From Being Beaten as a Child to Becoming the Stem Cell Queen | #191

I didn't like how she was approaching everything, and I certainly didn't like obedience being beat out of me, and they were just hitting me. At that time, I already made up my mind. I was willing to die for her principle, basically. That's what I rely on, you know. If I'm not afraid of death, then what am I afraid of? The will of the person is, is really important. How much do you really want to heal? Some people have given up, just like they've given up on their body, and they've given up on their spirit. So my purpose is to make the world a happier place. If I can help people be more healthy physically, that's one thing. If I can help them them to see the world more clearly, then I'm doing a good job.

Good morning, welcome back to The Space Between. Today's guest is a pioneer at the intersection of science, healing, and human potential. From immigrating to America after a visa rejection in 1991 to becoming a triple board-certified physician, bestselling author, and globally recognized stem cell expert, she has dedicated her life to helping people regenerate not only physically but mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Dr. Joy Kong, thank you so much for taking time today. I really appreciate it.

Oh, thank you so much, Sean. Really happy to be here with you.

So your story began with rejection, uncertainty, and starting over in a new country. Looking back now, how much of your destiny was born in the moments that could have broken you?

My mom certainly tried to break it. I think she thought she had good intentions. But, uh, but it created a very adversarial environment. Um, so she's— she was very judgmental and wanted things done her way. And, uh, I was a very stubborn kid. I wanted things done my way. So there was a big clash, and to the point where at one point, uh, you know, she was hitting me, um, you know, with the help of my dad. I think I was probably 6, 7 years old, and when they were hitting me, because one person's not enough, because I would just get out of the— run out of the door. So two people had to work together, and then she will be basically asking me to submit, you know, my— basically my spirit. She said, say you're wrong. I didn't like how she was approaching everything, and I certainly didn't like obedience being beat out of me. So I just said, not wrong. And they would just keep hitting me, and I'll just keep screaming, not wrong, until I— because at that time I already made up my mind, I'd rather die than giving in. So then they just had to stop. So that was kind of the, you know, one of the earliest memories of me standing my ground. So, you know, what does it say about destiny? I was willing to die for her principle, basically. So that's what I rely on. You know, if I'm not afraid of death, then what am I afraid of? You know, nothing. So that's what I utilize in my life is I Fear nothing, you know, what's the worst thing that can happen to you?

Yeah, I mean, I, I like you, I was, I was beat permanently with the belt as a child by my father. Um, you know, it's funny, we had, we watched a movie the other day, the Michael Jackson movie, and there was a scene where he got beat by his father, and I looked at my daughters, I'm like, this is what I used to get, girls, okay? Like, I promise you I'll never do that to you. But they were just like, they were awestruck because they couldn't believe that that would happen to somebody. I'm like, That's probably a very mild version of what happened. Hmm. No.

Yeah.

Do you believe people can emotionally or spiritually regenerate the same way the body can physically heal?

Uh, yeah, I do think so. I think, uh, even though we're just at the beginning of understanding, but a lot of it is energy, energy field. You probably can repair the field, you know, you can become whole. And if you tune in to the, the intact circuit of the energy. So I think, I think it's possible, but, um, the will of the person is, is really important. How much do you really want to heal? Because people, some people have given up, just like they've given up on their body and they've given up on their spirit. So there are definitely people like that. But I think if you have a will, then you can, you can get to a place. Even if you can't get to the place in this lifetime, you'll get there next time. But, um, But the key is the journey, right? Um, you gotta stay on the journey.

Yeah. I think the journey is the destination. I think a lot of people get that confused. Um, I, I hear a lot of stories. You probably hear a lot of stories about people who are very successful and when they arrive to the destination they had created in their mind, they feel absolutely empty inside. Why do you think that is?

