Art That Breaks Boundaries: Carmen Zella's Urban Revolution

Healthy community and healthy places always needs to have art. And so, you know, and when we look at like what transforms districts, and this becomes like a little bit of a cliché because we start looking at gentrification issues of communities, you know, because art plays a really like— it's if you see art and artwork and public art in communities, you know that those communities have some level of health and vitality and frequency.

Welcome to Driving Impact. Hello, Driving Impact hive! I'm super excited today to welcome you to Carmenzela, who's the founder and chief creator at NOW Art in LA. Welcome to Driving Impact, Carmen.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, this is exciting.

I'm so excited. And I saw that you have Rue with you.

She's here. She's normally with me.

Yeah, she's ready. She's ready. Well, Carmen, I wanted to jump in in the thick of the topic today. I'm super excited to have you, and I've seen some of the amazing work that you do. In LA and beyond, and I want to know, before becoming a chief curator, before founding NOW Art and launching yourself in public art and in arts overall, how did you find your purpose? And what I mean by that is that oftentimes people go through transformative moments or even pivotal moments or sometimes chrysalis moments where they see the light or they get very inspired and and they find their life purpose. What was that moment for you?

So I really appreciate that question because I think that oftentimes, like, as life tosses and turns us, we can get distracted by this, that, and the other. I started off in theater and in theater production because I really loved the stage. I loved the theatricality of the stage. And so I was in London, England, and I was working at the Royal Court Theatre upstairs. There used to be an upstairs and a downstairs, and it's Peter Brook's Theatre. And Peter Brook is an incredible playwright who really subscribed to like less is more kind of mentality. And I went to a play, and it was during a theater festival, and it was by an Argentinian group called De La Guarda.

De La Guarda.

De La Guarda. Yeah. And what was really interesting is in London, in England, when you go to the theater, it's very formal. So there was all these women in furs and, you know, all these business people and people were very dressed up, very dressed up. And so we're all in this warehouse in this like Trinity Western Dock, right? This unusual location. And all of a sudden on the ceiling, all of this light started pitter-pattering on the ceiling. And then a person came down and they were on bungee cords and they lifted up someone from the audience. And then all of the ceiling came down and it was all paper and there was scaffolding and then it rained on people. And it was this glorious moment of immersiveness. And I realized at that moment that I wanted to do more. And so I went actually to Montreal and I took interdisciplinary studies. And that was really the moment of going to that play and seeing how people were so joyous afterwards, like jumping down the street and, you know, like really in it. And they didn't care anymore about their furs. They didn't care about bumping into the other people. It left them with such a poignant shared moment.

Yeah.

And that's really what I wanted to do. I wanted to explore, like, taking away the proscenium arch taking away a stage, how art can really like exist around us, be a part of us, like constantly remind us of each other and of humanity. And so that's really where I ended up getting on this path.

I think it's such an amazing story. So you were in London and you were part of the crew that were working on this production?

No, I went there as an audience. I actually went there to go and review the play. So I went there during opening night. And because I was writing, you know, I was working at the theater, but then I also like wrote for a few theater publications at the time. It was also a way of getting into a lot of, you know, theater performances for free. So, yeah, and it was totally extraordinary. And then the troupe came to the Royal Court Theatre upstairs afterwards, and they had a talk about their experience. And there was translators because most of them, just spoke Spanish. And it was just— it was extraordinary and absolutely life-changing.

Wow. Listen, I just imagine being at this moment, being you and being like you are supposed to come in and analyze and take notes. And suddenly you're the audience, but you're living the moment with the artist. And then you have the symbiosis of everybody being together. And then you came out like rain and bonding and water. It's incredible. So at that moment, you decided that you wanted to be in the art and create immersive experiences?

Yeah, it was just this moment of that art doesn't need to— and it's very reminiscent of John Cage, his philosophy that life is art, art is life. And it's really not segmenting things to a gallery or paintings on a wall or a formal sculpture. And I really see our urban environment as having the flexibility to be like that, to be able to have these moments of inspiration that are unexpected. Because when people expect an art piece or an experience to be a certain way, you don't really, like, there's more barriers, there's more, you know.

[Speaker:KATHLEEN JEAN-PIERRE] You're more like you're judging and you're analyzing the art. The subject or you're not one with the art necessarily versus— I think what you're saying is that what the pivot that you took at that moment was that I want everybody to be part of the creation of that moment and of— Yeah, of this self-expression and creativity.

