A Deep Dive Into Stem Cell Therapy | Dr. Joy Kong & Jeffrey Graham

I hope doctors don't give people the false hope saying, oh, stem cell therapy is going to cure everything. This is, you know, this is an end all, be all. Then we're really reducing ourselves to the old medical paradigm, which is, oh, we find A to B relationship. We give you one thing that cures everything. That is so arrogant. You are not respecting how complex the body is.

Tell us a little about your upbringing. Were you in a family where medicine, science was encouraged, explored? I mean, how, you know, you mentioned.

Yeah, actually. I mean, that's another thing that I was very lucky that my dad is a professor. He was a professor at the. One of the top universities in China is a science and technology university. So I've always loved science, you know, loved physics, chemistry, math. And my mom had always wanted to be a doctor. So in my family, she is the doctor. We will have all kinds of questions. And what's funny was we'll have a drawer that's full of medicine. Some are Chinese medicine, some are Western medicine. If you just open up the drawer, there's no discrimination. Everything is all together. And she will ask you, okay, tell me what's going on. You know, oh, I have stomach ache. I have this symptom, that symptom. And then she would just go into the drawer and then she would just pull one out. She will put the right medication out for you. So whatever works, right? We know this Western medicine works for a certain situation, the Eastern medicine work situations, and it really depends on what you have. So I've always had that sense that, you know, each system has its benefits and you're not going to discount one just because it's not working perfectly for all situations. So that's the kind of the integrated, little east, west integration. My home is not exact integration. It's kind of equal opportunity, kind of respect for both systems.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a strong believer in that. You know, I have a pcp, of course, I have a wild health provider myself. I probably feel like I get more benefit when I go see my Chinese medicine practitioner every other month. Just walk out of there and feel amazed. I'm like, oh, my God, this is, you know, that marriage can be so beautiful. So you have lived.

Yeah, but just a personal story because my mom actually was diagnosed with multiple myeloma. And, you know, that's a devastating condition. And I was only 13, my brother was 6, so my dad thought he was going to lose my mom within a few years. That's, you know, very devastating. And she was in the hospital for six months. Everyone thought she was going to be dead soon. And she saw all these people who were on the same ward coming in, you know, walking and leaving on a stretcher dead. And she decided that that was enough. After six rounds of chemotherapy, she said, I'm out here. And then she went to a Chinese medicine doctor, got all these herbs, and all she did was drinking this nasty potion every morning and every night and then doing aerobics. And within six months, everything became normal. And she went back to work because she was a phenomenal teacher. She taught chemistry, and she lived for. For another 32 years. So that was a firsthand experience, actually, the ward, the cancer ward, which is the top cancer hospital in all of China. The attending physician on her ward heard what happened to my mom, actually came to our house, our apartment, and got the formula from my mom and implemented that on his cancer ward. So that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is that still being used today? Is that still something?

Probably, I think there, I'm hoping there's more. East, west, integration, if, you know, something's really helping, because we know chemotherapy, how devastating it is for the body. Right. It's all front assault. And then if you can put something in the body that help the body resist that kind of toxicity and boost immune function, that. That's going to make a huge difference. Yeah. So a lot of respect for, for, you know, the, the Chinese medical system approach.

Yeah, 100%. That's fantastic. Okay, so. Well, I still want to hear the end of this story here. So we finally get a visa. Don't know how long that got to approve. I wonder if that's probably a fun story in your.

It is fun story. I, Yeah, I, I, the visa I got was not the visa that ended up. I, that I ended up having. So there, there's a, there's a twist there. So there's a little slate of hands.

Hey, we're not, you know, not saying. I'm just glad you made it. Glad you're here. So tell us then, what was the trip like? How did you, at that point, you came to. Directly to San Francisco? Is that where you.

