The Truth About Ozone | Dr. Robert Rowen on THE DR. JOY KONG PODCAST

My podcast many esteemed scientists, doctors and thought leaders to really bring you information so you can enhance your wellness. Today I have with me Dr. Robert Rowan.

People are dying of untreatable antibiotic resistant infections and medicine won't even consider anything outside the box. Well, I consider ozone powerfully anti aging and people tell me that my skin looks pretty good. Well, that's not for me to decide. It's up to them. And I created ozone and a really high quality diet with that.

Hello, welcome Back to the Dr. Joy Kong podcast. As you know, I bring to my podcast many esteemed scientists, doctors and thought leaders to really bring you information so you can empower yourself in the understanding of what you can do to optimize your health and to enhance your wellness both physically and emotionally and spiritually. So today I have with me Dr. Robert Rowan. Dr. Rowan, thank you so much for being here.

It's my honor. Thank you.

Yes. So Let me introduce Dr. Rowan a little bit so you understand his experiences and expertise. So he is a graduate of Johns Hopkins University and UC San Francisco, which is one of the the top medical schools in the country. He acquired double board certification in family medicine and emergency medicine and he's also trained in clinical metal toxicology. He's known as the father of medical freedom for pioneering the nation's first statutory protection for alternative medicine in 1990. We've come a long way when it comes to alternative medicine. We don't even use that term anymore, so that's encouraging. And then two years later, Alaska's Governor Hickel appointed him to a term on the Alaska State Medical Board. And the appointment survived a legislative battle sponsored by Organized Medicine due to overwhelming public support. So congratulations, Dr. Rowan. Dr. Rowan is also internationally known for his clinical practice and teachings in oxidative medicine. He was the Oxidation Workshop chairman for ACAM and teaches oxidation to professionals in Hand on Sessions quarterly in his office. And in October 2014, he traveled to Sierra Leone to bring ozone therapy to the Ebola epidemic. He reported on a hundred percent recovery of Ebola in four patients, now found to be five patients. We can talk about this in our podcast. And he has repeatedly published on oxidation therapy in peer reviewed journals and recently was the lead author together with Dr. Howard Robbins on the rationale for using ozone therap for Covid. So we've got a lot going there. So, Dr. Rowan, maybe you can tell us a little bit about what oxidative therapy is.

Thank you. Oxidation therapy is a family of therapies. I would say ozone is the most broadly Known and is at the top. And ozone was done long ago in Europe, beginning in Germany. The Americans used a different form of oxidation therapy for many years called ultraviolet blood irradiation therapy. And that was pioneered by American Emmett Knott. And lots and lots of articles were published on curing intractable untreatable infections in the 1940s and even into the 1950s. The work on that started in the 1930s. In that therapy, Knott would take out maybe 200ccs of blood, expose it to a very high intensity ultraviolet C generating light source, and then return that treated blood. And the results were so stunning, American authors took pains to describe the miraculous, literally miraculous recoveries of people from totally hopeless and untreatable diseases which is going on today. When I say going on today, people are dying of untreatable antibiotic resistant infections. And medicine won't even consider anything outside the box.

So they were using UV light to shine on the blood of patients and healing them that way. So that's a form of oxidation.

That's a form of oxidation. Oxidation literally means pulling an electron. That's what oxidation is, pulling off an electron. That's what oxygen does. It sucks electrons. Reduction is putting in electrons. So like, let's look at the difference between a cancer cell and a normal cell. Cancer cells don't use oxygen very well. That's well known. So they are loaded with electrons. They're in a state of what we call redosis. They're loaded with electrons. And your normal cell, your muscle cell that's working is burning oxygen and that oxygen is hauling away electrons. So it's going to be more electron poor. And we want that because with oxygen working properly, you make energy, you make ATP. And that's what your body, that's the energy source that your body needs to run with. And if your mitochondria are not working, for instance, after a COVID vaccine or maybe long haul Covid, your body is not utilizing that oxygen to make energy. And you get sluggish, you get brain fog, all kinds of bad things happen. So that's the difference between oxidation and reduction. Cancer is a state of reduction. Normal health is a state of oxygen utilization and it's a state of being oxidized. Ozone oxidizes ultraviolet. Blood irradiation kicks electrons off. So that's considered oxidation. Hydrogen peroxide therapy is oxidation. You can give hydrogen peroxide intravenously. There's advantages and disadvantages to all these which we can discuss. And then there's another form which most people will not register with because they think it's an antioxidant, and it's high dose intravenous vitamin C. Everybody thinks of intravenous vitamin C as an antioxidant. Yes, in low doses, I guess it is. But a team at the nih, I think it was run by Mark Levine, found that vitamin C works in high doses, which you can only get intravenously by a totally different mechanism. It's a pro drug for the creation of hydrogen peroxide in your tissues. So when you take an IV say, of 25 grams of hydrogen peroxide, you're increasing the production in your tissues of hydrogen peroxide, which is probably what's doing the work.

