The Science Behind Digestive Enzyme Supplements | Matt Gallant (BiOptimizers)

Seed oils has become the big villain in the nutrition space, as you're well aware. Now, what's the problem with seed oil? Problem is something called maldialdehyde. You will find a lot of research showing that it is very toxic. However, here's the punchline. If you take Capex, you can break down maldialdehyde into fatty acids, which will help counter a lot of the negative consequences of seed oils.

Hello. Welcome Back to the Dr. Joy Kong podcast. Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Matt Gallant. Right. That's how you say your last name.

Yeah, I'm actually French Canadian, so it's Galant, but Galant in English.

Oh, okay. Yes. So Matt is a wonderful entrepreneur who started out with a degree in physical activity. Right. Science of physical activity. So you're a kidney kinesiologist.

Correct.

And then you co founded Bio Optimizer, which is a fantastic brand with so many products that I would love to know more about. Maybe tell us about why you even got into supplements.

Yeah, so when I was young, we got into bodybuilding, both Wade and I. One day I was at the beach, saw two guys that were big and jacked and I was 147 pounds. I felt puny and weak, so got obsessed with bodybuilding, started training 12 times a week. Started doing ketogenic diets. Cyclical ketogenic diet. This is over 30 years ago. Went from 147 to 235 in three years. No, no steroids, no drugs at that time.

Wow.

And yeah, there was some fat gain, but it was a lot of muscle gain. My legs were over 32 inches apiece. They were. They were massive. It was a little bit ridiculous, but quite a feat. Yeah, I've got good legs, good genetics in the legs. But, you know, if you're into bodybuilding, you know about supplements. And it was always, you know, how can we get 10, 20% more out of the training? Because you're training hard, you're trying to maximize your gains. And of course, there was a lot of garbage back then in the bodybuilding space, but sometimes you would find good supplements and protein came out. Not too. I mean, it was out before, but whey protein started coming out, which was a big innovation. There were some good supplements like creatine that came out. And, you know, when you try those supplements, you do get better results, and that was very motivating.

You saw much more muscle gain with the whey protein.

Yeah. I was at the university. We would do body fat testing every week. By the time I was using hydrolyzed amino acids, which we can go back into because hydrolyzed amino acids are pre digested amino acids. And we would measure, I would go like two weeks on, two weeks off and measure my body fat, measure my lean body mass. And there was significant improvements using hydrolyzed amino acids with my workouts. So that was the first clue that how powerful amino acids were. And we'll, we'll get more into that as we talk about enzymes, because that's literally what they're doing. They're taking amino acids, taking enzymes, basically breaking them down a little bit more so you absorb them faster and then you get better results and you can do the same thing with mass Times. Now got into kinesiology. I always knew I wanted to build companies in the health space. I loved helping people. I helped my best friend lose 191lbs in 18 months when I was 19. And just seeing that transformation, not just physically, but he literally went from being a virgin to being married in about two years, which was awesome. Yeah, just love helping people. Helped a lot of people lose a lot of weight. Loved working with pro athletes, worked with an NHL guy, worked with some guys in the fighting space. And just, just love transforming people, helping them live better lives.

Okay, so started with whey protein, hydrolyzed amino acids. And then. How did I know you and Wade Light Light Heart developed the first product, which is called Mass Dime, right?

Yeah, yeah, 2005.

How did you guys come up with that?

Yeah. So just to quickly share the story, how Wade and I met, we're both from the same town called Moncton, which is in eastern Canada, New Brunswick. His mom was training at the gym that I was a trainer at. So Wade came, visited, we struck up a friendship, and then I moved to Vancouver. We continued to build our friendship. And then Wade was winning National Natural Bodybuilding Championships as a vegetarian. And I was building all these online companies. Well, I think we could launch something. So we launched a natural bodybuilding manual. We were quite successful. And then we met a man named Dr. Michael O'. Brien. He taught us about enzymes, taught us about proteolytic probiotics and just gut health in general. So we did his protocol, which was around 500 bucks a month. We just hyper dosed enzymes, hyperdose all these things. And we were blown away by the results because it was more than just looking better. The vitality, the energy we felt was mind blowing. And that's when we said, well, we need to bring enzymes to the world. You know, enzymes are not new. They've been around for a Very long time. However, I feel like they're one of the most underrated supplements in general to take your health and your digestion to another level, primarily because it's not a hot topic. I mean, probiotics, for an example, became very trendy a few years ago. And then, you know, companies jump on that bandwagon and there's a lot of supplement companies that chase the trends. But we've always been about what works and what really helps people improve their health. So at that time, as I mentioned, protein was the hottest topic. If you would buy like a Fitness magazine, probably 50 pages of protein ads. And we realized that it wasn't about the protein. It is about amino acids. How do you get amino acids out of protein? You need proteolytic enzymes. And proteolytic enzymes are the enzymes that will take protein, cleave them, which means breaking them down into digestible amino acids, and is the amino acids that do all of the muscle repair, all the neurotransmitter formation, and all of the really important vital functions that we need to operate as a human being. Like how many proteins do we need to be at our best?

There's tremendous talk about protein. We need to eat enough protein. So the focus is very much on high protein intake, you know, like 1 gram per pound of body weight almost. Right. But you're saying that all these people eating all this protein, they may not be getting enough benefits because they're not getting the amino acids.

Yeah. Not only are they not getting enough benefits, but undigested protein can be very dangerous and toxic. I mean, you think about an allergy. What's an allergy? It's an undigested protein that your body sees as a threat, you know, ignites an immune response and tries to attack it. You know, leaky gut. What's leaky gut? You know, you're, you're, you've got these food particles, undigested food particles getting into your bloodstream that are creating again, potential, a lot of issues and problems and can measure that with zonulin, which I'm sure you're aware of, which, by the way, we just got some really cool data. We'll save microbiome breakthrough for a little bit later, but we just got some really good data from Dr. Gus Vickery on zonulin and some of his patients using that product. But yeah, it's all about amino acids. It's all about amino acids and peptides. I mean, obviously peptides, which you're well aware of, is a very hot topic. And again, you Got to break the protein into amino acids and then amino acids into peptides, and these peptides, you know, there's over 7,000 peptides that do all these amazing functions in the body. Of course, you can inject specific peptides to activate specific functions, but just in general, you. You really have to break your protein down. And in a book about longevity, we're talking about how protein accumulation in the cells is believed to be one of the causes of debt for super centenarians. And I know you have a longevity clinic. My goal is to live to 170. We'll see if we get there.

Nice.

But, you know, making sure that our cells are clean, that we are again, feeding it the right amount of the right things and we're not accumulating junk over time. Including undigested protein, I think is crucial.

