Understanding Stem Cells Costs: What Affects Treatment Pricing with Dr. Courtney Gillenwater

The cost of stem cells are going to go down. As time goes on, the technology keeps improving. That's going to come. If the mainstream is less resistant, it will even come sooner. Patients are seeking it. I think a lot of people are really fed up with what traditional medical care was able to offer.

What do stem cells cost? Dr. Kong, what can you tell us today about the cost of stem cells?

Well, I can't speak for everybody, of course, but I can speak to how much it costs in our clinic here in Los Angeles. So that really depends on multitude of factors. So it would depend on whether or not we are doing a local injection and how many local areas we're trying to inject, or whether or not a more systemic approach, intravenous approach, is necessary. It also depends on a person's body weight, age and health issues. So let's break it down. First of all, do people need local injection or do they need a intravenous infusion? So my philosophy is that if you want to bring the immune system on board, it's really important that you approach systemic the circulation. Because when you put cells in the bloodstream, it does interact with all your immune organs, right? Your spleen and your peripheral lymphoid system. It provoke this reaction where there's immune modulating and then there's immune boosting properties. So people can see drastic improvement without me touching the local area because the immune system all of a sudden come alive and it's coming on board to help local repair. So for people who have a lot of systemic issues, such as autoimmune conditions, diabetes. Right. Inflammation related conditions, or possibly brain disorders, we're not going to inject the brain, but we can access the brain through the systemic circulation. So for a lot of conditions it makes sense. Or internal organs. Right. You know, we're not injecting. We don't need to inject into the heart, into the lungs or liver or the kidneys. We can actually just give people iv. And in our clinic, we've seen incredible results with various internal organ conditions. So you can target a lot of things by IV infusion. But if somebody comes in and says, well, you know, my knee hurts or my elbow hurts, and you know, they have been, you know, looks like it's on the surface. So should you just inject locally? I would determine that by whether or not a person has a lot of systemic issues and how old they are. If they're older, which I regard as over the age of 55, then you are really approaching the, you know, the precipice of decline when it comes to regenerative potential. You know, we know the tissue, the power in their tissue, you know, as far as stem cells goes, probably is not as great, you know, above 45, 50, but you know, I'll say, let's just say 55 cut off. If they're over that age and they have osteoarthritis, you know, some joint issues and it's just not healing. Why is it not healing? It's because their body is not keeping up. Their body is in a more inflamed state. So local areas cannot heal. But if you address the full body, a lot of times the local areas can heal. But for something like a larger joint like the knee, we know in a large joint you can inject cells directly into the joint itself, but inner 2/3 of the cartilage is nourished by the synovial fluid. So but then there's the outer one third and that's nourished by the blood supply. So if you just put cells into the joint space itself, then you're covering a portion of what you're trying to do, right? You're helping with the repair in the local area, but you're not addressing the outer one third. And also you're not bringing the immune system on board. So that's the issue. So that's why I think we have such high success rate by attacking both angles that you can address systemic circulation and then, you know, helping the body to boost its ability to repair and then putting in low coding. So you have a lot of signals right, in the local area. So of course the cost of cells is high. We use umbilical cord derived stem cells and these are extract it from healthy newborn tissues. Right? The newborn, it's all good and then born, but the birth tissue is going to be usually discarded. But now we can collect them and extract powerful cells or other growth factors from these tissues. But the processing and the entire process is expensive. So the acquisition and there's a lot involved. So the more of these cells you use, the, the more expensive they are. So if you're doing both the infusions and local injections, that's going to add to the cost. So as far as infusions, how much does it take? Right. For joints, I would say in our clinic we use, you know, because our product is very potent, you don't need a whole lot. You use 1 to 2ccs of our product called charcoal core. And when you use IV infusions, then we calculate by the body weight and age and health issues. So one cc for every 60 pounds of body weight, another cc for somebody that's over the age of 65, and another cc if somebody has a severe health issue, you know, like diabetes, an autoimmune disorder or brain condition. So then the more you add on to the volume of the cells you need, because, you know, there's a dose dependency. Imagine if your body has a lot of inflammation. There's only so much cells can do in one location, right? If you have, you know, let's just say a million cells, and then, you know, you have 10 places that needs help, then each place only have 100,000. Right. But what if you have a lot more places that need help? Then they're going to be, you know, let's say 20 places need help, then each place going to have less cells to do the work, and then it's going to be less effective. So the more serious your issues are, you know, the more damage there are, then the more cells you tend to require. So in general, in our clinic, the cost is between a joint injection of $5,500 to an IV infusion. If you do multiple joints, the back and knees, a lot of people do right shoulders. So they want to fix everything. And that can approach $20,000. So it can, you know, all add up. But what we include in the treatment is we're adding ozone therapy right before stem cells. And then we do stem cells and exosomes, and then we also add certain peptides. We use our laser technology, which is incredibly healing, and they also promote the viability, the health of the cells, so they actually make the health of the cells function better. And they also help to direct the cells to certain locations so we can focus the light in certain places and get more cells into those areas.