Wow.

All of these are related. Similar mechanisms, similar biochemical pathways. There's yet another one which may make big news in the coming months or years, and that is something called hypochlorous acid HOCl. It's similar to bleach. Bleach is Na, Sodium, OCl, Sodium hypochlorite.

I think I heard about that in the beginning of COVID because that's a very easy to make solution. You can do it at home and it's highly effective against all these microbes.

That's correct. And Trump got into trouble because he was right when he talked about bleach being effective for this. But he didn't really get the education he needed, so the press jumped all over him on this. But he was absolutely right. Covid could have been treated for less than pennies. That's how easy it is. Most. Most viruses could be treated that way as well. And I think we pretty well prove that with the most lethal disease the world has ever known.

Hmm.

I know what that is. What's the most lethal disease the world has ever known?

The most lethal?

Ebola.

Oh, okay. All right.

Ebola had a 60% death rate in Sierra Leone under the best of medical treatment. In other words, if you got infected with Ebola, there were probably a few people who cleared the disease without getting sick, but not many. If you started showing symptoms, your risk of death was 60%. And I looked at the biochemistry and structure of the virus, and I thought, hey, this is an ideal candidate for ozone, and maybe we can get ozone put on the world medical map. This is done right. And I had been introduced to a doctor in Sierra Leone who knew the president. And we got a formal invitation from the president to come and bring ozone. And we got a lot of donations. And we were donated ozone equipment by a Canadian company which has since gone under, and we took it over to Sierra Leone. And I. We were teaching Doctors how to do this. And I knew it would work very well. I recruited Howard Robbins with me and he is famed for his technique in div, direct intravenous gas, which is probably the most cost effective form of ozone. It's got issues. All forms have issues.

So injected the gas, which is a mixture of oxygen and ozone, directly into people's bloodstream. Correct.

We injected the gas directly into the bloodstream, yes. And in the case of Ebola, well, we got, in the middle of training doctors, pharma, got to the government of Sierra Leone and through the World Health Organization warned the government that if they allowed the ozone project to continue, they would totally pull out of Sierra Leone and Africa. So we were essentially kicked out. Farming knew about it and they knew if we were successful, we probably would have destroyed pharma in Africa.

So this is a perfect example of the real opposition that's exists.

This is a perfect example, I lived through it, of not only the opposition of evil, pure evil, because that their action probably allowed another thousand people to die before the epidemic was over. By the time I was there, there were 10,000 deaths or so and the epidemic continued. We managed to get to five people with Ebola after I was kicked out.

Wow. How many sessions did you have to treat these patients?

They were treated, I believe, four times a day with Robin's DIV method. And all of them recovered very quickly. Like with Ebola, you're going like this and then you get some symptoms and then you just drop, you're gone. How long is this going to bring you? The symptoms might not start for two days, we'll say, and maybe longer. Might be a seven day incubation period, but once you start getting symptoms, you're at the precipice and then you just crash within days.

These people, were they at a symptom stage or were they very sick already?

They were at this, I believe they were at the symptom stage.

Okay.

