Finding My Voice, My Freedom, and My Truth in Medicine

Stem cells. That is the epitome of holistic approach, because the cells connect your body, connect everything, and sends you massive amount of information. It gives you all kinds of peptides, all kinds of cytokines, all kinds of microrna growth factors, and it can hit all these different systems all at once. I was like, what could be more powerful than the intelligence that made us. Right, so talk the system as a whole. Now we have the epitome of holistic approach.

Where I'd like to start, if you're okay with that, is before you became, you know, Dr. Kong, you were born and raised in China?

Yeah, yeah, actually on the university campus. So I. I mean, I started out pretty lucky, even though some people say, well, it's a third world country. Well, I was pretty darn lucky that I was born on the university campus is considered one of the best universities in China. My dad's a professor, my mom's a high school teacher. So I was born into a very intellectual environment. And the university was built on a older royal garden that was transformed by the American missionaries into a university campus. So you got a combination of Eastern Western architecture and all these ponds and, you know, little mountains and so it's an amazing place to grow up. But do I have challenges? Yes, I think my own mother was a challenge for me. Like a lot of mothers in China or maybe in a lot of cultures, there is a sense of being judgmental or whatever. You know, people have their own past, you know, life experiences that may not have done them too much good, and then they're carrying that on to the next generation. So that was one of my challenges that, you know, despite her many, many merits, she was very judgmental and can be very harsh. So that's what I had to deal with. But overall, you know, things went fairly well. And I wanted to come to the US to study because my parents were teachers and they have remarkable students and, and all these great brain power. They tend to leave China. Especially at that time. China in the 80s, early 90s was far behind what the west is doing. So it was definitely third world. So a lot of young Chinese were leaving and going abroad to seek opportunities and excitement and abundance. So I wanted to come to America as well, because I heard about how exciting life could be overseas. And of course I saw movies and all that. So I wanted to come to America and I decided to go for it. And I worked very, very hard for it because I was facing bureaucracy. It was very difficult every step of the way. So I just, I knew the final destination, which which is to get a visa. So first you have to get a passport. But how do you get a passport? Just that is very difficult. And how do you apply for a visa and how do you apply for schools? Where do I send my information? And I didn't have any access to the information. The only place that has information of the schools were in one library in Beijing, the capital library. And there's in what's the cliff note? I can't remember exactly which, which big book. So I was first year in college, I was not allowed to enter that library. So I'm just saying that there are all kinds of restrictions, right. Roadblocks. So my first step is to get to that book and they wouldn't let me in. So I had to pretend I pulled a 007, I waived my student ID as if that was valid. And you had to go in with confidence. I was riding my bicycle, I was on my bike and I just waved my ID card, my college student ID card and the guard let me in. But still I couldn't enter into the library proper. So I ended up going behind the library, sneaking around, finding a back door to enter. So I snuck into the library and actually went through the kitchen to get to the library proper. And that's when I actually got to the book and, and wrote down handwritten all these about 60 schools that offered scholarships to international students. So that's how I started. And of course just the application fee, you know, one for to one school, that's like two months of my parents salary. So I had to write a letter asking them for please, you know, can you waive the application fee. So that's just step by step, right? Every step of the way, you know, overcome, overcome. Keep getting closer to your goal.

You were literally hunting for information.

Yeah, like I was a hunter.

Wild that you can. Well it's incredible to me that I'm sure when you tell that story you can remember like going. It's probably vivid for you, right? Because it's like. No, no, continue.

I remember, you know, beautiful sunny day, riding my bicycle, pretending that I'm actually, I actually belonged in the library and sneaking in, it's kind of fun, you know, beautiful memory.

When you think back to how that's pretty cool. So continue.

So even with all that, you know, getting my transcripts and, and you know, every step it was difficult. And studying for the TOEFL test, the English, you know, competence.

Yeah.

So I worked very, very hard. So it took 18 months for me to actually get a scholarship from a university, Clark University. In Massachusetts. And I was very confident. I think I was given a $10,000 scholarship. You know, I thought that was great. And there were so many missing, you know, to pay for the education. But I was going to work my ass off. I was going to go to a Chinese restaurant and that's how most Chinese do it, right? You, you bus tables, you wash dishes. I was willing to do anything so I could. And I also learned acupressure. So, so you know, that medicine and you know, the human body, the human healing, that's already kind of part of what I was very interested in. So I learned from this master of acupressure. So I thought, oh my goodness, I can do this. You know, pressuring different acupuncture points and through different massage methods and through manipulation of energy system, I can help so many conditions. So why don't I just go to America? I would charge 20 bucks a session. I, I, I got it all planned out, right? 20 bucks a session. And yes, of course I through it. Yeah, I'll be able to pay for everything.

Yeah, you're got it.

