How to Free Yourself of Food Addiction | Dr. Joy Kong & Errin Smith

Emotional eating is the emotion gets stuck in our body and it's like this. And then we want to eat the food to stuff, to soothe. And so when that emotion comes up, I go get myself moving. Because when you move, you can move the emotions out. So I'll either do that, I'll go to yoga, I'll go pick up some heavy weights at the gym, but I will move that out of my system. So any way you can do to move, even if you shake, if you scream, if you go punch a pillow, whatever you can do in that moment, get yourself to move. Hello.

Welcome Back to the Dr. Joy Kong podcast. So today we're covering a very important topic and I have the pleasure of inviting Erin Smith to be on our show. And Erin, thank you so much for being here.

Oh, man, thank you for having me, Joy. I just, it's such, it's so fun. Thank you. This is just my favorite thing to talk about and I'm so glad, so happy to be invited. So thank you.

Yeah. So the topic is emotional eating, which you can tell us, you know, what is the percentage of the population population who are actually engaging in emotional eating. But I want to introduce you a little bit to everybody. Erin Smith is known as that health chick on Instagram and she's an avid health and fitness fanatic who is expert trained in health optimization for over 15 years and has worked with world leading health Experts such as Dr. Zach Bush, Dr. Daniel Pompa, Mark Groves, and many more. So, Erin, I can't wait for this conversation because I think it's a very important one. So let's just start with how many people do you think struggle with emotional eating?

Oh my gosh, you know, more than we realize. But I think nobody talks about it because we have to eat every day. So it's like we're in this vicious cycle that nobody talks about. And women especially were emotional creatures. And you know, whether it's food or even alcohol, shopping, whatever it is, when stuff hits, when life hits and we're full of these emotions, I mean, we're turned into stuff if we don't have those tools. And I really, I think it's every woman that I talk to that I tell, this is what I do for a living. They're like, oh my God, I, I eat the bread, I eat the this, I do this and I do this. And that's totally me. I mean, all the time. You know, it's just because food has been celebrated our entire life, we've been wired to use food to celebrate when we're when we're happy, when we're sad, when we're bored at. In every event, and it's everywhere, and we have to eat every day. So it's just this sort of norm now. So I think it's a way more than what we realize. And that's why I'm here, because I want to help people with it, because I was struggling, too, and I was this health nut, health chick that knew everything in health optimization, and I was still struggling with it, so I had to do something about it. And that's why we're here.

Yeah. When did the emotional eating start for you?

Well, I didn't even know I was doing it, you know, like that. That awareness piece. But I'll tell you my. It started in my 20s, but rewinding back to my childhood, I got re. I got wired at a very young age, and it just compounded over time. So.

What do you mean? You were wired at a young age?

Yeah. So it started, you know, I was born in 81, where it's, you know, Costco food was a luxury food. My house was filled with Red Vines and croissants and processed snacks, and I was watching Oprah with my mom, you know, coming home from school and watching Goonies and no cell phones and, you know, I was this scrawny, skinny little girl that all I want to do is gain weight and look normal and get boobs like the rest of the girls.

Right?

Just when we're in that awkward phase growing up. And I played basketball, so my dad said, we gotta bulk you up so you look normal. We gotta put some muscle on you if you want to be accepted and be on the team and be liked, you know, you gotta gain some weight. And my mom's Italian, so she's always feeding me whatever I want at all times. And because I was eating processed food, you know, my. My. Our meals were like. Think of just like a basic. Everybody can relate to this. A basic piece of meat with white bread and butter and romaine lettuce for a salad with ranch dressing from the store and like the crappy, you know, store bough croutons that was a salad, you know, So I never knew everything was low fat in my house. So I never knew what real nourishment was. So I'm constantly eating because my body is saying, feed me some real food for. For f sake. Because I'm eating candy, I'm eating junk, and I'm constantly hungry. You wonder why? And I'm eating fake food. And so not only Did I have the fake food, lack of nourishment, but my dad trying to bulk me up, and my mom's Italian and wanting to gain weight and be normal, so you can see how that wir would compound. And I just got wired. I wasi was eating all the time when I was 16, 17, 18, and then that just fed right into college, but I was eating all the time. It would, it would be weird if I wasn't eating. It would. That's how flipped I was. Yeah. As far as my brain was wired that way. And then, you know, college hits, you gain the freshman 15, 20, and I'm like, finally, I gained weight. Let's keep it up. You know, I finally have. I have some boobs and I look normal. And then it just kept going and I just kept eating until I moved to California and I noticed, oh, everyone's eating salads and they're working out and, oh, I'm like whatever size I was. By the time I got out of college, I think I was a size 10 or 12. Just thinking that was good, which it is. Nothing's wrong with that. But I didn't know that I was just completely in this state of eating all the time. And didn't I wasi just wasn't aware. And so I moved to California, and then I got a job in the health industry, started realizing what real nutrition is, and it went from there. And I started learning, but I never. I got so into health and fitness and health optimization, and I was so on fire for thatthat piece, but I never realized that health was not just nutritional, not just, you know, healing your gut and detoxing, but it was looking at your emotions, looking at the spiritual aspect, looking at your traumas and triggers, looking at your self worth, looking at your ability to heal and youryour connection to nature. I mean, I didn'ti was so disconnected from the rest of it, but I didn't care because I was just so on fire for health. And then I developed this rushing women syndrome, where I was Ms. Boss, Babe, living in California, you know, doing my thing, crushing it for these awesome legendary doctors. I was working seven days a week, probably 12 to 14 hours a day. Developed rushing women's syndrome, where you're just constantly in fight or flight, eating out of your car. I was a sales rep, right? So I'm never sleeping, never breathing, eating out of my car, running to accounts, just like 20 accounts a day, sweat dripping down my my face, in my suit with my heels on. And you wonder. I come home and I just Inhale all the food and not, I'm not, I'm not giving, I'm not getting any hugs. I'm not seeing my nephews. My nephews live in a different state. My family's in a different state. I am just completely in boss mode. So I'm on airplanes, I'm living out of hotel rooms and blue lights everywhere and just recycled air and offices that just have no life to them. And everyone's, you know, just low energy. I just, I completely lost myself. Which is so fascinating that you could lose yourself still working in the health industry. But I just, I wasn't aware, you know, and so I would just develop these binge eating episodes no matter what. If it was, try vegan, try keto. I tried every protocol, fasting, all this stuff we can talk about, but at every marker of my career, I was eating all of the food as a way to numb, soothe, cope de stress, find some type of happiness. Because I had lost myself in this career boss babe mode. I was completely isolated and completely disconnected from myself.

