"$11 trillion. Okay. I'll get it." How Dr. Yao Huang plans to Save The World & your Career!

You need a network. You can't just be a lone soul out in the universe. You need allies, you need friends.

What is the biggest source of methane?

Agriculture, cow emissions, coal. We need to build as many of these as possible, and it needs money.

Welcome to Driving Impact. Yeah, welcome to Driving Impact. We're so excited to have you today.

Oh, thanks for having me. This is great.

And it's been a time coming because you're— you've been an investor for more than 2 decades, and now you're sitting on the board of Carbon Optimum. Today I wanted to start and kick it off with a hard-hitting question. We just passed the 1.5 degrees Celsius, which is a temperature that we're not supposed to go beyond, and the target was supposed to be in 2030, but we just passed it now, which is not good news. Do you think we should— do you think we have chances of saving the world still?

We do. There's still hope, but we have to act fast. And I'm hopeful because this is the first time in almost 50 years people are actually doing things, meaning the industry, the banking sector, governments. There's one big thing we can do right away to make a huge impact, which is methane emissions. It is—

methane emissions.

It is way more potent and powerful than CO2. If we get rid of those, We can drop the heating of the planet a lot faster. Um, that comes from cows, it comes from oil and gas, uh, wells, it comes from a lot of places. In fact, we have satellite imaging of knowing exactly where they are, and if we can get rid of those, that's immediate help. The company I'm on the board of is also actively involved in cleaning major emitters from coal factories, steel factories, cement factories, waste, where they're burning garbage. We can remove all of those CO2 emissions and allow them to operate cleanly as we transition to renewable energy. And so we're working with lots of countries to do that, including the US.

So you're an optimist. You think we can still save the world if we move fast now? Okay. Okay. We're going to triple click on that.

Triple click.

Okay. So the first thing is, let's talk a little bit more about methane. So Google announced that they had created a map of all the methane emission. So you said that we can have— like, now we can map it. Were we able to map it before Google made this announcement? Was it something that was coming?

You can see it from the satellite. There's nonprofit organizations whose job is to track all of that. And so now it's industry's job to stop, plug, remove, anything you can do to stop this. And this is not just one country. This is a global effort. And it costs money. So it's not just a desire to want to do it. We need capital to back the solutions that actually work and are scalable and commercializable now.

So scalable, commercializable. So how much would it cost if, let's say, today we just woke up and it's like, okay, we're beyond 1.5 degrees. It was supposed to be in 2030, and now we're like in a state of little return or no return. But you're saying that we could still go back and fix our problem. But can you tell us more about methane versus carbon dioxide? Because the audience of Thriving Impact are normal people who want to be able to change the world, save the planet, but really figure out what are the baby steps we can do and also like advocate for the change that's needed on the planet.

Good question. I'll tell you more about methane. You brought up a really good point. What can we do? Yeah. So first, let me start with methane. Methane is 10 times more potent than CO2.

It's 10 times more potent?

It holds the heat a lot more.

Okay.

But it only lasts for 10 years. So if you stop, whatever is in the atmosphere will dissipate in 10 years and we'll be fine. Whereas CO2 stays in the atmosphere. There's over 200 gigatons worth of CO2 emissions that it's in the atmosphere from the last 100 years.

Yeah.

Of industrial existence.

Since the Industrial Revolution, there's been way more CO2.

Exactly.

Carbon dioxide. And that's the problem that's heating up the planet.

We have to stop what we're doing now.

Yeah.

So there's 40 gigatons a year just coming out from all our industry that has to stop, and then we have to remove what's up there.

Okay. Stopping what the current state of the CO2 And then because we're adding every year, so can we— we had to stop adding, stop adding and then remove and then remove.

That's two different solutions.

Yeah.

But then there's methane that's coming out as well. So these are greenhouse gases. Some are more potent than others. And all of that has to stop.

So what are the— what is the biggest source of methane?

Agriculture, cow emissions, coal. All the things I've mentioned before are all releasing this as well. And what's more important, you mentioned earlier, is that what can we do?

Yeah.

It's not us as consumers. I think the biggest misconception of the problem is that we as individuals can do something because the source of the problem comes from major industries.

Yeah.

If we stop making plastic bottles, we don't have to recycle the bottles. So what we can do is everyone who has a job in a major company, whether it be a bank, whether it be technology, agriculture, you need to advocate and move that corporation's goals forward in the right direction. It's what can you do in your job, not so much as what you can you do at your home, because that needle is very tiny. But if you can get Coca-Cola to stop making plastic bottles, bottles, that is way more than the 10 bottles you recycled in your garbage can.

I think it's super interesting because two other speakers that we asked on the topic were all going in, in the same direction. Uh, Stand.earth, sun.earth has a chart of all like how eco-friendly or planet-friendly are a couple of companies. And I was looking at that yesterday and they rated from A to D, F, and there was no A and there was one B minus. So I think what's important from what you said is that as individuals working for corporations, we can write letters, we can also vote, right, with our dollars, or even like tell them to—

more active. That's maybe, maybe years ago.

That would—

again, we passed 1.5. Yeah, the planet is heating, there's droughts, there's fires. California is on fire. There's countries with no food and water. People are fighting for water. This is dire.

OK.

There are— was it 2 years ago? There was $29 billion disasters in America. Entire towns are wiped out. We hit that number by September last year. This year, who knows? Maybe by summer. Billion-dollar disasters. It's not fazing anyone. And that's because the people who suffer are the poor.

Yeah.

And so it's more than writing letters now. You need to actively move the needle. Apple has made its watch the first sustainably made product, and they have active movement by 2030 to be completely carbon neutral in all its products. Can other companies do the same? There is a movement by many companies to remove Scope 3 emissions, Scope 2 emissions, but we could build more wind farms so that the country could be completely generated by renewable energy instead of by fossil fuel energy. Electric vehicles to move it off of burning fossil fuels. But then the source of electricity, which is coal, needs to be clean. And so most of our initiative is to clean the dirty emission.

Yeah.

As we transition to something more renewable and cleaner, we're basically moving from old technology of how our entire infrastructure is running to something clean and new.

It's a total transformation.

Takes a lot of time and energy.

So I think something that you said, like an employee, let's say I work for a big corporation that's heavily polluting, it's not about writing a letter, it's like going to the all hands, making demands directly to the leaders of the company such that the practices can change. Like talk about the Apple Watch, for example.

Or getting a job in these businesses as Chief Sustainability sustainability officer or that department to make movements and move it faster. I mean, I spend a lot of time with the chief sustainability officers of the entire fashion sector.

Yeah.

They don't want to do anything.

Do you think they're stifled?

But they're trying. I mean, they're starting to do things. And that's why I'm involved with a company that rebuilt the entire supply chain for apparel and textiles. And so it allows these big companies who have a lot more complexity in their supply chain to plug in and be sustainable immediately just by buying the products.

So is it Carbon Optimum that you're talking about?

No, it's Eco Fashion Corp.

Oh, never heard about this one.

What's the deal? The second most polluting problem in the world. First is coal. Second, textiles and apparel. The clothes we buy is made from cotton. The way that is made, the way it is produced, it's not clean. A lot of waste.

So the fashion industry is the second—

second most polluting.

So what could we do concretely? So we talk about the chief sustainability officers.

Don't buy fast fashion.

Okay.

