"Your money can't be funny." Why every tech worker needs a financial backup plan" with Lexi B.

One, my money cannot be funny. I work in an industry where they can cut you at any time. Two, I need to start mapping my career to the life that I want, not build a career for a life that I may, may or may not want. You need to go find people that can teach you stuff. You really need to find your community. I started a Facebook group called Sister Circle Black Women in Tech. All these companies have ERGs, and ERGs are cute, but the number the number of Black people that are these companies are so low. What would it look like if we almost had an ERG for all of us at all the tech companies? I want to make sure that if I'm at Airbnb and I want to go to Lyft tomorrow, then I know a Black person at Lyft that can give me a referral. Hateration is admiration. The amount of backlash that I had in the comments— and you can read them, I keep all my comments up— but the number of comments in that post where people were like, I can't believe you put emojis in this post. You need people in your life to remind who you are. You will forget. The world is like that. They will try to make you forget, but you need to know who you are and you need people in your life to remind you of who you are.

Lexi, welcome to Driving Impact, The Top 5% Method.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

I'm so, so— you have no idea how excited I am for the listeners. And for the Hive, the Driving Impact Hive. I discovered Lexie online on LinkedIn and I just could not believe her, like the whole of her. Like, I don't even know how we were introduced, but I was reading your post and I was like, who is this woman? I need to talk to her. And we'll discover a bit more afterwards. But I want to welcome you to Driving Impact.

Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I've admired you for a long time. I think that as humans in tech, as women in tech, as Black bodies in tech. We all kind of know each other-ish. And so I've been knowing you-ish for a while and a fan from afar. And so I just want to honor that. This industry is so large and so small at the same time. And to see people doing dope work that look like you, because even as a grown adult, representation matters. So thank you for that.

Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you. And for me, you're a bottle of— You're a freedom fighter. But let me introduce Lexie properly. She worked at Facebook or Meta. She worked at Twitter, which is now X. Everybody changes the name. And now she's working at Microsoft. Yeah. And we had a pleasure to hang out. And I think what's very striking about you, like in the program management track of your career at Fortune 100, Fortune 500 companies, and you're thriving and you're very, very, very, very, very vocal on the platform. Everybody, when you post, it's like 3,000 likes, reposts. It's like, it's like we should bottle you up and give courage, especially for the people who need the courage, like Black women like me and everybody else, people of color, or anybody that lived any type of trauma need the courage to have a little Lexie, uh, in their pocket. So let's kick it off.

Let's do it. Let's do it.

So I want to learn a bit more about you, Lexie, because you have this voice, you have this strength, and you work in tech. And how were you able to meet your higher self? And when I talk about higher self, I mean that more grounded, clear, intuitive version of yourself, like the best part of you, to find and amplify your voice.

It's interesting because when I think about like my life, forget just being an adult, but my life and the people that I grew up with, the people that raised me— one, I grew up in a multigenerational household. And so even though my grandparents did not live with us, The whole time I grew up in the same city that my parents lived in. And so my family was all around. I always joke with people and say when I had a dentist appointment or, you know, I had to leave school early, I, I never had a babysitter. I didn't know what that concept was. I remember being 6 years old on the playground and all the kids saying like, yeah, mom and dad have a date night and then they hire this person and they bring pizza. And I went home to my parents and I was like, I'm missing out. 'Cause these other kids, their parents hire random people, and they get to eat, like, pizza and ice cream on Wednesday evenings. And my parents laugh, and they were like, no, your grandma's gonna come over. You good. Right? And so to go back to your question, it's always been there. When you are raised by eldership, when you are raised by militant elders— both sets of my grandparents are very militant, very, like, I'm Black and I'm proud. Um, then it just comes out. And interestingly enough, I had to learn that very quickly because I went to an all-white school.

So what city were you like?