I have in front of me all these photos which we're gonna post as we're talk. So this is what age you're talking about.

So that was in my 30s. You know, 30, 37 ish is when I was at my rock bottom, where I was at the height of my career and complete rock bottom. My face was inflamed, I looked like a zombie. Completely inflamed, overweight. I was binging on keto, which we can talk about because that was the thing that you did. And fat doesn't make you fat. And so I went all in on keto and that I was still eating seed oils from the keto, processed snacks and just completely inflamed there. And also working for a narcissist that was abusive, had no boundaries. We can talk about that too. But that is 37. 36. 37 is when it was my rock bottom. And I finally said, I gotta get out of this and figure out what is going on with me because I'm the queen of this health optimization and I am literally the most miserable I've ever been.

Hmm, I see. So in 2017, that's when you were 36. So when you were 34 in this first picture, you were very skinny. Was that this is before the stressful job?

Yeah, that was me going vegan and trying all the things. So I was vegan, working out, doing beach sprints in the morning and spin class at night. So all cardio, all vegan. Lost my period for a Year I tend to go really extreme. If you can't. If you can tell by now. And vegan lost my period. That's when my, one of my holistic doctors in Laguna beach said, girl, you need to eat a steak, you need some fat. And then right after that is when I discovered keto. So that's when I started, I went all in on keto and started binging on keto because one, I was so deficient on fat. And then sort of the dogma of fat doesn't make you fat. You can eat whatever you want. I just used that as a crutch to numb out and eat whenever I wanted and eat for every occasion to soothe what was going on with me.

Yeah, so in 2017, that's when you were 36. I see a picture where you've got a belly. I mean, it looks like you were pregnant. So that was while you were doing keto diet, right?

Yeah. So that was during my keto denial phase where I was eating some really incredible full fat probiotic yogurt. There's a place in Costa Mesa called the Fermentation Farm. It's these probiotic rich full fat cream yogurts. I was eating three, three a day. So that's like a vat of cream every day. Not joking. That's some real.

That's real.

And you felt amazing because all the bacteria goes to your brain. This serotonin, dopamine, you know, just all the good feelings. I, I gave someone, Dr. Pompa, he was obsessed with it too, but he would have like a scoop and I would eat the entire jar times three. And that caused so much sibo because I don't digest dairy. So it caused so much sibo, plus the stress of my job, plus I was eating the keto, erythritol snacks and the erythritol, those fake sugars. I just, every time I would eat, my gut would just blow up. And I remember at the gym, I was at a conference or doing something at some hotel gym, and I just remember taking that photo going, what is going on with me? You know, because I thought, oh, it's just, I'm just bloated, it'll go down. I'm so, I was so used to being bloated. And it was all the dairy that I was not digesting, plus erythritol and probably the seed oils, the stress and then leaky gut. And it was just absolute. People thought I was pregnant. When they saw photos, they, they said, girl, no, you are lying. You are totally pregnant. You know, I swear I'm not pregnant. This is legit. Yeah, yeah.

Don't lie to us. And then definitely later photos, you, you, I think got heavy. All right, I can see in that photo in 2018. And were you still on keto?

Yep, I was. I was binging on keto for at least three years.

And then a little bit later on that year, you just looked really unhappy.

Oh, yeah, that was. Yep, that, that was my rock bottom. That was. Erin's completely dead inside now and has completely lost herself and. But what we crave was born from that. So it's all good. But yeah, that was my abusive work environment that I was allowing because of my own self worth and boundary issues, which I learned a lot of lessons there. But yeah, that was all me. I was the one back then pointing the fingers at my toxic boss. And she did this and she did this and it was all, man, if I just would have turned that on myself and use the tool that I know now, I would have left a long time ago. But it served a beautiful purpose. But that was me not having any boundaries, no self care. My self worth was in the toilet for sure. Didn't even know I didn't have any. I was so disconnected from that side of health.

How did you turn it around?

Yeah, you know, I. Well, that photo definitely did it for me right there. I remember, I remember taking that photo going, you know what? I don't know what is going on with me, but I'm going to figure this out. And my first gut instinct was what I had left in my gut health. My gut instinct was, you need to leave California and you need to just remove yourself from this environment. Because I was in the heart of Orange county where it was just go, go, go. Just chaos all the time. And when you're in sales and you're in survival mode all the time, it just, just fight or flight all the time. And I remember I finally somehow got quiet enough and that's the key is I somehow finally got quiet enough to listen to my gut and just go, you know what? You need to get back to the mountains and just find peace. Just try and get into peace. Mountains, lakes, just something. It just. I remember just hearing that and magically my lease, I was living in Corona del Mar at the time. My lease was actually ending in a month and my little sister was having her baby. She did a home birth in Spokane, Washington. She said, I'm having my baby. I want you to be my push buddy. And that moment, my soul knew that was my ticket out. So I said, I couldn't have packed my bags faster. I didn't even look in the rearview mirror. I left California within that next month, packed up all my stuff, put it in storage, drove to Spokane, Washington and found a place in Coeur d', Alene, Idaho, and was there for her home birth. And I decided to just stay for a year. And then Covid hit. And during COVID I was cooking from home, I was sleeping, I got a new job. I basically just completely chilled out. And all of a sudden the weight starts going away.

Did you change the way you eat?

I just started cooking more Paleo, Just real food, right. I remember somebody telling me that, like, if you just eat real food, that that'll solve almost all your problems. And I said, it's gotta be harder than that. But it was just, you know, salmon with roasted brussels sprouts with olive oil and some sweet potato, right? Because I used to eat at True Food Kitchen all the time and I love their food. So I just replicated that because there's no True Food Kitchen where I'm at. So I started cooking those types of meals and sleeping, integrating. I don't know if you know who Barton Scott is. His upgraded magnesium made me sleep so deep. I was waking up refreshed, my cortisol was down. I was cooking from home with and not using any seed oils. So I was olive oil, avocado oil, ghee, butter, grass fed butter, coconut oil. And that's all of a sudden the weight starts coming off and something in me clicked. And then from there I started filming interviews. I started just diving into the emotional aspect of. Because there were still some things that I was uncovering about emotional eating. So I just went deep into the emotional stuff as I was sleeping and resting and taking care of myself during COVID And then I launched my summit shortly after that. It was 50 interviews of what is underneath emotional eating. So I just started learning. That's all I did. I said, if I can figure out what is going on with me as I'm healing in this peaceful place here, if I can figure out why is my brain doing this? What is going on? Why am I doing this? Because I know better, I'm still doing it. Why do I have the effort moment and eat all the things? And I just got a deep dive. I got a PhD in emotional eating, creating that summit. And once you learn everything that's underneath it, it's so much easier to get unstuck because you understand it versus just stuffing your emotions, right? So it just takes a minute to be quiet enough to listen and follow the steps. Right. And here we are.