I mean, if you want, as a consumer, your money counts. But I'm telling you, all of that is secondary to movements you can make at the larger scale.

Yeah.

So if you work in those companies, Stop. Stop.

Stop working there?

Stop making products that way.

Mm.

Right? So I just gave you a solution. Send your orders through this company. If you can't clean it, let someone who has do it for you.

Yeah.

Because you're not really in the business of making clothes anyway. You're in the business of designing clothes and selling clothes. But all of clothing has always been outsourced to the East.

Mm-hmm.

To China. And now it's moving to India and Vietnam. Because of political issues.

So basically, if you're part of that, you're being part of the problem. You're not helping us save the planet. So then removing yourself or going to work in industries or for companies are able to be— create more sustainable material is—

would be the action if you work in these places.

Yeah. And as a consumer, as a consumer, you can stop and really source companies who have sustainable—

stop buying all this stuff. Put your money, your investment money into the right places that are supportive. Recycling doesn't really work because it doesn't— the country doesn't have the recycling centers. So very few get recycled because the people who sold us that plastic can be recycled never gave the waste companies the recycling machines.

I mean, there's only 9% of all plastic that gets recycled.

It doesn't—

So even though you put it in the bin, like only 9% is going to be recycled. And then everything that's clothing, there's a lot of dumping of old clothes in different countries, among which in Africa. And there's—

we don't have to make plastic. There's other— that's really funny. Uh, Snapple used to be made from glass and they went to plastic. And this is just product, but the most important thing right now is CO2 emissions and methane emissions. If we had to prioritize the things that are going to be most devastating for the way we live, it's that. And so that's what I focus on. Yes, garbage and everything, they're also important, but I mean, we're in big trouble.

So we're in big trouble. Recently, a couple of years ago, you made a big shift. And for our audience, you're a venture capital investor, you're an investor, you also spent 20-plus years in tech, and you've invested in a company that's called Carbon Optimum. And you invested in the company, but you also decided to be on the board. So tell us a little bit more about— it's a big change, right— about your investment in Carbon Optimum. What do they do, and how are they solving some of the problems you're talking about?

After looking at so many companies and spending a lot of time diligencing, I I believe, along with others who have spent a lot of time in this sector, that this is the solution to clean. And I don't say that lightly. And it's because it actively takes the CO2 emissions from the major emitters— coal, steel, cement, anything you're burning emits CO2. It can pipe it into these tanks, stainless steel tanks that hold microalgae.

Okay.

So we're essentially growing a plant, and plants all absorb CO2.

Yeah.

So when we pipe the CO2 into the tank, the plants absorb it and it's gone. It breathes CO2 and it releases oxygen, and now the pollution is gone. And now we have— we're growing this plant inside this tank, and every day we empty the tank of this mush. It's called biomass.

Biomass. Yeah.

And this could be turned into useful things we all need. We need fertilizer. The world is actually short on fertilizer because of the Russian-Ukraine war. Russia makes most of the fertilizer. We can make fertilizer locally. We can produce food to feed all of Africa.

So from biomass we can produce food.

You can eat it. This is actually pharmaceutical grade biomass.

Okay.

Pharmaceutical-grade plants being grown inside a completely enclosed tank. We provide the CO2, the light, the nutrients, the water that allow this plant to grow. When you take it out, you dry it, it's fertilizer. You dry it, we can make food, we can make vitamins and nutrients. We can feed Africa with all of this, all locally done. We also produce carbon-negative crude oil.

Ooh, that's a game changer.

We can make energy.

So are you saying that with Carbon Optimum and the technology from the algae, you can actually create a new type of oil that's going to be carbon neutral?

Ironically, it's the same oil, the same oil as the oil that you put in the ground, because the, the oil from the ground essentially was made over billions of years of organic matter compressed with heat and pressure. Yeah, over a long period of time. I mean, we take it out. This is done the same exact way. It's organic matter. We apply heat and pressure and we're able to produce oil every day, every 24 hours.

So the normal oil that we're leveraging in people who are driving like gas-powered or oil-powered cars, you can create it?

Yes.

From algae?

Yes.

It's, it's a big deal.

It's a big deal.

Yeah. So I want to make sure I understand it. So you have a tank. Okay, let's say the tank is somewhere in the US, just for the sake of the exercise. You have algae in the tank, and then is algae pulling all the carbon dioxide from the air, or where is it pulling it from?

We pipe it in. So let's say there's a coal plant here, it's polluting. Through it, with a pipe, we pipe the CO2 into the tank. Algae, which is a plant, breathes the CO2, which then it's gone, just like you're breathing oxygen.

Yeah.

And it's gone. I need to give you more oxygen. So we put CO2 in the tank, the algae absorbs it, there's no more pollution, the plant now is useful, and we can turn it into food to feed lots of people. We turn it to fertilizer that is very nutrient-rich for the soil, and the farmers can get carbon credits because it's a carbon sink.

Mm, interesting.

And then we can make crude oil And we have certified tests to show that this is just like the oil from the ground. We then send it to the oil refinery, who then refines it, and we can make sustainable aviation fuel.

Incredible. So that could help with replacing the oil, old oil with the new oil. So then it could stop the emission.

What they're doing is they're mixing it. So they take the carbon positive oil and mix it with our carbon negative oil and have neutral. Then you have carbon neutral.

So it neutralizes it?

We create a situation by which it is carbon neutral in the accounting.

Are oil companies leveraging it right now?

We are working with some of the big— biggest oil companies.

So there's an interest right now in leveraging the technology from Carbon Optimum?

Of course. I tell people I make oil. It's of interest. The interesting thing now, what I found having spent time in the climate sector, is It's not about the solutions. The scientists have found a solution to every single climate issue and problem. It's about money. And this is one of the few companies I've seen that can clean the environment in a profitable way. So it makes sense for the financiers. It makes sense for the bankers. It makes sense for economies. So it doesn't become an expense where you're just building machines to suck and clean that this can actually produce revenue for a country, can have returns for the bankers who are investing, and through that this becomes sustainable, and through that becomes something of interest, and that's how you scale.

I think it's super interesting because when we look at climate, we'll always think about, okay, it's going to be expensive to put together all these structures, or even like the wind powers and all of this technology, and it's a cost and it doesn't look like a profit center. And what you're saying is with with the technology that you have and invested in, it's then become a profit center, but it also actually helps us stop carbon emission, and it replaces it with an oil that's going to mix with the traditional oil, is carbon neutral. So the biggest impact from this technology is to stop the emission, the net new emission. What about— it also impacts what is currently being produced, because you're saying that if we plug it into coral, it can just clean some of what's produced. So is it a double effect of like cleaning, stopping the emissions and replacing it with net new—

I mean, there's a lot of benefits because yes, it does clean whatever pollution is coming from the major emitters, coal being the biggest.

Yeah.

And then the secondary benefit is that we do need sustainable aviation fuel. We do need fertilizer. We do need these resources, and we're able to make it for everyone. And so it produces a form of cleaner energy.

It's interesting. And then what do you— where do you see this technology for 10 years from now? Because where is Carbon Optimum?

We're scaling. We're scaling globally through a number of countries. And hopefully in the next 10 years we can absorb all the emissions from coal at least. And we're also working with two of the largest cement conglomerates. So hopefully we can have all of that rolled out by then as well. So we'll have clean coal, clean cement that all the buildings are made out of, clean steel, which when we remove all the CO2 emissions from a steel plant and they sell steel, that's actually worth more. There's a lot of benefits to this, and there's a lot of places that we have to deploy. This is not just a US issue.

