Year-end Reflections on Disability Advocacy

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I hope you all have A great holiday yesterday, Christmas, and the beginning of Kwanzaa. So happy holidays to everyone. You know, we celebrated Hanukkah earlier this month. And well, one of my close friends, almost best friend, she's like my sister, Joan. They always tell me, 'You guys, you Christians, you have the best music. You have all these Christmas carols, and here we are.' And I always say, 'Yeah, when I think of you, I think of Adam Sandler and that one song, I Know.' But I want to wish all of you a happy holiday, everyone, whatever your faith is. And to all the kids that I'm sure opened up a million toys yesterday, everyone. It's such a festive, wonderful time of the year. It is magic. And if you knew me, I miss Christmas. So in my office, there's tons of Santas year-round, not just today, year-round. And then on my desk for the holidays, we have the Santa train, uh, we have Christmas trees everywhere. This is my favorite time of the year. And there's another reason every year. Now, this has been going on for a— oh, many, many years. Before Maria was the CEO at AAPD, for years we have had this ongoing end of the year Joyce Bender, where we bring 3 well-known disability rights leaders on to talk about the prior year and hopes for the upcoming year. And guess what? It is one of the most listened to shows. Every year is one of the most listened to shows. And we're going to start in a minute after I say all my best wishes for the new year to all the country with listeners, even new com— places. I always can't believe it when I look and see another new country. Thank you so much. Thank you for your dedication. My friends from the State Department, Richard Roberts, I can tell you're really building it up there in Brazil because of seeing listeners coming along from Brazil, listening to the show. And Gang Young in South Korea, I got to tell you, the State Department They are just wonderful to work with. And I always tell people, you know, I wouldn't be getting to go to these countries and I wouldn't know where, what countries to go to. And it's the State Department. When an embassy calls them, they get in touch with me. And so if it weren't for them, I would not have been to Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Panama, and soon Brazil again at the beginning of next year I'll be going. But it is, it is because of their dedication to remembering people with disabilities matter no matter where they are in the world. Yoshiko Dart. I had the great pleasure of earlier this month talking to Yoshiko. She is the most generous, wonderful, person, and I mention her on every show, uh, number one because she's so awesome, but also to remember Justin Dart, uh, who Yoshiko lost many years ago. But he will be with us forever. And why I do this is I become very upset that, you know, when you talk to college students or just people, they don't know our disability history. So really, I do this sort of as a reminder to all of the disability rights leaders and my friends that we've got to really take that seriously. That, you know, if we don't do something, here's the question: who will? So, Yoshiko, love you. Hi, Marc, my sponsor. You are so Great. You have— you really, you've been with me from when I started the company. That is how I started, having you for a partner. And now here you are all these years later, since 1995, and you are the, uh, lead sponsor for years on this show. So says a lot about the company and the CEO, David Holmberg, and his commitment to Americans with disabilities gaining employment. So all of you wonderful people that support me at Highmark, that is why you are winning all so many awards, not just supporting me, but supporting people with disabilities from every group that works with you. Once again, I applaud you. Thank you. So ladies, welcome back to the show. I am so excited to have this end of the year show, uh, the day after Christmas and the beginning of Kwanzaa. Just so great to have you with us. As I said, this is one of the most highly rated and listened to shows every year, the end of the year show. So let's start with each of you introducing yourself and telling everyone a little bit about yourself and where you grew up and went to school and why you decided to become an advocate. So please take your time because I have had notes from people around the world saying that we want to know more about this person. So Maria, welcome. We'll start with you.

Hi Joyce Bender and Happy New Year. This is Maria Hello to all of your listeners from around the world. My name is Maria Towne, and I serve as the President and CEO of the American Association of People with Disabilities. AAPD is a national cross-disability civil rights organization, and we focus on advancing the political and economic power of the more than 61 million people with disabilities across the United States. We do this through advocacy on federal policies and programs and have our, our own programming, a lot of which is very focused on building the disability rights movement. Joyce, before I say anything about myself, I have to tell you, if your friend says that, you know, Christians have the best music, you should tell her that like some of the best Christmas music was written by Jewish people. Um, Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer—

Yes?

What did you say?

I said that's really interesting. I will tell her. As a matter of fact, everyone is hearing. So who knew? Another bit of information that I have never heard before. No surprise, because Maria knows everything. But there you have it. I mean, I'm— I guess I'm not surprised when, when I think about it. But how about that? Interesting news.

