The Climb to Fortune 100 Executive. Katheline's Story.

People in the United States lead a lot with race. For me, it's not— like in Canada, of course people said things, but not at the extent of the US where it's like, "Oh, we're gonna make sure that you know that you're different." Welcome to Driving Impact. Welcome to the Driving Impact podcast. Today we have a very special episode with Rebecca Barry. She's a movie producer. She's based in Los Angeles, in downtown LA. And today we're going to do something extremely special. She really wants to get to the root of who I am as this podcast host and why I'm doing this. So we're going to do what we call in the industry a reverse interview where she will interview me to get to understand a little bit more what brought me into this journey, uh, with Driving Impact. Welcome, Rebecca. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited.

Thank you, Katheline. Thank you for— it's— I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to ask you the question. So I— it's a very cool, uh, thing. So thank you.

We're gonna have so much fun.

Yeah. So Katheline So you started this thing, Driving Impact and everything. So you as a kid, did you— what did you want to do when you were a child?

So yeah, when I was a kid, I mean, first off, 2 days ago my mom just text a picture to me and my sisters and it was a picture of me as a baby. And the— it was interesting because I was thinking about this question and she said Katheline Jean-Pierre was always very happy. I was a baby that was always giggling and happy. And then when I reflect back to now is I always see the silver linings. So when I was a kid, there was a critical moment for me when I was 5-year-old. I was going to a theater school and we did a show, a theater show. And I was, my role was Mozart. I had the lead actor role, actress role of Mozart.

Can we see the tape or?

I don't know. I could search for it, but I think we have some pictures. So basically I was 5-year-old. I'm of course, I'm a Black Mozart. I have an Afro on stage and I'm playing the role of a man. And it was Marie Antoinette and it was a standing ovation and everybody loved it. But for me, I realized that I was comfortable, extremely comfortable on the big stages. And I pulled a lot of energy from performing and in the moment, like sometimes at rehearsal I was not that great, but When there's an audience, it's good time. I feel the energy and it just lifts me up. So one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up was first being an actress, and I tried. I just featured right and left in small movies and commercials. Secondly, I wanted to be a writer. I'm a big, big— love to read. Since a kid, books have really like brought me through the different phases of my life. I was obsessed with some philosophy and French authors because in Quebec all of our literature, we would find it outside of Quebec oftentimes, which was in France and then other countries, French-speaking countries like in Africa or the Caribbean and whatnot. So I was a big fan of Jean-Paul Sartre and even more of Simone de Beauvoir and her books, like everything around the existentialism and especially from the perspective of a woman, which was Simone de Beauvoir. And I just devoured the first sex, the book, the first sex and then the second sex. And truly understanding more about how you can determine your future in your life. So I read a lot of French literature, was obsessed with it. I wanted to be a writer. I published a trilogy of poems which was called The Tempan Woman, which talked about the condition of being a woman. But in terms of lived experience, all the things that we go through, having our first periods to giving birth to a child or children if we so choose, and then the different things we're going to experience eventually, like menopause, and this weird construct. So I was obsessed with that. So as a writer— so I wanted to be a writer. I did it as well. And then I wanted— the third career that I wanted as a kid was to be a journalist. I really wanted to be a journalist. I remember when I grew up to be a bit older, and I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I know that I want to be able to travel the world and interview people and discover. And I remember I said, I want to go to different countries like Japan and Madagascar. I was obsessed with Madagascar. So I think that's really the world that I wanted to live in. And it's funny because fast forward to today, I'm back to what I really wanted to do, which is to be a journalist, to be on stage and to be a writer after like, what, 20 years or so in technology consulting and in the world of tech in Silicon Valley, Los Angeles, Montreal, and whatnot.

[Speaker] That's cool. So did you feel like there was someone in your family or friends and circle that kind of mentor you or push you toward this kind of like, in a way, artistic direction or?

Yeah, it's a good question, Rebecca. It's a very good question. I think my mom was one of my biggest influence, my mom and my dad. My mom because we call her in our family, she's the mastermind. She's someone who created her life from nothing. She grew up very in a poor neighborhood in Haiti and she really had to fetch for herself. And at 18 years old, she catapulted herself to Montreal. And created herself like from scratch. And nobody from her family was there. And I look at myself, 10 years ago I moved to Silicon Valley. I did the same thing. And when I left, I told my parents and my family, it's a one-way ticket. I'm not coming back. And because I wanted to follow my dream, and I think I was inspired by the boldest person of her family, which is my mom. And I think how she thinks is that if she has a goal, she's gonna achieve it. Especially in business. She always looks, thinks 10 steps ahead. She's fearless. She walks on her own drum and she basically just is going to do whatever she wants to do. And when I was 25-year-old, what I realized is that I went to Haiti for the first time and the whole— my whole family was talking to me about my mom as if the day she left was yesterday. They said, "Do you know your mom just left and she never told us she was gonna leave." And I'm like, "Oh no, really?" It was like time had stopped, right? 30 years, let's say, and then they still hadn't digested that my mom made that bold move, that she didn't tell anyone and she just decided to manifest herself to a different country and never came back to Haiti and got married and had kids, et cetera. And eventually her brothers and sister came there. But she's that kind of person. She's just gonna do what she wants to do. So I learned a lot from her. I became a little bit like her in that bold, deterministic way and fearless way. And what's interesting is my mom, when she started in Montreal, she wanted to be a nurse, so she started studying, but she started as a cook in the kitchen. So for me, whatever the job needs to be done, I'm just gonna do it, and I'm not afraid to roll up my sleeves. And really strong-arm myself through some of the biggest challenges that you can experience and to eventually create your dream life in your future. So she's been a big influence. And what's interesting with my mom, she doesn't have a training in the arts, but when I looked and I observed her is that there's two things. Yes, in business, she was very fearless in terms of running the show for the family, like a chief household officer. In her personal time, she loved listening to music. So I remember we were in the kitchen when we were kids, and she would just play the song "Hello" from Lionel Richie. "Hello, is it me you're looking for?" And then she would be dancing in the kitchen because she would just live in the moment. She would just be happy. She would bask in the sun. So I learned that from her as well. Music has a huge role in my life, right? I connect to music. I drove here to downtown LA Listening to my favorite music, it makes me happy. And then the other thing that I learned from my mom is in all her extracurricular activities, she would do teach— she was volunteer at Searcy to be in the theater troupe and do music shows. So she had this need to express herself through the arts, which never were a career, but were always the sideline. So that's what I learned from my mom. And then the second influence was my dad. So my dad was a bit more intellectual, always on time. So he would read every single book, would review every single homework from science to arts or literature classes or French classes. So he was very organized and very thorough. And for him, he would always challenge us. Let's say he would drive us to the library and he would say, "What did you learn from reading this book?" Oh, that's cool. That's cool. And me, I didn't think about summarizing a book. So he would always help us summarize and overcome the challenges and be a very calming presence in our life. And then the third person I would say that had the biggest influence is my religion teacher. So I went to a private school in Quebec that's called Brebeuf. And we had Monsieur Jacques Descaries. Monsieur Descaries. I went to the religion class. It was beyond religion, I think. For me, it was connecting to literature, art. I needed a thinking partner when I was 16, and I would just go to his office hours and then talk about poetry, literature, philosophies. I would share with him my poetry. He was a big influence because he was kind of ethereal. He was disconnected from the mundane things of life, and he would always focus on like the subject matter, which would be like literature, and we would go deep in conversations about different movements in art and philosophy and whatnot. And he would also tell me what he saw through my poetry, and he was able to identify also my— what I was afraid of and what I was scared of in what I was writing. So he was someone that was very important to me. Sometimes I would grab coffee at his house. His daughter was also the same age, so I got to meet her in college, but it was never the same relationship that I had with her dad. I think her dad was my inspiration in terms of thinking inspiration.

