The Power of Methylene Blue | Dr. Steve Warren & Dan Schmidt | THE DR. JOY. KONG PODCAST

What's your guys thoughts on this trend and when did it start?

Year and a half after Covid. People coming in and they just couldn't remember their names. They couldn't remember their kids names, they couldn't get to work. I had one Guy who was 38, hadn't been at work for over a year. He just couldn't function. And I started on the methylene blue and within a week he was ready to go back to work. He just am still shocked. It's been over two years and he's just doing so well and hasn't had the brain fog again. Boy, we need to make a product with methylene blue in it. They help get rid of the brain fog. And then we started doing more research and realized, wow, we really got a good chemical here. That there's real repurposing to this old drug. It's not even a drug, it's a dye. That's the fun part.

Hello. Welcome Back to the Dr. Joy Kahn podcast. This is where I bring in amazing guests to enhance your understanding and knowledge about what you can do to improve your health. And there's a whole world of new medicine, medicine of holistic approach to medicine or new scientific breakthroughs. So I'm inviting some of the most interesting guests to help you live a better life. So today I'm really excited. I have two wonderful guests. One is Dr. Warren, the other one is Dan Schmidt. So Dr. Warren, Dan, thank you so much for coming on. And we're going to be focusing on methylene blue.

Cool.

We're excited to be here. Thanks for having us on.

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, methylene blue has gained popularity, right? So you've seen, we've seen on social media all these biohackers sticking their tongue out, you know, showing off their blue tongue and as a great biohacking trick. So what, what's your guys thoughts on this trend and when did it start?

Well, you know, it's for at least. My point is, like I mentioned before, when I started seeing all these people with post Covid, whether it was vaccines or having Covid, they had that brain fog and they're coming in your office just people in their 30s and 20s and 50s and they just didn't know. They couldn't remember their names, they couldn't work, they couldn't function. And I remember years ago using methylene Blue in the ICUs for traumatic brain injury and for cardiovascular shock, I would give them a bag of IV fluids to help their brain. And I thought, wow, let me start researching about methylene blue found out a lot of cool things about methylene blue and said, let's try it. So I started IV methylene blue, started getting people, you know, the brain fogs. When they started feeling better. They're actually a lot of their post Covid symptoms went away. And I said, went to a couple of colleagues and said, boy, we need to make a product with methylene blue in it to help get rid of the brain fog. And then we started doing more research and realized, wow, we really got a good chemical here. That's been ignored. It's been around for 130 years. Everybody's just ignored it. And we started out, you know, pushing it and few other people are jumping on board realizing that there's real repurposing to this old drug. It's not even a drug, it's a die. That's the fun part I see is.

This soon after CO started?

Yeah, just right out, about a year, year and a half after Covid when I started, people coming in and they just couldn't remember their names. They couldn't remember their kids names. They couldn't get to work. I had one Guy who was 38, hadn't been at work for over a year. He just couldn't function. He still had four little kids at home and his wife was desperate, and that was probably the first person I started on the methylene blue. And within a week, he was ready to go back to work. He just. I'm still shocked. I again saw him yesterday and it's been over two years and he's just doing so well and hasn't had the brain fog again. He is taking our tablets, though, in case, you know, in addition to we had the iv. But he's done very well.

Yeah. So in the past, when you were in the ICU using methylene blue, what kind of results were you getting?

It was helping all these people with the shock, trauma, you know, where they, you know, cardiovascular surgery, sometimes they're heart failure and they almost die. And bringing them back, they'd have that confusion and the brain swelling and just couldn't function. And that's when we were using the methylene blue for those patients. I have some ICU nurses, you know, older ICU nurses working in my practice right now, and they now say, man, remember when everybody was going down the hill and didn't have anything else to do? They'd say, bring in the methylene blue and we'd give the methylene blue to them iv and they'd have the benefits. Nowadays in the hospitals, they use it as a dye, you know, to see if there's holes in your bowels or to test other things. But back then, it was used all the time for all this bad trauma in the brain. And they remembered, and I remembered it really made a difference in their. In their brain functions at that particular time. Now we find out that also methyl and blue can help with the heart, so probably had some cardiovascular benefits at that time. But when we were using is mainly for brains so they could function and. And get out of the icu.

Okay. So I understand that it was started a long time ago. I guess the first medical use was when they realized there were anti malaria properties of the. Of this substance. Right.

This dye, they knew back in. In World War I, they were using it for the soldiers, not only for malaria, but also for UTIs and prostatitis and infections, any type of infections they knew was a good antimicrobial. Before that time, it was used as a dye for dyeing your Levis. And the dying is a synthetic dye. But they started using it in the soldiers and. And eventually they found out that they didn't like peen blue all the time, so they purified it. And eventually the last purification of methylene blue is hydroxychloroquine. That again, used a little bit for Covid. We used it for rheumatoid arthritis. We use it for malaria. And so. And then just went out of favor for a while because they started making drugs from the big pharma and. And the methylene blue is a dye just sort of faded away till we started bringing it back out again.

Mm. And I understand all the hospitals have to have methylene blue on hand, correct?

That's what I've heard. Yeah.

And it's important for fighting carbon monoxide.

Yeah, that's what they do. That's the big thing for people who get the, you know, carbon monoxide poisoning. That's the other big thing they use in the hospitals for, is to help get that, you know, carbon monoxide out of the. Out of the mitochondria and put in good oxygen into the cells. And so nowadays that's the main purpose as well as using it for an agent to track perforations in the bowels or to follow other things. But the carbon monoxide poison is the big thing it's being used in hospitals for.

Yeah. So it's. I mean, some people may be hesitant to use it because it was a dye. Right. Some people say was synthetic and it was a dye. So. And it was used in fish tanks yeah, right. Some people are a little afraid. What would you say to that?

I'll let Dan talk because I've done all the talking. Then I'll add on to him. So.