Absolutely. It's that unexpectedness. It's that moment of, wow, of I'm a part of this, that where it's just the, the the lack of barriers, you know? And so to me, where we're at with public art and certainly Los Angeles is just like the best city on earth. You know, I shouldn't be saying this because we have a lot of people that live here. We don't want the, but it's really like, you know, with all of the publicity about the negative things about LA, it still has that moment of hope, aspiration, you know, it still has that possibility. Everything is possible here.

[Speaker] Yeah.

[Speaker] And so I feel like with public art, that level of voyeurism is really like, this is a great foundation place for us to experiment and explore. And I love the idea of the experimentation that the street can really, you know, bring to artists and creativity, because it forces them to think in a different way when they're being site-specific.

It's also when I think about all the cities that sometimes I would visit and there was public art, it's such a different way to discover a city. It's such a different way to discover yourself. And it's such a different way also to experiment what the artist's vision was when you're not just a spectator, but you're actually in it. And so that's the moment that changed everything for you, when they came out of the sky. And then you were like, okay, I want to do more arts. And you said you went to Montreal to study. Yeah. I like Montreal. I'm biased. I'm from Montreal. I love Montreal. I love LA. I love San Francisco as well. And so you went to Montreal. You decided to study interdisciplinary arts. Was it at Concordia?

At Concordia. Yeah.

Which is a great university for that.

Yeah. My professor, Tim Clark, The students from that class have gone on to do extraordinary things. And the interdisciplinary program was really about bridging disciplines, which I also love. It's like art is not just aesthetics or the act of, in terms of a formal practice in one way. It's like art and science, art and philosophy, art and anthropology. Like really bridging these ideas together. And I think that's a very, that was a very forward-thinking program because, you know, now in Los Angeles County, you know, we're, and sort of like a trend in public art and in art practicing is really having the artist be positioned in different locations and in different, areas of the city, like an artist being positioned in a police department, an artist being positioned, you know, in terms of like all of these different departments. Because when you have an artist have a seat at the table, they see things differently. Yeah, a poet will see things differently and help kind of create different levels of expression. And it's really an opportunity for us in humanity. When we start to really empower artists in our society, it really helps to drive innovation, not just creative innovation, but innovation, period. And it always keeps that perspective of humanity real.

It's so interesting because it What I think about when I hear what you're saying, having artists have a seat at the table and also getting them out of just the art gallery, but everywhere from the police station to different places, it changes the perspective of the people who visit the place, but it also helps the artists see their art in a different location. And overall, the diversity of perspective, whether you're like a scientist or an artist or a historian or data mining engineer, I think it's important to have different people at the table to really evolve the conversation. I want to hear more about what you do. 'Cause I heard about one of the exhibits that got you to get an award. Best Creative Award is Luminex, which I looked online, it looked so inspiring. And I don't know if it's coming back. I saw it was 2021, 2022. And I want to hear more about the experience of bringing and collaborating to bring Luminex in Downtown LA.

Yeah, so Luminex is really, I coin it kind of as my baby because for me—

I think Ru's gonna be jealous.

Yeah, she totally is. Well, she goes to Luminex also. Because coming from Montreal, Montreal is a very art and tech advanced city. And also my study and practice in interdisciplinary art really explored a lot of, technology that's still being implemented today. And what I love about Luminex is that it really came out of the pandemic. Artists, all the art galleries were shut down. There was no like access to culture and expression in the same way. And so we wanted to bring it into the streets. And there was, you know, through the nation, there was, a lot of examples of that. What makes Luminex so special is that we do it in downtown Los Angeles and we partner with technology companies, but it's really an advanced art and technology exhibition. So we bring in artists that are, you know, anywhere from very well-acknowledged like Refik Anadol to Leah Smithson to Akiko Yamashita. So there's a lot of diversity that's reflected in the curation and the selection of the artists. Both in their ethnic diversity. But, but then—

Can you tell us more about these artists?

Yeah, absolutely. So we are coming back in 2024 in October.

I'm excited.

And right now—

I'll be there.

It's, it's incredible because the lineup of artists that we have this year, which I can't reveal yet, is spectacular. They're, you know, well exhibited, video artists, performance artists, multimedia artists, you know, that are based in Los Angeles. And what we do is we really, it was important for me that people can walk into downtown Los Angeles and some of them might come for LUMNIX and some of them might happen upon it, but it doesn't, we don't create like a festival where there's food trucks or banners or a spectacle. It's really seeing an installation that is very site-specific and very large, like these walls are 60-foot by 120-foot.