That's cool. So, and did you feel like the way you, you build your career, was there like moments that were like kind of key moments, or did you feel it was all like baby step, or were there like massive moments in your life and in in your career?

I think it's a good question because I've had multiple careers. So first, being brought up as, um, being raised as an immigrant in Canada, and especially Haitian immigrants, you have 3 career choices. You're going to be a lawyer, you're going to be an engineer, or you're going to be a doctor. Those are the choices. Maybe a psychologist. So eventually I signed up for psychology just to cover it up, but we like, we grow up, we grew up under a ton of pressure to succeed at school, to go to the best schools, to always deliver. So there was a lot of pressure around that, but through that pressure, I still decided to branch off while covering up what I would do. So my first career, I would say, was very early, was I was doing poetry shows in theaters in Montreal, and that's what I really wanted to do. And I just followed my heart and my passion. While studying, but I was very young, I was 16. Then my second career, and my parents freaked out a little bit about it, is I was a French rapper in Montreal. I even had a record deal from an indie label and then from a big pop-rock label. And it was interesting, I really was passionate about it. I had an epiphany when I discovered the music group, I don't know if you know them, IAM. Yeah.

And I'm French, so it's a very big band in France. It's like the Wu-Tang Clan of France.

I know, it's the Wu-Tang Clan of France. And for me at the time, I went from poetry, and then my sister was like, have you ever thought of doing rap? And I said, rap? I mean, I listened to the American rap, like EPMD, Wu-Tang, etc. But I never— English was not my self-expression in hip-hop. And then I discovered IAM, and especially the song Petit Frère. From Shuriken, and I remember just even talking about it today, I was having chills all over my body because it was two worlds I love, the world of poetry in French, 'cause that's what I like, and then the world of rhythm and blues and the world of like spoken word, but music. And then I had my epiphany. I remember listening probably, I don't know, thousands and thousands of times on that song and I decided this is what I want to do. So that was a pivotal moment. I remember at the time I was super young, maybe 17. I was obsessed with Yves Klein with the blue monochrome. So I would paint my room all blue, including the ceiling. And I had a cassette player and I would play Petit Frère, which is Little Brother from I Am, in a loop and just, just be so amazed about what was possible with poetry and hip-hop. So that was another career, and to having a record deal and being on stages and on TV. And then eventually, later stage, I was offered a record deal. The biggest record deal was $150,000 to be able to record my hip-hop album with a pop-rock record in Quebec. Record label, and I couldn't sign it because I already had a music manager, and I had a contract for multiple years, and had a music editor, which was from France, who had the same editor of Gainsbourg, and with all musical rights to my songs, and it was like, both of them were like, "If you sign this deal, we're gonna sue you." I think I was 23, didn't have, I worked in a hospital, I didn't have much money, So I didn't sign the deal because I was like, I can't do anything. I ended up signing with the indie label, and, um, they went out, ran out of money, and they never produced my album. And then after that, I had, um, a surgery. I had nodules, nodes on my vocal cords. So I spent a month in silence where I, I didn't speak, and I had to do other things and focus on other things. And I, during that moment, I had finished my bachelor's degree in political science, and I started a certificate in journalism. And that's when I discovered and stumbled upon coding, and you had to learn CSS, HTML. And, um, and I got my first job working in a not-for-profit where I would educate people about intimidation, discrimination in high schools, and how it leads to genocides. So educating people about the Armenian genocide, about the Holocaust and all the genocides around the world. And then I had to create websites and learn and leverage code to do that. And I had a major epiphany because I had to create websites and I had to spend time at the lab, like on my computers, because nobody owned a laptop at the time. And I was like, oh, this is so cool, right? Because I want to be a journalist. I applied to multiple places to be on TV or in the newspaper, nobody hired me. Then I worked in a not-for-profit, and then from working in a not-for-profit, started coding, and then I applied to Quebecor in Montreal, which— as a webmaster and an editor, and I loved it because I was hidden behind a computer playing with code, making the magic happen, and then I just went all in. And I went to Canoo as part of Quebecor, which was sales and advertising. And then I went to Yahoo as an editor, producer, and then product manager. And then the rest was history, because from Yahoo I went to Deloitte. And then after that, I launched my company, which was— I was a CEO of a mobile gaming startup. And then I became obsessed with Silicon Valley because I had found an investor there. And Google in Montreal knocked at my door. They said, I said, I wanna go to San Francisco. 'Cause I had been trying since Yahoo when I couldn't. As a Canadian, you had to find a sponsor and whatnot. And I went to Google and then I told my boss in one year I'm gonna move to Silicon Valley. He's like, okay, I'll coach you. And then my boss was a Québécois who went to Harvard but also was a serial entrepreneur. And where he had a couple of companies that worked very well. It's like, I'm going to show you— it was also VCs— like, I'm going to show you everything I know. And then a year later, I went to Silicon Valley, worked at Google for 10 years and a half, and then went to LinkedIn and moved to Los Angeles. So that was— and now where we are today. So there were all these moments where I just followed my passion, and sometimes it was very hard because Going into Google was super hard because it's like running a race, running a marathon at the pace of a race, right? Because my role was very technical and it was really like the rhythm of Silicon Valley. It was not like, ah, we'll do it tomorrow. Yeah, no, it was super aggressive, but I learned so much, right? I feel like I did my MBA on the internet there and, and then re-emerged a stronger professional. And fast forward to now, I'm going back, especially in LA. In LA, I had time. There was COVID. I became a mom in 2020, and there was this massive isolation where you're like, what's going on? And I started in LA to get back into the arts. I remember when I was 5 months pregnant, I started recording songs, set up a music studio. I started— I wrote 6 rap songs. And I don't know if it was the second trimester, but I was like, I'm gonna go and launch an album. And then I bought a blue wig, and then I'm gonna record a video clip. And then the third trimester, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired, I need to deliver my child. But it was this, this energy at the second trimester, so I went back to my interests and passions, and it was like I was inspired. And some people say when you're in the second trimester, you want to reinvent the world, you want to start a business, etc. That's what happened to me. It was like, I'm gonna do a music album, and then I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. Third trimester, I just need to deliver, I'm tired. And then fast forward to now, when I joined LinkedIn a year and a half ago, very different culture from Google. LinkedIn was a moment of where I owned my voice at Google, but I was really heads down, like making sure that to deliver on my sales numbers. At LinkedIn, it's a communication platform and everybody's posting and it's a professional network and I'm coaching. Executives on how to own their voice. And someone asked me, he's like, but do you even do it yourself? Which is a bit of a diss, but I was like, yeah, yeah. And then I decided I'm going to start like amplifying my own voice on the platform. And then I developed this appetite of, I want to go back to my dreams. I want to have my own show. I want to have my own podcast. And I, when I was at Google, I was like, I want to I want to have my YouTube channel. So I had all those different dreams that I always postponed to tomorrow. And then now I decided that tomorrow is now. This is the moment that it's time to go deeper and to drive impact in the world.

