Why You Need Copper | Dr. Edward Griffen on THE DR. JOY. KONG PODCAST

Are there any good food that people can take a lot off to actually get enough copper?

How about organ meats? Oysters, shellfish, whole grains, leafy greens, shiitake mushrooms, nuts, dark chocolate, bee pollen are all really high in copper.

So what kind of things have you clinicians noticed, you know, or people have reported? So anti inflammatory pain reduction, Anemia.

Anemia is a big one with the, the case study that I talked about. So reducing the anemia inflammation is one of the biggest ones. The brain fog. Some people's brain fog goes away as you start supporting those pathways. Just blood in general, it supports healthy blood.

Hello. Welcome everybody. Welcome Back to the Dr. Joy Kong podcast. As you know, not only am I passionate about stem cells, but I'm passionate about all holistic health and, and in including our mental health. So I bring together doctors, scientists and other forward thinkers to my podcast to discuss different new breakthroughs in science and in technology and also in thinking to enhance the wellness and happiness that we experience in life. So today I have the fortune to bring back a previous guest, Dr. Griffin Edwards Griffin. And now we're going to discuss a really important element, copper. So, Dr. Griffin, thank you so much for coming back on the show.

Thank you so much for having me again. It was such a pleasure last time. I looked forward to doing this again and talking more with you.

Yeah, it's wonderful. So just a quick overview. I want to introduce listeners to Dr. Griffin, who actually is a naturopathic doctor from the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine in Arizona. And Dr. Griffin spent four years teaching general education imaging program, the medical imaging program in Phoenix and where he developed a passion for education and teaching. And he had some health challenges in the past which led him to nutritional healing through naturopathic medicine. And that's what's also driving his passion for helping others for, in their quest for, for optimal health. So Dr. Griffin, thank you so much for being here and I would like to ask you what you know, I know we talked about silver last time, just how powerful and how crucial it is for our health and how did the company. Sovereign silver. Right, Sovereign.

Sovereign silver is our retail side. Argent is our professional side. So both products. So sovereign silver is a 10 part per million SIL, where Argentin 23 is a 23 part per million. So.

Right. And I know the company, you know, has been producing the best silver products in the country, but then it got into a copper product and I know it was, you know, I've talked with various people in your company who are very passionate about the copper products. So can you tell me what even brought about this passion and why is it so important?

Well, the hydrosols are really important because it's really about. And going to talk about silver for a moment.

Okay.

We're talking about silver and anything that we're going to take and ingest into our body, it's really about the form that we're taking. So, like, magnesium is one that a lot of people are familiar with. There's different types of magnesium depending on what you're trying to do. So whether you're taking a mag citrate or a mag 3 and 8 or a mag torate really changes kind of the focus of where the magnesium goes. So the same thing happens with any other element that we're taking. And the interesting is really, really, the company started, the idea for silver actually started as a water purification for a pool in France. So Stephen Quinto, the founder of the company, wanted a safer way or a natural way of cleaning the pool water. And then he went off and he was very entrepreneurial and he ran some airlines and did several things in his life. And it wasn't until later that somebody brought up, hey, what about that silver idea that you had? And then he did a bunch of research, hired a bunch of scientists, came in and it's like, wow, this has some real scientific evidence and history behind it. And that's where silver came from. And Sovereign Silver was launched in 1999. Interesting enough, next year in 2024, is our 25th anniversary, which is the silver anniversary. And then Argentin 23 came out a few years later. So the slightly more the profess line, slightly stronger version, but I tell people all the time, and I think I said last time I was on the show, when you're talking about an element is you're looking for four things when we're talking about silver. Purity, particle size, parts per million, and positive charge. That's what makes it effective, that's what makes it safe. So you want pure, you only want water and silver. With copper, you only want water and copper. And we actually put a hint of silver in our copper. And then particle size, we have come up with a propriety process that gets it down as small as 0.8nm. So just how small that is is just tiny. Many other companies can talk about nanometers, but we are one of the smallest that I'm aware of, as small as 0.83 nanometers, which is amazing. So now you've got the purity, you've got the particle size and the Importance of the particle size is once you've got that particle, smaller particle means greater surface area, means higher bioactivity, means it's more available for the body. So to get into the body and go where it needs to go, so you can go a lower parts per million once you get the purity and particle size right. And then the other thing that's super important when it comes to silver especially is positive charge. The positive charge of silver is what makes it effective. So when a silver turns yellowish or is a brownish, is it loses its charge. So a silver should always be clear showing that it has that positive charge. Now, the same propriety process that we use to make our silver went into making our copper. So similar idea going with that very safe, effective particle size.

