Can Stem Cells Heal a Tear Without Surgery?

Everybody that comes into the psychiatric emergency room, we check all these labs, to me, I know most of the time is bull. It doesn't do anything. So we're covering our own asses as doctors. Not that it's going to do anything, but if out of the 1000s of the chance somebody has something really, really wrong, maybe the labs will show anything, but vast majority of time is going to show nothing. So it's more for us, not for the patient. It does nothing. That's why we have integrated doctors who are actually doing much more in depth and useful labs. But if you just go to regular doctor labs, unless you're about to die or, or when something that's really deranged, then you're not going to see anything.

I'm excited to welcome Dr. Joy Kong.

Thank you so much, Zora. It's great to see you again.

You're in LA, right?

Yes.

So did, did you get connected with Dr. Darshan Shah?

Yeah, I was in the process. I've just been traveling a lot, but yeah, I will.

I'm excited that. So some of you girls know Dr. Darshan Shah. We already recorded together. He's in LA, also in regenerative medic. I'm excited for you guys to just to connect. That brings me so much joy. Like, I am wondering if Tanya or Maho, if you've got any questions or comments, anything that you've heard anything about, you want to know not only about stem cells, but anything regenerative medicine.

I am actually in Southern California, so that's good to know. I think it's a labrum tear in my right shoulder and I've done a lot of physical therapy and it mostly doesn't bother me, but it kind of keeps flaring up if I don't keep up with the exercises, which I definitely don't. Is that something that stem cells or some other treatment could. Would that be ongoing or a few treatments and it'll be done kind of thing?

Well, we'll have to look at your imaging. What, what kind of tear? How severe is the tear? You know, all that makes a difference. So sometimes if the tear is really, really severe. Although I have heard, I've interviewed this one chiropractor on my podcast where she had a complete tear and then she used regenerative medicine and it reattached and, and, and she is doing well. She's actually got a better range of motion than the. Oh yeah. It's pretty amazing. So there are a lot of things to go around. If you talk about, if you talk With a orthopedic surgeon, a lot of them probably would say, well, yes, it could help if the tears less than 50%, but if the tear is more than 50% of the thickness of the ligament or tendon, then you need surgical repair. But from experience, apparently that is not the case. People can get remarkable repair, even that very severe tear, like for that lady, even when it's completely severed. So that's, you know, to me, if you just look at physics, it seems like something that's impossible, but it did happen for her. So a lot of doctors would just go right to the local injections to treat local problem. And that's not my approach. I can do that. But you're going to get better results if you address your entire body at the same time. Because your body is not helping you to help the local injury. It's not giving you adequate help because the inflammation, your immune system, you know, sluggishness, everything come together to prevent adequate healing. That's why people have lingering injuries. You should never have lingering injuries. Your body is remarkable. If it's functional, functioning properly, it should have fixed itself within certain amount of time. Every tissue have a different rate of healing. Skin, of course, is extremely fast and the brain is very, very slow. But for something like tendon, ligament, muscles and bones, they're intermediate, immediate still, you know, given a few months, it should have healed itself. So if it didn't, that means your body is not bringing in enough power to repair. And then addressing the whole body is really important. So I think the best results will be addressing both the body, which brings your immune system on board and calm the inflammation and allow the signals to be more clear to your body. I've treated patients with shoulder injuries, rotator cuff terror, bothering this person for 40 years. This is my first stem cell patient. So I talked about that in some of my podcasts. I was, I was very new, but I knew the philosophy is to attack from both the systemic and local regions. And the time I actually didn't know he had shoulder injury. So all he came to me for was bilateral knee osteoarthritis. So he was told by doctors, two separate orthopedic surgeons, that absolutely he needed bilateral knee replacement. So he came to me. He didn't really want to do that because he knew that he's going to have a long recovery time and there's no guarantee also. So I can tell you statistics about, about it later. But what I did was I gave him knee injections and give him an IV infusion. So I didn't know anything about his shoulder injury. This is show illustrates the remarkable potential of stem cell therapy. So me not even knowing about the shoulder, I just injected his knee. I gave him an IV treatment the next day. He said, you know, I slept through the night and I've never, I' slept through the night for decades. Because every time when I shift in my bed, my shoulder, it will get really painful and it will wake me up from the pain. But somehow that night he wasn't woken up. And actually since then his shoulder was repaired without me ever touching the shoulder. So that gives you an idea of how powerful the systemic approach is and how your whole body is important to help you heal a local problem. So a lot of times people do one treatment and they get great results. Or sometimes, you know, everyone's different. We don't know what's going on in your body. Is there toxicity going on? Is there vitamin deficiency? You know, do you have enough amino acids? So all these things play into whether or not that healing is going to be as far as we can push it. So some people may push it all the way through and they are repaired. Some people may be halfway through and they're like, well, I'm still having symptoms, then we may need to do another one. So this is where the integrative approach comes into play. Why I emphasize the doing so many things at the same time of getting stem cell treatments. I make sure people take certain supplements. So we have supplements to increase blood flow to, to give you proper amino acids as building blocks to give you all the minerals so your body can signal. And then there, there's another, you know, and then we can, you know, optimize mitochondria function or help the cells to come out of the bone marrow and circulate. So there are different supplements. I add. There are also peptides that gives more specific signal signaling for any musc skeletal injuries. BPC 157 and TB 500 are amazing addition. And we actually always add that to our stem cell treatment because it's not just good for muscular skeletal repair, it's great for brain repair. For immune system health, the BPC157 is great for gut health, gut repair and the TB500 also remarkable evidence on cardiac repair. So if I give people these two se peptides, all of a sudden we're hitting all these systems all at once. So the peptides I often utilize to target different organs. So that's, that would be my approach. I would prefer to do an IV and then local injection. But of course Local injection will be a lot cheaper. You mentioned, you know, expenses. We are actually, I was just reading a review from a patient saying that our prices are very reasonable and we actually give people significant discounts if they cannot afford it. They can demonstrate their income level. We give them a lot, a lot of discounts. So we try to make it affordable to, to people as much as we can. Some people, one treatment, that's all it takes. Some people maybe three. Yeah, we have to look at what's going on with you. We have pre and post treatment recommendations. Diet is really important, exercise is really important. Activate your body, detoxification is important. So all those things should come together. Then you will heal faster and heal more completely on goal.