In fact, the last one, the fifth one that you mentioned, at first I was told she was not at the symptom stage. A year and a half later, I got a message texted to me from Sierra Leone. A handwritten letter from her thanking God for ozone because she was symptomatic at the time, her consortium was Sierra Leone's chief physician. He got to her. He died the night before of Ebola. She begged him to get ozone. He was a stodgy English trained physician who believed in Western medicine. He refused. He waited for ZMAP to come in from Switzerland and while he was thawing out he died. She then had armed guards at her door and putting her in quarantine. She did not tell anybody she had symptoms because if she did, they'd have thrown her in the tank, in the isolation tank, and she would have had a 60% probability of dying horribly because it's a horrible death. And she didn't tell anybody she was under armed guard and she climbed a razor wire fence in her backyard to evade the guards to get to our people and got ozone and did very well.

Wow. Brave and smart woman.

Hopefully we're going to have a documentary made about this and feature that case.

Wow.

It's in the works. So how does ozone work? And Ebola is a. Is a good disease to talk about in terms of the effectiveness of ozone. Ebola kills by depriving your blood of oxygen. It causes inflammation, massive inflammation. And where there's inflammation, there's cellular destruction. So there's bleeding, hemorrhaging, and that's why it's called hemorrhagic fever. It induces what's called a cytokine storm. In other words, your body is pulling out everything to machine gun everything in sight. And in the process of machine gunning the virus, you get holes blown in you, too. And your blood vessels leak, hemorrhage, and your organs fail. Well, what does ozone do? Ozone has several mechanisms by which it enhances oxygen. Number one, it increases 2,3 DGP in the red blood cell. That enables hemoglobin to release its oxygen payload. So let's pretend this is a red blood cell and you're going along and it moves past the capillary and it doesn't release its oxygen. What good is it? It's no good. The train passed by and it didn't unload its cargo. Ozone helps it unload its cargo. Ozone also increases the flexibility of the red blood cell to get through the capillary. Red cell diameter is actually larger than the diameter of a capillary. So let's say that's the diameter of a capillary. Your red cell's bigger. It has to fold and flex to get through. Ozone helps that too, so you get better blood flow. Ozone increases the negative charge on red blood cells, so they repel each other. You don't want them sticking together. You want one cell at a time to move through instead of crowding up. Ozone has been shown to increase mitochondrial oxygen combustion. That translates to ATP. How do we know that? Because let's say this is your arterial oxygen level and this is your venous oxygen level. With ozone therapy, that Goes up, your arterial oxygen goes up and your venous goes down. Notice the difference? It increased. The difference is the amount of oxygen that left and got burned.

Wow.

Meaning more energy. So three wonderful ways you're getting more oxygen, which is going to help anything. We get oxygen combustion in our body. We have energy being made. All of our cell defenses for bacterial arise from oxygen metabolism. What else does it do? Well, it improves cytokines. Bacci and Menendez from Italy and Cuba respectively have shown that ozone therapy modulates cytokines and interferons. And cytokines are pro inflammatory or anti inflammatory. And Sylvia Menendez showed that ozone therapy in animals reduces something called tumor necrosis factor alpha, a really hot pro inflammatory cytokine. And that's going to be highly involved with diseases like Ebola and Covid, because Covid also induces a cytokine storm. So that's part of the cytokine storm process. Ozone brings down these inflammatory cytokines. It balances. In other words, if your immune system is like this, it goes like this. If it's like this, it brings it back into balance. Bache called ozone the ideal cytokine inducer. So that's yet another way ozone works. Another way ozone works is it is an oxidant. What does our body do to fight infection? It generates oxidants. And we were talking about hypochlorous acid a moment ago. Our neutrophils, white blood cells, generate hocl, hypochlorous acid and they throw it at pathogens. Well, it's an oxidant. HOCL is very similar to ozone. The mechanism of action is basically identical. These are germicides, they're not antibiotics. Bacteria can get resistant to antibiotics. And right now we are facing a crisis in worldwide medicine with antibiotic resistance. And it's getting worse by the day. It's literally a crisis. When penicillin first came out, it only took the bacteria a few months or years to learn to get resistant to it. And we come out with new antibiotics. And these bacteria are getting very intelligent, highly evolved, and they're getting resistant. They don't get resistant to germicides, which just kill. Antibiotics don't work that way. If bugs could get resistant to germicides, we would not be here. They've had 4 billion years of life on the planet to get resistant to germicides. It hasn't happened. They've had 4 billion years to get resistant to ultraviolet from the sun. It hasn't happened or we wouldn't be here. So we're dealing with an ideal treatment. Ozone also induces. And I know people are terrified. When I first saw ozone at a meeting, it was an ACAM meeting. I saw it in an exhibit hall and I said ozone? Are we supposed to be afraid of pro oxidants? Well, I mean this was the time everybody was into antioxidants. They didn't know better. This is an evolving science. And they didn't know what they had. They gave me some literature, I took it back to my hotel room. And I'm not a morning person, I think you know that. And I got up at 7:30 in the morning to get to the exhibit hall 30 minutes before it opened to get that machine. I was just so blown away by the biochemistry of what it was doing. And that was 1986. I took the machine back to Alaska where I was living. And after the first ozone treatment, I became an oxygen doctor.