Can we back up for a little bit? Because I would like our listener to have an understanding of why copper is even important. So why are we even looking at copper? Can you maybe educate everyone on this?

Yeah. So copper is so important, it's considered an essential trace mineral. So we need it in our diets. And According to the US FDA, 900 micrograms is the minimum is the RDI. So the required daily intake and anything that is essential, it's because our bodies don't make it, so we have to ingest it. So whether we're talking about essential amino acids or essential fatty acids, the things our bodies don't make, so we need to ingest those things. So copper is essential nutrient, and as an essential nutrient, we need to get it into our diets. And as I'll I'll talk about here momentarily is our diet is severely lacking in that. So not only in copper, but so many other minerals. So from magnesium to copper to iron, our soils have been depleted. A lot of our farming mechanisms that have happened over the years have decreased the availability of nutrients as well as throw in things like the pesticides, the chemicals, a lot of them are actually chelators. So they're going to bind up those essential nutrients that now we can't ingest because now they're bound up by a chelator. So whether seeds are chosen for their size or the ease of growth, they're often sacrificing nutrient density. So everything from magnesium to calcium to iron to copper to zinc are all decreased. And oddly enough, copper is the most deficient in our diet, with up to 70 to 80% being taken from our soils from just like 50 years ago. So over the last 50 years, we've declined our copper in our soils by as much as 80%. And copper is so important in so many what we'll call cuproenzyme pathways. So it's very important as a cofactor in these enzymes to make them work properly. And this is where we can get into the structure, function idea.

So you first explain what happens when someone is deficient in copper. What are the health consequences?

Yeah, so some of the health consequences are going to be deficiency symptoms. So some of the main deficiency symptoms are things like chronic inflammation, which is inflammation is the lead to every disease. So chronic inflammation, fatigue, muscle weakness, brittle bones, memory loss, changes in your vision, heart disease, pale skin, premature aging for wrinkles or paling, darkening of the skin, even susceptibility to sickness. Copper supports our immune system and one thing that's huge is anemia. Copper supports our red blood cells. We need copper in order to clot properly. We need copper in order to carry the hemoglobin in our blood. So the cupra enzyme is actually called ceruloplasmin, is very important to mobilize iron. And we've talked about for years that anemia is going to be a iron deficiency. So we're familiar with iron deficiency anemia. It's not necessarily an iron deficiency, but very often an iron dysfunction. Without the amount of copper to now mobilize and transport that iron, it looks like you have an iron deficiency because you don't have the copper needed to now move that oxygen and move that iron.

Fascinating. So have they seen that anemia going away after supplementing with copper?

Definitely. We actually have a case study that I did recently with a naturopath, another naturopathic friend of mine, and she had an anemic patient and used copper and saw anemia go away. And in just about a month, I think it was about a month and a half with was the case study and the pretest post test, she went from being low in copper to normal in copper and her anemia went away.

Wow.

So pretty amazing.

Yes.

