to go to, you know, something in special ed, whatever it is. Oh, you're stupid. Uh, you, you know, you're dumb. You're— I, I mean, what these— listen, if you want to make a donation, go to benderleadership.org or go to bazelon.org. You know, organizations trying to make a difference, but I'm going to tell you that Vesper is right on. And you know that intensive bullying leads to mental health disabilities. So, that's why we need more Vespers in this world, which leads me to the Kiva Centers. So what does that mean, Vesper? What are the Kiva Centers and what is your role there?

So Kiva Centers, so Kiva, we are a peer-run organization, which means we are led by people with direct life experience with having a mental health crisis, some type of disability, or a traumatic experience. We work from a place of that life experience to really inspire and change the lives of others. And, and I think some of the incredible work that we do is, so, you know, we were talking about Olmsted earlier. We're talking about the right to access to services in the community. We, we offer a wide array of services in the community and we support other organizations that are looking to kind of implement those services. So we have great resources like peer-run respites. So these peer-run respites are staffed by certified peer specialists, people who have that direct life experience, who receive a state certification through a 60-hour training, final exam. And this, this resource is available as an alternative to mental health hospitalization. People stay in a house like environment staffed by these people with direct life experience. They can come and go as they please for 5 to 7 days. They get their own room, their own space, and it's an opportunity for healing. Sometimes when there is an immense struggle— what I mean by healing, I mean emotional healing— taking a moment, sometimes when you're in a state of isolation or whatever you're going through, to, to again have that opportunity to connect with others. So that's one thing we do. We have community centers and spaces that are peer-run. I'd say it's very similar when we talk about the independent living movement and some of the work of the independent living centers. So these, these are similar spaces where people can be in the community, get what they need, get some of the advocacy and support they might need. And I mean, through Kiva, we've done a lot of work. We've done a lot of work in the Southwest of the United States, across the, across the Northeast, on the West Coast, and even internationally. There are some initiatives based off of what we've done at Kiva. Really, it's focusing on an environmental design that is both accessible and considers a trauma-responsive approach of what could be activating for someone. So yeah, that's just a little bit about Kiva.

And what do you do there?

Well, I work as the Chief Operating Officer. So I think when we talk about my role, it's really sustaining Kiva. Overseeing a lot of our initiatives. And also sometimes there are political spaces that have to be navigated related to some of the issues that we talk about, particularly rates of gun violence, sometimes with individuals with psychosocial disabilities or things like that. Sometimes those discussions are things that I really head up and take care of with Keith.

Yeah, I only have one question. I am concerned that there are people that could really use your services that would not know about you. I mean, what do you, what do you do to, what do you do to get this news out to people?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's been, it's been one of the, one of the biggest struggles is trying to not just preach to the choir, right, but, but really get out there. And I think what, what we've done is we've had We've had a lot of media pieces. We were featured in a piece on NPR, which was a piece discussing 988 and some alternatives to sometimes calling 988. We have offered our resources far and wide in many different spaces. I think we just keep up the good conversation about disability-led initiatives and peer-run initiatives.

Well, we have one right now. And that is this radio show. And listen now, so if you're listening, what is the website, Vesper?

Oh, uh, www.kivacenters.org.

Kiva, K-I-V-A, centers.org. You need to also, if you're listening, you want to tell people about this, go to Spotify, uh, or other social platforms, download this podcast and send it out Tell everyone, get the news out. And with that, we're going to go to break. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Vesper.

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Since 1985, Bender Consulting Services has served as a national leader in advancing employment of people with disabilities, including veterans with disabilities, with private sector companies and federal government agencies. Bender assists customers with achieving their diversity and workforce inclusion initiatives by tapping into a talent pool of individuals seeking professional positions, including those in the STEM fields. In addition, Bender Services include disability employment consulting, training, and technology accessibility through their high-tech line of service. For more information, please visit www.benderconsult.com. Are you currently receiving SSDI or SSI and wanting to work? Did you know there is a free Social Security program called Ticket to Work? Work to help you try work without risking your benefits? My Employment Options is an authorized SSA Employment Network specializing in work-at-home and local job placement in 47 states. Our clients receive a personal counselor to help find the best job fit and a staff-certified benefits counselor for help with Ticket to Work protections. Ready to try working? Apply for free job placement help at myemploymentoptions.com. Everyone has unique abilities, and with ABLE NOW, individuals with disabilities are able to save money while maintaining certain benefits such as Medicaid. ABLE NOW is a tax-advantaged savings program specifically designed for people with disabilities. Open an account online today and start saving for the things that are important to you. To learn if you or someone you know is eligible, visit ablenow.com. ABLE NOW is administered by Virginia529. Follow Voice America at facebook.com/voiceamerica for juicy updates from your favorite radio shows and podcasts.