It's a global issue.

Every country, every country that has electricity is burning something to make it.

So how big is, is Carbon Optimum? How many employees? Because the question is like, how are you going to scale this?

So we scale it in partnership with the countries we work with. 90% of the employees are maintenance workers that keep the facility running, which allows us to hire very quickly and locally, create a lot of jobs in all these places.

And it seems like you're reskilling people because if it's a new skill of being able to maintain that type of facility.

We're partnered with the state of Kansas and we work with their— the government resource employment groups, with veteran groups. We're— we want to hire a lot of people.

And what is the skill necessary for a maintenance person?

We will train it.

Okay, so anybody could do it. So it creates—

willing and wanting.

Okay, so it creates economic opportunities for the people where the, the tanks are going to be located. Yes, U.S. and globally as well. So it creates new jobs.

We have a lot of scientists on board, and their job is to grow and maintain the algae that is there. But what's great is that The entire facility is automated. All the tanks are built so that are exactly the same.

Okay.

In composition. And we use machines to automate the whole facility.

It's incredible.

Like, it allows for consistency of product.

Yeah. And is it automation and AI? You know, AI is a buzzword.

You could sprinkle AI if you like, but it's mostly just automation.

Okay. It's pure hard automation.

Just making the machines spin at the same time. Empty at the same time.

And what if people want to help? Because everybody's trying to look at a solution, but sometimes when you go in the world of climate, it becomes very complicated. Is there something that normal individuals can do to help?

We need to build as many of these as possible, and it needs money. So we're looking for more money to put up more facilities all over the place. Um, and then as we scale, we'll be hiring people you know, introductions to relevant folks who are passionate about this, who want to do something. It's going to take trillions of dollars to solve this problem.

So you see, trillions of dollars. Yes. So you're just like Sam Altman wants like a couple of trillions for AI, you want a couple of trillions for climate change.

I mean, we're— if we don't fix the globe issue, there will be no humans left. So I guess we'll need AI.

Yeah.

Wow, priorities here, priorities, priorities.

It's, it seems like a big problem to solve. I mean, you're one woman, it's one company, right? And I care about the planet, so I'm just curious to figure out like how can we scale this in a way, and how can people help scale this? How can we like share it? Should we go on the Carbon Optimum website and, and submit interest, or—

it's not about thumbs up and likes. This is a serious problem. We We need capital. We need money to build more facilities. So the smallest one is about $9 million. We have facilities going up that's $150 million. That's $1 billion. And we have— we have money. We need more. And we are partnered with groups in many countries. We're not alone. There are interested parties. We're working with governments. We're working with prime ministers. We're working with— bankers and corporations. There's help, but it is a dire problem. If I had all the time in the world, I would say I'm fine. Yeah, but apparently the scientists have said 1.5 was the point of no return, and we crossed it. Yeah, and I was at COP, and they said not only are we gonna pass 1.5— and this was back in November— we're gonna hit 3.

3 degrees in 2024, in some time in the future.

It might even be sooner. Who knows? But I can't predict what is going to happen. But I know nothing is stopping.

So we have an urgent problem. There are a couple of solutions, one of them being Carbon Optimum and, and the kind of investment you're looking for. Who would be the people who would have this kind of investment?

Project finance bankers. Foundations, family offices, pools of individuals can pool money. We can turn these on. Every tank counts. Every tank is equivalent to planting 60 trees. This is a plant. It just grows really fast.

Yeah.

And we're containing it in high density so that we can effectively remove the CO2 that we are creating.

Yeah, that we've created throughout the past centuries. Yeah, I think it's important. So let's talk a bit more about COP28 because you were attending the conference in Dubai a couple of months ago. Like, what were the big takeaways on your side in terms of— were there any positive outcomes that you're proud of?

You know, there's a really interesting chart that's been floating around the internet. Yeah, they— it's, I don't know, the last 40, 50 years of convenings the first climate convening, the Paris Agreement, the Kyoto, Glasgow, all throughout all these years, every— they get together, the whole world, and they decide to do something. So they have marked this on the axis, and then they show the amount of temperature increases every year. And it doesn't look like a stock market where it goes ups and downs. This is straight up.

Straight up.

Okay. So they've done nothing.

And so this is basically what you're saying is the impact of these convenings is not strong enough data to turn around the climate.

Yeah. It's a meeting of semantics. They fight, they argue, they're having a lot of like heated meetings. Everyone's running around very busy to figure out what words they need to say about the agreement they're about to sign that doesn't really have any teeth to force anyone to do anything. In fact, the only country that's going to hit the mark is China.

Wow.

Because they do what they say. Maybe it's cultural, maybe it's the size of the country, maybe they understand, maybe they have logic. I have no idea, but they're doing things.

So China is able to deliver on the agreed upon climate goals.

They're going to deliver on their goals. Of reducing emissions.

What about the United States?

I don't know. I don't see anything. We're trying. In fact, we're getting more support from Republicans than we are from Democrats.

Mm. How do you explain that?

Because they work together.

And also they're backed by a lot of different oil companies.

Oil and gas and Republicans are really helpful. Because they get it and they can take action. We are past the point of talking. We can create jobs. We can create— we can increase GDP. We can clean. We can do all these things in a very practical way, and we can have facilities up and running in 30 days.

So with Carbon Optimum, you can get a tank and a facility up and running in 30 days?

It's just tanks. It's not complex. There's not a lot of moving parts. We can have things up and running and you can see things being cleaned. We do need a year to grow. We need one grow year.

So you need to grow the algae.

We do need to grow all the algae. It's going to take a year, but it's sucking up CO2. The minute we put one tank down, it is doing it. And even better, I have sensors in the tank so I can tell you in real time the amount of CO2 that's being removed.

Hmm. How much can you remove in a year, for example?

It depends on the amount of tanks.

Yeah.

So with each tank, I'll tell you the facilities we have. We have a facility removing 2 million tons of CO2 with 600 of these tanks. Mm-hmm.

A year.

A year.

So 6 million tons.

2 million tons.

2 million tons.

600 tanks.

Okay.

We have another one that's smaller, 250,000 tons. Small cement factory can be removed with 100 tanks. Those 100 tanks can be set up in a month on a little over 1 acre of land.

Okay.

And it could produce enough crude oil to sustain that country.

And then each tank, you said it was $9 million to create it, to put—

uh, depends on the facility size. So the 100-tank project's about $40 million. The 600-tank project's about like $180 million. We have ones that are larger, 13 million ton removal, they're probably around $2 billion, just different sizes. But this, but it is in the scope of things not that expensive, especially because we will be able to maintain the facility year over year.

Yeah, so it's the start, it's the startup cost of the facility.

You need one year's worth of expenses covered, and then we can pay ongoing.

So if your wildest dream would happen, right, and somebody said, how much money do you need?

Yeah, $11 trillion. Okay, I'll get it.

So you need $11 trillion?

Yes, it'll take time, but we'll get it.

How long do you think it's going to take you?

I'll have a better guess of it After this next year, it's— things are moving really fast.

It's exciting.