Yeah. But I think it's horrible that we talk about iron. We're iron deficient, but we have iron fortified food all over the place. And the way I look at it is iron and oxygen. What happens when iron and oxygen come together, that's oxidative damage. So if we add a bunch of iron into our diet, we now have this oxidative damage that we now have to fight with antioxidants. And speaking of antioxidants, one of the most powerful antioxidants in the human body is superoxide dismutase, or sod. So SOD is so Important. And sod one is actually zinc, copper, sodium. So copper is a major component. So now our diets are deficient in copper, and we don't have this antioxidant. So now we're showing more inflammation, more problems that keep happening. So there's. Other than the agricultural aspects, think about all the other issues that lead to a copper deficiency. So how about digestive issues? We talk about leaky gut syndrome. We talk about how many patients do you see that have leaky gut or have a GI disturbance? How many Americans talk about burping or gas or bloating all the time and poor GI health? Whether it's chronic diarrhea or constipation or Crohn's disease, colitis, celiac disease, we have these GI issues. So now we can't absorb what's. We're already deficient in copper in our foods. Now we can't even absorb it. Now take into the fact. How about over the last three years with the pandemic, we talked about supporting our immune system with zinc and vitamin C. I never heard anybody talk about adding copper to the diet to support that zinc or to support our immune system. So we have this malnourishment that's happening because of poor digestive health. So I think it's so important. And then throw on the top of high fructose corn syrup that is in everything. And I truly believe if we could eliminate high fructose corn syrup, most people would get better almost instantly if we could just eliminate that. And I've talked to many people, I say this in passing or when I've been in interviews. I believe that if sugar was discovered today, it would be classified as a drug. High fructose corn syrup was just discovered today. Naturally, we would look at it and the way that it acts within our body, we would. It would be listed as a drug. So just amazing. But the other thing I'd like to talk about is we have. We talk about this obesity epidemic in America. I believe obesity is merely the symptom. I believe we have a malnourishment epidemic. So not only low in copper, but low in so many other minerals and nutrients and vitamins. So adding those things back in by improving the digestive system is the way to get started with any condition that we're talking about. So I believe we have a malnourishment epidemic that's leading to obesity as a symptom. So think about how many people go out and eat, not necessarily because they're hungry. The hunger is your body saying you want more nutrition, you want, you need the vitamins, you need the minerals. But now we go out and we eat those high calorie, low nutrient foods. Where does that leave us? Still hungry in another 15 minutes, in another half an hour, we're satiated for a short time, but now we're still needing those nutrients. Our body says, hey, you're still hungry, you're still starving for nutrition. So it's so amazing that we look at these things, but so much comes back to just nutrition. And with copper, so amazing that increasing the copper can really support all these cuproenzymes, help to decrease inflammation and just support our overall system.

So you're saying copper. I understand that our digestive issues have damaged our ability to absorb nutrients, including copper, but does copper help with digestive issues as well?

That's where I lean more towards silver when we're talking about digestive issues, because silver has this amazing ability to. We're killing off pathogenic bacteria with silver. So. But we are also healing. So one of the benefits of silver is the healing of the GI tract. So there's an amazing intestinal health protocol. I think I might have mentioned it on the last one, but I'll mention again right now is an ounce of silver mist with an ounce of organic aloe vera juice to heal up the GI tract. That's where I start with almost anybody that I see as a patient is, let's heal up the GI tract.

Do you take it once a day or more than that?

Taking it three times a day on an empty stomach before meals. So 30 to 40, 45 minutes before meals.

Okay.

The way to get it in the aloe helps carry it through the stomach and get it into the intestines. And then aloe is also soothing and nourishing for the GI tract as well. So once we now heal up the GI tract, now you got better absorption. So this is where now copper comes in. If you heal up the GI tract, you start to decrease that leaky gut, you start to increase the absorption of all the nutrients in our body. So it's kind of, you know, twofold. There is you're healing up the GI tract that you can absorb things. So now you're getting more from your food. But 81% of the population gets less than 2/3 of the RDI of copper. So it's pretty amazing that we're getting. And we all know that the rda, the RDI are kind of on the low side. And typically RDA RDI are meant to be the minimum to prevent Disease, not the amount needed to promote actual health. So I think it's so important that we actually get above those RDAs, RDIs with our nutrition. And so for copper, we're talking 900 micrograms is the RDI for copper, but the average person is only getting about 2/3 of that, talking maybe 5 to 600 micrograms per day. So that's why it's so important to supplement with a little bit of copper and get it into your body.

Yeah. How do the company Sovereign Silver zoom in on copper? I mean, there are so many minerals. What, what, what made that such a, you know, paramount part of it is.

We looked at, you know, historically and I talked about the silver last time as far back as Pocrates talked about silver for wound healing. So it's. I'm going to jump back to Hippocrates again. So as far back as Hippocrates, but also. Let's go even further back as far back. You know, throughout history, healers have understood the value of copper in maintaining optimal health, whether it's applied topically or ingested. So whether it's a copper carbonate, a copper silicate, copper acetate have been used throughout history, as far back as ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, ancient Rome and even the Aztec civilization knew about the importance of copper. The oldest written about is something called the Smith Papyrus, which is an ancient Egyptian text where they talked about copper as a sterilizing agent for drinking water and wounds. Look at some of our history. And water was kept in the. We drank out of copper cups or, or silver cups. We didn't understand the microbiology at the time, but they knew that it tasted better if it was in copper or silver and stayed cleaner. So even far, you know, moving forward a little bit back, another ancient text called the Ibis Papyrus mentioned copper for headaches, for something called trembling of the limbs, for burns, for itching. And Cyprus, the island off of Greece, provided much of the copper for both the Phoenician and the Roman empires. So it's been documented as far back as 400 BC and Hippocrates all of these benefits. Hippocrates used it for varicose veins. Now, interesting enough with the varicose veins, if you look at cuprum metallicum, or homeopathic copper, one of the keynotes is varicose veins. So cupra metallicum is used for varicosities. So absolutely amazing in all, how is.