Oh, when someone's getting a systemic IV therapy, we can simultaneously target that IV therapy to certain specific areas. And that way even if they're getting just iv, it can be targeted to say, an area where they have pain or discomfort or inflammation.

Yeah, absolutely. So that's really exciting. Know, it's completely non, invasive, so I don't have to think about trying to get to any organs. And that can of course cause potential damages. You know, all these surgical procedures of injections, you know, into particular organs have their problems. So using light is very elegant. You, you can attract the cells to particular areas. So anyhow, so as far as cost, that's, that's the range in our clinic. So, you know, the range of the steps out therapy cost is just gets a little crazy because some People, you know, I, you know, I know it's not uncommon to, for people to pay $30,000 overseas. I've heard the number, you know, up to $50,000. But then I also have heard much cheaper rate in Mexico. Right. People were saying, oh, 5,000. If I can get 5,000, why would I come to you? That's an interesting question because you really have to look at where the cells are made, right. First of all, where are the donors? Are they from Mexico or Costa Rica? Whatever location you are, where the prenatal care is of a particular level. So the US still has the best prenatal care as far as monitoring, screening. We're screening out all these different kinds of infectious diseases. And of course, the processing of the cells is really crucial. What are you checking and how are you validating what's in the product and what's your sterility testing? So my company actually started the stem cell company.

Okay.

In response to the fact that I saw a lot of people are in the space just to make money. So I see a lot of business people. I love business people. No problem with that. But, but what I've seen is because there's so much profit to be made that there's this effect of all kinds of people coming in. Some may not have as much conscience as others as what I'm hoping for. So they put profit before science and they put quality last. So that was one of the problems I saw. So when I came in, I designed a product that has the most scientific evidence. You know, I'm combining different compartments of the cells into one product, but also to ensure the quality. So all that adds to the cost. Right. And also what we use is native stem cells, so we do not expand. So the word expansion just means that you're putting the cells in a, you know, some kind of a container, and you put in a culture medium, you know, that help the cells grow. And you put them in an incubator and leave them there so they can grow. So that's what has been done in overseas clinics. We cannot do that in the US Unless you are under a clinical study, because the FDA says if you are expanding the cells and growing them, then you're making drugs. So if you want to make drugs, then you have to go through a drug study. So all these clinics do not want to deal with these regulations. That's why they're overseas. Right. Otherwise they will be here. Why would they make it so inconvenient? So people had to go everywhere else. Right. Because they're saving themselves Problems and trouble by just doing it overseas where they're. They're very little over. Yeah, oversight and regulation. So you don't have to prove, you know, a lot of these products, there's no, no, not enough validation of what's actually in the product. And what is the process like. I've known people who have visited these places before, and what they saw was not very encouraging because the cells were just left in the incubator over the weekend. No one is checking on them. And then they're just multiplying. The thing is, when you put the cells into a foreign environment, on the petri dish and whatever, some kind of container in an artificial environment, and you think you're giving the cells what they need, but there's nothing that you can create that's going to be as conducive to life as your own body. Right. Our body's mate for life. So you're trying to imitate the body, but that creates a stress, stressful environment for the cells because they don't know what it is. What, what is this plastic, you know, like on top. Okay. So I'm going to try to adapt to this new environment. So in the process of adapting, they end up secreting different inflammatory factors or they start to differentiate because they want to gain some function. They want to, you know, instead of just being a blank cell, they want to be able to do more. So then they differentiate, creating what's called the daughter cell. So the daughter cell is not identical to the stem cell. It's a little bit different. And when it becomes different, that means the DNA of that cells has started to express surface markers, have to express different proteins. And these new proteins are what can cause a type of rejection reaction. Right. So because they are similar to what's expressed in the donor, and the donor, of course, is not the same as a recipient, the beauty of stem cell therapy is that the cells are fairly blank. They're naive in a sense that they, they don't express all these things that mark them as, as foreign. So they're kind of blank cells. We're trying to utilize that, especially MSCs. Mesenchymal stem cells are a lot more immune invasive compared to hematopoietic progenitor cells, which is what's used mostly in bone marrow transplant and cord blood transplantation.