Yeah, yeah, I have a plan. I had a plan. So, and then very confident, very confidently went to the embassy to get my visa. My parents went with me. I remember they were hiding the cash all over their different, with, in different pockets because we were going to go right, right to the mall afterwards to get me myself a suitcase and also some clothes because I had almost no clothes. I mean we, we buy one piece of new clothes a year, so we, we have very little. So when I stood in front of the embassy and that's when the consulate, you know, the whatever counselor just doubted me, doubted why I wanted to go to America and doubted how the, the person that was signing the affidavit of support, right, A financial kind of a guarantee, it was really just a piece of paper. But legally there's some binding, you know, that this person will take care of you. That was given by my mom's student. So he did not believe that this student of my mom's would be willing to take on that responsibility. So he stamped it denied. And I was like, no, no, it's my entire dream, right? Working for eight, 18 months, right from, from every step of the way. It was very crushing. So I was in shock and very, very disappointed. And it's like somebody just slapped me on the face and, and, and, and telling you that your dream is, you know, too bad, too bad you had a dream. So, yeah, so I was feeling down for about three days and I got really angry. My anger came from just who are they to tell me no, like, who gave them the right to stop me from where I feel I belong, of what I think my life should be? They should not have that kind of control. So what can I do? Because I'm pissed off, Because I wasn't going to take that. I was going to do everything in my power to get to where I needed to be. So it was that really, the anger that was driving me.

You kind of like turn that into, like, you alchemize that into like action and like tenacity, right?

Yeah. So. So in that moment of anger, I, I was looking at the situation. The reason I was denied was not because I wasn't smart enough. I didn't have good enough grades. It was only because I. One, I didn't have any money. Two, the affidavit of support wasn't good enough to the American Embassy because the person that was writing the affidavit was not, you know, I guess, strong enough in their eyes. So which was the hard part, which is know somebody, know somebody in America that's willing to do that. And I just didn't have access, you know, I. You know, my families didn't have any connections. We didn't know anybody. The only people we knew were students of my parents and maybe you know, someone. Like, I remember a friend of my mom's friend who is British couple, and it was very. It was somewhat humiliating because I remember my mom took me to meet this British couple and they basically just like, you know, they, they didn't really have any interest and intention of helping and kind of look down, you know, upon us as these poor, resourceless people in this third world country. So that was, you know, I remembered that I was like, wow, but this is temporary. This is, you know, you just wait. But that's the thing, that I didn't know anybody. So what. What should I do? My conclusion is obvious. I needed to know somebody.

So make it happen, right?

Yeah. So what I did was that I took the Yellow pages of Beijing. I am gonna know somebody.

I'm gonna know someone by the end of the day.

So I just, yeah, it's. It's. It's illogical, right? Why would you. Like, how are you gonna do it? I don't know, because I didn't know anybody. I have to start somewhere. So I just started calling the best hotels in China randomly. Like, like the, In Beijing. I just called one after another. I called different rooms, hoping to find somebody if I figured if they speak Chinese I'll ask if they want to learn English because my English was pretty good and if they speak English and I'll ask them if they want to learn Chinese. That's it. That was my pickup line.

Hey, but like you said, it's, I'm, I don't know, but I'm going to figure it out one step at a time.

Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting, right? That's the vent adventure. So I. No idea who I'm going to run into. What's going to happen? Well, let's do it. So I, I wrote about it in my book. So I met, you know, a few freaks in, in a sense, you know, not very good situation that I got myself into, but I got out out of. It was just interesting kind of life snippets. And then I ended up meeting somebody that actually worked for a travel agency. So it was, I ended up calling a travel agency and that's inside the hotel. And that's how I eventually got the job as a tour guide to Tibet. So, so that was a dramatic. Right. I was trekking for three weeks in the Himalayas toward Mount Everest. So going from a college student, you know, with no resources, not even allowed to work, like it's prohibited at that time, and to leading a group of Americans trekking the Himalayans. And, but people have to read the book just to find out what happened next.

Well, and I'm sure along those, along those, you're literally on a, on a literal journey, right, where you're having all the, you're hitting all these roadblocks. So you're pivoting. And you, you had said when before you're like, when you had those rejections, you said just wait, just wait. And so it's almost like a ref. It's not almost like it is, it's a refusal to not attempt to figure out the next solution. It seems like you were just like, all right, what next? Right?

Yeah. Yeah. One thing I know I'm good at is pivoting because I believe pivoting is a sign of life force. So the life force within you is so strong, no matter what hits you, you're going to find a way around it. Yeah. So cannot be suppressed. And later on, when I met another difficult situation, very difficult, soul crushing type of situation I talked about in the book. How do you get around it? Do you succumb? Do you let it, you know, let your, your, your spirit die? Or do you actually go for transcendence or, or, or, or liberation?

So obviously you could, they can in your Book like you were mentioning. And I'm gonna put a link to all of, all of the res that everybody listening can, can find out more about. You read your book, but it sounds like there are some adventures there in the Himalayas, which. Yeah, some soul changing adventures there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of time in, you know, sometime in Tibet, you know, seeing a different culture. And then eventually, actually within eight months of my visa rejection, I landed in San Francisco. So that definitely. It was faster than I thought. I didn't know how long it was going to take. Yeah. So that was my first glimpse of the power within me, what I can do to change my circumstances. Because I literally was just one of the, whatever, you know, half a billion Chinese women. So with no resources, and how would I make something happen? But you can make it happen, because I remember hearing that if you have a goal and you put it out in the universe, the universe will conspire to help you to make it happen. So I thought about it hard. I thought, I need to be in America. I'm going to be there. I just have to be there. And then I believe the universe helped me out.

You had that vision, you. I mean, I'm sure there, like you said, there were literal obstacles that came in. Do you remember what you were saying to yourself in those initial phases when those, like, what kinds of thoughts ran through your head to keep you going?