I was born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, and St. Louis, Missouri is a very racially polarizing city. One, people— a lot of people don't know it's actually also a very diverse city. We have a huge Indian population, there's a huge Vietnamese population, we have a huge Italian population, which is very specific. And I want to be clear, in St. Louis there is neighborhood called the Hill where a lot of Italians from Italy come and live because that's where their community has lived for hundreds of years. And you can actually go to restaurants where they only speak Italian. There are schools in the Hill that only speak Italian, right? So it's like very Italian.

And so we share that in common because I was raised in Montreal in Rivière-des-Prairies, which was very Italian. And like, we call So the Italians dominated construction and cheese. And cheese. So I eat a lot of cheese on my pizza. I put cheese everywhere. And it's because they wanted to increase the price. Like, you want to have a high lifetime value. And so you make sure that you create a habit of people eating a lot of cheese.

And there you go. And so I go to this school, and I'm the only Black girl at school. My mom is one of two Black teachers at the school. And so very early on, I had to learn that my mom wasn't going to be there all the time. I wasn't in her class. And so I had a lot of pride in who I is— in who I was. And I had to fight a lot of battles at 6 and at 8 and at 12 in these schools. And now when I look back on my life, all the times when I wasn't very vocal about who I was and what I wanted and why were probably the lowest, most depressing times of my life. And so I've had to fight, y'all, for a lot of stuff. And there's a lot of privilege in that fight, but I don't know any other way. Yeah.

I want to go back to your being raised by elders, and I love the idea of— so we share that a little bit because when I grew up in Montreal, I was like, the whole street was Italians and Haitians, and we would just like call our moms, old school phones, and say, oh, I'm having dinner or lunch. Yeah. So we just spent the day out. And my grandmother, Haitian grandmother, actually raised us. And she had like a raising strategy that was interesting. You know, the Haitians, we have a martinet, which is like 3 pieces of like leather that you can— it's just to hit a kid if they misbehave. So yeah, at some point she left and I was still very young, like, and then I had a nanny. So I want to hear more your experience of being raised by elders when you were in St. Louis.

Oh yeah, I was raised by my dad's parents and I was raised by my mom's parents. I was also raised like extended eldership, right? My My mom's dad died way— like, my mom was 19 or 20 years old, so way before I was even born. But for example, my mom's mother was one of 8 or 9 children. And of those 8 or 9 children, 4 of them lived in a 15-minute driving radius. So if it wasn't my mother's mom, my grandmother, picking me up from school, it was my great uncle, it was her brother, it was her sister. It was, you know, it was all these people that were somehow connected to me. My mom has multiple siblings. Many of them lived in St. Louis or were, you know, lived— I have one, she has a sister who lives in Chicago, which is very close to St. Louis. Chicago to St. Louis is like LA to San Francisco. And so I was really raised in this environment of community and blood community and eldership. Even on my dad's side, both of his parents were living. And between them and their cousins and like my grandfather's sister who lived down the street, I never had a situation where it was like, so who's going to take care of me? If anything, growing up, I think that I suffered from this idea of there's too many people in my business.

I just— I want to hear about that. I want to hear about that.

Right up as a child, I was like, I cannot wait to leave and go far away to college, and none of y'all in my business. And now that I'm an adult and I'm a mom, I really appreciate that all those elders were in my business. Many of them have passed.

Yeah.

And so now they're ancestors. But it's wild to see the same lessons that I'm teaching my kid right now and that I want for her. But yeah, elders in your business will save your life. Community will save us, especially in these times. And community requires us to thrive. And I'm really, really grateful, especially now as an adult, of how I was raised. Obviously, when you're a kid, you don't really understand how impactful this is. But now that I'm a parent, it was the best way to raise this Black militant child that I was. Yeah.

I want to hear about what are the lessons and the guiding principles, like the lessons they would share with you that made you strong.

I think foundationally, it was you need to do your best. I had a great uncle, Uncle James, who would always tell me— he was like, I don't care if you're the president, are you a ditch digger, you are going to be the best ditch digger out there. And what he was talking about was this idea of excellence of self.

Mm-hmm.