I know.

Go ahead. Go ahead, Maria. I'm sorry that I interrupted you there.

No, it's okay. I just, I just had to tell you that. And You know, I went to Emory University in the United States, located in Atlanta, and I was an anthropology major. And I share that because I think it's really important for people to hear that you don't need to be a lawyer or have, you know, a degree in policy or or like a PhD to have big positions or to engage in advocacy. You can— in the world of advocacy, there is room for everyone, whether or not you have a kind of 4-year college or university degree, or if you've gotten multiple degrees. And I don't know if people expected me with my cultural anthropology degree to become, you know, a nonprofit CEO, but here I am. I was born with cerebral palsy, which is a developmental disability. It's a neuromuscular developmental disability that affects the way that I walk and the way that I process motion and space and You know, I think I was an advocate before I even knew what advocacy was. Thankfully, I had a mom who really believed that I should have access to everything and opportunities to do whatever it was that I wanted to do. And I was born right before the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So, I actually got a lot of opportunities that many people who were born with my disability did not get previously. But it took me a long time to realize that advocacy could be a career. And I kind of stumbled on it as a career, but I did realize early in my life that I had a gift and talent for public speaking. And so, for a long time, it was like, I know that I'm very good at this thing, but I don't know what careers there are where you can do that all the time. And then I wound up meeting other adults with disabilities when I was in my 20s, and that's when I realized that disability advocacy could be a career. So, I will leave it there and pass it to either Perry or Holly.

I just want to say, Maria, we are, of course, lucky to have all of you. But I do have some trivia. Let me, let me say before I tell you my trivia that Maria worked at the White House during the Obama administration with Valerie Jarrett. And she also worked at the Office of Disability Employment Policy and in Houston in the mayor's office for disability. And we're just very, very lucky to have Maria. She is just on fire as an advocate. And Maria, I'm really glad you said, you know, that you don't have to have a degree in policy because when you were, talking to people around the world. We also have new territory, and that is Gibraltar. So, I mean, it's amazing how this show is impacting people around the world. And we do still have listeners in the Ukraine.

So, you know, wow.

Yes, all of our words matter. What we say matters. And so, I know that you believe that no matter where you are in the world, even one person, you can make a difference. Agreed?

I do believe that. Very, very much so, I believe that.

So, if you want to follow Maria, it's aapd.com. Uh, and Maria, what is your email?

My email is mton@aapd.com, and you can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and X, formerly known as Twitter.

Okay, thank you so much, Maria. Now for my trivia: how long were you CEO before you were on my first— before you were first on my radio show?

A week. I'd been, I'd been at AAPD for a week before I was on your first radio show.

One week. Here's Maria. She has no choice. I say, I'm on the board of AAPD, and I said, Maria, I want to have you on my radio show. Okay, I can't even remember. We went to some place there in the building to have the show, but one week and there she was on the show, of course doing a great job. Okay, well, Holly, you're up next.

Great.

Thank you for having me, Joyce Bender. I look forward to this every year. I was thinking this is our third year together, the four of us. So I hope I hope everybody had a great holiday and is looking forward to the new year. My name is Holly O'Donnell, and I am the President and CEO of the Judge David L. Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law. I use she/her pronouns. I am sitting right now a few blocks away from the White House in the Bazelon Center's office, and I grew up and live on Capitol Hill, about 9 blocks away from the Capitol. So for those folks listening from all around the world, I just wanted to let you know where I am. So the Bazelon Center, our mission is to protect and advance the rights of adults and children with mental disabilities. And we turned 50 years old this year, and we have been using legal advocacy, which means that we do litigation. We also do a lot of policy advocacy, particularly at the federal level, and also a lot of technical assistance. And, you know, our hope is, and what we drive towards is that people with mental disabilities live with, in the community, with the supports and services they need and live their lives just like people without mental disabilities. And I came to this work because I have, I think I was born into a family of advocates and political advocates, educational advocates, and I have a brother who has a disability, and my parents were advocating for him, and I, so that he could go to school alongside peers without disabilities here in D.C., and so I just sort of grew up with it. I'm 4 years older than him, and I spent my career after— I went to Wake Forest in North Carolina, and then I graduated from Brown with a degree in religious studies. So, also, you know, not— you wouldn't necessarily predict that I would be the head of a disability rights organization. But having spent a lot of time in nonprofits and in the government, some near you, Joyce, in Pittsburgh, and also at the federal government, I decided that it was time to sort of do everything I could in terms of my personal and professional work to make sure that we were protecting and advancing the law during a time when I was particularly worried about it. In 2017. So that's when I came to the Bazelon Center, and actually January will be my 6th— starting my 6th year here. So, it's sort of hard to believe, but when I look back at all I've learned and all that we've been able to do, I'm really excited for 2024.