Uh, is because they, you know, they don't, they don't know really what matters. They don't, they don't. There's so many prongs to this, but I think first you have to know your purpose, like why are you here? So if you don't have that clear, if you think you're here to just grab whatever you can to satisfy how I'm feeling, you know, like a temporary pleasure or my ego, I feel okay about myself. So if that is the goal of your life, then you're going to be trapped into the level of awareness and the level of consciousness that that's going to bring you. It's never going to bring you a greater joy, um, you know, a bigger, um, like the— your consciousness can let you see more beauty if you rise above. But if you're only focusing on a little self, then that's the level of beauty you're able to see. You can't see the bigger picture. That's why, you know, since I was a kid, I marveled at some people. How could they have such a nobleness in them? How can they sacrifice themselves for the greater good or for someone they love, and they feel good inside, right? So what is— what do they have? What do they know? What do they see? Because if you're just focusing on gaining something for yourself, satisfying the little ego, then you don't know how great it can feel when you know more, when you're, when you have grown your consciousness. So I think that's the thing, that if someone is limiting their consciousness just to achieve some tangible goals, then that's all the beauty they're ever going to see. So do you want to know more? Do you want to see more? If you don't, then you're restricting the level of happiness you're ever going to have.

Yeah, I think it goes back to being curious. That's what, that's what pops in my mind when I hear you talk about this consciousness. And a lot of people aren't even aware. You think that's the first step? They have to become aware of all these things that are going on in their life before they can really start exhibiting change?

Yeah, a lot of people are not aware and they don't want to be aware. If you start to talk about things like this, uh, they, they, their, their brain is shutting off, you know, their eyes are, are, you know, just gazing over me and they, uh, you know, glazing over. So they have to want to know. But I do believe everyone has their journey, so you can't force somebody, you know, make them want to know. That's not going to work. Sometimes they're forced to find out because sometimes they get into a really bad place that they can't get out of. They don't feel good anymore and they have to face themselves. So I mean, I have encountered that. It's not like I'm speaking on a podium that I'm, you know, holier than thou. I have got through my Journey of the Soul. I was that little ego thinking that I just, you know, I want to feel good about me and, you know, things are for me. And so I went from that until, until my ego was bursting in how important a thought of self was. And if you do that, Unfortunately, there could be pain waiting for you because if you think that's all that matters, and which was what happened to me when I was in medical school, my ego was getting shattered because I thought I was the best. So, you know, a lot of people can pump themselves up that way, right? They think they're the best, they're it. And we all know, you know, someone sitting on the head of the state probably feel that way. But, are you limiting yourself? Are you letting your arrogance prevent you from seeing the full picture? And when I was in medical school, I think my ego was shattered. And the reason was because I thought I was so great. And of course, I can't be. Nobody is that great. Nobody's great at everything and, you know, of all fields and all, you know, human capacities, right? We can be good at something. You mentioned Michael Jordan. But he may not be good at something else. Oh, he tried tennis, didn't he? So, you can be amazing at something, but if you think you are end-all be-all, I mean, that's the roadblock I, you know, hit. And so, I had to really figure out why am I here if I'm not this, you know, supreme being that I thought I was, then what am I? Why am I still here? Do I need to be here if I'm not what I thought I was? What's the purpose? You know, maybe I should just check out. I thought about that. I was like, I'm not what I thought I was, so why even stay here? But I think the life force is too strong. The life force is like, you're here. Yeah, let's, let's figure this out. Um, so I had to find out. I read a lot of books, you know, searching for a meaning for existence. I went to churches, you know, temples, and looking for answers. Maybe people can teach me. I'm sure I'm not the first one that thought about this, thought about why I'm here. So yeah, so I think it's a, yeah, it's a journey. But once you know your purpose, that this is not all about you, then things will start to shift.

I'm going to ask you the million-dollar question. What do you think your purpose is? Because I think everybody wants to know that, why they're here. And I think most people are chasing accolades and status titles. They're not chasing purpose and significance. Clearly you've sacrificed a lot to get where you are. Are you living in your purpose now by doing what you do?