He was talking about the expectations that I should have for myself. Forget all the expectations of the world. Forget all the expectations of the systems that oppress us or don't oppress us. What are the expectations of you? Also, I remember going to his house, and he would always make pancakes and bacon. We're from the Midwest. Pork and cow are vegetables. Just get with it. And he had a series of— you know the '90s magazines, like Jet magazine? And this is like pre— Essence was around, but Jet— Jet was it. Jet was it, y'all. And he used to lay them out on the floor so I could look at them, not to read the content. I remember one told me, he's like, you need to see beautiful Black women.

Mm.

Don't look at that magazine.

Inspiration.

Looking back on it, though, what my uncle was trying to teach me was this idea of self in a world that back then told me and still tells me that I am not beautiful, so therefore, I am not worthy, right? And it was a lot of those lessons from a lot of my elders. One of the biggest lessons from my dad's mom, who I would argue I was probably the closest elder to me growing up is she was always like, have your own. You know, I feel like my dad's mother was the first very militant feminist that I had ever met. When I was in college and was studying about feminism and Angela Davis, I remember I called my dad and I was like, your mother was Angela Davis. And my dad just laughed and he said, I can see why you think that, right? And to have a grandmother in your life that was so public about that, right? We'd be at family gatherings and in front of all these men, she would say, oh, she gonna have her own. Yeah, because we can't trust you.

So having your own, it doesn't mean that real estate, job, everything, everything.

She wanted to make sure that I was equipped with the tools to not only take care of myself but build a life that I wanted. And if I found people to help me on the way, great. But if they ever disappointed me, that wasn't going to stop me having the life that I wanted. And that's also very important, especially for a woman in a world that, you know, just recently Western constitutions have said that we're allowed to have that. And so for her to be so candid and so vocal, it wasn't her telling me this in bedtime stories. It was being— she was very vocal about that in public. And she used to call me Sweet Pea. And she'd be like, Sweet Pea's going to have her own. Sweet Pea does not need you. And then she'd be the same person at the kitchen table making sure my math was done. And she'd say, you don't need these people. So these numbers going to be right. You going to have to learn how to get these numbers right. And so having these elders who are very much like, you are worthy. You will strive for excellence of self, not excellence of other people. You will be not only independent, but you will be able to have the life that you want. And if other people come in and help you get there, great. But if they don't show up or they abandon you, you will still build the life that you want because you deserve it.

That's amazing. That's like an important person to have in your life. And yeah, before, off the record, we were talking about like getting married and having babies. So having your own means also having a prenup when you get married.

Amen. Having your own prenup for everyone.

Yes.

But also, I think even before the prenup, I think that people need to date intentionally. So being raised in that, and interestingly enough, you know, I really didn't date in high school. Right. And I get to college and I'm not going to lie, I'm a little boy crazy because I've never dated in high school. I'm like, every guy, I want to go to In-N-Out. Yes, I want to go get chicken fingers. Like, right. And it was, it was very innocent. It was like, I've never been on a date before. So now I, yeah, I want you to put your credit card down and pay for this meal. I would like that.

Yes.

And then you're going to take me back to my dorm and you're going to leave, right? I'm not going to lie, I think that I lost that in my 20s because I was exploring this new side of me, like this romantic side that I didn't explore in high school. But then funny enough, like in my late 20s, I really got back to me. And so how I dated was more intentionally. And I remember the first date that I went on with my now husband. And it was very clear in that date, I asked him very specific questions. He laughs and tells people it was like a job interview because I want a list of questions, girl.

I want the whole list.