Wow. Yeah. Well, you have done a lot. I just want to say I was at the, uh, celebration, the 50-year celebration. It was fantastic. I mean, it was really fantastic. Uh, Holly, we're so lucky we have you. And I spent time, uh, over the weekend with Tony Quello, uh, and he was talking to me about you and, uh, you know, your whole family background connection and politics and also spoke very highly of you. So my trivia with Holly is I could say to someone, okay, what superhero do you think I met the same night I met Holly and had dinner with Holly? And the answer is Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman.

Because we were at an event It was for Tony, right? Is that what it was?

Yes, we were in California. Yeah, at the opening.

That's it.

Yeah, that's it. Uh, and he is friends with, uh, Linda, the TV, the, uh, TV actress that played Wonder Woman, uh, and she's very close to him. And, you know, there she is walking around everywhere, and I thought, here we have it. Superhero at the, uh, at Tony's event. But that's when I first met you, when I had dinner with you that evening. I want to also say Sloan is really the superstar because she truly is black and gold. Her daughter, as you all know, I'm headquartered in Pittsburgh, and her daughter, she may be in D.C., but she is a Pittsburgher at heart. So that's why I had to give her a shout out. And you know, the Baselon family is still very involved in really everything that's going on and very supportive of the Baselon Center. And what was so funny is that we had, many of us, not been on Zoom. In other words, we had not seen each other in person. And so when I see Emily, I'm thinking, wow, she's much shorter than I thought. I thought she was much taller. But it's so funny when you haven't seen people in person, that people are coming up to me, 'Oh, you're Joyce Bender!' Other board members, because it's, it's just so funny, and it was so great for everyone to be together. And the Bazillons were all there that night, right, Holly?

A lot of them were there, and a lot were actually, um, tuning in remotely. Yeah, there's a lot of them, so the majority—

now this is I am honored to be on the board. Actually, I am on the board of each organization, now that I think about that. So there you go. We really are all connected. And that brings me to Perry Jude Radesik. Perry, welcome.

Joyce Bender, I hope you had a good holiday and you're ready for the new year.

I am, and my trivia here is that Perry can be in many places and they'll say, "Oh, you're Perry from Joyce Bender's radio show." So if you listen to the show all the time, you're thinking, "Wait, isn't it time for the news?" No. Perry, how long have you been the news anchor?

Oh, Joyce, um, I think we're in our 6th year. I mean, like, we've been doing this a long time. Uh, yeah, a long time.

You know, we are the only show, the only international show that every week gives a news report on what's happening related to the disability community, and that's Perri. And I'll tell you what, she does a fantastic job, and I really feel, I really feel that's important that we do that, you know. So newscaster is the guest this time. So, Perry, welcome. How about you tell everyone a little bit about yourself?

Sure, thanks, Joyce. Uh, I think your listeners, uh, and welcome to any new listeners to Joyce's show as well. We're glad you're a part of this weekly broadcast. I work at Disability Rights Pennsylvania. I've been there, uh, 9 and a half years, uh, Joyce Bender. I am from Pittsburgh. I'm the CEO of Disability Rights Pennsylvania, and Disability Rights Pennsylvania works to advance and protect the civil rights of kids and adults with a range of disabilities. And we do that by making sure people get to live in the communities with the services we need to receive a full and inclusive education, to live free from discrimination and free from abuse and neglect. We have a big mandate and we serve over 8,000 people a year. It's quite expansive work we do at Disability Rights PA. But I grew up in the South Hills of Pittsburgh from a town called Brentwood, just outside of the city of Pittsburgh.

Yeah.