Do you think that the population as a in general have a problem breaking down protein?

Yeah, especially usually in your mid-30s. We know that your digestive capabilities get weaker with age. Less hydrochloric acid production, which we can touch on, less enzyme production. And I think it's one of the reasons why the recommendation as people get older is you need more protein. They're saying you need more protein because they're breaking less and less of it down into usable amino acids. But we believe that by supplementing with enzymes, you can offset a lot of that extra protein requirement. And for people that are working out a lot, I think you need even more digestive health. You need more enzymes. I'm friends with a guy who used to be one of the top professional bodybuilders in the world. And we were having breakfast and I said, what's the toughest part of this? Is it the training? Is it the dieting? Said, no, it's eating all the food that I need to eat. And of course, he's been a user of our products for a very long time. And a lot of bodybuilders that eat a lot of food end up with a lot of digestive conditions because, you know, you have all this fermentation occurring when you have all of this undigested. They're eating so much food that it's almost impossible for them to break it all down without digestive supplements.

Wow. Okay, now we come back to the subject of the Mazdyme, your first digestive enzyme formula. Right. So you guys realize the importance of enzymes, but there's so many enzymes out there. How do you decide what enzymes you're going to target?

Yeah, we looked at. First of all, we were using enzymes. We looked at the market. And it was no one that had really focused on protein. Like the enzyme blends at the time were, I would say, well balanced, you know, amylase, lipase, some protease. But we wanted to build the strongest protein digesting enzyme blend that had ever been built. So we worked with some, you know, enzyme scientists. We said like we want to be number one, crank as much proteases as we can. We did. Course all the other enzymes are there as well, which interestingly we, we saw this in our lab. Amylase will actually, amylase is a CO factor for protein. So we can get into CO factors if you want later. But we built that and now we're at the 4.0 version of that. So we just rebuilt it from scratch. Took us about two years. We ran thousands of enzyme experiments. So we have a lab in Europe, in Sarajevo, in Bosnia, at a university. We have 20 full time students, master students and PhDs, and the person who runs the lab as a PhD in probiotics that run nonstop experiments. Every Tuesday we meet, we go over usually dozens of experiments in the past week and we basically do split testing. So we tested all these enzymes, these combinations of enzymes, and here's the mind blowing data. So in the lab there's this task called Infojax. It's considered the gold standard for laboratory or in vitro digestive simulation. So we took protein, we put it through it, we measured the amount of amino acids and peptides. Then we took the same amount of protein. We added mass times in, in 30 minutes we had 1200% more amino acids and peptides. 30 minutes, 1200% more Aminos and peptides with Mazda versus without. And yeah, it's, we tested all the other competitors and just nothing like mass times in terms of breaking down protein.

Wow. Okay, so the main goal is that to build mass, you know, to help people build mass or what. What is the goal of your, this mass dime?

No, it's to get the value out of your food. You know, people, let's get it, let's talk about nutrition because people talk about, you know, you got to eat organic, you got to eat nutrient dense food. Of course those things are valuable and they're, they're good. However, if you don't break down the food, if you don't absorb the food, and if you don't metabolize those, you know, molecules, whether it's fatty acids, amino acids or glycogen into building blocks or energy, you're not really getting the value. And I think enzymes really unlock the value. That's in the food. And there's a lot of ways you can use mass times. So one of them is using them during a fast. Now why would you do that? Well, when you take proteolytic enzymes on an empty stomach, they'll go into your bloodstream and they'll help clean house. So there's some really good research on. There's a great book called enzyme therapy. You read that book, they did a ton of experiments for an example, with karate athletes, with boxers and other, you know, martial art competitors that had injuries from contusions, the black eyes. And they were able to cut recovery time by about 50%. Some, some was even more, some injuries was a little less, but on average it was around 50%. So that shows you the power of, you know, they were taking quite a high dose. But if you take. I kept taking 50 to 100 capsules a day. I tore my Achilles tendon, had reconstructive surgery about four years ago and I was able to recover in about 60% of the time that it would normally take because I was taking a lot of mass times. Of course I took some peptides like BPC, TB500. But the mass times are incredible for speeding up recovery. Here's. Let's go back to my original example of hydrolyzed amino acids. Here's another way you can use it. If you mix your favorite protein shake, take three capsules of massims, blend it with it and then sip it while you're working out, you're going to get better gains. And again, that's been research. You're basically drinking pre digested or digested protein and you'll actually notice the flavor change as it the protein is converted into amino acid, which is interesting.

Does it not taste as good?

Well, it starts tasting like amino acids. Yeah.

Okay, interesting. So what happens when these enzymes get into your bloodstream? Because these are digestive enzymes, right?

Yes. There's a lot of theories around it. But again, proteases will break down amino acids. Like we know our bodies are always recycling proteins and amino acids. For an example, I was talking to a member in our team yesterday. We talking about RNA gene expression and yeah, like even rna, things like that, they're going to get recycled. And enzymes do everything from thinking to blinking. They do about 25,000 different functions in the human body. So we believe that taking proteases for an example, especially in a empty stomach, you'll absorb them and again they'll start assisting and aiding all kinds of conversions in the body, whether it's building new proteins, breaking down old proteins and things like that. So we're big fans of using mass times during a fast, as I mentioned earlier, for that reason.

Cause I hear people talk about digestive enzymes and systemic enzymes. So you're saying the two could be the same. That is absorbed, it becomes systemic enzyme?

Yeah, certain enzymes. I mean enzymes. A very deep world, you know. Serrapeptase, for an example, is a very well known kind of systemic enzyme. Helps break down scar tissue. But yeah, proteases in general are systemic. They will help. Anything that will help break protein down into amino acids will have systemic benefits.

Hmm. Okay. And the combination of enzymes you used in this particular. Are you, are you targeting various protic processes? Like what, how do you determine what to use?

Well, that's where the lab tests come in. Like thousands of lab tests where we test every single protease. Then we start testing combinations. And I think one of the most underrated things or under tested things in supplementation is combinations, synergy, co factors. And we find time and time again that when we combine the right molecules together, we can get 2 plus 2 equals 5 or 2 plus 2 equals 6 or 8 or 10. And that's what we found with the right combinations of enzymes. So when we start combining different proteases and what we do is we test the breakdown of gluten, which is a very difficult protein or dairy in whey. So we'll test, you know, all these different combinations against very, you know, popular proteins to see which one is the most effective. And then we ended up with the current formula we have now. But again, we never stopped testing.

Okay. So basically this MAS has this magical combination of enzymes that you can take all the time. So any time of the day, fasting, eating.