Yeah. So for people who struggle with it, they probably, you know, are eating when they are stressed, when they're sad, when they're lonely, or even when they're happy, it becomes something that's, that's a crutch, right. To boost everything. What do you say to them? Because they obviously are overeating. One is overeating, one is so over calorie. Or they are eating things that they shouldn't be eating. Right. If you're just grabbing things that's in front of you because you want to quickly feel better, then you probably put in things that really are not conducive to your health. So what do you think will be the steps that they can take to help them get out of that rut?

So there's so many. And again, my summit goes through the deep dive. But just from what I can help with right in this moment, some of the best things that I did for myself usually, again, this is my experience, but what I see a lot of women doing is we're going way too fast and we're not slowing down. And when we're going too fast, whether that's being the mom, being the boss, babe, whatever it is, we're not just slowing down to love ourselves enough to sit down, eat a meal of food. We're rushing. And then when we rush, we grab the snacks. And when we grab the snacks, we are never nourished. The snacks causes us to eat more snacks and more snacks and more snacks. Because your body is saying, girl, I need some real food. Give me some real food. I needi need a grass fed beef burger, right? Or something with nourishment and protein and fat. And so one, we're going too fast and also we're not sleeping. So for me, those are thethe two biggest things. I think the number one thing is sleep. Because you could be doing everything right, but if you're not sleeping, it like you're not gonna get anywhere because your cortisol's gonna be too high and you can't heal, you can't recover, right? You're with anti aging medicine. I mean, sleep is the number one thing to recover and to regenerate. And if you're not sleeping, you will be stuck in emotional eating because your ghrelin and leptin is all over the charts. You're gonna be a bottomless pit. Because I know, because it happened to me, I was so sleep deprived, I would just eat all day, all day. Fat Bombs, keto, protein balls, just whatever I get my hands on at the office.

To keep up your energy, Was that.

To keep up my energy? Because I was, yeah, I was traveling the east coast, west coast, you know that time change, working 14 hours a day, it just, yeah, you're just. And I was like, I deserve it. I work so hard, I'm just gonna, you know, eat whatever I want. So that was slowing down and sleeping also I think again, this seems so simple but just eating real food. I know when somebody told me that I said you've got to be joking me. But right. Because there's the gluten free snacks and the organic snacks. If you look at the grocery store, it is full of processed, even whole foods, it is full of processed snacks. And I know there's some really solid snacks at healthy grocery stores, but anything that is processed, I noticed I just would keep eating things all the time. So if I could sit any of your listeners down and say, let me cook you this yummy plate of food. Let me give you a grass fed beef burger with some vegetables, roasted sweet potato. Let me give you the most beautiful plate of food and then you tell me what your cravings are like. After that you tell me if you're nourished or if you're craving more. I guarantee you won't, you'll be so nourished. So focusing on, I've adapted more of a carnivore style diet and that was the protein intake was a game changer for me. So because you know, most women it's like, well, I'll just have a salad with chicken on it or I'm vegan so I'll just have plant based protein which is again, nothing's wrong with it. But for me, when I didn't have the protein that, and I'm not talking chicken, I'm talking grass fed, grass finished beef that is game over. And I, I don't know if you have read the book Forever Strong by Gabrielle Lyon but she's constantly talking about protein intake for women and it's again, it seems so simple. But once I started increasing my protein I said to myself and because it would be like a little bit of beef once a week, twice a week and then salmon and chicken. But when you go grass fed beef two times a day, every day. Right. Sometimes even three depending on. Because I do CrossFit. Right. A lot. So I need a little bit more. But I'm very active, cold plunging, all the things. But when you increase that, you have a grass fed beef burger for Breakfast and you watch, you watch your entire day change, you know, maybe put do a lettuce wrap with a fried egg on top and some little bit of avocado and you have that for breakfast versus some yogurt and some granola. You will watch your cravings completely. They will get smashed and it will change your life. And I said, if women knew this, you know how many women I could help with binge eating disorders if we just had more protein and fat for breakfast in the morning. It seems like this can't, this can't be it. So of course you need, you know, there's other things you need. But that was absolutely. I have never felt more grounded, more peaceful, more nourished, more calm. I didn't have the anxiety and the, I'm hungry all the time. What can I eat? You know, None. It was just. Yeah, so good.

You know, it feels calming to just hear your suggest that because that means people have to slow down and prepare a beautiful and nutritious meal. Just hearing that, I think it's, it feels good. It's a good experiment. You know, people should give it a try, you know, earlier in the day, have a really full, you know, nutritious, maybe more meat based meal and see if that changes how they feel throughout the day.

And I know that, you know, it won't work for everybody, but on the majority again, you read that book by Gabrielle Lyon, you will realize how protein deficient women are. And that's contributing to muscle, which is your longevity organ, right, which keeps you young, you know, and just there's so much connected to protein and weightlifting. Just not weightlifting, but lifting heavy. Right versus cardio, that will completely change your life. I'm noti cannot stress that enough. And then if you start to just look into the carnivore diet, I do a more of a modified version. I'm not strict. This is the same with Benazotti where, you know, I'll have my grass fed beef burger in the morning and at lunch or you know, I do a few things in between my day. I'm not super hardcore strict, but for about 85, 90% of the time that's what I'm eating. But I'll integrate this beautiful yummy coconut milk coffee shake that's just incredible and berries and honey and you feel like you're cheating life. Like I don't count, I don't count calories. I just, I lift weights five days a week. I'm, I work on all the health optimization things and I eat more of that modified carnivore I cycle in carbs around myaround, my period just for hormones and things like that. And I feel like I'm cheating life. And that's my biggest. I want to give that to every single female out there because I know what it feels like to feel stuck and have, you know, this extra weight and this inflammation, and then you just say, eff it, and you just keep eating all the things. I know how it feels to be stuck. And every woman deserves that vibrant, beautiful glow and the body they want, the health they want. And that's, to me, that's where it all changed.