And my undergraduate degree is from the University of Pittsburgh. And there I majored in communication and was actually on a full track and field scholarship. I was a— in high school, state champion shot put and discus and was a field eventer for Pitt and was actually an All-American discus thrower for the University of Pittsburgh back before women were in the NCAA. So it's a long time ago I was at—

Wow, I never knew this. Something new I've learned. Wow, that is awesome, Perry. I cannot say anything of that nature because having an athletic background was not and is not in my repertoire, but good for you. I never knew that. That, that's amazing.

Thanks. So, um, I did go to law school. My Juris Doctor is from the University of Arizona College of Law. How did I become a disability advocate? Well, it goes back to the late 1980s. I was a lobbyist for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force at the time and did intersectional work related to HIV protection, civil rights protections, and the Americans with Disabilities Act. So back in the late 1980s and then right 1990, the legislation finally passed and was signed by President Bush. I was there because of that intersection of HIV and the Americans with Disabilities Act. But just as important, I'm a person with a mental health disability, and I have two brothers who played collegiate and NFL football who have CTE, so they do have that acquired brain injury from their time in football. So disability advocacy has always been important to me, and it continues to be a critical issue for me to work on. It's, it's great to wake up every morning and be able to do something that you love. It really is. I feel very fortunate.

Yeah.

Yes, I, I agree with you. Well, you're doing a fantastic job, uh, and also as my newscaster, you're doing a fantastic job. But you know, this time it always goes so fast when I have the three of you on, so I'm gonna sort of mix things up here and move things around a little bit that I was going to talk about because it's very important that people hear what your views are and you have to say. So, Maria, I'm going to start with you. What, what did you see as successes, you know, over the past year? But what do you hope will happen for the disability community in 2024?

This is Maria. Well, first I want to say quickly, um, that I am a very proud member of the Sloane fan club. Um, Holly's daughter, I think she is just so awesome. And Joyce, you should have Sloane on your show. Um, and Harry, I did not know that about your background. Um, that is just Very, very cool, and thank you for all of your—

all of your work.

So, I wanted to use this question as an opportunity to highlight a success and also honor the memory of two people that we lost this year. The National Institutes of Health Um, within this past year actually designated people with disabilities as a health disparity population, and this has been a goal within the disability advocacy community for a long time. Um, when the COVID pandemic started and the National Institutes of Health opened up this emergency funding for health disparity populations, because people with disabilities or disabled people hadn't already been given that designation, we had to get a kind of special label so that grants and projects focused on the disability community could get some of this emergency funding. And One agency had created this advisory committee that actually said no, that they weren't going to give the disability community this designation. And the disability community, AAPD and many others, we really pushed back and got the National Institutes of Health to change their minds. And getting a federal agency to change its policy can be a really difficult thing to do. And one of the people who was so, so passionate about this designation was Andrés Gallegos, who was the chair of the National Council on Disability. And he passed away very suddenly earlier in December. And in thinking about Andrés and his long-term commitments to health equity and inclusion for people with disabilities, I also have to mention Judy Heumann and all of her work on this topic. We lost both of these people this year in 2023, just enormous, enormous losses for our community and for AAPD as an organization. But when I think about the work happening out of NIH and other work around health equity for people with disabilities, like the, the rules that will hopefully happen in 2024 around preventing health— healthcare discrimination for people with disabilities. I'm really hopeful that we can continue to honor their legacies.

So, um, yes, that was really very sad.

Again, I want to see these, um, these rules within the federal government around preventing healthcare discrimination against people with disabilities. I want to see them finalized. These rules require doctors' offices and hospitals to have accessible diagnostic medical equipment. They prohibit the use of disability stereotypes, like the, the perception that someone will have a lower quality of life or someone will be a burden to impact treatment decisions. They protect against discrimination in organ transplantation. Just huge, huge issues. And we need to make sure that this gets finished in 2024. The other big goal that I have for 2024 is making sure that Americans with disabilities are revved up to vote. So at AAPD, we have the REV UP Voting Initiative. REV UP stands for Register, Educate, Vote, Use Your Power. We have 32 different state disability vote coalitions across the country. And we have already created 50 state disability voting guides as well as guides for D.C. and Puerto Rico. We have created a disability candidate questionnaire that we have sent to all presidential candidates so far and are still waiting on their responses. And many of our state rev-ups are going to be doing state-level nonpartisan candidate forums and issue forums. And registering people with disabilities to vote. In 2020, we saw some of the greatest voter turnout ever, and that was because many states actually made it easier to vote absentee during the COVID-19 pandemic. I'm really hoping that we will continue to see this huge increase in, in voter turnout, especially for disabled voters, in 2024.

