How Stem Cell Therapy Can Help Reverse Aging | Dr. Joy Kong & Tansy Rogers

I'm very public about my age. Well, in my memoir, you know, my birthday is right there, but I'm 53 years old, and I started doing stem cells eight years ago. So I can show you pictures of when I was 43 versus now 53. I definitely look a lot better than when I was 43. It's funny and a little embarrassing that I've got people on YouTube who are commenting, oh, yeah, I looked at your video before. You definitely look younger. I was like, oh, damn, was that bad?

It's important for me, for the listeners to know you, to really actually know you, at least where you're at in this season of your life, because we're going to get into all of the things that you do, and we're going to get into your journey and your background, but I want to know where you're at now. What word or phrase do you feel that you're embodying right now?

Excited? Yeah, I'm very excited. I've come a long way. If you know anything about my journey. Uh, it's a, you know, it's not a straight line. I. People don't realize I grew up in China. I had a whole life in China for 20 years. Right. I was a bona fide Chinese girl with. At the time because I grew up in the 80s, you know, really. No money, no. No connections, just one of the little girls under communist rule. So. And then I came to this country about 32 years ago, and that's quite a journey. But I. I talk about how I even got to in the book Tiger of Beijing. So that's a really interesting book. About three years of my life and then coming here, finally reaching, you know, going to medical school at ucla, getting excited about psychiatry, you know, because I love the brain, human psyche. So I was a practicing psychiatrist for seven years after residency, and then that's when I got into holistic, the whole holistic realm, which is my passion. That's really. I mean, I love human body and human health and. Okay, it's not about the human body. It's about the miracle that we're living in. That. That's all. You know, what. What is this life? How the hell does the body know what to do? What's going on? That's really it. So trying to tap into that kind of intelligence and miracle and then respecting the body in this complexity, you know, Western medicine, I think as far as it's gone, I have a lot of respect for all the breakthroughs that we've made, but it is a little infantile in a way of thinking, because it's thinking about things very linearly. When everything is a system, our body, our life is so complex, you can't direct everything from A to B. You think any everything can be determined. If you find the A and the eight leads you straight to B and then you're going to solve B. It's so much more than that. It's a whole web of more than 26 alphabets and they're all interlinked together. So you've got to really tap into the whole web. You can't just pick think this one line is, you know, on their own, on its own. You have to look at the whole web. So that led me to stem cell therapy, which is probably one of the most holistic thing and complete form of healing that you can engage in because that is the intelligence that created us. So I mean that is not what created something else, the stem cells. So but what's in that cell has the potential to form a full human being and that is intelligence. So that's why I'm so excited about stem cells, because this is first time in human history we are using intelligence to help a kind of slow down intelligence in the body so we can actually heal better. I'm excited because I've gone a long way since I started eight years ago. Eight years ago. Starting from being a doctor who didn't know that you can do stem cell therapy. When I first met a doctor, he said, oh, I'm doing stem cell therapy. I said, you are? I thought they're still doing research on it. You can actually give it to people. I mean that's how, how closed up I was. And I was not alone. I bet you majority of the medical do well now these days people know more, but eight years ago they're just really not that many doctors that actually know you can do stem cell therapy. But until this day, a lot of people still think that you can't do in the US and you know, some kind of special avant garde thing you have to go abroad to get. No, we can talk about that. But since I got into the space, not only I'm treating lots and lots of patients have seen all kinds of chronic conditions, you know, that people got tremendous relief from. But also I'm helping a lot of people to live younger, to literally dial back the clock of aging so they're more, more healthy and with more energy and they look better. And then so. So my clinic has grown a lot in Los Angeles, but in the meantime I set up a stem cell company because I wanted to assure the quality of the products. Because if we're doing stem cell therapy, you need the stem cells, right? Those. That's crucial. But so not all stem cells are the same, you know, just because one doctor says, I do stem cells, oh my God. It depends on are you using your own, right? If getting cells from your own body is very different from getting cells from the young umbilical cord. And we don't do fetal stem cells or embryonic stem cells. And these are just, these are big words that people get really confused about. What we do in the clinic is umbilical cord. You know, umbilical derived stem cells. They are not embryonic stem cells. Embryonic stem cells are start basically when the embryo was forming, day five to seven after fertilization, that's when there's a cluster of cells inside the ball of this early embryo. That's when they take one of those cells out, and that's embryonic stem cell. So it does. It means that you're destroying an embryo. And we don't do that. We actually wait until a full human is healthy and just came to this world. We cut the cord, right? The person is not taking the cord with him, and none of us want the cord. We cut the cord in the past, the cord and placenta is tossed in the biological waste basket. Now we can harvest those, you know, with the consent of the mother to be willing to donate, and then we can process the cord. So anyhow, so but that is different between different sources. So if you have a young source is in a lot of ways it's going to be better than from a person's own. So I talked about why it's not just my opinion is from all these research from around the world that's showing why the younger sources are superior in so many ways and safer. You know, even though we think, oh, we've given, you know, my own cells to myself, it's of course the safest. Well, actually, your own cells have lost certain intelligence and it may tell your own existing tumor cancer cells. We all have cancer that's coming up, popping up, you know, here and there. It's part of life. Your immune system will get rid of it. But if your immune system's weaker and the stem cells comes along and the stem cells decide, you know, I'm telling everything to grow. So if you use your own stem cells, there are risks anyhow. So there are all these different, you know, gradations of stem cells. But what I believe is the best source right now is from the birth tissue from the umbilical cord. So I started a stem cell company to make sure that I'm able to give people the most, the highest quality source with the most scientifically kind of making sense, concoction of cells, because there are a lot of cells in the birth tissue. So what kind of cells do you include? So I developed a formulation that includes different types of cells. And then at the same time, I'm educating physicians. I just did a certification program the weekend before, you know, teaching doctors how to do stem cell therapy. You know, you can't just do it because a stem cell rep told you what to do. You have to learn everything. There's so much to learn. I spent two days and it's barely enough. I probably need a three day training. There's a lot to cover. So I'm excited because I think this is, this is a wave that cannot be stopped. And it's just funny. And I saw it, you know, eight years ago, I saw where it's going, that using birth tissue cells is going to be more dominant. And I saw that this is a grassroots movement. People are going to want it, people are going to look for it and people are going to push doctors to give it to them. And that's how the therapy is going to just start to spread like wildfire. And it's not going to be. It cannot be contained because the healing potential is like the light, the intelligence that's coming through. You can't stop it. You can't. It's too strong. Yeah. Anyhow, we're getting into a whole other arena which we're going to get into.