I wouldn't need to just keep doing this for the rest.

No, if you don't injure yourself, you don't need to come see us again. Yeah. So it's all removing the cause of the problem. Right? Cause of your problem one is the injury. Right. If you don't get rid of, you know, as long as you don't continue to injure yourself, which is one reason you need to be a little bit more gentle with it when it's healing. You don't want to keep injuring itself. But the other reason is because your body was not keeping up. So then we have to address that. So yeah, these different layers are important to address. Just like somebody with autoimmune disease conditions or even diabetes. So what's the cause? You know, why do you have diabetes and next your friend doesn't have it. So what is going on in your body? So if we don't remove all the causes for that person that trigger them to have diabetes or autoimmune disease then, or lingering injuries, then, then those same causes are still there. So even though temporarily we can get you better and it might go back, which is what I've seen. People, people don't want to do a lot of the work or maybe we haven't been able to uncover all the causes. You know, maybe it's microbiome, dysregulation hormone, you know, we missing certain kind of hormones. We do hormone replacement as well, but maybe we didn't find fine tune it enough, find exact hormone that is really the culprit of, of you know, getting the, allowing the person's body to be more sluggish. So yeah, we, we need to remove the causes and that's why the comprehensive approach.

Thank you.

How do you assess all of these things? Because you, you gotta figure out where.

Where are the root causes that's why we have such a long consultation with patients to really understand what kind of, what are the cluster of symptoms, what's their lifestyle habits, you know, their past medical history and really do a deep dive. And we can order labs. A lot of times we do sometimes, you know, may not want to do it, but we always recommend they may have, they may be already following up with an integrated doctor. So they may already have certain labs. But also it can be overwhelming. Right. So we're literally readjusting life. So if a person comes to me with all kinds of issues, it's really hard to address everything all at once. We may have to peeled onion layer by layer. If a person has a severe health issue. Yeah. If the person is pretty healthy and just have one two things that, that needs to be dialed in and that's, that's much easier.

Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Because when somebody gives you some symptoms and they say a little bit of history, if it were me, because I'm not professional like you, I would be like, well, it could be hormones, it could be thyroid, it could be that, yeah, you're living near a coal mine or I don't know, it could be so many things why that person has those symptoms. And, and like you said, it's like peeling an onion. You just, I gu. What you think could be some of the root causes. And then if that doesn't work, you just, just keep going. I mean, this is what we're all doing in this space is in the biohacking space is when we have an issue, we're like, we just keep going and going and going because you're usually, it's. Your traditional doctors have kind of failed you and you still feel bad even though your labs are normal and all that stuff. So it is.