Yeah, the best time to plant a tree is 30 years ago. The second best time is today.

Exactly. Voilà.

Yeah. So it's funny because when you talk about your life, you did many things. Your career keep evolving. But it sounds like it was kind of made in an organic way.

[Speaker:KATHLEEN JEAN-PIERRE] Yeah.

[Speaker:AUDIENCE MEMBER] In the sense that you did one thing, then you changed it, then you changed it, but you were not like burning everything else. You were just like going from one thing to another and making— [Speaker:KATHLEEN JEAN-PIERRE] Yeah. [Speaker:AUDIENCE MEMBER] Like in an organic way. What do you think would be a good advice for people that are like working and maybe they don't know exactly if they like what they're doing and it's like, What is the best advice for someone to kind of like navigate through their career?

Yeah, I think people ask that question a lot because everybody looks at the career like step 1, 2, 3, and 4. What I've discovered in my career is you can achieve your goals, but your goals are not gonna like give love you back, or they're not gonna— as soon as you achieve the goal, you want to go do the next thing. So I think what's a bit more intentional is to think about the moments when you were in a state of flow. And what are those moments? What are you doing? And for me, it was clear. When I write a song, it could be 6:00 AM, I just go on and on. I am in the moment when I write a song. When I'm inspired, I just go, because I want to finish the song. Because this flow might not come back the same way. If you don't finish the song when you're sitting, I mean, at least the first iteration, So I think my advice for people who want to develop their careers, what are you excited about? Right? And when I started at LinkedIn, I said, I want to amplify my voice and I want to post. And then the more I posted, the more I realized I have stories to tell. So think about where can you, where do you find all your energy? Oprah has this concept, follow the energy. And in our life, there's things that we do that give us a lot of energy and then things that remove that energy. So what are the moments in your career where you feel like you're aligned with yourself? Yeah. That the energy is present. And for me, it's like on the stage, like somebody who's like singing my song and I'm like having chills and that makes me feel alive. It's writing music. Writing an article, performing, being on stage, meeting kindred souls, like meeting people that have a similar frequency of vibration makes me so happy. So, and I think becoming a better human, and that's why I want to go back to that. For someone who's developing their career, I think you have the ego goals and you have the deep intuitive goals. The ego goals is like, okay, I want to do this, I want to make X money. You're gonna achieve them if you work hard and you're strategic. But what you realize when you achieve the ego goals is you're not happier, right? Because there's something that comes with it.

Yeah.

And when you really follow your flow, when you follow— when you're in a state of flow, you follow the real self-expression of your soul. I think that's when you find your real career path. And, and I think it's so— if you get to accept yourself, you're going to accept the journey. Right. There's a journey and you wanna accept it because it also can feed your bigger life purpose because you don't really know, you don't have the full clarity at every step of the way. It just makes sense when you look back.

Yeah. So you had like a multi-step career. What do you think was the, the biggest challenges? What were the moment when you were like, oh, that one, I don't know if I can make it. Were there moment when you were like, okay, that challenge, maybe it's very hard, or was everything kind of— it was working.

It was so many challenges. Like, there's some things, and even as you align with your goals, I did a master's in management but in e-commerce, and it's law, business, and then engineering. The engineering portion, when I had to do like Java classes, it was like 3 AM eating waffles because I just was tired, drinking coffee at 3:00 AM. That was like, for me, it was not natural to code in Java and Python. I liked it, but not to the extent of like doing a career out of it. So you're gonna face challenges. If you can charge through the challenges, there's really a pot of gold waiting for you. So I remember I was in my SQL class. And my teacher, I was struggling and there was this guy, a French guy, who was like, what are you doing? You don't even know what you're doing. What are you doing? That's not what the teacher asked. And I was freaking out. I had a major imposter syndrome and I was like, I'm done. I'm gonna leave the program. I was gonna quit, pack my bag, ran away. The teacher came out, Frédéric, and, um, it was Frédéric Gagné, I think. He told me—

Frédéric is very nice.

Frédéric?

I mean, I don't know. Frédéric Saint, very nice.

He came out and he said, "What are you doing? Where are you going?" And I said, "I'm going home." He's like, "Why?" I said, "Because this is too hard for me. I just don't understand it." He's like, "No, there's an expression in Quebec that says, 'C'est en forgeant qu'on devient forgeron.'" Also in France. Yeah, it's, "C'est en forgeant qu'on devient forgeron." I don't know how you translate that in English.

