This Is Why You NEED Hydrogen Water | Dr. Joy Kong & Alex Tarvana

So there's a number of studies both in humans and various animal models showing that hydrogen is significantly improving the microbiome over time.

Really?

We've also shown in research on hydrogen tablets to improve various short chain fatty acids like propionic and butyric acid, which are directly linked to a healthy microbiome.

Alex, the guru of hydrogen molecule, thank you for coming here for receiving stem cell treatment.

Yeah, yeah, my pleasure. I've wanting to do it for a long time and I just kept putting it off and then we did our podcast and it got me thinking that I just really need to do this.

Wonderful. I'm so glad you're trusting us. So what are your thoughts of combining hydrogen and stem cell therapy?

So I think we need to research this a lot more. And I know there's been some literature reviews and opinion papers that have come out that have suggested that hydrogen could potentially significantly improve the results of stem cell therapy for a number of reason. By regulating the inflammatory response both in, you know, anti inflammatory, you know, cytokine effects and Cohen cytokines, but also lowering, you know, inflammation, improving the redox status of the cells, lowering oxidative stress, improving collagen synthesis, actually promoting, you know, mesochemylomal stem cell activation.

That's fantastic.

Since we just gave you all these stem cells and yeah, I doubled my hydrogen today.

Oh, good.

But also just, you know, impro mitochondrial function and, you know, energy output. So all of these should provide a better environment for the stem cells to do what they're supposed to do, which is working a regenerative fashion.

Right, right, right. So the stem cells, of course, we know it can help break down scar tissue, can calm inflammation, can modulate your immune system, can also promote angiogenesis and enhance mitochondria. Through a mitochondria transfer of fresh new mitochondria, it can preserve damaged tissue and can kill off cancer. And I'm assuming a lot of these things. That sounds familiar. Hydrogen.

Yeah. And hydrogen. I mean, a lot of people think hydrogen is magic. It's not. Right. But they think this because of its pleiotropic effects. Right. And how. Well, exactly right. The best way to explain this is the reason hydrogen has shown an effect across so many different areas. To date, it's shown a positive effect in over 168 disease models across every organ in the world, mainly in the body. It is because of how it works as an incredibly safe form of hormesis or an adaptive stressor that we evolved to anticipate, like exercise. Right. So we Know, with exercise, if you're healthy and fit, you exercise, you're a lot more receptive to basically every treatment. Right. Because your body has a better environment to accept the treatment, to accept healing and move forward. And hydrogen is showing to be very similar at a cellular level in that it help us respond better to our body's own healing mechanisms, but also external therapies as well.

I see.

Okay. And hydrogen is an interesting one because most people, like better healthy do work out. But a big problem is we're not getting the hydrogen that we evolved to anticipate. So why is that? For a few reasons. I mean, if we go back deep into evolution, or if we go into recent human evolution, deep into evolution. I mean, our last universal common ancestor actually had hydrogen as its fuel source, you know, from volcanic gases. And we know that our mitochondria came from eukaryotes, which expelled hydrogen gas as a waste product, which evolved from a symbiotic relationship between the organelle which consumed hydrogen. So hydrogen has been with us since the beginning. There used to be a lot more hydrogen in the atmosphere, so much of it was dissolved in water. For instance, the oldest water we found on the planet, estimated at 2 billion years old, still has dissolved hydrogen. This was found deep below the Canadian shield. In terms of modern human evolution, throughout the majority of human evolution, we consumed between 100 to 150 grams of dietary fiber a day. Now, this is important because that's how we produce hydrogen endogenously within our body. So we ferment fiber and produce hydrogen gas. We have bacteria that does this in our small intestine. Today, the Average person consumes 10 to 15 grams of dietary fiber, so 1/10. But that includes healthy people who eat a lot of fruit and vegetables and take fiber supplements. The average person on a standard American diet consumes 1 to 3 grams of dietary diet.

Oh, that's so sad.

Some people are getting as low as 1% of the fiber that we evolved to anticipate, meaning that you can only produce 1% of the hydrogen that we evolved to anticipate. But it gets worse, because bacteria are living organisms. If you're not giving them the fuel that they need, they die. So research is showing that 60 to 80% of middle aged, metabolically impaired individuals, whether they're overweight or just have a poor lifestyle now lack the ability to produce hydrogen gas. When they're given something like lactose, which is supposed to produce a hydrogen response, instead of making hydrogen, they produce methane because they change their microbiome so much through Their lifestyle, like the cows. So we know that as methane rises, health outcomes get worse. Right. We also know that as we age, methane rises in our breath and hydrogen drops. We also know that when we look at centenarians, such as studying people from Okinawa, these people who are over 100 have higher breath hydrogen than the average young person. Right.