Okay.

You're doing great, Doc. You know, he's a wealth of knowledge. It's, you know, one of the things where they used it in fish tanks was to help oxygenate the water and keep down fungus, bacteria, virus in the water. The problem with, with, with using what was done for fish tanks is it could be high in metal toxicities. And so with the pharmaceutical grade, it does not have that problem as far as, you know, really having any of those toxicity issues if using the, the proper methylene blue. So you don't want to use what's being used in a fish tank. You want to use a pharmaceutical grade methylene blue. So very important for those that are out there to, to know the difference. But no, there's, you know, the real side effect of taking methylene blue is when you urinate or it comes out of the body. As far as that dye, it will actually be a, you know, you'll urinate a little bit blue or you'll see the blue staining like you talked about in the mouth, where people are kind of doing that and showing off that they have the blue mouth, which, which is not necessary as, as Doc was talking about that earlier. You can take droppers and put it back and further in the, in the throat or whatnot, and, and not turn blue. It is nice and let people know, hey, just the awareness of methylene blue. But you don't have to have a blue mouth in order to do that or join the blue man group in order to take methylene blue. Yeah, but as, as far as taking it. No, there's not a real adverse problem with taking that. You know, as far as the, the dye itself, it's actually, there's a purpose for that dye. Doc. Doc can talk a little bit more about the medical use and how it can donate and take away different electrons so it can actually change color in time as well. People notice that sometimes methylene blue, when it's more oxygenated, will turn darker blue. And so that color can change in time depending upon its state or what it's around.

So different color gradients are having different meanings, right?

Exactly right. You know, sometimes it's like. And again, in your urine, it can be even green because you have yellow urine and blue turns green. So we just monitor that. But even the product itself, depending how much oxygen it's put it in, can change A little different shades of blue. And then I tell the people, if they remember how many people would eat mold off their bread, well, that's how they got penicillin, as eating mold. So I mean, it's just the same thing. They'll say, well, sort of natural. And this is basically, even though it's called synthetic, it's coming from natural minerals that have just been, you know, mined and changed a little bit to make the methylene blue. But, but we know we can do it iv. It's been used years for an IV and we just not had any real side effects from it as well as, you know, the way we're talking about all the antimicrobial benefits it has. It does change colors. But I don't remember if you ever played in your sororities or fraternity houses, you slip methylene blue into the drinks and everybody go home and pee blue and thought they were dying is one of the tricks. And then if you ever had a chemistry labs, you know, you'd put methyl blue in one vasque, add something to it, shake it and turn just pure, crystal clear. And then you'd shake it another time and go back blue again. And so that was one of the experiments, if you can remember back from your high school chemistry classes, one of the tricks to use with methylene blue turning clear to the leuko methylene blue and then back again to blue, depending on what you added to it. So it's been a molecule that's been used in science labs for years, but now we're finding all these great health properties to it.

Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, about the colors, I understand. You know, another interesting, you know, aspect about the molecule is that it has such a brain enhancing properties and it was found to be a good antipsychotic, which is really fascinating. And you know, I, I was a psychiatrist. You know, I worked as a psychiatrist for 11 years. And one of the main issues about psychiatry is compliance from the patients. Are they taking the medication? So the color as a way to decide whether or not a person is actually taking the medications is very interesting.

Yeah, that's been mentioned before. That's how you kept it. That's why the soldiers didn't like it back in World War I, because the sergeants knew if they were taking the medication, urine was blue, they were taking it. If it wasn't, they weren't doing their job. So the same thing in psychiatry, they've mentioned that before about trying to help them with that direction.

So, yeah, so, I mean, it sounds like this Molecule is bring about, bringing about so many different aspects to improve health. So it's quite fascinating. What would be the mechanism of how this molecule works?

Well the one thing that makes it the coolest molecule when you look at everything that's out there, is probably one of the few molecules that actually can bring things into the mitochondria. Because everything in our body is the mitochondria. It's where we make the ATP, that's where we make all the energy. And methylene blue could go across the membrane there, bring oxygen, bring good healthy properties into it, helps the NAD and the NADH convert. But at the same time we start producing toxins inside the mitochondria and the reactive oxygen species and other toxins. And that's the other cool thing about methylene blue. At the same time it can take all those agents out and put them back into the blood to go to the kidneys to be excreted. So it's one of the few molecules that's only not an anti inflammatory, it's also a redox chemical at the same time. So very few products can go in, bring things into the mitochondria, repair it and then take all the crap out of the mitochondria to improve the health. And there's no other molecule that really can do it that well versus methylene blue. That's what makes it so exciting. So whether the mitochondria are in your, in your brain, whether in your heart, whether wherever they're in your body, you know, those mitochondria are going to be improved from the methylene blue. So its biggest, you know, benefit is it's a myochondria mitochondrial enhancer improving mitochondrial health. And it's just if you really look at it, it's hard to believe they can do all of that in the mitochondria. Both bring in good things and take out bad things.

What kind of good things does it bring?

You know, it brings in the oxygen it brings in, it brings in the, it can also convert the molecules inside the mitochondria from changing from NAD to ndh. So that can help release the ATP in the body. So that's energizing the body through the mitochondria. And then after it's there, all those reactive oxygen species that are left there, then it can take those out which improves the mitochondria health by getting out the garbage out of the mitochondria.

So it can actually take out the.

The toxins or the, it takes out the toxins? Yeah, those reactive actually carry Them with it. Yep. Take it out and deposit it in that blue urine. Wow. So that's what makes it so urine.

That you just produced, Right?

That's right.

It's toxic urine. Yeah. So.

Because I've been taking it, you know, for. For quite a. Quite a few months, I definitely enjoy looking at the. The blue urine. But now it's taking on a whole new meaning. Now I know there's a bunch of bad things that.

Good things going out. Right? The bad things going out, good things.