Yeah, wonderful advice. So you said you've been doing keto. I mean, that sounds like it's been quite a while, but you're not strict about it. So can you talk about what are your concerns about just keto diet in general and what are the blind spots for people when they do it?

Keto's been very popular for a long time. And man, when I first tried it, it was like all the lights came on the heavens, you know, the clouds parted in the heavens and the sun was shining down on me. It was just like the angels were singing. Because I was so fat deficient. I didn't have any fat in my body. I was vegan. I was. So when I had my first sip of bulletproof coffee, I was obsessed. I felt amazing because I finally got some fat in my body. That's another thing a lot of women are missing for their hormones, that good saturated fat. But so when I took that sip of coffee, I was hooked. So I wasi was keto for life. But that's the thing is you wanna do keto, but not forever, because what, what Ben talks about this. I know a lot of people are talking about this, where keto is incredible for a person like me who's super fat deficient. Keto's also incredible if you have cancer or some chronic disease where you have to get the inflammation down. Dr. Pompa talks about fasting all the time with keto, and there's strategies and protocols for that. But what I'm noticing for me, because I went all in on the fat and my protein was too low, I ended up binge eating on all the keto things because my body was really craving the protein because I had had enough fat. I got all the fat in my system, got the gas tank filled up with fat, but the protein was so low because when you intermittent fast, right, you know, all the protocols, sometimes the protein's a little lower because you don't want to break your fast, all these things. For me, my protein was too low, so I kept eating more fat instead of just increasing my protein. And Ben talks about this a lot. Where you want to do keto for a while until you get that inflammation down, you get fat adapted and then move more into a higher protein, more carnivore style. Because it just, your body needs to. When you get used to something, right, you have toyou, gotta switch it up. And I noticed after two, three years, I wanted. I was binge eating keto, fat bombs, keto snacks, anything that was keto. Keto ice cream had a ton of erythritol sweeten. Those sweeteners got me. That's where my gut really busted open. Like I was saying before, and all I needed was just more protein. So I think that's thethe pitfalls of keto is, well, just because it's keto, I can eat it. And I was suppressing all the other emotional crap that was underneath my bingeing. I was just thinking, oh, I'mI'm this boss, babe. I work so hard. I deserve it. Fat doesn't make you fat. Let's just go all out and, like, enjoy everything. I'd go up to the Bulletproof Cafe in Santa Monica and just go get everything on the menu, right? Because it was keto. And so over time, that's where I realized, oh, I'm literally finding my happiness in food. Food is my boyfriend. Food is my best friend. Food is my everything right now. Because I'm not looking at all my emotional stuff that's underneath that I'm stuffing. And so once you sort of have that awareness, then you can, then you can pull the pieces apart and really dismantle what's going on. But just because healthy doesn't mean it's good for you and you're not suppressing something else, right? Because again, just because it's healthy, it doesn't mean that you should absolutely binge on it. And that was my. That was my get out of jail card forever.

That's the other thing. It's not necessarily healthy. Even, you know, just because somebody is labeling things as keto, there could still be bad oil in it, could still, you know, have ingredients that probably it's gonna cause issues. So. And people think that as long as it's labeled keto, then they can just eat. But of course, you can do calorie overload as well. So as far as protein, what's your suggestion for people to get adequate protein intake? Like, let's say for a Woman, she wants to increase her protein intake to make sure she gets enough. What, what's your suggestion? How much is enough?

Again, I'm all about getting all the research from all the doctors, the podcasts, you know, just, and seeing, seeing what's out there because from what we've learned, it's not a one size fits all for everybody. Right. I'm almost six feet tall. I do CrossFit five days a week, cold plunging, hot yoga. I'm very active. So for me I am going to have more protein intake than let's say someone who is shorter than me and maybe just doing a gentle yoga class. Right. But again, Gabrielle Lyon, her book is amazing for all the details on this. But what I found that works best is, you know, I weigh 165 ish, I think right now. I haven't weighed myself a long time, but I put on a lot of muscle and I try and get that much in protein every day or a little less.

So one gram per pound, that's pretty much your, your rule of thumb.

And it might be a little less if you're not as active. But that's what I feel really good on. And again, I don't track my, I don't, I don't track, I go by the way I feel and I just monitor around my cycle. I will completely eat way more because I'm refueling with our cycles which is really important. I will have easily a pound of grass fed beef a day. Like it's just, I can and I feel amazing on it. So. And I know some guys that are more active and weigh more will do one and a half times, twice that much. So I think I'm a little high for, because of my height and my activity. That's what I feel really good on. And if you see my, my, my pictures like I completely transformed with weights and adding more protein. Right. But it's the right protein.

Yeah. But what do you say about the fact just because you're getting enough protein doesn't mean that you're getting enough amino acids. The right amino acids, the essential one.

Yes. So I take body health aminos. They are, from what I've seen, they're the best in the industry from all the conferences. Yeah, perfect amino. And I feel so good. So if I, let's say I'm doing half a pound of grass fed beef and I'm traveling the rest of the day or what I'll, I'll, I'll substitute with aminos and that's where I notice that is where I Notice I feel so good and nourished in my cravings. You know, if I have any cravings, let's say I'm traveling at a conference, right. That just smashes it because you're getting everything that you need. So if you're not gonna do the grass fed beef or you're gonna do a little bit of beef and a little bit of whatever feels great for you, I absolutely bring in the Aminos 100%. I believe in those with all my heart.

Yeah. And you mentioned issue with erythritol. Can you tell us a little bit more about. Because of course anyone who's into keto diet may end up encountering adding quite a bit of erythritol, thinking that's get out of jail free card, right? You can eat whatever amount you want. So what are your thoughts on.