It's probably most likely their microbiome is very different.

Exactly. Because they've lived a lifestyle that has helped them maintain a healthy microbiome. They're producing hydrogen gas, they're doing all these things and they're staying healthy past 100 years old. Whereas some people have basically destroyed their microbiome and their health by the time they're 30.

So what do you do for these people? Can they restore their microbiome?

Possibly. We know every bacteria strain is different. We know that some bacteria we can destroy and then regain within days. Others can take weeks or months or years. And I've read research suggesting that some strains and bacteria that we find in say, hunter gatherer tribes that we find on islands or in the Amazon, they have bacteria strains that are not present in any other humans and could have taken generations to lose. So there is a wide variability here. We do know that actually hydrogen not only is replaced, like taking exogenous hydrogen, like through supersaturated hydrogen water or a proper inhalation method will counter the effects of the low hydrogen would have through your production. And we know that exclusively drinking it because inhaling is just going into your lungs and then into your muscle and your brain. But when you drink the hydrogen water, it's interacting with your microbiome. Right. And that's actually one of the first points of contact that the student does. So there's a number of studies, both in humans and various animal models, showing that hydrogen is significantly improving the microbiome over them, really. We've also shown in research on hydrogen tablets to improve various short chain fatty acids like propionic and butyric acid, which are directly linked to a healthy microbiome. That's how we produce it. And we're actually conducting some pretty large research right now where we're going to be measuring people with metabolic syndrome. Actually in the inclusion, we're only including people who have low graph hydrogen, you know, like at the start. And then we're going to be looking not, not just at their, all their normal markers of metabolic syndrome, all the phenotypic biomarkers and measurements like blood pressure and weight and everything, but we're going to look at, you know, their short chain fatty Acids. We're going to look at other, a full microbiome, you know, analysis, and we're going to look at certain hormones, including like GLP1.

Well, that's wonderful. There's actually a placebo arm.

And then of course, and this is a decent sized trial, it's just started enrolling now, but it's 100 participant, six month level going.

That's really exciting. I can't wait. How long is the study?

Six months.

Okay. All right. Yeah, that's. That's really exciting. So for people who are trying to rebuild their microbiome, there's a really easy solution which is just drinking hydrogen water. So you said there's a difference between inhalation of hydrogen and hydrogen in the water. So why is there such difference?

So they basically, they get to different organs and tissues in different concentrations. So we done, you know, some pharmacokinetic studies on hydrogen, and we know that consuming hydrogen water will actually outperform inhaling gas, even if you're inhaling 100 times more in volume in specific organs. Right. So there could be some models where inhalation is better than hydrogen water. There's other models where hydrogen water is better than inhalation. There's other models that say for soft tissue injury or musculoskeletal injury, where bathing in hydrogen water might be the most superior because it's going to raise the cellular concentration, you know, to the greatest extent.

Okay. Have you tried since you have access to so much hydrogen tablets?

We have a couple clinical trials, actually.

Oh, really?

On, on bathing in them. So we showed to dramatically reduce delayed onset muscle soreness. Right. Blunt derives in creatine kinase in one bottle, double one Sibo controlled. Of the hydration tablets.

I'll use a whole bottle.

Well, they're a bigger tablet, but we use, we use, you know, like 20 of them or so. And then we have another that was head to head against RICE protocol after grade two ankle tears in soccer players. And it was interesting because the, the researchers were only looking for equivalents. Right. So they only included enough people that they thought they could show that there was no difference between the therapies. If they just recruited a couple more people, hydrogen and hydrogen kept the trend. It would have been significantly outperformed RICE protocol, rest ice, compressed elevate, which is a gold standard in multiple areas such as range of motion, you know, swelling diameter, you know, pain and in inflammation. So in all those areas there was a strong trend just from drinking hydrogen? No, no, from bathing.

Oh, bathing in it.

Yeah. Okay, Bernie. So that was interesting. So I think there's certain scenarios where you want one of the three. There's other scenarios where you might want to combine two or all three of them. For instance, the brain is an interesting one because hydrogen inhalation actually raises levels in the brain better than hydrogen water does. But hydrogen water activates a lot of our hormones in the gut, which play a big role in our brain health and brain chemistry.