The use for varicose veins? How was it used?

It was either applied topically or orally. So the Greeks did a they actually sprinkled this powder of copper oxide, copper sulfate on open wounds, but used a mixture of honey and red copper oxide and applied it in order to help support the varicose veins. So and then think about even for years we've talked about copper. Go into a health food store today and you'll find copper bracelets and copper jewelry. Think about how about Tommy Fit Copper, the copper braces that you wear on elbows and knees. Applying copper topically to help support arthritis and inflammation. How about taking it internally as well to support even more. So pretty amazing I tell when people, when I talk about the jewelry too is my grandfather had this copper ring that he always wore and he swore that it helped his fingers and his arthritis. So I think it's so fascinating. All the anecdotal, you know, as far back is another one. Pliny the Elder described a number of different remedies. Black copper oxide mixed with honey again to kill intestinal worms. Purging the stomach, using drops in the nose to clear the head, ear drops to clear out ear infections, eye pain. Even the Mongolian tribes used copper sulfate to treat when taken by mouth to treat venereal ulcers. And even more recent, the first recorded observation of copper Rolls is in 1867 was reported that during the cholera epidemics of in Paris, 1832, 1849 and 1852, they noticed that copper workers were immune to the cholera. So it was supporting the immune system. In 1885, the French physician Luton reported using copper acetate to treat arthritis. So so many anecdotal evidence and throughout history, jumping into the 20th century and Germany used copper chloride and lecithin and used it in anti cancer activity. Just mind blowing. I'm just kind of scrolling through some notes that I have here and just numerous studies after study that support this as far back as, you know, the 1800s, the 1900s and even as far back as 2400 B.C. with that Smith papyrus that we've used it in all types of things. Even jumping even forward a little more into 1973, Dr. Cleave theorized that a metabolic imbalance between zinc and copper was the major contributing factor to coronary heart disease. Which is amazing when we start looking at some of the cupro enzymes that we now know more about is copper helps with cuproenzymes that support the flexibility of our arteries and our heart. So a lot of heart disease happens when things stiffen. So if arteries stiffen, if our heart muscle stiffens, it's this anti inflammatory action of copper complexes that help support the health and overall health of the individual.

Yeah, yeah. I just want to add something because of course I utilize peptides in my clinic and GHK copper has become famous. Right. It's used in a wide variety of things and it's a copper peptide that actually is secreted or generated after tissue injury. And it's a very anti inflammatory, it protects the tissue from oxidative damage. But this peptide level actually decrease with age with, you know, increased inflammation. And so it's actually pretty common. You know, it's first found in human plasma and then like you said, you know, this wide range of benefits from copper. So the GHK copper is great for wound healing, promotes collagen production, it increase improves skin firmness, elasticity and it is also great for the brain. Is fascinating.

Exactly. They're finding in the nervous system and in psychology with brain function and development of the substantia nigra and the production of dopamine, that copper is one of those enzymes. It's so important even in dopamine. So it's just absolutely amazing. It's so versatile. Just like we talked about with silver. How versatile it is, how, how many pathways I. Somebody, I heard somebody recently told me that 300 different pathways have copper in it. And I talk about 14 major cuproenzyme pathways, but there's at least 300 pathways out there that require copper. And like you talked about with collagen formation, elastin formation, all those things. Think about, I jokingly say, when I'm talking to people, oftentimes if it moves, it requires copper. Whether we're talking about bone and joint health, whether we're talking about the vasculature, think about dilation and constriction of our blood vessels. Think about our heart that's pumping 24 hours a day, seven days a week, our entire life. Heart disease happens when it stiffens. Vascular disease happen when our. How about atherosclerosis? Arteriosclerosis happens when our arteries harden and aren't flexible. So with collagen, anybody taking collagen for anti aging? If you're not taking copper with your collagen, you're not getting the full benefit of the collagen. Copper is the mortar that holds the collagen together. So I talk about bricks. If you were to pile up a bunch of bricks and push on it, it's going to fall over. But if you pile up bricks and put mortar in between it, it becomes strong. So copper is the mortar holding those collagen bricks together and supporting that tripeptide and that's why it works so great as the peptides that we're talking about.