Absolutely. Lucky me. God, am I lucky? Because at one point I wasn't. I mean, a lot of times I wasn't. I, I didn't know what my purpose was. Um, but then I found Thank God I found the profession of medicine. I found what, you know, I mean, I can't think of any other, any better profession than doing something day in and day out to make people suffer less and allow them to reach, you know, greater within themselves. So healthier, happier. That really is my purpose. So my purpose is to make the world a happier place. It sounds so cliché, but The world is not a happy place. I mean, there's some happiness, but there's a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, a lot of ugliness. So I'm here to help bring out the brighter side, the inspiring side. So the inspiration, the excitement, the joy. So that's what I want. So I talk about elevating the happiness index of the world. So whatever I can do, right? If I can help people to be more healthy physically so they can do more, they can enjoy more, that's one thing. If I can help them to see the world more clearly, that they are a nicer person, then I'm doing a good job. So, you know, I was a psychiatrist. I practiced psychiatry for 11 years. Um, obviously helping people's mental state, helping them, their understanding of themselves, that's important to me. So And then I, you know, now I'm focusing more on anti-aging medicine, on more on the physical aspect. But it's all together. You know, you have to address everything together. So it's about— and then in the meantime, I learn and grow. So that's something I've always known since I was a kid is I'm here to learn, to grow, and to just get better and better and better. You know, why? I don't know. You tell me what God is thinking. So no one knows the final, final answer, right? You have guesses. You have um, intuitions. So my sense is that I'm here to grow, to learn, and I like to do that all the while making the world a happier place.

I love that. And I, I think we should always be a student in life forever. And so where do you land in your faith? I heard you mention God. How has that played a pivotal part in your existence? Where, where did you land when you were searching for God or going to temples or— where did you kind of land?

Well, I think of God as an analogy. A god is a representation of a different level of consciousness that we have no idea. We, we don't— we can have a glimpse of it, but nobody, no human being on Earth can really truly comprehend what God is. It's beyond us. It's something that I think it's— yeah, our human brain just has a limit on what we can comprehend. So, so it's a representation of something so great It's great to the point where it can create us. Just imagine that. That's how great it is. Hello, my loyal listeners. I want to interrupt this podcast for just a second because I want to let you know that if you're looking to help solve a major health issue or you're looking for health optimization and just for longevity purposes, you can find us at Chara Health. We are considered the leader in the regenerative medicine and longevity space. It will utilize modalities like stem cell therapy, peptide therapy, plasmapheresis, ozone treatments, laser therapy, all to create a beautiful symphony to get you to where you want to be. You can find us at www.chara-health.com. That's C-H-A-R-A. I grew up an atheist and as a lot of Chinese because so first of all, as a culture, there's really not a whole lot of talk of God. The three dominant religions— well, you can call it religion— in China is Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism. So this is three dominant, what you can call philosophy. But throughout history, the concept of God is not very prominent. So there are some, you know, people are humanizing certain deities, you know, in Buddhism, even in Taoism. So they're, they're, they're entities that they worship, but, but there are a lot of them. So in general, the idea— Buddhism is about looking at the world, um, in a lens that— from compassion, from, uh, from detachment. And it's, it's very much a philosophical, uh, approach. And then Taoism is very much about tapping into the power of nature and, and go with the flow of the natural, you know, rhythm, the natural way. And then the Confucianism is more about how do you live in harmony amongst each other. And the human world is complex, but how can we make sure we don't rob and steal and kill? And how do we be harmonious? So Confucian, you know, who's actually my great-great-great-grandfather, he came up with a really good system. Confucius, um, to help people live harmoniously together. So none of them really emphasize God. So, and then there comes communism, uh, definitely if you can't see it, um, then it's not there. So when people talk about God and then they just think of that all as superstition, all as, um, you know, not real. That's why they destroyed all the religious icons and, you know, churches and temples. They've done a lot of damage. Um, so I came from that. And I remember as a 15-year-old, first time going to church for fun, you know, because that was a rebellious thing to do for a, you know, a little kid growing up in a communist China. We're gonna rebel by going to church. So I was 15 years old going to church on Christmas because we're so bad. And then when people are all, you know, the sermons were on, they were talking about God and, you know, like all these what people say in church, right? And I remember, this is how arrogant I was, I was yelling out, I said, "Are they stupid? Don't they know that there's no God?" And I remember somebody was like, you know, poking me, "Stop," you know, like that. But I was a kid, I was very arrogant. So from that to realizing that there's something much greater than us, and that's the only way you can explain lots and lots and lots of things. And the more you go further, including with the aid of psychedelics. So I presented at a psychedelic conference. In my clinic, we've done ketamine therapy before. And that really helps you kind of poke through a matrix and you get to see what else could be there. So that helped. But even before all that, you know, just conceptually, just intuitively or just from understanding that there's so much more beyond and from people's experiences that I took it on faith that there's something way greater than us. So yeah, that's kind of my evolution.