It means like the more you do something, the more you become great at it. It's an old expression talking about when they were putting the thing on the horses, like, but really the meaning is the more you do something, the better you get at it.

Exactly. And it's funny 'cause Frédéric was also a hockey coach. And then he pulled me, he was outside, we're outside of a room. He's like, like there's some people, I didn't say that it was important in my career, but it was important in my career because it kept me from running away from my master's degree. And Basically he said, it's by doing, it's by keep going at it that you're gonna eventually become good. And then that's all I needed. That was like this hug, spiritual hug that he gave me that kept me in the program. Even though this other guy was like bullying me in class, telling me that I was not good. He was the soul that kept me in the program. I finished the program and that brought me where I am today. Right. That helped me. And then I had so many hard moments, right? Working in tech, it's just so, it was so hard, right? Being in sales, being able to even performing in the performing arts, you're in studio all day. So there were all these very big challenges that if you can overcome them, if it aligns with a bigger purpose, then it's gonna be even like having my vocal cords, And I had to be in silence for a month. That was like a whole universe of like, is it what I wanna do? Am I really good at it? So you always doubt yourself because you're like, maybe if I don't have the right technique, then I had to do singing classes. So I think my advice is think about the long run. Think about 40 years from now. Let's say it's like, okay, I wanna learn how to sing. If you learn how to sing, maybe you're not gonna be good for 5 years. but the compounding effect 40 years from now is going to be helpful.

Yeah, right.

So I think if you think about and you make choices not focused on the 2-year goal, but you make choices— let's say coding— 40 years from now, coding is going to help you. Maybe you want to launch an AI-based startup. Or so I think looking at the long view and not looking at goals, because we always talk about 3-year plan, Those are ridiculous because you're building skills. And if you're building the skill now, 20 years, 10 years, 20 years, nobody wants to think about 50 years from now. But I think if you can become a learner, it's going to help you navigate and paddle through the waves of life. So if we recap some of the tips, it's first is like identify when you're in a state of flow, that you're doing things and you don't even know and have notion of time or space. Because those are the areas of passion. Secondly is like, keep— like, c'est en forgeant qu'on devient forgeron.

Keep trying, keep learning, and then you get better at it the more you do it. The 1,000 days journey, the 1,000 hours and 1,000 days, the more you do something for 1,000 days and you're great at it.

The more you do something, the better you become at it, anything that is, right? Sports, coding, music, etc. So just knowing it's a journey and it's not Nothing is instantaneous, right? There's always a journey. I started on stage at 5 years old, 40 years later, right? Here I am. I'm comfortable with a mic. I love it. But that was a journey. There was a journey of like singing. There's a journey of acting. There's a journey that brings you where you are.

Yeah, I was gonna ask you, so you work in tech, you work in like major corporation, LinkedIn, owned by Microsoft, Google, and— but before that you were singing. Do you feel that the singing brought something to your career, like in the way you were acting, or do you think it brought some, some of knowledge or confidence or whatever that, that you use on a job that is not clearly not related to the singing?

100%. And I didn't realize it, but one of my, one of my best managers at Google was His name was Rishi Chowdhury, and he said— I was presenting to a customer, and he said, "Katheline, when you stand up and you speak in a room, the energy shifts." And I said, "What do you mean?" And he's like, "You're so inspiring. There's something that happens when you stand up and you start speaking in a room." And I didn't know what he meant at the time, But then I realized that it's stemming from when I was 5 years old, I was on stage. It's stemming when I was like 20 years old singing Black Maria on a stage. It's stemming from all of these experiences of being an actress. All these experiences that compounded will have an impact in my life and will make things easier. 'Cause when I was at Google, it was a business development and sales role. Right? And then it's a people business. You have to meet the people, you have to connect with people, you have to be able to speak, inspire, etc. So those are all the skills that I developed in my earlier career that are helpful today. But also, writing a song is telling a story. So storytelling, right? And writing a hit song, it's hard if you want to do something that's unique. So writing a hit song, it's like doing a good presentation. Sometimes I take these things for granted when I coach people. I'm like, But what is the story you want to tell? What is your too long TL;DR? What is your too long; didn't read? And I realized that I'm comfortable doing it because I'm used to writing a hit song, because I'm used to writing a headline of a song, because I know when the chorus is bad. But then I'm managing a team who doesn't know because they haven't spent time writing a song. So I think it's just all those skills that you build that actually helps you become who you are and be more successful in your career.

So Katheline Jean-Pierre, you've been a leader for a long time on many different jobs. What do you feel are the tips for a leader to be a good manager and be empathetic with their team and people that work for them?

I think, I mean, you said it, empathy. I think that's important because you don't know what people are dealing with and you know that some, everybody's dealing with something, right? As a leader in this world, you're managing people with neurodivergence. Everybody's going through some pain. I mean, you don't know, but you can be managing, managing people who've been through a lot of trauma, abuse. You can manage people who are going through divorces, cheating. So there's all sorts of things that, uh, show up, and people are not necessarily going to volunteer the information, right? So I think empathy, and it tripled down, I think in during COVID where I remember I was coming from mat leave and then some people had not left their house for 5 months. And if you're a leader who's not self-aware, if you don't have empathy, if you're not able to read the people, you're going to go and talk and maybe not understand that there's something going on that's more important than just talking about business. So I think having empathy and being able to connect with people Try to understand their world. I mean, you're never going to fully— everybody has a unique experience, so you're never going to fully know what their world is, but find a common language such that you can connect with the person. Secondly, help the person discover where they want to go in their career. So you have to be a coach, you have to be a mentor, you're going to be a guiding light. So help them, like, build the self-awareness, help them with clarity as well. To figure out where do they want to go, what is important to them, why is it important, because sometimes everybody has shallow goals, ego goals, and then there's real goals. And then you anchor on the shallow goals and you get there and then you realize that it's empty at the stop, that mountain top that you had created. So I think it's important to coach the people, because you can't show them the experience, but to coach them to help them understand what is it really they are after. What are you pursuing? And providing the clarity. Sometimes a leader, you feel like you're a psychologist. So I think that— I think thirdly, I love what Satya Nadella says, a leader is supposed to provide clarity, energy, consistency. So I think it's important to provide energy because there's a lot of doom and gloom in the world. There's wars going on, there are people who are being— innocent people who are being killed. And people are dealing sometimes and living personal wars in their life. And they don't have to volunteer their information. So how can you help them bring the energy in the day-to-day? Because again, any job that you do, some part of the job you're not going to like it. You're just not. And then some part of the job you're going to like it. So how do you help them bask in the light? And what I mean by basking in the light is focusing on the parts that they like, to try to organize their time where they can put more energy where there's something that they love, and then figuring out how to manage the things, the darkness, manage the things that you don't like, right? I don't know, if you're a coder, it's cleaning code. Maybe you don't like that, but you like to create something new. So, and then know, also help people understand that, like, develop the maturity to know that there's some things you're never gonna like, and that's okay. Then how do you organize your life? Do more of what you like. How do you— I think that's the job of a leader, right? So helping people figuring out, like, empathize, understand what they like, right? And empathize, understand who they are and what they're about. Secondly, help develop the self-awareness to focus on the right goals. Coach them to have clarity in the future. And then thirdly, help them managing their job knowing that sometimes people anchor on the darkness, but you want to help them anchor and have a growth mindset, anchor on what they like, because what they like is actually what's going to get them to where they want to go, right? The strengths that they have is going to help them leapfrog in their career and advance.