You're listening to Disability Matters. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Welcome back, everyone. We are talking to Vesper Moore, the Chief Operating Officer at Kiva Centers and a board member for Bazelon Center on Mental Health Law, with me. And I've got great news for you. I was wrong. Jennifer Mathis is here today, so you won't have to worry about just being with The two of us, she's with us, Mathis on the mic coming very shortly. But first, I wanted to ask you a question. You were talking just now about the respite with peer-to-peer, but how does that work best? Like, why do you believe peer-to-peer services are the best? And would you mind, just for people that have no idea of what this is, explaining it.

Absolutely. So I, I believe that it's a great resource. And I think in a lot of ways it can be additional. It doesn't have to be this sole other resource. But I think what's unique about it is when you have someone who understands what it's like to struggle with something similar to what you have gone through, it is, it is of a firm belief that you can have better outcomes as a whole. You can have better social outcomes. Better health outcomes. And what I mean by that is, is that if you're, if you, for example, are recently, like, living without a home for whatever reason, and you're looking for resources, and you meet someone who is working in the peer support space, and they know what it's like to be houseless, and you have that conversation, you know that you're not going to receive the same judgment from that person. There's sometimes, there's a fear of like, I don't want to be like that or go through something like that. Sometimes we say that this comes from ableism, right? But it can come from many different life factors. So that's the value of a peer-run or peer-led initiative. The other piece when we talk about peer-run respites particularly is that it can serve as a diversion, to, to having a significant, uh, inpatient stay on a mental health acute unit. If you, if you go to a mental health acute unit, you might have your medication adjusted. You might have your life seriously interrupted. If you're working full-time, you might have a wide variety of things happen. Whereas in this environment, you wouldn't have that happen. And you would have someone who knows what it's like to be in such a state where you feel like you might need a resource like this. Without judgment, just understanding. And it's not necessarily like you're in this space for treatment. It's just support and care. And I think sometimes we need community support and care, and it does not need to be an intensive intervention of any type.

Well, thank you. I agree so much. You're listening to Vesper Moore, the cheap operating officer at Kiva Centers, kivacenters.org. So if you're interested in how can I help someone, go there, or you also remember you have this show, it's on demand. Well, it is time for Mathis on the Mic with our own Jennifer Mathis. And Jennifer, uh, I just want to tell you what we were saying earlier is that when I talk to Vesper, it's really almost hard to know what thing bad is going on because it's like every day it gets complicated.

Uh, exactly right.

Yeah. So I'm— but I'm glad we have you on. Uh, at least we can center on a couple of the major things. So what news do you have for us today, Jennifer?

So I was actually going to talk a little bit about a leaked draft of the president's budget that was with respect to HHS, the federal Department of Health and Human Services. And that leaked a couple of weeks ago, and people have been talking about it. It's pretty significant. But today we got the— what's called the president's skinny budget. And so I think that is worth saying a few words about first. So what the president's skinny budget is, is a document that the White House puts out that's sort of a preview or like a summary, an overview of what the president plans to submit for a full budget to Congress. This does not mean that this is what Congress is going to pass, but it means that this is what the president is going to recommend that Congress enact. And with the current Congress, certainly there are a lot of people who seem to be doing, you know, what the president asks for. I will say that with respect to this budget document, It would have to get 60 votes in the Senate. So I think it's a little different than what we've been seeing with Medicaid, which is in a separate process, which is called reconciliation. And there they don't need 60 votes in the Senate. So, you know, this is a little bit more challenging for the president to simply get through Congress, but there are some things that are pretty significant and frankly pretty alarming for people with disabilities that are in this President's skinny budget that just came out today. One of them is, well, with respect to HHS, there's not actually that much detail. I'm going to talk a little bit, if I have a minute, about the leaked draft of the budget, which has a little more detail on, on HHS. But what is in this president's skinny budget is, with respect to SAMHSA, the Substance Use, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, there is a $1 billion cut in SAMHSA funding. And there is an elimination of funding for what's called harm reduction for people primarily with substance use disabilities, where you focus— it's kind of like Housing First, where you, you know, the idea is you focus on the person's needs as they are. You don't focus on trying to get people to just stop, just say no, you know, you recognize that people are where they are and you work on making people's lives better and engaging people and helping them engage in the services that they need. And so, and want. And so that's what harm reduction is. It's been very, very effective. The evidence behind it has been impressive and over many, many years, I think it's been recognized, but apparently in this president's budget, it would all— that funding from SAMHSA would be gone. And some other things that are of note for people with disabilities on education, there is language in here in this president's skinny budget that suggests— it's not totally clear, but it suggests that the president might be proposing to block grant IDEA, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. It certainly would flat fund IDEA, no increase over the current year. It suggests also that maybe the president is proposing to block grant Title I, which is I think it's Title I of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, which gives money, federal money, to schools with disproportionately low income in low-income communities. Very, very important, obviously, in our schools. And so it's not totally clear, but there's a lot of language about flexibility and putting all the decisions in the hands of states and in the hands of parents. And so it sounds to most people who've looked at it in the disability community like it is talking about a block grant, but doesn't say specifically what it's talking about, but that's our—