It's my. I feel in my bones that's part of my destiny. And I'm not gonna, I'm just not gonna give up. Believe me. People around me were telling me, why are you trying? It's just about next to impossible. Like, why even bother? But to me, I wouldn't know if I didn't try. So I owe it to myself. And, and I, I figured I'll give myself a year, you know, if nothing happens, okay, then there's a different way to go about it. Because I was studying architecture at the time.

Okay, so a little different where you ended up, but you started there.

So I took a year off my school studying architecture. So all my classmates was like, why would you, you know, why don't you study architecture? Architecture at the same time of trying to leave China so you don't lose out, you know, what if you can't leave? I was like, I don't, I don't want to deal with what if I'm going to give all my all. This is what I'm going to do for this whole year. I'm going to get out of this place. That's what I'M doing a lot of restrictions that, like, I. All my life, I've been a troublemaker. All my life, to be honest, I've had, I had a difficult time getting into these organizations that, you know, that the kids of Merits get into. So the, the, the, the, the Young, Young Pioneer, that's when you're in elementary school until you're 14, and then the young league, that's from 14 to 18. So I have trouble getting into all of them because I had trouble with rules and, and because I have my own ideas, there are things that I feel are. Are the right thing to do. There are a lot of rules in China and my. I understand that's how you govern a country. But to me, just in my spirit, if a rule does not make sense, because, let's say I'm not observing the rule, but I'm not hurting anybody and I'm doing something a little differently, who are any of these people to tell me that I can't just in my heart that it doesn't sit. So I just. Then, to me, that's not my rule. That's your rule. So.

Yes. Oh, I can imagine that would be extremely challenging as somebody, as a, as a woman with an idea that just simply wants to express them. Right. Or wants to cultivate like a happy life. That is adversity within itself. I mean, it's just.

Yeah. So I always felt kind of constricted and the judgment, not only from my mother, but from people around me. And there's just a lot of judgment because you're supposed to conform. You know, I love Chinese culture. There's so many amazing things about the culture, you know, how wise it is and how, you know, it has collective wisdom and understand how to govern a large number of people. I mean, it's a very, very profound culture. But at the same time, it's not a perfect system, just like America is not a perfect system.

Totally.

We have some really entitled people who are getting very lazy. And that's a whole other conversation. But I wasn't happy with certain constrictions. I feel to the spirit and to judge how I should be that I have to be certain way. And everybody has to be this way other than, you know, otherwise you are weird. You are, you know, to be suspicious of, um, is a lot better these days. People are a lot more individualized. They, you know, such as reflected, let's say a garment right now they have plus sizes. And it's okay.

Right?

It's okay to be other ways that then just being one way so the, the culture is progressing. However, when I was there, that was late 80s and early 90s, it was still, to me, I felt stifled, so I wanted to break free. That's partially what was driving that.

That was. Yes, yes. And yeah.

So you.

So you bounced back within eight months. You said you landed in San Francisco.

Yeah. That was a glorious day. That was a glorious day.

My neck of the woods over here. I'm just outside the bay. I'm in the Bay Area. Just outside.

Really?

Yeah.

First day, straight to Golden Gate Bridge. I was like, oh, my God, how can it be so beautiful, this Golden Gate Bridge with the clouds weaving through the red bridge and the ocean, the sailboats underneath. I was like, what a magical place. Yeah.

After all the. After all of that, right?

All that, yeah.

Okay, so you. So you, you land and take me through the next chapter. Like, how do the next chapters unfold once you're kind of. You can take a breath? But I'm sure that's not the. That's not the end of adversity here.

No. So I. I wrote about it in the book. That was hard. So with all the excitement. So a dramatic romance story was actually part of the story, which made it very interesting, a whole other angle. But as somebody that's inexperienced in relationships, you know, I was 20 years old, didn't really understand how to, you know, evaluate a person and what were the right red flags. So if a person tells me they love me, love me, love me, then they must love me, and that must be, you know, all that matters. Right? Love conquers all. Love is all powerful. So, yep, we're done. You know, we love each other.

Perfect.

You know, this was going to be amazing because if we love each other, we're going to be able to communicate. We're going to work problems out. We're always going to be. Try trying to do the best for each other. How can anything be obstacles? So that was how I thought. But everyone comes into this world with their own baggage. Whether or not it's from their parents or from something even deeper in their DNA, there are limitations in what they can offer in a relationship. So that was a. A bit of a rude awakening. Just because I think I'm willing to give and love that everything's going to be okay. So I think a lot of young people probably, you know, learn it in their own way in their life, and they're very lucky. Few that, you know, got a high school sweetheart and that's it, you know, they're happy for the rest of their lives. And those are very, very, very rare. So, yeah, so that was something that I had to navigate with absolutely no support. I was here by myself completely. I had no, not only I didn't have my family here. I didn't want to tell a thing to my family of all the problems, all the troubles. And this person I was with, I was actually married to, was making sure that I had as few friends as possible. And he was very much objecting for me having my own support system. So I was extremely isolated and trying to navigate. On one hand, experience this person hurting you in various ways. On the other hand, the person keeps telling you how much they love you. So it was very. It was, you know, it was a very confusing for a young girl with no experience. So that's what I had to figure out, what's going on and what do I do? Do I. Because I was slowly dying inside. So do I, Do I. Because I had a. On the surface, I had a good, good life. There was, you know, abundance. There's. Yeah, I had. I had resources. This person, you know, it's. Is smart, accomplished, and everything seemed fine on the outside, but I knew that if I continued, that would be the end of me. So the only way to do it is to escape, to get out of it. So that's what I did, and that's what I talked about in the book. And eventually, yes, I triumphed, but not without battle scars. So it did leave some scars on me, which I had to overcome later on. I didn't talk about that in the book. I want to write the second book to talk about how I tried to overcome all these, you know, other. Other things that were keeping me down. Right. Not allowing me to be living the fullest, happiest life. Even though I won these battles. I just need to find time to write the book. You know, that.