In, bad things out.

So, yeah, so let's go over some of the benefits that's been noticed. So we talked about, you know, first the antimicrobial. So what kind of evidence do we have on the antimicrobial properties?

Well, one of the studies that we've done also over in Africa was it really just killed malaria like nobody's business. I mean, within four weeks, the people's lives will go back to normal. We know from even, like he's saying in the fish tanks, we know that it killed all the microbials, whether it's viral, fungal. And so the studies have been done that way, showing as a micro. As an antimicrobial, it kills the bacteria, funguses, viruses at the same time. So those studies have been out there doing that. And, and there's a lot of evidence and studies that show it, but especially in the area of malaria, that it just kills malaria and can just.

Do we know how it does it?

I think it's. Again, I don't, you know, I don't know how it goes. It has to deal with going into the, into the, The. To the bacteria and sort of exploding. It is, as far as I can tell, you know, and they really haven't delineated it that much. I just know that the studies say it kills it, but I got to go maybe study a little bit more to see how it does kill it, so.

And I think you guys even had a study about COVID using methylene blue. Correct.

We have mostly the post covenants. You know, if there's a podcast, it was. I listened to yesterday, actually this morning talking about that Covid itself, the virus itself went inside the mitochondria went inside when the NAD change and actually put some new things into the mitochondria that weren't there before. And, and the guy this morning was talking out of England saying that. And he didn't talk about methylene blue, but he said, if we can find ways of getting those toxins out of the mitochondria, we're going to help with post Covid symptoms in patients. And I'm going, yeah, we got to try the methylene blue because it will take those particular agents out there. But this COVID virus really messed up a lot of people's mitochondria health, which at the source, where they have neurological problems, whether they have heart problems, whether they had lung problems, is coming from the COVID effect in that mitochondria and, and setting up these new particles inside the mitochondria that weren't there naturally. It was artificially put in there. And so if we can take those and remove them with the mild, you know, the methylene blue, I think we're going to help post COVID patients feel a lot better and improve their mitochondrial health so they have energy and feel better and recover from the damage that they've had.

Hmm. Okay. And when it comes to brain health, you think the benefits are all related to mitochondria or are there any?

I think it's partly, you know, as you just mentioned as a psychiatrist, there are some MEO inhibitor type of benefits with it. And so my patients that have been using it, I mean, one of the precautions we talk about is using it with SSRIs or something that causes serotonin syndrome. We have a board certified psychiatrist that works with us who fails. Unless you're on massive doses of those, you're not going to see the serotonin syndrome because we always talk about it, but nobody's very, you know, you probably never saw it in your career because we always talk about it, but nobody's ever seen a serotonin syndrome. But, but it acts like an MAO inhibitor, opening up that part of the brain to help with depression and anxiety. So we're seeing that effect on patients. Not only is the brain fog going, their anxiety is down, they're feeling better. And that's what a lot of people's anxiety is, that they don't think they're ever going to feel better after Covid or they're anxious because they're not feeling better because they have no energy. And if we can put the energy into their bodies through the mitochondria, they're going to feel like, hey, it's worth living and kicking around.

Hmm. Yeah. And I mean, of course there are a lot of brain disorders, including dementia and traumatic brain injury. And you know, besides the mental health issues, what have you seen when it comes to neurodegenerative issues?

Well, we've seen with the traumatic brain injuries, again, remember in the icu, they were all traumatic brain Injuries, whether it was a stroke, whether it was a cardiovascular accident. So we're finding that same benefits. And Dan can say with his experience with it, but with the people with TBIs, it's really been helping them. We have a variation of it for some severe TBIs, but I think we're seeing a lot of benefits again, repairing all those mitochondria in the brain and helping stop anxiety and repairing the brain. But the TBI stuff is just phenomenal how well it's working for it.

Absolutely. When we look at that, you know, you get. When we have traumatic brain injury or we have something happen, we have a lot of inflammation in the brain. You know, we've got mitochondrial dysfunction. We talked about mitochondria. But when it's in dysfunction and not working properly or shuts down and gets that inflammation, things just build up and get worse and worse and worse. So when we can actually, with the methylene blue, we can actually oxygenate at a cellular level and bring more oxygen to the brain, become more of a neuroprotectant and be able to let it do its job in the brain, where we're getting the neurotransmission that it should happen, Great things happen. People are feeling a lot better. They're. They're able to have their memory recall better energy, of course. So interestingly enough, the brain actually takes at rest over 20% of our oxygen and our ATP production. And so a lot of times people like, I just, I feel that fog, right? It's because most of that energy is going to the brain. They just don't have the body energy to get up and go and do things. And people say, oh, you're just lazy. Just get up and do something. They literally don't have that energy. It's not their fault. It's because the mitochondria is in dysfunction. And as Dr. Warren talked about, that's our energy production. And if that energy production is just going to, you know, the brain only, we just don't have that body energy that we need to do things. And so by taking that, it really helps everything, not only in the brain function, but in energy in the body. And when your body starts feeling better, our brain feels better, and we just feel much better. Total health.

So cognition, of course, is a serious concern for a lot of people. Well, for probably everybody. Have you guys seen anecdotally what happens when a person has memory decline or early dementia? You know, if they've gotten any benefit from this?

You know, at least in my practice, I've done early Dementia. We've done some younger kids, first of all. Well, I'll tell you two other things that's interesting and that's it's younger kids. We've seen some real improvements with kids that might have some, you know, difficulties in learning and functioning. We've also, Personally, I've taken 20 people off Adderall and we find that just the patients that start taking that have been on Adderall said, hey, we don't get the let down. Our brains function good, we can get everything done. I had a manual. A gentleman who's a big executive of a marketing company asked me a few weeks ago. He said, what do you want to write an article on for a magazine? And I said, well, how about methylene blue? And says, oh, that sounds boring. I said, well, give it a try and I'll talk to you in a week. I call him in a week. And I said, so what do you think? He says, my staff wants to know why all my projects are done, why my desk is clear, and I showed up to all the meetings on time.