Yeah, and I was just looking at, you know, it's just a wide range, you know, good for the lungs, for liver, like you said, for bone, you know, bone repair and fights cancer. It's good for, to help with hair, you know, reduce hair loss. I mean it's just, it's such a wide range of benefits. So I, I guess, I, I guess sovereign silver, you know, it's, it's passion partially came from history. I, I suppose it came from history.

There'S this passion for it, but also that word sovereign I think is, this was what drove me to the company is sovereign and that freedom. And it's, it's the right to choose your health. The right, the, I'm going to say the responsibility to take care of your own health. Not just a right to health care. But why aren't, why are we eating McDonald's and eating fast food and eating all these things that are bad for us? Why not support our health? We talk about this right to health care. What about our responsibility for our own health? And this health sovereignty is where our company really started. And then this going back to silver and copper and interesting you mentioned why silver and copper. If you look at the periodic table and look at the period, you've got copper, silver and gold all in that same row. And the importance of a period on the periodic table is they're going to have similar properties. So it's those health properties and where silver is great as an antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, copper has some of those same similar antimicrobial properties, typically more as an antifungal, anti parasitic. But now how about gold in supporting neurological health is there is a lot of evidence supporting the neurological health. And by the way, I'm not letting the cat out of the bag or anything, but we've been working on a sovereign gold.

Oh wow, that's beautiful.

I don't know how far down the road it is. We don't release it until we know that it is the best product that we can have and put on the market.

Amazing. So the copper that's in these products is it the element itself is element.

Down to both copper one and copper two. So both the cuprous and cupric form of copper, and that's why we call it a bioactive copper hydrosol. We're down to microscopic nanoparticles that are easily absorbed. And so copper, we are actually the only product on the market that is both copper 1 and copper 2. Most supplements that you'll get are going to be copper 2 only or a copper oxide. Your body needs both copper 1 and copper 2. If you're only taking copper 2, your body has to work to convert to the copper 1. So by taking copper 1 in a liquor, copper 1 and 2 in a liquid form that's easily absorbed easily into the body, you're getting the, again, the most bioactive, bioavailable form. You don't need to change things. In some of the versions that I mentioned in the history, there is a copper acetate is going to be great, maybe for a topical use, but your absorption internally is not going to be as good. Copper sulfate. A guy named Jason Hammel wrote a book called the Copper Revolution. And in his book he talks about using copper sulfate because of how inexpensive it is. And he's doing high dose, 10 milligrams, 20 milligrams. But at copper sulfate, you're only absorbing about 10% of it. And as you go up in dosage, you absorb less and less as you go higher and higher. Your body knows that it only needs so much, and it's essential that we take it every day, so when we go too high, we're not absorbing it. So the importance of something like a sovereign copper is the low dose for the safety, for the efficacy, but also in the form that our body needs, that's the importance there, which is a copper plus, and then there's copper two, which is copper plus plus. So it's the cuprous and cupric form. And depending on the enzyme that we're talking about in the body, different pathways need a copper one or a copper two. And we can convert. Our bodies know what they need and convert between the ones and twos. But again, they'll serve you. The copper enzymes or cuproenzymes from ceruloplasmin that I mentioned, that helps support ferroxidase, that supports that copper transport, or, pardon me, that iron transport and utilization. Lysol oxidase is the one that is very important for collagen and elastin cross linking. So that's Lyso oxidase is the cooper enzyme needed for bones, joints, healthy skin. That elasticity of our skin, why do we get wrinkles? We get wrinkles because of either loss of subcutaneous fat dehydration, or the big one is loss of elasticity in the skin. Our skin doesn't bounce back like when we were younger, and part of it is because of low copper. But the other part is, you know, we lose some cutaneous fat and oftentimes we are. How many people drink enough water every day? You know, I think, you know, people are drinking so many things from coffee to sodas to energy drinks that are now caffeine is dehydrating them on top of everything else. So people aren't drinking enough water on top of not getting enough nutrition. And that leads to, you know, premature aging. Catechol oxidase, another cupro enzyme, very important in the synthesis of melanin. So melanin is very important in protecting us from the sun's harmful UV radiation. So copper can actually technically be used as a natural sunscreen. If your copper levels are high enough and you're making more melanin, you're protecting your skin from the UV radiation. Superoxide dismutase that I mentioned is zinc Copper sod, very important, most powerful antioxidant in the body, Cytochrome C oxidase. This is one that is so cool, and I never remember hearing about this in medical school, is do you remember that that electron transport chain that makes Energy Complex 4 of the electro of the electron transport chain in the mitochondria is magnesium and copper dependent. So if we've got low copper, we can't make energy. So cytochrome C oxidase is that enzyme, that cuproenzyme that supports ATP. A lot of people when they start adding copper into their diet as a supplement, notice a boost of energy. So not only are we increasing energy, but we're decreasing inflammation. The body is now moving more efficiently and we feel better. So between the decrease in inflammation and the increase in energy, we feel great. And now I mentioned essential amino acids. Copper is essential in the amine oxidases to break down the amino acids into their smallest forms. And there's at least eight major metabolic pathways that need the deamination in order to get those amino acids that our body so needs to make everything, all the proteins in our body.