That old time thing, you know, it's. You've got a few things on your plate. You know, you're like, where can I carve out some book writing?

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

But thank you for sharing that. And I know you go into detail in your book as well, which I'm very excited to dive into myself.

Yeah. The book is called Tiger of Beijing. You know, by the way people are interested is on Amazon. Yeah. There's an audible version as well. So people can drive and listen.

Absolutely. Well.

And.

And I always try to just, you know, whether that abuse is psychological, physical, you know, spiritual. It's something that this podcast too. It's just incredible to me how many people Both men and women have experienced that and have a story. And you're like, wait, what? You know, you know what I mean? It's always, it's always shocking. And then it's even more shocking when it's something that, like you said, it's all behind closed doors. Everything looks fine on paper. Right. Or it's fine. And then there's a different reality with relationships behind closed doors, you know, and it takes a lot to realize that because you have the cognitive dissonance and then actually do something about it. And then the post separation, I mean, there's just, and then the recovery yourself after you're out of it. It's such a hard journey. So I just commend you for being able to do that.

Yeah, it's interesting when I, I really didn't think I was going to write a book about my story, but when I met somebody in San Francisco, I, after all this happened, right? I was, you know, getting, I got my life kind of back together back in school, and I met this person who's a, you know, ex police officer. And I told him about this whole story and he said, oh, my goodness. He said, joy, you have to write a book. You've got to write this book. You need to share this story. So he kind of planted the seed in me that I have to write this book. And that's what happened. When I was actually in medical school, I took a year off. You know, I wanted to take a year off. I travel, I went to Africa. And then I, I decided I'm going to write this book. So I wrote it pretty fast. I wrote it, I wrote two thirds of it, I think within a few months. Within, yeah, five months or something. Every day going to Starbucks and just kind of meditate on, on life, right? So it was really, really enjoyable until I got to the part of the abuse and because I keep a journal. So I was going back to read my journal of what happened so I could, you know, faithfully document. And I got so angry when I was reading it, I, I, I, and I thought, who wants to read this? You know, like, who cares? Like, why would anyone care? So I just, I tossed it and I didn't want to finish. So it sat there for 17 years until somebody pushed me. You know, after I went into stem cell therapy, became, you know, kind of more, more prominent in, in this, you know, new Ralph medicine. And somebody really wanted to, to get me, you know, out there to more people and mentioned the book and, and this person was pushing hard. Why don't you finish it. Finish it. When can you finish? Yeah, I was like, in two months. So that's, that's how I finished book. But what's interesting was I was going to write it as a novel in the beginning because I, you know, I felt this is story to share. This is not about me. You know, I don't, you know, it's. It's a story, is a damn good story on its own, so it could be a good novel. But I wrote and wrote and I was writing in third person and at one point I just got sick of it. I was like, I'm tired of talking about shit. She. And how she feels. I feel this way. I'm just gonna. I would just wanna. It's. It's almost like you wanna speak from the depth of your gut, right? You just want to speak. This is how I feel. And, and finally I just said, so what? That the whole world knows that this happened to me. Big deal. One day I'm gonna die. Nothing matters anyhow. So who give us. Who gives a damn? Let's just write it and show it to the world. This is what happened to me. Big deal. So that's, that's how I just change it back. Change it to a memoir.

Well, that's super cool that when you started that you were just like kind of more like. No. And then that, that something comes within you and, and kudos to you for following that because you're right. In the end, who, like, what is it? It's what happened. It's what happened. And it's the human.

She has so much power. Truth is fascinating.

Liberating. So liberating.

That's why I love documentaries. Is that. Show me what actually happened. Because, you know, it's. Is there's a lot of drama in real life.

There is. Okay, so you, you and, and I know again, like we're. We haven't even gotten to the chapter of your life where you're working as a doctor and stem cells. And it's already just so evident to me that at every phase of your life you're encountering obstacles of different kinds. Rejections, mistreatment. But what seems steady is like what, what obviously has carried you through is sort of a refusal to accept that as this is what it's gonna. That's not gonna be your story, right? No, it's just not.

Yeah.

Hey. Okay, so continue, continue on.

We're. We're here for a good journey, right? We're supposed to be here for a good journey. You know, I've. I've looked at. At life and death very early in my life, and I just. I ponder about it, you know, why are we here? And we're going to die? Like, what's going on? Why do we have to all die? Like, what. What are we doing here? So, you know, I've decided very early on I'm here to learn, right? This is a place to grow and to gain more understanding, to become, I don't know, just become more enriched. So. So that's the whole point then. How can I make this life as enriched and interesting and fulfilling as possible? I want to do something that's useful. I've always known myself that I wanted to do something in this world. I've never set my goal as being a mother or being someone's wife. My goal is to make something happen, to bring something to the world. So I know that's me. It's not everybody's life path, right? I have no judgment for people who just want to be a mother. If that fulfills you and makes you happy, wonderful. You're lucky, you know that. That's great. But for me, it just. I can't. I can't suppress that. It's just who I am. I feel that it's in me. There's this potential, this thing that wants to come out, to do things. So, yeah. And then, until now, that I can't stop doing things. I need to cut it down a lot of things. There's too many things.