I love that. You wrote a memoir, Tiger of Beijing. It tells a story about courage and reinvention. What identity did you have to let die in your life in order to become the woman you are today?

Um, one big death is, is ego. Um, I think at one point, yeah, I think that was blasted away. When you— I mean, no one is completely free of ego and the influence of ego. You all, you know, you need the ego to survive, to, to keep this entity going. But, um, as far as thinking that I'm it, I'm so great, and this is— this world revolves around me. I mean, all that's gone. Um, so that, that focus on me, me, me is the one that I had to let go. Um, and, um, yeah, and there are other tough things, right? You, um, let go of savior complex. Possibly, you know, realizing that, that everyone is their own guardian. So if somebody, even, even if they got into your world and that they are having their own problems, it is not my responsibility. I can try to help a little bit, but at some point when you keep trying and the result is that you are going to be dragged in and be the sacrifice for, you know, the possibility of them getting better, that's when you need to take a step back, is to let go of that notion that you are here. If just because you run into somebody needs help doesn't mean that you need to sacrifice your entire life to help, right? But people have made that mistake before. Some people have sacrificed their entire, entire life to help somebody else, and that's not your job because that person needs to seek their own salvation. Yeah, so I think, you know, I'm still learning lessons of, you know, balancing kindness with discernment. So I've been burned, especially as an entrepreneur, you know, working with people, being kind to people. But now there's, you know, I've seen quite a few, just the things that shows the ugly side of humans. So let go of that without completely losing my innocence and my heart, right? So how do you let go of that great acceptance to everybody and thinking that everybody has your best interest and everybody's going to do their best? But no. So I think there are evil in the world. As we've seen what happened with, you know, child trafficking and all that, there is evil. And you have to accept, you know, evil can wear a very benign face. So how do you gain that discernment? That is, you know, so lose the blind trust. So that's one thing that has to be lost. Yeah. And that's a journey. I'm sure a lot of people have similar experiences.

Yeah, it's funny you say that because I was burned, uh, pretty significantly just a couple of days ago having to deal with sort of do some stuff. And this is the first time it's ever happened, um, and I'm just, you know, like you, I, I want to see that, I want to believe everybody's like me that has my— they want to help me, right? They want to, they have my best interests at heart, they want to do the right thing, they want to honor their word, they want to do what they say they're going to do. And that just isn't what happened. And I'm I'm learning lessons. I know. So I'm going to learn something for this process, um, sometime down the road, maybe not to make this decision again, hopefully. But yeah, it's amazing how you, you put your trust in people and they just completely take advantage of it. Yeah.

Yeah. So, but hey, it's a big, beautiful, and messy life.

Check the box and off we go. How do you continue trusting your vision when you face skepticism or resistance?