Wow. So sounds like probably 90% of the population is deficient in copper. Right? You said 80% have have 2/3 of the required daily.

This most recent statistic I read was 81% has left get less than 2/3 of the RDI. And I would even argue that even upwards of 95, 96, 98% are deficient in copper. And now some people. How do you measure copper? That's another thing that people ask. And this is also a chicken versus egg question, which came first. A lot of times people will test slightly high copper in Their blood. Because you have inflammation, your body is releasing the copper, trying to circulate it to the source of inflammation in order to reduce the inflammation, in order to support those sods and the anti inflammatory and the antioxidant pathways. Oftentimes after somebody has a heart attack, their copper levels will test high. Copper is being sent into the blood, sent to the inflammation that's happening to repair. It's not that the copper caused the heart attack, which some people believe. It's the copper is responding to the inflammation of the heart attack.

Right. The firefighters do not cause the fire.

Exactly. Yeah. There's a correlation between a fire and firefighters, but the firefighters didn't cause it. And that's where a lot of MDs that just jump right into looking at the numbers. It's not about the numbers, it's about the interpretation of the numbers.

This is probably why some nutritional testing companies actually test intracellular minerals and antioxidants and all that. Looking at the blood levels.

Because testing blood levels, Testing blood levels tells you what's circulating the body, not what's actually in the cells being utilized.

Yeah. So sounds like everyone could benefit from, you know, getting some copper supplement. But are there any good food that people can take a lot off to actually get enough copper?

So we talked about the nutrition level and how it's been decreased in a lot of our foods. So the foods, let's start out with the foods. How many people eat organ meats every day? How about organ meats? Oysters, shellfish, whole grains, leafy greens, shiitake mushrooms, nuts, dark chocolate, bee pollen are all really high in copper. But even if you're getting enough of these, again, back to those digestive issues that we talked about, we actually only absorb from food about 30 to 40% of the copper that we're getting in our foods. So According to the FDA, the average American gets between 1.2 and 1.3 milligrams of copper in our diet, but we're only absorbing about 30 to 40%. That's what puts us down into that 4 to 500 microgram range when we're talking about copper in our bodies. Because all those GI issues now take into fact that. That all of our. How about people tell me all the time, oh, I eat enough leafy greens. I'm a vegan, I'm a vegetarian, I eat enough leafy greens. Well, you got to eat like five times, 10 times the amount that we did 50 years ago in order to get the nutrition from food. Fifty years ago, when some of the studies were done on the RDIs and what we needed. So our soils are so depleted. So it's really about that supplementation. Why do we supplement with. Why do we take multivitamins? Why do we supplement with everything? Because our food has become less and less nutritious. So by adding in that little bit of supplementation, adding in that little bit of sovereign copper that is easily absorbed in the correct forms, a little can go a long way when it's in the correct form, and that's very important.

So what's the best way to take the copper supplement? What time of day?