So the Japanese were the people, I guess, they first discovered the important benefits of hydrogen molecule.

They popularized it. Okay, but actually the seminal article, right. That. That showed hydrogen works therapeutically was, I think it was at Texas A and M or it was one of the Texas universities. And they basically killed cancer in a rat model by putting them in a, you know, basically hydrogen rich, like hyperbaric chain. That was in 1975. I think it was Dole et al. But it never really got noticed and replicated. And then it was a Japanese, starting in 2005, 2006, it started publishing a couple articles on hydrogen. And then it really took off the Seminole article that popularized it amongst researchers. And then, you know, commercial industry was 2007, and that was published in Nature Medicine and showed that the selective free radical scavenging ability of hydrogen, so that's what really set off.

So one of the first subjects was studying its effect on cancer.

Yeah. There's actually a systematic review and meta analysis showing that hydrogen could be beneficial in various cancer models. A lot of the research, though, has focused on using hydrogen in conjunction with approved therapies. Right. And showing that there's better outcomes and lower side effects when you use hydrogen with the cancer therapy.

I see. So what were the kind of conditions that have been studied that have shown pretty good results?

There was, you know, one. One showing a dramatic reduction in side effects in people with getting, you know, radiation therapy. That was a clinical trial.

Okay.

Another, there was even chemotherapeutics for. I think it was liver cancer. That was a clinical trial. There's been a number of studies using hydrogen inhalation for cancer models showing slower progression. Those have been done in China predominantly on the tablets. We have one study in mice on hydrogen or fluorocell, which is 5 fu, which is a chemotherapeutic on colorectal cancer. And we showed that hydrogen and fluorocell were roughly equivalent in terms of reducing tumor weight and size and reducing collagen content as each other. And both of them greatly superior to the control. Right. But the combination of the hydrogen plus the chemotherapeutic completely nerfed the tumor weight and size and dramatically reduced collagen content. So it went from 23, 24% in the hydrogen and the five Fu alone groups down to 6% in the combo groups for the collagen. This was actually a really interesting study, and it showed almost like smart, you know, effects that hydrogen has because it seems to do different things in different models. It seems to know what our body needs to get back to homeostasis. So in the hydrogen only group, it did as we expect. It increased antioxidant activity and decreased oxidative stress, which we see 95% of the time in hydrogen studies. In the fluorosil group, it did exactly as expected. It blunted the antioxidant activity and it increased oxidative stress, which is how chemotherapeutics kill the cancer cells. Right, by raising stress in the cells, because cancer cells are a lot weaker than our normal healthy cells. But in the 5 Fuplus hydrogen group, the hydrogen actually potentiated the stress response of the chemotherapeutic within the cancer cell. So within the cancer cell, the oxidative stress increased significantly more than the chemo alone, and the antioxidant activity was completely blunted significantly more than the chemo alone, which allowed the tumor weight and size to dramatically reduce and the collagen content to dramatically go down.

Fascinating.

It is very, very interesting research that.

A simple molecule can react or affect cells, different type situations very differently.

100%. But we know this is true for things like exercise as well. You know, we know that the close to a magic pill to cure chronic disease and improve health outcomes is being healthy and fit, like being fit and exercising and, you know, being strong. The more fit we are, the more we utilize these adaptive stressors, the better we can adapt to these external stressors that come in. Our bodies are just stronger, they work and they function better. You know, they can improve the outcomes of all these therapeutics. Now, this isn't to say if you exercise and eat healthy, it's impossible to get diseases, because that's just not true. It is to say that if you exercise and eat healthy and you do develop a disease and your odds of getting to will be lower, you have a better chance of having a good response to the therapy.

Exactly, yeah. So what's the percentage of the population then that's deficient in hydrogen?

I think that is really based on the country, you know, because if we, we think that between 60 to 80% of metabolically impaired individuals are deficient in hydrogen and, you know, the elderly are deficient in hydrogen. Well, what is the obesity rate? North America, again, it's over 60. Yeah. 60%. So if we do upwards of 80%, of 60%, that's one in two people. And then we add the elderly on top of that and maybe 60, 70% of people are deficient in hydrogen. And this is one of the things I say, like a lot of marketers will say everyone needs hydrogen all the time. And I just don't think that's true. Right. I think if you're a child or a teenager or in your early 20s and you eat healthy and you exercise and no traumatic event has happened to you, you don't need hydrogen. Right. You're probably producing a good amount of it yourself in your body.