I don't want my time wasted, you know. At that point, I was like, I could pay for my own chicken wings. So since we're here, the ladies—

some ladies, when I was rebooting the podcast, they asked me, how do you date intentionally? What are your relationship principles? I want to hear all of your—

yeah, I was like, what are your short-term goals? What are your long-term goals? I was like, um, my husband and I come from two different cultures, and so I was very clear. I was like, what does womanhood look like in your culture? And what does womanhood look like to you? Because those can be different, right? Just because we're raised in a specific culture does not mean that we necessarily adhere to what that culture defines certain things. But it does influence you. So like, let me know now, what am I going to have to navigate? I was just so honest. I remember I wore my glasses. And it was like, well, now I'm old, and I don't care if you see me in the glasses. But in my 20s, I was like, you're not going to see me with my glasses. And I wore my glasses that day. And I forgot why. But it was very much like he saw the most authentic version of me. And you could tell that he was very authentic, because he was like, well, I guess if we're going to do this, let's get some barbecue and some hot wings, and I guess we're just gonna do this, right? And it was, it was a very like 2-hour interesting conversation. And I'll be— he asked me a lot of hard questions. He was like, do you want to be a mom?

What does that look like?

And I think it's an important question. I think that we assume so much. Yeah. And I was really glad that he asked it. And I remember I asked him, I said, why do you ask that? And he said, because I want to be a dad. And he said, and he said, and here are the reasons why I know that I want to be a dad. And they're bigger than just because the world said you should make babies. And he's like, so I'm not really interested in dating people who don't want to parent. Like, I love that for you, but like, we, we can't compromise on a kid because it changes your whole life.

Yeah.

And I remember having that conversation with him, and I was like, oh, I like him because he's intentional, right? Notice what he said. He was like, I have no intention of spending time with people that do not want to parent, because I want to parent. And I think that especially as women, people need to be more intentional. But in order to be intentional, you really have to know yourself. We had that date in my late 20s. I do not think I could have had my date— that, that same type of date, whether it's with him or someone else— at 20 years old. I didn't know myself at 20 years old.

Yeah, enough.

At 20, I was still easily swayable, right? And by my late 20s, because of life and capitalism, I was kind of at the stage like, this is who I am and I don't care, because you're going to crucify me if I try to be someone else, or you're going to crucify me if I'm myself. And I'd rather be crucified just being myself. It's just a lot of— a lot less pressure. And so I think that's how we got together.

Yeah, I was in Bali, I met this, uh, Haitian girl. I'm Haitian, so two Haitians in Bali taking selfies together, and, and then we became fast friends, and now she lives in Senegal. Right? She's an entrepreneur. And she— when I interviewed her for the podcast, I said, what kind of content do you want to hear? She's like, I want to know how, like, how do you define, like, a good relationship with a partner? What are the criteria you should look at? Because, like, there's a lot of articles that women are getting older, right? They're getting older. And then you have to be very intentional. You have to do a little bit of radical dating, which is like, if there's any problem or things that like you feel like a red flag, you just get out. Uh, you don't stay there, you don't float there because finding the one is an exercise of its own. So I think what would be helpful to hear from you, Lexi, is like maybe your 5, 10 questions that you ask when you were dating your, your future husband, but now your husband.

Yeah, I think the first question I asked him, I said, who are you? And that's a loaded question. Do not get it twisted. It was a very intentional question. And he said, Do I remember he said something to the fact of, do you want the resume me? Do you want the friend me? Do you want the mama's boy me? Do you want the man that I think I am right now? Or do you want the man that I am striving to be? And I said, all of them.

Yeah, that's the answer. All of them. But like, exactly.

I know another question I asked him was, what kind of lifestyle do you currently live? And what type of lifestyle do you want? I was in no place in my life where people forget that emotion and business are different. When you marry someone or partner with someone, they get all gooey up together. And I had a mentor in my early 20s that told me once, she said, Lexi, who you partner with will be the most defining influence of your career. And she said, so I want you to remember something. You can fall in love with some person who lives on a 30-acre farm and loves being in the dirt, and that's wonderful. You can fall in love with another person that has a New York penthouse, right, with a driver.

Two different lifestyles. My girlfriend in New York was dating guys like that. She's like 35+. One guy, he had a farm, and the other one is a penthouse. Totally different.

Now let's pretend like they're clones of each other, right? Just two different lifestyles. And the point that my mentor was making to me was she said What lifestyle do you want? Because love is not going to help you when you are in the penthouse and all you want to do is run around half naked on the farm and get dirty. And love is not going to help you at the farm if you are allergic to dirt. Yeah, right.