Uh, Maria, what— give us the statistics again for, uh, the vote, the percentage of people with disabilities that voted.

So, um, there are, I believe, close to 40 million eligible disabled voters in the United States. Um, not all of those people vote. And there continues to be this persistent 7% voter turnout gap between people with disabilities and people without disabilities. So people without disabilities have a 7% higher likelihood of voting than people with disabilities. We know that people with disabilities encounter many barriers to casting their votes from inaccessible information online, inaccessible ballots that are delivered via absentee voting, polling inaccessibility, and sometimes because of things like signature verification, their votes are not counted. So it is, it is so important that all voters, but especially voters with disabilities who are likely to encounter barriers, actually build a plan for how they are going to vote and then build a Plan B and C. You know, I have a mobility disability, and in 2020, when I attempted to vote, I wanted to use a ballot box. And I looked up where my closest ballot box was to turn in my ballot. My wife and I went to the ballot box. The accessible path to the ballot box was completely cut off by construction. And if I hadn't been there with my wife, I wouldn't have been able to vote that day, right? Because she actually cast my ballot, but I was not able to independently vote, which should have been an option for me. And ultimately, I reported the issue to the D.C. Board of Elections and they fixed it. But it was, it was really good that I went with someone. And if I had gone by myself, I would have had to completely make a new plan to vote. And so it's always good to have a plan A, plan B, and C when casting your ballot.

Wow, isn't that so true? I want to say we here in Pittsburgh are so excited to start Rev Up. Again, this is part of aapd.com, Rev Up, and, uh, and it is starting to really gain momentum. We have an intern that's working, going to be working just in that area. And listen, you have to vote, okay? You've got to vote. Don't sit back and say, oh, I can't believe this is happening, and not vote. You must vote. And any information you want, again, about Rev Up, aapd.com, uh, Maria who just spoke, the CEO of AAPD, they will get you any information you need. But people with disabilities, come on, get out there. I like what Maria said about plan A, B, C, and D, because that's really what happens. Perry, let me bring you in on that for a minute. I always ask you this on the air, But we'll start here with Pennsylvania. What should people do in Pennsylvania if they run into what Maria did but aren't fortunate enough to have their wife with them? I mean, what do people do when there are obstacles at the polls for them to vote? Can they reach out to you?

Absolutely. We answer the phone live between, um, on Election Day. And so what's important is that people do call us. And Joyce Bender, we get calls every election, whether it's a primary or general election, of someone who couldn't access their polling place because of a barrier. Oftentimes the accessible entrance was locked, or all of a sudden the temporary modifications that under HAVA people thought, yeah, we'll folks can have a temporary modification to make their polling place accessible, they just don't show up on Election Day or poll workers fail to deploy that temporary modification. So people should call us and our phone number is 800-692-7443. But what Maria is saying and what I've just explained from Pennsylvania happens across our country and it's not okay that after so many pieces of federal legislation that are there to address accessible voting that we still have this as a barrier for people with disabilities today. It's not okay.

It's not okay is right. And, Harry, what is your email if someone wants to reach you?

Yes, it's E like the letter, uh, Paul, P-R-A-D-E-C-I-C, at disabilityrightspa.org.

Get in touch, get in touch. Now here's the question though, do they— if you're not in Pennsylvania and you run into this, then what? Then who do you reach out to? Do you, do you call in and get in touch with NDRL? And do you go to the website and see where there are other, you know, protection and advocacy groups. What do you do?

Absolutely. There's one of us in every state and territory working to advocate for the rights of people with disabilities, including voting rights. So you would go to NDRN.org. That's the National Disability Rights Network. Those initials are NDRN.org. On their homepage to their website, is either a map or a dropdown box that you could locate your state or territory. You'd click on that and you'd be taken to their contact information where then you could click on a link and get to their website or call them. The phone number would be available to you at that time.

Thank you. Maria, did you want to— or Holly, either one of you want to add anything to that about voting?