Yeah, yeah, San Francisco. And I studied photojournalism initially, but quickly I realized my passion for biology. And then the moment I did research and I shadowed a ob gyn, that was the end of the story. Because just seeing how much she's helping these patients who. And then she was using, you know, medical science and then technology. Right. All the ultrasound machines and, and of course, there's a lot of psychology involved. I saw all these Interracial couples. And I was like, wow, whoa, whoa. This is really fun. This engages, you know, every part of my brain. So that's when I. One morning I was like, okay, even though I thought I wanted to become a professor, I really thought I was going to, you know, do neuroscience and become a college professor. But one morning in that clinic, I just. I thought, this is just too good. This is. This is very energizing. And whether or not I get a PhD, I have to get an MD.

Yeah, yeah, you got the bug for clinical medicine, it sounds like. Yeah, it's fascinating. So the medical school is at ucla, is that correct?

Yeah.

Great. Graduated from their residency.

Yeah, actually just psychiatry residency. Because I, you know, mental health is really interesting. I dealt with a little bit of mental health challenges from some depression, you know, a little bit of mood issues. I think it's from the stress from not eating the best kind of food. And of course, you know, we all have maladaptive beliefs or coping mechanisms. We all can learn how to function more effectively. What I didn't realize was that maybe close to half of my classmates at UCLA are seeing a psychologist or getting on medication. I mean, it's very prevalent, the high stress, high pressure environment. But that's when I realized that something like an antidepressant, right. What I took was Prozac. It's powerful. It took me out of not only the depression, not only the motivation issues, the ability to enjoy life, but also my issue with food because I have a little bit of some binge eating issues. I think that was my way to calm my anxiety and that I struggled for years and boom, that's gone. So to me, that is really a testament to how. Just how much suffering we can relieve by understanding some of what's going on in the brain. Right. It may not be the final answer, I don't think. Just like people were saying that none of us has a Prozac deficiency. So it's not that our body needs that particular substance is because that substance is tailoring. It's targeting certain brain pathways to really get you out of a very, very detrimental pattern. And then you can. Once you're out of the. What I think of as this danger zone, the danger of not living life, the danger of possibly doing yourself harm. Once you are out of that danger zone, then you need to do everything that we're teaching patients to do these days. Proper nutrition and all the testing. None of these were taught in medical school. Everything we're doing, if you're not a naturopathic doctor, if you're a regular medical doctor, we are not taught any of these. We just know how to diagnose disease. So by getting you out of the danger zone, and then now you can optimize everything so that won't happen again. Before I got into integrated medicine, I was still taking Prozac and I was doing fine. I was functioning pretty well. I was doing really well in the hospital clinics. I was fully functioning for psychiatrists and teaching other residents, but I was still relying on medications. It was only after I got into integrative medicine and stem cell therapy. After addressing the body as a whole, then I gradually was able to get to be on less and less of a dose and eventually got off the medic. I think I got off it probably two years ago, you know, right in the midst of COVID Right when. When it's not a good time. But hey, you know, I'm doing better and better. So that's what I'm helping. I want to get patients to. That's the place I want to get them to. Not that we can't utilize modern medicine, Western medicine, but we use that as a tool, is not the end tool, because we need to figure out why you got depressed or anxious or sick in the first place. And then we use the tools that we have to address those root causes, and then we can get you off those medications. That was for really emergency uses.

Yeah. I love that view. That's such a powerful story. To bring us up to where you are today and thank you for your candor and sharing what some of these personal things that really brought you to where you are today.

I think it's going to help a lot of people. I want people to realize that they're not alone and you don't have to feel bad. When I first talked to the psychiatrist as a medical student, when he asked me all these questions and he said, oh, clearly you had major depression. I said, are you sure I'm not just a weak person? He was like, joy, if you think that you can control your depression, then you're very mistaken. It's like having a kidney stone. It's very physical. There's physical basis to it. If you think you can just whale your kidney stones away, then good luck. This is no different. So that really helped me to take the stigma out of it. Just think of it as a brain disease. This is a brain disease that we're.