Excuse me one minute. Jennifer, could you explain to listeners that do not know what a block grant is and would do?

Yeah, so a block grant means that Congress just gives money to states and says up to this amount, that's it, you do what you want with it. And it usually comes with, you know, not a lot of requirements. It is not, you know, for example, people have proposed block granting Medicaid and, you know, whereas traditionally Medicaid is structured so that you get people get what they're entitled to. When people have talked about block granting Medicaid, that would mean that people wouldn't get what they're entitled to necessarily, or states would have to figure out a way to do that and they'd have to pay for it because the federal government would, once you hit a certain cap that the block grant has, would say no more from us, that's it, this is what you get and that's it. So that would be how it would work if we're interpreting this correctly for IDEA and for Title I funds, that you get a certain amount and that's it, and that Congress doesn't put a lot of strings on it.

And so— Which is terrible. Absolutely.

Yes.

Horrible.

And it looks like the president's skinny budget would reduce the Education Department's Office for Civil Rights budget by 35%. Which is a lot. We know that they have already— the DOJ has already slashed the Department of Education's budget generally— funding rather, generally, and, or actually I should say staffing, that has slashed the staffing at Ed, including in the Office for Civil Rights, and has closed most of the regional offices for civil rights. And so that's another thing that's in there. With respect to housing, which is the last area I want to hit, there's a $26 billion cut to HUD rental assistance programs, obviously extremely important to folks with disabilities. Housing is often one of the main needs that is unmet that keeps people in institutions when they could live in their communities. Often it's housing that is the biggest barrier to people getting out or staying out of an institution. So this would slash tenant-based rental assistance, the supportive housing program for people with disabilities, which is sometimes called 811, housing for older adults, and low-income housing. Generally. And so another very concerning part of the president's skinny budget. That's sort of the highlights that I wanted to hit from the president's skinny budget. But I want to talk a little bit more about this leaked draft of the president's budget with respect to HHS. Which came out a couple of weeks ago, because that has a little more detail on what is being considered. It's granted a leaked draft, so it's not a final document, but what is in there is pretty alarming. Um, among the programs that would be eliminated according to that draft are the Protection and Advocacy programs specific to people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. So there are other protection and advocacy programs like the mental health one and one for people with other disabilities, but this would specifically cut a lot of the DD programs. So it would cut altogether the protection and advocacy system for people with developmental disabilities. It would also cut the developmental disabilities councils. It would cut the, um, what's called the UCEDDs, the University Centers for Excellence in Developmental Disabilities. They do a lot of research. They are kind of sister agencies to the Protection and Advocacy agencies, and so they do research that supports disability policy, and they're based in, in universities. And then it would cut NIDILRR, which does a lot of research that supports disability services. And so all of those things are tremendously significant. It would also cut— eliminate altogether the P&A program, the Protection and Advocacy program with respect to voting that helps people with disabilities ensure they have voting rights. So all of that is concerning. It would eliminate SAMHSA, um, and it would move some of SAMHSA's functions to other agencies or other places. It's mainly moving it to, um, this Administration for a Healthy America. Um, and so it's mushing together functions of SAMHSA together with functions of other agencies that in some cases are not really very related. Like the NIOSH, which is about environmental toxins and things like that. So it seems really, really problematic and it would cut, well, I said that the president's skinny budget today shows that it would cut SAMHSA by $1 billion. I think it would, that's $1 billion out of, I think it's about $6 billion.