So much down that rabbit hole. I want to take, I want to take one step back. I find this so fascinating because first off, you can tell how passionate you are. It just exudes out of you. And I love that. I love when people are so excited about their work. Like they can't not get excited about it. But one thing I find super interesting is the journey in your book Tiger of Beijing, the journey that you took. First off, for so many people, life circumstances can knock them on their ass and make them feel like, forget about it. I'm giving up. I don't even know. Like, I might as well just give up. However, you pushed and you pushed and you pushed and I feel like there must have been something that was driving force within you that was pushing you so hard. Can you tell us a bit about your journey and how it had inspired you to do the work that you're doing today? Like why? What brought you bridge that gap for us.

So just to warn people when you read my book Tiger of Beijing, because I've gotten this feedback from my patients that they were a little disappointed because I didn't talk about how I became a doctor. So I'm going to talk about in the second book. But what's really relevant is that this is the same kind of drive and same kind of persistence, basically saying, I believe I'm doing something right either for my life or for everyone else's life. You know, I believe this is a righteous thing to do. This is, this, you know, this is a God given right. So when I was, I didn't grow up in Communist China, I didn't know anything about God. Actually, I was pretty irrelevant. You know, I've reformed since then. You know, I became a lot less arrogant. But when I was a young kid growing up in China, that's more oppressive as far as who you can be and how you should behave. And it was very uncomfortable for me. And I was always breaking the rules, always in trouble. And I thought America, you know, really embraces individuality. And it seems so exciting and so just, there's so many opportunities. I just felt this thing inside of me. I get so excited about needing to be in America. Like there's something, it's visceral, like you can feel it. I could feel it in my body that I just need to be there. So you just have to respect that. Because at first I wasn't, I was trying to use logic and brain, my, you know, my, my, my thinking cap to decide whether or not I wanted to come to America. Because that was 19, 1989, actually, that, that was the Tiananmen Square massacre. And then right after that, that's when the policies changed. So I was, you know, 18 years old. And the, the Chinese government made it very difficult to leave the country. Of course, America has always made it pretty, pretty difficult to get to America. And so I was facing, you know, the pressure from two sides and none of my classmates are trying, they just, they just thought, you know, why even attempt the impossible? So to me, I know there's a sliver of chance, there's a sliver of chance, but because I want it so bad, I'm just going to, I'm just going to do it because, you know, if I don't try, I will never know. So that was the reason I gave it to them. But I was trying to think whether or not I should leave because I was studying architecture, you know, in a great school. I was, you know, My life was good. So why did I want to ditch everything and dive to, you know, learn English and try to find people to sponsor me? It was a huge undertaking. And I was trying to understand, you know, like, whether or not that was a reasonable thing to do because I could just stay in China and have a great life. And then I thought for literally for three days and three nights, I was exhausting myself and my friends. So I did. Finally, after three days and nights, I told my best friend, I said, I'm done. I'm done, done thinking. I don't know why. I don't know why I need to get to America, but I'm just going done, you know, so. So that's you. Basically, I listened to my gut, so I think listen to your gut is really, really important. And that's how I got into psychiatry, because when I was working in a psychiatric ward, I just felt this surge of energy, this excitement, and it's the same kind of excitement that, you know, when I encountered stem cells that just. It was. It was intense. Right? This is just. This too good. I can't believe this one small tool, this little cell that you get from somewhere can heal, can. Can help so many people in such profound ways that modern medicine can offer. You can have. Develop all these drugs. You can't do what these little cells do. And these are just from us. These are. This came from us. It's not. No one was, you know, developed it except for someone upstairs, really high up upstairs, developed it. So why don't we use his formula? Why am I trying to develop our own using our puny little human brain? So, yeah, so that's. That's. That. That's the inspiration and realizing that this is actually very powerful and a very, very special way of healing.

Listening to your gut is a very common theme that I hear from my guests so often. And it's usually those people who've had to push through some of the chaos, some of the expectations to be able to truly step into their magnificence. And right here, again, you just emphasize listening to your gut was a big piece of where you're at now in that journey.

Yes, yes. Yeah. We don't always listen to our gut, I'm sure. Plenty of mistakes.

Yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure. Well, your work in stem cell therapy and anti aging is really groundbreaking, and it is. It is creating this movement of so much more possibility and opportunity for people to just live better lives. Can you start by explaining what stem cell therapy is exactly and how it really fits into this broader sense of regenerative medicine.

Okay. When people think about stem cells, people may not realize the very first stem cell therapy was provided in the 1960s through bone marrow transplant. So they were really giving people stem cells. They just didn't have. They didn't know and they didn't have the word for it. And then they realized, oh, we have stem cells in our body, these cells that can self replicate and replenish itself. And so that's the characteristic. They can make copies of themselves, so identical copies of themselves. And they can make a copy of something just a little further down the differentiation pathway. So just a little different, a little bit more specialized cells gaining some function. So that's what the cells are capable of doing. Our body is full of stem cells, but we had a lot more of them when we were born. There are so many types of stem cells. I always say it's like an evolution from the first fertilized egg, which is the most powerful cell. From that cell, it keeps dividing and forming different structures and migrating and then up to a certain point until a final organ is formed. And the cells in those organs are the final cells, functional tissue cells. But before that, there are a thousand gradations of what the cells can be. So it takes, you know, it's like if the cells are evolving and evolving, eventually becoming a final tissue specific cell, and then they start to do their work. But there are tissue specific stem cells in each organ. For example, your liver are going to have liver stem cells. So if your liver is injured, your tissue is injured, the liver stem cells are going to start to divide, you know, make a copy of itself and then make a copy of the liver cells. And so it's going to replenish the liver tissue to make sure it repairs. So there are so many different kinds. And in our body, there's a very special kind called mesenchymal stem cells. Their job is not so much to become a specific tissue cell, even though they can't mesoderm. So mesenchymal is in this middle layer in the embryological development. And this layer can form muscles, f, bone, cartilage, et cetera. So they do have a tendency, potential to form any of these tissue cells, but they also, the majority of what they do in the body is to provide this coordination of repair. So they are actually along your entire vasculature. Anywhere you have blood supply, you have these mesenchymal stem cells that are just hugging the blood vessels, which basically, you know, holding onto the blood vessels. But at the same time having all these tentacles going around touching all the other cells in the neighborhood. So it could be local stem cells is always talking to local stem cells. Hey, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you, you know, when you should start, you know, start, you know, make copies of yourself, you know, start, you know, develop, you know, the, replenish the tissue. And it also talks with immune cells. It can send signals into the blood. So it can, you know, send a lot of. Yeah, tremendous amount of signal in neighborhood to, to make sure the cells are doing their work. Telling the immune cells to become more anti inflammatory or sometimes more inflammation is important. Basically coordinating the immune cells. We're all talking about the intelligence of the immune system. So that's a whole. We don't know how the cells know what to do. Right. This is a whole other conversation. How do they know we don't know the miracle that's a whole. That's a different level of understanding that we can't quite tap into yet. You know, one day I think we'll get there, you know, as our human consciousness evolves that we get higher and higher. It's like the 5,000 foot view, right. We can't actually get beyond right now. We're so trapped in what we can see and understand. We can't understand what we can't, we can't see. So these stem cells, mesenchymal stem cells, are everywhere. And when we were born, every 1 in 10,000 cells is a mesenchymal stem cell. But when you reach your 40s, it's already. Well, when you reach your teens, it's dropped to one in ten hundred thousand. So one tenth of what it was when you were born. And when you reach your 40s becomes 1 in 400,000. And when you reach your 80s, it becomes 1 in 2 million. So 1 of the problems with aging is that you are running out of stem cells. You don't have these signals to tell your body how to repair, how to calm the immune system, how to make the immune system more effective. Not only you're reducing in the amount of stem cells, you're also having a sharp decline of the quality of the capabilities of the cells. So that's what I was talking about. You know, the cells are losing certain capabilities and intelligence, including the intelligence to detect cancer. When we use stem cells from the umbilical cord, the cells are young and they are almost like they have more intelligence contained and they can tell, oh, you're a cancerous, you don't belong. I need to tell you to die. That's the program, cell death signal. So that it can sense particular ligand, a particular molecule into that cell to tell the cell just go on, you know, go on your pathway and die. So it's fascinating how, you know, as we age that the cells have lost that particular memory.