Oh wow.

Oxidation or oxygen doctor? We were just blown away by what it did for just about everything. And it's been most of my life ever since. Ozone also induces antioxidant enzymes. Superoxide dismutase, catalase, glutathione peroxidase. So these enzymes come up. When you take a pro oxidant. You're going to say, well, why it's a pro oxidant? Well, how do you build muscle? You build muscle by pumping iron by exercising the muscles. So ozone is a controlled exercise for the body. By inducing a backfire, A pro oxidant controlled. Your antioxidant defense systems light up and come on. And one of my favorite things about ozone and one reason why I do it, I think it's an ideal anti aging therapy. It induces sod, superoxide dismutase. And a key enzyme is sensitive to that. That key enzyme is telomerase. And we all know that as your telomeres, the end caps of DNA shorten. The life of that cell shortens along with it. Now we don't want everlasting telomerase. That's an immortal cell, like cancer. But what we're doing here is we're slowing down or we're repairing faster than what desired shortening of the telomere. So I consider ozone powerfully anti aging. And people tell me that my skin looks pretty good. Well, that's not for me to decide. It's up to them. And I created ozone and a really high quality diet with that.

So, well, there are a lot of people who are into ozonated water. So do you think that would be a really good Way to get ozone in the body.

It's better than nothing. Okay. I would. I was. I was shocked. Several years ago, this was about five years after my venture to Sierra Leone, I went back to Africa. I had an African man come to me from guinea for prostate injections for his prostate. And he told me about his wife, who was a Polish nurse living with him in Africa. Now he got better. His prostate went. He got. Went from six urinations a night to two in just two weeks by injecting his prostate with ozone.

So this is just prostate enlargement. Is it bph? Okay. Wow. Because that's a challenging condition that the traditional medical system really doesn't have a whole lot to offer.

It doesn't have a lot. We teach this in our workshops, we have seminars, and we teach doctors how to do this. And it, by and large, it works. Nothing's 100%. We've had some failures. But urination, nighttime urination in men gets better, by and large. So he got about 70% better in two weeks, doing them twice a week. I then went to guinea to visit his wife. And she was treating people with ozone water, ear ozone and rectal ozone. That's what she was doing and seeing. Phenomenal. I mean, I had to go to see this and I did. It's dirt poor country. Really, really poor. Intermittent electricity. And when the electricity was running, she'd make ozone. She ozone water, put it in the freezer, let a cap of ice get on top to hold it in and refrigerated for the rest of the day, and it would stay good. And she gave her patients erozone, rectal ozone. I taught her how to do her husband's prostate, and she did that. And so ozone in any form is going to work. Some forms, I believe, are better than others. Sylvia Menendez in Cuba mostly relied on rectal ozone. Ozone gas in the rectum. Women have an advantage. Women can take it vaginally as well. It works especially for local female conditions. You probably can get a lot better. A lot more ozone in the rectum, though, than in the vagina. And Howard Robbins, he did div. Direct intravenous gas, where you inject a bolus of ozone gas. And that's what I taught her how to do as well. Into the vein. It's dirt.

It's a little controversial among the medical professionals. Some say definitely don't do it. What's your opinion on this?