Yeah, we tend to recommend like three per meal on average. A lot of people will wake up. Take we for waking up and taking enzymes, I recommend actually Capex, which is a different enzyme blend that is more on the lipolytic side. So again, being a keto guy, you know, lipases are more important to help break down fats into fatty acids. And the way I built Capex was, well, we want to break down the fats into fatty acids. We want to transport the fatty acids into your bloodstream and then we want to transport them to your mitochondria. And then we want to rev up the mitochondria a little bit so that they utilize the fatty acids and give you more energy. So in other words, we want to increase the beta oxidation of those fatty acids so all the ingredients in there do that from the L carnitine for the Transport to the Coq 10 anal slim. There's a really good mixture and synergy in the ingredients. And here's what'll happen. If you take four or 5K packs in the morning, you'll get about six to eight hours of increased energy. There's no stimulants, no caffeine, there's no nothing. And the first time I got the prototypes, I think I took seven because I always like to, you know, let's, let's see what happens. Took seven and it was like 3am I usually go to bed at like midnight and I was not tired. So I'm like, okay, this really works. So make sure I get. You take them in the morning and anytime you eat a high fat meal, like one capsule of Capex is enough. And here's an interesting thing. I'm going to go into an interesting little story here. Seed oils has become the big villain in the nutrition space, as you're well aware. Now, what's the problem with seed oil? The problem is something called maldialdehyde. And if you Google maldialdehyde or mda, you will find a lot of research showing that it is very toxic. It's gene toxic, it's cytotoxic. However, first of all, we sent a bunch of seed oils to the lab. We tested maldialdehyde. Some seed oils basically have close to zero. So not all seed oils are evil. Very important to say.

So which ones are okay and such as side. Because everybody's villainizing. Yeah, seed oil. Which ones are okay?

Some are more toxic than others and some are, in our opinion, are not toxic at all and have a lot of health benefits. That's another show for another time. Okay.

All right.

However, here's, here's the punchline. If you take Capex, you can break down maldialdehyde into fatty acids, which will help counter a lot of the negative consequences of seed oils. So even things, and this a big belief Wade and I have, like, we don't believe in evil food. You know, we built Gluten Guardian for an example. If you want to go have a piece of bread or a pizza or whatever your favorite form of gluten is, you can take Gluten Guardian, which is a different enzyme blend that's built for breaking gluten down again into amino acids. Right. Gluten is a very big protein. It has this covering that makes it more difficult to break down. But there's certain enzymes that can do that, like DPP4. And as a fun Fact, Amazon is quite good at breaking gluten down as well. It's not quite as good as Gluten Guardian, but it's quite effective as well. So again we have different enzyme blends for different meals or different types of diets. We even have a, a vegetarian one called Vegzymes which the challenge for vegetarians, especially Wade, who eats like three pound salads, is breaking down the cellulose which is the cell walls of the plants. So we have cellulase and hemicell cellulase. So essentially we've built an enzyme blend for almost every type of meal and every type of diet.

So with the Capex increasing lipolytic actions, is that assisting with breaking down the fat in your body as well as, or just you know, the, the, you know, the lipids that's floating in your blood.

Theoretically it should increase beta oxidation. However, if you release the lipids into your bloodstream and you don't go, you don't burn it, you'll just reabsorb it. And that's, that's important to highlight, right? So you'll, you'll have more energy. But if you don't go and utilize that energy, your body will just reabsorb. And that's, that's just the realities of thermodynamics. Like if you have glycogen in your bloodstream or fatty acids in your bloodstream and you don't burn it, you'll store it.

Okay. Then it goes back to be deposited. So have you seen people getting really good weight loss results with addition of Capex?

Some people have reported that we haven't. Like that's not really what we built it for. We actually are working on a brown fat activator which we're doing some human testing on in Tampa in the next few weeks. Which that product, we had to tone it down because it was too strong. People would get the shivers. So we built it like with no cold exposure, just air conditioning was enough to trigger very hardcore shivering. And when you're shivering, you're burning a tremendous amount of calories and a tremendous amount of blood sugar. So we had to tone it down. So that product is really focused on, you know, fat loss or energy consumption. So I'm very excited to see what happens there.

Is it from just from herbs or is it from any, any other magical things?

It's a huge stack. We're using, we're using a little known form of, it's like a hyper form of L carnitine. And then we're using a whole Stack of research brown fat activators. And like I said, air conditioning is enough. You don't need to go in a cold plunge or nice, nice bath. Air conditioning is enough to trigger it.

That's fascinating. Yeah, some, some people would just save the money from cold plunge and just buy the brown fat activator.

In some ways it's more hardcore. I mean it lasted about, it lasts about three hours.

Very interesting. I can't wait to try that. When is that going to be on the market?

Well, I want to see the human data first. We're going to measure all kinds of things and if the data is good, we'll release it. We're big on science, that's why we have a huge lab. We've supplied them with a million dollars worth of equipment and now we're moving into more human testing, etc. So we're really big on science and making sure that our products work, our products do what they say, otherwise we won't release them. So that's where that product's at. We're still in the testing phase.

Okay, amazing. So the Capex, you developed it mostly for a ketogenic diet. Correct. Just to help people break down fat more effectively.

And the energy boost as well, a lot of people love it. Again, it's, it's an incredible product. Now here's another utility and here's one of the most underrated strategies for absorbing fat soluble molecules. If you look at the research for an example, with CBD you'll absorb 800% more CBD if you take it with a high fat meal. And that's true for almost every single fat soluble molecule. Like quercetin is not 800%. I think it was around 30%. Virtually every single fat soluble molecule will get 30 to 800% more absorption if you take it as a stack. So and just to share another data point, my vitamin D, the highest I had ever gotten to this was a lot of sun exposure and some vitamin D exposure. Consumption was 55. I started doing the fat stack strategy and then I tested again. I was 150. So I had to pull back my vitamin D dosage big time. So one of the best strategies, and I'll plug Capex into this in a second, is take all your fat soluble molecules in one shot. Your vitamin D, your vitamin k, your omega 3s, your nootropics, and then you add Capex. What's Capex going to do? Capex is going to help break the fats down into fatty acids which is going to help transport all of these molecules to the next level. So again, we haven't tested adding capex again in animals or humans to see if it improves it. But experientially it definitely works. You know, if you take nootropics with the fat stack with Capex versus without the. The experience is definitely another level. So we're huge fans of using capex with the fat stack or with high fat meals or on an empty stomach for energy. Hmm.

Wow. You know, there's so much education that needs to go into these products. Right. Cause there it does so much and so many interesting things and so much nuances. So glad I have a chance to to learn. So the K packs is great for ketogenic diet, increasing energy. And then the mass zymes of course help you to utilize protein better. And then you also have something called was a veggie veg.