You had said 1 in 400. Yes. 1 in 400,000 by the age 40 or so, and then 1 in 2 million by the age 80. With that rapid decline like that, is that a big part of why we have some of the aging process really stepping up and happening? Is that, is that what is happening with us?

It's absolutely. Because I have a lecture on YouTube, I've given a lecture in a lot of places called the anti aging benefits of stem cells. So what, what can stem cells do? So basically they have shown in animal studies, right. It's really hard to study longevity in humans, you know, because you know, the researchers would have died, you know, by the time the subjects, you know, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, very difficult. But you can study it in animals like mice only live on average for about 20 months. So you can see if I give the mice, the older mice or middle aged mice, either way, young mice, stem cells, what do they do? What happens to them? It's consistent. Mice, rats, they live about 30% longer. Not just living longer. They look way better, right? Their locomotion is better. They can run the maze better, the memory, they can remember better. And their fur looks shiny and their spine is straigh. They basically were maintained at a younger state for a longer amount of time. So that's why it's, it's so transformative that now we know that stem cells can actually reverse the aging process. Now, I don't know if you know, the aging process is what's driving all the chronic illnesses. Why do we start to have. Why is the biggest predictive factor of cancer age? Right. Or any other chronic illnesses? Age is the biggest predictive factor is because you're aging. So right now the government is not recognizing aging as a disease, although there's a push to define aging as a disease. You are ill. Your illness is that you're getting older. It's not that you're accumulating in the chronological age, that doesn't matter. It's fantastic. But you're accumulating decline, you know, the declining factors, all the driving forces to push you to not function as well as when you're younger if you reverse that process. What we know is that if you can delay aging by seven years let's say the whole population, right. Instead of people getting sharp decline, really old by age 50, I mean. Yeah. And then we allow them to extend that. They don't get that much problems and they don't. So biologically we bring them back to a younger state to let's. To a 43 years of age, then 50% of the chronic conditions will be gone for the entire population. So if you move the whole population to seven years younger, half of the chronic, chronic illness is gone. That's how powerful this is. So I do believe this is why I'm passionate, because I have a chance to help transform the human health landscape. So it's not just health. Imagine us being on earth. Let's just give an example of a doctor. We all have doctors we love, right? Those old doctors who are so loving, great souls, have so much knowledge, so much heart. We all love them in the community. But guess what? They get older and they can't work anymore and they die. What if we can extend these Doctors life by 30%? What if we give them 20 more years of beautiful life, that they're vibrant, that mind is sharp, they feel great and they can continue because they love what they do. They would have continued to be a doctor if they're able to. Right? So we're changing and imagine all that wisdom, all that love that we can allow to, you know, to continue to live on, right? And then the wisdom that he can share with his grandchildren, great grandchildren, so there's a chance to transform the human experience. So I do believe with stem cell therapy is not. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I think it's probably a reasonable number to reverse the age by 15 years. I think with stem cell therapy I can easily help a person reverse the age by 15 to 20 years. And I think we can drop the rate of chronic illness by 75%. That's, that's what I'm looking at. That's the possibility. And if we can just get this more widespread that people are actually just going to take stem cells. You know, just whatever you do, take stem cells, one day it's going to be no big deal, right? Now is this. Oh my God, this is so, you know, like only rich people can. One day it's going to be like, what, you're sick? Have you taken your stem cells? For God's sake, you know, get some stem cells. You know, you're getting operation oh my God. You know, like, you know, okay, when are you getting your stem cells for that? So it's just a part of everything you do. You know, the stem cells is going to give you that intelligence to heal better, heal faster, and fight everything off quicker is gonna be no big deal at all.

Oh, man. Wow. Yeah. Is this gonna be another supplement in your little daily pack? Right?

That's right. That's right. Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens. You know, there's so much going on, you know, right now in the, you know, bioscience space, so. Biotechnology. Yeah. Pretty exciting.

Yeah. Well, let's talk about specifically that term anti aging. I mean, it gets thrown around and there. I know when most people hear anti aging, they think that their skin's just going to look better and they're not going to have as much pain or aches, but they can move a little bit better. Right. So let's talk specifically about what that is.