If you don't like the smell of the cow poo, right?

You don't like any of those things. That takes away nothing about this wonderful farmer that you are dating. This is not about him as a human. This is about lifestyle. And it was the first time that someone really explained to me the business of marriage and how selfish you need to be in the act of finding your mate. And what she was saying basically was, falling in love is a lot easier than aligning lifestyles.

Yes.

And so what you need to do so you don't waste your time is really be clear on the lifestyles that you want. And if you can't do that yet, know the lifestyles that you don't, right? So when you're dating intentionally, if you know that you're allergic to dirt, I don't know why you are at this burrito bar kicking it with this farmer.

Yeah, yeah. If you want to travel 3 times a year internationally, well, you gotta focus on your career and that you have to value it. I don't know what the scenario is.

I don't understand. Like, and that includes, like you said, travel, right? If you know that you love travel. I think love traveling is a spectrum. I think now because of social media, everyone loves to travel, but again, just like sexuality, that is a spectrum. Does love to travel for you mean that we're on a yacht every other month? Does it mean that we literally live in our backpacks? Does it mean that we have a once a year fabulous month vacation?

Yeah, you need to down, like, down, down on the details.

What does that mean? Because you you say, and I love to travel, and you're like, I want to go to 2 countries a year for a week, is a very different conversation to someone else who says, I love to travel, and what they mean is they want a job where they can literally Airbnb a different place every month. That's not gonna work for those 2 people. And so when I had that conversation with this mentor who is fabulous, I really started— this is my early 20s— I really started taking a lot of effort into me, not into dating, but to be able to answer these questions. Because if I'm going to ask somebody else questions. They have a right to ask me these questions. And so really going back to self, doing a lot of therapy, and really getting to know who I am. So when my, you know, future husband, when he said his lifestyle that he wanted, and more importantly what he is doing right now independently to get that lifestyle with the receipts, that I could be like, oh yeah, that's kind of what I want too, right?

Let's talk about the receipts. Oh yeah, receipts. Are you talking about the financial receipts?

Yeah, I didn't ask him for the financial receipts like on the first date. That's, that's rude. But like, I think that he's also very open and honest about that as well. Like, we were definitely talking about finances, I want to say, in the first 4 to 6 months of us dating. But I remember after the first 2 months of us dating, we, we sat down and had a real conversation about like, so where is this going? And he brought it up and he basically said like, I'm not saying that I'm going to ask you to marry me right now, but I want to officially date you with intention, with the intention to marry. And so when you start having those conversations, we got to talk about some money.

Okay, so was it 2 months after? Yes. Okay, and you started the DTR, determining? Oh yeah, yeah.

And I think around 4 to 6 months. I think that, you know, between date 1 and like, I think it was 6 months where we like really sat down and had a financial conversation. We kind of, you know, we kind of twerked and tap danced around the financial conversation, right? And that's—

and you can always say more.

You can always do that. Like, you can look me up online, you know where I work. I knew where I could look him up online. I knew where he worked, right? You start meeting friends and they start telling you things about this person. Like, does it, does it track with the current lifestyle they are showing you, right? We live in the Bay Area, so, you know, Silicon Valley, everybody talks about how much money they make. This is not a private thing in tech. And by the way, I think more people should start, start talking about how much money they make, because the more public we are about that in safe settings, the more we can actually have pay equity, right? The people that he was introducing me to, his mentors, the people at work, right? And I'll be the first person to say marriage is really hard. So I am not saying date, marry for money, because you're going to be very sad. Yeah, but you need to know what kind of lifestyle you want. And when this person says, oh, I want the same lifestyle, can they back that up? What are they doing right now in their life to make their dreams happen without you? And that was very important for me to watch. So like, if this guy is at this restaurant telling me that he wants A, B, and C in 10 years, regardless if I'm there in 10 years, regardless of Sheila or Katie or Katheline Jean-Pierre in 10 years, what are you doing now to get there in 10 years.