Oh my God.

This is all so terrible. Uh, when you were talking about this, when you say protection and advocacy, what would happen to the P&As under, uh, ND— NDRN? What would happen to them?

Well, that's them.

So that is them.

Yes. So if that, if that leaked president's budget were to become law, if that were to be enacted by Congress, that would mean that the P&A system would be abolished with respect to its, its advocacy on intellectual and developmental disabilities. So all the community integration work they do, the work to enable people to get community services at home so they don't need to go into an institutional setting, segregated setting, so that they can live at home, often with families. All of that would be gone. Abuse and neglect work would stop because the P&As do that work as well.

So, uh, I mean, what would they do?

Work to get people employment, equal employment opportunities, fair housing opportunities. The P&As address all kinds of disability discrimination, education, You know, they advocate for kids with disabilities in schools, and so—

But their money, though, comes from the federal government.

Yes. Well, much of it comes from the federal government. P&As have different funding sources across the network, and some of them depend more on federal funding than others, but for the most part, that's the bulk of P&A funding. So that would be dramatic.

That would be terrible. And you wouldn't know it when you would be a move back decades.

Yes.

When you know that one of the groups most difficult time gaining employment for are those with intellectual disabilities, wouldn't it just be, you know, this is sort of like the least of these I mean, this is horror. Okay, horrifying. Jennifer, I want you on every show. Tell everyone what they should do.

Okay, so at this point, I think it is just important to communicate with your member of Congress because this is going to be a decision of Congress. So communicate with your representative, communicate with your senators, and you can find out if you don't know who those people are, you can call their switchboards. Um, for the Senate, it's 202, I believe it's 224-3121, and for the House, it's 202 225-3121, and they'll tell you who your representative is and connect you, um, and who your senators are and connect you. And so it's important to tell them that these programs are important to you. I've just talked about a lot of different programs, so I think we will be putting stuff out. And to some extent, you know, if you just look online, you will see, I think, for example, the Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities on their website has a couple of letters about these issues, not about the president's skinny budget that I just talked about because that just came out today, but about the reorganization of HHS and the elimination of proposed elimination of a lot of these programs. There's some stuff on there, but if you care about the protection and advocacy agencies, if you care about the DD councils, if you care about SAMHSA and all the SAMHSA programs, you can call your members of Congress and say, please leave these programs intact. Please don't cut the funding and please don't eliminate them. So that's, I think, the primary audience at this point is Congress.

Oh, you gotta do it. Don't sit back, don't sit back and ruminate, don't sit back and think, oh no, this is terrible. Action, action, fall, make that call. You've got to make that call. What we need are massive calls. That's what we need because these things, imagine losing that, SAMHSA, Medicaid, support with IDEA. I mean, this would be, as you just said, going way back in time, going way, way back in time. So you've gotta do something. And Jennifer, I can't thank you enough. We love hearing what's going on, and we will look forward to hearing you on our next show.

Excellent. Thank you so much, and thank you for having me.

Of course, we love having you.

Bye-bye.

Bye. Vesper, I mean, this stuff is bad.

Yes, it is. It is. It's a very concerning, like, trend. And, you know, you think about, um, I, I think about my friend Judy Heumann for some of the conversations I had with her a couple of years ago. And I think about the legal precedent that has been set to protect our right to have access to all of these things. And it's incredibly concerning and devastating. And yeah, I think waking up every day and being concerned about what's going to happen next. You're supposed to wake up with some sense of certainty about what things look like for you. And I can't say that for the disability community right now, or many communities, that we're waking up with certainty in this America.