Copper taken on an empty stomach is great to get it in because you're going to start absorbing it into your blood system. But just by swallowing it, I love taking it and swishing it my mouth a little bit. Think about the. We talked about this with silver too. The mucosal associated pathways, mucosal associated lymph tissue in our body, as well as the capillary bed under your tongue. So swishing it a little bit, you're going to get immediate absorption. Once you swallow it into the lining of the stomach, into the lining of the intestine, you're going to continue absorption as at as it works through your body. But because of the form, because of the pure form, because of the small particle size, you're going to absorb it. That's again, why it's called a bioactive, because of the efficiency, the effectiveness that it has. So pretty amazing. So 1 tablespoon a day as a maintenance dose, taking it 2 tablespoons, 3 tablespoons a day is great to support, to get you closer to that rdi. And even above the rdi, we're actually working towards a professional copper that's going to be higher dosage for therapeutic dosing so that you can actually get those upper levels that we really are looking for for optimal health. Now, we recently we have come up with something, we call it the five by five protocol. So to boost your body, taking five doses of copper back to back. So one dose in your mouth for 30 seconds, swish it, swallow it, followed by another dose, swishing, swallowing it, do it five times in a row and you're getting immediate absorption, you're hyperloading your body with copper, so you're getting that extra copper that you've been missing. I just came back from a 4M in Las Vegas and it was a great show. But when we first got in there and started talking with people, friends of ours came up and one of these friends came up and she said, you know, my back is killing me. I don't know if I'm going to make it through the show. I'm being on my feet for three days. We did five doses standing there before the show even started. Five doses, stood there and talked to her for a while, did another five doses. So we did a five by five. So we did five twice and we.

Five? You mean five tablespoons?

Five tablespoons followed by another five tablespoons. Okay. And so within a 30 minute window we have done now 10 tablespoons of our copper. Her pain went from a seven out of 10 down to a five out of 10. She did another dose right before bed, another five. When we saw her the next morning she said she was at a 2 out of 10. So absolutely amazing how it can decrease that inflammation, but how quickly, like in a short time. I did it with another group that was there standing there and she was having shoulder pain. She did it right away. We did a five dose, we stood there, we talked to her for a little while and just within a short time she had better movement in her arm. So pretty amazing how quickly doing the correct form, dosing high to get up to those levels. So many people are so deficient and don't even realize it.

So do you think a person could have replenished the copper supply in their body to the point that that's going to last them for a while without taking any supplement or do they have to keep it up every day?

I think it's something that you need to take. Maybe not such a high dose all the time, but I think once you get there and you kind of replenish, think about like triage theory. Copper is going to go where it's most needed to sustain life first and then it's going to go to those anti inflammatory pathways, so it goes to those cuproenzymes where it's most needed and then it's going to go, we need some more antioxidant here, we need some better skin here. You know, we need that lysol oxidase, we need the cytochrome C oxidase, we need more melanin, but it wants to keep us alive first. So our bodies are very intelligent and supplements go where they're most needed first. Think about a vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D goes where it's most needed first, which isn't necessarily the immune system. Vitamin D at higher doses is great to support the immune system. So it's really about getting enough in but taking it more on a daily basis. And I really say consistency is the key. So it's about getting it daily and as an essential nutrient, according again, I'm going to talk FDA for a moment. FDA says that we eliminate up to 1.5 milligrams per day. So if we're only taking in 1.2 to 1.3, but eliminating up to 1.5 per day, that's why you got to take it constantly. That's why you got to eat those foods constantly in order to keep those copper levels up. Now, as. As recent as January of this year, I believe it was January 17th of 2023, EFSA, the European Food and Safety Authority, came out and said that humans eliminate up to 5 milligrams. So most recent research says that we eliminate as much as 5 milligrams as opposed to what the US FDA claims at 1.5 milligrams. So we are defining it, eliminating it faster than we're taking it in. So that's why supplementation is so important.

Could there be copper toxicity if taken too much?

Copper toxicity is something that we do hear about occasionally. And I remember back in medical school hearing all about Wilson's disease and how Wilson's disease and the Kaiser flesher rings and that we got to worry about copper toxicity. Also back when we were learning about this, we also. The other place that we get copper or used to get copper, was our water. Copper pipes in our houses. So a municipal water supply, copper coming through our water pipes. And we drank out of our tap water. But hardly anybody drinks their tap water anymore. It's bottled water. It's filtered water. So we're taking our copper out of our water. So that copper toxicity, the two places I've heard about it, is going to be Wilson's disease, which is a genetic predisposition or you cannot eliminate copper. So with Wilson's disease, you can't get rid of copper. So that's going to be where it could be dangerous. And again, during medical school, I actually talked to a couple doctors about this over the last few days. And they're like, I'm like, I've been in practice, you know, I've been doing medicine for 20 years. I've never seen a copper toxicity. I've never seen a Wilson's disease. I looked over to a friend, I'm like, have you ever seen Wilson's disease? He's like, yeah, every year. You know, when I take that test to re up a board or, you know, it's on a board exam, it's on a question that they have to take. They love the Rare stuff on board exams. That's where he sees it. It's. So it's not in practice.

Well, I did have a medical school classmate who had Wilson's disease. Yes, I guess it's not, you know, that uncommon, but.