You know, I used to joke when I was working at the psychiatric emergency room, they call it, was it CYA labs. So we all, everybody that comes into the psychiatric emergency room, we check all these labs. And I know, to me, I know most of the time is it doesn't do anything. It's. It's called cover your ass. So we're covering our own asses as doctors just so that we can say we did it, we checked it. Not that it's going to do anything, but if, you know, out of the, you know, 1/1 of the chance somebody has something really, really wrong, maybe the labs will show anything, but majority of the time is going to show nothing. But if we don't do it, then what if. Right then we, we can't excuse ourselves. So it's more for us, not for the patient. Because most of the time it does nothing. Right. Because it's not very helpful, it's not very detailed. That's why we have integrated doctors who are actually doing much more in depth and useful labs. But if you just go to regular doctor the labs, unless you're about to die or. Or when something that's really deranged, then you're not going to see anything.

So crazy. Yeah. It just seems like a waste of money, waste of resources when you could be a bit more targeted.

It just reminded me because my husband is in the medical field, he's an emergency physician and I'll tell him to his face unless I'm dying. Shut it. I don't want to hear. I don't want to hear the stuff that you know.

So. Okay. Well, Marco, do you have any. I know you listen to like every episode.

Yeah. So like I have. I have two, like general questions I still get. I mean, I understand the concept, but like the application of the difference between the stem cells, the exosomes and the smaller one that now works core cells. So that. And then the other question that I have, and it's something I don't believe the science is just kind of like makes me wonder like these supplements, like the stem region are like, oh, like your stem cells are gonna go crazy. And I understand that they do release, but they were released. So the ones that we have under the same age and the comparison. But like that the whole concept, like I have. Is there a place for you for like the. The, what do you call them, coarse cells?

I don't know if anyone is using. I. I think, you know, it looks like it refers to some cellular components like the nucleus or other organelles like mitochondria that they use research. You know, they can generate these from certain cell lines for disease modeling and therapies. But I haven doing something like this yet maybe that, you know, there's some research, but we're mostly using exosomes, which also will. Will contain DNA. But. But sounds like they're just using cellular components.

The exosomes do also have DNA.

Yeah.

I thought that was the whole premise. Why some people prefer the exosomes is because it doesn't have the DNA. I know you say it's good to have the DNA.

Well, there are different kinds. You know, there's mitochondria, DNA, the DNA, they have a lot of rna, but there are. They do package a little bit of DNA into. So. But they don't have the whole genome. It's not like an entire genome of, you know, within the cells, just not large fragments. So small, small fragments, yeah, you're not going to get the whole thing.

So. Okay. Does that answer the question, Maho? Because I know you asked another question that I was also very interested in in terms of some of these supplements like stem regen that claim to activate the stem cells. I don't know too much about it.

I know more like releasing themselves from being trapped in the bone marrow. So that's, that's the mechanism that they have been looking at of why there are more stem cells circulating in the body when they take stem regen. So they, they notice a bump few in ingredients, I think about five ingredients in the supplement. After taking each ingredient, there's a 20% increase in the number of circulating stem cells. So when you take the entire supplement, it may increase by, you know, 80%. So there's a, a big bump in how many cells are circulating. So when they're sitting in the bone marrow, they're not doing a whole lot. They're just, you know, they're not help helping your body to repair, but when they're actually floating around and, and now they can, they can be put into use. So that's what stem regen getting these cells out of the bone marrow. Because you know, we've all heard about, about bone marrow derived stem cells so doctors can actually drill into your bones so usually at the hip to get the cells out of there. It's in your body. That means there, but it doesn't mean it's doing enough because you're sitting there. So once you free it up, allowing it to circulate now, now you can get some benefits.

Any of your patients, have you seen any?

We, we actually use it as part of our treatment because I want to make sure when I give people stem cells, the cells are not just going to go rest in the bone marrow. So we won't keep them circulating. That's, that's one of the main mechanisms. But to be honest, I think there are other things that these supplements are doing. It's just easier to look at one mechanism. But this is the, I think the drawback of western medicine is that it wants to know a single reason for everything. When sometimes there are many reason makes us feel better that we know a reason. There are reasons that are very complex. The inventor of this product, Christian, he was going around the world looking for supplements that seem to be good for everything. So he was able to get from different parts of the world, something from traditional medicine that they know that's good for everything. So he was suspecting that has to do with mobilizing stem cells, because stem cells have such a global impact on different organs and different systems. So, lo and behold, he found out that when people take these supplements, there are more stem cells circulating. But for each supplement, each plant, there could be hundreds of different compounds. That's all swimming around your body and doing something. Some may be inactive, but there may be quite a few that are quite active. We just simply don't know because we don't have the resources to understand what those other compounds are doing, but doesn't mean that they're not doing something really. And when you put all five different supplements together, this is the beauty of Chinese medicine, right? They can put 10, 20, 30 different things in one concoction. Sometimes you don't know. You know, it could be one compound from this plant interacting with another compound from that, that animal fragment. And now you're creating a new emerging molecule or, or emerging interaction that those two compounds together is interacting with the cell in a way. Now you have a new property. So this is why I believe AI is going to help solve this dilemma, push us to the new stage of medicine. Because just from our human brain, we're losing track is. It's hard to. To keep track. This is why Chinese medicine, of course, they're not keeping track. They're looking at a poetic and grand scale, sensory or more conceptual understanding of what's going on, because it' complex that they're. They're searching for patterns. Of course, AI can search for patterns, but AI can detail the exact interactions. I think that's, that's where we're going.