We have a lot of interest. This is the first year in the last, I would say, 6 months, uh, industry and governments are really wanting to do something, and it's being led by Europe. Europe is using a stick approach. The U.S. is using a carrot approach. Different approaches. So it's like, oh, if you could do this, they are fining with taxes and fines, uh, industries that are polluting and imports that come to Europe that have a footprint as well. And so they're fining hundreds of millions and billions of dollars to corporations and countries, and that's making a difference. That's making industries want to clean, because if they don't, they're going to have to pay. If you want to import into Europe, you're gonna pay. If you are growing things or have cement factories or producing things, and you're going to pay. So Europe is—

the European approach is very protectionist. So they're gonna fine you if you're creating or you're polluting.

Yes, and then adding the cost of this pollution into the product because someone has to clean it. Yeah, and it's not fair that they do. So they're just adding it in.

So it's creating a bit more responsibility for the businesses that want to do business in that country.

The US has the IRA bill that Biden passed, and there's billions of dollars being put into funding solutions and industries that are trying to do something. So they're using capital to push innovation forward. Yeah, it's a different approach.

It's a different approach because it doesn't also guarantee results. I mean, None of these. There's a stick. The stick is like, if you want to do this and you're actually polluting—

Europe is leading the world in moving the needle right now. Oh, because of that, companies want to be clean because they don't want to pay the fine.

So that's working. So it seems like what they're doing—

thing that's pushing it is—

so the stick approach for climate seems to work.

It seems to work.

And then China is able to self-regulate and hit their goals. And then the rest—

Because they know it's bad. We all know it's bad. Maybe we're just not incentivized to do it. But China wants to clean. Also, they know if you go to Beijing, these big cities, the coal emissions literally smog up the city.

Yeah, people are wearing masks.

They've diverted flights. You can't land.

Yeah.

As if it's bad weather. That's how bad, thick it is.

Yeah. It's so hard. It's not good for you.

Killing us.

Yeah, I think it's important, right? So if we don't fix it, we might not have this conversation 30 years from now. So it's an important problem to solve. There's a couple of solutions. Seems that you bring an interesting solution to the problem. Now let's say you need $11 trillion. Yeah, so we'll regroup in a year from now and see where you are.

What's in your purse?

I don't know, I have a couple of pennies. So basically, I want to bet like Sam Altman, Yao Wang, who's going to get the trillions first. But we'll see.

I think plenty of money in this world. Yeah, everyone can have some.

There's a lot of like billionaires looking to also divest some of their money. I think it's interesting. Let's go back to algae.

Sure.

Because it's been deemed that it's 15 to 300 times— it grows faster than other terrestrial plants. So how did you stumble upon the power of algae for climate.

It is one of the most well-studied organisms. You talk to any biologist, they all know this.

Okay, so people have known it forever.

Hundreds of papers and research. It's so well studied. It grows really fast. Yes. It's not that I discovered it. Scientists have known about this. They just don't speak up, you know. And by the way, scientists have been yelling about the climate. No one listens to them. They don't, they don't communicate in a way that captivates or stirs up. Once there's a fire, then I told you there was a fire coming, and then once you feel the fire, then maybe you'll listen, but that's too late.

And so this— I think the world is a bit more interested in following like Travis and, um, what's her name? Taylor Swift. Taylor. I'm just laughing.

If Taylor Swift talked about algae, we'd be done.

Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's love story than actually saving the planet. It's because it's an entertainment.

We've desensitized to it.

But also the climate people have made it very complicated. The scientists are communicating so many numbers and half of the planet is like, what are we talking about?

We try to be positive. There's a lot of activists and I understand what they're doing, but it's no more— there's no more time for complaining and yelling. We've got to all act now.

Okay.

It's due time.

So let's talk a little bit more about algae then and its power.

So I didn't discover this. This company I invested in, joined in on the board. They've been researching how to grow this really fast and in high volume for the last 10 years. They had a pilot plant that was super effective. It's all been documented and certified. Al Jazeera came and did a whole documentary on— like, it's all there. And They're the ones who had the patience. I came in at the end to help with the money.

Yeah, because you founded the Atrii and it's a venture collaboration organization.

So what happened during the pandemic, we had a lot of time, so I was reading books.

Yeah, you couldn't go out. It was the end of the world.

I know. So I was reading Bill Gates' book on climate and that's the pivotal moment. It was a major shift for me. I gave up entire career in tech and committed myself to solving this problem. I'm going to do something about this.

Wow. So you had a wake-up call during the pandemic.

If I'm going to go down, if I'm going to die, I want to say at least I tried and did something. I'm not going to sit around watching Netflix all day. And so I actively immersed myself with knowledge, taking classes, reading books, talking to experts. I reached out to my entire network to say, send me climate I looked at climate deals in every sector from energy to nature-based to all sorts of things, and it's too overwhelming. So I picked a lane. I said, I want to find something that will remove the CO2 problem.

Mm-hmm.

So I kept on looking, and then I just focused and looked, and I found this company. I spent time and had diligence, and I asked the questions. I did the modeling. And it just kept on checking all the boxes. I was like, this is perfect. Let's do it. I don't want to spray and pray, which is what a lot of investors do. It's like, all right, I'm not going to pick a sector. I'm just going to bet on 12 companies because I don't want—

yeah, I don't understand.

I don't know what's going to make it. Instead, this one has— it has the foundational research. It's done it all. It's not new. This is not a startup, right? And it's ready, it's ready to commercialize, and it's been proven all the things work. It's all been documented, SGS certified. I want to find solutions for problems. This is one.

Yeah.

Carbon emissions, 40% from coal, clean coal. Found this answer. Push it hard. Clean it. I don't need to bet on 20 different companies.

You want to go deep in the area.

Pick the one, push it, clean it. Be focused and intentional. And then the second most polluting is textiles and apparel. Eco Fashion Corp will do it. And all the major brands are falling in place. These are not young entrepreneurs. These are seasoned, multiple companies in their background. They have pedigree. They have the ability to call into the sector and make things happen. These are senior people. So that's the next one. And then I'm going to go down the line looking at other pollutions and find solutions and push it through and be intentional and focused and drive money to the right places and actually do something.

I love the internet and intentionality and the focus. I think it's amazing. So first, carbon. Second, fashion. Third, it's 2BD.

I think it's going to be PFAS.

What is that?

Forever chemicals.

You call them PFAS? PFAS.

That's the acronym.

PFAS. Okay.

Basically, it's inside all of us right now.

So from the products that we—

Yes. Anything that is like Gore-Tex, water resistance.

Yeah.

Our pans that resist and, you know, what do you call it? You don't need to add oil.

Teflon.

Yeah, yeah, all that stuff.

Yeah.

It's in the water system.

Nonstick, nonstick pans.

All the nonstick stuff.

And gets in our bodies.

It's in our bodies now. And they haven't found a person that doesn't have it.

Wow.

The only way you can get rid of it is to donate blood and make new blood.

Okay.

It's bad. Yeah. Actually, the sprays you'd use to put fires, all this stuff, it's in, it's everywhere.

It's everywhere. Because we, when we created, like when we went through the Industrial Revolution, we just found a bunch of solutions, but we didn't know what the impact was.

Exactly.

So, okay, let's talk.

We could be smarter now.

Yeah, we're smarter. We have an opportunity to reinvent the world. First by stopping the decline of the world, and secondly, creating more sustainable solutions. I love where you're going. I think let's talk a little bit more about the carbon lane that you've chosen, because that's the lane of today. You talk about the fact that a lot of climate solutions are a pure cost center and not a profit center. I want to understand, how is, is Carbon Optimum a potential profit center that doesn't scare investors?