Yeah. So if you're eating a big salad, eating a big salad, that's the go to.

Okay. So for somebody that's a vegetarian, obviously that's a really helpful thing. But you think that they should take mast zyme too because of the protein content in the.

It's not at the same dose, but there are the same kind of proteolytic blend in veg just at a lower dose. So most vegetarians don't eat as much protein as, you know, normal people. In general, it's tougher to get. And that's been Wade's secret to, you know, to his success. Because most vegetarians have an amino acid deficiency. One protein percentage or the protein intake tends to be suboptimal and then it's tougher to break down. And Wade was able to get by with 85 grams of plant based protein because he was using mass times and extracting the amino acids out of it.

Wow, okay, that's interesting.

So all, all that is the first piece of the digestive puzzle, like the enzyme piece. And in our opinion, there's two other critical pieces. Let's talk about hydrochloric acid quickly. So people mistakenly believe that the reason they have heartburn is too much acid. And if you get into the literature, the belief is that you get heartburn because you don't have enough acid. And then all this gas builds up, opens up the esophageal valve and then the acid splashes up into your esophagus and you get that heartburn experience. So a lot of people will use hydrochloric acid or HCl and a lot of their heartburn issues just go away. And that's why we built hcl breakthrough. And hydrochloric acid also helps kill parasites and fungus and all kinds of other things we don't really want in our bodies. So. And I know some medical practitioners will even prescribe hydrochloric acid for parasites and things like that. But I'm not a doctor. You are. So anyways. But hydrochloric acid is an incredibly powerful tool and for some people that's the missing key. So like in general, we recommend, okay, start with Mass times, see if that fixes your issue, and if it doesn't, can then add hydrochloric acid. But we're big believers in stacks. So our recommendation is like mass times three, mass times one hydrochloric acid and then two P3OMN. P3OM was one of the probiotics that Michael O' Brien introduced us to. He built it. It was essentially an L. Plantarum strain that they put in a hyper acidic environment. They kept 5% of it alive using frequencies and sine waves. And essentially those that 5% that survived evolved and mutated into a super strain. And they called it L Plantarum omn. It's patented. You can go read the patent. The patent expired, but the patent is filled with mind blowing information that I can't share legally. Well, but you can go read it for yourself. But here's some of the properties of P3LM1. It is one of only two strains we've ever tested in the lab. And like, we test like every commercially available strain we can get our hands on, we send it to the lab and we run it through a massive battery of experiments, from survival tests to proteolytic test. And P3OM is proteolytic, so it'll actually help break down protein like Mass times does. And we tested the synergy, the combination of mass times plus P3OM. And it's even more effective than either of them are by themselves. So you get even more amino acids. That's the first property.

So what's in the 3LM? Mostly probiotics.

It's a single strain.

Single strain. Okay.

L. Pantarum om. Now a comment on probiotics. Most probiotics I say most like almost all of them are transient, which means they go through your digestive system. They'll do what they do and they have health benefits, but then they're out. We'll get into colonizers in a minute. But P3 is a transient strain. It helps break down protein into break it down to amino acids. But here's one of the things that we knew, experientially, including myself, if you have food poisoning and you have basically E. Coli in your system, you take 10p3o, you might vomit one more time and. And then you take another 10 and it's over. Like that suggestion has never failed. And then we test it in the lab and we know now that it kills e. Coli. So P3OM will kill E. Coli. So if you have food poisoning, so it's a great product to bring with you when you travel. Wow. And take it with your meals to make sure you don't get belly, you know, Bali bellies or Mexican water bugs or whatever it is, wherever you are. But it's a very powerful tool. The other incredible property, so we have a half million dollar HPLC machine where we can measure the neurotransmitters that the probiotics produce. So probiotics actually produce neurotransmitters. And P3OM was the number one strain we've tested so far in terms of GABA production, and it peaks about eight hours later. So if you take P3OM with dinner for an example, it'll actually be producing GABA in your gut and help you sleep better. So, and we heard those reports many times, both mass times and P3OM. A lot of people say, well, I take it before going to bed and I sleep better. And it makes sense. I didn't know the GABA piece until maybe a year ago. I know, because I've been tracking sleep now for going on about 15 years, that if you eat before you go to bed, it'll disrupt your sleep, or if you have food in your digestive tract or digestive system, it will disrupt sleep significantly. So if you take enzymes, you can help break some of that food down. That's why my opinion, you'll sleep better. So again, P3LM is an incredible strain. And here's the last piece. As far as survivability, it is the Navy Seal of probiotics. So we do acid survival tests, we do salt survival tests, we do antibiotic survival tests. It is the number one strain we've tested in terms of being able to survive all of those difficult environments.

So it's just a very hardy bacteria, very interesting. And it actually kills E. Coli. So it goes into combat with E. Coli.

Yeah, we do these UFC matches in the lab. Different, different probiotics all the time, really. And yeah, we do. And interestingly, there's a lot of good strains that will kill each other. So, like right now we're reformulating a new product or we're upgrading one of our products, Microbiome Breakthrough, which we get into, and we want to add Bifidis, because bifidis has a lot of health benefits. But the bifidas are killing. Like the bifidas get along together, but now they're killing all these other types of probiotics. So it's, it's always complicated. It's very complicated. And I think that's one of the problems, why a lot of probiotics haven't lived up to the hype, because people just threw a mishmash of maybes in a bottle. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. And a lot of times, again, you're gonna have competing strains.

So this P3OM, has that been known? I mean, is, is it naturally occurring in the human microbiome or just something that's completely new that's introduced and found out to be beneficial?

Well, El Pantarum, again, it's a form, it's a variant of El Pantarum. I mean, El Pantarim, if you, if you Google, is El Pantarum research. It's one of the most researched and most effective forms of strains of probiotics. Now, the way it works in the probiotic world is you create these variants and these variants become patented strains. So I don't know how many variants of El Pantarum exists. It's probably hundreds. And then supplement companies or manufacturers will then commercialize and sell those. So L. Plantarum OM is the variant, and it's incredibly unique. I mean, we've tested a lot of L. Plantarums, and in terms of its ability to kill E. Coli, its proteolytic effects, its GABA producing effects, and its toughness, we haven't found anything that matches that.

Wow. So have you found people being helped with anxiety as far as increasing gaba?

Well, again, I have to be careful about those kind of claims, but unfortunately, anxiety is a medical condition.

Does it help people to be calmer?

Yeah. I mean, the magnesium magnesium breakthrough, which is our best selling product, is probably the best. And we have another product called Stress Guardian, which targets the HPA axis. That's another phenomenal formula for resilience and stress management.

Wow.