Is there a way to test it?

Yes, you can test your breath hydrogen. They're just not as commonly found. But a lot of researchers are promoting the idea that clinics should be testing people's breath hydrogen. Right. To determine if they have a deficiency there. And I mean by when I say a lot of researchers, a lot of hydrogen as a therapeutic researchers are promoting this of potential in the future, we should probably do measuring methane too. Right. To see how much hydrogen and how much methane.

I see. Okay. So would you be able to tell somebody by talking with them and sensing their breath to know if this person is actually deficient and healthy without a device, in a bad place?

Without a device? No, but the devices are pretty similar, simple to use.

Yeah.

You know, you have to blow like for a long time. So actually that, that's a challenge. Just like with like someone doing a breath. Wiser, old, unhealthy people sometimes get arrested because they can't provide breath samples. Right. Because they can't. They, they don't have the lung capacity to breathe in and exhale for long enough to get a measurement. It's actually the same thing with testing your breath hydrogen.

Yeah.

You know, you need to really blow for a long time. So that is one challenge that we need the devices to get better because it's the least healthy people that probably have the most hydrogen that need to determine.

So I actually used the hydrogen tablet that you developed, which, thank God, it's so convenient, so easy because I know there are all kinds of big machines or little bottles you carry around with you, but from what I understand from you is that those devices, they produce much lower concentration of hydrogen molecule in the water.

Yes. So there's two ways that you can go beyond the saturation point of hydrogen and water, which is only 1.6 milligrams a liter, 1.6 parts per million. The first way is using something called Henry's law. You increase the pressure in the system that forces more gas in. Right. So, for instance, the countertop machines use neither method. They're not using external pressurization, and they're not making nanobubbles, which is the other method. And that's why some of these machines. The machine I first bought when I got interested in hydrogen, it was like $5,000, and it was below the detection limit when I ended up testing, was like 0.03 parts per million. So it was like a fraction of the minimum therapy effect.

What's the minimum level?

Depends on the organ. So perhaps, like, to start interacting with your microbiome, you only need, like, 0.5 milligrams of hydrogen a day. But to start getting beneficial effects in the liver, you know, through water, you might need 10 or 20 milligrams a day.

Right.

So it really depends because when we take hydrogen in different ways, it's saturating various tissues and organs in different capacities. And that's the most important thing is raising the concentration in those cells in that tissue. Right. To get this adaptive stress response. So there's no good answer to what the therapeutic dose is, except it's widely dependent on your body weight, your body size, your level of stress.

Error on the side of more.

Exactly.

To saturate everything.

Exactly. Because right now, in the research, there are many, many examples where you need a higher concentration to see an effect or a higher concentration shows a greater effect. But there are no published instances as of yet where a lower dose is more effective than a higher dose or a higher dose is showing side effects. So right now, the precautionary principle would have us air high. You know, you want more and more and more. And how all hormoneic stresses, adaptive stresses work is on something called a reverse gene. Right. So with exercise, if you don't exercise, you're unhealthy. Now, if you exercise a couple hours a week, you improve your health outcomes. Now you turn that to a couple hours a day. That's actually a plateau. Your health outcomes don't improve, going from a few hours a week to a few hours a day. Now all of a sudden, you increase it to eight hours a day, and it's as bad or worse as not exercising for a lot of these health outcomes because you're in a state of chronic stress.

Yeah.

So for hydrogen, in a lot of models, we haven't found the plateau yet.

Oh, really?

Right. And we Know that it's incredibly safe because we will administer it in, like, gas mixtures for deep sea diving to get rid of the bends at 10,000 times the dose that we're giving in hydrogen water. And there's no adverse events. So we know the safety is incredibly high. We know that we haven't reached the plateau in a lot of these models. So more is better. Right? So some of these machines, ionizer machines on countertops, are usually very, very bad and very expensive. Then there's the portable bottles that you've probably seen. They, depending on the technology, will vary between 0.5 to 5 parts per million in 250 ML. So say if it's at 5 parts per million in 250 ML, it's a 1.25 milligram dose. But the challenge is they're using Henry's law, they're pressurizing, and to get to that 5 ppm, they need about 65 psi of pressure. Right. Pounds per square inch. The gaskets they're using typically are only rated for about 40 psi. Right. So in a lot of these machines, you see vast deterioration. So they might get 5 parts per million when they're brand new, but a few weeks later they might be getting 0.6, 0.7 because a leak has formed in the gasket. So now Instead of getting 1.25 milligrams, you're getting, you know, say at 0.6, you're getting 0.15 milligrams, well below the therapeutic threshold. With the tablet, our gas chromatography, that shows we're getting over 12 milligrams, a literal parts per million, in 500 milliliters of water. So you're getting a 6 milligram dose. So you're getting, compared to the best bottles on the market, you're getting about five times more hydrogen when the bottle is brand new and 40 times more hydrogen when the bottle starts deteriorating. So the difference in dosage is dramatic. And with the tablets, you're getting the same dosage every time because it's a fresh tablet every time you're using it. And this is why on the hydrogen tablets we have over 20 clinical trials, you know, like 20 something human studies. We have more clinical trials that are currently underway than we have published, you know, or finished, going through peer review. The reason why all these research teams around the world are turning to tablets and we actually have more research on hydrogen tablets than all other commercial products on hydrogen water combined.