Cool. Yeah, so it's like, because you, you, so you are a leader of several companies, several companies. What did you feel was like a tool or some tools that you were using that you feel brought you to where you are right now?

Yeah, I think I love design thinking. So I became a design thinking facilitator when I worked at Google, and I think that's a superpower because you can take any problem and any group and help ideate to find different solutions to the problems. Technically, it's a workshop that can be done in 2 days, but I can do it in 2 hours, 3 hours, just to help people create their future and design their future. So being able to be a systems thinker, a design thinking expert is going to help you really create, identify the opportunities, but also be able to be a problem solver. I think as a leader, you have to be able to figure out how are we going to get to the solution, but also, and you don't have to have a solution. It's like the collective is going to come with the solution. But also as a leader, you want to be able to understand what the problem is. It's super important, right? So to do research to understand what is the problem. I like to leverage the 5 whys. It's why is that? Why? But why, why, why? Because sometimes we stay at the surface and we're like, this is the problem. No, but what is the root cause? So being able to do a root cause analysis helps you peel the onion of the situation you're facing, and then you can go deeper and not solve for the shallow and superficial problem, but really go at the root of the problem, and then you can solve for the right thing. So, and I think number 3, I would say, how do you get things done? There's a book I love that my little sister showed me is Better Than Today, Better Than Before, Better Than Before, and she had to read this. And then you have to understand your your working style. There's some people who have a working style that is like they're chipping away for months on a project, and there are people like they just charge through. My working style is charging through because you have to figure out— and there's different things, right? Insights Discovery can help you find your personality type, or Myers-Briggs, 16 Personalities. There's all these tools, and when you do personality testing, What's interesting is you can understand what part of work do you like, do you like more? And it's interesting because when you manage people, you have to understand also what is their superpower. Some people like to spend a lot of time analyzing, right? I manage a sales team. Some people like to analyze, build framework, et cetera. They didn't like to pitch that much, right? So then how can I help them spend more time analyzing, build the frameworks for the whole team, And then when they build these frameworks and the team can pitch them and then making sure they still pitch the frameworks, but in a way that they're becoming like consultants in the team and that gave them a lot of energy. So that's another superpower. So I think for me is I understand my work style is I'm a charger, so I just need to charge through. So if I have a strategy, I'm probably gonna do it in 2 weeks, right? And then I'm going to keep iterating after. But that's how my work style— I'm just going to go in, go out. So, and so understanding this, and if you're a charger and then you work with people who like to chip away for 6 months, then you're gonna have a problem because the chipping away, like, ah, it's gonna get done, you're just gonna get tired of, of like the chipping away. But you have to communicate how you work, and then that you need to have an— like, for me, I need to have an MVP very quickly. Just for this podcast, I'm not gonna chip away forever. I'm gonna get a couple of episodes and then we're gonna release and then we're gonna keep chipping away because that's a project that's a bit infinite. You can have an infinite number of episodes. And for me, I need to, I like to get things done. I like to get, I need to be able to touch, feel, and complete a project. Got it.

So going back to your career in the tech world, So you're in Silicon Valley and most of the people are like guys and you're a black woman. You're born in Canada. Your first language is French. Did you feel that the fact that you were different, was it a pro, was it a con? Did you think that it allows you to think outside of the box because you were not raised the same way and you were like, different in a way than most of the people? Not all, but most of the people?

Yeah, I think it's a great question.

I try to have great question.

Thank you, Rebecca. I think I didn't know I was different until I was different. I think moving to the U.S. from Canada, people made me feel that I was very different. And it's like, I think race people in the United States lead a lot with race. For me, it's not— like in Canada, of course people said things, but not at the extent of the US where it's like, oh, we're gonna make sure that you know that you're different. And it's just something, it's just in the culture. That's my personal experience, that people had to remind me that I was black, that I was very black. In terms of my skin color, it's very black. It's not— okay, if you want to insist on that. And people ask me things like, are you more French, are you more black? And I'm— what is the— where are we going with this conversation? So I think people spend a lot of time around the identity, and especially like racial identity. And when you study anthropology, you realize that race is actually not applicable. There's a human race, there's a dog race, there's Right? And there's breeds, but there's a human race and then there's different ethnicities. But I think this, this, there's a separation there, uh, a little bit everywhere. I think for me, I felt different. I always thought my difference was my superpower and, and I liked it, but I also felt different because I was an artist, uh, a former artist, very creative person in the world of tech and the world of tech. Engineering base first and, and the companies that were created by engineers. So you have to think like an engineer. And in the end, I think I bring a lot of creative problem solving and I didn't realize that. And that's why I was flucking around design thinking because it was a good way to be creative. And I came up to tech with a lot of different ways to solve a problem that really accelerated my career drastically. But if you would have asked people, why is Katheline Jean-Pierre able to solve all these problems? They would not say, oh, because she had all these different careers before. She was an artist. They would just say, oh, she's good at it. But it's that my journey before brought me to become very creative in terms of being a creative problem solver. And then I'm different 100%. And what I've learned is like to change the narrative and to be able to bring my difference to the table and triple down on that, right? If I would introduce myself to someone, I would say, hi, my name is Katheline Jean-Pierre, and sometimes I'm French-Canadian from Haitian origins. And how it's going to show up, it's sometimes my accent is going to go to the roof. Sometimes I'm not going to know what you're talking about when you talk about football and baseball. Sometimes there's French words that are going to be thrown in the room But what I promise is you're going to have fun, we're going to be entertaining, and I'm going to solve your problems like nobody before. So, and then we were able to build and create some very productive relationships. We're able to get things done, like really, like I got my teams to triple-digit growth when the average of some programs were double-digit growth. So extraordinary performance based on unique problem solving, lateral thinking, system thinking, creative problem solving. That's coming from having multiple careers, coming from speaking multiple language, coming from living in different countries as well. And I do think that's a key differentiator, that if you just stay at the surface and like, who's this, why is she speaking like that, you don't get to the richness of diversity. Equity and inclusion is the contribution of My contribution has been tremendous to my, in my scope in tech, cuz I come and I solve problems in the ways that most people don't think about solving. And it could be nerve-wracking for other people. It's like, why? But why do you wanna do this? So I think I had to like help people decode me and I had to spend a lot of time decoding people. And in the end I gave them extraordinary results.