Cool. Okay. So. Okay, that's interesting that you're familiar with region. Have you interviewed Dr. William Lee? You're talking about William, Dr. William Lee?

Yeah, I've seen him on social media, but yeah, I don't know him personally.

So let's see if, if I can connect you. He talks a lot about, in his book, it's all about food and angiogenesis. And he talks about stem cells, which foods activate stem cells.

He's the one that talked about chocolate, right? Yeah, that definitely made me eat a lot more chocolate.

Yeah, he's got like, his favorites for it. It kind of depends. He's so into history of food and plants and, and how they can help the body heal.

But he.

So he's got. His whole book is full of, of whatever the objective is. I've seen some of his clips as well as in his book, he does talk about stem cells being regenerated. And I'm like, well, like, I wonder how much by how much compared to actually injecting yourself like it. Can you compare those, those two at all?

I haven't seen a whole lot of evidence as far as regenerating stem cells within the body. Of course, when you elevate the, Your body's. The function of your entire body, I assume all the cells are going to improve, including stem cells. Just like I'm, I'm doing a lot more with trying to help optimize mitochondria. I just interviewed a company yesterday. The. They started as a methylene blue company, so best365 and now they have a triple formula, something that you take that really help optimize your mitochondria. And they also have a formula to improve your testosterone level naturally. And when you use this mitochondrial booster along with that formula that boosts testosterone, that adds another about 20% of enhancement, which means that just in improve the capabilities or vitalities of your cells now they can make more, they can make more of everything. So yeah, the good stuff. So I, I think looking at that aspect, if you do all the good things in your body, eating, healthy eating, things that may help your mitochondrial function, that helps your immune system function better, and then all your cells are going to be at a higher level, functioning at a higher level, including stem cells.

What I do like about him is he talks a lot about the foods that we should be eating or that's helping, that's really good for us. And he doesn't demonize foods. He kind of debunks a lot of stuff which is good. And he doesn, he doesn't create this fear of don't eat this and don't eat. Like, you know, he, it's kind of, for him, it's all about what to eat. But it, but at the same time, we have to remember like everything he says, if you're still eating a ton of garbage, a couple of tomatoes, I just don't think it's gonna help in. I mean, I don't know that can offset all the other things.

I don't, I don't know. This is much more complex. Yeah, but, but food, I think is an absolute foundation. That's just, that's an absolute. And it's, it's hard for me sometimes going out to dinner with people and watch what they put in their body. Oh my God, you just did something so bad for yourself. But sometimes I have to refrain, you know, we're out for dinner, right? Critiquing everybody.

It's. It's one of those things. I mean, if you know the person. Like, I remember when, ages ago, when I first started learning about food and sugar and cancer and, and I went out to dinner with some girlfriends who, who just diagnosed with cancer and everything, and she's eating all this sugar and all these things. And I'm like, I was really confused because I was like, I thought, like, did your doctor talk to you about what?

No, I don't, I don't.

And it was like, oh, okay. It was hard to keep my mouth shut. Telling people because you got cancer, like, are you sure? Like. But he's still around. Actually, he seemed to be fine. She's one of those people just, just, she's keeps going, like, wow, considering, like doing everything that you shouldn't be doing. But she's still not in the best condition, mind you, but still here.

Well, sometimes the body can be very resilient and sometimes they just give out. So it's better to give the body as much chance as you can instead of fighting it, you know, making it more difficult.

What is your diet look like in general?

It has always been very important for me not to put junk in my body. Like, even though I came to the U.S. i think what did. I came to the U.S. 1992. And I remember, yeah, just hearing about fast food and how horrible they are for you. So I almost, I, I may have eaten hamburger, you know, as far as a fast food, no more than three times in my life ever since 1992. Right. So that's, that's how much to stay away from it. And the, the additive and preservatives, all the junk that they put in food, I would try to avoid that as much as possible. I think first, number one is to avoid junk. And the, the drinks, the, the soft drinks, the high sugar and additive drinks, definitely stay away from those. So one is to not eat poison that you already know that, that, that are in these highly processed food. And then there are some other zones that would trap you. One I think is the, is the fried food. What the frying process can do to food and how it can be carcinogenic. And, you know, it changes a lot of things. So, and not to mention oil, but. So I try to avoid fried food. And then the, the oil itself, the fat, that's something that, that's become a lot more. People have a lot more awareness about the bad oils, seed oils, just in the last, I don't know, 56 years. Because people weren't talking about the seed oils before they were damaging their cell membranes. They're damaging. They're causing a lot of inflammation.