Uh, investors aren't scared. I'm trying not scare existing industries as well. So the way we do is we work with everyone.

Okay.

We make money through the commodities that we create. We create fertilizer, we have contracts for those. We create nutraceutical items like omega-3, um, food. We work with the biggest food companies, and 25 grams of this microalgae is all the nutrients your body needs for the day.

That's amazing.

You can use it to feed the food insecure, the malnutrition people dying of starvation. Give them this and they get to live. Yeah, we make carbon-negative crude oil. These are things that the world is constantly buying.

Those are products that are high in demand and it's a high necessity. So what you're saying is that companies would want to buy this to be able to fulfill some of the current needs that they have, and that's part of the solution of the future.

High demand. There's not enough fertilizer in the world. And when was the last time you saw a country turn away oil, right? So, and by the way, not even just oil. We use this to make sustainable aviation fuel. The aviation industry needs 3 billion barrels. If you took all of the sustainable aviation fuel right now, it will power Delta Airline for one day.

Wow.

There isn't enough. They need more. We can do it.

And people are flying all over the planet, so it's necessary.

Instead of Instead of filling all of Iowa with corn to then plant with fertilizer, pesticides, water, sun, and then take it and turn it to oil to fly your plane, I can do it in a tank.

That's incredible.

And I don't even need that much water. We recycle the water back into the tank.

Mm-hmm. I love it. I just love how you found an opportunity that scientists has cracked and then solving multiple problems in one single shot. Let's talk a bit more about eco-fashion.

Sure.

Love fashion. How do we become a bit more like sustainable fashion? What is eco-fashion is doing to be able to solve some of the problems? Because I don't even know what I'm wearing of how much— how bad it is or how good it is.

Cotton is the worst. It takes up so much water. It kills the land. They have the largest regenerative farm in India with over a million farmers. And what they've done is they said, okay, we're gonna buy all the cotton you make. That's done. They're happy, they're safe, they have sustainable ways of making it, no child labor, all the good things. Because they set the rules. And they get to set the rules because they're buying the product. Money runs this world, right? Then they work with a bunch of manufacturers. These manufacturers have agreed to make the clothing a certain way, sustainably. Why? Because they have the contracts. So they get contracts from the major Costco, Walmart, Target, all these companies, they buy things. They submit orders. So instead of submitting an order through one channel, they could submit it through Eco Fashion. Eco Fashion then has the entire supply chain, which is also completely blockchain. Wow. You can, you can monitor every step of the way so that the board, the marketing team, and the procurement group can meet their compliance requirements.

That's incredible. Okay. Money runs this world. I'm going to go back to what you said. Money runs the world.

It does.

And then what Eco Fashion did is going straight to become the biggest customer of the cotton farms.

Of each step.

Each step of the supply chain.

Yes.

Let's say I have a trillion dollars. I decide to own the supply chain and I set the rules. So that's what they did. They set the rules for fashion.

They set the rules in the supply chain and measure it because they control each step. And at the end of the step is the contract to make t-shirts, sweaters, blankets, pillowcases, whatever, textiles. So the order comes through. No one in the West makes anything. They send it to the East.

Okay.

And now they send it to the supply chain. Which will make it a certain way. And where do they get their goods? From the Regen farm. So they, they own the entire chain of events and the whole thing is tracked, which is what the West has been trying to do. They can't do it because the farmer may not know how to read. They don't have time to check a check— your clipboard of checkboxes. They use technology to automate all of the compliance. And so it becomes very easy for Target to have the things they need. All they have to do is send the order through.

So big companies are able to benefit from that sustainable fashion supply chain?

Yes.

Because of Eco Fashion. So where are they based? Where are they coming from? Who are these people?

Philly.

Philadelphia? An hour and a half from you in New York.

I know. They also Wonder Woman.

No, they're female-founded company.

Female-founded company.

Oh, it's incredible.

I know.

It's incredible. So female-founded company, eco-fashion, found a way to take over— and I take over— to turn around the trajectory of fashion to make it better.

Veteran in the industry, 30-year CEO.

Wow.

Wow. Knows everybody.

That's incredible. And then how is it driving impact in the world? Because they did that, and then are all the big corporations—

They're starting. They need time.

So what do they need? Time? And other than that?

They need Actually, they have a— they have— I think they have a round open as well.

Oh, you mean the round is open?

Yeah, they have a round open. Corporations, if you work in a fashion company, send your orders through. Order from Eco Fashion. You'll be sustainable. Prices are good. No one's— no child labor. Everything's clean. It's all good. They're doing everything right. And they're the only company that has the certificate to reimport back into China.

So what is the certificate?

So 40% of fashion goods are actually sold in China. You need certificate, sustainability certificate. No one has it.

So Eco Fashion is a sustainability certificate.

That's how good they are.

Wow. And that's how they're impacting the world. And right now they're raising money to be able to do more of that.

Yeah, because companies need to grow. Yeah, and they need more to happen. You gotta push it.

Yeah, but also there needs to be more demand.

They have it. I don't know how much of this I can announce. I'll say some things, we'll decide we can cut it or not. They have A-list celebrities in LA backing them.

Really?

The largest t-shirt company for every concert. So Billie Eilish wanted to be sustainable, push the t-shirt, all the swag, all the merch goes through one company in the US. Every concert goes to one company. They're sending all their orders into eco fashion.

Wow.

Industry knows this. It's moving. Consumers may not, but you're gonna start getting products that are made completely sustainable.

That's incredible.

It's happening. It's just happening.

It's exciting.

I know.

I think it's just how to change the old way of doing things. It takes— it's interesting. It takes a company to be able to change the game.

This gets me up every morning. This is way better than tech.

Yeah, yeah, because it gets to get— I have a son and he's 4, so in 30 years he's going to be 34. And the big question is like, what is the world going to look like? Is he going to be walking with like a mask full-time?

More people need to be involved. You need to get into sustainability, climate, green, agriculture. They need to go into the companies they work into and make change. And yes, as individuals, but that needle is moving so slowly.

Yeah, so to be able to influence some of the biggest corporations—

I think that's a handful of companies affect this planet.

There's 25. One of our guests say there's 25 companies, 25 CEOs, right? It's not a lot of investment.

Imagine if Coca-Cola just stopped making plastic bottles. Boom, problem solved.

Yeah, but also all the water companies. Than have—

they— the commercial industry kind of owns all the water now. We've let them take it.

I think what's interesting— yeah, it's— what's interesting on the non-corporate side is I'm from Quebec, Montreal. I went there during the holidays, and then I was buying some product, and, and I said— and they said, do you want a bag? I said, "Yes." And I was expecting— I live in LA— paper or plastic. And they said, "Well, you have to buy one." Like, what do you mean? It's like, "It's 99 cents. If you want a bag, you have to buy a bag." I said, "What do you mean?" They said, "Well, we're not legally— we're not allowed to give any bags here, plastic bags especially." So I was like, "Yeah, I'm just gonna buy the 99 cents one." And I— that's what I bought. And I was just like, "Oh, a small place like Quebec can make the change. It's possible to do it around the world." And there's other places in in the world that have the same policy.

There's countries in Africa who said no more single-use plastic.