I tend not to do a lot of it because of vein issues. Ozone can scar veins and make them disappear, just like intravenous hydrogen peroxide. Just like high doses of vitamin C, ascorbic acid that will also scar veins and make them go away by the same mechanism. In the case of gas, ozone gas. It's not air you're putting in. It's oxygen. Oxygen is rapidly metabolized and taken up by the blood giving gas can cause a little bit of chest tightness and a cough. And some people are really concerned about that. You know, I've had DI V ozone. And yes, it's caused a little bit of chest knife tightness and a cough that lasts 10 or 15 minutes sometimes. I don't think that is worth the fear. But there's a big political bruja about this where some ozone societies are saying, no, you can't do this. It's wildly dangerous. And they black blackball you. In fact, we quit one ozone society because it demanded that its members sign a pledge not to do it. And I'm not going to sign a pledge not to act in the best interest of my patient. You know, if I think that div Is in the best interest of my patient, it's something I'm going to want.

In what cases do you think it will be a better form than taking the blood out, mixing with the ozone, you know, oxygen mixture, and then give it back to the patient?

Actually, I like the major autohemotherapy. And I do hyperbaric ozone. I like that the best. We take blood out into a bottle. Let's say this is the bottle. Blood goes up, ozone gets pumped into this under pressure. Under pressure, it gets shaken up, and then the blood goes back down.

Mm.

That's called hyperbaric ozone. That's my favorite. Okay. The standard blood therapy is MAH Major autohemotherapy. Right. Where they take blood out in a plastic bag. Here's a little jar of glue. It's plastic. And they shake it back and forth like this. And then it drips back in under gravity. I don't like that. I never did it. Gave me the heebie jeebies. Putting ozone and blood into plastic bags. Big heebie jeebies. I never did it. I always use glass bottles. And I think anybody doing it shouldn't be doing it. That's my personal opinion.

There are some practitioners believe that direct ozone injection actually give you extra benefits compared to mixing it with blood first.

Of course. And I teach that. Okay, it does.

It happens when you just give the. The bolas of. Of gas into the blood versus mixing with the blood first.

The downside, I told you, is scarring veins and the chest pressure, it's. If you do it right, it's not a major issue. My wife and I decided early on that we were not going to use the concentrations that Howard was using. He was using 55 micrograms per cc initially, and I think he's down to 40 now, largely because of vein issues. Our maximum is 30. I don't like to go above 30 because saving veins is important to me. The chest pressure, that just goes away because the gas is absorbed. Now you're asking me, why might it be better? Because European research years ago showed that intravenous oxygen gas was highly therapeutic. Highly therapeutic. So just the gas itself, even without ozone, if it's oxygen, you're going to get a positive therapeutic effect. Throw in a little bit of ozone, and you're going to get more of a therapeutic effect. Intravenous oxygen gas has been shown to reduce inflammatory enzymes. One is called 15LOX1, 15Lipoxygenase1. Another is an enzyme associated with atherosclerotic heart disease. It gets reduced as well, these treatments. And I think oxygen gas alone does it. But certainly with ozone, it does. It increases the level of something called prostacycline. It's called prostacycline because it was originally discovered in the prostate gland. But prostacycline is the body's most important vascular lubricator. And it is imbalance with a highly inflammatory prostaglandin called thromboxane. You want a ratio like this, prostaglandin and thromboxane down here. And ozone improves that ratio. If you get more thromboxane, it does exactly what it says. Thrombosis extraordinarily pro inflammatory. And ozone improves that ratio, which is what we want, improving circulation. So that's yet another mechanism of the benefit of ozone. Ozone has all. So that's div. Div has the advantage of intravenous oxygen gas. Well, Howard was shocked because at an ozone meeting, I actually came out and supported what he did through a presentation on what I do now. He claimed that his div was better than anything he ever saw in ozone. He said, my method just gets results and major autohemotherapy doesn't, or it just takes forever to get it. And I said, you're right. I never liked simple gravity ozone. I liked my method, which was hyperbaric ozone. Well, after I looked into this and I looked at the physics, I realized that when you have a bottle and you pressurize that bottle with gas and you pressurize it, the Laws of physics say that the oxygen gets dissolved into the fluids of the blood. So when that blood goes back in, you're getting a DID treatment as well as ozone. So when Robbins, he and I went like this for a long time, I said, guarantee you, Robbins, I get better results than you. And he said, you can't. And it's because he thought I was doing gravity mah. He came to my office for training and he had out of treatment. He said, oh, my God. He said, you're not doing mah. You're doing hyperbaric ozone. And yes, he bowed. We're friends. If you ever come to a workshop that we do together, you'll be laughing the whole time. And he bowed. He said, yes, you're right. You're getting better results. This is a better treatment, but it's more expensive to do and it leaves more medical waste. So Robbins does what he does because the only real waste in that is, is a very small 27 gauge butterfly. That's it. And when we went to Sierra Leone, some of those who decried div, and it was a political matter, it wasn't a medical or a science matter, they lambasted us politically for doing div. Well, look, when it comes to Ebola, which is extraordinarily contagious, if something's contaminated, I don't want to have all this blood contaminated medical waste. At least with Robin's method of div, your contamination is a single butterfly that looks sort of like this. And that's all it is. It's about one tenth the size of this, right?