Because I have had a record of success in the face of skepticism. So starting with, well, you know, starting with maybe when I was 13 and when I became a bad girl, you know, basically not opening up my textbook for 6 months and my grades plummeted and I was hanging out with all these bad kids and everyone was giving up on me, including my mom. My mom told me that I would become nothing but social garbage. And completely gave up on me. And what I decided is that, no, you know, I am going to— I'm going to college, I'm going to be somebody. So then once I put my mind to it, my grades jumped, even though everybody said, oh yeah, when a girl falls behind at age 13, nobody has been able to catch up, you know, they're kind of like lost. That's, that, that's, that's a, that's a life lost. And I thought, no, no, not me. So, so that's what I did the first time that I just really proved my own capabilities. And then, um, later on when I was in college, first year in college, when the new policy toward college students came down, um, basically making it very, very difficult for any college students to leave China And I decided that I was going to leave. And it's not just the Chinese side is making it difficult, the American side is making it very difficult because that's the place I wanted to go. You know, out of every place, America is the most welcoming to immigrants, to somebody from another land. And I love the American ideal of inclusiveness. So that's the place I wanted to be. But all my friends, they thought I was a little crazy because it's so difficult, is next to impossible. And that's why all my friends, none of them were trying. I'm the only one trying. And so they were trying to make it, you know, to make me stop trying because they thought that was impractical. So, but I told them my, I I will only find out if I try. So that was the second time. Even though my visa was rejected and it seemed like it was impossible because my family had no connections, we had no money, we're just, you know, working teachers basically, my parents. So it was, to other people, it's really just time to give up, time to come back to school. So I was in a university studying architecture. Just come back and, you know, get back to what you were doing. What did I do? I took a year off. I was like, I'm taking a year of leave of absence. Why? Because I need to keep going. I need to give this my full effort. I don't care if the embassy said no. I'm gonna try. And then 8 months later, I was in San Francisco. So all these are evidence that I'm gonna be fine. And in my book, Tiger of Beijing, I've talked about the second obstacle. The first one is getting out of China. The second one is getting out of a very toxic relationship. How do you free yourself? Um, yes, a lot of people would have given up. I'm— a lot of women— my parents were trying to tell me to give up to— but well, they were telling me that I had a good— that this is somebody that loved me and cared about me, has good financial resources, and I'm taken care of. Everything is fine. Why would I want to leave? You know, just try to work. Yeah, if you're reading my book, you will see why it was not workable. Um, although, um, you know, from somebody on the outside, it seems like this is a pretty good deal, that you are— you don't have to worry about anything. But I knew if I stayed, that will be the death of my soul. So do I want my soul to live on, or do I want to live be a walking dead. So there's no— there's, there's, it's not a choice. It's not— I wasn't choosing. I knew exactly what I had to do. I am going to live. So, so I left and I survived and I got a scholarship and I became valedictorian of my school. So everything I've put my mind to, I was able to achieve. So now when people say, oh, you're doing stem cell therapy, you know, it's not FDA approved, it's, you know, taking on risks. Um, I, I, and, or, you know, business, trying to set up, you know, incredible business, scale it. And I, I said, I don't think actually any of that is as difficult as me trying to get out of China because that was literally, there's no way forward. I was completely stuck. So if I was able to somehow make things happen, because, um, yeah, um, from believing in myself and from the universe willing to help me, then, then whatever I want to do now will happen. Um, and I'm actually not very attached to the outcome, um, because I think there's part of me that's, that's certain that it will happen. Um, but part of me is like Even if it doesn't, it, it, it's okay. It's a journey, but I know it will because it aligns with what the universe wants. What I want is to heal people, to make this therapy available to everybody. Um, that's aligned with the world that wants healing and wants health and wants goodness and beauty. So because it's aligned, so it will happen. Um, but yeah, so I'm, I'm kind of, you know, living with that, um, um, a sense that, that of, um, assuredness, but not attachment. Yeah. So I love that.

I have a saying, I call it marry yourself to the process and divorce yourself from the outcome. Because if you dive, throw yourself into the process, you're gonna get the result eventually, but you can't be attached to that result. It'll come eventually.

Mm-hmm.

As long as you stay in the process. You talk about belief. Where do you think purpose, mindset, and belief intersect with physical wellness?