Wow.

And you walk and you see and you hear this incredible video art piece. And some of them are smaller and the intimate experiences, you know, are just as moving. But the audienceship in this community environment, you know, there'll be a houseless person and an elderly woman and a— someone walking their dog and someone pushing their baby carriage, the unity that happens and the appreciation because it's so— the technology by Show Imaging, which is our partner in doing this, as well as the South Park BID and Arup Engineering. We all come together and really give back to the city with these high levels of artistry that is truly extraordinary. And it's all walkable.

So people come from different walks of life. Mm-hmm. It seems like it's a self-guided immersive experience.

Absolutely.

People discover Luminex and it's interactive and this technology and this traditional art and everybody's just experiencing across all of the Art District in Downtown LA.

Yeah, it's all in the South Park area. And so, you know, there's several different levels of exploration because the artists, we really push them to ensure that their site specificity So whatever wall that they are either projecting on or doing a performance in front of, it's very— it's sort of birthed out of the inspiration of that site. So it's not just like a sticker that's on a wall or haphazardly there.

You're not trying to fit something into a space. You're creating the art for the space.

It's very, very intentional.

Yeah. With the experience in mind.

That's exactly it. Yeah.

And it must be a big production.

It's, you know, it's a very large lift. It's a very large lift for sure. But you see that level, it's— so what we offer the artists is we give them, you know, all the highest-end equipment. You know, the level of professionalism is really, you know, to the level that, you know, these well-acclaimed artists are comfortable with and sound and everything. So some of them are very AR-driven. Some of them are created in real-world engine. And some of them are very sound-driven. Some of them include performance, some of them have live musicians and live camera feeds and are being like sequenced. So we really try to push the technology. So when the audience comes, they experience a variety of things and it really helps to again, like give the audience and the public an understanding of what's possible in our urban landscape and the discovery of art in this absolutely unique way.

It's augmented reality. Talk about AR, augmented reality experiences that happen in Luminex. So how long does it take to bring Luminex to life? Just an example for our audience to understand.

Yeah, so the first— it's, it's like a solid year of production that we do. So, and we also get a lot of support from the community through the South Park Business Improvement District. You know, they're very committed because We brought around 17,000 people the first year that we did it, 25,000 the last year, and this year we're doing it during October 5th and 6th. And so we have like all these incredible partnerships in place, but we paused on it last year and we got just a lot of feedback from the community that they really wanted to see it come back.

So there's an impact of art, of public art, on the population. Can you talk a bit more about— because you talk about art in terms of healing, helping people heal through experiencing art.

Yeah. One of the statistics and takeaways of Luminex is that it becomes the one night a year in the district where there's no vandalism or crime.

That's a big deal in downtown L.A. because I was researching online and I saw that downtown L.A. versus the average United States city can have a crime rate of like 155% higher than national average. So like, that's a major impact. Yeah.

And that's, that's the power of art, you know? And I also think that it's the power of, you know, community experiences, because when you get people on the streets, it becomes safer. It doesn't become less safe. It actually becomes more safe. And in an experience where it's shared, something like Luminex or Performance, or where there's no barriers, there's no VIP versus, you know, there's no stage, there's no—

there's separation, there's no— like, everybody's together.

There's no separation, there is no like us and them, none of it. The art is for all people to experience, and it's absolutely free.

Have you discovered, like, COVID was a big hit for a lot of people for conscious collective anxiety or mental health. Have you encountered any, like, statistics of breakthroughs in terms of mental health and some of the work that you do in public art?

Absolutely. Throughout the years, I had the privilege of meeting the head of Americans for the Arts, which is the largest arts organization. General Nolan Bivens came to LA and met with us because we're doing a project that's a national-facing project of community murals across the country. And the connection of art with community was really important with him because he's coming from the military and, you know, he did several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and he saw how impactful art was for supporting PTSD in soldiers who were returning.

Yeah.

And so he was really, you know, he made that pivot and became the head of The Americans for the Arts based on that.

Wow.