You know, a lot of people now are coming out saying, it's true. There's not enough science. And my philosophy is like, if I'm going to eat bad food, I want to know that I'm eating bad food.

Right.

But my problem is that, like, for the most part, I try to eat the food as closely as to where it came from. And when you're talking about something that leach and deodorized in order for me to consume, maybe it's not as bad as people make it out to be, but for me, it's a hard pass. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that's smart.

When I was living in Hong Kong, I do remember everybody was. Was saying, you know, we. We eat way too much fried food food in Hong Kong. I'm talking about Chinese food.

It's.

Oh, it's so filly. Oh, there's so much fat. Oh, it's so deep fried. But every time that every restaurant, you'd.

Be like, oil here. Yeah, yeah, I'll be there in a few days. Yeah, I'll find out. Yes.

Oh, you've never been to Hong Kong.

I have, I have, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

You're going in a few days?

Yeah. Christmas in Hong Kong.

Why? Where are you from?

You said that you moved here in 92 too, from Beijing.

Yeah.

Okay. Because I moved here in 93, so I was 16 or 17. I'm gonna. And I always say the story. When I moved here, my boobs grew.

From where?

From your way? I moved around a lot. But. But. And then my husband was in the military and he was deployed in Colombia. And he be like, oh, my gosh, baby, you have to eat this food. Oh, my gosh, it tastes so good. And I'm like, yeah, because it's real food. Interesting. So the difference in the flavors. And I was like, yeah, yeah, it's how you're meant to eat food.

Interesting. So the hormones in. In the food since.

I don't know, since 30 years now for the US and when I. Whenever I go back when I was. Especially when I was out for. For a while in the very beginning, I. I do. I do remember being surprised. Like, why does the food taste so weird in the U.S. like, I got already accustomed. And I said, everything is sweet. Like, even the bread was sweet. Like, you get bread in the restaurant. And I'm like, it's sw. Sweet. Like, it seemed like Sugar wasn't everything interesting. Yeah. But I did. It has this, it has this. Yeah. Artificial taste to a lot of, a lot of things that are just. And I'm talking about when I would go to like the Cheesecake Factory and stuff.

Yeah.

You know, if you go to a nice high end quality restaurant, you don't really taste it like that, but it is.

Yeah. I'll tell you a story. Me and actually Dr. Pompa and a few friends. Dr. Pompa is very well known for detoxification, you know. Yeah. Feeding people about toxicity. And we went to this Michelin star Italian restaurant in, in Los Angeles and we asked them to, you know, that we, we don't eat seed oil. So can they tell us which dish can we substitute? And so, and then we asked them what kind of oil they use. So of course it's mostly seed oil. So we asked a waiter, can we substitute that with olive oil oil or butter? And. And he came back with a menu where all the things that cannot be substituted or crossed out, basically the entire entree section was crossed out. And so I think we ended up ordering some salads and some, some pasta. So those were, which is shocking.

Right.

And the waiter was getting a little snippy with us saying something like we said, well, but this is an Italian restaurant. Don't you guys use olive oil? Don't you like, why? And, and he said, but you're. Yeah, that was so sad. That you go to, you think that you're going to a high end Italian restaurant doesn't mean that you're safe.

Yeah, that's so terrible.

No, And a lot of restaurants don't even carry olive oil because I've started carrying my own salad dressing and my kids get worse. I want to do that, but I'm like, I mean, how difficult is it to just have some olive oil in a restaurant? It's. It's crazy. I don't, I don't know if we.

Don'T have that problem. And then on, I don't know.

I don't know how it is in Europe, Zara. But like, you probably see it in LA as well. But the part that burns me the most about the food company is that they're so good about selling the stuff because even, even when you think you're buying good food, you really look at the ingredients and it's not. So I have a problem with them trying to sell you something as good when it is not. I mean, if you're gonna sell junk food, sell it. You know what I mean? Like okay. At least I know what I'm consuming. But don't try to trick me that I'm consuming something healthy when it's not.

Oh.

In Europe, we have this A, B, C, D, E, like, label. So A is green and E is red. Like A is good. E is bad.

No, that's why I scan everything.

Helps people make healthier choices in general. So they can kind of.