Trying to help 100%. I love that it sounds like that. Psychiatrist. That was probably a real pivotal moment for you to understand both yourself. And reframe this entire picture. And that word to use, stigma. Both of us being products of the American medical system, we're taught to be martyrs. Just work harder, just do more work. And if you can't do that, there must be something wrong with you. And we start believing that. So, yeah. What a beautiful aha moment. Yeah. Well, let's talk about some of the science that you're really into today. So just start out with a broad view and keep it brief. You could probably talk for an hour about this, and I know you do on your lecturing tour, but can you just briefly summarize for us kind of the science behind stem cells and where that started and where it is now? What?

Yeah, so stem cells really started when we didn't know it was stem cells. So that started with a bone marrow transplant in the 60s. So that's when we can transplant the stem cells that are in the bone marrow from one person to another and promote incredible healing. Right, Healing. Pretty severe blood cancer conditions or even autoimmune conditions. And then we found out, oh, there are stem cells. And we thought only bone marrow has stem cells. And then as science progressed, they realize that we have stem cells all over our body. Anywhere you have. Actually, there's one type of stem cells that's heavily investigated and used these days. It's called mesenchymal stem cells. And that's everywhere in your body. Anywhere you have blood vessels, you have these stem cells because their position in your body is along blood vessels. So they will hug your blood vessels and they will sense what's going through your blood. And they will also sense what, what's going on in the environment where they're sitting at. And then they start to coordinate. If something systemic is going on, then they can send certain signals, they can help the body that way, or they can travel, squeeze themselves into the blood vessels and find their way into where the signal came was at, and then get out and start to tell the blood to send immune cells and certain basically giving your body signals to promote local regeneration. It can send all kinds of signals to local cells, including telling the local stem cells to divide and differentiate and to start replenish the tissue. So they're considered the orchestrator of regeneration. And there are a lot of different kinds of stem cells, starting from the first fertilized egg all the way to the end tissue specific stem cells. So when people talk about stem cells, it's really not a singular form, It's a lot more complex. The stem cells have a thousand different variations from the Starting point. So where do you use it, at what point do you use it, and for what kind of tissues? There's so much nuance, but these days we can tap into a lot of the signaling benefits from the mesenchymal stem cells. So that's where majority of the research is at. And the research has been very active from all around the world. And that's what I teach in the academy, where I train physicians, because I give them data, I give them research results for different conditions. And that has been proven very widely, starting from the most common musculoskeletal. I mean, that's the most commonly used repair, right? Tendon, bone, any kind of soft tissue repair, joint regeneration, and then neurological disorders from traumatic brain injury to Alzheimer's to Parkinson's, ALS, MS, et cetera. And autoimmune conditions. You know, there are 122 different autoimmune conditions. I think it's silly to. To really name them. You know, all these different names is really very few things going on that's just manifesting in different organs. And then there are all these internal organs. A lot of evidence for heart repair, cardiovascular system, for lung regeneration, liver, kidneys, or even fertility. They're wide ranging. So in our clinic, we see patients with all kinds of chronic conditions. And it's, you know, people. You know, people are desperate because the traditional medical route, they can give you medication after medication, but are they really fundamentally making you better or are they. Are they just having you hang on so you can keep taking the medications?

So, yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I want to double click on something you just said, going back to the kind of the tissue specificity. You know, I talk about stem cell therapy a lot with my patients because many of them are interested in it. And so I've done my, you know, my kind of baseline research, but again, I'm learning a lot listening to your stuff online. These mesochymal stem cells. Mesochymal, yeah, that's what we use. I think there's. And maybe you can dispel this myth for us. There's not. When you're getting stem cells, you're not getting a tissue specific stem cell, right?

No, no, not really.

So, and along those lines of thinking, then, is it better to get a systemic infusion of stem cells, or is it. I have people come to me and say, I got stem cells injected in this particular place, this hip or this chronic low back thing, or my knee. Tell us a little bit about what really happens in that process. Because the word you Kept using is signaling.