That's exactly where I was. I said, oh, this is a healthy sweetener. You know, in, in the grocery stores it's labeled, you know, amazing sugar alternative and low blood or you know, keto friendly. And so I was baking with it, cooking with it, you know, or just, just eating it all the time because I thought, well, it's, you know, it's not sugar and we gotta keep our, you know, blood sugar stable and I sugar low on keto, so it's okay. And then more and more and more doctors are coming out saying it destroys your gut bacteria. Do not, do not ingest this. It is a marketing scam. And unfortunately, I mean I'm a vic, not a victim. But I mean my stomach fell victim to the absolutely proved what it can do. And so the Splendas, obviously, hopefully everyone knows that Splenda is terrible for you. Do not touch that. That's, you know, a 90s version of, you know, all the sucralose, all that fake sweetener stuff. Don't touch that. Stevia came out, you know, and I went all in on stevia too. And now, you know, it's very highly processed and I know that contributes to some gut issues too. And when the erythritols and the xylitols came out, I went all in on that. So again, it's just anything that's highly processed is just your body's not going to jam with it. Simple, you know, it's just going to cause issues. And for me, the gut issues were unreal. And when I finally got off the train of the snacks, the snacks with the seed oils, the snacks with the, the erythritols, the xylitols, even if it's organic and gluten free. When I stopped eating all of that just focused on replacing that with a grass fed beef patty or a hard boiled egg or protein and the inflammation went down. II said, oh my God, I've struck gold. Is it this easy? But not only does it mess up your gut bacteria, but I feel like it justit blocks you from weight loss. Like it just completely disrupts your entire system because your body cannot process. It's like you're dumping all this chemical sweetener and it's still a chemical, it's still processed. You can't. It just blocked. It just blocked so much. And when I got off of that and the seed oils, game changer. Then I just worked on. I just used honey. You know, I went on the more on the carnivore side of things. You can absolutely use honey. And honey is just so medicinal and incredible. That's my go to, you know, for everything. Yeah.

What about monk fruit and stevia?

Yeah. So monk fruit. Thank you for saying that because I just completely forgot monk fruit. I feel like there's been a lot of practitioners that have told me why aren't people. Where's the monk fruit? Monk fruit is so safe. Let's bring this in and kick stevia out. You know, so I've seen it in a lot of products that a lot of people are kicking out the stevia and adding in the monk fruit. I don't have enough, you know, research on it, but I know that if you're gonna do a sweetener, monk fruit is the top like best and then honey. So even though monk fruit is again, I don't know how processed it is, but I know going more monk fruit and, and honey and that, that's more way on the way better option. So how do you feel about it?

I love monk fruit. I think a little bit of stevia is, is fine too. I don't mind either of them. Yeah, I know there's some monk fruit actually are a combination product with erythritol. There's. There are a lot of them of them out there. So I make sure that I only get the monk fruit extract. I didn't want to. Yeah. Add something. There's still. At the time when I looked into it, there weren't enough of evidence, you know, of the problems with erythritol. But I just, I wanted to, you know, steer more toward the natural. Natural path. Yeah, absolutely.

I know it's in everything too. The seed oils and the fake sugars are in everything. And that's why you get such an amazing result if you can just get those out of your system. But replace it with healthy nourishing foods. You're not missing any of the sweet, sweet tooth stuff. You just gotta replace it and find an amazing alternative. Which in my health optimization guide, that cough, that full fat coffee shake that I was telling you about, that's in there, that's what I swapped it out with. And it was so easy to just get off of the snacky sugary stuff because thatthat makes your cravings go wi way crazy by the way the all the erythritols makes your cravings way worse. And once I got off that and just added in that beautiful yummy full fat espresso coffee shake with the bone broth protein that I was talking on Ben's podcast as well, that's when it was so easy to get rid of the seed oils and all the, and the snacky stuff because you're so nourished you just don't crave anything.

Yeah. And you also mentioned, I mean I, I, I know you have been into carnival diet as well. Right. But then you also talked about keto. So are you switching back and forth, you know, for people who don't know the difference? Maybe you can explain a little bit.

Yeah. So with, you know, I'm definitely more carnivore for sure. I've been since about last year and right before then I was more in the paleo space because I was, I'd gone so far into keto and just had, you know, was all the things with keto. You saw my photos and so with really the difference is keto is a much higher, higher fat diet that again it's real food, it's early, it's supposed to be real food but higher in fat and carnivore is more higher in protein and you're getting your fats from the food. So for me I wouldhere's an example, I would do a keto fat bomb, right. And it's coconut oil, cacao powder, plant based protein and I would make these little fat bombs and I would probably eat a bucket of them in a day, you know, because the just again I just wasn't getting enough protein. So with keto it's more about higher fat adding more fat. The butter, the coconut oil, if you do it right, you're supposed to do whole food keto where it's just you're getting the fat from the salmon, you're getting the fat from the olives, you're getting the fat from the, the beef and then adding in some more, you know, if you're intermittent fasting with coffee, things like that. But I just, again, most people just, just eat so much, way too much fat than they need to. Whereas carnivore, you're increasing your protein and you're getting yourall, your fat from the food inside the protein because that's the best source. So for me, having dumping stuff with coconut oil, dumping stuff with, you know, just, just focusing on getting the fat from the food is game changer. So I think that that's the biggest mistake people are making is it's not whole food and they're eating way too much fat and they need to just eat real food. And then carnivore, you get to increase that protein and you can feel the difference. So some people love keto and they feel amazing where they're at. But for me, I noticed when I just increase the protein, that's what, that's what I stopped craving food.

Yeah, yeah, of course you can be carnivore and keto.

Yes.

So, but you just have a higher ratio of the protein and without the plants. So. So you are a fan of reducing the plant food intake.

You know. Oh man, I, it took me forever to wrap my head around that because I love roasted Brussels sprouts and I love sweet potato and I love all my veggies. I mean, I used to eat a bowl of kale, you know, back in my vegan days, like this big, right? And I just, and of course I bloated like crazy. But I remember going, wait a second. Vegetables have oxalates. And I started learning about oxalates and then I started learning about, you know, just all the things in these plants. And I just remember, I remember following Paul Saladino going, you've got to be. No way. Plants. What? Plants are our friend. They make you like they're plants and they're, you know, they have fiber and all the nutrients. And when I took them out again, I had sibo from all the binge eating and when I took them out, I felt so much better. So I'm a fan of it. If you're trying to fix your gut, if you're trying to optimize your health, just take a break from them and see how you do. And when you eat more grass fed beef, the nutrients are coming from the cow that's eating the plants and it's coming from the soil. So you still get, still get the nutrition from the soil that the plants would get. But I noticed that I felt way better with less vegetables. So I just took them out for a while. And then, you know, I was at a friend's house and we made this yummy meal and she made roasted brussels sprouts and sweet potato in this beautiful meal. And I totally enjoyed it. And I, I didn't feel bad. I didn't, I didn't. I noticed I barely bloated, but because I had taken a break for, for so long from the plants that I did fine. But if I, I know if I would reintegrate more brussels sprouts and more vegetables, I know I'd probably start bloating again. So I think for me, if it works for you, you know, it' syour body kinda justit lets you know if it's working or not. But I thinki think there's a time and a place where you can cycle those in. But I think overall we're probably eating too much if it's got the oxalates in it and the, you know, just, just the little things that are making our guts really mad. Because I've been eating so many vegetables for so long, you know, it's probably time for a break.