Wow.

Right. And this is because the researchers see, well, these tablets get a higher dose, higher concentration, it's consistent. They look at all the evidence and they say, if I'm going to study this, I want the best chance to succeed because they're getting grant funding and all these things. So it's very telling that all the research teams are using the tablets and they're not using one of these other.

That says a lot. But thank you for bringing this to the world, you know, for people to actually trust and study. That's really cool. Does it matter how much volume you put? Let's say I use one tablet. If I put it in A, you know, 500 milliliters versus 250, does that make any difference?

It does. It's not going to be a doubling effect, though, right? And it's not going to be the same. So you might get like 18 per million and 250 milliliters, which is like 4.5 milligrams of hydrogen. Or in 500 milliliters, you'll get 12 parts per million, which is like 6 milligrams. So you're still getting a high dose if you're doing it in 250. The tablet was designed for 500. That's where it's the most efficient. But for instance, some of our studies on, like, the elderly, you know, they can't drink 500ml rapid, right? Young, healthy people, athletes can. So they always use weight.

About 16 ounces.

Yeah, 16.8, I think. But with the elderly, they tend to use 250ml in their studies on older, very sick people, you're still getting a very high dose.

Is it because the water just can't hold that much? You just need the volume to hold it.

Basically, the way the tablets are working to get this 12 or 18 parts per million, which is several times higher than the saturation point. It is a completely different principle than the Henry's Law and the pressurization. We're making very small nanobubbles. The nanobubbles we're making are in the 10 to 30 nanometer range. Now, we know that when you go that small, whether it's a particle or a gas bubble, it will not behave under the same rules that larger particles do. This is actually why, say, during the COVID pandemic, when they realized that the virus was very small and it was forming these particulates in the air so it wasn't traveling the six feet, social distancing. It could travel 50ft and stand in the air for hours or days. That's because the virus particulates were so small they resist floating away or single sinking. It's the same thing. If you put a particle in water. Say you put a particle that's, you know, a big chunk, it'll either float or sink.

Right.

Once you get to about 5 microns in size, it will neither float or sink. It just forever stays in suspension, moving in random directions. So it's the same thing with the gas bomb. Right. But the difference between the gas bulb particle is gas bubbles coalesce. They get bigger and bigger and bigger as they run into each other. So we're making them super small. So they have to coalesce a lot of, like a lot of times to get past 5 microns to go outside. But the less water there is, the less space there is for the same amount of bubbles. So they're coalescing quicker. So we end up losing extra hydrogen before you can drink it down. Because that, you know, going from 6 milligrams to 4.5, that 1.5 milligrams has now coalesced and dissipated out because the rate of coalescence has dramatically increased because you have the volume of water.

I see, okay. So another common question I think people will ask is how much time do you have after the tablet is dissolved?

So this is a tricky one, and it depends on how much I drink. I recommend chugging it, drinking it as fast as you can. Yeah, right.

As soon as it's fully dissolved.

I mean, I typically tell people, as soon as it rises to the surface and you see it start breaking, pick it up like you're having a beer drinking competition and slam it down, you know, open your throat and slam it.

As fast as you can.

This isn't something you want to sip on, you know, and savor. Even if you saturate it, you still don't want to sip on it. Because the way hydrogen works is by raising cellular concentrations. So you want a big blast of it very rapidly, Right. So that it all gets into your system. You know, it saturates your cells. If you're sipping on it over like an hour, you're actually never raising your cellular concentration, so you're not getting that same benefit. So you want to blast it.

Yeah, right.