Um, yeah. Uh, we, I think you believe, I think it means a lot. You know, even just interesting from my mom, you know, that's an interesting example. She was diagnosed with multiple myeloma when she was 43 and everybody thought she was gonna be dead within a few years. And she was pouring through these medical journals. She's not a doctor, she's a chemist, but she was pouring through these medical journals trying to figure out what she had and what's going on. And it's interesting. So what happened was that she did live. She lived for another 32 years and really amazing life. Very active, very full. She did, you know, die eventually. At her funeral, I didn't even know, my dad said, she's an extraordinary woman because when she was pouring through those medical books, She told my dad, she said, there's 1 out of 10,000 people that have been reported to have spontaneous remission. She said, I am that 1 in 10,000.

Wow.

So the belief in the strength of the, you know, the will. Yeah, it's 1 out of 10,000. I mean, but she didn't just sit on her butt and just waiting for that spontaneous remission. She went ahead and was seeking, seeking remedy. You know, she was in a hospital for 6 months and the chemotherapy was getting close to killing her. So she left and started using Chinese medicine and aerobics, 1 hour a day. And within 6 months, everything went back to normal. You know, so you still have to search just like when I thought I'm going to be in America. After my visa was rejected. But if I'm just sitting at home thinking that I'm just going to be in America, I'm never going to get there. So what did I do? I picked up the phone book and started calling hotels, hotel rooms randomly, because I had to do something. I had to do something. If I don't stir the energy fabric to make things happen, then nothing's going to happen. Then I'm just going to sit there until I'm 95 years old.

So yeah, I love that. And once again, nothing changes if nothing changes. So if you don't do anything, a lot of people hope and wish for their life to be different, but they don't do anything and their life stays the same for 30-something years.

Mm-hmm.

Negative. I can't accept that. And you don't, I don't think you've accepted that either for your life. So Dr. Joy, I really appreciate our time today. I got one more powerful closing question for you before we wrap up our time today. If healing is ultimately about becoming whole again, what do you believe humanity is most in need of healing from right now?

Their heart. Yeah. I don't know. So much of the suffering that we inflict on each other, on other creatures on earth is because we can't tap into our heart. We don't, we can't feel. What another person or creature is feeling. If we can just feel, then we would not— you would really hesitate to do that to somebody else. And if we, all of us, just stop, stop hurting each other, can you imagine what a place this world will be? And that's the first step of humanity. You've got to learn to feel. For somebody else, anything else, anything living. So I think that's step one, and that's the part of the rising of consciousness. So I do think that humanity, if we, if we want to survive— there's no guarantee that humanity is going to survive, you know, we might go extinct because of how violent and vicious we can be— but if we want to survive, we've got to expand our consciousness. You got to tap into the heart and, um, yeah. And then use that brain, the heart and brain coming together.

See, that's the longest 18 inches ever in life. Dr. Joy Kong, it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, hear your story, and hear your insight to wisdom today. I will put all the stuff in the show notes where people can reach out to you, see what you're up to. And, and they want to work with you or get your book, all that stuff will be available to them. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, yeah. Just one thing, people want to reach out to me, they can always come to my Instagram. So it's just Dr_Joy_Kong. And, um, yeah, my YouTube channel has a lot of very helpful videos about this, the anti-aging science, and the, and, you know, my podcast, and also stem cells. So stem cell therapy is what I'm passionate about because that going back to the concept of God, is using God's intelligence to help heal us. So, um, yeah, I'm, um, I, I, I'm, I'm here to, to help, to serve.

I love it. And you absolutely are blazing a trail. So best wishes to you as well in all your endeavors.

Thank you, Shawn. Thank you for watching and listening. If you enjoy this kind of content, please subscribe and turn on your notification bell so you don't miss any of my future content. And if you want to learn more about regenerative medicine or other modalities in anti-aging medicine, please go to my YouTube channel, Joy Kong, MD, and there are all kinds of videos to help you keep learning.