Can you trust that label, though?

No, because, like, an avocado or something that has fat would be labeled E. You know, I'm like, that doesn't. That's no good. Like, I don't believe this system. In some ways, maybe it helps. I wouldn't look at that abcd. I would turn the bottle around, read the ingredients, and that's how I do it. But people don't have education.

Back to your question about what I eat. I think besides not eating junk, the only other thing I try is to. I try to eat a little bit more protein and avoid carbs if I can. A lot of empty carbs. So, you know, of course, from vegetables is fine. If it's complex carb. From whole. Whole, you know, high carb vegetables, you know, potato, not as much. Maybe sweet potato squash. You know, I may eat a little bit quinoa, a little bit. But I try to not have so much carb. There's so much carbon in. In the world. I don't think some people may be able to process that much better. But I have tried the. The cgm, right. Continuous glucose monitor just for.

Oh, we love the.

It's amazing, right? It. It kind of unveils the. The. The secret responses that your body, you know, it's producing all the time. You're just not aware. So definitely rice is a huge trigger. And of course, I grew up on that. No wonder I was struggling with weight as a young kid, you know, hungry, eating and then having trouble. Yeah, just my. My metabolism. Probably too much insulin was secreted. So that makes controlling weight a lot difficult. Yeah, no, I'd eat whatever I want. I mean, it's so freeing and so incredible because I think I developed a relationship with food where food became scary because I was afraid, you know, like, oh, I'm good when I eat. So instead of just enjoying the moment and I'm wondering, oh, my God, you know, this food is going in, it's gonna make me put on weight and. And I have to starve myself. So just a really, really. Unfortunately, if you don't know how your body's responding to things, then you're. You're. Struggling so, so now it's just like eating, just, you just enjoy it, but you just know what to avoid for your body.

Yeah.

Oh, this one, this one is like, we love this question. What supplements do you take?

I'm a supplement supplement person. Yeah, I know I don't agree with people who take hundreds. I know it's really expensive, but, but I, I know plenty of BioHackers take between 50 to 100 supplements and, and they're very proud of it. But I've also seen people who claim themselves to be, you know, the most biohacked person in the world to have all kinds of issues. Problems is probably because even though you think you've got these doctors who are formulating things for you, it doesn't mean that they understand everything of what's going on between these supplements. You're dumping a lot of high doses of have different molecular structure in your body. You don't know exactly how each one is interacting with your body and each interact with him, with each other. And you also know, you don't know what kind of fillers there are. You know, all the other things that are put in these pills. So you just opened yourself up to a lot of potential issues. So overwhelming your body with one particular bioactive, you know, molecule doesn't mean that it's, it, it's, it's going to be a good thing. Could, could be too much of one thing. So my tendency is just to very tailored, very careful addition of a few things that I think may be, may be helpful for me in general. Yeah, I used to take as many as 30 supplements and then I just kind of ditched it. I did that for, for a couple years and I just, you know, I didn't like that. So now I take definitely less than 10 supplements. All the ones that I tell my patients to take, I take because those are foundational. So the nitric oxide help with blood, blood perfusion, I take it sometimes the perfect amino, giving me enough of the essential amino acids because sometimes not only getting enough protein is an issue, but your digestion and your, your nutrient absorption possibly are not ideal. That's why most people have amino acid deficiencies. They are deficient in some kind of essential amino acid. So I take that, I take fulvic acid, which really is the recycling of nutrients within plants. And that should have been in food, but food these days are depleted. So I need to add something extra.

And then how, how do you take them? What products? Product?

Oh, I use Mother Earth Labs. So that's the, the product which came from a layer of the earth that was from the crustacean period. And where they extract the product was actually at an area where there's river flowing into the sea. So there's a commingling of sea water and fresh water. And then. Which means they're a lot higher mineral content. So that's, that's the product I use. You know, it's pristine and it's high mineral content. And then on top of it, I use a product from the. The best365, which is really great for mitochondria rejuvenation. So help with mitochondria health. And that powers everything. And what is it?

The best 65.

It's called best 365. So that's a company name. But the, the products, they have a few different products. Most of them has methylene do in it, but a lot of some don't either. Don't. So I take what's called Neuropro to help protect my brain because that's something I think.

Yeah, we want to keep.

We all are, you know, a little apprehensive about how our brain is and where it's going and how long we can keep it sharp. So that has methane blue. Have, you know, a few other things that help with penetration tissue delivery. So that I take that another product is called Brain Fog, which has this delivery system that's really, really pretty amazing, oxygenates your system and is antimicrobial. It breaks down biofilm and then it puts whatever you're putting in the body deeper into your tissue. You can put it topically or you can ingest it and then allows better absorption.