Oh, my God.

Let's do the article on methylene blue to be more efficient. So we're finding it with patients who've been on Adderall or Vyvanse or Ritalin, whether they're teenagers or any age that have attention deficit. It seems to help them pull everything together without all the letdowns of a medication. Because you know when you take Adderall and it wears out how bad you feel. And there's no letdown with the methylene blue. So it's replacing Adderall in a lot of patients or Vyvanser rhythm. And that's what I really like about it. So we're helping the younger kids, we're helping those with ADD and the early dementias, they're able to function better because it's helping produce better glutathione in the cells. It's getting rid of the toxins. And I've seen some improvements in our patients with early dementia. So I think whether it's the young kids to the, to the older people, it's making a big difference. We even had, Dan can say we had some lady call us up who was using it for her baby and she was breastfeeding, she went, her breast milk was a little blue, but the baby's thrush went away and the baby started feeling better. So who knows? But we haven't done any studies in that arena, but we know it's safe for everybody. But I'll tell you, if we could get people off of, as, you know, as a psychiatrist, off of Ritalin or any of those stimulants. Boy, we're further ahead in the world and I think people take this and they can get off those medications. They're so happy because it's hard to get Adderall, first of all, in our country anymore. And if they can take a natural product that gets rid of their, their anxiety and they can feel better and they can focus, boy, we've made a big winner with patients. And I think the same thing is going to be seen with, with the dementia. We've added some other products, nicotinamide and some NAC to help some of the brain development for the dementia patients. But I think we're going to see a lot of improvement in dementia as we start using it. More and more patients at that age.

H. Interesting. Yeah. And personally, I've seen people around me who had ADHD and who definitely are doing better where they don't need to take the medication and they seem to be, you know, functioning better. Yeah, so. So it, it obviously works. What about, what about potential for, like, habituation? Like, you know, when people take Adderall, over time their brain receptors starts to not respond as well anymore. Does this happen to methylene blue?

We haven't seen any tolerance to it. You know, we start out some on our pills at two a day, up to four a day. We've not seen anybody. I've not had any patients since I've been using it for over a year say they needed to use more and more. And there's no. And you stop at cold turkey, you don't get the withdrawal. There's no withdrawal effects from it. So we've not seen any first tolerance buildup and no indication of any addiction with it. And people can take it or leave it without any of that, you know, withdrawals that you get from coming off of Adderall. So I think that's the nice thing. And like I said, the tolerance part, we've not seen anybody getting intolerant. It's still going in, doing its job, helping the mitochondria improve themselves. And so we've not seen any tolerance to it. I. Have you, Dan, seen anybody?

No, we haven't. In fact, we've actually seen people doing better, so better outcomes because it's when we're taking other medications, a lot of times there's other, you know, side effects with the methylene blue and the combination of some things, we're seeing a lot of side benefits. So we're getting mitochondrial Health. Right. And that. That's actually showing up in. Not just in. In brain and focus, but in body energy. The. The whole system starts working better because we have mitochondria in every cell of our body except for red blood cells. So it's helping everywhere. And that's kind of the difference. There's a lot of side benefits that we're experience. So really, you're not dependent on it. You can go on it, have it, you know, during the week, go off it on a weekend if you just need that beauty of add, Right? Because there is beauty in. In that. Right?

There is like that we're creative, but there's.

There's times you just have to focus. And I know because I'm in that category, but we get so many people and we get a lot of, you know, we talk about different outcomes, and these are things that we see in testimonials, which are fantastic, but people have to experience for themselves. But just to share a little bit, we have a lot of people that come back and go, oh, my gosh, and this could be bad for husbands. But, you know, we had one that came back and said, boy, his memory is so much better. He's listening to me. He's actually, you know, following through on things or just like what Dr. Warren talked about. They're able to finish tasks and do things and remember things. And so, you know, we think about. As we get old, we're always told, don't worry, it's natural to forget. It's natural to. It's not, you know, we need to keep our mind sharp. And this is one of the ways that we can stay sharp and not just go, you know, we're told, just grow old gracefully. Well, there's. There's no. No need to grow old gracefully. It's keep that cognitive, you know, enhancement as much as possible, and it is really a cognitive booster.

Yeah, yeah, that. That's right. Just look at some of the people who lived over 100 years old and sharp as tack, right? So those.

That's right.

That's what you can be and you should be. So. And it's nice that we actually have tools to help with that. What about autism? Have you had any experience with autism, Dan?

Tell your stories, then I'll tell mine.

So, yes, we have. We have people that have been using it with great success. As far as with autism, again, autism is considered to be one of those. That is a mitochondrial dysfunction or something sustaining from mitochondrial dysfunction, but just in alertness and in cognitive awareness of kids that are all the way down to as young as three that are taking it, putting it in their drinker and water and they're using on a regular basis and they're seeing a great improvement. And this is on many that are in the spectrum.

Yeah, I mean we hate to say that they can talk or do other things, but we've seen some reports back that the kids are talking, they're focusing better in classroom, they're not so fidgety and that makes a big difference on their self pride and then they just do better. So we haven't done much, we're still learning in that category but the reports that we've had coming back to us have been just amazing. I'm really happy to hear these parents are very happy, you know, seeing that benefit with their kids.

Amazing. Yeah. So I think Dan mentioned a little bit about reducing inflammation. So is that one of the major benefits also of methylene blue?