I mean, what worries me is that people don't know. You know, they don't— people that aren't like in the know, so to speak, listening, that they don't know. And it's going to be like a tsunami hitting them. So that's why, as I said, we all have to communicate. We got to communicate. We've got to make those calls. I love Judy. And Judy Yeman right now, oh my God, I don't even know where she'd be at the White House somehow. Yeah, you know, uh, she would be— she would be fuming right now. Um, she is IDEA. She is so many things. So we got to follow that lead. You know what is amazing? Judy used to say to me, well, the disability rights community, you know, everything— they have everything now. I mean, not everything, but it's not the way it was when I first started. She would never believe that, yes, it is going to be, and yes, we do need disability rights advocates like Judy. Who would ever have thought that? You know, who would have ever thought that? Um, so Vesper, you were talking about your peer-run respite services. How does that provide respite? What do you mean by that?

Yeah, I think, I think, for example, right now, um, you have a lot of people who might be experiencing a mental health crisis for the first time, you know, um, who might be struggling for the first time and have not had a significant life interruption like this before, um, who, who are staying at our respites for 5 to 7 days. They come in They, you know, immediately we start saying like, oh, well, you know, what do you need? What do you expect from your time here? You know, sometimes we have workshops and groups, but it can also be more of a space of like rest and reflection and taking a moment. It's a lot of one-to-one support, talking through a lot of these hard situations. Sometimes it's working on a problem or an issue that the person might be facing, whether if it's finding a job, having stable housing, being able to work through a situation with a family member or, you know, or financially there. I mean, there are so many, so many different struggles. And I think we're a part of that journey. We recommend a lot of these resources. We support people maybe in initially filling some of these things out. Getting these things ready. We advocate with them along the way beyond the respite because we have all of our community initiatives. But yeah, I think right now the emotional support is huge. Just waking up and feeling uncertain or concerned and needing a listening ear, a place to rest, a place to reflect., um, that you know is safe, um, is important.

My message to everyone listening to this show right now: move forward. No cowering. Move forward. Communicate. We all need to communicate with one another, but you've got to pick up that Judy Heumann mantle and call your senator and congressman today. Do it for her. Do it for her spirit. Get on the phone and say, "I don't want Medicaid cut. I don't want SAMHSA cut." Make those calls. We gotta make those calls and remember who you are. Disability rights are civil rights, and we are proud of who we are, and we are gonna fight the fight. To the end. And Vesper, talking about fighting the fight, oh my goodness, you spent a lot of time working in the mental health area, and you've been featured on TV, went to the White House, so much news media, and you've been with the United Nations, including this week. So first, why you? Why are they having you do that? And number 2, tell us what you're doing at the United Nations.

Absolutely. So I think in part my time at the United Nations has been representing the, the residents of the United States to really say this is what we're going through, making sure that we're interacting and working with other delegations from other countries and continuing to have our voice in the international community, um, and continuing to support countries that are working towards no longer shackling children in institutions or adults, moving away from some of those abuses, talking about some of the abuses that still happen here, and some of those cultural differences and the advocacy that happens around that is very, very significant. I think one of the reasons why I do a lot of this work and why I get chosen to do a lot of this work is really because I have a very good perspective on the struggles of people and what's often referred to as the Global South. The Dominican Republic, where my family's from, people for a long time had looked at it more as a developing nation. That didn't have enough resources, didn't have enough of these things. And I think when we talk about Puerto Rico, which is where my father's from, Puerto Rico has a very unique situation as a territory commonwealth of the United States. So I think, and has actually had its own conventions and convenings and all of those things. This week I spent time at the United Nations permanent forum on Indigenous issues. I think a lot of people don't realize that there are people in Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic who are a part of the Indigenous community, like myself. A lot of us are mixed race, but we do have Indigenous ancestry, and there's a United Confederation of Taino People, which has a delegation at the UN. So today and most days of this week have been discussing a lot of the issues of deforestation in different parts of the world, carbon offsetting, and the utilization of carbon offsetting sometimes being like planting forests that might not actually contribute to a community. So, so a company can kind of rubber stamp, be like, hey, look, we did something, you know. So, so some of those conversations. But then at the center that, climate change, mental health crisis, and youth, youth mental health. A lot of young adults are advocating around the world for different, you know, and around, you know, a wide variety of issues. So supporting youth, um, in the international community and leaning on each other has been very, very important. Um, I, I don't think a lot of the situations we're experiencing here in the U.S., um, are completely unique to other countries, but I do think the rate at which it's happening here is concerning. So having that support, having that space, and advocating in that way is so important.