As fast as you can, no matter what, what your source of hydrogen water is. But with the tablets, it's even more important because the longer you take to drink it, the more hydrogen you're losing to dissipation.

And the other tip that you offered was to drink it before rather than.

After exercise yeah, you always want to take it. So hydrogen does work when you give it after a traumatic event, but it actually has shown to work better if you preload with it before the traumatic event because then your response to this traumatic event, the stress response is better adapted. The hydrogen is there and it's helping regulate your response. So if you take it after you exercise or after you have surgery, your body has already started a lot of these repair mechanisms. So if you take it before, you're getting head start. Right.

Yeah. So good. Fantastic. So I love that we are getting into a little bit more detail. We had that podcast before, but it's just so good to hear from hydrogen guru. I know you're into other things too. I'm sure you have plenty of brain power to go into various regions. And it's so good that you developed the tablet and really found a great solution for lots of people.

Yeah, I mean, I'm glad I did too, because I started this for myself. My own interest, it's given me purpose in life. So it's fantastic to be passionate about what you're doing because then you're never actually working because you're enjoying what you're doing.

Yeah. And just, just maybe one last thing. I know when people are interested in certain health modalities, they are always asking about, what about for this condition, what about for that condition? Has it been shown to help? So just maybe give people an idea. What about, let's say someone has infection, right? Someone has Lyme disease, or somebody has brain issues, somebody has gut problems. What kind of people have benefits from using more hydrogen?

So for a lot of disease models, we definitely need more evidence, but the evidence is, the preliminary evidence is promising. So for like, say the brain, hydrogen has shown some preliminary evidence and potentially being good for cognitive decline. Alzheimer's, also Parkinson's, also traumatic brain injury, recovery from stroke. So there are some limited clinical trials on this and a lot of research in rodents that have shown it's beneficial. On the tablets, we've actually shown improvements in brain metabolism across four different studies. So in two head to head studies against caffeine, we showed in the first equivalent improvement in the attention network test after 24 hours sleep deprivation as caffeine. Interestingly, hydrogen improved orienting, you know, which capping doesn't impact, it impacts alerting. In the second study, we did a, you know, forearm, you know, quadruple crossover study where there was a placebo, placebo, a hydrogen placebo, a hydrogen caffeine and a hydrogen or a caffeine placebo and A hydrogen caffeine and the, the hydrogen group. And the hydrogen caffeine group had significantly more robust improvements in brain metabolism after some deprivation as the caffeine alone. So the hydrogen more significantly improved, you know, the choline to creatine ratios in more brain regions in the crete than the caffeine did. We also showed a similar improvement in this brain metabolism and the choline to creatine ratios in an elderly population. In the elderly we showed actually quite a few other really cool things as was six month double physiometry, double line placebo controlled in people 70 plus. It lengthened their telomeres, it improved DNA methylation, it doubled something in the blood called Tet2, a protein called Tet2 that's been linked to young blood. So if you've seen the research on like they call it vampire mouse research, you know, that's linked to Tet 2. So we doubled that in the blood. We lowered pain scores, improved quality of life scores, we improved the cm, your fitness tests, you know, in that study and sleep scores. So there's some really cool stuff in that, that elderly study.

Would you. What kind of dosing do people use in these studies? Are they taking like several tablets throughout the day or just once a day?

It varies. Study to study in the hydrogen versus caffeine, that was single dose acute, right? No, just one tablet. One tired after 24 hours in the elderly, I can't recall. It was either three or four tablets a day into 50 milliliters of water each for six months. You know, in our study on metabolic syndrome where we largely reverse metabolic syndrome in six months. So they, they lowered blood pressure, they lost weight, they improved cholesterol and triglycerides. You know, they, they lowered the A1C and the fasting glucose. You know the little.

For my dad. Yeah, he was turning 90. Yes.

In that one, I think it was three tablets a day and 250 milliliters each. So it has varied like depending on the study. So I'll work with the professors and the clinicians who are overseeing it to figure out what is a reasonable dose that these people will actually adhere to. Because we can tell them to take this dose, but are they going to take it? Right. So it's always a sweet spot of finding when are they gonna actually listen and follow the directions?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right, I think I better let you go. And I'm just so happy we got a chance to really have a nice discussion and then share this with everybody. Alex, technology is in lots of places, but one of the best places to get it is drink hrw, and that's where I also get the tablets from. So I'll put some links there. And thank you so much, Alex, for sharing your knowledge.

Yeah, yeah, thanks for letting me share it with your audience.