Okay. I'll tell you a funny story. When I got into anti aging medicine, I was so excited. So I told my parents I'm now in anti aging medicine. I'm an anti aging doctor. I'm no longer a psychiatrist. You know, that's the path. My dad is like, oh, oh, there are a lot of, well, there's so many anti aging clinics in there in China. And they're, they're cheating people. You know, they're, they're, they're taking people's money. It's so much. I think everyone was like, oh, we're anti aging, Right. We're preventing aging. So it got a really bad rep in China. And it's all about a lot about, you know, looking better in the face. And, and I said, no, dad, this is, this is so much more profound than the face and, you know, looking a little better. This is transforming how we look at human health, that we don't have to age. Aging drives all the diseases. I'm there trying to reverse that trend. You know, I'm one of the people that's part of this force. So that's why some people don't like the term anti aging. But I think it's beautiful because it gets right to the core of what we're doing, that we want to slow down the aging process, the aging. You might as well change the word aging to decline. How about we do anti decline medicine? Let's just stop the decline. That's really what we're doing. There's so many things that can be done, and stem cells is one of the most powerful tools, and I've seen that in myself. So I'M very public about my age. Well, in my memoir, my birthday is right there, but I'm 53 years old and I started doing stem cells eight years ago. So I can show you pictures of when I was 43 versus now 53. I definitely look a lot better than when I was 43. And it's, it's funny and a little embarrassing that I've got people on YouTube who are commenting and they're saying, oh yeah, I looked at your video before, you definitely look younger. I was like, oh, damn, was that, was that that bad? So I got confirmation, right? Third party confirmation. So we can do that. And it's not about just doing all these things on the face. I tell people if you just focus on your face, you're going to get perfectly smooth skin, right? You do all these facial and all these procedures, perfect skin. But what about everything underneath? What about the fat pad? What about your, the ligaments that's holding up your skin? What about, you know, the, the, you know, the, the muscles underneath? You know, that's atrophying, not to mention, you know, so that's just for the face. What about all your organs, your body? You know, you're entitled. What about, you know, your, your skin, right? There are other parts of your skin. So what if we give you something that can rejuvenate you from the inside out? So forget about the outside in. Outside in, you know, it's still helpful, but I think one of the most powerful thing is the inside out because I think the human face is a reflection of all your internal organs. So you just, you know, if I look at you, you just show me what your organs look like, right? How wrinkled they are, how, how dehydrated they are. You know, how needing help. So I can see your face and I can, you know, you're giving me a glimpse of all your internal organs. So when people have aged face, they have aged organs. What if we can reverse all that, right? You can't see your liver aging, you can't see your heart aging, but doesn't mean that it's not going on. So if we can have a way of just bring you, you know, it's like the light, right? Spreading it from the inside out. So you naturally are gaining your youthfulness. So that's, that's what's so fun about this.

I love anti declining. Anti aging to me always felt very superficial. It always felt very surface level. But the anti declining is so much more. It can't be. It, it's so multidimensional. It Encompasses not only the physical health, the skin and the way you look, but also your mental health, your detoxification pathways, your emotional health. Like all of the stuff that we don't necessarily see each and every day. I love that.

That's great. That's great. We're just, we just coined a new term, anti decline.

Well, you also work with exosomes, peptides and ketamine and these kind of therapies. Can you give us a little bit of an overview about these and how they actually complement stem cell treatment and enhance overall patient outcomes?

Yeah, I think it's really important to look at all these different factors of the human health. That's why the academy I founded is called American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy. Because, you know, very early on I just, you can't just look at stem cells alone. The stent, the cells don't function in a vacuum. If you are toxic, right, you have, you know, toxic, you know, either organic toxins or heavy metal buildup, or if you, your gut microbiome, you know, the microbiome is disrupted or you are not taking enough of the important vitamins and minerals, if your hormones out of balance, you can just say cells is going to fix all that because they can't. If you don't have enough amino acids, you don't have amino acids. Stem cells are give you extra amino acids. So you can't just ignore all the things that are important. So in my clinic, I stress how we have to attack the health from multiple angles. So when people come to do stem cell therapy with me, it will be a lot easier and faster if I just say, okay, let's just do the cells and give you the cells and you're done. But it's a lot more labor intensive to have to, you know, explain to patients these are the supplements that's going to enhance the results of your therapy. Because people can tend to be deficient amino acids and you know, in oxygen delivery and you know, vascular, you know, how your blood is flowing through your body whether or not you are getting enough minerals and let's look at your hormones. Can we optimize those? All these things that we have to, you know, kind of look at in a person and then we address those factors. And when they come to the clinic, they don't just get stem cells. We actually do ozone therapy first. That really boosts our immune system, enhance oxygen delivery, activates their own antioxidant system. So we do ozone and we do stem cells and we use laser light treatments. It's a powerful Therapeutic laser. So these can attract the cells to certain areas. So in the sense, we can direct the cells to where we want the cells to go. Not to mention the healing properties, tremendous healing potentials of the light. Those are their different light frequencies. The different wavelengths determines the colors of the laser. And then the frequencies can help the laser to tailor toward specific tissue. So it's almost like talking to different types of cells in your body with a different language, like a Morse code. It's. It, yeah, it's. It's telling you're, you know, talking to different cells. So we. We can use that to really dial in. And peptides are important too. It's so cool. That's like the body's like a chemical factory, right? Manifesting. So what we have, energetic body. We have, you know, these chemical. That's part of the manifestation from the cells. So the cells are the cells that contain DNA. Right. We came from a single two invisible. You know, we can't even see. Right. The fertilized egg. And from that intelligence, the DNA came all these proteins. Peptide is a short little protein. Basically, you came to all these manifestations, and that's your body's way of saying, okay, we can do this, we can heal that. And the peptides, there are so many there. I think they're 300,000 different kinds of peptides. I mean, there's just incredible amount. It's like a universe, like a. How do you describe that? Right. It's a giant soup of intelligent molecules that they're floating around in the body. So because there's so many. So each one of them can be very targeted. Some are specific for brain health to help you with your brain regulation and neurotransmitters. Some are specific for musculoskeletal development. Some are just for, you know, maybe cardiovascular health, actually. They do tend to have a range of benefits, but some are much more specific. So you got all these potentials, then we can dial in. Because a lot of times when people are sick in a particular system, they probably don't have enough of the peptides that can help them heal. And that's part of the decline as well. We lose the amount of peptides we're producing as we age because we, you know, one, we may not have enough amino acids. You know, we're not taking in enough of the. Not only taking in the protein, but digest the protein, absorb the amino acids. You know, that's a whole. Our microbiome is. Is interrupted even if you eat a ton of meat and you end up not being Able to absorb them so to, to, you know, absorb the final building block.

So.