It was seen that same as an anti inflammatory and stops the inflammation again. Remember the final product of it was hydroxychloroquine that we use for rheumatoid arthritis to stop that damaging arthritis and the inflammation. So again we're seeing that same benefits with, with the, you know, the brain and other parts of the body decrease in inflammation. You know, we don't have the yet the lab work to show that, you know, decrease in sed rates or age, you know, high sensitivity crps. But we're having reports saying, you know, joints feel better, their bodies feel better. Anytime we can decrease inflammation anywhere, they're going to do better. So it gets all back to that mitochondria that we keep preaching about because it's the source of everything. Just like Dan said, it's in every cell except red blood cells. And so it's going to help in the joints, it's going to help in the muscles. Anytime we can get more oxygen there, take away the toxins, we're going to get rid of the inflammation because it's those reactive oxygen species that stay in there that cause the inflammation as the body's trying to attack it. If we can remove them, then the inflammation is going to go down.

Okay, so have you guys seen benefits in autoimmune diseases again?

You know, just sort of new. And so we're just learning, you know, as we were selling it and talking to people, we're just getting reports back. You know, I can't say it helps with like, you know, the autoimmunes of the thyroid.

You can't make any claims, so I.

Can'T make Any claims? All I know is that people feel better. Even if you did have an autoimmune disease, if you're feeling better mentally and have a little bit more energy, it's easier to cope with it. So we're not going to cure anything, but maybe they'll just feel better. So we just.

It's those stories, those side benefits we talked about. Right. So it's helping all over.

Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. So any. Anything else that you guys have noticed in patients that were surprising, you know, we're, you know, happy surprise for you, you know, during.

Oh, go ahead, go ahead, Doc.

Well, I was going to say the other thing we're finding methylene blue that we're working on too, is it also helps stop aging of the skin. So, you know, we have some ideas in that area of, of things, of move music in the skin, but even just orally, we're seeing that it's helping as, as a skin. There was an article written that I'm looking at right now just last year in Cell magazine that pointed out all the, the benefits from it. And you start looking at the benefits, everything from skin to slowing down the aging process to skin aging. I already mentioned that one. And, and helping us. A lot of old, I mean, hereditary diseases, they're finding all this, this fd and excuse me, the methylene blue, since it's taking out toxins and bringing good things in, we're seeing all those improvements, but we see people saying, hey, our skin feels better and doing better, so it's helping. And then the aging process is what I'm interested in, longevity. And I think it's going to slow down that aging process. You know, we haven't had the big studies done from, you know, the big universities, those ITP companies that look at methylene blue. But, you know, our patients, I think are feeling better, they have more energy. And if we can keep the mitochondria from dying and staying healthier, we're going to live longer and be healthier. So.

Yeah, well, it should be too difficult to conduct a study on mice. Right. To see if we can lifespan.

Nope, we can start doing that. We're just at the beginning of this and just need to do. I mean, there's a lot of studies. If you go into PubMed and pull them up, you can't believe the thousands of articles have been written on methylene blue since that everybody studies it. No one's ever taken to application. And that's what we're trying to do is take it to the application of all the studies They've done.

And there are some things that we are looking at doing as far as doing sub. There's some new genome testing that are out there that we're looking at doing on, specifically on some of the products that we offer, just, you know, to show the difference of what it can do or what it does do. So there are some things that are coming up in the works here hopefully shortly that we're going to be able to show some of those things in a study. But like Doc said, a lot of these are newer things that are happening. But the great thing is we're just getting a lot of doctors that are using it across the country that are seeing the same results as Dr. Warren is talking about in his clinic all over. And as you know from some of these other things that A4M and ozone and all these other things, it just helps everything. And so if there's other people that are using other treatments like ozone therapy or hyperbarics or you know, you know, they're using light therapies, red light therapies, all those are to help oxygenation into the, in the body. And so methylene blue is a carrier of oxygen. So if you can actually, you know, increase that oxygen capability, great things happen. And that's one of the things our bodies are oxygen deprived during COVID with mass. You think about it, we, we, we're depriving ourselves and basically aging ourselves a little bit over time by not being able to get enough oxygen. And so when we can get that cellular respiration, amazing things happen. And really longevity and health. You're familiar with telomere lengthening and a lot of people may not, but you know, that's what we're looking at, longevity and anti aging. So the more that we can get ourselves to have less inflammation, get rid of those reactive oxygen species that, you know, our bodies attack. Guess what? The younger the better look we look and the better we feel and the better our memories and cognitive function is.

There's also, as a study just came out today, talk about mitochondria health in the gut and how it actually helps with the lipids. And they were showing a study about how if we can improve mitochondrial health in the gut, we're going to decrease that absorption of lipids across the vein, you know, the blood, excuse me, across the gut barrier and not put lipids in our body. So I mean, I just saw that this morning, started thinking, wow, that's another application for it. We also been using it in conjunction with our weight loss programs to help both improve their Energy, heck, and feel better. But also, you know, we know that people focus on foods and if, if methylene blue can help people not focus on foods and help them do better, we're, we're adding it to my weight loss program to everybody, just to help them focus on the right things with their weight loss. And then we're seeing these secondary effects of the myochondria being healthier. So the patients have energy because as you know, anytime you do a program, whether you're just doing a regular weight loss program or doing one of the, your GLP1 programs, you have that dragging feeling you have. And our patients have been doing better with more energy as we introduce the methylene blue to their weight loss program. And if it now helps with the lipids, that's another big boost. And then keeps their mind focusing on their diet. They don't seem to have as much, you know, cravings for other foods. So we're still investigating a lot of these areas as Dan's talking about.

Hmm, interesting. Yeah, that kind of brings about the whole aspect of biohackers, because biohackers cares mostly about their energy level, you know, how well the brain function, how long they're going to live. Right. So what about performance? Have you guys noticed that any athletes are really liking methylene blue and thinking.