Yeah.

So there's minimal medical waste. That's a huge advantage. And it's highly effective.

Yeah. So ozone therapy is actually a legal approved medical treatment in many countries. Right. Just not in the U.S. yet.

But it's not approved in the U.S. the FDA doesn't want to approve it. In fact, we had an opportunity during COVID to get it approved by the fda. A hospital in Florida applied for an IND investigational new drug, and I was on their advisory committee, and we thought, oh, my God, if there ever was a time for ozone, because people were dying in the ICU and there was no good conventional treatment for it, they went to the FDA to get approval, and the FDA came back and said, oh, we want there to be animal studies first. Now, ozone's been in use in this country for 100 years. There's hundreds, if not thousands of articles published on it. There is not a single reported death when properly used. And there have been some deaths reported, but they're crummy articles. They should have never been published. And it wasn't the IV either. I think somebody died of a heart attack about 12 hours after getting ozone, so they blamed ozone for it. That's impossible. The FDA scuttled it and many Americans died as a result. So ozone's not approved. And our fda, which is run by pharma, it's nothing more than the bully for pharma. It has a regulation saying that ozone is a poisonous gas with no known medical properties. This is on a regulation. This still exists in this country despite thousands of articles. My own article Curing 5 Cases of Ebola and several other articles that I published on ozone 2. This is still there. Why won't this move? The reason why it won't move is if ozone ever got, quote, approved, pharma would be destroyed in several months because people would use it, hospitals would use it. You would see a collapse of deaths in hospitals due to infection, local infections, wounds and other things. Because ozone, you can treat wounds with, you can treat skin infections with. You can inject it anywhere. The only place you can't use ozone is by inhalation. It's very irritating to the lungs, so you don't want to breathe it, but you can take it every other way. You can put it in your ears, you can drink ozone water. We put ozone gas in the stomach of somebody with a biliary cancer, and that patient did really well. Should have been dead in two weeks, lived over a year. You can put it in the bladder. I mentioned vaginally, rectally, intramuscular. You can use it every way, but you can even put it in the sinuses, but you can't breathe it. So is it approved? I'm not going to say it's really approved anywhere. It's allow. And in our country, it's more up to the state medical board because the FDA doesn't have jurisdiction in your office. It's got jurisdiction over the movement of things across state and international lines. But you can adapt anything in your office to the good of your patients and then use it. And the FDA doesn't have jurisdiction there. So let's not use the word approved. Now, you consider the word approved, though, then you have to consider that Vioxx was an approved drug and it killed 110,000 people in this country. And in my opinion, it was murder by pharma because they knew it was killing people and they still kept it on the market.

Yeah, well, the ozone therapy, I understand that. Yeah, in a lot of countries it's freely used. And I've heard doctors actually treating patients with COVID and actually getting great results. So I, yeah, it is really unfortunate, but that's the same. It's the case for many new therapies.

That this is not a new therapy. This is a therapy that's been around as longer, longer than pharma. Right.

But I guess call it natural therapies for many natural therapies.