Now, last piece of the puzzle, and this is something that very few people are aware of. I mentioned transient strains they go through. And an interesting fact about probiotics is their doubling rate. So people get kind of swayed by how many. What's the count on the bottle? There's a billion, there's 10 billion. That doesn't really matter because, like with P3OM, they're doubling every 20 minutes. So if you do the math on that, it gets into tens of billions very quickly or, you know, even, even beyond that. So what happens is they start eating the food and they start doubling and doubling and doubling until they're out of food. And then your body just gets rid of it. Right. Well, let's talk about colonizers. You know, leaky gut's been a hot topic. I'm sure you're, you've heard of it. Maybe you test for zonulin in your clinic for an example, which is considered one of the best ways to measure leaky gut. And what is leaky gut? It is essentially holes in your intestinal tract. You know, there's holes in the junctions of your intestinal tract. And then food particles can get into your bloodstream and create all kinds of conditions, from allergic reactions to inflammation, et cetera, et cetera. Again, undigested protein is toxic in your bloodstream. So what's the answer? You want to seal your gut? How do you seal your gut? You need colonizers. Now, probiotics will only produce biofilm under two conditions. One, they're under attack. So when we test that in the lab, so we test biofilm formation, we can test that very easily. You can see the biofilm being formed and we used kind of this purple coloring and we can measure just based on the amount of purple, how much biofilm has been formed or not formed. And as I mentioned earlier, virtually every single strain does not produce biofilm, like zero or very little. However, when you create the optimal environment, meaning the food that it has, it'll produce biofilm. And microbiome breakthrough is by far the most powerful biofilm, healthy biofilm formation mix we've ever found or tested. Not just our products, but again, we always test for competitors product as well. And as I mentioned, I literally got the email this week from Dr. Gus Vickery, maybe you know him, I told him about the, again, the healthy biofilm formation. He said, well, let me test in my clinic to test it with 12 patients and with all of them, the zoning zonulin levels just get, again, I haven't seen the data yet. I'm going to meet with them probably next week. But he said all of them, zonulin levels dropped drastically. So that's, that's one of my favorite products. It also kills a different type of bad bacteria called gram negative bacteria. And like pneumonia for an example is a gram negative bacteria. Those are, are considered very difficult to kill. So E. Coli is gram Positive pneumonia is gram negative. And again, they're both very effective at killing different types of bad bacteria. So those two products will tend to fix people's digestion very quickly. And the good news with gut health is it's so dynamic. I mean probiotics have about a 48 hour lifespan. So literally every meal that you eat, every drink that you have is having some impact on your gut health. And within, I'd say 3, 4, 5, 6 days of consuming microbiome breakthrough or P3OM, almost everyone reports massive improvements, especially if they've got bad bacteria running havoc.

And these two can be taken together.

Yeah, yeah, we, you know, again, P3OM on an empty stomach is typically what we recommend. You could do masterminds and P3M empty stomach. And then Microbiome Breakthrough is a drink. And I recommend like 2 scoops and maybe 2 cups of water and you down Dean entire thing in one shot so that the gravitational pressure will push it into your intestinal tract. And as a, as a interesting fact, last year I did a lot of five day fasts. I think I did eight five day fasts last year. And what was happening when I was coming off the fast, even though I would eat fruits or drink bone broth, you know, I would have turbulence in the bathroom for two or three days. You know, as my. Because you know, when you fast for more than 48 hours, the gut lining starts to dry up. You're not feeding the probiotics anymore. Water, water does not feed your probiotics. They need food. Right. They need, depends what type of probiotics they'll eat. They'll prefer different foods. But when I started ending my fast with Microbiome Breakthrough, zero turbulence every single time. So that told me that I was. And it's a perfect time, you know, after a fast to repopulate your gut. And if you do it with Microbiome Breakthrough, in our opinion, you can really again colonize with very healthy strains with immune boosting strains. If you look at the literature on those strains, there's a lot of immune boosting research behind them, which again, I have to be careful about what I say there.

So all these probiotics, how often should you take it, like Microbiome Breakthrough, how often is it, is it going to be an ongoing basis?

Well, I would say anybody that's got gut issues and about 12% of the population ends up in the hospital because of gut related issues and around 40% have of the population has some level of gut problem. For those people like a 30 day, like, like a maybe two bottles over 30 days or 60 days to again fix things is a great, great suggestion. I mean, we recommend P3OM with every meal. Again, more for the food breakdown benefits. So we recommend three two, one, three mass ions. Two P3. Oh, I'm one hydrochloric acid. If you do that, you can almost eat absolutely anything. Not have bloating, no bloating, no gas. And you know, even if you go and kind of pig out, you maybe you need to increase the dose a little bit of the enzymes, but you'll have no bloating, no gas, which is awesome. And of course break down that food into usable components. But yeah, I think with Microbiome Breakthrough, I cycle on and off. I use it every time that I break a fast and I give it to my daughter. I have a two year, two year old daughter. I mix that with her milk. She's been drinking that now for, you know, almost since she was born. And the only time she was a little bit sick was for like a day and a half. So I think it's, it's helping her quite a bit on the immune side as well.

And you prefer people to take it on an empty stomach?

Yeah, you really want the, you want that blend to hit your intestinal tract. And that's why I recommend like 2 cups of water and just down the entire thing so that you can drive it in there.

By the way, I love the taste. That's one of the best tasting drink mixes. Yeah, I don't know how you guys did it that you could make it taste so good.

Yeah, it's another obsession of ours. Like we have a facility in Burlington, Iowa and we have an amazing flavorist. She's phenomenal. So like sometimes we have the formula build and it takes us twice as long or three times as long to get the flavor right. Sleep Breakthrough was one of those challenges or sort of sleep formula. So we, we did a ton of experimentation to get it to where we wanted. But yeah, there's some, there's some little tricks that we do with that product from the type of cacao and cocoa and the type of sweeteners that we use to get it to taste great. So yeah, it's an art and a science for sure.

Okay, so. So it sounds like you guys are just popping these pills all the time. Mazda Peel P3OEM hydrochloric acid. Okay.

We in our opinion, like those are our fundamentals. You know, just like magnesium is a fundamental, making sure that your digestion is hyper optimized at all times. With every meal to us just makes sense. And we think from a health span, lifespan perspective that making sure your body's constantly got amino acids, doesn't have these undigested proteins floating around is going to benefit us in the long haul. And you know, my biological age would, would agree with that. So last time I checked it was 31.

Oh wow. Congratulations. Yeah. So would you say when you break a fast every morning you would take both MAS and P3OM?

No, I would drink the microbiome breakthrough to break a fast. During the fast. I'm taking a lot of mass times I see to break the fast like before I start eating food. Microbiome breakthrough all the way. It's, it's been a game changer.