Yeah. Which is the only thing that matters in the end. That's what I think.

I think the results matter. I think people flock around people they're extremely comfortable with. So I had to learn how to make people comfortable. And it was humor, sometimes different, sometimes it's decoding myself for them in advance such that they could understand me and not be like, who's this? How am I— I don't know, because there's a discomfort sometimes because people are so afraid of like saying the wrong thing. When they're around someone who's different. Well, interesting.

So, so you have a career, you have several careers, and on top of that, you became a mother a few years ago. Yeah. What was— do you feel was the impact on your motherhood, on becoming a mother, when it comes to your work and your relationship and your career?

Yeah, that was a big, big one, because this becoming a mother and this journey to becoming And the outcome is like, I have a son and I, I delivered, but the journey was very hard. In 2017, I had a miscarriage and, um, I was pregnant of 12 weeks. It was very, very painful. And then a couple of days later, I went back to work and I didn't take the time to grieve, right? And then after that, we relocated to Los Angeles cuz we wanted to have a better, no commute or limited commute and have a better balance. So that I could become a mother. And then we had a long journey of IVF, which is taking a lot of hormones, 4 or 5 cycles. So that journey of becoming was a hard journey, and it was very hormonal because you're getting— you pump yourself with all those hormones. The first thing I could think is like, oh my God, the poor chicken.

I mean, it worked though.

It worked, but it leaves you with an impact that will never leave you.

Yeah, the chicken, they do that, then they die. You, then you get a baby. The result was more fun than for the chicken.

I think the journey was that, doing all these rounds of IVF, and I being very hormonal, and then at work, I didn't tell my boss, and my boss was like, I was in a one-on-one with him, and I'm not someone who's gonna cry in a one-on-one. I started crying. And he was like, what's going on with this woman? I should have told them what I was going through. And even today I have a hard time saying, hey, I'm doing this. You know, I should have told them. And he told me, you should have told me, right? Because overnight I was— when I was doing my IVF, I started crying in my one-on-ones and I was like, what's going on with her? And it was all the hormones. So I think what the journey of becoming a mother made me more empathetic. I was always teary-eyed. I also had, after I delivered, I discovered I had postpartum depression. And then I looked into it, 40% of women have postpartum depression. And I was like, "Oh, me? I'm like the happiest baby." Remember I told you I was a happy baby?

A happy moja at 5 years old.

I know. I was always, always happy. And then suddenly I was like sad and teary-eyed. I would go in my team meetings and start crying. And people were like, "What's going on with this person?" So there's a journey of becoming a mother that's very intense. And then you become very sensitive, very protective. When I had my son, it was in Cedars-Sinai in Beverly Hills. And I remember he didn't even fit in the car seat. And then I was like, "Oh my gosh, I need to protect my son from the world." And that became my life mission. I need to protect my son. And I was so afraid because it was so small. It was like 7 pounds, not even, 6.9 pounds. And I was like, I was like, I need to protect him. And then I think when you become a mother, I had gained 65 pounds. So I felt like a blob. I was like, who am I? I just couldn't find myself through the layers of fat. There's all those things that happen as well. I had like all those things like water and I was bloated. It's all those things you don't know, and then it changes the sense of self. Then the person that you knew first, you don't know, am I ever going to become me again? And what I realized is that I became better because I became more empathetic, more sensitive. I, um, I care about my son. I'm obsessed with him. I care about children in the world, and then I care more about the world. I care about the world and, and he's 4 years old. By the time he's 30, if we don't change, if we don't take the actions to be able to turn around the climate urgency, he's not going to be able to live in this world the way that we've grown up and we lived.

So do you think that basically if you wouldn't have had a child, you wouldn't have created Driving Impact?

Probably not. Interesting.

Probably not, because that had a huge impact. Yeah, great driving impact.