Yeah, well, there's actually only about 36000 cases worldwide in a population of over 8 billion. So that's how rare it actually is. And I was taught in medical school to be worried about copper toxicity. The other place I'll mention that you can see a copper toxicity is a copper iud. So if a copper IUD has been implanted and been there for a long time now, you're getting the wrong. This person still needs copper for their cupro enzymes, but now they're absorbing again the wrong forms of copper from that copper IUD and can show signs of a copper toxicity.

I see. Yeah, fascinating.

So copper toxicity signs are things like hepatomegaly can happen, kidney issues, brain fog, even, you know, neurological swelling are all things that can happen from a copper toxicity. But again, they're relatively rare and it's more likely that 90 plus percent of the population is more likely deficient from the. We're not getting it from our foods like we used to.

And this copper product that you're. This sovereign silver has, is. Has been around since 2021, correct?

Yep.

It's only been a couple years.

Yep. Sovereign silver has been around since 1999. And then Sovereign copper, we are really serious about safe and effective when we produce something. So with I believe it was almost 14 years of research, we've been working on the copper to get it right, to make sure that it was the right form, the best absorbed. And we released it in November of 2021 and have been talking about it for the last couple of years.

So what kind of things have you clinicians noticed, you know, or people have reported? So anti inflammatory pain reduction.

Is a big one. Is a big one. With the, the case study that I talked about, so reducing the anemia inflammation is one of the biggest ones, the brain fog. Some people's brain fog goes away as you start supporting those pathways. Just blood in general is. It supports healthy blood so we actually require copper to clot properly. So everything dealing with red blood cells and typically when I'm talking about both silver and copper together, I say that, well, silver is really great for white blood cells supporting immune system copper is really great for the red blood cells and supporting the anti inflammatory pathways. So typically when I only have a few minutes to talk to somebody, that's where I go with it.

Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. So anything else about copper that you, you think we. We really need to know before we.

Well, I, I think it's so important in anything, like I, I said earlier, anything that moves. So think about bone and joint health, because what we're talking about here is the durability, flexibility, softness of our vessels, of our tissues. So it's all about that softness. Copper works with selenium for capillary bed integrity. Copper supports electrical conductivity. Think about copper wiring that's in our houses. Think about that energy and metabolism that I talked to. Copper also supports phase one liver detoxification. So we need copper to support our liver health as well. So where we're worried about, you know, copper toxicity can cause hepatomegaly, but small amounts consistently of copper actually support our liver detoxification and normal phase one detoxification.

Yeah. Wonderful. Well, now you've inspired me to make sure that I'm actually taking the copper that I have sitting on my shelf because I know it's good because sometimes you really need a reminder of how good it is and, and give you a little bit more. Why? So all the neural pathways are opening up and that's when I actually reach for the bottle.

Exactly. I mean, I've got it all over my house. And it's, it's funny that I. How sometimes I don't even think about taking it until, oh, wait, my elbow hurts a little bit. Oh, I should take a little bit of copper. Why don't I do it every day and prevent the pain? Why don't I just keep going and get my copper levels back up? And same with multivitamins. I forget to take things all the time. I think, you know, we just always, we get our busy lifestyles. We just need to take that time, even if it's just, you know, five or ten minutes a day to remember to breathe, remember to relax, remember to take the vitamins that are good for you. Think about maybe the food that you need to eat that day and even be thankful, be grace, you know, gracious for the things that we have and the ability to support our own health and our health sovereignty.

Yes. Well said. Okay. Yeah, so. And I want to mention to listeners, because sovereign silver is so kind to offer a discount to my listeners. Dr. Joy 20 that people can get a 20% off almost all products on site or there are bigger bottles, people can try the code. Dr. Joy. 10 to get 10% off those larger bottles. So I'm going to put those on the show. Note to, to get people, you know, to make it a little easier on people. I think the products are very reasonable in pricing, you know, looking at the health benefits. Just, yeah, very well trusted brand by all the healthcare, you know, all the functional anti aging healthcare providers. And yeah. So I'm really glad that we had this conversation because nobody knows much about Copper and that, you know, your company is, you know, charging ahead and actually bringing this to people and bringing a product that people can really trust. So I want to thank you for educating our listeners and for very helpful and informative episode.

Excellent. Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure. I always look forward to chatting with you.

Yeah, wonderful. Same here. Dr. Griffin, thank you.

Take care and stay well, stay healthy, take care of people out there.