But if you're doing intermittent fasting like on a daily basis.

No intermittent fasting, you don't have that gut drying problem that happens. That's like a multi day fast. No, you don't need to do that. But again if you're fasting capex mass lines, you'll get more out of it, you'll feel the energy boost and then we start eating, take more mass lines for sure.

Okay. Yeah. Amazing. And then you guys also developed a product that helps with blood sugar. What can you tell us about a little bit about that one?

Yeah, so my mother in law has lost both feet due to diabetes. And yeah, it's been, we take care of her. So it's been, you know, a challenge. So like literally when that happened I freaked out and decided let's build a blood sugar product. Obviously it was too little too late unfortunately, but I wanted to build a product that would prevent other, you know, similar things from occurring. So we targeted like every potential pathway. And again this is a touchy subject legally, but if you look at blood sugar, there's insulin sensitivity, there is glucose transport which happens with glute 4 and several of the ingredients in that formula increase glut 4. So moving the glycogen into your muscles where you want it is critical. And then there's glucose disposal. So when you look at all of those mechanisms, and that's always our strategy when we build a product. Like we look at what are all the mechanisms of action involved in that thing. So for example, blood sugar support or management, you got again, insulin sensitivity, glucose transport, glucose disposal and how can we optimize every single part of that? And that's how we built that product. And one again anecdotal story that I can say is that my mother in law had to lower her insulin dosage because it was so effective. And before that, she got up one day, we had to call the hospital. This is like prior to Blood Sugar Breakthrough being built, because her blood sugar was 600, even on insulin. So they came in and they shot her with more insulin and got her back down to normal, but the insulin wasn't working as good as it should. And then we had to make a drastic adjustment to her insulin after she started taking Blood Sugar Breakthrough. And it's one of these products that does build up. So you're, you have to be mindful of that, especially with your clients. Like, it becomes more and more effective. It has an instant impact. So 20 minutes for a meal, you know, you can take it and you'll, you get a better blood sugar response from the food that you eat. But if you take it on a regular basis, it becomes more and more effective. Like a lot of the ingredients kind of accumulate and build up. So a cool hack for people that want to use it for working out. A lot of, a lot of our clients use it this way. You take two caps, let's say 30 minutes before you work out, and then drink carbs like you, you drink a pre workout anything with some carbs. The pumps you get during your workout are next level and you're again, your ability to break down the, the glycogen and into energy, go to another level. So a lot of people will say, yeah, I got more reps. My pump was insane. So again, for people that are not, let's say, concerned about diabetes or blood sugar problems, you can still use it for performance, for athletic performance, or for monster pumps in the gym.

Very interesting tip. You know, nowadays people are becoming very aware of the dangers of sugar and are trying to avoid it. And people, you know, some signs show that the spikes in sugar levels is what's the most damaging. So have you tested, I mean, with the prevalence of a glucose monitor these days, continuous glucose monitor, have you seen it blunting the blood sugar spikes?

Yeah, that's how we built it. So we built like several variations and then we, we had several people measured their blood sugar for several days and I think it dropped it around 20 points. And again, that was just a relatively short test. I think it was around 14 days of data. And we believe, because again, we know that a lot of the ingredients work better and better over time. And yeah, we're, we're going to rebuild it soon and make it even stronger. And then we want to do more human testing and get more hard data behind it. But yeah, it is quite effective.

So it could be a good idea to take it 20 minutes before you're going to have a high carb meal.

Yeah. And again, going back to what I said earlier, we want people to be able to enjoy whatever food they want to enjoy. Again, we. We don't advocate go to eat junk food, but if you want to go have an ice cream once in a while, well, take blood sugar Breakthrough and then take gluten guardian, which will help you break down the dairy protein. Dairy proteins are very similar to gluten. Right. They're very big proteins. They're tough to break down. But gluten guardian or mass times with the food and you're all set. You can enjoy all your favorite treats and not suffer any negative consequences, in our opinion.

Wow, that's amazing. I can see how somebody. I'm sure plenty of people do. Biohackers have a whole stack of bio optimizer products.

Yeah. And Wade and I too. You know, Wade and I like to have big feasts sometimes when we go, when we hang out. And it's fun to be able to go enjoy your favorite foods and not suffer because of them.

Yeah. So we're almost out of time. I know we were gonna talk a little bit about brain health, but I'm gonna bring Mr. Newt's.

Yeah.

Mark Ehinger. Yeah. Onto my show. So we're going to talk in depth about that. But even before you met him, were you guys looking a lot into brain health as well?

Yeah. So I hit bottom from five years of hardcore drug and alcohol addiction when I was 32, been 15 years that I haven't drank, which is great. And then even when I got sober, my brain just wasn't working that well. So like, and my grandmother had dementia. And one pattern that you'll notice in my stories is that we scratch our own itches. So when things happen to us in our lives, we're like, well, let's build a product to fix that.

That's when we know you have a real passion is going to give a real, really good product.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's still like that today. And that was no difference. So I started using lines main when I was 35. So that's like 12 years ago. Noticed a huge difference. Got into neural feedback about eight and a half years ago. We talked a little bit about that at Ways Party. So, yeah, I've been a huge believer in brain optimization. I've experienced just tremendous results. And the reality was we were. I was working on nootropic formulas. I was playing around. I was Using nootropics and met Mark, tried his stuff. I'm like, okay, I'm done. I'll never be as good as you are. And, you know, we partnered up and then launched Utopia. So, yeah, he's, he's, in my opinion, by far the best nootropic formulator on the planet. He's been at it for a long time, understands all the nuances of neurochemistry. And, you know, experientially, his products are the best. I mean, I, you know, I took brain flow. I took brain flow before our podcast. I took Apex this morning. You know, it's, it's incredible to be able to control your neurotransmitters or, you know, add more acetylcholine when you need it, add more dopamine, add more serotonin, add more gaba, whatever it is that you need. For every situation, we've got the answer. That's what, that's what you told me.

Okay, well, there are two products I want to ask you about. So one is called Cognibiotic. So that, is that a probiotics product?

It's a combination of probiotics that have clinical data in terms of neurotransmitter formation. So again, as I mentioned earlier, probiotics are like these little molecule factories. That's when people talk about the benefits of probiotics. It's not the probiotics, it's actually the molecules that produce, whether it's enzymes or vitamins or neurotransmitters. So the strains that are in there have a lot of good clinical research behind them in terms of different types of brain boosting benefits. And then there's a herb formula designed by our Chinese herb expert, Dr. Drew Pearson, that it's maybe, you know, the formula, I forget the Chinese name, but it's, it's been used for 2200 years in China for boosting mood. So it's kind of like a two prong approach where we wanted the herbs to have a more immediate impact and then the probiotics also produce a neurotransmitter impact. And again, it's one of these products. I have to be a little careful how I frame things, but it's, it is a powerful mood booster and a lot of people report those effects.

