Stay Young Forever with Stem Cell Therapy? The Truth About Anti-Aging Benefits | Dr. Joy Kong

Why do we die? Your cells are getting older and your body's just not keeping up. We're looking at what can we do to prevent that. Those stem cells is one of the tricks. Almost all stem cell therapy can have benefits. So I compared everything and there was no question in my mind the birth tissue source is superior. One of the biggest, the most talked about benefit is anti inflammatory effects. And the other thing is they have huge immune modulatory effects and then it has these, these angiogenic properties so helping forming new blood vessels. The entire medical education is about waiting for the patient to get sick. But what if you catch the little smoldering things before the smoke comes out? That's the philosophy of anti aging medicine. Prevent what's causing the disease.

For those interested, somewhere on my Facebook page you can see the stem cell procedure that we did at Joy's office. So that was there. But I'm curious how you gravitated as a doctor toward the anti aging medicine and all of the regenerative stuff and the cutting edge kind of medicine technology that you're into.

Yeah, maybe I'll just give you a quick overview of my journey. So I actually grew up in China first. My first 20 years was in Beijing. And so growing up in the Chinese system, there's always a sense that you could use Chinese medicine when necessary and you can use Western medicine when necessary. Each are good for certain things. Nothing is perfect for everything. So there's already a sense that, that you utilize whatever that works. Right. So an integration, you know, like my mom's, you know, medicine drawer, there's western medicine, Chinese medicine, everything's mixed together. And she asked me what, you know, what's your symptom? After I tell her, and she will have her diagnosis and she will reach out and either is Chinese medicine or western medicine, so she pull out whatever magic it is. So that's kind of my background. And when I came here, eventually deciding to go into medicine, I, well, I decided to go into psychiatry because I was fascinated by the brain. And then I, you know, I got board certified in psychiatry and later on addiction medicine. But you know, I've tried to be integrated in my approach in treating patients. But I saw the limitation in the system in what was done. And I was trying very hard to integrate, you know, what I've learned from Chinese medicine with the western psychiatric approach. But those two are such vastly different languages. And I had trouble really, truly integrate them. And when I encountered what's called anti aging medicine, which is really an offshoot of functional medicine, or integrative medicine. There are many names for it, but basically these, the whole new branch of medicine comes. You know, their essence is about looking at the body as a whole. So the whole body has many, many, many things working together, including various nutrition, how that affects your body, how hormones are affecting your body. What about toxicity? That, that's, you know, how is that interacting? What about, you know, the different organs, how they affect other organs. So everything becomes a system approach. And this whole branch of medicine not only is looking at things holistically like Chinese medicine, but it's using modern scientific language to explain how different systems may be connected. So, so all of a sudden in my mind all the dots are getting connected. So I could use a holistic approach looking at the body as a whole, but with scientific language to integrate this, this, you know, how I can look at the disease and how the therapeutic, you know, treatments can come together. And that's when I just, you know, had a aha moment. You know, this is what I need to do. This is, you know, I could be holistic but still be scientific. And then so anti aging, you know, the beauty of anti aging medicine, some people don't like for it, but really it's, it's a beautiful concept because it's about looking at aging as a prequel to disease. And really it is the prequel to disease because when you have disease, it's more like, let's say a body is like a house. And you, when you are diagnosed with disease, where you show symptoms, that's like the house caught on fire. You've seen, you know, things are, but, you know, things aren't really happening. Smokes are coming out. But guess what? Before the smokes are coming out, the fire got caught on. Things are happening, things are smoldering. And that's what has not been picked up by our western medicine approach. They're only waiting for you to get sick. That's entire my entire medical education. You know, I went to a great school, ucla, and they're, you know, fairly forward thinking, but still the entire medical education is about waiting for the patient to get sick. Let's just wait for people to get sick. And then we'll have all these sophisticated diagnostic criteria, you know, this imaging and all these things, and we'll figure out what's causing the sickness and then we throw drugs, you know, give them drugs or do surgery. That's the entire approach. But what if you catch the little smoldering things before the smoke comes out? And that's the philosophy of anti aging medicine. You prevent that what's causing the disease. Because what's causing the disease is also what's causing aging is they're hand in hand. When we are older, we get sicker and they just come together because your cells are getting older, getting dysfunctional. It can't recognize cancer very well. It can't fight diseases very well. Your tissues are fibrose, and it's not being replaced by new tissue sufficiently. That's why everything starts to break down. So if you prevent the breakdown, then you can prevent disease. So what a beautiful model to help people live healthy, a healthy life, right? It's not about, oh, we're fighting aging. No, we're making people living a vibrant life and prevent them from getting sick. And so you can gracefully age and enjoy this wonderful health. But eventually, one problem with life is that we are all going to die, right? Why do we. Why do we have to die? Maybe one day we're going to prevent that, but right now, we know that people run out of stem cells. So just look at if we are degenerating, degenerating. You know, things are running, you know, running low on fuel, and, and you're not replacing and not replacing any of these damaged cells, then guess what, you just, you know, wrinkles start to show, you know, hair start to gray. And then, you know, all the functions you can't see in the inside of the body. Your organs are also, you know, are also degenerating. You just don't see it. All you see is outside and you think, oh, I'm aging. But guess what? You're aging everywhere. So one reason you're aging like that is because your body cannot replace the damaged cells. So all your cells are getting older and your body's just not keeping up, replacing the damaged cells. So why do we die? Well, if you run out of stem cells to replace all the damaged cells, you know, all the cells that are not functioning very well, then your organs, you know, just start to not functioning very well. You know, eventually everything shuts down. So that is, you know, we're looking at, what can we do to prevent that. So stem cells is one of the tricks. If we can replace those messages as.

We get into the stem cell thing, how does the process of getting stem cells from umbilical cords during the birth process happen?

The way that these birth tissue are collected is when a mother is about to give birth, they're asked, do you want to save the tissue? And, you know, have it processed and stored for future use for your baby. Or so basically, 90% of the time mothers say no, because cost a few thousand dollars, you know, to keep it every year.

But they could get it encapsulated or something like that.

No.

So how does it work? If they want to save it, how does it.

So usually they save the blood, they can process it, which means that they will, you know, separate out the red blood cells from the more premature cells. So the stem cell portion, the premature, you know, very young premature cells, or so those cells are kept and then they are cryopreserved and saved, you know, basically put in liquid nitrogen so then they can be used, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 years later.

So by the same person.

Yeah.

Oh, interesting. So. So one could have a baby elect to have them preserved in that way. And then when the baby's 17 years old and gets in a soccer accident and busts his ass, stem cells back.

Yeah. Or have a traumatic brain injury, you know, all of a sudden they can't walk and you can inject the cells and restore their function. Or the person could be diagnosed with some other, you know, terrible illness or, you know, God forbid, leukemia, you know, things like that. Then you can use the same cells to repopulate the body, the same healthy ones. So. So it used to be people were only preserving cord blood cells. And then real. They realized that core tissue have, you know, tremendous amount of mesenchymal stem cells, which is really kind of the engine cells for regeneration. So then people started to process cells and store cells from the core tissue. So then blocal cord, you can either get the blood out or you can dissect the tissue and get. Get the cells mostly from Orton's jelly, you know, free the cells up and then store them. So but it costs a lot of money and a lot of, you know, families may not be willing to do that. And then they're asked, if you're not going to preserve it, would you like to donate it? So once they say they are willing, they have to fill out this very, very extensive questionnaire and almost 90 questions. So it asks questions about their, you know, personal, you know, their health history, their, their work history, so toxic exposures or travel history, their sexual history, their, you know, prenatal history, their partner's history, you know, the entire family history. So they look at everything. And one thing about donation of these, these tissue is, is a true donation, you cannot be compensated in any way. You know, you can't be given a pen. You know, you, you're not going to be able to be awarded, you know, anyway. This is truly that you are willing to donate. So this kind of prevent people from lying on this form just so that they could get, you know, their tissue accepted. Because the reason you can't give them anything is because it is illegal to sell human tissue. So you can't sell human tissue in this country. It has to be a donation. So after the sell these products, well after that they fill out the form and they fulfill the criteria. So different companies may have different criteria. Our company, we have one of the most stringent criteria. So anything that's suspicious, you know, that's the, the, the cells are not going to be accepted. So after they agree to donate and their questionnaire meets the, the, the criteria, then of course they, they have to have their, a prenatal follow up, you know, all their history and, and everything has to look good. And on the day of delivery they have to be in perfect health and the baby has to be healthy. So it has to be. So even if they have, have a low degrade fever, that's scrapped. They can't donate that. That's it, you know, we're not going to accept it. So it has to be a good delivery. And the delivery actually has to be cesarean section, not, it has to be elective cesarean section. The reason they do that is not to allow the baby to go through the vaginal canal, which is dirty, which has a lot of bacteria. And, and, and, and so when you come through that canal, things can easily get contaminated. Whereas if you do serious section, you're opening the person up, everything is sterile. And then you take the tissue, right? You take the baby out and, and then you, you know, cut the cord and there's a placenta and then you can save this birth tissue, right? Usually this birth tissue is going to be tossed in the trash in the biological waste. But when these people are willing to donate and they meet the criteria, then the procurement company would put the tissue, you know, carefully in a sterile bag, you know, put on ice and then send it over overnight it to labs, whichever lab that's going to process this. And so the lab, once they accept the tissue, they receive the tissue, they have to do testing to check lots of, basically they go through the same stringent testing that an organ transplant donation is going through. So you have to check for hepatitis, hiv, you know, syphilis and you know, a lot of, you know, all the conditions that are tested for organ transplant. And you know, our company actually go above and beyond test even more, including Lyme disease and Chagas and prion disease and all that stuff. So once you test everything. You can process the, the cells, you can, you know, start processing. But if the test comes positive for any conditions, then that has to be tossed. You're, you know, that's not to be used. So but if everything looks good and you process the cells and you have the finished product, right? So you, you may have cryopreserved the product and then the finished product is sent out to an outside lab to test for sterility. So is the, is the product sterile? Did you have contamination during your processing? So they have to grow this, you know, to grow, to see if any bacteria, anything grows. And they have to test for endotoxins. So basically toxins released by the bacteria. And that would take a couple of weeks to come back. And so when that comes back negative, so you know, when everything is clear, that means then this product can be used to, for human use. You can actually give to people. If that comes back negative, you know, but, or become back positive, you know, basically is no good, then they have tossed the whole batch. Unfortunately, there are some unscrupulous companies which I would not name who did not wait until the final result comes back. And they are so eager to sell the product, they just sold it and then result came back showing that their bacteria contamination. And then what? And then they scramble. Right. But some people already hurt.