Actually utilizing the peptide themselves, giving the body direct signals to, to help you affect particular organs has been really, you know, really, really powerful tool. So. Yeah, so these are some of the tools that we utilize. And I do think that it's important for a person to not just rely on stem cells. They can produce tremendous change. I've seen people who are doing everything else right. They've done ozone hyperbaric, they've done all kinds of peptides, hormone replacement and nutrition and eat, you know, the best diet, but still they're dragging. They're not where they want to be. And then with stem cells, all of a sudden everything transforms. I think of stem cells as the engine to take you where you want to go. Right. You can have all the fuel you want to be. If your engine is faulty, is dragging and it's, you know, needing repair, needing some kind of refurbished, you know, then you, you're not going to get to where you, you want to be or you're going to get there, you know, slowly and painfully. So that's why stem cells is powerful. But all the other things are important, right? The engine without fuel is not no good either. You know, I have the best, most clean, cleanest engine, but got no fuel. You know, that won't work either.

Yeah. Wow, fascinating. Well, let's talk. You mentioned brain health, and I want to go back to that piece for just one moment. Brain health, in the work that I do, I work a lot with mental and emotional stuff such as anxiety, depression, emotional swings, because I do a lot of gut health work, but also ADHD and also brain health is really very close to my heart, you know, for many, many years. For those who maybe have listened to the show over the years and have heard me talk about this, you know, my grandma ended up having dementia and I was a. I do a lot of caregiving for her. I have done a lot of caregiving for her. And I, her and I were always very, very, very, very close. And to see this rapid decline in her brain health just had. Has been such a hard journey for me from a heart connected place. Right. You know, but always knowing there's something else that could have been done. There's plenty of things that could have been done for her in, in her life that could have offset that for sure. You know, but whenever I have this conversation around brain health, I always think right back to her and so many of the other people who have moved into some of these diseases that are associated with brain health is crucial as we age. So how do stem cells and these other regenerative therapies really help to maintain or improve brain health overall? Depending on where you're at along your.

Journey as a psychiatrist or ex psychiatrist? You know, the brain is, you know, dear to my heart. And one beef I have with psychiatry as a field is that they seem to think that the brain floats above the body, that they're somehow not connected. Maybe they think there is a tiny little connection, and then the thyroid maybe matters a little bit, but the rest they don't consider because they say, oh, before we give you psychiatric medications, we check the thyroid. You know, depression, right? Depression is prevalent. So if your TSH is high, that means your thyroid function is not good, Then we need to address your thyroid first. That is the only thing the psychiatrist, the typically trained psychiatrist would check before giving a person medication. And the TSH is nowhere accurate in reflecting what the thyroid was going on. With the thyroid, it's notoriously inaccurate. But they were stuck in medicine 20 years ago, so they haven't looked at the new science, how the TSH is a poor reflector of what's going on in your thyroid function, because you really need to look at the active T3. You know, you need to look at the free T3 levels to see how much of the active thyroid hormone is, is, is around. But, you know, people don't realize thyroid is complex. You need T4 as well. You can't just bombard the body with T3 because the brain, you can't get T3 in the brain. The enzyme to try to, to change. There's enzyme in the brain that transform the T4 inactive form of thyroid hormone to T3, which is the active form is. That's, you know, it's in the brain. So T3 can't get to the brain. So T4 has to be there and the brain has to transform. So you can't write. There's all these nuances, so people are not recognizing it. Most endocrinologists don't know. I mean, this is how sad it is. Most endocrinologists don't know. The thyroid is one little piece of the puzzle for brain health. Everything else, you know, it's your cardiovascular system, your, you know, could be your, you know, liver function, and all these things have an impact on your brain health. But that's not looked. Looked at. But as far as stem cells, it acts in different mechanisms. First of all, you know, doing everything is important, right? You want to detox. You want to detox the body and detox the brain. And don't forget there are infections that can affect us as well. So you want to do treatments to help reduce that kind of impact, you know, from, from these bacteria, viruses or parasites. Stem cells even in that regard can boost your immune system. It does help enhance your immune function. So you can fight off these, you know, infectious agents better. But it's not going to be able to help you detox. Not really detox. That will be whole other pathway. It will help you repair from damages. But the toxins are still there. The cells, I have not seen any reports of the cells help you detox. So but that can affect your brain function. So brain function, right. You need something to help you detox. I love infrared sauna, you know, you know, exercising, eating healthy. But there are some people are sicker or more toxic then they may need more specialized help. Dr. Pompa is amazing, he's all about detoxification. So you know, that may be a lot more involved to get someone to detoxify that way. But the stem cells can help improve vascular formation, enhance oxygen delivery to the brain for sure. And that could be one of the mechanisms that is helping with traumatic brain injury repair and with autism, of course it can help with stroke, you know, recovery from stroke. So oxygen, that's one way stem cells can help with brain health. It can also help by shifting your immune system. So a lot of our brain conditions is because of neural inflammation. There's so much inflammation not just in the body, but in your brain. If you can calm the inflammation, not only it can reduce your depression, anxiety or other neurodegenerative condition, you know, symptoms, but it can help you overall, you know, with the brain fog, with, with your overall just cognitive function by growing new blood cells, blood vessels, and by calming the immune system to make it more anti inflammatory. What's interesting is that if you make it less inflamed, there's evidence of stem cell therapy helping reduce alcoholism, reduce relapse behavior, alcohol relapse behavior. I've had patients, quite a few who were big drinkers before stem cells and then they just kind of lost interest. It was just wasn't as much of enjoyment or drive to drink anymore. So that can be also powered by inflammation in the brain. So stem cells can really calm the inflammation. In our clinic we do things that specifically target the brain. I mean we can add peptides that help the brain, but we use mannitol infusion prior to giving stem cells and that itself have antioxidant properties, but that can Open up the blood brain barrier so I can get a lot more cells into the brain. So together they're actually synergistic. So mannitol plus stem cells is great. And then ozone therapy, that's great too. Super oxygenation. But the cells reducing the inflammation, shifting your immune system to a less inflamed state to be more anti inflammatory. Which means it can start to regenerate, not be stuck in inflammation. As far as other issues that it can help with something like breaking down scar tissue, which is some, you know, modern medicine have nothing to offer really. But stem cells can do that. The anti fibrotic properties, I've seen it breaking down scar tissue in the lungs and liver or in musculoskeletal issues. So it can break down scar tissue, can rescue cells that don't have to die. So this is more and more like acute injuries like crush injury or stroke. Sometimes you know, the area that's crushed or the brain, the area that's cut off blood supply, those cells would die. That makes sense. You know, they don't have oxygen, but what happens is that the neighboring tissue end up dying as well. So your damage is way bigger than the area of insult. Because these damaged cells send out these signals to tell neighboring cells to go on program cell death, they trigger this cascade. So all of a sudden your stroke, you know, the affected brain area is so much bigger where you're, your tissue injury is so much bigger because of that cascade. The stem cells can rescue that. It can actually stop that cascade. You know, that's what's really fascinating. So that's called anti apoptotic. So you stopped the apoptosis, which is programmed cell death. But at the same time it has pro apoptotic properties when it comes to cancer. It tells the cancer to go to die. Right. So how do they know? You know people, oh, it's anti apoptotic. Well, other times it's pro apoptotic. So how do they know? I don't know. But so. And also these young cells, not from your own. Let's say we get stem cells from you, right, to use for yourself. We get it from your fat tissue or drill into your bone and get the bone marrow out and then give it back to you. Then you have the cells of your age and your cells would have accumulated the genetic changes that comes along with everything you've done in your life. And also your mitochondria from those cells will be the same age as your mitochondria. But if you get young stem cells with young fresh mitochondria. Those mitochondria actually, they've shown, can be transferred into your own host cells and elevating the energy of your. Of the host, you know, of the recipient of the cells. So there are various mechanisms why it can help organs such as the brain, including direct antimicrobial properties. So if you do have brain infections, which, you know, a lot of people actually do, you know, Lyme disease, why is it having all these neural symptoms? Is because it's affecting brain tissue. The stem cells actually have been shown to have direct antimicrobial properties. They can secrete peptides. They make peptides to kill off the microbes. Yeah. So all these are mechanisms of how it can enhance the brain recovery and rejuvenation.