So yeah, it's a clean blue with vitamin C and mineral oxide solution.

Exactly. The mineral oxide solution. That's the, the, a lot of the magic that allows for deep penetration. And now they've come up with other things that includes, for example, this, this triple mitochondria rejuvenator, I guess, has spermidine in it. So that helps you remove. Right. You want to remove the bad things on top of giving you important elements. It has nad, has pqq, so it opens up the cells more for energy. And NAD can be, you know, the, the source of cellular energy, I mean, the mitochondrial energy. So all these things together. And at night, a formula to help you enhance your sleep. So it's kind of like a, a triple combination. So you want better rest and then better absorption of certain things. They have a few vitamins in there as well. So. So that, that's what I, what I Take and let me see what else. Yeah.

If you take any of the regular, like vitamin D, K, magnesium, any of those. Are you.

I'm taking, yeah. Periodically I think I, I kind of cycle on and off. Vitamin D, sometimes B complex, sometimes melatonin. I take quite a bit because I like the antioxidant properties and, and it's immunocent, very important hormone. And lithium. Gym or rotate. Sometimes I take it for. Yeah. Mood stabilization and helping with. Yeah. Brain health.

You know.

I spent about 30 years taking antidepressants with absolutely no positive effect and I finally ditched it and all I take now is lithium.

Really?

Yeah. And I feel a lot better. I mean lithium oritate not the prescription.

Yeah, right, exactly. And I, I was trained as a psychiatrist so I wrote plenty of lithium carbonate to people.

So you might be the perfect person. Is, does it come from the same thing?

Was it different? There's a different compound because it has different. It's combined with, you know, a different, the molecule is different. So instead of a, you know, the, the carbonate, you know, the, the carbon fragments, CO3 now has the orotate.

Gotcha.

Yeah. Mole molecule attached to it. So that allows. Is just vastly enhanced penetration to the brain. So you don't really need a whole lot. So you like, you take 10, right, 10 milligrams, you know, most 20, you just, you don't take very much. But lithium, we start people at 300 milligrams so you, that and then you go all the way up to 1200 or even 1500 milligrams so you have a massive dose. That's why we had to check people's kidneys all the time because they may have kidney damage. So it's, it's, it's, it doesn't make sense. Right. If you know something that can bring you this beneficial molecule into the brain, why blast your entire body? High dose with the potential to damage organs. So, so lithium. Yeah. And I used to take antidepressants. A lot of medical school classmates were actually on antidepressants. I didn't know until we started talking to each other. So that's at ucla. It's just so funny. Yeah. High stress, us not eating healthy, the kind of lifestyle we had as medical students, the stress of being scrutinized and, and, and the volume of information we have to know and, and the, the, the rush, rushing everywhere and being on different wards, having to show up at 5:00am to, you know, to pre round all the patients and then sometimes, you know, this, we may be in a rotation that goes really late again. There are rotations, surgical rotations. We don't finish until after 8pm so by the time I get home and try to eat something, it's just stuff something in my face and then next morning wake up at 4am so how, how are you taking care of your body? How you. I was not exercising. I gained weight. It just is a miserable way of becoming a doctor. So. Yeah, so yeah, so I was on antidepressant and then until, until I started doing all these anti aging. Aging therapies because you know, you, you work as a doctor which can be stressful as well. And so more and more stress. What do, what do we do in Western medicine? We increase the dose. So then I got to the maximum of what I was taking and that's it. Like where do you go? You have to add another medication. So I didn't want to add. Then you just suffer a little bit. Right. You don't. Until I started optimizing my nutrition, hormones and detoxification stem cells. Cells. So this has been. Yeah, it's been what, at least four or five years that I haven't needed any medication. That's after taking it for at least 15 years. I'm happier than, than ever. So. Yeah, there's a lot, a lot to it though. And for. If we're talking about something like depression, I think psychology is important, is not just physical. Right. Psychology, how you deal with, with things happening in your life, how you look at things, frame things and how do you, how much of your reactions was because of past trauma. If you don't deal with that, that's always going to be there giving you some kind of automatic reaction that's not beneficial. And then also you need to align yourself spiritually. You need to understand why you're here. I think when people don't know the greater purpose of life then, then it's very easy to be trapped into what the ego wants. Then it becomes very small. You live in a small circle of purpose and it's, it's easy to be. Yeah. Be, be trapped in, in dissatisfaction if things don't go the way of the ego. When you don't know the greater purpose. Yeah. So then it's going to be a lot easier to be unhappy. Happy.

That's beautiful. Yeah, that's very true.

So my last question before I let you go. Are you taking Asanthin?