I know. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful burden. Not beer. It's just. It's like I'm only starting to feel that way. Like, I've just now awakened the beast within me where I'm like, I could do this podcast. What else do I want to. You know, and, like, how else can I do. And you can't stop, right?

Well, just wait. It's quite a balancing act of how to do a lot of things you want while having enough time and making sure that you are in a balanced place. So that's. That. That's the newer lesson to me, is not about trying to get to a place, is about having already, you know, got to a place or places and. But still wanting to do more. But how do you actually maintain your sanity and. And a sense of peace and joy while doing more?

That is the question, right.

And.

Well, and that I think you are actively answering that question through what you're doing. As a physician, I would say, right, that you are. I mean, that that inner pole you've. You've turned into A profession that is actively, like, making an impact on the world through stem cell infusions. Right.

Well, I didn't start out as a stem cell doctor because. No, nobody starts out as a stem cell doctor. So I went to UCLA and I was, you know, I've been fascinated by the brain because before even I. Before I even went to medical school, I thought I was going to become a professor in neuroscience because I like the brain. I wanted to study the brain. I thought, how amazing, you know, why are we. Why do we think the way we think? What are emotions? How did emotions occur and how do they. How do they rage through the body? And how does that affect everything we do? Like how. It's a bit of a mystery, right? So I wanted to. To study the brain. And then at ucla, that's when I realized that sometimes sec. I see a lot. Psychiatry actually makes more of a difference in people's lives in a lot of the disciplines. For, for example, internal medicine, diabetes, you know, I feel. Or some other chronic, severe illnesses, you know, pulmonary fibrosis. A lot of things that medicine doesn't have a whole lot to offer, to be honest. You go to a doctor, you have a sense of safety because a doctor tells you what's going on. There's a finality to it. Doctor knows, and doctor knows something can help or something cannot help. So you are given a sense of finality. However, a lot of times the results are not satisfactory because the doctor is not offering a good solution. But in psychiatry, what I've seen is that people are getting a lot better. It's pretty amazing. We can kick somebody out of psychosis pretty rapidly or knock them out of depression. I mean, I've seen that over and over. That's why I went into psychiatry. It was like, wow, I can actually make a difference. You know, for example, neurology, right? I love the brain. I could go. I could become a neurologist. But I realized what I've learned is that is a very depressing specialty. You can exercise all your intellectual powers to diagnose somebody. You can locate exactly where in the brain the problem is, and that's the end of what you can do. So, so how is that benefiting the patient? Besides knowing, I mean, that still, that's not really helping their life quality. You know, I went into psychiatry, it's not because I only care about the brain. I'm fascinated by the body, by. By life. That's why I went into medicine, because everything about the body is a mystery. It's a something to be unraveled is to understand, I mean, how the hell do we get in, get this machine that we can operate and with our, our consciousness and how does it do everything? Because a lot of times they do everything without us understanding how it works, right? So it's doing its own thing. So what's going on there? So I want, you know, of course, growing up in China, my mom, my mom eventually passed away from lymphoma, but she was diagnosed with multiple myeloma when she was 43. And everyone thought she was dying. So she died eventually at 75. But when she, everyone thought she was dying, she was in the hospital, in the best tumor hospital in China and stayed there for six months getting six rounds of chemotherapy. Lost most of her hair and was miserable with blackened veins. And most of the patients with a similar diagnosis on the same ward, they've all died, they've been carried out on a stretcher after being treated, you know, treated with these chemotherapy, very harsh agents. So she got so sick of it, of seeing herself not getting better and people dying all around her. And she said, you know, get me out of here, I'm out of the hospital, so I'm not doing chemotherapy anymore. She went to a Chinese medicine doctor and she got the Chinese diagnosis right, based on the pulse and the tongue and, you know, the whole, whole other systems. And he was also specialized in immune system, immune health. So she, he looked at what my mom's body, her particular constitution needs and wrote her a formulation of all these herbs and stuff. And all she did was that she came back home every morning. She went to the playground because we live in University, there's an elementary school. She was doing aerobics with a bunch of other middle aged people.

In San Francisco. I'm like, they're up early.