So we had really deep conversations with him about the impact of psychological impact of art. And I definitely, you know, he's— Arts for America has a lot of statistics that are really solid statistics based on that. But I've seen it in my practice. You know, I've seen it with artists that I've worked with, you know, who are retired veterans We've had conversations with artists that are, you know, schoolteachers or young kids that are, you know, just trying to find their way, you know, LGBTQ, queer youth that are, you know, have really gone to art as a place of solace and understanding. So, yeah, I see that always.

Yeah, it's so important and it's so critical in a society because we talk about computers, we talk about technology, We talk about technology a lot, but technology doesn't always bring back the mental health. On the contrary, as we've seen in the news cycle right now, there's a lot of mental health issues related to technology, social media, et cetera, certain platforms.

Yeah, and healthy community and healthy places always needs to have art. And so, you know, and when we look at like what transforms districts, and this becomes like a little bit of a cliché because we start looking at gentrification issues of communities, You know, because art plays a really— like, it's— if you see art and artwork and public art in communities, you know that those communities have some level of health and vitality and frequency. And people really gravitate to those locations. You know, we see cultural tourism and the impacts of cultural tourism. So it kind of goes like all across the board.

You said the word frequency. Mm-hmm.

Tell me more.

I love it. The cities with art of a certain frequency. Yeah. And I was thinking, I was in Montreal this summer for my birthday, and it was not art necessarily, but they were just gigantic bubbles, and there were kids in the bubbles.

In Cartier des Spectacles?

Yes. Yeah. And then there was another one on Saint-Laurent Street, and it was just so— I think the energy of— they blocked the big boulevards. And no cars and we're just like beeping and bopping and shopping or like eating. And it was just this, this the energy of a city. And that's why I'm like, I'm double-clicking on frequency. So tell me more about frequencies. Yeah.

So, you know, art, when I think about art, it's like it's hitting you in a different level because, you know, it's either conceptual, aesthetic, you know, but it's hitting you on a different level and it's hitting you in my opinion, like without getting too mystical, because I am very mystical.

You can go mystical if you want, girl.

Yeah, because I just love the idea of how art can actually impact and influence us. And it really, it hits people on these levels that are unexpected, and that's where change happens. So when you're able to position someone not on the nose. It's not about a conversation about, like, my position versus your position, but it's this unifier where you can really make huge changes about people thinking about environmental issues, about humanitarian issues, about diversity and inclusion. Art comes into play always. Music, theater, film, all of it.

Art has existed in history. It's been existing forever. When we think about Louis XIV and why they wanted to have music and why they wanted to have theater, because it's always been part of society. And I think it's part of our collective tissue. I like the idea of a frequency and people are doing cultural tourism. Are people probably looking for an experience, but also cultural, but also an exchange of energy.

An exchange of energy. Well put.

Yeah, because thinking about the moment where you were in London and you had this transformative experience— some experiences change your life and they become very memorable, and it really has an imprint on your brain. And then you want to reproduce that experience. And oftentimes it could be art, it It could be different types of experiences.

Well, and you know, like when we're thinking about AI, right, which is, you know, art and AI is a thing.

What do you think about the future of art and the concept of AI? Because we had some guests who talked about creativity and AI and the future of art. I would love your perspective as a leader in the art scene.

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of artists that are including AI, like Refik. As a part of their art practice, but it's not the whole story.

Graphic is a Los Angeles-based— is it the graphic?

Refik Anadol is a Los Angeles-based artist. He's Turkish. And he uses AI conceptually. He creates this platform where it's like autogenerative imaging. And so he's done major retrospective or major pieces in MoMA, but he's really been widely exhibited around the world. So AI can be implemented in ways that are still where the artist is in control. They're not just— it's not the end story. It's a utility of a concept that's being created. And so in that way, I feel like— but if we were to think about like if we want art to really emotionally you know, change us or impact us or impact society, there still has to be a person on the other end because it— there still has to be a concept, you know, of a driving factor. And that's where humanity is always going to have a seat at the table, no matter what technology is being utilized as kind of like the endgame.

It's very interesting because I was tinkering with Midjourney and different tools. And there's an aesthetic of AI, 100% pure AI-generated art versus a traditional artist. There's some, I kind of see it oftentimes and it's a different, I don't wanna say different vibration, but it's a different vibration. It's a different outcome. Some of it can look amazing. Some of it, there's always something that throws me off.