The bottom line is everybody is different because if you look at, you know, areas in the world that has high longevity, certainly plant based is pretty common. I mean that's, you know, it's a common theme. So. But I think it depends on what kind of plants are eating. Um, do they have, you know, toxic, you know, ingredients or, you know, pesticides and everything that's, that's comes with it and also your own genetic makeup.

Absolutely. So.

And I know some people thrive on a high carb diet, so I'm not gonna say that's not valid because it could be the perfect diet for some people, maybe for those people for some time.

Absolutely. And that's what I used to be so caught in the dogma of. No, it ha. Everyone should be on keto. Everyone should do this. Man, I got humbled so hard because it's not a one size fits all. Everybody's different. My genetics are different than other people's genetics. But I was, you know, inhaling food, my gut was never resting. I was taking these huge bowls of kale, you know, and just my gut was overloaded. So it makes sense that I would do well on, on carnivore and reducing that inflammation. But I know some people that feel amazing on vegan. I know a lot of people that feel amazing on, like you said, there's Mediterranean, there's other amazing diets that people do really well, on. So I. I'm all about do what's best for you, but when it stops working, then switch things up and see what. See what does. Because if you. I know if you do one thing for too long, you know, your body adapts. And then again, Dr. Pompa talks about this a lot, where it's good to switch things up ifif you're getting bloated, if you're feeling like crap, you know, don't pigeonhole yourself. I have to be vegan my entire life or I have to be keto, or I have to be in the box. I'm. I've completely. That's the one thing I wish the health space would talk more about, is you gotta do what's right for you. Mm.

Well, you also coined the term denial keto. What does that mean?

Yeah, I'm so proud of that one. That was when. That was when I was in my. The yuck of my life, in that deep quicksand, stuck, hopeless, miserable, hating myself in life energy from all the lessons I was learning from, you know, the lack of boundaries, the lack of standing up for myself with the toxic job. You know, I was suppressing all of it. And I was so miserable. That's when my miserable photos were popping up. And I remember, I just. I would. Again, I would go to the Bulletproof cafe. They have like, a vat of, you know, that yummy keto ice cream does that erythritol in it. And that's when I would say, I don't care. I'm totally gonna eat all the things. I'm in complete denial of one. My state. I don't want to look at anything in my life and take responsibility for anything. I just want to numb and stuff. So that's one way that I used keto to deny that. But also, I was in denial what I was just talking about with the dogma. I was in denial that keto, I could do keto wrong and do it too much and that fat could make me fat because I had been brainwashed to think, well, you can eat as much fat as you want. Fat doesn't make you fat. So I was in denial of that. I didn't want to hear it. I didn't because it was such a crutch and it was such a joy to me. It was my. Again, it was my boyfriend, my best friend, my everything at that point, you know, that I didn't want to hear that you can gain weight on keto. I don't want to hear that. There's Erythritol in that. And that's gonna cause problems with your health and your gut. And you'll probably gain about 20 pounds. And it's gonna inflame you. Cause there's seed oils in it. You know, I didn't want to hear any of that. I just wanted to eat all of the food and numb out. And once I realized, like, hey, Erin, your body doesn't need that much fat, you know, I remember Dr. Pompa was gonna tell me. He saw me in this state, in this chaos, eating, right, this anger eating, and just, you know, numbing out with all the things. And he saw me putting on the weight and sort of this energy, just sadness. And he told me, he's like, I was. I was gonna come up and tell you, you know, what's going on with you, but I just. I didn't want to. And I said, I'm so glad you didn't come up to me and tell me that. Because, one, I wouldn't have heard it. I didn't want to hear it, and it wouldn't have led me to my purpose. So I'm very grateful that you didn't tell me that. But I was in such denial that a keto diet could be bad for you. Or you can get fat on keto, or you can, you know, if you're going to binge on keto, you know, I just, I. I thought that fat would never make you fat. So it was just an excuse for me to numb out. And I wanted to stay in that hatred.

That'S extreme you were talking about.

Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. And, you know, again, that's everyone. Everyone wakes up on their own time. Everyone gets that shoulder tap at their own time where they. They finally are, you know, can see that. They put the mirror in their face going, you know what? There's some stuff I gotta look at. But I just. I just didn't want to for a long time. But I. Once I was ready, I was ready and I went all in. So I think that's with health. You know, there's. There's all these pillars, like we were talking about. There's all these pillars of health. But if we're not looking at the emotional stuff and all of our shit and our triggers and our belief systems and our. And our connection to nature and that spiritual pillar, the mental, emotional, spiritual pillars, like, if we ignore that, that stuff will come up, literally come up in our life. And for me, it was just with eating. And some people, it comes up with shopping with, you know, Porn, alcohol, doesn't matter. But it will come up. And it comes up for a reason. It's a good thing when it comes up, it's trying to. To get you to pay attention to it. Right? It's the shoulder tap. Like, girl, you got, like, we gotta look at something. I'm trying to uplevel your life, but you. You keep. You're stuck. Let's. Let's look at this so we can alchemize it and move forward and heal, you know, and that's part of healing, is you. If you're not looking at that pillar, I feel like optimal health justit just doesn't. You just don't get there, you know, until you look at thatat all that stuff. It's part of the equation. Just like looking at gut health, toxins, you know, looking at any type of health protocol, that's the most important, and it's the one that gets missed the most.

Yeah, and one thing I love what you've shed light on is really what's behind emotional eating and the cravings. So what you are telling, you know, people is that this is not food that you're craving. It's. It's actually other things that you're craving. Can you expand on that?