I'm not. Yeah, I don't, I don't mind. I could but it just. There's so many, so many things.

You're the Skin girl as well. Like you have your own skin care line. I thought, oh, I wonder if you're on Asanthin or not.

No, no, know. Yeah, there. A few, there are a few supplements like a senescent anti. Senescent. You know, like things that encourage. Yeah, encourage. What was it called? Senolytics. So there, there some things I've tried consistently, Just, just those few things I'm mentioning. There may be once in a while things that help with detox. Detox. But it can be a little overwhelming. Right. So it's, I feel like some people, that's all they do is the supplements and, and the biohacking and of course, I'm trying to help a lot of people, so. And also there are people in the world who are not taking all these supplements, who are not doing all this, and then they're doing great, they're leaving a good life. So I think the foundational piece is the most important. If you spend all your time on supplements and you're not learning how to manage your mental state, your stress, then you are. You're not going to do that. Great.

It's easier to take a supplement than to do the hard work of stress management. And that's why it's so attractive. I, I like the targeted approach in testing, measuring and assessing. And you know, when people say, like, do I need vitamin D? I'm like, I don't know. Oh, you just go test. I mean, maybe you don't need it. I don't know. So maybe you need just a little bit and not the higher dosages. This is where, where we can test and then see how would we respond and then test again. I'm always like going on supplements and then I go off of them and then I test and then I retest and it's like, is this something for me? Maybe I need vitamin D in this, you know, the winter, maybe not so much in the summer. I think you test the more you can see how your body is responding and you just take a little look underneath and sometimes it's, it gives you just a lot of information. Again, you need to have some extra cash to be testing all the time, because it's not. Yeah, but I'm like, I'm one of those people. I walk into a new country and I'm in the city. I'm like, oh, there's a lab. Oh, there's a lab. I don't need to go to a lab. But I'm just like, that radar is on. Like, I wonder, I wonder if I test Myself because here we could test quite easily. I know in some countries you can't. It's not so easy. You need the prescription.

But yeah, testing is a pain though. It can be, it can be a lot. Yeah, it can be confusing. I'm actually going to a retreat in India where they're going to test 181 biomarkers.

Wow.

Yeah. So I, I do think, you know, yeah, knowing it's good, but I think sometimes people also over worry there are variations in markers. Like we had a patient who checked a marker that, that's indicative of, of possible cancer. So then that threw her into a loop and then now she's all worried and you know what's going on when it's still, it's a little higher. But I think it, sometimes it can do the reverse. Just like a lot of people check for PSA and, and you know, for, for the, the prostate and sometimes it's just simple false alarm. There may be some small variation, you know, in the, in the, in the range, but doesn't mean that there's potential cancer. But I think some people have lost their prostate because of these markers and it's, it's probably completely unnecessary. So you have to be very careful.

You're right, you're right. Absolutely right. That's why we need help with interpretation with the right person. So. All right, I'm going to let you go. Joy. It has been a joy to have you and I'm so glad that you, you're, you came on and I have a link so to your website, to your podcast and, and everybody can find a little bit more from you and if you wanted, they wanted to go see you, obviously we can check you out in your clinic and, and try some, some cool regenerative medicine. Is there anything you want to share with us?

So maybe just so people, I always believe in the biggest bang for the buck. So I, instead of incorporating everything in the clinic, everything that there is in, in regenerative or, or, or in holistic medicine, I want to give people the things that are really going to move the needle. So of course stem cell therapy is, is a huge thing and we see that every day in what it can do for people. So it's really fun because we're able to help people who just can't be helped by all these specialists. And also we can help people to look better and, and, and feel a lot younger and look younger. Yeah, so that's, that's the stem cells. But in addition, the peptides are really helpful. We also do ozone therapy, we use energy therapy. So light, sound. And then now we're, we're including plasma phoresis. So the total plasma exchange. Right. Tpe. That one is really powerful. So you, you know, you can add a lot of good things in your body, but if you don't re. Remove the junk, just like if you have a truckload of tomato and some are rotten, and you keep putting in new tomatoes in there, thinking that this is going to make the whole truck better. But no, you better remove the bat ones. Right. Or apples. So you, you want to remove the elements that's keeping you back. So I, I, you know, these are the range of things that are really exciting that, you know, to have because I really, I know it can make a huge shift for people.

I love that. Thank you. That's wonderful. I am, I, I hope people, anybody who sees you or learns more about you, get back to me. I want to hear your experience.

Experience.

But, yeah, Joy's got loads and loads of clinical experience that I think if I were to ever do stem cells, I'm heading to you.

Yeah. You'll be very happy. Yeah.