It'S helpful they're, you know, to talk a little bit on, on products. So methylene blue, as long as it's methylene blue and it's really a pharmaceutical grade methylene blue, they're pretty equal across the board. That's, that's methylene blue. It's what you do at the methylene blue. So one of our products we've been using for athletes, professional athletes, is a combination of our L theanine and caffeine, which actually our caffeine speeds up to slow down. This is one of the ones that Dr. Warner is talking about for. You know, we really are. People are using for replacement of other, other medication that's out there, but we're speeding up to slow down. But what happens is we're actually gaining that energy. But in the long run, we're getting longer ATP and, you know, production. And so it's been great for performance, for energy, Endurance athletes are feeling it. As Dr. Warner is talking about with, with diet, you're now getting into your natural ATP production, burning your natural sugars and your fats, which are even a better source of energy. So you feel more. Really people just say, I just feel good. I don't feel like I have to Eat. Because I'm now getting that endurance and that energy. So people are feeling that both and just on, on their weight loss that they're doing it with or just really in athletes. We've been doing that like I said for, you know, almost nine years now with the combination of caffeine, althenine with the kicker of the methane blue. Absolutely fantastic for that. So you definitely feel that. And it's a long term product.

That's a product called adhd. Right. I don't know what it stands for, but it's definitely good for adhd.

It is.

Adderall.

Yeah, correct, Correct.

But that is also the one that's popular for sports and for probably appetite control.

Sounds correct.

Yes.

Yeah.

So when you, when you think about it, it makes total sense. Well, the other thing too is that people that are, have long, long hauler. Well Covid long haulers or things of that nature or say, for example, they've got Epstein Barr or they've got, you know, anything that's, that's holding them down. Energy problems. Right. Or even though we have a lot of people with neuropathy that just, they don't feel they can get up and go. Well, by taking that you're getting brain and body energy is really what I call it. So we're getting the energy so that the brain feels good, but our body also has energy so we can actually get up and function and do things and get the body to its point where it's now actually out of that misfunction and actually into function for ATP production. So again, it only makes sense if we can give the body what it needs and burns. Right. We have better energy. And of course we're using our, our stored energy or our sugars that we're eating to burn. So it, it makes total sense why we have, you know, endurance and long term energy.

Yeah. So maybe this is a good segue to talk about how you guys got into kind of the product side on providing people with really interesting methylene blue products. So Dr. Warren, you have been a clinician for a very long time. For a long time. And you've had lots.

Very long time.

That's me showing respect. So. Yeah, so a long time. And you got really excited about methylene blue and wanting to bring more interesting kind of combinations of, of ingredients to, to the, to people.

Yeah, that's correct. Because you know, when the post COVID patients come to your office and they're just miserable and they just look at you. Well, they go up to the hospitals or the universities and they don't have any answers except for more drugs. And those drugs cause drug. Drug interactions and they get more side effects. So when they come here sort of desperate, you could do something like an IV with some vitamin seeds and some minerals and other B vitamins and then add methylene blue and they start feeling better. Boy, the word passes that they're feeling better. And then, you know, then we start putting the tablets and like Dan said, try different products and combinations. Some people don't like, you know, the, the caffeine idea. So we put it with vitamin C as an oral form. But we're getting people that can start taking supplements, simple, with no side effects. There's no drug, drug interactions. There's no drug that you can take with methylene blue, except for, like I said, if you're on high, high doses or SSRIs. There's one other, one other caveat, and that is you have that G6P, you know, deficiency, which rarely people do. And if they do, they know about it by now because it's hereditary. That's another sort of contraindication. But other than that, there's really no contraindication. So we're able to apply it to a lot of different patients. And that makes me feel better inside. I'm able to do something simple to make such a big difference in their lives, and they really appreciate it. It's fun to hear all the people writing back and say, man, I'm off my Adderall. My kids are off Adderall. I'm feeling better. I can focus or I have more energy. Well, that makes us all feel a lot better.

Yeah. And Dan, how did you get into all this? Is it because of Dr. Warren?

Well, yes. Well, Dr. Warren works with Dr. Warren for, for many years now. But also our co founder, Darren Lopez, has also been doing a lot in the nutraceutical space as well. And so into sports and athletics, into health and wellness and really in this nutritional space specifically. And we were, you know, one of the things that's, that's really neat about our product is we talk about methylene blue. And one of the things we did is. Well, we did, we did a lot of testing. We even bought the SARS CoV2 virus from the CDC and actually did testing with it other mineral oxide. But one of the things that's really neat about our mineral oxide is stabilized oxygen. But it includes many other, you know, well, as magnesium chloride. Many other things that are, are in that as well. But with that stabilized oxygen, it's able to supercharge the ability of the methylene blue to oxygenate cellularly. And so we're getting better respiration because we're getting more oxygen. That. That methylene blue is carrying the other thing.

All your products in, in all the different forms.

No, that happens to be in our. What we call our brain fog, which is our liquid tincture. And the reason why it is only in the liquid tincture or in liquid is because that mineral oxide only comes in a. In a liquid as far as when you make it. So it does that. But it also helps vitamin C to be able to be absorbed solely as well, rather than having, you know, a lot of vitamin C is not very well absorbed, but with the mineral oxide, it's absorbed thoroughly, very quickly. And so that's a little different when it comes to the brain fog. So we're getting more oxygenation, we're getting the minerals, we're getting the mineral chlorides, you know, so works for eczematic reactions throughout the body. So very helpful. Some people don't like to take a tincture. So as Dr. Warren mentioned, we have one that has our. Our just our vitamin C and our methylene blue tablet, which is a swallowable oral tablet. Very convenient to take with you. And that's our other form of our methylene blue. What is it as far as. That one's our NeuroPro plus, we call it.

Oh, okay. What's interesting. So I actually take both the liquid form and the NeuroPro plus and Night. So I think the. The brain fog, the tincture is the more it has a higher dose of methylene blue. Correct.

It. It doesn't, but it feels like it almost to the extent. Because you're getting that supercharged the oxygen.

Okay.