Listen, I think maybe it was part of my karma that I had to have a miscarriage, that I had to go through all those hardships, uh, IVF to become sensitive. Because it's something that I realized recently. When I was a writer at 17, I was very intuitive. And recently my intuition came back and I woke up and I was like, what happened? I think going through tech and engineering world where you're like a little bit of a machine, it's like you're gonna drive this and drive that and make your numbers. And I was managing like $800 million, almost a billion dollars, right? So you gotta wake up and do whatever you need, like drink all the coffees to be able to show up, to be able to deliver in tech. And everybody's obsessed with being number one or being the top or get— just to get promoted is just tremendous effort. So becoming good in tech, I think slowly but surely I got disconnected from my intuition because as a writer, I would write songs in an automatic fashion. And I remember I wrote a song which was called "The Daughter of the Snake." My parents looked at each other and they said, "How does she know?" And I'm like, how do I know what? And they said, well, your grandfather, his symbol was a snake. And I'm like, what do you mean? And anyway, long story, my grandfather was a voodoo priest, and his symbol was Damballah, which is the serpent. So why I'm talking about this is because I was very intuitive when I was a writer and when I was a creative, and then going to tech, my intuition kind of disappeared from the coffee and the wine and the food, whatever you do to kind of like feel good and to keep going. I became desensitized. And then becoming a mother, moving to Los Angeles, doing the IVF, having this postpartum depression, my intuition came back. Interesting. And now I realize, oh my gosh, what are we doing? What am I leaving for? Not just my son, but everybody. I care about all the children. What are we leaving to our children? What are we doing? And then that made me pause and, and realize, isn't it— what's happening in the world is very scary. So I'm guilty of sometimes putting my head in the sand and just running away. I don't know about it, I don't know how. And with Driving Impact, I'm taking the courage and having the courage to go into these uncomfortable areas, right? Climate urgency, and that we don't want to deal with it because it's overwhelming. I don't understand it. I don't know who is saying the truth. I don't know who to listen to, right? When we look at climate urgency, the future of cities, the future of food, everything that's racial equity— another hard topic that's like, ugh, we're gonna talk about this and it's like gonna bring me down. So how do we make it digestible? How do we invite the right speakers, right? And if the audience has ideas How do we invite the right speakers who are going to bring information? And maybe some of them are going to contract— contradict each other, but that's part of life. And then my job is going to be like to figure out what are 3 things you could do, right, to change the course of like global warming, carb— CO2 emission, right, carbon, water. Like, what can you do to drive impact? Not like a million things, 3 things. What can you do for social justice? What can you do to help with racial equity, affirmative action? Those are all areas that are very uncomfortable that honestly, we just want to be ostriches and just put our head in the sand and just like, no, I'm going to drink my coffee, go to work, and then have my dinner and watch some show on TV and feed my, feed my children, go to bed and just do it all over again. Because we're in a culture that we want to, with a bit of an hedonist culture where Yes, we want to work hard, but we want to have fun because we work so hard. And then sometimes all those social justice are uncomfortable and looks hard. So Driving Impact is supposed to help us give some digestible facts and as best as we can, right, to the population such that people can drive impact. Baby steps, not like massive action, small action. If every person can take one small step every day, that's how we can create a better world for for all, for our children, for people's children, for the planet.

With your career and all those different experiences, what do you think is the one thing that people need to do to be successful in their career? If there would be only one thing that if you do that already, you're going the right direction.

My one simple thing is how do you become a problem solver? Not just a problem seeker. And multiple people talk about it. People love to book one-on-ones with me and tell me what the problem is, dissect the problem. But when it's time to raise their hand, who wants to tackle the problem? The ostrich syndrome comes back. Everybody puts their head in the sand and run away. And they're like, you leader, you're gonna solve it. But the thing is that people need to know is the path to becoming the next leader, and whatever the ambition is, the next step or the next big step. And you got to become a problem solver, right? And there's some stories of like that people don't talk about is like, for example, Larry Page, one of the co-founders of Google, and the role of Sundar Pichai. So apparently the rumors say that Larry would come talk to his team and then leave the room, and then people would be like, What did Larry say? What does he want? Sundar would be like, let me break it down for you. So he's able, right, to translate and make the complex simple to be able to drive impact and to take actions. And he was like this translator of Larry. So how can you become this person who can find solutions to the problems and then come with a couple of solutions or ideas, or even just having the willingness of solving the problem. Because a lot of people, they come and it's like the complaint desk and listen, become a problem solver in your organization. It's going to change the world. People are going to put you in rooms that you didn't have access to. Sometimes me, when I didn't know how to solve the problem, but I would volunteer and I was very interested in solving some problems. I remember when I was at Google, Vice President Allen, Tiger-san, Alan Tiger-san, just said, how do we solve for the discrepancy in terms of like women and men across levels at Google? And I started thinking about it, and I created this program back in the days in 2015 that was called the Coffee Club, which is a leadership development program for women at Google. And it was a transformative leadership program, and I ran the program for 7 years, which is hard. And it was basically, you had 90 days to tackle one goal in your career. One goal, baby goals, right? And the goal could be like speaking to a big audience, could be having a lunch with somebody that you're afraid of having conversation with. So we organize all the goals and then you would be coached, you would have a peer cohort. And then we finally, we had thousands of women around 20 different Google offices. Around like Asia. You had people in Asia, people in North America, you had the people in South America, you had people everywhere in the world, right? We had 20 chapters from India to Singapore to Silicon Valley to just Google Search to YouTube to all Google Play to Google Cloud going through transformative experiences that gave them the courage to go after that promotion, change country, change career, etc. So I think that's how I was able to drive impact by focusing. You got to focus on the problems that are important to your leaders. So become a problem solver, not just a problem seeker, and focus on the problems of the most senior person— people in your organization, and they will carry you through because we need more problem solvers.

Yeah, it's, it's funny because I'm a producer and problem solving is the number one thing like producer have to do. So I remember once I shot a movie, I rented a house in the valley, and so we're shooting the movie, we started to shoot and we were shooting outside. So we have like a lot of technicians, it's very expensive. And then we start shooting and then the neighbors, the neighbor has two kids playing in the garden and everyone looks at each other like, what are we gonna do? Like if they keep playing, we can't film because of the sound and we already spent thousands and thousands of dollars on technician and And it took me about, I don't know, maybe 10 to 15 seconds. I was like, okay, I know what I'm going to do. I go, I went, I knock on the door. Hey, mister, how are you doing? Oh yeah, your kids, they're playing in the garden. I didn't go and say, can you put them inside? He would have been offended, would have started screaming. I was like, what? Why would you like to go to Disneyland? He's like, what? I was like, yeah, I give you money right now, but you go to Disneyland so the kids don't play in the garden because I rented the house. And I give them, I forgot what it was, like $300, whatever it was, and they went to Disneyland. And for me, that's what producers do. It's like they find solution. If we just say there's kids playing outside and we can't shoot, it's not a solution, it's just a fact. Yeah. You have to find solution. So it's funny that you say that, that's the main thing, because I think that's what producers do. But yeah, I think when you have a successful career in whatever you do, you're producing the career.

I think you're a good producer because you helped us find this studio here.

I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be, but I love finding solutions and I love the idea of thinking outside of the box because if you want to go frontal and start telling people don't go outside, why would they do it? You have to find an incentive. You have to find something that they're going to be like, oh, okay, I'm going to do it. Going back to your career, what do you think was the biggest thing you learned from it so far?