Yeah. I think if a person is older and has some kind of chronic condition, has inflammation going on, you've got to address the systemic issue. If you just focus on the local area, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get as good of results. So you can still get results, but you could really accelerate your healing when you involve the whole body. Because we know the immune system is really powerful at keeping you young and preventing you from being sick and helping you repair from any condition. So if you can bring the immune system on board, all of a sudden you have so much more horsepower to regenerate. So when you do IV stem cells, the cells the first few organs it profuses, the heart, lung, liver and spleen. Right. Spleen is a powerful immune organ. And if you can get the spleen on board and all the peripheral lymphoid organs on board through the IV route, and then your body really has all these, you know, it's like having an army behind you all of a sudden. Right. Instead of having the local soldiers fight the battle, now you got a whole army from the whole body that can come in and help you.

Yeah. So I love that idea then. So that what they're acting as more is kind of signal initiators for your body's own immune system. Is that correct?

Absolutely. And that's been proven over and over by research. Initially the researchers really thought it was because these cells are going to become local stem cells. And they keep trying to prove that and they keep being disproven. So they keep saying, well, now we know the reason that the tissue regenerated is not because these cells we just gave became the local tissue cells. Because they don't see it. They don't. But the local from the same person's cells actually start to differentiate and replenish the local tissue. That's how it happened. And when they try to label tag these new cells, new stem cells they put in the body, very few, often none, become the local cells. So that's how they know it's not because these cells start to differentiate, which makes it not as important to put the cells right in that spot. Right.

Yeah. Because our bodies innately know when they're signaled where to go because of where that chronic inflammation or that spot that needs to be addressed is that.

Yeah, yeah. The innate intelligence. It's very inspiring. You know, as a doctor, of course, everybody know I was a psychiatrist. Of course later on I got board certified in anti aging and regenerative medicine. But when I first got into the Stem cell field. I wasn't board certified in anti aging medicine. Right. I was a psychiatrist, but I was during joint, you know, people who had to get a knee replacement, I was curing them like no orthopedic surgeons could do. Right. I was, I was getting a lupus patient to go into remission like no rheumatologist can do. So who am I? So that was really fun because I don't have that kind of specialized training, but I can accomplish amazing feats that these specialists couldn't do. So I was like, I'm having so much fun. I've got something really going for me.

I love it. So another question I get from patients sometimes that I think I'm curious to hear you talk about. Is this the idea of how much is good enough? I know there's debate about 250 million or 300 million. What's the ideal load if you're thinking about injecting someone with stem cells? What is pros and cons and where is that threshold? That seems to be.

It's interesting. The debate I think rages on because you've got people with, you know, existing interests, right? If you are, you have a clinic that's, you know, you set up overseas because you couldn't do certain things in the US like growing the cells to huge numbers to make a large number actually affordable. So here you can do a large number, but it's going to cost you $100,000 if you are doing, you know, like 100 million sales, but overseas you can get it at 20, $30,000. And so. But do you really need these expanded cells at that kind of high number? And what I did was I really wanted to answer that question because I've seen people using much less number of cells and getting incredible results. And there are people going overseas getting huge number of cells, also getting incredible results. So what's going on? Do we need this large number of cells and are they actually better? And from what I've seen, is that more is not better. First of all, if you just use more of the same kind of cells, let's say just hypothetically, we're using expanded cells. The research have shown if you give 100 million versus 200 million versus 300 million, sometimes the lower dose actually work better. Not always, but sometimes. So the results are inconsistent. But there appears to be some kind of a Goldilocks zone that a certain range of the consensus maybe is if you use expanded cells, 100 to 200 million. If you use 300, it could be less effective. It could cause the effectiveness to go down. But if you use unexpanded cells, what's interesting was there are research showing if you're using much less number of cells but they're unexpanded, you could have stronger benefit than this huge number of expanded cells. And that's what's fascinating. And of course, so much research have shown even with 24 hours of cell expansion, which means growing the cells in the culture medium, even 24 hours of growing, most of the times going overseas, they will grow the cells for days or even weeks to basically get a huge batch of cells and then they parcel out a portion and give it to you. Right. And they're not giving the whole thing, they're giving you a portion, but they grew a lot. So all of a sudden their cost per batch is much less. Right. They just grew a bunch of cells. The problem is that when you grew all those cells, a lot of those cells, one, they are no longer the original stem cells. Often they've differentiated. But let's not even talk about days to weeks of expansion. Even 24 hours of expansion have been shown to decrease the cell's ability to home in. So to find their way into the target tissue and to engraft to stay in local area. So if you can't find your way there and you can't stay, how are you going to help that area to repair? Right. And then when you check on the efficacy, a lot of times when you have too many cells that are expanded, you end up having decreased efficacy. The cells start to change their genetic expressions and start to, a lot of times secrete inflammatory molecules that can cause problems and they can trigger rejection type of reactions. So that's why in overseas clinics, people talk, Tony Robbins talk about the cytokine storm. Okay. It's convenient to just put a label saying, oh, it's a cytokine storm. It's normal in cell therapy. No, no, I have never seen cytokine storm in native cells that we're using because we're not triggering the release of these inflammatory molecules and we're not triggering the cells. We're not seeing any differentiation. So your body is not going to see receptors or surface proteins that are consistent with the donor and you're not going to mount a rejection response. So, yeah, so these are important things I think people need to understand. Yes, you can go overseas, you may get good results, but you may get even better results and less side effects when you're in the US So. But of course, you need to find out the right practitioner not everybody's using the best products.