But on the Neural Pro plus, it has 15 milligrams of methylene blue per dose. On the brain fog, it has 10.

Okay, interesting. I can, you know, attest to the taste of the product. I think it's the best tasting, you know, oral form out there. I refuse to take other ones because I've tried. There's no way. I just don't want to deal with it. Yeah. So actually it tastes better. Pretty good. And you can put in the. In the back of your tongue and then drink a water right away. So you barely stain your tongue.

I mean.

Correct.

Yeah. If you're not careful. If you start talking before you.

Yeah. Or you lick your teeth beforehand or after.

Yeah. So. So what's different about your tincture compared to other tinctures out there? I understand yours has vitamin C. Does no other products have vitamin C or the.

Well, we have, we have a patent pending on a lot of our products or combinations of methylene blue with other supplements. But one of the most important things is really that mineral oxide. It's the mineral oxide that makes the vitamin C more absorbable. And so otherwise a lot of times you'll have vitamin C they'll put it with, you know, as far as a fat or a lipid to try and, you know, have better absorption of vitamin C thoroughly. And that's one of the things that's different about ours specifically. No, no other product has that. When it comes to the vitamin C. With the methylene Blue and the 15 milligram tablet, again, that's a combination that's, that's specifically ours as well.

So which is really important to help protect the brain, right, for people to, I guess, decrease inflammation, rejuvenate mitochondria and all that when they take it at night. So what's the difference between a neuropro and the brain fog? Besides one is a tablet, the other one is liquid.

It's that mineral oxide. Okay, so it's a liquid mineral oxide. That is the difference between the two. And you'll, you'll feel a little bit of the difference. If people need to take more methylene blue, if they have, you know, further dementia or other things they're concerned with, you can take two tablets and get up to 30 milligrams a day. And so it just depends. And some people just like the convenience of being able to take it with them, not worrying about maybe staining their clothes or, or dropping it or having, you know, things of that nature or taste, depending on, on who's using it, but very convenient. And you know what, here's the other thing is the, the, the who and some other places have also said the methylene blue is important product to keep on hand for emergencies. So it's very easy to keep that, you know, in your, you know, bag of tricks in the long run as far as having methylene blue on hand, you know, in the long run for emergency use.

Emergencies. What kind of emergencies are you?

Interesting. There's a podcast, one of the big, you know, podcast people in the country said, man, if you're going to have a heart attack, you'd want methylene blue in one pocket and aspirin in the other pocket so that the aspirin stops the clotting and the methylene blue opens up the vessels and brings oxygen to those mitochondria. So that was his conclusion. He's a major Major podcast guy. And if you look it up, he says, if I had a heart attack, I'd want methylene blue in one pocket and aspirin in the other pocket. So I thought that was pretty interesting for the. For that type of emergency.

Well, it's really antiviral, antifungal. So when you think about that. Right. And if we couldn't get other medications or there were problems taken, you have an emergency pack. You know, you never know what happens in the world. And after what's happened the last few years, we never know if we're going to be able to get certain things and, you know, even. Even other things, Adderall shortages, things of that nature. So to have that on hand, it's stable, you can keep it, use it. And, you know, a lot of people have emergency, you know, storage or kits or whatnot. It's just good to have.

And it's been used for a long time with people with small doses of the methylene blue with vitamin C for urinary tract infections, both to treat it, but also for those people who have chronic UTIs. Taking the methylene blue with the vitamin C was used even before we started doing it to stop bladder infections in women, especially chronic ones. So you'll see people using it for UTI and then just keeping on it just to Prevent those chronic UTIs. So that's another amazing factor. I guess we keep all these things that we do with talking to you, so.

Mm. Yeah. And I understand the. Are you guys the only one, a company that's providing methylene blue in a tablet.

As far as. I don't know if Dan knows better. Just.

Yeah, I'm here. I had to turn on the lights so you could actually see me again. I kept getting darker and darker.

So, yes, as far as I know, we're the only ones that have it in.

Yes, we are.

People may want to ask, you know, it's methylene blue in a dry tablet form as effective as the ones that's in liquid form?

Yes, absolutely.

So you guys have done studies showing the exact effectiveness.

Effectiveness, right. I think, you know, there's some people need more of the oxygens they. Or more traumatic brain injuries. They use the one with the mineral oxide. But in most cases, the oral tablets seem to work as well. You know, this. Some people like to use, like you said yourself, some people like the combination of both, and that's what they do. So, you know, we just play. People play with it and they come up with their own combination of what makes them feel the best as you should, everybody should have sort of titrated to their own, you know, how they feel and how they do. So we have some people that do like you the methylene blue tablets in the morning and then take the, the mineral oxide one at night.

So and one thing that's that Dr. Warren brought up here just a little bit ago was, you know, just the health in the gut. Right. Excuse me. And so taking it actually, you know, orally and letting it dissolve in the gut has a lot of benefit as well along with taking it orally. As far as a tincture, you're still getting that absorption very quickly into the bloodstream. So it's a very small molecule. So it absorbs very quickly and very well.

And what is the dose recommendation?

Go ahead Dan, on that.

When it comes to it, the NeuroPro plus it's either one to two tablets, which is 15 milligrams to 30 milligrams on the brain fog, which is actually the mineral oxide with the vitamin C and also the methylene blue, that's 10 milligrams a dose. So everyone like Dr. Warner is saying find your sweet spot on our active daily health defense or ADHD, maximum brain support. Those have 2 1/2 milligrams of methylene blue, you know, per tablet. I personally like to take the, the maximum brain support, the ADHD, one or two of those along with one of the 1mL of the brain fog. That's kind of my what I do in the morning and then at night I take personally a NeuroPro plus at night. One of the things that you're going to notice and we get so many people coming back is sleep is much better. And at night that's when our brain does its data dump. Right from long to short term memory and neuro protection and healing. And so I like that it gives a little more oxygen to the brain. I sleep much better. We get reports of that all the time, people improving their REM sleep. So that's kind of my regiment. But as Dr. Warren said, ever needs to find kind of their sweet spot of what works best for them. And that's what's so neat about the products.