Vesper, I'm almost ashamed to ask you this, but are they listening to you, these other countries, or are they feeling like We don't like the United States. We're not listening to you. I mean, you know, like how Canada has come out and, you know, taken the, uh, anything that says made in the United States off their shelves. I mean, do you have to deal with that? Because I know you cannot say, oh, and don't worry, we'll be able to get finances for you to do whatever. So how do you deal with that?

Hugely. I did a consultation back in 2020 with the United Nations, and I remember I was on this— it was kind of like a panel discussion on different youth disability issues globally. We would share our stories and we would talk about how some of these issues needed to be addressed in the United States. Before me was a person who was speaking, who, uh, who navigated 300 miles in the desert of Syria, and she was a wheelchair user. She was escaping war, right? She was escaping war. And then I was sharing my story here in the US, you know, growing up in urban environments, gun violence, a lot of the things that, that were in my community, you know, you know, growing up. And, and I did I did kind of get a sense of like, you know, here's this American saying this thing again, you know, taking up a lot of space. There's this expectation of speaking English in all of these environments. There's the influence of American culture around the world. There's all of these different things, right? So I definitely feel the presence of that. And what I do is I actually acknowledge that head on. I start by saying, I understand. The role that the United States plays. I understand the influence, sometimes the concern that we're not going to understand a lot of these issues, but the American public in a lot of ways does. And we want to continue to have that commitment and dedication. And I think that means a lot regardless of everything else.

That's good. Yeah, you got to keep on keeping on. I'm so happy to hear that. And again, the answer is not, not to do anything. So very good, Vesper. We admire you. Keep up that good work. Thank you. So, Vesper, you're doing all these great things. Obviously someone impacted you. Who is your role model?

I mean, we talked about Judy earlier. She was definitely a role model for me. She came later in my life. I would say like, I wish I had known Judy sooner, but I've had a lot of role models in the mental health disability space. Celia Brown was a big role model to me. She is an excellent advocate. Did a lot also with the UN on behalf of people with mental health disabilities and started some great community initiatives in Ghana and like just all of this, this is really great work. And I would talk to her on the phone regularly. I would talk to Judy regularly on the phone sometimes if I needed advice. There was another advocate named Sally Zinman. Who was a big advocate too, also in California, important to the mental health disability community. So, I mean, these are a lot of, a lot of my role models. A lot of them really were tireless advocates. They spoke out at a time where it was very, very dangerous to speak out. They, and they moved, even if they did feel fear, they moved past that fear and they kept advocating. And I, I admire that tenacity, that energy, and I'm trying to keep it up. I think right now, as you were saying earlier, Joyce Bender, and also you're such an excellent advocate to, regardless of what you're feeling right now, yes, call your senator, call your congressperson, continue to speak out, show up in the space. We are supposed to have a voice, you know, here, both within the spaces and confines of the United States government, but for the American public, the public we live in. And not for a second should we be silenced or thought of as disposable or treated as such. We need to be able to speak out. And I think the disability community, the disability rights movement, movement, I know will continue to show up in that way.

Yes, remember who you are. You know, I'm a woman living with epilepsy and I'm hard of hearing, and hear me now, I'm not ashamed I'm living with epilepsy. You should never be ashamed, but don't, don't just, you know, don't just stop. This is your time now. You know, for people that said to me, oh, I wish I could have been a disability advocate. Oh, the time is now. The time is now if you want to be that. And once again, Vesper Moore is the COO at Kiva Centers, K-I-V-A Centers. What message— do you have a message for our listeners here?

Absolutely. I would say continue to find your voice even when you feel it trembling. You are not alone when you speak out. You have all of the support. And when you fight for something that you truly believe in, it matters less and less if you are afraid, which is kind of an adapted Audre Lorde quote that's been really getting me by in these times. But yeah, I think just continue the good fight. I think it's great to have Jennifer and folks who can inform the public, but you need to bring it into action.

Yeah, right. Right. You can hear about it all the time. Are you glad you're on the board of Bazelon, Vesper?

Of course. Of course. Bazelon is the premier organization fighting for mental health civil rights in United States. And it is such an important time to be on the board.

It is. Yeah, right. You are so right. Well, thank you for being with us today, Vesper. And we end every show with a quote. And today, oh my goodness, so appropriate. It is during our darkest moments that we must focus "to see the light," said Aristotle. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Get out there and make that phone call. And in the words of Mary Brooker, every day when you get up, when you go out, remember, choose joy. No one can take that from you. Talk to you all next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.