Yeah.

Because they have— they do not have the money to deal with all the waste. So their government can make mandates if they want to.

Yeah. If the governments want to, they could decide no more plastic.

It's not going to hurt us that bad if we don't have plastic.

It's probably the relationships between the government and the lobbies that's sub them.

So you carry a water bottle around?

That's what I do now. Yeah. It's behavior.

And that's just one thing.

A small thing that any individual can do.

It's many things. But they can just make— we don't need to get the plastic bag. We can bring our own. Yeah. Taiwan has a city that has gone zero waste. So if you go to a food— a restaurant and you want to do takeout, you bring your own container.

Oh.

Things like that. They collect the oil they use for cooking and they use it to make biofuel for their government trucks. They've just found a way to include— and this is a small little town— yeah, to say we're no waste, no garbage, zero garbage.

I mean, everything is possible when there's dedicated commitment but also backed by actions. So I think that's the learning. I want to talk a little bit more because we haven't had a chance to talk a little bit more about The Hatchery, which is a venture organization that you founded. And when we talked about it, you said that it's a different model, right? It's a different model than the models that other venture type of companies are. Can you tell us more about how The Hatchery was organized?

So it was the beginning, the epicenter of tech for New York. And what was different about it was that we were very direct, honest, New York-style feedback.

Direct.

You know me.

It could be ruthless.

No filter. No filter. But you know what? We did that to a number of companies and we thought they were gonna kill us, but the companies, CEOs were like, thank you, you're the first one who's told me these things so I can actually change and be effective. If something is wrong, you fix it. You have to tell them. You can't cuddle them. But oftentimes people are very polite. And the other thing is that, and this was very New York, which was closed off, no sharing. If I have something, I would never share it with you, that kind of mentality. So we changed it by just making everything available so people didn't have to reinvent the wheel in knowledge and education, so that I would share the investor network, which at the time, remember, this was like early days of tech.

So it was the 2000s.

There is no— yeah, there's no websites for these groups. This was flip phone days. Oh wow. So we shared, we made things open, we made things transparent, we built community so that everyone can build better companies. And that was different.

Are you talking about like opening like the business model and sharing it with everyone?

Um, showing— so what happened was that there was a lot of reinventing the wheel. So if you failed, then the next 10 people behind you would fail the exact same way.

Yeah.

So instead of that, how about I just show you what was going wrong? Let's make sure that you are educated. This is before there were even entrepreneur programs out in the world.

It was before the Lean Startup movement.

Before all of those things, we were there. Now I am really involved in serving the underdog, the women and minorities, and I am very anti venture capital for those groups because only 2% of the capital goes to women, less to minorities. It's only slipped to be less than that post-pandemic.

So it's gotten worse.

It's gotten worse. It's not going to get better in my lifetime.

Even if you double the amount, if you go to 4%, and even if there's like more like women of color who become venture capitalists, it's not enough.

It's not moving the needle.

Fast enough.

With me, I want to see something before I die. It's not gonna happen before I die. So here's another thing: only 2% of companies even get venture funding. There's 98% of companies sitting around. Everyone's fighting around these 2% trying to get more capital for what? Okay, great. So even if you got it to 50%, that's only representative of 2% of companies.

So there's a lot— there's a big plate of companies that you're fighting for.

Like, there's 2 people here, 98 people here. You're trying to make sure these 2 people get what they need. There's 98 people also need, but they're not fulfilling the requirements of what makes something venture-backable. Venture-backable needs a huge scale. They're looking for exits. This is different formula for that. But this is where maybe you have an HVAC company, maybe you made a food product like oatmeal, or maybe you made a new snack bar, you made a little sock for your puppies, and but you made a million dollars last year, right? Not venture-backable. And, you know, unfortunately, if you're a woman or a person of color, the banks may not give you money. They may not look at you the same way. You may get higher interest rates or lower loans, whatever. There's just— things are less available. And so I want to serve this group.

So you want to serve women and minorities that are underserved in terms of finding the right investor.

They're still doing great work.

Yeah.

But because of gender and race, there's disadvantage and bias. Yes. Now what's interesting is—

it's bias, but there's also network.

There's lots of— there's lots of good companies here. And what shows me that you're a good company is if you can get a transaction, you can get a contract. So let's say you make a cookie. Like, who cares? This is so boring. But oh my god, she sold $2 million as a cookie last year, and Whole Foods is giving her a contract, and maybe Burger King wants to buy the cookies as an extra snack. You get a contract, they're not gonna pay you. You have to deliver the cookies before they will pay you.

Yeah.

So then you give me your contract and I'll finance against it. It's called purchase order financing.

Purchase order financing. And that's what The Hatchery does.

So we're— we have a fund that does that.

Okay, so that was— is that your investment thesis or is it the—

That's my investment thesis of supporting the masses using purchase order financing or debt. Versus venture capital and equity, which is way more expensive.

And to be able to do those purchase orders financing, do you raise money from other people? Okay, so you raise money from other people, and then you look at the 98% of companies that are maybe not necessarily the venture types, but there are other very good business models and businesses, and that's how you, you lend them the money. For how long?

Depends on the contract. The contract, 30 days, 90 days, short. Okay, they pay back and we lend again.

And you've done that for 20 years?

No, just last couple years. I've been enlightened only recently.

So COVID has brought the enlightenment to the planet.

Sit and think about it a little bit. It's like, oh, the numbers don't really work. Like pushing a rock up a hill, and then you have to stop. But most of where I take things, why my life has been so all over the place, is because I'm curious. I will— just because something's been done the same way all the time doesn't mean you keep doing it.

No.

If you want change, you have to be open-minded. You have to look elsewhere, and you have to create these things. They don't just come and exist.

You have to find— you have to seek them. You have to find that— you have to create new models. So I really love how you keep being introspective but also you're a seeker of difference, of figuring out different ways to be able to solve a problem. One of which was for climate and environment, which was accelerated during COVID And then the other one, which the new, the reinvention of the artistry. I think it's super interesting. And the third area that I thought is fascinating is where I met you actually, which is the Wonder Woman dinners.

Yeah.

And one of my friends, I moved to LA in 2019, 2019, end of 2018, not clear. But I moved to LA and then I was pregnant and then I met a woman. I invited her at the office and we had lunch and she's like, "Oh, I think you should go to Wonder Woman dinners." I said, "What is it?" "It's a great community of women." And I'm like, "Okay, when are you going?" She's like, "I'm not going, but you should go." And that's how I went to my first one. And then I made amazing friends and really a community of kindred souls. So thank you for creating that.

[Speaker:GARY] You're welcome.

[Speaker:SHANNON] Can you tell us more about what it is? For the non-initiated, the people who are not part of the lucky Wonder Woman tribe that you're part of?

It's a whisper network. Everyone's invited. It's a curated table of invite-only guests of amazing women doing amazing things. You're like, wow, that's badass. If you hear their story, like, wow, badass. But it's done through fun and laughter and friendship as the foundation of the relationship building. And once you set that foundation, then you can add other things on top. This is not a place of handshakes and business cards.

No.

And transactions. Yes, yes, we do support each other. Yes, many have gone together and built companies. Yes, we funded each other. Yes, we support each other getting jobs. All the things. Yes, yes, yes. But you don't start by asking. You start by making a friend.

Yeah.