Wow. Damn. Well, yeah, I'm glad to hear this. Now after you gave me an IV of these stem cells, I mean, I looked on your website and you sent me that really comprehensive PDF ahead of time. And you know, I had my questions and all of that, but I felt confident. And my gut check on it was like this, this girl's legit. This, she's not messing around. You seem, you know, very integris about what you do. So that's why I was comfortable with that. But still there is, it's a little uneasy for some reason still just putting something from another person's body, you know, a mother or baby's body in your body. And I was afterward like did have a couple thoughts like, I don't know, what if their DNA was mutated or you know, if I got like remnants of a mutant vaccine that they had or you know, just weird thoughts like that. And I thought, well, people get blood transfusions all the time. Like I go donate blood, you know, every few months to be a good person and to get iron out of my body. And so someone is walking around with my blood in them. Probably walking around la a bunch of people.

Well, your blood and you know, your red blood Cells do not have DNA in it. So, so these cells do have DNA, but you know, the function of these cells, it's, it's almost in a sense, it goes to your two body, it does its thing and most of them go away. But it's the million dollar question of how much of the cells actually stay in my body. Right. Because a lot of times to fix certain tissue, we want the cells to stay and make new cells. But that's really, initially that's what people thought, stem cells are functioning. They thought stem cell therapy is by giving the stem cells to the body so the stem cells can divide and form the new tissue. And that's how the person, you know, gets, gets benefits. And then as we go through years and years of research and, and, and clinical study and realizing, oh, I guess the benefit is not so much about the cells becoming part of the human tissue, it's really the cells that are sending out signals and most of them don't stay in the body, but the benefit is there. So it's really about these cells giving out signals, the right sick, the right information, it's like a disseminating information. So.

Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah. So, so I've asked some of the most prominent scientists, you know, around the world. It's like, how much of these cells actually stay in the body? Right. I'm doing the therapy, I'm giving it to people. So how much actually stay? Nobody, they're like, nobody knows, nobody knows. But I think the consensus I've been Getting is between 2 to 5%. So whatever I gave you, maybe 2 to 5% actually stays. So I want to kind of give you also, you know, allay some of the fears or the concerns that you might have other people have. For example, I've done IV transplantation on myself every three months, right. So I have lots of people's DNA in me. And what I want people to realize is that what's called, actually there's a name for it, microchima ism. So chimera means to two animals or two things are becoming one organism, right? So microchimerism is, you know, it's happening on a small scale and that is prevalent in nature. That happens all the time, even in humans. And one typical example is what's happening in a woman's body. So first they found out from a Harvard study, they did an autopsy on these old women who died, right. That they're old. And then they were dissecting their brain and they're looking at the DNA in the brain and the Easiest way to find out if there's any foreign DNA is by testing the Y chromosome, right? The female X chromosome and male Y chromosomes. So there should be no reason that there's Y chromosome in a female body, right? And guess what they found out. All these women who have given birth to male children have Y chromosomes in their brain. So that's the first thing. And, and, and incidentally they actually found out that the Y chromosomes, the presence of that actually was protective against Alzheimer's. But, but that was, you know, maybe the, the number of subjects were not sufficient to, to draw that conclusion. But that was interesting, right, because we all know when a woman that has these autoimmune conditions, often their conditions get better when, when they're pregnant. That's, that's a known fact in, in, in the medical community. So why are they getting better during pregnancy? Could it be that they're getting a mini stem cell transfusion from the baby? Because we know there's exchange of communication, right? This communication and even cellular material. So so obviously the male or even the, the female just can't tell, right? So even when you had, you know, given birth to females as a woman, doesn't mean that there's no exchange. We just, we're able to tell really easily whether or not the males has got into the female's body. So, so when you are having, carrying this baby, there's exchange the mother cells, the baby cells, you know, it got into the mother because later on what they found out is the cells, the Y chromosomes, because that's what they use to test, are not just in the brain, it's in the breast, it's basically in all the tissue everywhere. So, so that already happens in nature. And then there's a follow up study which is fascinating because they found out that 60% of women actually have Y chromosomes in them. And so they couldn't account that, account for that by the, you know, just having, having been pregnant with male children. Because and so they're looking at what if they had a pregnancy but it was a miscarriage and they didn't know about. So they, they statistically that they're looking at that, adding that into the factor, you know, and then they're also adding the factor, oh, what if they were in the mother's womb, you know, when they were, you know, little fetus and there were a male sibling that, but no one knew about that the sibling died, you know, in utero. So what if we account for that? So they were adding all these potential factors to see if they could count for the 60% of Y chromosomes in women's body. They couldn't. So the only conclusion, you know, the author was saying, well, I think the only way we could explain it is through male and female intercourse.

Really?

Yes.

Wow.

So. So isn't that enlightening?

Why didn't my mind go there? I was waiting for the. The answer to the riddle and I'm like, that's so obvious, you know?

But, yeah, so. So it already happens in nature all the time because a baby and the mother, their DNA is only 50% identical, right? So you have a foreign DNA, right. Completely foreign. But because they're so young, they're able to go inside, stay in the body, and be adapted to the new body. If the baby had grown up because of the 50% difference, the baby could. If you have a, let's say a transplantation, let's say bone marrow transplant. If, if your baby gives you transplant, where you as a mother, sometimes you can't give, you can't donate to your baby, or the baby cannot donate to the mother because the baby has grown. Because they've expressed all these surface receptors and they've established their own identity. But when the cells are so young and you put in that person's body, it actually adapts. It speaks a different language.

Okay, so really fascinating. So the stem cells are not differentiated yet. They're just a blank palette. And they've not expressed as. Yeah, whatever. They're going to be tissue. Whatever.

This is why it's really fascinating because people have done cord blood transplantation, right? Umbilical cord blood in lieu of bone marrow transplantation. So if someone has leukemia, you can give them from a perfectly matched donor and take their bone marrow and transfuse it and allow the cells to establish in the new person in their own bone marrow. Or you can give umbilical cord blood. The composition is very similar. So umbilical cord blood. When you don't. When they did experiments, you don't, you don't test for. You don't match anything. The HLA markers, you don't match it. Completely unmatched. You have way less potential for any problems than a perfectly matched adult. Perfectly HLA matched adult bone marrow transplant. Because our cells are so complex, right. They're all these surface markers. Just because you tested the main, the major HLA markers, there's still many. You didn't test. But, but because the cells are so mature, it has all these. Everything's manifested. And then you put in another person's body, guess what? They don't get along. There's, you know, the body doesn't recognize, but completely unmatched. You don't, you don't even bother testing it and you put in the new person. There's very, very little problems.

Wow. Okay, cool. So from talking to you the other day briefly, and we did a little pre interview, but for those that don't see that, I'll go ahead and kind of recap it now. I was expressing that I had had stem cell treatment a few years back out with Dr. Harry Adelson and Dr. Amy Killen in Park City Doceri clinics. And for that procedure, which by the way, for anyone watching is on YouTube, it's extremely gory because it's a legit surgery. Like when I went with you the other day, it was just like getting a Myers cocktail, like an iv. It was just totally chill. You're going to drip in your arm and you just sit there and hang out. But this was, you know, under anesthesia and they did adipose derived stem cells and bone marrow derived stem cells. So you know this. But I'll explain to the audience. So what they did is they took basically what was the equivalent of doing liposuction on my like back fat, I guess, kind of in my back, like a muffin top, around the backside of the muffin and you know, really gory on video from what I hear. I'll never watch it. And then they take, you know, the fat or blood out of there, whatever it is, get your own stem cells. And then they went into that. What's that bone called on your butt? That plate hit your hip bone on the backside.

Iliac quest.

Yeah, that's usually. So they basically took like an ice pick with the hammer, hit a big hole in that and then extracted the bone marrow out of there, went in a centrifuge and spun it or whatever and extracted my own stem cells and then put them back into me all over my body. When I say all over, I mean all over. Even the places you're thinking they wouldn't. That's Amy. Amy does the sexual, you know, enhancement or whatever. So yes, my penis was injected with stem cells on YouTube. I think it's behind a little sheet. Hopefully it probably would have been banned by now, but anyway, I did that and, and I saw some improvement in a couple of the things. I mean, I was hoping for like a one, two punch and my 20 year back pain would just be gone in three months and it hasn't been. I'm still working on it. I'm making some progress uh, but I think it was a net positive experience and I'm glad I did it, but it was pretty invasive. I mean, you're, you know, you're kind of laid up for a couple days and, you know, you gotta take pain meds. And it was definitely not an easy experience. But I think for someone who has a serious long standing injury, there's a lot of evidence to support that either of those methods can be useful. But when I talked to you, you had some different opinions about that, which is why, why you're doing it in the way you do it with the umbilical stem cells. So can you break down at least your perspective on the adipose derived and bone marrow derived, the endogenous versions of that, and then give us kind of an overview of what's happening outside of the United States where the laws are more lax and other places where people are multiplying and culturing stem cells. So you get a net, you know, benefit of having more. And you said that it's possible that might not even be a benefit. Kind of break that down for people that are, okay, you know, somewhat aware that there are kind of three different types of stem cells that you can put in yourself.