Wow. I have so many questions. So one question I do have, this was something you mentioned earlier. You talked about the alcoholism, how you've had some clients who have moved into. Once they calm the inflammation, they moved into a place where they did not crave that alcohol. And I know that addiction is. Is so multi leveled and so multifaceted. But from a physiological standpoint, do you see that stem cell therapy is helpful in addiction in general when it comes to the physiological side of it?

Unfortunately, I haven't really treated, you know, in large scale anybody. I've treated, you know, some people with alcohol problems or even addiction. Well, not, not so much cigarette. I've done ketamine therapy, which helped with cigarette smoking. But as far as stem cel, definitely I've seen it help reduce a craving for alcohol. I would love to work with rehab centers and to actually, you know, use this to help repair the brains of people who used to, you know, have alcohol and drug addictions. I think it could probably bring about tremendous change. Yeah, there's a lot of damage that was, that was done and a lot of the neuroinflammation that's driving the behavior. So you just white knuckling, you make all these people white knuckle, which is what the rehab centers do. I was, I'm board certified in three specialties. Psychiatry, addiction medicine, and anti aging regenerative medicine. So I know addiction very well because I was a medical director for a few rehab centers in Malibu here. And that's the white knuckle system. Lots of psychotherapy. But what about physiological. What about, you know, what's going on biologically with these people? What's driving this behavior? Could there be all these toxic buildup or microbiome imbalance or they just don't have enough regenerative potential to calm the inflammation. So, so those need to be looked at. And, and probably I'm hoping some of the rehab centers are a little bit more pioneering these days. But I think stem cell therapy could be a really, really powerful tool.

And I agree with you. I feel like it has. You have to look at all of the pieces of the puzzle in order to truly bring somebody into a healing state. Right. You know, so I, I kind of, I kind of feel like it has a really strong place. But, you know, again, maybe more research needs to be done on that.

Yes, yes. Yeah, they've done animal. Fascinating. They are giving these rats free alcohol, 10% effers and then 20% for this one study gave them 73 days of 20% alcohol free. And then they cut them off. So they actually were looking at of them drinking, drinking, drinking. You give them stem cells. The drinking was cut back by about 70%. So tremendous amount. They just don't drink as much. So that's when they, they thought, well, maybe this is calming the inflammation that's driving this behavior. And then they also had another experiment where they give them all these access, you know, 73 days of access, and they cut them off. Kind of imitating a rehab situation. Right? They just cut them off. The rats are like, where's my alcohol? But then by day four, they were given stem cells into their brain, either, you know, control placebo or actual stem cells. The rats that got stem cells comparing to the rats that got placebo, their relapse behavior reduced by about 80%. So by the time, 10 days after they got the treatment into their brain, they're given free access to alcohol. The rats that got the stem cells, you know, they drank 80% less. So that's pretty powerful data. You know, that could have profound effect on this whole rehab, you know, industry really. I mean, there's too much, you know, repeat customers.

Wow. Well, the other big question that popped up as you were talking was about chronic, chronic infection, chronic inflammation, arthritis that has developed into more of that chronic state. You know, how, how far. When it comes to anti aging and using stem, stem cell therapy, how far into a chronic phase can someone see changes? I mean, can you be down years and years and years of chronic issues and then start to see some of the improvement or, you know, what have you seen in your research or in your, in your practice?

Yes, you can. You know, that's the beauty of just how resilient the human body is. If you give it the right signals and you give, you nourish the body right you don't keep putting toxins and, you know, not giving it nutrients. Right. And then you expect to it to repair. So you give it what it needs and you give the signals, signals being the stem cells or the peptides. And that can promote incredible repair. Yeah, I've seen that patients, you know, in, in into their mid-80s. Yeah. It can promote, you know, tremendous repair, but you have to, you know, don't, don't injure it at the same time. Right. Don't try to put, if you're trying to repair certain things, you don't want to hurt at the same time or you, you want to give enough nutrients to, you know, to provide an environment so the cells can actually make things work. But I think we underestimate just how much repair our body can, can. Can bring in.

Yeah. Wow. Well, okay, so let's talk about some myths, some myth busting here. When it comes to regenerative medicine, when it comes to stem, stem cell therapy and all the other things, therapies that you incorporate, there's a lot of hype, there's a lot of misinformation that goes around when it comes to anti aging regenerative medicine. What are some of the common myths that you'd like to bust for our listeners?

Yeah, well, one of the glaring myths is that people think that they have to go overseas to get stem cell treatment. I mean, it's just, it's, you know, people who are, you know, otherwise well informed and educated and. But the myth has been persisting probably to the delight of the clinics overseas. Right. I mean, it'll be that if everyone thinks you can only come out of the country to receive it. But what's interesting is that US, the United States is still that leader of stem cell therapy of the world. So the US has the most amount of research. The second largest is China. But US still is leading the world when it comes to stem cell research.