And then that actually can last 10 years, 20 years. This thing has been going on. This is the 18th year we've been running these. It's in 30 cities. There's 10,000 women. We all support each other. It's basically what the boys have had on the golf course, in the Scotch rooms, in the strip clubs. We just do it over rosé, a nice meal, a lot of laughing and opening and very intimate, authentic sharing. And that's what bonds. And it's through the bond of friendship that women support and rise. And that's what this has done through the breaking of bread.

It's incredible. I met a lot of good friends in the community, and also it's also like very open, authentic, and transparent. People are open to being silly, so I love it.

Yeah, they have a good time.

Yeah.

Who wants to go to something boring with a bunch of suits? We have a good time. We eat, we drink, we laugh, we go do other things together like friends, the definition of friendship. Mm-hmm. And then we go kick some ass. We go do amazing things together. We change the world together. We support each other. And I have loved this supportive network of friends. I have friends in all these cities. And honestly, anytime someone asks, hey, I need XYZ, I need something, I need to be introduced, I just throw into the network, it comes back within 5 minutes, and here you go. Yeah, super powerful.

I love the community. I've traveled with so of them, break broken bread. It's amazing. It's very powerful. I think what's super interesting is that the way men do business. And I had a guest here last weekend, and I asked, how were you able to raise $6 million without a degree and without any business? And he's like, it's all about your network.

Yeah.

And basically what he said— he was a white man— he said, I was in that room because I knew someone who knew that billionaire, and that's how I got the funding. And to change around, you talked about the fact that there's only 2% of women who are getting the funding from venture capital investors, right? This guy got access. So what do you think is needed for women to get a bit more access to some— what is the capital, the network, the career acceleration, or breaking the ceiling?

I said this to someone also during the pandemic, because I feel like the pandemic was a very pivotal moment in time. During the pandemic, everyone was locked in. Yeah, you don't go out and have coffee with people anymore. Literally, the world froze. And so your network froze. Yeah, whatever you went into the pandemic with is what you had. Yeah, you don't get to make more new things. Whatever you have is whatever you have. So if you sat at your desk making no friends, eating your sandwich all day, isolated, and then you went into the pandemic, and then you lost your job, no one's helping you.

No.

If you spent all that time making friends and maintaining friends, not just meeting them one time, grabbing their credit card, business card, you spend time with them, you go on vacation with them, you grab coffee with them. It's the consistent. Everyone has a friend. You know what a friend is. You don't need me to define that for you.

Yeah.

Okay.

Someone to call when you want to cry.

All those things you build through many people. Was it 5 people? Was it 100 people? Was it 1,000 people? If you have that and you went into a frozen state of the pandemic and then something happened to you and you need help, you have someone to call.

Yeah.

That's what this is. That's what they need. Women need to, if they want to get ahead, build a network of support authentically and it will be there.

So tell us, how big is the community now, 18 years later?

We're over 10,000 women.

10,000 women across the US. So what is the scope?

North America, Europe, Asia.

Mm-hmm.

It's a lot.

I didn't know you had Europe. Mm-hmm.

London's a very powerful group.

Maybe we could start Africa because I'm gonna be there in March. We can talk. Exciting. I want to talk a bit more about you because you seem like you're fearless from the day that I met to now, 5 years later. I want to hear about your story. Did you face any challenges as a woman Right. But also a woman investor and in your career.

Of course. Of course. And funny enough, I started in high school as a shy, quiet girl in the back of the class.

No way.

Yeah.

No way.

I know you see me out there dancing.

So the dancing is one thing, but the yelling is another.

Very quiet.

Yeah. What happened?

I call it the transition by acquiring more freedoms.

Mm-hmm.

So as I leave my parents' house, I have now personal freedom. As you acquire knowledge and finish college and I get a job, I have financial freedom.

Mm-hmm.

And then I left corporate to start my tech company in the early days of tech, and that just opens more freedom— freedom of time, freedom— all these freedoms. There's layers and layers of freedom, and you feel it. As you get more, you gain strength.

Mm.

And you have to be brave enough to do these things, to let go, because they're not the sta— none of this is standard. None of my path is standard. And eventually I even gained freedom from the ladder we were taught to climb and the definition of success the world has given us. Once I let that go, ultimate freedom. Can you tell me more?

Can you talk more about the path of like just— you followed initially, you followed what your parents wanted you to do.

I did everything according to the Tiger Mom checklist.

Oh, that list. Oh my goodness. So you followed the Tiger Mom checklist and then what happened?

To the T. I accomplished everything. I am the good daughter who did it all.

So big job, money, all the things, stability, and then what happened?

I even checked the American Dream checkbox early.

What was that?

Within a few years. What? Car, vacation, house, all the things, right? Lots of spending, right?

It didn't fill your cup?

I had a great time. It was fun, but it lacked meaning. So I was bored.

Mm.

Every time I get bored, I want change.

Yeah.

I just can't sit there. Had I sat there, I would have had a very cushy life. Plenty of money. Everyone thinks about money. Money is not the only thing.

It's freedom.

Well, freedom allows more opportunity. You see lots of very wealthy people not happy.

What are you— what were you seeking at the time when you made that pivot?

I wanted purpose. What am I here for? And so that has changed over time because as I finish and accomplish each one, I feel like I'm bored again. What else is there? What else is there? Which is why even just 4 years ago, I— I know everyone in tech. I threw away all of that to do climate, start from the beginning. I was in healthcare, then it threw it away. Tech, start from the beginning. Then climate, start from the beginning. Because I'm not afraid. I have a network. I can go out, I can learn through the network, I can get resources from the network. I— you can do a lot from it. And that's why I tell everyone, that's actually what you need more than anything. That's what transcends all industries and all of time. And then I believe in myself, and also I have a safety net. I believe that no matter what happens, if I lose everything, I can always go back and get a corporate job.

I don't see you do that, but I—

it would kill me, but I can do it. I could pay for the rice on my table, right? So, and also I've been telling people, it's not even that. You should make investments, make money work for you, and then you you don't have to sit a 9 to 5, right?

So what I like about what you said, it was not money. It was really like, first is having a network, which is a tribe really. It's not just a Rolodex or how— no, or LinkedIn profile. It's actually a tribe of people that you're connected with. And I see you traveled from city to city. Yes. So having a tribe brings a lot of confidence that whatever happens, you can reach out to them. A real tribe of people where you have real relationships. And secondly, okay, you have a safety net, which is very helpful, right? If you needed to bounce back.

Education.

And thirdly, you had education.

Education gives you that opportunity. And then confidence comes with, you know, you have to build it in yourself. Meditation, Buddhism, all the things.

Meditation, wisdom. And I know you're heading out to a meditation retreat very soon. Yes. Which is very exciting. But I want to go back to the making of Dr. Yao Wang, because you did— you graduated from pharmacy and that's how you became a doctor, correct? Right, that gave you the education and knowledge. You did that, you hit all the different— checked all the boxes from the American dream, and then you got very bored, and then you decided— you created the Wonder Woman Network where you had a very vivid live community of people that help each other. And then you kept pivoting. Today, 2024, if I ask you, what is your purpose in life? What is it?

I have to save this planet.

So your purpose is to save the planet?