I would. This is Holly O'Donnell again. I think another opportunity for your listeners is to volunteer on Election Day and leading up to it. There are lots of opportunities for people to volunteer, and I would encourage people to do that. Whether it's rides to the polls or being on the phone to give information to people or being at the polling sites. I know I've done it a lot of times and I know that we're always looking for more people. So, I would encourage people to look into that as well.

Great idea.

This is Maria.

Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, Maria, go ahead.

I'll just add to what Holly mentioned. You do not have to be registered to vote to volunteer. So if you are under 18 or you're someone who's under a guardianship and you still want to make sure other people can get to the polls or know their rights, um, or support voters in other ways, you, you can do that even if you're not registered to vote or cannot register to vote.

Yeah, that's right. Good advice. That's right. Hey, um, Holly, what about you? What are your hopes for the disability community in 2024?

Well, I think it's important for us to just continue. I had thought about this in advance because I knew you were going to ask this question. And I really— I really do think it's important for everybody to educate themselves and to vote. And I think that the more that we are saying this, that the more people will get out and vote. And I also, you know, I hope that people continue to make real connections. I think that in the pandemic, so many of us just, as we operate in this new world, I just think it's so, critical to make sure that we are connecting with our communities. And whether or not that is in person or in Zoom or on phone, I just, you know, I was able to do a lot more of that in 2023. And as I look to 2024, I think we all need to be doing that as well.

Yeah, me too. Me too. I really, I really do think that. Okay, well, Piri, how about you? What do you hope to see in 2024?

Joyce Bender, there have been some good pieces of legislation signed by President Biden that have opportunities for us. For example, his infrastructure plan, the funding for infrastructure across the country. Many communities received additional funding to expand transportation and Amtrak services over the next few years. So I'm hoping that starting in 2024, those spaces become more accessible than building was before for transportation spaces., and that Amtrak moves forward and makes their cars accessible. Maria had talked earlier about healthcare disparity and some funding now coming to healthcare disparity. Well, there are many states that have already studied healthcare disparity for disabled people. A lot of work's been done on this at the state level, so it really is time for states and the federal government to look at those recommendations and start implementing them. So I hope that's starts to change direction for disabled people related to healthcare. The other thing that's been exciting, Joyce, and I hope continues, is that diversity, equity, and inclusion has grown to include accessibility and belonging for people with disabilities. That's a great intersection, and I hope that growth actually increases employment opportunities for people with disabilities in 2024.

Me too. I do too. We have time to talk about another thing that I hope happens, and that is a change with 14c. And I know, Maria, you and AAPD have done a lot in this area. Would you mind talking about that for our listeners?

No, I don't mind at all, Joyce. So, You know, the United States is one of two countries in the world that has a program where people with disabilities are allowed to make less than the national minimum wage. And this is— it's referred to as 14 because it's tied to Section 14 of the Fair Labor Standards Act. That law, it did a lot of really incredible things when it passed in 1938, almost 90 years ago. It established the 8-hour workday. It established workplace safety and fire codes. It outlawed child labor, but it also allowed for certain types of people to make less than minimum wage. And We had domestic workers were allowed to make less than minimum wage, and that decision was really rooted in racism and misogyny, and that is changing in the United States, thank goodness. And then you have people with disabilities, and this program originally started as an attempt to incentivize employers to hire people who were supposedly subpar.

Employees.

And even though our economy has changed significantly, the types of jobs that are available to everyone, including people with disabilities, are very different than the kinds of jobs that were available in 1938. And even though we have had huge advancements in disability civil rights through things like the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act, and we have things like workplace accommodations and technology, we still have people with disabilities in the U.S. who make 50 cents an hour. The average wage for a person in a 14c— working under a 14c certificate is like $3.50 an hour. Many people who work in what's known as sheltered workshops also work in competitive integrated employment where they earn minimum wage or higher. And one of the dynamics that is very true is many of the organizations that employ people with disabilities where they earn less than minimum wage, a few dollars an hour, their leadership, their CEOs are making huge salaries and they get funding from their contracts and from sometimes states to support disability employment. So AAPD, as well as many other disability organizations, have been active in trying to get the Department of Labor to end the 14 program. We have also been active in trying to get the Hill— to get Congress to pass something known as the Transformation to Competitive Integrated Employment Act. Senator Bob Casey from Pennsylvania is one of the greatest champions. And what we are hoping will happen is that the Department of Labor will choose to phase out the 14 program over a period of time so that individuals who are working and getting paid can continue to work and continue to get paid. And the businesses that they work for can either choose to change their business model where their employees are paid minimum wage, or individuals can transition into new jobs where they have the supports they need to be successful. You know, AAPD has done a lot of work on this recently. And the Department of Labor announced at the end of— or earlier in December that they will be doing a rule on Section 14 in September of 2024. Now, we don't know what's going to be in that rule. We haven't seen it yet, but we need to make sure that we hold the Department of Labor accountable, that they issue this according to the timeline that they've said they would, and then actually make sure that there's a rule that we like that phases out the program and provides people with disabilities with the best employment supports possible.