Oh, yeah. It's. It's my favorite, favorite thing to talk about. You know, I remember. So in every interview, I ask every person this. At the end of the interview, at the end of the day, when we're reaching for the food, when we're craving what we're craving, what is it that we're really craving? And everyone has the most beautiful, amazing answers. And I remember interviewing Zach Bush, and this one hit home for me. He said, you're craving you. You are craving you. And that is, again, my summit goes into every, you know, pillar, every nook and cranny, every detail of what. What it could be related to. But there you. You have been disconnected from yourself at a. At an emotional, spiritual level. And you're craving, essentially, you're trying to reconnect to yourself and feel something. And food is giving you that. That connection. So it's somewhere along the way, you lost a connection to yourself. And it's just your soul trying to reconnect and feel and find happiness and joy because you're not giving it to yourself. And so when you're not giving it to yourself, that's, you know, this whole open door to so many things. It's related to worth. It's related to subconscious wiring that we pick up when we're kids. You know, it's related to perfectionism. There's so much that has nothing to do with food. But at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to, is you're just craving you. And you've got to figure out what it is and how to get that back, and that's your own spiritual quest, you know, because what I'm craving in my heart is different than what you're craving in your heart. Right? Based on our childhood, based on where we grew up, based on our wiring. And so when you take a deep dive into that and you look at it and you dismantle it and you figure out, oh, I was just craving the love I never got from my dad, or, oh, I was just craving, you know, the fill in the blank, and you give that to yourself. That's what it's all about. It's. How do I find peace and happiness from the inside out? And I know that sounds very basic, but that's what it is. We're craving peace. We're craving connection. We're craving to feel again because we lost along the way, you know, because when you think about if you're at a wedding or the super bowl or, you know, you're. You're hanging out with your girlfriends, laughing, you know, in that moment, you're not thinking about food because you're so happy in that moment. Right? That's what it is. Right there is finding what that is and giving it to yourself. So it's. And it has nothing to do with food, Right? It's got to be something else from the inside out. So for me, it was the relationship with my dad I had to heal. It was my relationship from a spiritual standpoint with God because I grew up in a religious household. So I pushed that away so hard for years. And so I had no spiritual connection. And once I finally looked at that, it took me years and years and years. A lot of. A lot of rock bottoms, a lot of rugs being pulled out from underneath me, which were all trying to get me to look at this once I did, and I finally surrendered it. There's a piece now in my heart that I've never had before. So I know that that's. You know, and I'm not religious at all. It's just. It's a spiritual connection, not in the. It's. It's. It's a relationship just with yourself and your own spirit that you can't even describe or put a label on. It's just a deep, deep connection that you have to Figure out on your own. And when you find it, I think that's when the cravings go away, the need to reach for the food go away. Because you're finally connected, Right. So it seems like the easiest thing. It's just how do we get there?

Yeah. Which lead me to a very practical question. If a person is a little stressed running around and really feel like grabbing something to, you know, feel a little better, to give them a little boost, but probably is not the right thing to eat or the right time, it's really just a kind of an emotional reaction. What's the tip that you give them? How do they handle that moment?

Yeah, it's so good. Because, you know, when I was in that space, no one could have told me, hey, try this tool instead. I was like, you know what, I need to just eat my feelings right now. So I get it. There's gonna be times where it's. It's like I'm going to have the healthy alternative gluten free cookie or the smoothie at Cafe Gratitude or whatever it is. Sometimes you just have to have the thing and then get your butt into yoga class or get your butt into the, the park and go walk or call your girlfriend or journal, Right? Like sometimes it's just gonna happen. It happened to me a couple months ago where I just, I still. Something came up. I was like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna have the donut, my little healthy keto, like yummy little treats that I have. And then I'm gonna go fix, I'm gonna go look at this, right? So if it does happen, give yourself some grace. Because I think if we are too much like this, we will just binge and eat 20 of them, right? So don't restrict, give it to yourself if you need it and then. Right. Then pull out your toolbox. But it's just because a lot of us don't have the tools yet. Then, you know, that's why it still happens. We just don't have the tools. But when we do have the tools, like if I know, okay, I'm having an emotional response right now. The easiest thing you can do is one, focus on your breathing. And I know that seems so just ridiculously simple, but when you can control the way you breathe, you can control your thought, your thoughts and your actions. You can choose, you have a grip on your choices, right? So I have to talk to myself, get my breath squared away and start breathing again. And then I get my butt outside and I get in fresh air and sunshine and I start Moving. Because what happens with emotional eating is the emotion gets stuck in our body and it just, it's like this, it's, it's like. And then we want to eat the food to stuff, right? To soothe. And so when that emotion comes up, I go get myself moving. Because when you move, you can move the emotions out. So I'll either do that, I'll go to yoga, I'll go pick up some heavy weights at the gym, but I will move that out of my system. So any way you can do to move, even if you shake, if you scream, if you go punch a pillow, whatever you can do in the, in that moment, get yourself to move. Don't just sit there and sit on the couch and start calling people and texting people, because that emotion will, will absolutely turn into a monster. So start moving fresh air. And then take an hour and go chill, go get until you feel like you can get that out of your system. Then come back and start, if you can, when you're in a good space, start journaling or writing or getting that on paper. Because what's happening is when you get triggered. Triggers are a beautiful roadmap to unfinished business. That's one of my favorite lines. Mark Groves, I think, said that, that it's a beautiful invitation for us to go inward. And so when I would get triggered, it was because my narcissistic boss forced me to stay up till 4am working on a last minute project out of the blue, like it's 1pm I need you to stay up till 4am and do this project. And I would say, okay, no problem. I don't have any kids or a husband. I'll do it because I want my gold star. My stamp of approval had no boundaries. And I would get some so mad when she would call me, I would have a visceral reaction. My neck would get all red and I would just freak out and I would shake the rest of the day. And so that's for me, when that happens, when it does, that's the trigger coming up saying, hey, girl, you got to look at your boundaries. You got to look at your worthiness. You got to look at being a doormat and letting people walk all over you. Why aren't you saying no? Why aren't you saying, you know what? I have, I'm unavailable. I have a commitment. I'm not going to be able to do this. It's going to have to be late. I'll get to it on Monday. What is it in me? There's. There was codependency. There's people pleasing man, people pleasers. We are very emotional, very much emotional eaters because we're pleasing. And we won't. We won't honor ourselves. Right. And have boundaries. So it's always about just looking at the trigger and what is coming up, and it's always an invitation for a mirror for us to look at ourselves. So it's never about the person that triggered you. It's always about us and where we. Where are we? What's going on with our wiring? What did we learn as kids, These belief systems, what's going on that. Why does Erin have fear to stand up for herself and have a boundary, you know, so once you dismantle it, you can look at it and you can change it and you can rewire it. There's tons of amazing coaches and specialists that are all about rewiring the brain. But until you can get there, just start journaling what's going on with me? Why do I do this? Okay, my boss triggered me. Why did she trigger me? Because it's never about the thing. It's everything underneath it. So if you can just map out the behaviors, where did you learn it? And how. How can you look at it in just this beautiful way? Give yourself compassion and try to, as best you can, love on that inner child that's in there, because all it is is an inner child that is not feeling love. So if you can find a way to give that little girl inside of you love, and whether that's wrapping your own arms around yourself and saying, it's okay, I got you, you're safe, whether that's calling a friend, whether that's, you know, going to a sound bowl, healing or yoga or getting a massage, but just nurturing and loving that little girl inside of you, that is not feeling loved, that's, I think, the quickest way to hack those. Those triggers.