That actually blows me away. I can't, I can't believe that. Only because I feel like there is just not enough conversation around stem. Stem cell therapy.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

It's always greener. People say, I have to go to Europe and they're more advanced. No, maybe there sometimes they may do some interesting, innovative things. But in general, no, in general, the US Is actually, we're really leading the way when it comes to stem cell therapy and stem cell research. So even without the main, what do you call it, the social apparatus, the government, the entire rhetoric around stem cells, it's to the point where Google, Facebook or Instagram, and they would not allow doctors to advertise for stem cell treatment. And it's funny, they lump it in the same category as miracle cures. So I just, I laugh at it because it's just really, these are people, not medical people. Right. They don't have an understanding of what's going on in the research from around the world. And they get to make the decision of what's the miracle cure and what's real and what's not. It's just, it's really sad. But even in that under atmosphere, the doctors cannot advertise that they are actually providing stem cell treatment. How do you get the word out? You know, I get asked by doctors all the time, how do you get the word out? Well, not by advertising. So even without being able to do that, the number of clinics, stem cell clinics, have quadrupled in the last five years. This is how, how powerful. That's why I said, this is a grassroot movement. The grass is burning, right? We're, we're just, you know, it's not going to be stoppable, period. People want it and people. I've had so many doctors who are coming to me saying, I've got quite a few papers, patients asking for stem cells, I don't know how to do it. Can you teach me how to do this? So, yeah, so that's one myth saying that we can only go overseas. Overseas, they can do certain things that we can't do in the US Without a clinical study. So it's not like we just, we can't do it, but you can do it, such as growing the cells into huge numbers and then give it back to the person. We can't do it in this country unless we apply for a clinical study. Because when you start to replicate the cells in the culture medium in an incubator, the cells do have the tendency to decline in their quality. They start to change their genetic expression. They are more stressed, so they secrete more inflammatory molecules. So all these are things that are different in these cells and cells. Unless it's imperfect particular conditions, they tend to divide, even naturally. Remember I was saying the cells, stem cells tend to divide into one copy of itself, another copy of something just a little different, you know, getting more function, you know, getting more skills. So they have a tendency to do that. Anyhow, when you grow them in a culture, then they will end up growing a bunch of these daughter cells that have more functions. But if you imagine one cell divided into two, one is identical to itself, the other one is the daughter and then those two cells would divide again. So then that stem cell would divide into one stem cell, one daughter cell. The daughter cell is going to divide into two daughter cells. So then they keep dividing, Right? Then you've got a big pool of these further differentiated cells, which expresses more surface markers. Not only they've lost certain potencies compared to the original stem cell, but also they've gained all these surface protein expressions that can cause rejection, because then you're expressing what was in the donor that could be a mismatch with the recipient. And this is why, one of the biggest reasons, I think, behind why people are getting much more side effects when they go overseas, because they're getting expanded cells, these cells are expressing all these surface markers, and then in the culture medium, there's more inflammatory molecules secreted by the cells. So Tony Robbins says, oh, yeah, stem cells are amazing, fantastic. But you can expect that you probably are going to get cytokine storm. And it's funny that he would say that, especially since I've never seen a cytokine storm anytime in my entire eight years of treating patients using unexpanded cells. You don't get that. That's a side effect. That's a problem that you get because of your process. So people think more is better. Oh, I'm getting all these cells. I'm getting 100 million, 200 million, 300 million cells. First of all, research shows that there's a Goldilocks zone, that too much and too little is not good. But also there's research showing that when you use cells that are native cells, you exert certain benefits. And then you can give 10 times of those cells instead of 100,000, you give a million. But the 1 million are expanded. They've been grown liberally from a culture. Those actually give you less benefit than the hundred thousand native cells. So 1 million of expanded self give you less benefit than the hundred thousand native cells. That's. Yeah. So the expansion process doesn't mean that it's going to give you more of the good stuff. It could actually be detracting from the benefit. So that's a huge myth that I just see floating around everywhere. And, you know, including, because a lot of the celebrities have gone, you know, there's whatever, you know, different arrangements from these clinics and celebrities start to, you know, to endorse these clinics. Not that there are people, you know, that are getting, you know, I'm sure there are people who are getting benefits. I'm not gonna, you know, take that away from these clinics. I'm sure they've done a lot of things to really be very helpful for patients, but at what cost, at what potentials to cause problems. So if I have an option to give people great results without causing potential problems, the potential problem is actually not infrequent, then I'm going to go for the safest and the most effective way of treating patients. So I don't think people need to go overseas. I think they can get better treatments actually in the U.S. you know, unless, you know, there's a way to control these expansion process. Unfortunately, when you start to expand the cells, they do change. They change their genetic expression. So even with one passage there could be changes. So that's one of the biggest myths.

Thank you for going through all those because yeah, I feel like there's so much out there that really clouds the potential, the potential goodness in stem cell therapy and people really might not know what to think.