Right. So those are the three most common types. Obtaining stem cells from your bone marrow, your fat, or using someone else's, which most likely is from the birth tissue. So when I first got into, you know, got super excited about stem cells, I definitely looked into all of them and because I was determined to give people the best. So by reading a ton of articles and looking at research that's been done from all around the world, including direct comparisons between these tissue sources and looking at how potent the cells are, how safe they are, how, how, how much, how, how able, how capable they are at differentiating into different pathways and how much anti inflammatory factors they're able to secrete and, and how much lifespan they have left. So I compared everything and there was no question in my mind that the birth tissue source is superior. I mean, that's not. My conclusion is the conclusion of many, many, many scientists from all around the world. So, so that is a given. Umbilical core sores came as the younger kid on the block. So initially it was bone marrow, because we were doing bone marrow transplants, you know, those, you know, to help with leukemia. Before we knew about stem cell therapy, that was really the first stem cell therapy. So that was bone marrow. And then they realized, oh, bone marrow, if you break the bone when you're, you know, doing orthopedic surgery, and you put some marrow, you know, there and it actually helps a heal. So, so, so then that's how the bone marrow started to, to become kind of like the gold standard for stem cell therapy. And then the fat derived source came onto the block and then they realized, oh, there are actually a lot of stem cells in the fat tissue. So it's not in the fat, it's really along the blood vessels that's nourishing the fat.

Okay.

So it's, there are all these mesenchymal stem cells that are kind of, you know, huddling around the blood vessels. So they're separating out those cells and they found that they're very therapeutic. And then, you know, the birth tissue came to be and then they realized, oh, so these are just full of stem cells in this birth tissue. And that's really the engine that the placenta and umbilical cord, they were the engine of human forming a human being. Right? So then they look at the stem cell composition. So the umbilical cord blood is, has a very similar composition as the bone marrow and umbilical cord tissue. MSCs, because full of MSCs. That's similar to kind of, you know, the fat derived product which is full of MSCs. So so in a way when you, when you are doing, you know what I believe the best way is a combined these two sources, right? If you can get what's the best from the bone marrow and the best from the fat and which is what you did. Very few people do both in one sitting. But, but with the birth tissue you could do that. So the cells are younger, they cause less potential. Well, there's less potential for processing contamination. But, but that, that aside, you know, and doesn't have, doesn't cause any trauma, but that aside, it actually has less tumor promoting potentials. You know, people may think, oh, how, you know, my own cells, how is that going to happen? Guess what? If you have any existing precancerous changes, you know, or a little, little tumor that may be there, and your own stem cells are not very smart anymore. It's not as smart as birth tissue stem cells because when they've done direct comparisons, you put a tumor, they did it both in a petri dish and on the live animal. They put the tumor and then they put stem cells next to it. So if you use an adult human fat derived stem cells, you put next to the tumor, the tumor grows because the cells is like, oh, I make people, I make things grow, right? I produce growth factors, I help help everybody flourish. And then so it Made the tumor grow. But if you put umbilical cord derived stem cells next to this tumor, guess what? The tumor shrink and disappear.

Wow. Damn. Because that's interesting.

They have the extra intelligence that's still intact, is able to recognize, oh, you are not supposed to be there, you don't belong, you are pathological. So what it does, at least one of the mechanisms is secreting what's called trail ligand. So this particular ligand actually cause apoptosis of the cancer cells cell death.

Is that what that is? Okay.

Program cell death. It tells the tumor cells, you know what, get on this path and die. So they still have that intelligence. That's why it's safer. In that sense, there's less potential to actually exacerbate your own tumor or cancer.

Wow.

So that not only is more effective, is more potent, but it's also safer.

So why, and God bless all the doctors out there that are using stem cells derived in the way that I describe. But why is anyone doing that still? Like what's, what's the argument on the other side in the stem cell world that were where people are still doing the, the bone marrow and some people.

Are really, really going to dislike me and attack me, possibly even make comments under your, your post.

That's all right. It wouldn't be the first time I.

Am just going to speak the truth. Almost all stem cell therapy can have benefits, right? So a lot of the doctors who have used the treatment swear, you know, that has helped their patients, which I believe wholeheartedly. Just like it has helped you, it has, you know, it has helped people. So they've seen benefits. So then they're convinced that this works, this really helps. And if they're not willing to look at newcomers, right. Of new therapeutic modality that possibly could be a step above, then they just want to use their own particular mold. The other reason is economic, economical concerns. There's an, there's an investment involved to have your own setup, right? Either bone marrow derived or fat derived. You've got, you need surgical apparatus. You have to go through particular training. You're paying a lot of money for the training and you've got all your, your staff, everybody's trained, you know, you're set up to do this, right? To switch gear means, what about this? I just invested all this money, you know, what am I gonna do with that? You know, I'm getting good results, so I'm not gonna switch gear. It makes no sense. You know, I'm good. So that's another factor that's preventing people from progressing from, you know, to me, I would, you know, I don't function that way. To me, I feel an obligation to give people the very much the very, the very best. So I, that's my moral obligation. You know, like I said last time, if I know that, you know, people are coming to me to get stem cell therapy and I know I can give them this thing that will give them, you know, 70% benefit, like they can get great results, pretty good. But then I also know something else can give them 90%. So I cannot live with myself to give them the 70%. I just, I just can't. So I will do whatever I can to give them the one that will give them 90%. So if that means changing my business model, I'll change my business model.

Well, it's interesting because. And that makes sense. And if I had just dropped 150 grand, you know, creating a surgical environment and the centrifuge and all the things, I'm sure that are necessary for that kind of extraction, you know, I get that. But what's interesting is it seems that the cost to the patient is about the same. I mean, you know, you're talking what, 10, $15,000 range for a single treatment?

Yes.

And it seems about the same. So I don't know, it's like after hearing this, we might piss off some of the other doctors that are doing it the other way. Because if, if you are the patient and you have that kind of cash.

I can tell you, once everything is set up, it doesn't cost very much to do the procedure anymore. I mean, you have to pay the, or you pay the nurse, you pay for your own time. But it's not expensive to keep doing it anymore. But if you're buying it from a source, from a laboratory, then the cells are fairly expensive. So you have to pay for the product. So that's another reason. Maybe they're like, well, I'm recouping my, my investment and whatever I do from now on, I'm making great profit. So why spend the money to buy an expensive.

Interesting. Ah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. That is very interesting.

I really respect the doctors who have done everything. They've done the bone marrow, they've done the fat, and then they are so open and they realize, oh my God, I didn't know that this birth tissue could be a better source for my patients. Not only that, nobody. You cannot be doing the anti aging treatments that I'm doing on myself with your own tissue. First of all, you're depleting your stem cell source and so you take it out of hibernation and you activate them and you put them in your body and they only live for about three months and then they're gone. Right. So then you just depleted your own stem cell source. So. And are you going to allow yourself to be liposuctioned or your bone drilled into every three months or six months? Most people not. Right. Besides, you know, you're just, you're just depleting, you're activating them and so you're just getting less and less in your body. So. But when utilizing a source from a healthy newborn, that has potent effects, potent therapeutic benefits, and you put in your body and in three months they're pretty much gone. But you're not jeopardizing any of your own source, you're just ramping up this regeneration and then, and then it's done. Right. And then you can choose, do another one, you know, six months later or three months later, whatever you choose to keep up this level of regeneration, of this useful, you know, upkeeping. So, so that makes that possible when you can get it from a standardized source.

Right. And you were mentioned the other day that you had a theory and maybe there's evidence to back this up that when you're going through the surgical procedure of extraction and then say you do a stem cell iv, the systemic stem cell treatment, then, because you just created a trauma, because now you have a hole in your hip and your, your glute and a hole in your back fat or whatever, then those stem cells are going to sequester to the injury because that's what they do.

Those areas you just hurt are screaming. They're sending out this, this SOS signal saying, rescue me, help me heal. So your whole, your body's geared to, to, you know, galvanate to, to, to heal that tissue, tissue. And the cells are exquisitely sensitive to those kind of signals. So any, any kind of signal of alarm of, you know, help me, you know, those, those molecules, those cytokines will actually be, you know, just, you know, they will talk to those stem cells you just put back into your body and the stem cells will swim right up to the area and, and start working right there. So, you know, that's going to reduce the number of cells that you're trying to use to heal other places. Right?

Right.

Let's say you have, you know, particular brain conditions, you really want the cells to get over there, or you have particular, you know, you know, injuries, or you have osteoporosis you know, whatever condition you have that you're hoping the cells may help, then, then there are going to be less cells to get to do what needs to be done.

Got it.

But more will get to areas to fix what you just did.