Wow. These are wonderful advice and very practical. I love. You know what you are really. I think you're hitting it, you know, right on the. On the head that you. When people are triggered, you want to dissipate that energy, Right. That stuck energy. And then, you know, first you want to dissipate, and then once you are in a little better place, and then you can analyze and figure out what's triggering it, but you don't want to be stuck in that place. So breathing, sunlight and outdoors and then some kind of movements. I think it just is such a. Such great advice.

Yes.

Do you have a favorite breathing exercise that you. You want to share?

Oh, man. You Know, my go to is actually Josh Trent. I interviewed him, and he's got an app called Breathe. And I go, I turn that thing on and it's guided breath work. Because when you're in that state, sometimes I can't, I can take deep breaths, but at that point in my life, I didn't know how to control my, my breathing and just do deep belly breaths and put my hand over my heart. I was so in it that I, I, I needed help. So I, if you go look up Josh Trent and the Breathe app, it is a beautiful, gentle, super simple app that gives tons of guided breath work. That's my go to because a lot of times I'm, you know, when we're breathing, we think we're, we're most of us emotional eaters. We're shallow breathing. We're like. And that's not. But you want to, you want to do deep belly breaths where your, your belly goes out. And a lot of us are breathing wrong. You know, we've been breathing wrong our whole life. So that guided app is amazing. I would definitely do that. Or if you can do a cold plunge, that's a great one too, because it forces you to slow your breath down.

Of course, this is due to a lot of things. Wow. Okay. All right. Well, that's a little advanced.

Yeah. Or take a cold shower or take a hot shower, you know, because it'll, it'll start to calm you. Like, if you can't get there yourself, jump in the shower. Just get in your heat. Go to a sauna. That hot yoga. That's why I like hot yoga, because it just moves stuff gently and you can start to breathe again. Yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing. I do hot yoga, and it's amazing how it can release motions. So, like, after a session in that heat, all of a sudden you're in a space where things that were stuck in you before can just break through.

My first yoga class, I bawled my eyes out and I said, what just happened to me? I was in Shavasana and just tears, right? And it was just because I finally had a chance to get those emotions, those stuck emotions out of my organs. And, and I always thought yoga was just green juice and stretching. You know, until you actually do a good yoga class, it will change your life forever. Because that emotional cleanse you get was everything. If you can't get into a coach to, you know, go into the journaling and the, and the rewiring of the brain, just get into yoga, because at least you can when you're twisting, you're wringing out your organs and all those emotions are coming out. So that's how you can help process that out if, you know, if you don't have any other tools in your tool belt at that time. Game changer. Game changer. Yeah.

Wow. What a great conversation. Okay, let's end with one question. If you have one advice that you can give to the listeners on how they can live a better life, what is your advice?

Oh, man, there's so many. And the first thing that comes to mind, I know this is going to sound. This is what really changed. Changed it for me. On top of what I've already said with increasing your protein, sleeping, lifting weights, those physical things, for me, I was so disconnected from myself as a human, right? We are walking miracles. We are literal walking miracles. If you actually tap in and Zach Bush is really good at this, telling you your DNA wraps around planet Earth 2 million times, I mean, he will go into the details and the intricacies of who you are as a human. You are an absolute miracle. What it takes to run this magnificent machine. I'm getting chills right now. And when Zach said that curiosity is the most powerful force on the planet, I didn't understand that for a long time. And he would always say, you know, go stare at your hand for an hour. Go stare at a leaf for an hour. And then he's like, that's the gateway into understanding what I'm talking about. It took me forever, and then I. It finally clicked. When you start getting into nature more and you start seeing everything as this life force that's all around us. We are made from the exact same life force. We are made from this divine intelligence that somehow created a planet to be floating in the middle of space, just perfectly floating. You know, when you start really tapping into nature, you start tripping out on it. And then you go, oh, my God, I'm made from the same divine intelligent force I am. I'm fucking here for a reason. Like, I am. I'm not just a human that just came into this earth and floating around, living life, that came to work in an office and then die, you know, and retire and die at 80. You know, like a lot, like the. A lot of the media, you know, says to do just go to school, go to college, get a job, and then retire and die. We are here for so, you know, like, we are here for so much more. You showed up for a reason. You are in this divine. Incredible. It's like Earth school. And you came here with a Purpose. And you are. You have so much power inside of you that it's the same power that causes the solar system to work. Right? And when you start seeing yourself as a piece of that, not disconnected from it, but connected to that, made from the same thing, you start looking at yourself differently. You start seeing like, I can heal. I'm a self healing machine. All I need are these like 10 simple things and I like. You start. You just start seeing life differently. You see yourself differently. The possibilities to heal are so much more. More vast. And. And the ability to manifest, the ability to live your dreams, the ability to change your life, everything just explodes like a supernova. And when you actually realize that everything in the universe, like the stardust, all the. All the. Just the different chemistries that make up the solar system, stars, everything, we're literally made of the same material. If you dive deep into it and you're like, oh, my God, you're literally made of magic. What? And when you start to understand that, you show up differently. And then life starts showing up for you because you're connected to that power. And when you have that power, you're unstoppable. You're bulletproof. No, like, nobody can touch you. And that is when I think life really changes and that's when you can really heal.

Wow, that's powerful. That's beautifully put. Thank you so much. That's such a great message and it's inspiring me. I'm gonna get out into my garden, soak up some magic.

That's right. It's all about it. Oh, thank you.

Yeah. Thank you so much, Erin. What a lovely conversation. Yeah. Thank you for bringing all of yourself to this, to share everything and to be so open and. Yeah, I think it's going to inspire a lot of people and hopefully make them, you know, better people, you know, for themselves and for everybody else around them. So thank you.

I love it. Thank you, Dr. Joy. Thank you so much. And I can't wait to have you on what we crave too. We're gonna jam and have an amazing conversation too.