Yeah, yeah. And because I use umbilical cord derived stem cells, we talked about it a little bit earlier and I still occasionally get question like are you killing babies? No, we're actually waiting for a very happy birthing experience from the mother and the baby is totally fine, it's happy and we're just, you know, taking the cord that was going to be tossed. So. Absolutely not. And all the, the, you know, the product, product we use are all from us mothers who have gone through very stringent criteria and follow up and monitoring. So they do. I mean I know us prenatal care is better than those from overseas, but for our company, we actually make sure the mothers are eating a particular healthier diet, exercise with vitamin, certain vitamin regimen. So we optimize the health of the whole pregnancy of the baby. So yeah, the myth is that somehow there's, you know, babies harmed or you know, no fetal stem cells. I know is done in certain countries like Ukraine. I don't know how scientific it is as far as their method. I think umbilical cord, it's really a fantastic. Is not end all, be all. The field is evolving. You know, I don't want people to think, you know, oh, this is it, umbilical cord. That, that's, that's it. We found it. No, the field is evolving. Things are coming up. I'll continue to update everybody on new exciting breakthroughs. But right now as we speak, probably umbilical cord derived stem cells, the best we've got, the most potent and the safest. Yeah. So. And it has potential to keep people young. So you can't do anti aging using your Own cells. I'm sorry, you just recircling back and forth the moment you take. So that's another myth that oh, using my own cells will be better. I don't want other people's DNA inside of me. First of all, I have a lot of people's DNA in me after eight years of stem cell therapy every three months. But, and I welcome it. And it's a very tiny, tiny amount in the whole pool of the body. Not to mention most of the cells that's infused in the body will emit the signals, help you repair and die. Majority of them will die within one to three months. So that just, you know, they're not there forever. Nothing is alive forever once you activate them. So just, just first of all get that understanding. But also human DNA exchange is not an uncommon human experience. So I don't know if you know, 80%, not 80%, 60% of women have Y chromosomes in them, right? So you wonder where do they get Y, where XY chromosomes, how do we, I mean where XX, how do we get the Y chromosomes? So you know, one hypothesis, because they couldn't account for any other scenarios really. The, the, the, you know, the most obvious explanation is through sexual intercourse that we're actually taking, you know, it's like, okay, you have sex. Well, some cell stayed, you know, became part of you. So yeah, so it's not such an outlandish, extraordinary concept to have some other people's DNA in our body. You know, we're all human, we're actually very similar. So, so that's, that's that. But using your own means that you are extracting cells from your own body and your own cells will carry all the genetic changes and declines that you've accumulated over the years. The telomeres are shorter, they don't produce as much anti inflammatory molecules and they have less cancer detecting properties. So they may tell everything to grow. So if you do have, you know, a little bit of cancer here and there, which all of us have, it could tell it to grow more because it tells everything to grow. So that's a potential risk. And also when you extract cells, so I don't know if you've ever seen liposuction. And it's not, it's not minor either. It's like a lot of, you know, it's very vigorous, you know, getting that fat out, you know, suctioning it out. And so you're really suctioning out the blood vessels that are supplying the fat. And all along those blood vessels are those mesenchymal stem cells. So they're trying to get those. But you're creating an injury when you drill into the bone, usually in the iliac crest, you're drilling into your hip. And that is not a minor thing. It can really be painful. It's very invasive. So if you do infuse the cells into your body, that's one of the first places they will go to is the injury you just caused through liposuction or drilling of the bone. So they will try to repair that first. But also they, you know, they're activated, right, and they will help promote repair because the number circulating cells, stem cells, do reflect how fast and how well your body heal. So you can infuse the cells from your own body and enhance healing. And it does help and it does work. But then you, you have just depleted your own stem cell supply. Not, not completely depleted, but you diminished, right, you reduced your own stem cell supply because you brought them in, you activated them and then they died. So they're gone. But if you use cells from a younger source, you're not affecting your own supply. You know, you can keep bringing these very young, very vital cells that have high anti cancer capabilities and high anti inflammatory capabilities than your own cells. And then you can do that anytime you want repeatedly for anti aging purposes. So I think that's, that's a huge potential. And I just, you know, it's amazing that we can do it these days, you know, because I always think about like Elizabeth's, you know, Queen Elizabeth or you know, whatever, some, some incredible rulers, you know, in history. They may be radiant when they were younger, but then they all age and they all become old, you know, don't look so good, right? They all age and they probably have, they don't want to age. I'm sure they probably were trying everything. That's why there are all these emperors ascending, you know, these, these missions out to define the everlasting whatever the fountain of youth. And no one found it, but now we have it. It's not a forever. We don't have that yet. But let's say we can make you, we can prolong your use for another 20 years. How much is that worth? Do you want to decline promptly at age 50 or do you want to continue to have a great time and looking just as young until 70? Right? That, that's, that's a possibility now, which is what the experiment I'm engaging in, that I want to be an example. Because right now people say, oh, you're Asian, so you don't Age. I was like, that's bull. I'll show you. When I was 43, I was in an age, I was an aging Asian. I was aging, you know, but guess what? I reversed it. And don't take away my hard work because it's not that I'm Asian, you know, Asians age as well and decline and, but I have the tools and the discipline because I'm doing everything I'm preaching to my patients, including eating healthy, including exercising, doing infrared sauna, taking the supplements, doing the peptides and you know, using the laser light and then, and then doing stem cells. The stem cells is probably the most powerful, the, the easiest one. You just do it four times a year or even twice a year. The anti aging regimen is between every three to six months. So even if you can't do it once a year, that's still going to do you a lot of good. So, but I think, you know, my goal is to look exactly the same when I'm 75. Right. And then if I decline from there, okay, whatever. But I think we actually have the possibility of doing that and it's pretty cool because how would you like to make age, you know, the number, to just be a number? Right. It doesn't really mean a whole lot because right now you say someone is 40, you have an image in your head. Someone's 50 or 60 have an image. What if those numbers don't mean anything anymore? Right? You can say the person is 60, but the person looked like he's 40. So he's acting, he's living, all his organs functioning as a 40. So, okay, so the 60, me, anything. Yeah, so that's where we're at now.

Wow. Yeah. Well, you know, as we're, as we're wrapping up, I always love to give the listeners some practical advice so that they know how to move forward with this incredible, incredible information that you gave. Do you have any practical advice for someone who's considering stem cell therapy or other regenerative treatments?

Yeah, I would say you would do yourself a lot of favor by first trying it because it, even if there are patients, you know, even if they have that you don't have any problems, it literally can't bring back, dial back the clock and you may notice yourself functioning at a higher level even if you don't notice anything. I mean, how cool it is to know that biologically that you are being brought back to a younger state. And if people are not, not convinced, just go look at my lecture on YouTube. The Anti Aging benefits of stem cells Because I actually go through studies showing markers in animals, how they were going back to the younger state. So I think try, you know, giving it a try. I mean, there's no other way of doing it. But if you. Some people say I can't afford it. At our clinic, we actually do, you know, help people who have trouble affording it. If they're, they can show their income is lower, we give significant discounts. And to help them if they still say, you know, I can't afford it, or it's difficult to get. I mean, eating healthy, you know, these biohacking tricks, cold plunges, infrared sauna. And I think the skin takes some extra care, you know, use a really good product. I want to mention the product I use because I really love it. For the last four years, that's the only thing I put on my face. So it's called Chara Omni. So that's my creation of a 100% natural product that a cream that can replace everything. It can replace your, your serum toner eye cream, day cream, night cream. I don't like those complex regimen, you know, by the time you do buy all that, you know, you spend a lot of money. But with one cream, you can have this deep penetration of elements, including stem cells. So the stem cells are not alive, you know, I don't want to misrepresent, but all the ingredients in the cells, the exosomes, the growth factors, are able to penetrate deeper into your skin layers. And there are, you know, there are different peptides in there that promote regeneration. So if you want to get close to stem cells, you know, and you have trouble affording it, that's be something, you know, for skin health. Because I, I produced it partially because I did not want any synthetic ingredients, knowing all the potential problems of these hormone disruptors that are in cosmetics. But anyhow, so that's one thing if somebody wants, you know, something for, for their skin. But yeah, meditation, supposed to really be helpful, right? Helping a person, you know, tapping into the energy source and rejuvenate your system that way. So there, there are a lot of tricks. That's why there's this whole biohacking field.