Exactly. So for an hour she was dancing around. And then she drank this potion twice a day. Nasty, nasty smelling and tasting. Oh, that's Chinese medicine for you. It has to be bitter, otherwise they don't think it works. But that's just the concoction. Within six months, everything went back to normal. There's no sign of cancer. Kidney function restored to 100%. So she went back to work full time for, for years, for another probably 15 years. And then she retired and had an amazing good life. And eventually, you know, she, you know, for whatever reason, you know, our life deteriorates. But that, that was an experience of a different medical system. So even though I love science, I've always loved science, Western medicine is very interesting. But I saw what this whole other System can do when the, the, the traditional system had caused a lot of people to be suffering and miserable and die. When my mom took a different route and she recovered. So what's going on? What's in the Chinese medicine that the Western medicine didn't know? Right. If they knew, they, hopefully they would have utilized it. But there's some interesting capacity like, or, or wisdom in this other form of medicine. So I never forgot that. And I always thought it's very elegant of what the Chinese medicine is able to do because it's connecting the body through these energy channels and it's looking at the body, not just, oh, let's just look at your head. Everything's happening in your head. Your eyes. Let's just look at your eyes. No, your eyes. Actually, in Chinese medicine, connected to your liver, if you start to get angry, you have liver problems, it's going to affect your eye because the energy actually runs through your body. So you don't just isolate different organs. But to me, it's a system approach. Not that molecular approach is bad and doesn't work, but it's only a piece of the puzzle. So if you don't zoom out and look at the whole piece, you're never going to solve the problem in a very effective way. So that's what had always kind of kept me. It was like, I, I, you know, I want to learn Chinese medicine. So that's what I did in medical school. I took electives in Chinese medicine. I went to work at East West Medical center in, in Santa Monica, and, and I studied on my own. But what I realized was that the Chinese medical system is very complex. The medicine has its own language that's steeped in history and in a language before science. And so now we have the language of science, and then we have the language of dampness and, and, and heat and fire. And so all of a sudden, you know, how do you bring the two together? And it was very challenging. So when I was searching and I was looking at integrated medicine and realized that they were using some of the principles of Chinese medicine of looking at the body as a whole, looking at things that connect everything, right? If you just look at vitamins, it connects everything. All your different organ systems need vitamins, right? One vitamin could control many systems or, or hormones that could be systemic, right? Control, control different organs. And so it connects everything. So you want to look at things that can, can connect your, your, your entire system. Um, and integrated medicine or functional medicine does that. So that's what I thought. Okay, this is, this is on the right track because you are able finally to zoom out a little bit. And now I have a way of looking at the body, maybe incorporating some of the wisdoms from Chinese medicine, but in the language that we can understand. We can understand hormones and, and minerals and, and peptides and, you know, all these things. Conn. So now we come upon cells, stem cells, that is the epitome of holistic approach. Because the cells connect your body, connect everything, and sends you vast, massive amount of information all of all at once. It gives you all kinds of peptides, all kinds of cytokines, all kinds of microrna growth factors, and it can hit all these different systems all at once. I was like, what could be more powerful than the intelligence that made us. Right? So that talk about looking at the system as a whole, now we have the epitome of holistic approach. So that's when I just, I was like, this is like a dream come true.

It's so cool. I, I'm literally. You took the psychiatry, the brain, the neural, like the, you know, the, that angle. And then you've got. Growing up and like seeing your mom heal and growing up with the culture of Chinese medicine. Then you've got the education. I mean, it's, it's quite fascinating to see how you've kind of looked at all those different. You've studied in depth in all those three areas. And then when you, it sounds like you came upon this realization that that's the way right through the cells.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Eventually everywhere, right?

Yeah. So again, if I just say stem cells can solve everything and that's end all, be all. I'll be falling to the same trap as traditional Western medicine, because that's thinking that everything there's, there's one answer to everything. No, it's not. Still, you need the vitamins and minerals, you need the different antioxidants, you need different hormones. You need your microbiome to be operating appropriately. Right. If you've got some, you know, imbalance in your, the critters in your gut, or you've got parasites, I mean, all these things are important. You can't just say, I give you one thing that solves all the problem, that is being a child, that, that you just, you, you're not able to think as the mature adult. So. And that's the problem I have, the beef I have with the current traditional medicine model is that it's still been a child that is not allowing itself to open up. You don't know what, you don't know, the important thing is that you accept that you may not know and be open. So one problem with the current medicine model and a lot of doctors is that they got their blinders on and they're trapped in the system. But there are also some amazing doctors who are just not satisfied. Like me, right? I wasn't sick. I was just searching. I was searching for answers for my patients and also to help optimize my own health. But a lot of, I know a lot of doctors in the integrated space actually had been sick themselves or had a family member that were really sick and they tried everything. They went to the best specialist, right? The Mayo Clinic, everybody, and they weren't getting better. What do you do? Do you give up or do you try to keep searching? Right. If somebody says this herb really helps you don't think you're to try it. If you really want to live, you may, you may try it and then you get better. So what do you think? If that's happened to you, you're a doctor and that happened to you or your family, the appropriate thing to do is to try to understand how everything, this top gun institutions have failed you. But this simple herb helped, or some kind of simple remedy helped you, you better understand why, right? So a lot of doctors do have that curiosity and are willing to come in and try to understand why. And there are doctors like me who just want to search for a better way of looking at how we can heal the body. But just be careful, you know, your listeners, a wide range of people. So some may still be trapped in this belief of the conventional medical model. If something is not approved by the fda, then it can't be good enough, right? So that's a whole other conversation. I was a big fan of the FDA when I was in medical school. I was, I was actually thinking the fda. I was like, thank God we have the fda. Of course my perspective has changed knowing what is going on in that particular agency. So when people are trapped in into believing that their doctors know the best, they have to realize their doctors are humans. These humans are groomed to give you drugs. And that's a system. And they're groomed in a sense, brainwashed to say that other systems don't work because there's not enough evidence. I was one of them. They tried, keep trying to put that in me, right. And I resisted because I know from my own mother that this is real.