Got it. That makes sense. Okay, so we, we kind of went almost backwards in describing all what stem cells are and the different ways that you can get them. What do they do? You know, what is this? I have like a shoulder issue, for example, I've had for a long time and nothing seems to fix it. Pmf, I do all the things, lasers, whatever. It gets better for a little while, then it comes back, you know, internal organ issues, immune system. Like what are some of the things that you use it for? What are the studies saying? What have you had the best results with? You mentioned, I think TBIs. That is one of the things that you specialize in, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, yes. Yeah. So we have to be very careful. I want to just, you know, before I say anything that we're not making any claims about treating any conditions because that, that will be inviting lots of trouble. And I never make. So people may come to me suffering from different conditions and what I tell them is how stem cells work and whether or not there has been research showing whether or not stem cell therapy has been helpful for that condition. If there's no, there's no such literature, then I'll analyze the pathophysiology of their condition and to see why they're having the disease in the first place and discuss how stem cells work to see if that you know how stem cells work and actually work on how their disease is formed. So then you know, when it comes to how stem cells work, you know, one of the biggest, the most talked about benefit is anti inflammatory effects. So it has huge calming effects on inflammation. And when we, when we get older, most of the chronic illnesses have inflammation as underlying issue. So when you don't calm the inflammation, then repair cannot really happen. As we get older, even if you're in perfect health, if they found out that the inflammatory markers gets more and more and more elevated, so you're just having an elevated level of inflammation as you age, you just, you're just getting more and more inflamed. So if you can have an anti inflammatory effect, then you're calming this underlying driving force of disease and degeneration. So that's one thing. The other thing is very much talked about. You know, when we talk about stem cells, a lot of times we're Talking about mesenchymal stem cells, because that's really, you know, what we found to be kind of the engine of regeneration. I call, I call them the masters of regeneration. So, so what they do, so MSCs, mesenchymal stem cells, they have huge immunodulatory effects. So if, you know, modern science, science are recognizing just how intelligent our immune system is, it has this ability to monitor, not only just fight against infections and, but they also get rid of cancer and they help the tissues heal. So they have this, you know, this tremendously complex, right. All these different cel cells and they all have different functions. And when your immune system's out of whack, that's when you can have autoimmune conditions. You know, diabetes is one. Right. So, Ms. You know, there are so many conditions have an autoimmune component that your body, this, this high heightened inflammation is making your body, you know, your immune system going on hyperdrive. So it's attacking different things. It's attacking your own body's tissue. So when you use stem cells, which has this modulating effect, basically if you are, your immune system is under active, you know, it's not active enough, then it's making it, you know, heighten it up to be more effective. If it's overactive, then it calms it down. So it's not overly attacking everything there is, you know, including environmental, you know, food. You know, a lot of people have sensitivity to all these food. That's an immune dysregulation. When you have all these food sensitivities. I'm sorry, your immune system is in trouble. So. So immune modulation, that's another one. And then it has all kinds of other really interesting properties. For example, it's anti fibrotic. So the mesenchymal stem cells actually can help break down scar tissue. And this is why, you know, I've had success when I given stem cells for people with copd, right. Very tough condition. And the drastic, the rapid recovery of these people on oxygen, on steroids, being able to get off oxygen, go out and, you know, play in the band and sing. You know, drastic improvements because it has ability to break down scar tissue and including liver cirrhosis. Right? Very kind of. You know, the cirrhosis means really the scarring, the fibrosis of the liver. So how actually breaking that down, when you break the scar down, then you can have health tissue to replace it. Right. So the anti fibrotic is really interesting. And then it also has antimicrobial properties. So it not only Helps your immune system to fight infection. Mesenchymal stem cells themselves can actually secrete antimicrobial microbial peptides. So directly fight against infection. And then it has these angiogenic properties. So helping forming new blood vessels. So if it's no good if you providing you're growing new tissue, but there's no blood supply, right. So it actually is helping your blood to form new blood supply. So it's angiogenic. So if you had heart attack, right, you have stroke, so the angiogenesis can help you form new blood vessels to actually supply the new tissue.

That's very cool because hyperbaric oxygen therapy does that as well. Before and after my treatment with you, I mean, I do hyperbaric barrack all the time. It's up in the little cottage back there. I can't wait. When I move, I'm going to have my own whole little healing center where I can have it in the house or somewhere close to the house. But I've been doing that because I kind of put that together and I didn't know that piece, but I thought, okay, so if I for a period of time have all these stem cells that Dr. Joy put in my body, then I know that I can build new blood vessels and capillaries by doing the hyperbaric. I thought I want to push all those cells into every inch of tissue in my. So I've been doing like three, one between one and three hour hyperbaric sessions every day. I did one today for 90 minutes. And I just go in there and meditate. And yeah, it's like, it's. It's just a great meditation.

Great idea, Great idea.

It's. It's actually really cool too because when your brain gets really oxygenated in there from the pressure, I mean, you're breathing like 99 oxygen, but the pressure pushes, pushes it into your plasma. I'm sure you know this, but for those listening. So no matter how much breath work you do, you never get oxygen into your plasma. You just saturate your red blood cells. So when that oxygen is going for about 30 minutes, it basically puts you in a really kind of catatonic meditation anyway. Even if you're not trying, it's very relaxing. You go parasympathetic. So I love that. That's what the stem cells also do. That's pretty cool. That's a good stack. That's like pretty.

That's.

That's potent stuff, right?

So that's definitely another one. And another one is what's called parakeet. Paracine effect. So it just means, you know, endocrine means, you know, something gets secreted into your blood and goes everywhere and produce this, you know, overall effect. Paracrine just means in a, in a small vicinity of where the cells are at. So this, the stem cells are able to secrete, you know, growth factors, different signals just for the local environment. Help modulate is talking. It's bringing other immune cells saying come here, you know, we need this kind of, this kind of cells to do this work or talking with the local stem cells. So instead of. This is why we don't need the stem cells to become your local tissue. Because your local tissue have stem cells. They're tissue specific stem cells. Your heart have, you know, heart specific, you know, you know, even your brain, you know, there, there's specific, you know, very young cells that could potentially become neurons. And so you want to talk with the local stem cells. So you're, when you give them the right signal, then these cells will come to be and they will replace the tissue. You don't need the injected stem cells to become your local tissue. So they talk to your local stem cells to actually become.

So this is why I shouldn't be bummed that only 2 to 5% of those cells are going to remain in because they come in, flood your system and do all of that communication.

They give you massive and powerful information. That's why I have had people who have done all kinds of therapeutic modalities and they say the stem cell treatment is a game changer because it gives you the final, the engine, all the information. That's the thing. It's massive intelligent information that's put in your body. And that's what's revolution about it, right? We can do different modalities. Oxygen, okay, that's one factor. That's one thing. And you can do, you know, pmf, okay, that's one thing. But what, what if you put intelligence that is holistic. It's like, you know, right. So not that all the other things are not important. I think everything adds to, to the final solution. But you need the powerful engine to actually drive it. This is why your shoulder is not healing. Because despite all these things you're doing right, it's not having just. It doesn't have enough signals to do the final repair.

Right?

Yeah. So and then continuing on with more of what stem cells can do. Another thing is anti apoptotic. So, so on one hand it has anti cancer properties, right? It can kill cancer. It can kill things that not just cancer, but also what's called senescent cells. So that means old and dysfunctional cells. So old cells sitting in your body, as you get older, you get more and more of these senescent cells. So not just being old and not doing their job, they are actually toxic to your body. They secrete different things that are bad for your body and bad for neighboring environment. So you need to remove them to regenerate. But your body, as you get older, you're not good at removing anymore. You know, your, your immune system not sufficient. Your stem cells are not as smart. And so, so when you put these new signals and then you can actually get these cells basically kill them off. Once you kill them off, then the new, and then you give the new cells signals to replace, you know, what has been killed. Then you have regeneration. So I'll give you an example. They've done this experiment on this rat that has a condition very similar called progeria, which is premature aging. So you mean, I don't know if you've seen, you know, pictures of, could be a young boy, you know, 8, 9 years old that looked like a little old man. Because their body, which is, they don't have the lack natural killer cells, they could not remove these old cells. So they just sit there. Then they look, they start to degenerate, even though, you know, they're a young boy. So they have a animal. I think it's rat or mice, I can't remember. So let's just say rat. They have a similar condition that they are young mice. Let's just say mice. They're young mice, but they look like old mice. Right. Their fur is bad, their posture is bad. You know, they don't move very well. They're, you know, losing their marbles. And then what they did is that they give them NK cell infusion. So, so these natural killer cells all of a sudden kills off all these old and degenerate cells. And guess what happens to the mice? They start to look young again. They start to walk and their fur comes back, their cognition comes back. It's because you're removing what's not functioning. So the stem cells can stimulate your immune system to amplify the natural killer cells. Right. But it can also directly kill off these senescent cells.

So you can regenerate with the senescent cells. And, and so they're kind of in this dormant stage, just hanging around and gumming up the system. When those are killed off, do you just excrete them? I mean, do they become like metabolic waste?

Basically. Then they Break down it just like anything, right? If you have an infection and you got pus forming that your body was, you know, try to remove them. So, you know, your body has a way of digesting them off and putting them back in the blood and then that circulate into liver and eventually it gets out.

Side note, have you heard of this stuff? I could have the name wrong. I have it in the other room. It's a brand name of a new product I got. I think the molecule is called spermidine. I think I'll show it to you. It's really interesting. But what it does, and there's clinical studies to support this, is also flushes out senescent cells. It's made from wheat, wheat germ extract. Yeah, it's really interesting, but they sent me a bunch of white papers on it and stuff and I thought, do I really need another supplement? Like how pills can I take?

Well, I do, I do think when.

You, but that one, I'll show it to you. It's really interesting.