Yeah, yeah. So it sounds like what you're saying is when these expanded cells you run the risk of both maybe decreased potency and an increased risk of with that differentiation, more of a pro inflammatory response.

Absolutely. And I've seen that, I've seen that in my patients who came to me after having received treatments from overseas. Right. This is the same person, the same body. They get drastically different responses by taking expanded cells versus taking our unexpanded less in number, but seems way better as far as clinical improvements.

Yeah, well, obviously we can't all come to your clinic. So if there's another clinic, make sure you're looking for a reputable source. Are there specific places, companies that are there people?

Yeah. So that's my mission, to train doctors to make sure that they understand what they're provid and what are the best cells to use. Right. We're using cells. You have to know what kind of cells that you're giving patients and in what situations and why you're using certain types of cells and how are you administering it, because it's really kind of an art form. So that's why I started American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy. We have a certification program so we are doing twice a year in person training. It's a two day training that we, you know, really make sure it's pretty intense. It's a lot of material. And then the providers who have completed the training, we list them on the academy website. So if the patient wants to see somebody that actually is well trained, they can look up on the website.

Okay, and what is that website again?

It's AAI c-t.org so that's the academy website. There are a lot of case studies as well, which is very interesting that's contributed actually most of those are my patients, but also contributed by other providers who have seen patients with lots of different conditions. So I think it's very helpful resource for people who really want to see, you know, what, what, what has people, what have people noticed as far as, you know, various conditions.

Yeah. Let me. I may have done our listeners a disservice by not asking you at the outset here. Where do these stem cells come from?

Oh yeah. So that is another area that I was trying to figure out for everybody. Because there are cells that you can get from a person's own body, Right. You can get it from your own bone marrow, from your own fat. There are other sources too, menstrual blood, dental pulp, et cetera. But you can Also get it from early birth tissue. It's only when the baby is born, usually the placenta, the umbilical cord, all that, you know, cord is cut and that is thrown the biological waste basket.

Right?

You've done rotations. It's, it's, you know, it's gone, it's not utilized. But now we know it's full of stem cells and powerful, powerful molecules that can signal your body to regenerate. And the baby is bathed in these signals, so you can get from amniotic fluid as well. So there are a lot of incredible healing elements from these sources. What I've done is that I was looking at research comparing using a person's own cells versus using the umbilical cord or placental source, and whether or not you're looking at how much growth factors they can secrete, how many generations they have left, how long their telomeres are, how wide their differentiation pathways are, you know, how many different kinds of cells they can become. In almost every aspect, the younger cells is showing much more superior capabilities. So not only they are more potent in all these actions they can exert when they're in the human body, but they're also safer because these younger cells have somehow a better capability at recognizing cancer cells. Not just recognizing them, but sending them signals to tell them to kill themselves. Whereas older cells somehow lost a lot of that capability and is telling everything to grow. That's why direct research have shown that if you put cancer cell glioblastoma in that research next to fat derived stem cells from an adult versus the same cancer cells next to umbilical cord derived stem cells in both cases. So these are all mesenchymal stem cells we're talking about. In both cases, the fat derived stem cells make the cancer grow more and more, and then umbilical cord derived stem cells make the cancer shrink and go away. That's how powerfully different they are. So I cannot in my good conscience utilize a source that I think can potentially exacerbate cancer. It's not going to cause new cancer to form, but we all know we have floating pathological cells and that is part of life. They're going to happen, but your immune system should get rid of them. But all of a sudden, if you put in cells and that tells everything to grow, including cancer cells, then you are elevating your chance of getting cancer in a sense. So that's something to really think about. So when a person is older or have chronic illness, I think I will be doing them a huge disservice if I want to use their own cells.

Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's super powerful. And I think that's something a lot of us don't know. So I think going back to that origin story is super important. You've mentioned a couple of conditions already in our talk today. Tell me, you know, what are the top conditions that walk into your clinic? What do you see the most and what do you believe stem cell therapy is most effective for?

I think the most common will be musculoskeletal repair. So a lot of joint issues, you know, soft tissue, like, you know, bone healing. But very common also is autoimmune conditions, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, multiple sclerosis, scleroderma, sarcoidosis. I've seen all these patients and have good results with all of them. And neurological conditions because these are devastating. And stem cells is one of the few things that are actually giving hope. I've treated quite a bit of autism kids with good results and lung conditions, which is one of my favorite to treat because that's the first thing the cells go to. It's, you know, into the lungs from IV route. And the results are really, really good. I'm actually excited. We just helped a 911 responder to basically become free of lung disease after he wasn't sure how long he had to live. A lot of his colleagues, he was in a special forces, you know, within New York state, and a lot of his colleagues have died. These are young, you know, healthy, right? You know, well trained, you know, very physical, physically active, this population. And he wasn't sure how long he was going to live. And of course his lungs were in bad shape and he was severely, severely limited. But after two treatments with us, he now is sprinting and then he did a CT scan which showed his lungs were completely clear and it's mind boggling. He asked his pulmonologist, of course, I've never seen anything like this. He said, can I say I'm free of lung diseases now? He said, yes, you can say that. So he is the first ever 911 victim in a sense, whether or not it's a civilian or a first responder. First person ever that's cured of the lung disease. So I love treating the lungs because it's so powerful. There are so few things in medicine that actually can break down scar tissue. And this is very anti fibrotic, these mesenchymal stem cells. And how exciting is that? And then we treat. I've treated people with heart conditions, you know, Heart failure and after, you know, people who with heart repair after myocardial infarction, you know, heart attack and atherosclerosis, people with hypertension and yeah, so a lot of heart repair and then kidneys. Helping prevent people from getting on dialysis or even helping people get off dialysis and liver cirrhosis. I've seen just incredible, almost miraculous results with end stage liver cirrhosis. Fertility is really cool. Helping women getting pregnant, helping reproductive organ repair. Of course for men, they want better erectile function and we do that as well. We can do direct injection and I always like adding the IV and helping with testicular help. People who are become free of testicular issues and fibrosis and infections. So very wide range of conditions and we do a lot of anti aging, just helping people to feel better.

Gonna give you an avatar that may or may not be a lot like me. Male, mid to late 40s. If they walk in, they're fit, they're kind of checking all the boxes with nutrition and diet and sleep and all the stuff that we advocate for a lot kind of in lifestyle medicine. What benefit am I going to get?

Yeah, that would be very similar benefits as what I got because I started doing IV stem cells on myself when I was 45 and now I'm 53, so eight years. And I can definitely show you pictures that I look a lot younger than 10 years ago. So 10 years ago I was on the trajectory of aging.

Right.