I have to get rid of the CO2. We— I don't think people understand, we're going to die. I don't, I don't have these negative thoughts all day because it's really depressing. Yeah, but this is what's happening, and I gave up everything to try. Because if I'm going to suffer, I want to at least try. And that's why my purpose is right now. And also to share all the joy and love that I have and my friends. Just, I think there's another way to exist that isn't so negative. Yeah. So that's personally, but then professionally, it's all climate right now.

So climate is your purpose. Saving the planet is a purpose. Thank you for investing all the time.

Thank you.

In what you're doing and driving impact. Also, that's our purpose, is to educate people on how they can contribute to saving the planet while people are busy taking care of themselves and their family. And thank you so much for the knowledge you shared. Before you go, because we're not done with you yet, okay, a couple of things. I'm going to go to the bottom of the list. The tough but interesting questions. Sure. So what advice do you have? Because one of the pillars of Driving Impact is helping people find 3 tips to be able to grow, accelerate, transform their career. So what are the 3 tips you would recommend to anyone mid-career, beginning of career? How do you drive the most impact in your career?

So this is a good question because career is defined very differently. Do you mean your career in your corporate job? Or do you mean your life career? Right?

I see it all together.

I see it very differently.

Okay, so give me two answers then. One is for your corporate, and then after that the one is—

Because just like you, everyone wants to unplug, right?

Yeah, we all—

And that's a very different list for those who are climbing a corporate ladder.

So let's do both, because not everybody who's listening— I don't know why I'm looking at the camera. Where's the camera?

Where's the camera?

Not everybody is in corporate, right? Some people have their own business. Some people— it's more to drive impact. I think it's—

I know, I know we want to drive impact in their life. So for your corporate jobs, I know everyone loves bouncing around, okay? When you find a good boss, one that backs you, one that advocates for you, one that's pushing you and making— and listens, and you know what a good boss looks like, everyone. Okay, don't leave, stay. In fact, when they leave, follow them.

So your career tip, your number one career tip is that?

I've seen this in my— I don't— I'm not from corporate. I see my friends. When you have a good boss, you jump.

You keep getting promoted.

Yes, and you can rise with a good advocate. And you also, if you want to do a side gig, you have a good— you have a nice sweet situation. Right? Now, if you just want money and you don't care if you have to work 80 hours a week and give up your kidney and you get sick 3 times a year because you are so overworked you're thrown into the hospital, if you don't care about any of that, you just want the money, then yes, keep hopping until your kidney dies, until you lose all your hair. Yeah, yeah.

Until you have a heart attack.

Lonely with no— divorced and no kids and your dog died. Yes, do that. Okay, fine. Just keep hopping. Do it for the money. Because eventually what you're going to do is you're going to quit your job early and go sit in the mountains and meditate and try to find yourself out of that whole mess of suffering and toxicity. I think there could be a balance. And what I'm saying is when you find people who support you, be loyal and stay. And that's staying for the company, staying for that boss.

Yeah. What if— I don't know— what if people have not found that good boss?

Then look. Look, okay? It's a two-way street. Maybe it's also you. I'm just saying.

Maybe you're the bad employee.

Maybe you are the bad one. Like, heal yourself. Go meditate. Anyways, that.

Tip number 1 for corporate people, find a good boss.

Second, network. You need a network. Not to network, but you should probably do that too, but you need a network support, right? So I built this very easy plug-and-play situation for all our ladies. If they're if they get accepted and they stay good, yes. But there's many ways to build networks, but you need a network. You can't just be a lone soul out in the universe. You need allies, you need friends, you need people to help you, and you need to call the Bat Phone at some time, right?

Yeah.

You need that. Okay, that's number 2.

Number 3?

Education, curiosity, keep learning. You can't just be like, all right, I got this job, I know how to do it, and just learn. Okay, so if you started learning how to code, now there's AI, there's machine learning. You can't just stay there. Things are changing. The world is moving. You got to move with it. You got to learn along the way. And that might mean going back to school. That might mean taking classes, reading books, talking to experts. You're going to have to learn or you're going to be replaced. And that's how you be successful.

I love it. Now give me the same track but for somebody who's not in corporate, a corporate job. We're sitting with Dr. Yao Wang, and I'm looking at you in the eyes, I'm saying your name. What are the top 3 tips to accelerate your career if you're not in a corporate job?

This is for life. This is not even a corporate job or not. It's This is because your life is formed from decisions of what you want to do.

Mm-hmm.

And it might be working for a corporation, it might be working for yourself, it might be through investments, whatever. But what drives that is finding something you're passionate about so it no longer feels like work.

Mm-hmm.

And so the time you put in actually reinvigorates you. It doesn't suck from you. You hate what you're doing, it sucks from you. When you love it, you just keep doing because it's so much fun. Fun. Yeah, right. Passion. The second is, what is enough? Is it $5 million? Is it $1 million? Is it just having 3 coconuts and sitting on the beach? Like, what is enough? I'm a funny person, so I'm just gonna go with the coconuts.

I think with 3 coconuts I can spend a great life.

Great life.

Live until I'm 100 years old.

Right? What is enough? And once you achieve it, that's enough for you. You're not trying to live this life for your mother or for your boss or— what is enough for you to be satisfied, to be happy, to be like, "Ah, this is good. This is all I need." Sometimes people forget that.

Mm.

That's why you lost your kidney in the hospital. Third, Friends and family. Do it for them. Have them. I prioritize my friends and my family over work. I can do that now. I didn't used to do that. I used to be that crazy person who worked 100 hours a week, who gave up everything.

Do you still have your kidney?

I have all my kidneys.

Okay, good.

Yeah, because I don't drink coffee. I don't drink alcohol. Water's really good. But think about the people in your life, not just of consumerism. This is a very capitalist, consumerist-driven society we live in here in the United States. This is not true everywhere.

Yeah.

And I think we've lost that way through just the way we live. There's so much social media, there's so much buying of this and trying to keep up with whoever is around you.

Who cares?

Like center yourself, know who you are, know what you want, be happy for that, and who cares with everything else. That's all that really matters. And the people in your life, it doesn't have to be so big. It could be quite happy and satisfying small.

Fulfillment.

Yes.

And you talked about knowing who you are. I know it's going to sound like a weird question, but people get lost in translation. How do you think people can find their true self?

I mean, that's everyone's personal journey. I can only tell you what's worked for me. Um, it's a lot of the lessons of Buddhism, which is openness, being able to receive, it's taking time, it's meditation. I found myself through the journey of discovery, just being open and seeing what happened. I didn't really set, this is what we have to do, we get this degree, we do this, we sit— it didn't do that. Uh, and as you've seen, like, I had a really good job, then I just like got bored, looking and looking and reading. Oh, this tech thing looks really good. I literally jumped and I went there and spent that time, and then I read and I got into climate. Yeah, just followed the path of what felt right. Yeah, for me. And that journey has defined me. The time I spend with my friends, I've learned about me, I've learned about them, what I like, what I don't like, of what I— the values I deem most important, respect, loyalty, consideration, all of these things. And I surround myself with those people, and it tells me who I am. And you'll know. Based on just how happy and comfortable you are. Something doesn't feel right, it's probably not right. And the more you go down that, you lose yourself doing the wrong thing.

It's following your gut, following your flow.

Yeah.

And following the energy.

You'll find yourself, you'll find yourself, but you have to be open.

Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for the conversation. Super excited about like following all of your adventures, and we'll make sure to share with everyone all the links of the companies you talked about today. And can't wait to see you save our planet, and we'll join in with you.

Thank you.