But it's a tool, right? So when someone implements it as like not as a tool and as an answer, I think we feel that there is an energy drop. But if it's being utilized in a different way, because technology is, in my experience, it's allowing a lot of new opportunities. Like we talk about AR, public art can be very daunting and hard to do in terms of like access, bureaucracy, cost, all of these things. All of a sudden technology unfolds that we can do an augmented reality piece. So I can have a sculpture in the middle of Times Square and I don't need to ask anyone. I don't need permission for that. But an artist can create it and envision it and have it on an AR platform so you can see what they would want to actualize in space on your phone.

So it helps prototype, visualize, create an experience without having to go through all the logistics and bureaucracy.

Exactly. So technology definitely like has some advantages. And I think as a new tool, AI, we're still learning and we're still figuring it out. But at the end of the day, you know, our population is very critical. Certain social media platforms come and go. Yeah, you know, there's never any exacts. I think that there's an opportunity that technology has that's, um, that's interesting, and we shouldn't necessarily shy away from it because we're never going to completely eradicate like hand-created pieces. And that processing just becomes more and more rare and more and more valuable.

I like your perspective. And I'm hearing— and you tell me if I'm hearing it right— you're leveraging AI and technology as a tool, as an enabler, as an augmentation. And sometimes it's like it helps you rapid prototype different experiences without having to navigate all the— the legalese, um, to bring an idea to life, and then you can decide what you want to do with it. I wanted to hear about another portion of, of what you do, which is your foundation. Yeah, that you open. I wanted to understand what is the interaction between the company Now Art and then the foundation, which is Next Art.

Yeah, so the foundation is really— it's really where we get to— so a lot of times with the, with public art. We're hired, you know, to do consulting. We're hired on certain development projects. We're hired by cities. We're hired by corporations. And all of that is great. We can execute sort of like our unique vision and access to artists and share, you know, our years of experience that way. The Foundation is really our playground where we can, we can create projects that in our, you know, world are ones that we would love to, you know, these are our example projects of like, this is totally creative, like this is what you can do. Um, and we don't have necessarily— it's not client-driven, it's creative-driven and driven by like what we are maybe not seeing in the public or what we would love to be able to see. And these are all opportunities like Luminex, like what we did with Triforium, like what we've done with War of the Worlds, with the LA Phil. Like, these are really examples and prototypes that we're hoping that really change the bar, that push it forward.

You're pushing the frontiers.

Yeah.

Can you tell us a bit more about Triforium?

Yeah, so the Triforium project is a really interesting project because there's a band called Yacht and that group really got fixated and was like enamored by this sculpture that's like right in Civic Plaza in Los Angeles and then ended up coming to us and in terms of like, okay, we really wanna reactivate the Triforium, can you help us do it? And I was like, what is it? So we went and we looked and it's the coolest. So this artist, Joseph Young, in 1975 created the first polyphenoptic sculpture. So it has this very Jetson kind of like, you know, 70s.

You're gonna have to break it down for us. What polyphenoptic is?

Yes, so this crazy sculpture sculpture that like is, you know, right there. They created like— so at that time in 1975, they had like all of these like levels of computers, right? And they were ticker tape. It was like little ticker tape. And then, you know, basically this ticker tape, you would feed it into the computer system. And what the ticker tape basically did is— and this is levels underneath the ground of this computer system, right? And above it is the sculpture with light.

Okay.

And so what happened was the artist wanted sound to generate different light patterns on the sculpture. So like the key of D, the key of B. So every time those keys were played, these bells would play in the same tone and the lights would change.

That's so fun.

So we ended up getting all this ticker tape which was still like, you know, in boxes, the computer system had been dismantled, et cetera. And we had an archivist, a computer archivist to be able to like refigure out the programming. So again, with technology, we're able to put in an LED system. We have Ableton Live that can basically, any artist can play the music and it goes back to what the artist Joseph Young had originally envisioned. He could never execute it in 1975 because the technology kept breaking down. So it was like—

[Speaker] He was not there.

This failure, right? And at that time it was $7 million to construct it, which was a gigantic amount of money at the time for the city to have invested. This was supposed to be Los Angeles's Eiffel Tower, the Triforium. And now it's such an incredible vision. So the Joseph Young Foundation, his daughters came to this exhibition that we did where we had all these musicians that were curated by Yod playing, you know, Reggie Watts, like all these like great LA artists. And the Triforium responded in the way that it was supposed to because of the technology. And they cried and all these people came and they were like, this is so cool because it's really like another expression of Los Angeles, right? Musicianship.