That's not the case. You have the data, deny it.

Yeah. So, and I've, you know, seen plenty of. When I was growing up, my mom was always using both Chinese medicine and conventional, you know, Western medicine in our medicine drawer. They're, they're always two worlds.

Right.

They're all intermingled all over the place. Right. So it's like the body.

Right. Everything.

Like what's going on? You have a stomachache, like what's their symptoms? Because she, she actually loves medicine. So I'll tell her what's going on and then she'll go into the drawer and she'll pull out. I never know if she's gonna pull out a Chinese medicine or a Western medicine because depends on what you have. So it's not like one is always superior. So you've, you've got to. Yeah. I don't bash conventional medicine, but I also am not arrogant to the point where I think that, that conventional medicine has all the answers. Yeah.

You have to have that growth mindset. Right. As, I mean, it's just not, you know, I think maybe people assume, I mean, they like, oh, my doctor's probably, you know, open minded to all the things. Right. Like they're doing all the research for me and then I'll just. But you, you have to advocate for yourself and do that research. Right. And know if your doctor. Right. Like you said, doctors are human.

Yeah. There's no, and there's no reason for them to know unless they're searching. Because I was in that system. So if I had not searched, I would have been just. I kept going, doing my, my thing. Because we are required to have cme. We're required. So one, one good way to get CME is to go to conferences. What do you get? So either you read articles that's written by the industry or you go to a conference that's sponsored by the industry. So it's all drug oriented and there's no reason to let you skip out of there. Like, why would they want to teach you something that tells you that you don't need a drug when. When the whole point is that they really want you to use drug. And that's our entire education at ucla. Right. Half an hour of nutrition and the rest of the time so we don't care about preventing you from getting sick. That's. Yeah. Preventative medicine. Yes, yes, they mentioned it. That, that's something. That's, it's good. But we weren't taught how to do it. We just, we were told, yeah, there's a, you know, there's preventative medicine, you know, we really should prevent. But that's lip service because we don't know how to prevent. We don't even know about nutrition. But what we're, we're taught is once the patient gets sick, now you can run all these tests, you can do all these imaging, now you can find out exactly what the diagnosis is. The only reason the, well, not the only reason, I guess, but the most important reason. One of the most important reasons to find the diagnosis is that diagnosis will give you medications. So now you got direct correlation, right? That's the whole point about medications. Every medication is approved for a particular diagnosis. So this is the locked in system. This is why now doing integrative medicine is hard. Or people who are doing, you know, selling supplements, it's difficult even though we know something has been very beneficial for the body. But we can't make claims because claims are related to, to conditions. So the moment you mentioned condition, now you're infringing upon the, the territory of the drug companies. Because they've spent the money, right? They have spent the money. So that, that's one reason that they have the advantage. Right? They've spent the money. So if it takes average $2.1 billion to take a drug to market, they have a very important mission to recover that money. Right. And that, that will come out at you.

They need to get people on that medication right quick, right? They want to get people on it.

Yeah. And they would love to keep you on it for a very long time. So that's the thing that I didn't, I realized that was a flaw in the system and I want people to get better and just, it's a, just, just my sense of integrity as a doctor as I went into this because I really feel that I can help people. So then why don't I just do my job and try to help people as much as I can and if I see a system as not being very effective, then I'm going to find a different way of helping.

It's like you said in the beginning growing up that that's their rule. That's not your, you're, you're seeing something where you're like, wait a second. But that doesn't make sense. Like for you, if you want to just automatically do that and, but what about like it's, it. I'm just so glad that I'm so grateful for doctors like you. Like, thank you. As someone who has no medicinal knowledge other than, you know, some, some classes in high school, I just really appreciate that there are doctors like you who aren't afraid to rock the boat and like be like Wait, wait.

But this doesn't make sense and it's not without risks. So there's professional attack. Right. So actually when I went into stem cell therapy, my prior colleague who's a co resident in a psychiatry residency was telling people that I lost my mind. I was like, no, I think I just found my mind.

So whatever narrative you want to. I'm going to and get busy and help people over here.

And then the fact that the therapies are not in the conventional sense. So there's always, you know, the, the. The different entities governing bodies that could be breathing down your. Your neck. And also it's a known fact in the integrated medicine medicine space that some of the most well known integrative medicine doctors, especially cancer doctors, have. Have died mysteriously. A quite a significant number.

I've seen, I've seen some headlines about that. And so that's.

Yeah, so. So the risk is. Is real. Yeah. But is the right thing to do.

But it's. It's like you said, what are we here for? Like, if speaking the truth. Like I don't think you've been one to shy away from truth. It sounds like you were born with this desire to just find it, pursue it and let people at least know about it and make their own decisions about what they want to do with their. But like.

Right.

Like give them the information. Like you were sneaking into the library. Just let me have access to the information. It's. It's like scary that. That, that's really disturbing and not okay. That these. Yeah. It's just the suppression of information and control and money and.

Yeah. And I got a taste of it. It's just funny. It's sad. You know, you're talking to somebody that came from a country that there. Where I felt suppressed. Right. So I felt there are certain. Like I'm not able to get information. I mean things are way, way, way better. But I came to this country because I thought America, what a beautiful concept because people can actually be free. People, all races come together. They actually learn to get along together. They respect each other. We're this melting pot and we can express ourselves. We can be free to speak without repercussion. But guess what happened during COVID I did not feel that I could actually speak my mind. My channel probably would be shut down. I mean I had one video taken down. You know, I, I got a. A strike because of one sentence of just of speaking our mind. So I've. I've become. I've known. Yeah. Unfortunately it. So it's everywhere. It's everywhere. And you know, my bubble was burst.