Amplify removal of dysfunctional cells, then you can promote this anti aging benefit, right? So, so for me doing stem cell infusions, not only my immune system is optimized, so my, my NK cells, natural killer cells, are removing these, these, you know, older cells that are getting older from aging, but these direct, these transplanted new cells are also removing, you know, killing them off. So guess what? Then my other stem cells, you know, are, are, are activated. Then I start to, you know, replace. That's why my skin is better. That's why, you know, I tell people, I said, you know, what you're looking at is only, you know, maybe just my face, right? So it looks younger. But what you don't realize is that my entire system, all my bones, my, my muscles, my organs, all the internal organs, everything has gotten younger from these IV stem cells I've done. So I'm rejuvenating my entire body. I don't believe, you know, I, I'm not against plastic surgery. And, and you know, I, I, I think, you know, that's why I created cream, you know, this help with beautification. But what I tell people is that, you know, a lot of people try to do all these things, you know, on the surface of the skin, you know, to texturize, you know, make it better. And I tell them that's great that you're making your skin, you know, you're, you're doing resurfacing, laser treatment. That's all wonderful, but guess what? You're not. Nourishing all the ligaments, the muscles, the fat underneath. And over time, those would degrade, right? And that's why people droop. You can have the perfect smooth skin, but drooping. How great is that? So then you have to do plastic surgery, which has a risk of you not looking very good, not very, not very natural. So if you have the option to keep your natural beauty, right, you know, why not do it? Why only focus on the surface? That's only going to last you so long, only going to give you so much mileage. But I want to go back to the mechanisms of how stem cells work, because there's still a couple more. So another thing that the stem cells can, can do is anti apoptotic. So I was telling you, it induces apoptosis for cancer, right? But it's also anti apoptotic in certain circumstances. For example, you just radiation injury, right? Or chemical, you know, burn or stroke. You know, you have ischemia where the blood shut off and then, you know, one particular area died. The problem with stroke is that not just the area that dies, the area that dies sends out all these signals, sends out all this information, leak out toxic material to the environment so that start to killing off the bordering cells. So cells that didn't have to die will end up dying. Guess what these stem cells can do? It can prevent those signals from actually activating these cells to go on program cell death. So you're preserving healthy tissue.

That's wild, right? God, so fascinating. They do so much.

And then another thing stem cells do, which is really cool, is completely different. It's about. It's called mitochondria transfer, which I love because, you know, we all know mitochondria is really crucial for health, right? As the engine of our cells and of our entire, you know, entire vitality. And as we get older, our mitochondria is also decline. So, you know, people do take all kinds of supplements, do different things to revitalize them. But when you give these fresh new stem cells, the stem cells actually give your, your body mitochondria. So they establish this microtubule bridge. They've caught it on electron microscopy. So between the new cells and then your old cells, these mitochondria actually walk across the bridge to get into the new cell, your own cells, really. So giving you a fresh supply of mitochondria.

Are you serious?

I am serious.

So the stem cells, of course, because their cells have their own mitochondria, even when they're in the newest umbilical.

Yeah.

Wow. That is so badass. You're getting a mitochondrial upgrade.

Yes.

Because I gotta say, it's been what, three days since I came to see you? I think, yes, I feel freaking amazing, honestly. And it's, I mean, you know, I do so many things to support my body and my health and it's my job, or part of my job too, you know, to explore these things and share them with people and be a kind of a human guinea pig. But sometimes they do so many things, it's difficult to know what's working. I just go, God, I feel amazing. And I, you know, there's so many different metrics, you know, sleep, sex drive, energy, physical strength. If I do, you know, some kind of fitness or something, which is rare. I mean, I worked out today, but I don't work out, workout like, you know, like a gym rat kind of guy would work out. So there's all these different ways that all sort of gauge, okay, how am I feeling, how am I doing, you know, how much energy do I have basically? And it seems to me that the things that really move the needle are the things that help the mitochondria. So I think that's really interesting because two things I've noticed for sure is the pain in my body has gone down exponentially in the past couple days. And I've also been seeing this Dr. Dean Howell, who I think his episode will come out after yours, we're going to record out in Austin. He does this neurocraniorestructuring, really fascinating stuff. He puts these balloons up your nostrils and inflates them and they expand all the bones in your skull, basically. It's really, really interesting. And that tells your nervous system to realign your bones and all this stuff. So I've been working with him and he's really helping my hip. I mean, my hip mobility has gone up. But it's not just that. I really sense there's a reduction in inflammation because I can just tell like when the sore spots in my old ass, 50 year old body are sore, I know what inflammation feels like and that's not there. And then he's helping me with the range and the structural stuff. So I think that's a really great combination. And we were talking about this the other day, right? You can put stem cells in people's joints all day long, but if they're not fixing their alignment, the way that they move, the functionality of their joint mobility, et cetera, you can only get so far. Yeah, so I'm so, yeah, so I'm having the experience now of like the stem cell regeneration and also really working with the functionality of the mechanics of the body. I think that combo is you got.

To integrate different approaches. I'm feel wonderful. This is why I founded the American Academy of Integrated Cell Therapy. Because I don't believe that cell therapy is, you know, once and for all is, you know, fix everything. No, that is very, that would be very naive. So you've got to integrate other modalities. You got every. Everything works as a symphony together.

Right.

So, so yeah, the mechanical issue, especially for musculoskeletal issues is really crucial. But I think as far as the pain that you're noticing, that's decreased, that's definitely part of the anti inflammatory effect very fast. I had patients who, before they get off my table, actually as soon as they got off my table, they say, oh, my pain is 50% gone. It could happen that fast.

Wow.

Yeah. And then definitely a lot people within one day, just drastic, drastic reduction in pain. So, so, so you know, I talk about the stages of healing with stem cell therapy. You know, the first stage is this rapid anti inflammatory effect, you know, stopping the tissue damage, you know, stop the toxicity right now, right? That the inflammation is the toxic environment. Stopping the toxic environment now. So that can calm the inflammation and then remove debris, bat cells, you know, get them out of there. So that's the first stage and that could happen, you know, fairly quick. The second stage is the tissue rebuilding. So that's when you know, you talk with the local stem cell that started dividing and making new tissue. The immune cells, you know, they all work together to create a new environment, you know, new tissue growth. That takes more time, right? Weeks and you know, or even more. And then the last stage is the genetic kind of enhancement level. I talk about genetic enhancement really is about helping the DNA to be more healthy because the, the microrna that's secreted by the stem cells through exosomes, the microrna actually has ability to go across the cell nucleus and actually repair the DNA in a certain sense by, by changing the methylation patterns. So in that sense it can rejuvenate the DNA so you can repair and make the DNA healthier. And that effect is going to be much more long term, right? It could be months or even, you know, you can see the effect, you know, a year down the line. So, so what I want you to do is that you should take a picture, you know, somehow take a picture, you know, that I want you to take another one, you know, you should do stem cells at least you Know every six months, if not three. Right. And then in three years, take another picture and look at the difference in yourself.

Have you noticed this yourself?

Yes. So how huge difference.

How long have you been doing this? Every three month program, Four and a half years. Really?

Yeah. I can show you the picture. When I was 43, and now I'm. I'm five months away from being 50. You know when people say, oh, of course you don't age much, you're Asian. I was like, you know, that is not true. Because. Let me show you my picture. Because I was well on my aging path, even though I didn't know it at the time. See, when you look at yourself every day, you don't really see. Oh, I age. You don't see it. Usually what happens is people don't notice changes. They don't. Don't. And then one day, all of a sudden, the mirror like, oh, boy, you know, I have aged. You have been aged.

Yeah, yeah.

Every day.

Well, you notice it when you see someone else. Right. You haven't seen, like, I'll see someone, I don't know, I went to high school with or something, and they'll be my age, 50. And I'm like, holy, this dude looks old as hell. And I think, oh, my God, what do I look like? You know?

Yeah. So. So what happened was that I, you know, when I was 43, I thought I was aging great, and I was aging pretty good, but doesn't mean that I wasn't because you could see from my face. You know, we can't see anything from my body. Right. You don't see the internal organs, but you definitely can see in the face that, you know, that there was, you know, I had more lines coming up my, my skin, there's, you know, more discolorations, and then there's this general kind of like, like slight sagging. Like very, very subtle. But. But it's there. It's like slight, you know, just reduction of volume. And now if you look at. I'll send you, you know, my, my collage, which you can see this. I look at least 15 years younger. Wow, that's, you know, I mean, it just, it's reversal. All the lines are gone. I mean, I don't, I don't wear any foundation. I don't, you know, just what you see. Your skin does look great.

No joke.

Yeah. Because it comes from the inside, you know? Yes. I do use Char Omni as the cream, which keep my skin really well hydrated and helps regenerate. But it's really the health comes from the inside.

Well, I think that's really interesting. I, for some reason never thought about that. But as we see aging, we just see the outside wrinkles, gray hair, thinning hair, etc. But I never think when I look at myself and see myself aging or someone else like, oh, man, I bet their liver's in bad shape or, you know, their spleen's probably, you know, decrepit looking too. You know, you don't think about the inside.

It's true.

Right. So all of our organs are reflecting that breakdown and lack of vitality.

That's right. You don't see the wrinkling and, you know, graying of your, your internal organs.

Yeah, that's very cool. Well, is there. Because I want to, I want to make sure in our.

I think you mentioned another thing about differences, you know, between what we do here and what people do overseas. So I just want to.

Let's do that. And then I want to get into the ketamine stuff before.