It's incredible.

Sculpture. Yeah.

It's like 50 years later, technology is at a level that it can be done. And it's just a beautiful story of how in 1975 it was extremely expensive. The technology was not able to deliver. But now fast forward to now, it's something that's feasible. And then you're the one bringing it to life, which is amazing. And he wrote—

the artist wrote all these philosophies about the future. It was like very— he was very passionate about this piece. And now we can do it with technology. We could have even done it with a phone.

That's incredible. That's like, that's a beautiful story of how technology can accelerate some of the different types of immersive art experiences. And I wanted to thank you for sharing that story. I wanted to hear your story because you're an entrepreneur, you're a philanthropist, and I know it's not always easy to be an entrepreneur. And then on top of that, you're in art and you're a woman. I wanted to hear about what helped what brought you, or did you have any pivotal moments that told you, I'm going to create this company, NOWART, and I'm going to do it, and I'm going to create that business, and then I'm going to open a foundation? Because there's a lot of people who might want to follow your path and maybe don't have the courage or structure of— I know you went to Concordia, but how did you do it all?

Yeah, so, you know, when you're in the arts and you're creative, you hit a lot of roadblocks. And then you pivot and you change. But what's important in those pivots and changes is to never lose your focus. If you're gonna be a plumber, be the best plumber. If you're gonna be a musician, be the best musician. So even though there's bumps along the way, and so for me, it was just seeing an opportunity because I really, I still think that public art has a big future ahead of it. And I think we're just at the prep, the moment that it's really gonna start kicking off. I don't even think that half of what we can explore in public art we're exploring, 'cause we see such an appetite for it and we see such a hunger for humanity and art in our everyday lives across the board. So why not see it in physical space?

Mm-hmm.

And so that was really something when the street art revolution happened, and I call it a revolution because it was really like that moment where all these artists were going onto the street. They weren't, you know, always being asked permission. They were not always educated in art. It was being adjudicated by the public itself that really started to break down a lot of like these barriers, these formal barriers. And at that moment I was like, man, you know, my punk rock side just like really kicked in. And I was like, man, you know, like we— there is just an opportunity for us to keep pushing this and to keep exploring this. And we really need to have an advocate on that side to be able to say to, you know, developers and cities, be an advocate for the artists and for these opportunities, make them more accessible. So really, if I was to say what my ultimate mission is, it's that. It's really to be able to help artists to be able to find spaces and break down a lot of these barriers to accessing public art. And I just keep seeing it. So that's what keeps me doing it. And that's what keeps, I think, you know, my organization having a uniqueness. Yeah, because we kind of straddle like the formal bureaucratic world and the world of art.

Yeah, the world of art and the world of not profit as well. Have you faced any different barriers because you're a woman in the world of art?

Yeah, it's, it's not quantifiable, but I do think that it's actually— it's given me a seat at the table, I think, in some ways. And in some ways it's potentially not. So I feel like, you know, as a woman, when it is a man's world, especially like in city building and urban planning, there's a lot of men. There's a lot more women now and there continues to be, but in architecture, and that's like a huge part of public art is having like the interface between that. I think being a woman has really helped because I'm not threatening. You know, in the same kind of way, I think that there's like an understanding that I'm going to bring a different vantage point to the table. And I think they really want a feminine perspective on these sort of like very, you know, sort of masculine facades. You know, I think that, that we can as women really be compelling and weave together that harmonious understanding of formal structure and artistry and creativity. So—

That's so interesting. Because what I'm hearing is that you brought a lot of harmony, collaboration while being a trailblazer. But you did it in a way that people didn't feel threatened. And they wanted to join in your mission. Because it feels like it's a movement. And I don't know how far or what's next for Now Art or Next Art in terms of like, you're in LA, are you planning on expanding further?

Yeah, I mean, Los Angeles has a really, you know, great, you know, forum because we have the World Cup coming in 2026, we have the Olympics in 2028, and there's just like so much energy in the city right now on so many different levels. And I think that, yeah, definitely we're going to be, you know, we have projects at the table, but, you know, these opportunities, what I'm really driven to do. And I had a conversation with an artist, Elizabeth Turk, who's an incredible artist, and she creates activations and is doing them on large scale as well. And I was in this conversation with her and I was like, you know, at a moment where it feels like divisive, it's not. I mean, America, you know, as a Canadian, I always have a little, you know, but I've been here for over 20 years.