All of a sudden I got stem cells instead of. It's not just stopping the progression, I'm reversing the process. So that's pretty exciting. And it's not just me subjectively or even other people observing objectively, looking younger. And I feel great. And I'm, you know, function at a, you know, at a very youthful level. But also I have shown in research studies, you know, in my presentation, anti aging stem cell therapy as an anti aging tool. I talked about what happens in the body. Of course they were dissecting rats, looking at their muscles and their brain. When they were given regular stem cells, everything was reverted to the younger state. Their neurotransmitter secretion level, their growth factor profile and the biological waste product, the senescent markers. Everything was reverted the younger state. So that's going to get, you're going to get back your younger self. Love it.

I may. I'm going to be calling your clinic as soon as we're done here. Another question, and I know we need to wrap things up here soon, so I'll be respectful of Your time. What if you're looking at this field as a, you know, kind of, this is obviously kind of bleeding edge of where we're headed. What do you foresee stem cell therapy becoming a first line treatment for? Are there things that you see we just may completely reverse a treatment paradigm for at this point?

Yes, A lot of the chronic inflammatory conditions, a lot of the autoimmune diseases, and I would like people to start thinking not from the disease perspective, even though when disease comes on, we can use stem cells, but if we can start using stem cells and integrative medicine to prevent diseases, all of a sudden we're going to reduce the incidence of chronic illness so sharply that it's going to be mind boggling. For example, if we can reverse aging, keep a person younger, seven years younger than their chronological age, we can reduce the rate of chronic disease by half. So that's what research has shown. And I do believe if we can start regular IV stem cells, you don't have to do it that often when you're younger, you know, maybe twice a year, start in your mid-30s, then I'm very confident that we can slow the aging process down easily by 15 to 20 years. And I do believe then we may be able to cut down the rate of chronic illness by 75%. So that's really where I think we should start, which is to make sure people don't get sick at all. That is a crucial part of the future of health care. And then if people do get sick, stem cells should be the first line, because no matter what illness you have, you want to amplify your immune response. You want to amplify your body's ability to repair and to fight off problems. So stem cells, you know, if you got hurt, you had trauma, or if you have to do surgery, if you got sick with infection, anything that you've got, you should do stem cells as one of the first things that you do, because whatever else you do is going to make it so much better. I liken stem cells as the engine of the body. These are the intelligence, right? The DNA is driving all, the repair, is ability to respond to the environment. Everything else you do, the vitamins, the minerals, the peptides, the ozone therapy, the energy treatments, all these are fuels to the engine. So you're not going to run a good car if you don't have fuel. For sure, you need the fuel to run. But if you put incredible pristine fuel into this dirty, just dying engine, you are really just not going to perform very well. And same thing if you have pristine engine, you put all kinds of dirty fuel, like horrible things into the body. You're not going to do well either. So you got to be integrative, you got to look at the body as a whole. So I want, I hope doctors don't give people the false hope saying, oh, stem cell therapy is going to cure everything. This is, you know, this is end all, be all. Then we're really reducing ourselves to the old medical paradigm, which is, oh, we just, we find a to B relationship, we give you one thing that cures everything. That is so arrogant. You are not respecting how complex the body is. So as a stem cell doctor, that's why I named the academy, American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy. You've got to integrate the cells don't work in vacuum. Yeah. So that's what I think it's going to happen, is that you are going to put some engine in the body, whatever that's going on and that's going to be one of the first line of treatment in the new medicine.

Yeah. Any commenters, any literature out there on a treatment infusion like paradigm, how often you should be getting it just for anti aging purposes?

I think right now, for example, they've done some research in animals and they were giving animals rats, I think every two weeks. I think the younger, the more middle aged rats they were, mice were rats, they were giving once a month, but they only lived for about 18, 20 months. So they were giving them once a month. Right. And or if they're older, I think they were giving them every two weeks. So if you look at the frequency of that and then you look at how long the cells living in the body. We're not God, so we don't know exactly. But your good educated guess is three to six months, a treatment every three to six months. I think you can do more. You can do two every two months or even every month. I don't think is too much, especially if you are older. But in general, I think every three months is a good, is a good interval. The rationale is that the cells will live in your body for about three months and all their signals and effect will last for another three months. So if you always want some signals in your body, then every six months. But if you always want some cells in your body every three months, okay.