Okay, I just want to answer that question. So. So what happens with, you know, what people can do overseas that, that we cannot do in the U.S. it's not that we cannot do it in the U.S. is that if you want to do it in the US if you want to grow the cells to a big number and then give it to people, it has to be under this clinical study. It's called IND Investigational New drug. And that's a very involved process. You have to go through animal testing. You have to do a lot of things. There are a lot of basically things that you have to overcome in order to obtain that approval of that clinical study. So just because you want to do it doesn't mean that it can happen. So that effectively is putting a stop to a lot of people who want to do this. Right. You can grow, even if you grow your own cell. The FDA said no. If you have put the cells into incubator and even if it's from your own body, you grow them into a large number, there could be changes that happen to those cells, which is true, you know, or if you use enzyme because they can get your fat and they will try to digest the connective tissue that's encasing or blocking, you know, the stem cells. If you don't use collagenase, you know, that breaks down collagen, those cells are kind of trapped, so you don't get as many cells. So you put collagenase is to break down the collagen. All of a sudden you're freeing up all these cells, you can get 10 times as many cells from the same tissue. But the problem is the FDA says, well, if you use collagenase, that means that you, there's a potential that you're altering the cells, which is true because not only do they digest the connective tissue, but they can also digest surface receptors of your cells. So they are changing your cells in certain ways. So I do agree with the fda. You know, then you need more investigation. You know, you're changing the cells. So what we use from the birth tissue is completely unaltered, right. For whatever that's from the placenta, from the umbilical cord. You carefully mechanically dissect the cells out. You, you know, you don't use any chemicals, any enzymes and you don't grow them in any way. You just cryopreserve them and then wait until you need them and then you put in the body. So, so that's what's called minimal manipulation. So as long as you're doing that you right now in the US then you're allowed to provide the cells for homologous use. So whatever the cells was doing in the body before, it has to be doing something that's very similar. And when you start to grow cells in massive numbers, then you know, you have to go through the clinical trial. That's why all these companies decide to go overseas which, where they don't have the same kind of restrictions. So a lot of, you know, there are countries that have a lot looser rules. So what they do is that they will take the cells, whatever source it is, could be from fat, from bone marrow, from umbilical cord, and then they separate the cells out and they put them in the incubator and grow the cells to huge number. So, so they can grow them to really vast numbers. What they do is that from a small number so they can grow all the cells and then they can divide them up, right. And give to patients. So they're, it's a very cost saving method, right. So when I give a small number of cells, what happens is that when it's in the body will grow to massive numbers, right? So that's original amount of cells. But when you put them in the, in a culture and you put them in incubator, they do grow to this massive numbers. But what happens is that when you try to grow cells artificially like that, the way the stem cells divide, unless it's in perfect, perfect conditions, they often divide. You know, there's been research done, often divide as one daughter cells One daughter cell, which. Which means the cells is further differentiated and one stem cell. So there's one identical stem cell, and then one daughter cell. The daughter cells has, you know, other things that's going on that's, you know, you know, that's different from the original cell. So they've gained new function. So then if every time, let's say you have 10 cells, and. And each time the cells divide, they have one daughter cell and one original cell, right? And then you divide again. That original cell can only make one of itself, right? And then you have one daughter cell by the end. And the daughter cells also divide, right. By the end. You have way more daughter cells than original stem cells. So you're. You're like a small number of stem cells surrounded by these daughter cells. And then they divide those up and give it to people. So what you're receiving, yes, the daughter cells may still be premature, and, you know, they're still, you know, immature cells, but they're more differentiated, which means that they express more surface receptors, and there's more potential to cause adverse reaction because the more surface receptors they have, the more they can express individuality. That means, you know, if it's John's cells, you know, put into Susan, then John's cells start to become more of John, you know, with John characters. And Susan's body may not recognize it, may not like it. So then you run the risk of that. This is one reason that there's more side effects that's seen when you do it that way. And a lot of times they had to divide the treatment into several portions within the same. Some places do it within a week, and they would give three infusions. But sometimes, and I've heard from patients who have come back from these clinics that by the second infusion and third infusion, they're getting more and more reaction. Guess what? Your body just got primed with these. With these foreign expressions, right? So now you give the second impression, you know, infusion. Your body's recognizing, oh, I know this is not me. I've already been mobilized and now I can attack. So your body's having more this. This, you know, rejection. So this is why I'm not a big fan of it. Unless you can control the condition perfectly, you can show that these cells are absolutely still original mesenchymal stem cells. But there's only so many generations you can. You can do without the cell degrading. So after about four or five generations, they start to really not the capabilities and their original vibrancy would decline. So it's not like you can just grow the cells on trees. They just keep doing whatever. No. After a few generations, they will start to decline in the quality of their progenies.

And you were saying the other day that more is not necessarily better. And that would be the reason then, right, because you're. You're not getting those, like, real, original, undifferentiated stem cells.

Exactly.

So you might think, well, I could go get a million stem cells in one IV instead of a hundred thousand or whatever. But exactly how many?

But they don't realize that 100,000 can grow into a billion inside the body when it's the perfect incubator, you know, there's no better incubator, you know, than a human body, the human environment, for a human cell.

All right, cool. All right, good. I'm glad we covered that. Okay, so with the remaining time we have here, which is not that much, because I have a moving happening here, and anyone that listens to this show knows that I could talk all day. But I would be remiss to not cover one of the other modalities that you do in your clinic. The clinic's called Thea.

Right, Right. T H E A. Yeah.

In Chatsworth. Is that where we were? Yeah. The land of horses in the San Fernando. Horses and a lot of boulders, a lot of beautiful rock formations.

Yeah. A lot of old. The western movies are filmed in Chatsworth.

Yeah. Right, right. And. And in the 80s and 90s, I'm not sure anymore, a lot of pornographic films as well.

That's true. It's supposed to be the porn capital of the world.

I think it is. Yeah. Not your office, though. It's all in the up and up. But you, when you were giving me the tour, you were really excited about the things you're doing with ketamine therapy. And I've used ketamine for meditation and things like that. I've not yet done a therapist led session, although I probably will with Dr. David Rabin, a guy who's been on the show and specializes in that therapist assisted ketamine therapy, I think it's called. But anyway, you showed me around, and you're proud you're doing some remodeling and stuff. And then you had your ketamine rooms, and one of them had an inversion table, and then one of them had a PEMF mat, and then a red light device that hangs over you while you're on the mat. And then there was another room with another red light dome that goes on your head. And so you're doing some pretty cool stuff. Now, I'm a believer in ketamine therapy. I mean, I have a very close friend went to a place in West LA called Field Trip and did a series of, I think six or seven therapist led sessions. Totally cured of addiction, quit smoking, depression gone. Just amazing success story. And I've not. I've not done it, you know, that intentionally. Just. I just have meditated with it and things like that. But he really had some profound changes. And so I think he's just sitting in a chair talking to a therapist with an IV or maybe an intramuscular shot of this ketamine. But you're doing some really crazy stuff out there. And then you indicated you're not just doing it with patients that you see, but that you've also done a lot of journeys yourself and have indicated that it really has opened you up spiritually.

Yes.

And so I'm curious, kind of how you got into it and then. And then maybe what ketamine does to the brain and. And what are some of those unique stacking of different modalities that you're using with it?

I think ketamine, you know, as an incredible therapeutic modality, it's very unique because it's in the dissociative category of medications. And it's being used as anesthetic for decades, I think for, yeah, 70 years almost. So it's one of the safest anesthetic agents and is on the WHO list of essential medications. So it's a really crucial medication. And what it does is that it works on the level of consciousness. Right. Dissociated. So it works on your consciousness. And is the first. Is the. Well, yeah, it's the first. Basically. You can call it psychedelic or hallucinogenic or whatever you want to call it, but with that kind of property, the first medication that's allowed for use, not for that particular purpose, but for the treatment of depression, for treatment resistant depression. So in that sense, it's groundbreaking because it works on so many different levels. I think a lot of doctors, even doctors who are doing ketamine therapy, they get so caught up with the traditional chemistry. You know, one thing I want to talk about is that I think medicine needs to move beyond chemistry and into physics. So we're no longer in the biller ball. You know. You know, this molecule ran into that molecule and it does this. You know, the receptors and the lock and key. That is limiting. That's very limiting because you're not talking about. What about the other level? How about we utilize knowledge in quantum physics. So we've got to stop just being pure chemists. We've got to learn to become physicists if you want to be truly effective and you want to go to the next level of healing. So, so ketamine has the ability. So what most doctors are not talking about how ketamine can help a person is, is not talking about anything more than just receptors. Different receptors, yes, it works on receptor levels. It's true, an MDA receptor and this, and that gets very complex, but it also changes brainwaves. So one of the really powerful brainwaves that, that is hard to get to is the gamma wave. So we have, you know, four level of other brain waves, but the gamma waves associated with this incredible sustained focus and expanded consciousness. And they've compared the wave of the gamma wave, the gamma wave presentation with people that have met long term meditators, meditated at least 10,000 hours in our lives, is very similar, looks very similar. So there's a level of consciousness expansion that can help things from a completely different level. So we all know how good meditation is and meditation can generate that high level brainwave and ketamine can do that too. And that's not talked about, that's not even talked about by almost all the ketamine doctors that I met. You know, it's unfortunate.