Oh, God.

What I incorporate is a lot of core tissue stem cells, which are mostly mesenchymal stem cells. And those are very immune. Calming. So calming. It can be used to prevent organ transplantation rejections. So there's A combination of these cells. But when you put these cells into a petri dish and let them grow, they can produce inflammatory reactions and causing so called cytokine storm. And it's funny that Tony Robbins was saying his books how that, yeah, you're going to expect to have a cytokine storm when you get stem cell therapy. And it just, I just shake my head. It was like, well, I love Tony Robbins. But on this particular point, it's not correct information. You don't have to have a cytokine response. Actually, I have never seen a cytokine response in our clinic because the cells are native cells. They have not grown so much surface receptors to cause rejection. So no one is having this huge immune reaction. Yeah. So no one is having cytokine storms. That's the difference between overseas and in the clinic. So why can they charge so much overseas? Why can Mexico charge 5,000 whereas, you know, Panama, you know, or other places charge 30 to 50,000? I don't know. So it's a little arbitrary. First of all, I'm sure the cost is lower in Mexico, but also the screening and everything, it's, you know, that's done at a, you know, I personally would not feel comfortable.

Standard of care might be different in certain circumstances.

Yeah. So, but you can, you can. There are still some people who got good results. But I've also seen very reputable companies that were on, I think, Joe Rogan's show. Yeah, that's why one of our patients went over there to Mexico to do Tijuana to go to that particular clinic because of Joe Rogan's podcast. But unfortunately, not only he got significant side effects of two months of extreme fatigue, but also 20 other patients all had the exact same symptoms, which was two months of fatigue. Right. And then he came to our clinic and there was absolutely no fatigue. Instead of fatigue, he got increased energy in a couple days and then within a few days he started having improvements in his lung symptoms instead of waiting for improvement in two and a half months. So that's the difference. Right. So if you, you know, the potential that you are, you have the potential to get higher quality cells. Right. In this country, highly regulated and not expanded. And you save yourself, you know, time and money to travel to another country. Right. That's another expense. So really I think it makes sense to do the treatment here. But, you know, everyone can do, you know, what they want. All I can do is provide information and in places that charge a lot more, 30 to 50,000. I think that's a business decision. That, you know, that's made, you know, if they feel they can't charge that much, then they will charge that much. I can tell you it doesn't cost as much when you expand the cells because from a small number of cell, from one umbilical cord, you can produce a huge amount of cells and you can portion them off to treat many, many patients. So you're lowering your cost drastically and that's one reason they're doing it and being the cost is drastically reduced. And then, then you can charge whatever you charge, but you can advertise that you are getting people 200 million cell, 300 million cells. But never mind the high count doesn't mean higher quality and higher response. So, so that's kind of, you know, the analysis of the cost.

Okay. And then if I could just recap if I heard you correctly. Thank you. So I think one of the things I appreciate about you most is your ethical standard of care in giving stem cells and actually caring if the patients are having improvement of symptoms. That for me personally is really important because in this day and age, finding people who actually genuinely care is unique and special and you can't really put a price on that. And I really also appreciate how you explained the extensive screening process that you use for the donor mothers and all of the prenatal care they're receiving in a first world country and how that can benefit.

Yeah. I want to mention something that's really special about our product is that we actually optimize the mothers. So nobody in the industry is doing that. We actually make sure the mothers are eating the right diet, are having the right exercise regimen, getting on the vitamin regimen so they can optimize their pregnancy. Right. You can't just go ahead and eat, you know, bad seed oils and, you know, drink Coca Cola and thinking that's going to, you know, not affect the quality of your pregnancy. Right. Which will affect the quality of umbilical cord. You know, of course, the most important thing, the baby. Right. So, but it's really important to do the right things to start from the root right from the start of life. We want to optimize from the beginning.