Yeah.

Including stem cell therapy. You know, when people hold FDA approval as if that's, that's decree from God that that will solve all problems and, and it's really unfortunate then that's, you know, misinformed. Just not being very informed about the state of health care. You know, if a person wants to understand a little bit more about FDA approval, maybe watch the documentary called Bleeding Edge is about medical device approval. So just because you got an FDA approval doesn't mean that, that that's a fantastic therapy. And just because it doesn't have FDA approval doesn't mean that is not good. So people, you know, the sooner they come to understand that the sooner that they can get the right therapies for themselves and their families. And us as doctors, even if we're conducting therapies, that's not FDA approved per se, but what we operate under is the standard of care. Right. The evidence based medicine. So if we're able to give people treatment when there's evidence in the literature, ample evidence that it actually works, it saves lives, there's effectiveness, then we have a leg to stand on. Right. That's what we're basing our therapies on.

And that's why I publish. I publish cases to get it into the literature so that you can use them to support what you do with oxidation.

Yeah, yeah. And as doctors, really, our practice is governed by the medical board. Right. Not by the fda. The fda. Their role is to make sure drugs and therapies actually has the quality and property that they claim they have. But they don't regulate the practice in medicine. People don't quite understand that, you know, they don't have jurisdiction over how we practice medicine. And I think something like 70 to 80% of the drugs are used off label. So they're used for that are not approved by the fda. But everybody's okay with that just because it has one approval. But yeah, there's a lot of double standards going on. Yeah. So I want to ask a little bit about the. I, I think the, maybe your work in the alternative medicine field. You know, this is so interesting that, that you were Pioneering, you know, like a. What's the word? This movement. Help propelling a movement. In 1990. I came to this country in 1990, too. I still remember at the time when I mentioned the word acupuncture. There's a glaze over people's eyes. And I was in San Francisco, which supposedly was progressive. But even if I mentioned acupuncture, people. People seem to think that you're a little, you know, a little weird. So things have changed so much since then. I mean, you as a medical practitioner, probably. It's interesting to watch the shift in the medical field.

There has been a shift. In 1990, I was considered a quack by my peers in Alaska. They tried to run me out of the state. They did everything they could to get rid of me, and they lost. They lost mainly because I was on the radio in Alaska. It has a small population. Half of the population's in Anchorage, where I was. And I could reach them over the radio. And they lobbied the legislature on two issues. One was a law protecting alternative medicine. And then two years later was my appointment to the state medical board. We overwhelmed the medical mob. I called them the medical mob. Well, that law has been repeated here in California and in many other states, enabling what we do to grow. It hasn't been perfect. Some doctors, I mean, they'll find other ways to get you if they want you, you. But at least they can't take you out simply because you're giving intravenous vitamin C or simply because you're giving B12 injections. And in the past they used to do that.

Well, there are other ways that they can try to stop you. Such as in California now, we're having great trouble getting all kinds of vitamins.

Exactly. They're. They're wiping out our ability to do what we do by denying us access to the stuff that really patients need. I mean, when I give lectures, one of the first questions I ask is, can you name me a single synthetic petrochemical pharmaceutical that cures a disease? And I whip out $100 bill and I say, I'll give this to you if you can name me one. No one can do it because there is no leave out antibiotics. We're just going to. You got to remove antibiotics from this because. Yes, I'm not going to argue that they cure infection, although if you don't have an immune system, they're not going to cure the infection. So AIDS people die because they don't have an immune system. So can you name me one? I mean, is there an antihypertensive drug that cures a disease? No, all the drugs are antis. Anti acid, antidepressant, anti infective, anti, hypertensive, anti this, anti that. Well, where is there that does something for the body, that gives the body what it needs. And you can't patent that. So medicine in this country went down the evil slope. And I'm using that word not loosely, I mean went down the evil slope. Because we have a system designed by the powers that be that so that the government in league with the private corporations limits what we can do to what can be patented for profit and get approval from the Fraud and Deception Administration. You like that one, huh?

Yeah, I've not heard of that one before.