Okay, and the other one is the, the mushroom breakthrough, which is interesting. Yeah, tell us about that one.

Yeah, that's another Mr. Newt's formulation. So we were at a Dave Asprey event a few years ago. Say, bro, try this. Gives me. And it's Always fun hanging out with Mark because he's always got a new pill, a new potion, and usually you pop it first and ask questions later. So I drank it. I'm like, damn, this is delicious. And then like 30 minutes later, I felt like a really pleasant tingling in my brain. I'm like, bro, what's, what's going on? He says, yeah, it's, it's a hyper concentrated drink of lion's mane, chaga, reishi and cordyceps. And again, as I mentioned earlier, I've been a huge fan of lion's mane for a long time. It's like yeah, when we started using these really concentrated forms, like a 50 to 1 or 100 to 1, it started tasting like chocolate. So we just added some organic cacao and some organic cocoa and we got this drink. We added a little bit of collagen as well for flavor, texture and of course the collagen benefits. So yeah, it's been my go to drink since he gave me those samples. Like I've literally used it probably 99 plus percent of the time since before even it launched. And I just mix it with my coffee. A lot of people will drink it cold or drink it by themselves. I blend it with my coffee in the morning. And yeah, I love the energy boosting effects of the cordyceps, the neurogenesis, the BDNF from the lion's mane. And again, you don't feel jittery. The, the Reishi kind of grounds you. I'm a huge fan of reishi as well. So yeah, it's been one of my, probably the products I've used the most personally since it came out or even before. And then we have salted caramel, we have chocolate chai. So we just released chai as well. So if you're a chai fan, you can check that out. And fun fact, we, we made ice cream with it for Expo west and people lost it. We, we gave away 15 gallons of mushroom breakthrough ice cream in a day and a half. Like people were coming back, were bringing their friends so it tastes amazing and again, you can do all kinds of fun things with it.

Oh wow. I need the recipe for the ice cream. Sounds amazing.

It was literally just cream and mushroom breakthrough and an ice cream maker. That was it. And it was just incredible.

Wow. Wow. Talk about guilt free ice cream. Yeah. That's amazing. Thank you so much for bringing all these incredible things to the world. You know, using your, your knowledge and your just. You're also incredible. I know you are, you know, amazing entrepreneur that knows how to get the message out. So that's one of the roadblocks that people can have great products. You can't get the message out and then you're, you're staying small.

Yeah, no, I became passionate about marketing in my early 20s because of that I realized that you can have the best product in the world. But if you don't know how to bring it to the world and communicate the benefits and the features in the right way, no one will really know about it or buy it. So yeah, we're just getting started and warmed up about our next big product that's coming out soon. Well, we got two big products coming out soon. We've been, we've been cooking one of them. I know you're going to love collagen Breakthrough. It's not just collagen, but it's all the co factors and a bunch of other skin boosting ingredients. So the prototype name was the greatest skincare drink ever. We're going to go with Collagen breakthrough because collagen is better known but it's a hyper optimized formula to help generate elastin and collagen from the inside out. So that's coming out soon. We're really excited about that. And the other one is going to be electrolyte breakthrough. Again, hyper optimized electrolytes. There's so many things wrong with electrolytes today. Starting with the sodium potassium ratios which are inverted. Right. Potassium to sodium ratio should be 3 to 1, not 1 to 3 or 1 to 4 which is what you'll find in most electrolyte drinks. And but it's not just sodium potassium. It's a full spectrum mineral blend in all the right ratios. So again, no one's really done this. We've been working on it for a while. Tastes amazing. We're come out with a whole bunch of flavors. So that'll be coming out in the next few months and so exciting. Yeah, we're just getting warmed up.

That's fantastic. I've been looking for a good electrolyte product and I just, I'm not sure, you know, I'm not convinced. For example, I know you know, okay, the most popular one is element. Right. Everyone's talking about element. Everyone's drinking it. What are your thoughts?

Too much sodium. Again, there's, the ratios are inverted. I've given kudos on the flavor because again, most people and just it just takes two minutes of googling to find what I'm about to say. Who's sodium deficient in today's world. Like most people are consuming 5 to 10 grams of sodium a day, but almost everyone is not consuming enough potassium. Like, unless you're eating potatoes, plantain, bananas on a regular basis. Of course there's other foods with potassium, but if you're in a paleo diet or on a keto diet or carnivore diet, you're 100% potassium deficient. But even most people, the optimal dose is around three grams. They're not, they're not consuming that. And Google it for yourself. Google potassium, blood pressure and see what you find. And again, there's a lot of data showcasing that, you know, there's a lot of blood pressure problems that get resolved by just increasing potassium intake. And I know personally, my hydration levels transformed when I started taking more potassium, especially in the ketogenic diet. Because, you know, if potassium is really the molecule of hydration and if you're drinking a lot of water and you don't have enough potassium, it's just going right through you. You're not, you know, getting it into your cells. So I'm a big, big believer in potassium. And again, getting that ratio. And again we have a whole host, whole symphony of minerals because back to what I said earlier, co factors are a huge deal, you know, very big deal. So when you start taking the right combination of things, you get so much more results out of it. And that's what we're focused on.

Gosh, I'm so glad that you guys are doing the homework that you get all this figured out. That's why I'm excited when you're about to come up with a product because I know how much thought and experiments and, you know, just, you know, all these research that's going into your product so makes me feel really good to be taking a product I know that has gone through rigorous testing.

Yeah, credit goes to the science team, to the lab team. They're, they're brilliant. And by the way, another exciting news we have created and it's in the patent process, our first molecule ever. It's a new form of magnesium that should cross the blood brain barrier. It, it so far in our test, it outperforms every form we've used, including L3 and 8, which we don't use. And our goal is to become, you know, to kick L3 and aids butt. So we think we're going to do it. And yeah, you'll be hearing about it hopefully by year end. And we're super excited about that. It's, it's been something that we've been dreaming of for a long time. And Our super genius PhD chemists like this guy has never been stumped in, you know, probably 50 to 100 hours of calls. If I say, how do you do this? Why does this happen every single time? He just knows the answer off the top of his head. And now we're getting into the molecule creation game, which we're really excited about. So stay tuned.

And that's the one you're going to put into the magnesium breakthrough, right? Is you're going to update the magnesium breakthrough.