No, not here, man. Come on.

But.

And it's a, it's a reality that we need to talk about and keep it real. And you know, if we want, if, if we want this country to be a place where information first flows freely, you gotta call out when someone's censoring. I mean, it's that, that's my worst nightmare is being censored. Like, I'm a chatty person with a lot of opinions and I like to hear every. That's the beauty of this country is like being able to freely discover information. Debate. It's. What do you think? Let's test it. Let's try it. Let's. Right, but that corruption of the human.

What makes exciting. That said, I'm still very grateful and appreciative that I'm here, not just because that there, there, there is a lot of level of freedom and it does allow people to reach their dreams. Because I have done, you know, something wonderful in my life to reach for that American dream. Right. Actually, I actually achieved it. So the country gives tremendous opportunity. It allows you that latitude. You can be anybody. If you want to go to school, you can go to school. You. That's not true in every country. In China, you bust your head open to try to get into a college because the competition is so high. The year when I was entering college is one in seven of the high school graduate can, can go to college. Everyone wanted to go to college. Right. And my year was an easy one. The year behind. Yeah, after me was 1 in 13. So just because you want to be a college student doesn't mean that you can get in. And, and it's very limited on what you can choose. But in the US that's what you know, that's why I majored in photojournalism. When I first came here, I was like, I can be anything I want. So it was, it's amazing. It's amazing. It is a lot of wonderful thing about this country and the fact that I can do stem cell therapy in this country freely. I have to thank the system because the system has certain protection of doctors who are like me. What we're doing is that we're providing tissue transplant because we as doctors are able to transplant one person's organ or cells into another person. That's part of the practice in medicine. So because of that philosophy and that approach, I'm able to do it. And look at how many people I've helped. Look at how many doctors I've trained and how many people they have helped. So we're creating a wave because of this latitude, because of this, we can do it. But that's not true in every country.

It's not with. It's a.

It's.

You're grateful to have that opportunity, yet it doesn't come out. Come without its adversity within any system. Right. Like, but what a beautiful country that we can have that. Like, we need to be grateful. Right. For that. And I think it's incredible to hear that what you're doing is having that ripple effect where you can actually like fascinating the science behind it. And, and that's like, you know, we could talk for hours about it. But again, I think it comes to. Comes down to like being able to have information freely flow and being able to have that curiosity. And if like a government or a body is suppressing that, it's gonna, it's gonna change the whole world. You know, it's. So I just, again, I commend you for, for taking on that and having that courage because it's not easy. I mean, it's not easy to, to. To bear that kind of criticism and sort of attacks when, you know, what you're doing is helping, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It got me a. Got. Made me a rebel for a good reason.

You know what I think? And I'm only beginning here, but just through the podcast, you see that the human spirit can withstand quite a lot.

Right.

I mean, if you've got. Not to say that it's, you know, not extremely difficult at times, but what I have learned and what I think you're a testament to your journey is showing me that tenacity and that will and that spirit can get you a hell of a long way through, like a lot of really, really hard stuff.

Yeah.

You know, is there any sort of message you'd like to leave just with, with our listeners about anything that you've said, any kind of parting words for us?

Yeah. Keep searching. So people, when I have gone through, actually when I, when I talked about having battle scars after winning battles. Yeah, it's, it's for. It's very real because I've dealt with depression. Of course, I come out at the other side winning. But I remember actually in medical school, that's when I first really kind of fell into, you know, felt very down to the point where I thought I was 29 years old. I thought, I don't think I will ever be happy again. I just don't see how. Because. Because I was stuck. I was stuck in my mind, in my way of looking at the world. So if I didn't think, because I thought I wasn't good enough, so then how do you get out of that? You know, was there a solution if I just wasn't good enough? But what about why you thought you wasn't, you weren't good enough? Like, what is good enough? So that's, that, that, that, that switch, right? You have to get over that gear and. But you don't get over it if you don't keep searching. So I kept searching. I kept reading books. I went to a psychologist. I debated with him why I wasn't good enough. He told me why I was. We were fighting it out. So. But then eventually he made me see, like what? Like, why are we here? Who gave you the idea that you weren't? Like, what's good enough? Like, so we were just going through. Yeah, you have to peel the onion. So eventually you get over that. And that's one hurdle. Psychological hurdle is one. Right? You're, you're in trauma. That's another. How to deal with your pattern of, of reacting. And then physical barrier. If you're not having the right nutrition, the right elements in your body, then you can't feel good. How do you overcome that? And another thing really important is spiritual. Like, do you know why you're here? If you think you're here just to grab anything you can before you go, you know that you're going to just for physical satisfaction, then you're gonna have a whole different way of living. Some people live that way. I think I'll just, you know, eat the best food and, you know, have the best sex and, you know, have best people on my arm to show off, you know, that's a different way of living than other ways. And why would you live in another way? Like, do you have a reason to do that? So do you have any spiritual connection, any reasons why you will do something to help the world to connect with others in a meaningful way? So all that has to be worked out, and that's layer by layer by layer.