Well, I hope this happens. You're going to have to keep us tuned in. Perry, I'm sure you're following that, and Holly also.

Absolutely, Joyce.

Yes. Yeah, I don't even— where are we in Pennsylvania, Perry? Are there— have we made progress, great progress?

No.

Or what is your feeling? Yes, good.

No, we've not made progress in Pennsylvania. We try, DRP along with other disability organizations. Certainly we have an Employment First Commission. That's the policy of the state is competitive integrated employment, but there are still many people, I want to say 700 people employed in sheltered settings making below the minimum wage in Pennsylvania, and it's not okay. And I think that has to change, just like Maria said. So hopefully federal legislation will happen that phases this out so that people can be integrated with a good job at a fair wage in the community.

You know what, that's so true.

Enjoy.

Yes.

This is Maria. I'll add one thing that is kind of related to what Perry said. So in the United States, 16 states have already eliminated subminimum wage. And I think 6 or 7 states have legislation in their state legislatures to eliminate subminimum wage that, you know, we'll see whether or not it passes. But for example, Illinois They, last year, when they tried to get rid of subminimum wage, they lost by one vote. So, they're trying again and are very hopeful that it will pass. But, you know, we're— while Pennsylvania is truly a tough nut to crack on this issue, many other states, we are seeing progress.

Oh, that's terrible for Pennsylvania. Terrible. Yes.

Joyce, this is Holly. I just wanted to ask your listeners if they haven't heard of 14 before, that you can go to the Department of Labor's website and see the places and the states that do have workers paid at subminimum wages.

Okay, that's good, good, good information. Well, 3 powerful women on the show with me today. Every year, so exciting. I love this show so much. So as we are coming to the end of the show, uh, last words from each of you. Maria, we'll start with you.

I, I'm just always so grateful for this session together. I'm incredibly grateful for you, Joyce Bender, and Terry, and Holly. And, you know, I think I said this before on this show, but I really think that community is what's going to what's going to continue to support us in dark times and is what's going to really help us achieve the future that we all want to see. And so I'm hopeful that all of us will have more opportunities to be in community with one another and support each other in the next year.

Agreed. How about you, Holly?

Well, I look forward to this every year.

Thank you so much for having us and to be with my colleagues, Perry Jude and Maria. And again, I'm just going to say that I wish everybody a good 2024, and please vote and volunteer.

Volunteerism. I love volunteerism. How about you, Perry? What message do you have for our listeners?

So Joyce, thank you again for letting me be a part of this terrific show with Holly, yourself, and Marie— Maria. My message is to continue to advocate for yourself and the disability community in 2024. Our voices matter, your experience matters, and it's only when you advocate, vote, and speak up that we can bring about positive change for our community.

I agree. And you know what, Holly, I'm not sure, did you give— did I ask you to give people your webs— your email?

No, but I can give it to you really quickly. My email address is Holly, H-O-L-L-Y-O, at bazelon, which is B-A-Z-E-L-O-N dot O-R-G. So, Hollyo at bazelon.org.

Okay, you, you heard where they all work, you heard the websites, emails. You really need to follow these 3 women. They are all powerhouses, uh, great for you to follow and/or have speak.— it's something you're at. We're thankful to have them. I'm thankful for all three of you, and thank you for being here today. Happy New Year to everyone. We end every show with a quote, so this is one of my favorite Judy Heumann quotes: If I have to be thankful for an accessible bathroom, when am I ever going to be equal in the community, said Judy Human. Judy, that's for you. Thank you all. Happy New Year. Can't wait to start off 2024. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. And in the words of Mary Brooker, make up your mind to choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.