Well, we have an updated form coming out soon. We're going from seven forms to 10. That form is not going to be in it. We'll probably do a single form and more kind of a brain mag or a brain focused mag one to really compete with L3 and 8. But yeah, we're blowing, we're going, we, we're going to blow away. We've blown away our mag breakthrough. So again, 5.0 is coming soon. We should be releasing it probably in about four months, maybe five. So as I said, there's, there's all kinds of stuff. And yeah, the, the vision, like I'm, as an entrepreneur, I'm done with everything else. I'm completely devoted to this journey to make, you know, superhuman health affordable, attainable, accessible to everyone on earth. It's going to take because you want.

To live to 170, of course, that's the best place to put your time. Of course, of course.

So again, scratching my own itch. Right, so. And yeah, it's all about people like you educating people, bringing out the message like no one person or company can do it alone. So it is definitely a team sport. We need to educate people, have the best services like your clinic does supplements. Like we're all playing our role in the same mission that we're, I think we're all on.

That's another thing. Your company, the services is amazing and you have a no question asked money back guarantee. Right. It's amazing.

One year guarantee at 365 there. By the way, our refund rate is less than half a percent, which I think that the average in e Commerce is like 16%. So. And you know, when somebody wants their money back, of course, no questions asked. And a lot of times we'll say, well, you want to try this for free? Do you want to try that for free? That didn't work. So we're always trying to make sure people are satisfied one way or another. And we know that not every product is going to fix every single person's situation or goals, but when it, when it doesn't, we give them their money back. Some questions asked.

And your company also is so kind to offer my listeners a. A coupon code.

Yeah.

Dr. Jo to Joy. Yeah, so people can get 10% off their purchase. And there's so many to choose from. I'm excited to pop more of these pills to maximize my nutrition and, and just rejuvenation of, of my entire system. Yeah, right.

And I'll say, like I know we. By the way, this podcast is the best podcast I've ever done to cover the entire gamut of Bioptimizer products. So thank you. Usually we go kind of really deep into one thing, so definitely covered the majority of them. For people that go to the site again, bobtomizers.com forward/joykong, you can use Dr. Joy to get 10% off. Where do you start? I would recommend starting with Magnesium Breakthrough and Mass Times. Those two again, those are our best two sellers, Mass Times.

So tell people a little about why Magnesium Breakthrough is going to be so important.

First of all, magnesium, as you know, is involved in hundreds of biological functions. And when you start stacking magnesium, so magnesiums are bonded to different amino acids or different acids, and those acids and amino acids will, will tend to go into different systems and tend to do different things. And we tested in the lab, we do these red blood cell absorption tests where we can see how much magnesium gets into the cell. And we tested all the single forms and then we tested Magnesium Breakthrough and Mag Breakthrough. Absorbed was absorbed 33% more than the second best single form. So essentially, you're absorbing more magnesium and, you know, people feel it more, they feel less stressed or they sleep better. And that product has been a grand slam for us. Like, it just, you know, we're number five on Amazon. We'll probably be number one in next 12 months because people love it. My parents love it. It's just one of those products that changes lives, whether it's sleep or stress.

So I know a lot of people just use magnesium glycinate, right? That's a bioavailable form. Is that form in your product?

It is, it is. And I'd say as far as, what's.

The reason that you have so many forms?

Synergy. Again, as I, as I mentioned, it's Mag breakthrough is 33% better than glycinate, than bisglycinate in terms of getting the magnesium in the cells. So we tested that. Magnesium Bliss Glycinate was the best single form that we tested. And then again, we were. We found more forms that are better than glycinate. So we're really excited to add those to Magnesium breakthrough. Magnesium Breakthrough 5.0 coming out soon. Stay tuned.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay, so people want to start somewhere. Get the magnesium.

Yeah, get magnesium.

Biological functions and the mas.

Yeah, that's those two. Sleep Breakthrough is one of our most popular products. That product, if you again, gonna really optimize your sleep, HCL Breakthrough is phenomenal. So I'd say, like those four products, Mass Times, Magnesium Breakthrough, HCL Breakthrough, and yeah, sleep. You know, Sleep Breakthrough. So those. Those four are phenomenal. I mean, Mushroom Breakthrough as well. But again, we as. That's our favorite, so.

Right. Yeah.

Whatever you're budgeting for, but try them all out, and if it doesn't work, you get your money back.

Right? Yeah. Those would be the gateway supplements. As you get optimized, you want to get optimized more. So it's a. It's a good way to go. Yeah. This is fantastic. Okay, so last thing I want to ask you, you know, you. You've been building supplements and being the health space, you want to live to 170. If it's one advice, there's one advice you can give listeners, you know, like you want to offer. What would you want them to know?

Clean your limbic system. You know, one of my favorite books is the Body Keeps the Score and think one of the things that's improved the quality of my life the most. And again, we're not in that business, at least not yet is the business or the world of processing, trauma processing all of these bad events that have occurred in your life. And there's a lot of ways to do that, whether it's neurofeedback, emdr, psychedelics, eft. I'm a certified EFT practitioner. I use it quite a bit. I'm a huge fan of it. It's very effective. But systematically going through, like, all the things that have ever hurt you in your life and removing them and reframing them, not intellectually, but you're removing those negative sensations that hurt you, and then you're able to think about those things in a positive light. Right. And then your reactivity goes near zero. Like, my reactivity at this point in my life is near zero. Okay. There's still some things, once in a blue moon, that might trigger me a little bit. And then as soon as that happens, I'm like, okay, there's something else I need to work on. Let me find what that is. But that's the power of it. And your EQ will change, your relationships will transform. So I think your emotional health is one of the most important parts of being a human being. Of course, the physical side matters a great deal, but if you're not emotionally healthy, we know it will have dire consequences on your physical health over time. Chronically elevated cortisol, chronically elevated stress hormones will wreak havoc in so many ways from destroying your hypothalamus, destroying your short term memory, creating DNA damage and potentially even cancer. I mean, there's a lot of belief around the psychosomatic impact of negative emotions and rage on all kinds of diseases. So I think a lot of that stuff is not very well researched yet. But no matter, doesn't matter. The quality of your life today will improve as soon as you do that. So.

And how was your emotional reactivity when you were in your 20s?

I was a savage. I was a savage in so many ways. So, yeah, it's been, it's been a long, a long journey, a fruitful journey. And yeah, I was a different.

That gives people hope.

Very different human being than I am today, that's for sure.

Wow. Thank you so much. Thank you for that. Yeah, what a great interview. And again, I'm excited for everybody to be able to try these products and improve their lives. Matt, thank you for the great work that you have done and you have brought to the world.

Yeah, thank you. And I'm sure I'll see you at another one of Wei's parties sooner and later.

Yes. Some of the best parties. Thank you, thank you.