I learned that I could do anything. That's a good lesson. Because I've done that, like, almost everything, right? If I had to, I would become a coder, but I was like, eh, if I don't have to. I mean, I did jobs where I had to code. So I learned that I could do anything. I'm not passionate about everything. But I could pretty much do anything if I want to, but I have to want it. And I have to be willing to put in the work, and I'm talking like beast mode work, not like, "Ah, 1 hour here and there." No, I'm talking like 16-hour days where it's like that's all I do. Like, I can do anything, and I think anybody who's able and has access could do anything if they're willing to put the work, and you need to have some background, right? You have to be able to read, I guess, to code or whatnot. I think nothing is— everything is possible if you were willing to work for it. But it's not sustainable always. Sometimes working hard is extremely, extremely painful. Yeah.

And with— can you like, like list like one or two moments that you were like, I made it? Like something that you achieved that you were like, you knew it was going to be hard or whatever and you worked so hard that then you got a real success out of it in the sense that you achieve your goal. What was the, the thing that you were like, wow, that's amazing that I did it?

Yeah, I think moving from Montreal to Silicon Valley was a big move for me. Big move because it was a dream. I had a, a dream board that I manifested when I was in Montreal, and I said, I'm going to San Francisco, it's non-negotiable. So when I moved, I was like so happy. I was just, "I did it! Yeah!" I think that was a big milestone. I think another one was, I mean, getting promoted at Google a couple of times. It's hard, right, to some of the senior levels. That was exciting as well, because it was a big deal. And coming to LinkedIn was also as a senior director, which is a managing director between director and VP level. Was also a big deal because I was in a program at Google for Level 7 women, which are like just under director, where we had to visualize getting to that director level. And then I think a couple of months later I got the job at LinkedIn. And when I left, I was leaving for LinkedIn, my VP said, which director job do you want at Google? I said, I said, this one, but I feel like I have to try something new. And I'm so happy I tried and I, and I left Google because LinkedIn was the beginning of this, is leveraging, amplifying my voice again. And, and that's uncomfortable in some shape and form, but having the courage to own your voice, not for you, but for all the people who need to hear the message, for all the people who are inspired by your voice. And sometimes it's women of color, sometimes it's Black women, sometimes it's men, sometimes it's neurodivergent people, whoever that is. Some people are passionate about your stories and your—

can I ask you, what is a neurodivergent person? Because you said it twice, I don't know what it is actually.

Yeah, that's a good question. So there's neurotypical and neurodivergent. Uh, neurodivergent is, uh, a person who just wired differently neurologically. So you could be ADHD, you could be having Asperger's, you could have— you can be on the autism spectrum, you could have, um, different types of, like, bipolar. There's a slew of neurodivergence, um, but I think it's important because if you can tap into it, it could be a superpower. If you can't, if you don't have access to all the help and the care to direct that divergence, then it could be a huge hindrance, right? For example, for autism, there's a lot of people who are autistic people who cannot get jobs. They probably were not diagnosed. They probably didn't have access to all the services available. Their parents, maybe they never navigated the system. A lot of autistic people can't speak, but if you can go through the different levers and levels, like my son is, um, ASD level 2. And we caught him very early. So now he speak, he's like, he's developing extremely, extremely well. But we're atypical as parents. We became obsessed, obsessed with finding all the care and like triple down on speech, triple down on all the therapy. And now he's at the level of any kid and he's, he's almost 4. So, but not everybody has access. Not everybody has parents who have, know how serious this is. So it's providing access to people and then managing neurodivergent people even if you don't know that they're neurodivergent. People don't want to tell that because they don't want to be like— it's like the scarlet letter. Sometimes people are judgmental in organizations. So being able to know that, listen, this is how I'm going to manage this person, I'm going to help them thrive no matter what. I don't need to know color, where they're coming from. The neurodivergence is— this is my person. I'm going to help them succeed. Cool.

So now that you're working on driving impact, what's your goal in the sense of your legacy and what's the next step for you when it comes to driving impact?

I think the goal is turning around the trajectory of the climate urgency on the planet, right? So we don't have a lot of room. We have 10 years. Maximum to be able to turn around the trajectory. Then we're gonna reach a point of no return, and the moment is now. And oftentimes, like, all the ostrich syndrome we talked about— we don't want to hear about it, we don't know what to do, we get overwhelmed. There's people dying from wars, and there's like the heat, like it's happening all around us, and it's— we don't know where to go, we don't know what to do. So I think my goal, it's not about my legacy, it's about how do we help educate while I'm educating myself. It's like I'm an instigator. I'm trying to figure things out. I don't know things, and I've just decided this is— today is the day that I'm gonna stop not knowing and hiding in the shadows hoping somebody takes care of it. And I'm going to be part of the change I want to see in the world. And I'm trying to make it digestible. How do you make a topic that's not necessarily easy to digest, um, how do we help people— easy to digest— how do we help people take action? Also, we want to make it a little bit entertaining because—

Maybe more than a little, maybe we can make it totally entertaining.

Let's create a movement. Let's make it entertaining. And Rebecca, Rebecca is spiritually with us. She's in Montreal. It's her birthday today, by the way. Oh, I'm going to text her.

But it's like, yeah, I think, I think when things are digestible and entertaining while being important and interesting, then I think people react. Way more than when you lecture them, obviously, because people don't want to be lectured.

No, but listen, people scroll on all the social media platforms, like, eternally. Yeah, right. People spend, like, I don't know what the stat is, but 3 or 4 hours a day. 3 or 4 hours on social media. Yeah. Why don't you spend an hour driving impact?

Even 15 minutes.

If then 15 minutes, I know, then you can go back to your dating videos or whatever you're watching, or your dog. All those things, all those movements, the dancing videos, the twerking videos. Let's take 15 minutes to drive impact and save the planet because listen, there's going to be no more twerking videos if you're not— if we don't turn around the trajectory, right? It's like, it's just what it is. So we have to figure out who are the changemakers, who are the people who are going to help us absorb the carbon, who are the companies that need to put a brake somewhere, and how can we drive impact? And educate ourselves as a collective, right? Driving impact is a collective. It's not about me. I'm just— okay, I just feel guilty about not doing anything other than composting and doing— driving an electric car. But I want to have bigger impact. I think that's where I am in my journey. I've achieved a lot of my ego goals. Now it's time. It's time to save the planet.

That's a big goal. Thank you. I think, uh, thank you. No, my pleasure. I'm happy that, uh, we know more about like the goal and the, the, yeah, the objectives of, uh, driving impact. So it was very, uh, thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Rebecca. Thank you for your contribution, which has been tremendous in like getting us back into the, the world of movies and broadcasting and figuring things out. I'm super excited about the journey. I hope we can all drive impact together. Sounds good.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.