You know what? I really want my own QEEG machine because I'm always so curious when I explore these different medicines and different types of meditation. I'm always so curious what brainwave state. I mean, the only thing I can track is I don't have my aura ring with me. But today I did a meditation in my oxygen chamber, like an hour and a half. Joe DISPENZA one and I hit a pretty deep state and I tracked my HRV and it was, I went up to like 57 or something, which is above, maybe 10 points above my nighttime baseline. I thought, oh, that's pretty good because it felt pretty deep. And so that was interesting. But I'd really be curious to see as they do in the Dispenza retreats, you know, he's got a whole group of scientists in the back and everyone's hooked up to EEGs and, and they can tell when someone hits gamma and they'll hit high gamma, like 400 standard deviations outside of normal, like insane supernatural experiences. And these people are not doing any kind of psychedelics or anything. It's just they use the breathing techniques and the things that he's refined over the years. But I'M just someone that really loves to quantify and I've had different experiences, like I was telling the other day with 5 Meo DMT, which has been absolutely for me the most transformative experiences of my life, hands down, especially recently. And one of the things that it does too is produces high gamma very reliably. But I had no idea that ketamine did that. That's so interesting.

Yes.

It's fascinating subjectively thinking about it, when you go into a really deep space in ketamine where you lose the sensation of the body and that dissociative effect kicks in and then you go into that really still place of the void or that quantum field. That makes perfect sense because it's actually very similar to, you know, like you said, different types of meditation, all the different tools to take us there.

Yes.

So that is badass. So anyway, totally interesting. And for those listening, we're not, let's make it clear, we're not talking about like going to a rave and going into a K hole and like partying.

And no ketamine, you know, it's a different deal. I do believe, you know, it needs to be done, you know, using safe source. Right. I, because I heard so many people who have done ketamine, I was like. And then they didn't have a good experience. How did you do it? And they're like, well, I ingested it, you know, I. Or I snorted it, you know, I. So they were using all these things that really were not the pure form and the setting and they don't know how to dose it. You know, people do not have a good experience. If you use really pure form and you're putting it directly into the contact with your blood flow. Right. Either intramuscular or even people do intranasal, you know, I guess the cook, because it goes directly into the blood. I'm not a big fan. You know, I don't think that will get you the same kind of effect as IV ketamine or even intramuscular. I think the getting directly into the bloodstream and a sustained experience is extremely therapeutic because what we have with ketamine is something that we have not had before, which is helping the rewiring of the brain. So it changes your neural network and it does it. Yeah, it does, you know, secrete, you know, enhance the secretion of brain derived neurotropic factors. So it can help enhance the synapse formation. So your brain actually can establish, you know, a different kind of network or repaired old dysfunctional ones, but the effect can Be so rapid because a person could be suicidal and within a session it's not suicidal. I mean, if you take medications, it will take weeks to work and this can take an hour or even less to work. And that kind of relief of suffering, I think it's so profound and so beautiful because I can't think of anything that's more painful than psychological suffering, than just couldn't, can not being able to feel joy, but only feel despair. So if we can help get the person out of it and free them and then allow rebuilding. Right. And I do believe ketamine and stem cells can work, can help each other, right. The brain, one can help you rewire the faulty network. The other one can help the tissue to be less inflammatory and can help with the growth of the new network.

Wow, so cool. In your subjective experience, being a doctor on yourself with the ketamine, what, what have been some of the net benefits in terms of your consciousness and your, you know, peace of mind or quality of life?

Well, one of the big thing is that it pretty much shattered my ego. So I had a pretty healthy ego growing up, like a little too robust. And it got, you know, more and more subdued as I became more and more mature. I started to, you know, really, you know, put myself in other people's shoes and you know, the empathy and you know, be more loving, more open. But, you know, the sense of, you know, I have to do this, I'm going to accomplish I, this, I, I, I. Once you start to understand more of who you really are, then that I is not doesn't matter very much because you can never see things clearly if you are at this level. You can only see things more clearly when you're standing above it. I mean, the picture cannot form clearly right when you are right in it. So you have to get above it and then you can see the picture. So that gave me a perspective, understanding of what I really am. And I feel, this is the first time I feel I have a chance at true happiness and sustained happiness. You know, I'm not completely there, but I'm working my way toward it. I remember about a year ago, I was saying to a good friend of mine, I said, I just want to be happy all the time. I just, I want to be ecstatic all the time. I just want to be so filled with joy the moment I wake up, until the moment I go to bed, I just want to be happy. And I was like, but it's not like that. I'm not happy, happy all the time. And she said, well, nobody can be like that, can be happy all the time. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I really want that. That's what I want. And this. I feel, this is the first time I'm having a chance at it, that I could have a chance to be actually ecstatic at all times. And that's what happened with people who are more enlightened, who have that they can live in that state of bliss all the time. Right? And that's what I want. And I feel by expanding your consciousness, by looking at things from a certain height, then you're able to understand why you're here and what's out there, how that's related. And you know what? Then if you understand your purpose and then you understand the source of certain greatness, then you may be able to enjoy something that there's a sense of, you know, you know, joy and. And bliss that you just could not either grab or sustain.

Yeah. That sense of expanded awareness and objectivity. Right. Where you. In the ketamine journeys and meditation and whatever experience brings you there. What I find is, is I get better at being in that observer, witness, perspective during the experience. But with practice, you can actually be sitting here having a conversation and still be the witness observing the personality Luke, and the personality Joy, having this interaction. Right? And that's when it gets really fun because then the mic breaks, we knock the tea over, the dog farts, I drop my notes, the camera breaks. Whatever life happens in this realm. And it's kind of like, ha, ha, I don't know. I find that the more that I enter into these realms, the more I'm able to kind of wear the world like a loose garment and just kind of slough off anything that's not in my highest good in terms of the way that I feel and the way that I think. It's. It's really. It's. It's. It really is the answer in whatever route you go. And I think things like ketamine, as you describe, and when you look at the function it has on the brain, I mean, how long would you have to meditate to get into high gamma? You know what I mean? Like, you can go get a shot in your butt and go into Gamma. Like, I'll take it, you know?

Yeah, I know. I know. I've tried to meditate since I was 18 years old. And I tried and tried and tried, tried. I just. It was very frustrating. I was like, how come I can't get there? I just can't. People Because I've read books. People are talking about these incredible experiences, these visions, and you can't, you won't believe it. And I was like, I don't see it. I don't see it. I just like, where is it? And now I know exactly what they were talking about. This is incredible. I mean, people who have, throughout history have had these profound experiences and I didn't believe them because I couldn't experience them. And now I know. Oh, my God, it's there. And the cool thing is that now what's really fun is that now I know who I am. I'm having this separation between me, my essence, like this incredible, incredible thing, and joy, you know, joy is right now. You know, it's this time. But. But the me is not joy. So I do have to integrate right now. And it's hard not to integrate because this, this world is so energy dense, it just sucks you in. So it's. It's hard not to be. To have it integrated. But I think for too many people, it's so integrated, so locked in that there's no, no separation. They cannot, they don't even know their essence. All they know is, you know me, you know, you know Joe or you know, or whatever, you know, Jack. So they can't, they can't sense the true essence anymore because they're locked in. And that's what I'm hoping by, you know, the evolution of us as a species that we can start to really be able to unlock and feel who we really are.

What are the three or four different modalities that you stack in the clinic? There was one that I didn't see. You mentioned you're using, putting people under ketamine and then using vibration therapy to work through physical pain and physical traumas and stuff. Explain some of the different things you're doing there. Like the inversion table on ketamine. Sounds insane to me. You put ketamine in your bloodstream, then flood your brain with the ketamine that's in your bloodstream hanging upside down. That even to me, and I'm pretty hardcore, was like. I was like, oh, shit, she's not playing. That's hardcore.

Well, the reason that came about was because I found out from brain imaging that I have traumatic brain injury. Probably since I was probably a teenager. I don't even know. Maybe I was dropped as a baby, but. So I was determined to heal my brain, which I did to a great extent. Within two months, I did a repeat imaging that showed drastic improvement. You know, many areas of lesions that actually disappeared and a lot of them have significant improvement. So, I mean, I made drastic changes within two months. When most people do not get a repeat brain scan less than six months later, because there's no modality that can get people improvement, it makes no sense to do a repeat scan in two months. So I was determined to heal my brain and because I know the capacity of ketamine to rewire the brain and for neurogenesis, so to actually regenerate the neural system. And if I can enhance blood flow and I can use energy therapy, because there's certain energy, like red light therapy, that's another thing I incorporate, that can help with the blood flow and it can promote healing. And then, you know, with the neurogenesis, right, with the ketamine rewiring, then I can really just, you know, things can come together. So the inversion table, of course, you know, inversion has been. Not only is great for your musculoskeletal system, but it's great for brain health and tremendous for brain health. You know, this is poorly perfused and we're always erect like this. So when you invert. And throughout history, you know, people have done that, you know, a lot of old monks, you know that when they do headstands is great for their brain and for their mental acuity. So that really kind of came about because I was determined to heal my brain fast. And it worked.

Me too. That's so cool. So do you ever do the red light helmet wall hanging upside down?

I think that's too complex. Yeah. I don't know.

You make it complex and then my brain's like, how could I make it even more hardcore? And then. And then the other one you had in there was this really nice PEMF mat.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is kind of.

It's a light light therapy. So I got near infrared light, I got pmf. And there's also, you know, some other, you know, there's gemstones. And then I have, you know, a face thing that help with, you know, kind of, you know, facial rejuvenation and then, so the full body light rejuvenation. So. So you've got all the frequencies, you know, the therapeutic light frequencies that can help you rejuvenate. I just. So I have done it, you know, myself. It's. It's pretty incredible.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to get in there and try all that stuff next time I come back to la. And then what about the. Working with the, the body with the vibration therapy and all that and ketamine.