That was mine. So I, I and the cdc, the corruption, deception and something else commission the corruption and deception. So that's, that's what we're stuck with in this country because of greed and power. It is not a service to humanity. It's money. It's money, money, money. Div. Ozone is nice because it's very cheap compared to everything else. And you can't patent it. And we're getting wiped out by other means. And that they're going. They're trying to wipe out stem cells too, are they not?

Fierce opposition, yes.

Yeah. So you know, Peptides just got taken out. Stem cells could be taken out. And I haven't gotten into either of those things, to be honest with you, because I see ozone doing general miracles for people. Howard Robbins doesn't do it now. He's got a different population than I do. He's in New York city where there's 10 million people within striking distance of him. I'm in Northern California where we got a half a million in striking distance. Although you could come from San Francisco and the East Bay if you wanted to, but that's a drive. Robbins has them all in his backyard, so they can come frequently. The downside to div. Is he says you got to do it several times a week for the best result. And with the method that I do, which is hyperbaric ozone, high dose ozone, I have people coming in once a week maybe, and that's doable. In his case, he has them coming in two, three, sometimes four times a week. And he gets phenomenal results even in reflex. Sympathetic dystrophy. Doing div. We published a paper on that. So you're asking about div. Yeah, I like it. The powers that be don't. It's a political matter.

Yeah. And thank you so much for illuminating, you know, on the subject because, you know, a lot of people simply just say no and without really giving a little bit more details on how it works and what, you know, just the details about the advantages and disadvantages. So it's really good to have that perspective. And, and thank you so much for your pioneering work in both the oxidation therapy and also just, you know, the new form of medicine in general. So I just, you know, I don't, you know, it's alternative medicine. That, that's a really silly name, but what I call it, just new medicine. You know, one day this is, you know, what we're doing here. All these natural forms of therapies that actually optimize people, that actually can take out diseases from the root level. And these would just be a new way of doing medicine. You know, it's going to take some time, but I believe we're in the.

Dark ages of medicine right now.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, they have forgotten all the lessons of thousands of years of history. And, you know, we're almost at an hour. I don't know how long your podcast goes, but my mantra is eat. What if God didn't make it, don't eat it. Eat what grows around you. Ripe, raw when possible, when in season, and organic. And if you follow those rules and you do everything you can to detoxify your body, that's going to handle most everything.

Yeah. Also you mentioned detoxification. How does ozone therapy help with detoxification?

A lot of organic chemicals need to get oxidized to become water soluble. Ozone may help by taking that process off because they're not polar. And ozone may help them by getting polar so that the metabolism process can begin. I believe that ozone is a fabulous detox. I personally believe that. Why? Because when I was in Alaska, I had people come in who were poisoned from wood pulp mills, which is dioxins and other things. And they got better under our hands using ozone. So I assume that. Pardon me. I assume that ozone was upregulating the detoxification enzymes as like it was upregulating the antioxidant enzymes.

Fantastic. Beautiful. I love it. Okay, Dr. Rowan. So where can people find you and how can they follow your work?

Well, I'm on YouTube. They can go to YouTube. My channel is RobertRowen M.D. all one word. Robert Rowan M.D. that's the channel. Our website is Dr. Rowandr. Sue. Dr. Rowan. D R Sioux S U. Not Sue. S U. That's my wife's name. Dot com. That's our website. I write a substack column and under my name Robert Rowan, M.D. or Dr. Robert Rowan. And there's a free version and there's a Premium, small fee, $30 a year paid version. And we're getting new subscribers, fortunately. And those are where we can be found. If somebody wants to call the office, they can call the office at 707-578-7787.

Fantastic.

That's how you do it. I think the sub stack is really a great way to go. And I don't want anybody to believe me. Go to my YouTube channel. On the YouTube channel, you will see people who are crippled, in pain, sometimes severe pain, walking into the office and walking out dancing. You will actually see this and seeing is believing. Listening to me. Don't believe a word I say. That's what I'm telling your viewers. Go to the YouTube channel. We've had over a million views. Wow.

Wonderful, fantastic work. Thank you so much, Dr. Rowe, and really appreciate your insight and all the great work you've done for healing people.

Thank you. Joy, it's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure meeting you as well.

Thank you.