Yeah, but again the one thing you have to point out is more is not better. So there's a point like 30 milligrams a day that you start getting the side effects like gastritis and other things that they warn about. So we try to keep people less than 30, 40 milligrams a day because you start taking more and more, you can get problems. But Again, since it's solid, gets out of our system, it does not like an oil building up in our tissues. So if you can keep the dose below 30 a day, you should be just perfectly fine.

And the half life on it is six hours, around six hours. So it gets up fairly quickly.

Okay, that's good to know. Yeah. Are there anything else that about methylene blue that we haven't quite covered?

I think you covered most of it.

Okay. Yeah. And you guys are still developing new formulas. Okay. So you have one that's great for adhd, for focus with caffeine and L Theanine, of course. L Theanine calms, you know, tones down the. The activating effect from the caffeine, which is why green tea works so much better. It's not as, you know, kind of agitated as the. But can people. But you mentioned that people don't really get the tolerance effect because people can get tolerant with a caffeine. But you're not noticing that with the PhD formula. Okay. And the NeuroPro is great. I have a lot of patients that can really benefit from that just because the neural degenerative condition is so prevalent. And also a lot of people are concerned about their memory, about their cognition.

Right.

And I'm really glad to hear that you guys have seen some benefits in autism. I definitely would want to encourage, you know, some of our parents to give it a try.

Right.

Yeah. And. And then you have that one for bra, brain fog, the liquid one with the vitamin C and the mineral oxide, which is. You really super oxygenate the brain. And I know you guys are very much into brain health and that's one of your goals. Correct. That you really want to help the world that's dealing so much with mental health issues.

Correct.

Absolutely. And that's one of the things that we really try to do. And you'll notice this when you would look at our products. And I'll just talk a little bit about our product. And our product offering is like you said, we really, you know, believe in our product and that people need this. But the problem is you don't only need methylene blue. You need so many other things. You go into Dr. Warren's office and I'll tell you, you need your COQ10, you need your alpha lipoic acid, you need all these other things right along with that. And so many supplements, they charge so much money that you have to pick and choose. Well, we wanted to be a low cost provider of the highest quality. And that's so important for us to be able to take it on a regular basis, get the mitochondrial health that they need, but make it affordable for all. And that's one of the things we truly tried to do. And it's even hard for, you know, we have a lot of pharmacies and compounding pharmacies that buy directly from us because it's, our costs are so low rather than trying to make it themselves. And that's, we've done that on purpose just so that we can make sure that people get the health and wellness that they need. So that's an important mission of what we're doing. And that was also inspired a lot by Dr. Warren to ensure that, you know, people get the cognitive help that's so needed.

Yeah, I was very impressed by how low cost the product, the products are because so much of biohacking products are, you know, more expensive, so more available for people with means. But you guys are really making this very accessible to people who really need it. So I think it ranges between. What was the range of the products that four month supply for you guys?

Really? 25 to $50 is, you know, is the, the range.

Yeah.

So you know, 25 for the brain fog, $50 for the NeuroPro plus and you know, 30 for the ADHD. So very, you know, when you look at that in comparison to other things that are out there, super affordable.

Oh yeah. My friend was just telling me her adhd medications is $300 a month. So yeah, looking at, yeah.

Our biggest thing is as consumers sometimes look and it's hard as a consumer not to go, oh my gosh, it's too cheap, it must not be good. The answer is there's just not as much profit in it. And so our real if you'd like to pay more and donate, great, but you don't need to. So that's one of the things. Don't confuse the price with the quality and, and, and really the research behind it. It is really incredible as far as what, what it can do and how it can help people. So that's our mission.

We wanted to get to more people and make it from volume versus the amount per pill. So that's a big goal for me over the years of dealing with a lot of patients is a lot of times they can't take their medications because it's, you know, too expensive. And so I wanted something that didn't cost that much, get the highest quality but not gouge them. And you know, in which I just didn't like a lot of products out there. So it made me a Lot happier to keep it that range. And, and Dan and Darren are good at keeping that price point low so that we can get more people to use it and benefit from it.

Yeah, thank you for doing that. And I think you guys are also having your eyes on people from around the world, you know, not like just in wealthy nations like the US you want to, want it to be accessible to even developing worlds.

Absolutely right.

Thank you for doing that. Yeah, very admirable. Okay, so I think that wraps up our, our interview and I think it's a really a fantastic tool for people to look at enhancing their mitochondria health, which you, a lot of people are, you know, wondering how do I do? And then enhancing their brain, which are just, you know, is a concern for all of us. And with something so accessible and so easy to take, I, I love traveling with it, just, you know, go anywhere with it, even pop an extra one before podcast. And I've even heard of people, you know, taking it before meditation. That helps them to be, be able to focus better. So it's, it's really very versatile.

Good. We love it.

Yeah. So thank you again. And we're going to have a discount code for our audience so they can save some more money. And I really appreciate the good work you guys are doing and, and where can people find out more about this product?

They can contact you or, you know, as you go through and ask questions. But also at best365-labs.com there's more information and, and things, some of the different studies and, and we're posting some of those things for people to be able to review and look at.

Yeah, wonderful.

And we're old school, so I'm glad you're doing the, you know, the, the discount because really the, the real bottom line is the proof is in the pudding and as they say, as an old timer here, but it really does make a difference and when you try it, you'll notice it and be able to share. And that's, that's what we love, is hearing the stories. So we love to hear feedback. So reach out with questions or feedback. We love to hear it all.

Perfect.

Wonderful. People can post comments under the show and I love testimonials. So thank you guys and I really, really appreciate you providing such useful information to my audience.

We thank you for having us.