When you are just like, I'm not comfortable. For example, I have. I've had knots in my back because I'm a little bit high strung. And, you know, I'm very, very, you know, I'm, you know, it can be tense at times, so my muscles were tensing up. So between my shoulder blades, I have these massive knots. Because I've worked with various massage therapists, and they're like, well, this is some of the biggest ones I've seen. And so it takes a lot. I don't know if you ever worked on knots. It takes a lot, A lot of repeated work. And then still this is there. And it's not just, you know, they're very difficult to get rid of, you know, your muscles, because this whole new memory between your muscle and a nervous system and it is clamped down besides the scar tissue. So what happens when you're on ketamine is that your muscles will relax. The point that you cannot do it just when you're fully conscious, you're not there. So then you have a chance of going deeper and breaking down the, you know, scar tissue or the. The tight knots. You're breaking them down painlessly. And then because of the rewiring of the neural network, the neurons and the muscle, the nerve endings and the muscles, it could reestablish new communication. So within a few weeks, the big knots between my shoulder blades was obliterated. They're gone. Yeah, it was pretty incredible because, you know, used to be anyone, if they'd give me massage and touch between my shoulder blades, I'll be like, yes, stay right there. Yeah, that's that. I call them the center of my universe. Just, Just, just work on those spots. And then after, you know, I did the body work on me with ketamine, and then if someone touched between my shoulder blades, it feels like they're touching, like, anywhere else on my back. It's no different. It was like, well, that's okay. Just, you know, just touching, Just, you know, like anywhere else. So also, when you are, let's say you have shoulder injury, right, and you may have certain areas that. That are clamped down or scarred up and are not really releasing the ketamine will allow you to relaxed to such extent where whoever that's working on, you can get much deeper into your tissue. And that's what, you know, one of the chiropractors that I've been working with, and he was amazed. He said, he said, you know, this. I can get so much deeper into someone.

That's very cool.

Yeah.

Wow. I Like that. I'm going to try that, actually. I think when I move here, I'm going to set up a little healing center and have a massage table and stuff. And that'll be one of the first orders of business, is to get some body work done on ketamine.

Yes, yes.

Because, you know, I was thinking about sometimes I look at the limited range of motion I have in certain joints and then have been told that when you're under full anesthesia, you're completely flexible because your nervous system isn't holding on, trying to protect itself in those ways that limit your range of motion because you got hurt before, you overextended, whatever. So I've always had that in mind. Like, huh, there's got to be a way to have your body manipulated when you're in that state. But obviously I can't go under anesthesia unsupervised. And what am I going to do? Go to the hospital with the masseuse and go, put me under. It's not practical, but this is a way perhaps to hack that.

Yeah, yeah. We monitor your vital signs. First of all, ketamine is extraordinarily safe. It's being used, I mean, for, for, for pediatrics, you know, pediatric use and you know, animals. But emergency settings, they've done a study where they did an emergency setting because, you know, when the paramedics go pick somebody up that's really, really agitated, they can give them intramuscular ketamine and they calmed down. Right. Right away. And I, at one time, they accidentally gave the person 16 times the, the upper limit and the person was still fine. And it was, it was funny. It was just reported in the literature. But it's extraordinarily safe.

Right. When, when, you know, to clarify, when practiced with the, you know, a licensed whatever.

Oh, yeah, I do not. Ever. Yeah, please do not go out there and just sit.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

And also it's. It's. When it's done in a clinically supervised setting, it's not addictive. So when people worry, oh, what if this is addictive? No, it's not addictive. So if you see literature, show me evidence, you know, that is more of a hype. It's not real.

It's funny you mentioned that because I was talking about ketamine on one of my podcasts and someone sent me a message on Instagram and said, this is very irresponsible of you. I was addicted to ketamine and now you're promoting it or something like that. And I thought, but, huh. That's weird. I mean, I guess one can get addicted to anything. They say weed's not addictive, and I was totally addicted to weed when I was a kid.

There's no physical dependence. So you don't, you don't get this withdrawal symptom and craving. You don't get that. You may be psychologically dependent on it because you, you feel, oh, I, I think I'll do better, or I, I need to relax. So psychologically, you, you want to do it, but not because physically that you. That, that, that there's withdrawal symptoms, not.

Like alcohol, cocaine, opiates, et cetera. Okay, cool. Good to know. All right, well, that's it, man. This is my last official interview in the city of Los Angeles. So thank you.

Conclusion of a wonderful, wonderful journey.

It's been a great 32 years and a couple more days. I'll be out of here by the time this comes out. I'll already have moved.

But no, we'll have to do it through zoom.

Well, no, I'm gonna, I'll come back. I mean, when I say my last Los Angeles interview, I'm gonna come back and record and we can do a follow up. But my last one here in the studio, I already took the wall down. You know, I had this, this, you know, like reclaimed wood wall, and I'm like, wow, the video looks different. It's so white in here. So thank you for, thank you for coming. And there is one last question I have for you, and that is, who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work that you could share with us?

Oh, geez, three teachers? I can't think of anyone. I mean, there's some philosophy philosophers, you know, I think I definitely resonate with, you know, Lao Tzu, you know, the, the Taoist, the, the, the, the. The guru that started Taoism, you know, talking about being in tune with nature and, you know, not fighting, not fighting the force, but, you know, use the flow of nature and just. He has a way of stepping outside of the. Just the, the bustles, you know, of life and take a look beyond. You know, I just, I love that feel of serenity and, and the same thing with Buddha. I think it's very enlightening when he is so willingly. Well, he's. Through his meditation that he realized he's accepting suffering is life, that life is composed of suffering, that just accept it. But it's all empty. He's talking about this void, right? It's all a void. I think the void is that this particular Realm, what we're dealing with really, it's, in the end, it's a play. It's a play to help us grow, help out our essence to grow. So this temperament, no matter how much suffering you see, no matter how heartbreaking it is, just know it's temporary. This is theater for us to grow. So, you know, I, I, and then recently I just, I was looking at Confucius. So funny. So Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism are the three religions or three philosophies that has dominated the Chinese society. That's really, if you ask what's the Chinese like, what, what do they believe in? The Chinese religion or philosophy is really composed of. It's an integral part of these three. So Confucianism, which I'm actually a descendant of Confucius, I'm a 73rd generation, so I have a, you know, affinity for it. Although I, I did not like him for a long time because he talked about how women is subordinate to men. I really hated that. I was just really upset with him.

But, but he Patriarchal spiritual teacher. Yeah, yeah.

But he's a man of great compassion because he grew up, you know, during the time of 2500 years ago, the tremendous chaos, wars, you know, all these little, you know, countries and regions. I mean, that's before, this is before China was united into one country. They were all fighting each other. People are dying or just misery. Right. People are cheating each other. So he decided, no, there must be a way of living harmoniously together. That and he found the way is to resort to our higher self. He talks about that as a superior man, that we can be the superior man. Instead of just allowing ourselves to run amok with our basic needs and our greed and animalistic instinct, that we resort to the higher self. And that is beautiful. And that form part of the Chinese philosophy of how the country, how people are treating each other and how the country is run. The rulers have to be benevolent. It's about resorting to our higher self. So through rituals that they're all, you know, kind of calling on the higher self, how to be a better man, man, be the superior man. And I think that took tremendous compassion. Right when nobody wanted to listen to you. He, he traveled for 13 years to all these countries and trying to persuade rulers to adopt his philosophy. And pretty much no one did. He thought he failed when he died, but it turned out that he became revered. And for the next, you know, almost 2500 years, that became the dominant philosophy. And he became the most revered person like his palace, the Confucius palace is the biggest palace outside of Forbidden City. So he, the whole family is very much revered. So I'm gaining a new respect for him because it takes so much compassion of love, of humanity to try to promote that there's a better way of living. So, yeah, that's awesome.

Thank you for those three. Yeah. I didn't know much about Confucius, but I am a little familiar with the dao. And that's, I mean I always, I just, I love paradox, you know, and the dao is all paradox.

Yes.

You know, because life is, if it's anything, it's paradoxical. Right. So thank you for the recommendation. And where can we find your websites? How can people find your clinic? The Chara Omni cream that I'm obsessed.

With, the Chara Omni you can just get online is just charaomni.com so chara c H A R A O m n I so charaomni.com and chara is the Greek word for joy. So it's, it's a. So the company I founded, Chara Biologics, that provides stem cell companies to doctors throughout the country. Actually, it's really the. But what I want to bring is more joy to the world and I think there's joy in healing. So chara, it's a beautiful, it's not just average happiness, it's actually joy. So Chara Omni is a cream and you can find me from. At our clinic. So the clinic is Thea center for Regenerative Medicine. So the website is just Thea CRM. So T H E A C R M dot com and yeah, so you can, you know, our office, if you want to call us, is a 1-835-68232 and we, we love helping anybody that wants to experience these cutting edge treatment modalities.

Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on the show and thank you for treating me the other day and giving me the tour of the office. You guys are doing some really cool stuff. Just when I think I had Los Angeles on lock, I'm like, I know all the great spots and it's like, oh, there's another one that I didn't know about. So I'm really glad to meet you and to experience your stem cell treatments. Man, I'm excited. And when I'm well healed enough, I'm going to come out here every six months.

Oh, yes.

You know, so yeah, yeah, I appreciate it.

That would probably be the best investment that you will ever make because, you know, I talk with people. And, oh, there was one patient, he comes to see me every three months. He said, man, this is the best investment ever. I'm investing in myself. He said, my friends that are investing stock is, like, you know, who cares? This is your best investment.

Yeah. Agreed.

Yeah.

All right, well, thanks for coming on.

You're so welcome. It's been a blast. We cover a lot of grounds.

We sure did, yeah.