Yeah.

And I just think that there's this unifying moment right now that while the media is, you know, working to separate us or divide us and polarize us, We can counter that with these incredible unifying art experiences. And so I love the, again, technology. I love the possibility of just continuing to do the work and to meet the artists and to meet the people and to work in public art because there is going to be a project that comes out of all of this that really showcases and regains that that spirit that we need to be reminded of.

[Speaker:Katheline Jean-Pierre] You give me so much hope, especially as we're walking towards another election. And we know that election moments are always moments of polarization because people don't agree, don't align, and people have the right to have their own opinion. And I do feel that sometimes art can be a unificator, an amplificator, and also bring us back to our human essence, which is like when we were in the grotto, we were drawing and we were singing and we were doing things. I mean, not me, I was not alive, but the humanity in general. And I want to ask you a question that I call it the existential question of driving impact is do you think that art can save the world? And when I talk about saving the world, the context is where we crossed the 1.5 degrees Celsius in terms of global warming. We have a lot of people talk about AI scaries and a lot of like the AI could potentially threaten what's real and what's not real on the internet. And we talk about global warming and etc. But I want to hear your perspective.

I don't think that art can save the world, but I think that art can save ourselves. And I think that art can give us a sense of purpose dignity, understanding, reflection, because the world isn't going to be around forever and we are not going to be around forever. So that shouldn't be the goal necessarily. We should be living our richest and most powerful lives, and we should be striving for a less harmful impact on our planet. Because I think spiritually there's really bad karma there. And it doesn't help when we have children to think of the degree of harm that we're doing. Yeah, it can, but it can help our consciousness because it can help our understanding. It can share levels of education. It can, it can reunite us together. And do it in a way that I think will alleviate a lot of suffering that we have currently on the planet.

And thank you for sharing that and for saying that. And I have a 4-year-old son, and you also have a 6-year-old?

5-year-old. Yeah.

5-year-old. And how, like, from the perspective, I know when I gave birth to my son 4 years ago, I was in— Beverly Hills, and I was leaving the hospital and he was like 6.9 pounds. It didn't fit, fit in the car seat. And then the only thought I had was, how am I going to protect my son from the world? Which is the weirdest thing because it's just that it was so small and I just— was my first and only child. From a perspective of a mother, like when you look at the future, what are your thoughts? I know you're leading with art and transformation, but what are your thoughts thinking about your child 13 years from now? What legacy would you want to give?

I'd want to give a legacy that everybody that's here, no matter what you're doing, we all have impact. And so I want to leave a legacy where the impact and the time that I spent on this planet planet really like created a catalyst for growth and change in a positive direction. And I think that if we were all striving for that goal, we could achieve it. But it needs to happen less on like an individual-by-individual basis, but on a collective basis. And again, what could do that better than, than art in helping to, to steer that change?

Very inspiring. And I want to ask you a last question because our audience is also from different walks of life. Some people are going through an awakening. They want to know how can they drive more impact in the world. And what are your top 3 tips for people who want to be able to grow in their career and drive a lot of impact in their career, in the world? What are the lessons that you've learned that you could send off to the next generation following us?

Yeah, I'm going to echo a little bit of what I said before, but it's, you know, keep your eye on the prize. Like, really, you know, commit to something and make sure that you are like water, right? Like, you know, if there's obstacles or whatever, you can flow flow through them rather than see them as obstacles. And I also think that I never say no. I always say yes. And I think I learned that from theater, right? In improv, like, you never say no. You always say yes.

Yes, and?

Yes, and. And you lean into possibility. And I think that possibility comes in many forms. And sometimes we just— should be looking for the yeses. And then the last thing that I would say is, you know, try and wake up every morning and think of what you're planning to do in that day and what type of positive change you can make that was different from the day before.

Positive impact. Thank you so much, Carmen. Thank you so much for making the time. And thank you, Rouge. She's sleeping. Cozy, and I'm excited. I want to see you in October because I want to go to the next version of Luminex.

Luminex, absolutely.

I'll make sure to follow you, and because I'm more— I mean, I've been in LA for 6 years now, but half of that I was in lockdown, but now I'm like back in the wild.

Yeah, me too.

So thank you so much, Carmen, and I'm very grateful for your presence. And Driving Impact Hive, this was Carmen Zela, and stay tuned.