That looks fantastic. Thank you so much. And as a pediatrician, I of course always love hearing. Helping not only your patients here with the most optimal source of the birth tissue derived stem cell, you're also optimizing the babies that are coming out of those pregnancies that are donating lives. So you're helping people on both sides.

The other thing I want to, to mention Is that even at the price range, which I think is very reasonable to the kind of healing, you know, what we're providing also because the cost of the cells are high, and also the physicians who are doing the stem cell therapy, in a sense, are taking on certain risks because it's still in a gray area, in a gray zone. Even though in California, no one says it is legal to do stem cells and no one says it is illegal to do stem cells. So, you know, the FDA says, okay, if you do stem cells without manipulation of the cells, you don't change the cells, then you're doing tissue transplantation. But still, you know, a lot of insurance company malpractice they're not covering. So the doctors are taking out certain risks. So that all add to the consideration of cost. But in our clinic, we have decided in order to give more access to people. So if a patient can prove that they don't have as high of an income to afford the product, you know, to afford the treatment, and then we have a financial assistance program that we, you know, we want to bring this to anybody that needs healing. So that's something I'm excited to. To kind of introduce. So we will bring more access to people.

Thank you so much. That is just music to my ears. And I am so grateful for all of the information and just this opportunity that you are now going to be providing in your clinic to give more access for the healing potential of stem cells to more people is a dream come true. So thank you for that. And I just really appreciate also how you're explaining each of the components that goes into cost, because that can help people understand where the numbers come from, I think a little bit. Right?

Yeah. It's not as cut and dry. There's a reason that. Yeah. So there's a lot that goes, you know, behind why it costs certain amount. And, you know, so each person is individualized. Right. We don't know what each person would need. That's why the consultation is really important. We want to see how can we help each person. Of course, in our clinic, we don't just only rely on stem cells. What if you don't have, you know, enough of certain vitamins or certain amino acids in your body? You know, what if that's causing a drag on your ability to heal? So what about your hormones? You know, what if you're toxic? So we want to really look at the person holistically. So that's something I know. It's important to bring true healing. Right. Because our body is so complex. I know how powerful stem cells are. I've seen doctors or patients having tried everything else for their own conditions, and then it's only until they introduce stem cells that everything just took off. Because you need the engine, right? That's the engine that's driving everything. So you can get all the ingredients together. But if you don't have the final engine to help push you forward, you may not heal. So this is a really crucial piece of the puzzle. But then the other parts are important too. So we do everything here. Yeah. So I hope this brings some clarity to people and really give people a good idea of what to expect. And frankly, the cost of stem cells are going to go down as time goes on, the technology keeps improving, so that's going to come. If the mainstream is less resistant, it will even come sooner. But it's grassroots movement because patients are seeking it. I think a lot of people are really fed up with what traditional medical care was able to offer. You know, I was, you and I both, you know, we're both MDs, you know, trained traditionally with pharmacology is a very drug centered education. So, you know, if we just kept throwing drugs at people, we're not really fundamentally helping them heal. And that's what caused a lot of burnout to doctors. A lot of doctors, you know, quit medicine because they're so tired of not being effective, not truly helping people. So now we're offering a real solution, real hope. And we've seen that in the clinic of just how joyful it was to really bring huge change in someone's lives and then they are, you know, they're grateful and it just, you know, that's, that's the way that, how we should be as doctors is to bring true healing. Right. We don't want to make people hang on cliffs. You know, I just, that's what I, you know, always look at conventional medicine. Unfortunately, you know, surgery, you know, a lot of, you know, there's a lot of merits, but for chronic illnesses, the management is a cliffhanging medicine. And I just, it's not the way to help people live a better life. So anyhow, the bottom line is making an effort to make this more available for people. Yeah.

Thank you so much for doing that. I, I'm so excited and looking forward to seeing people come in and have this opportunity to share in the joy of healing. And just, I really appreciate your time today explaining the factors as well. I think that can be very helpful for people to understand as well.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Gillian. Water. And thank you for listening until the end.