And those are the receipts. And also making sure that the person is, uh, walking the talk. Oh yeah, important. I think that was not the purpose of today's interview, but I thought it was super interesting because I just had to flash back.

Yeah, it's important.

It's important.

I mean, he's a big part of my life. I, I'm married to him. We have a kid together. We have real estate together. So we are pretty private about like our private life. Like, you will not see him on the internet with me or that kind of thing, but It's a very important conversation when you talk about career development and not enough people are having it. Who you couple with will literally be the largest inspiration and influence on your career succeeding or your career dying.

Yeah. And also your network. And then, oh yeah, yeah, I want to jump into the career. Perfect segue. Yeah. You're a freedom fighter and we'll talk a bit more about it. You were at Twitter, it's now X, and then Facebook, that's now Meta, and now you're at Microsoft in the program management track.

Yeah.

And what is your radical career advice? Being able to spend so much time in these big companies and be successful?

Yeah, I've worked at a few more companies too. I started a company called NetApp and I was there for 4 and a half years and then I went to Airbnb and then I went to Facebook, Twitter, and now Microsoft.

Add Airbnb to the list.

Yeah, big drop. Airbnb was a wonderful company to work with. I have so many great memories about working at Airbnb. The most radical thing that I could do with my career is start decentralizing my career and my life. And to me, that means is that I feel like growing up as a child, and this happens to a lot of children, is that we ask them at a very early age, what do you want to be when you grow up?

Yes, that's too early, but still, tell me more.

It's too early. And I will say, I understand the intent. Intention versus impact, right? At least for me, my culture, I come from both sides of my family kidnapped, enslaved West Africans. So I come from a history of people— forget asking a Black kid in 1754 what they want to be when they grow up. Ask them, do they even see themselves living to 20? Right? So I know very well that when my elders and ancestors ask me what I want to do when I grow up, it really comes from this radical and militant place of, you get to actively choose anything.

Yeah.

How can we help you get there? The flip side to that, however, is sometimes intention versus impact, is that at a very young age I learned that my worth is centralized around how I labor.

Mm. Yeah.

And so I go to college, I go to Stanford, had a wonderful time. I start my tech career 3 weeks after college graduation.

Wow.

July 5th at Meta. I will never forget that. And Everything around me was, how is this career making you happy, right? Grow your career. I remember I was at NetApp for 4 years. I left NetApp. I started working at Airbnb 2 weeks later. And fun fact, I was laid off from NetApp. And we don't talk enough about that.

I have also been laid off. I understand. So you went to NetApp and then you went to Airbnb?

I did. And I was late. I was technically laid off from NetApp.

Yes, you were laid off, but you already had a job lined up.

The day that NetApp told me that I was getting laid off was the day that I was going to walk in and say I was going to Airbnb.

Wow, perfect alignment.

Well, you know, I just let them talk first.

Oh wow, wow, that's amazing. But when they lay you off, did they give you like a package or what? Oh, that's perfect. I think you're connected to your ancestors, right?

So, um, so in in that, in that a few week period, um, I went to go see a financial advisor. And this is why I bring up the, bring up the layoff. I've never been really good with money. I'm also very open about that, that that's why I have a financial advisor. But I remember getting laid off from NetApp and walking to the car and thinking, if I didn't have this job lined up, I would be destitute. I would not be able to pay my bill this month. I was living paycheck to paycheck when I was at NetApp. And even 4 years after college, was I underpaid? Absolutely. Because I was 22. And when I got job at NetApp, I didn't know about networking to negotiate. I didn't know that you could negotiate. They offered me some money and I was like, I'm 22. You're offering me $80,000. That's a lot of money.

I don't know.

Right. So I had to learn those lessons the hard way. So when I leave NetApp, I decide, okay, I'm going to spend the next few weeks getting my life together because tech is volatile. And I never want to be in a position again that if I get laid off, which let's be clear, 9 times out of 10, you getting laid off is nothing to do with you. So I can't control that. But what I can control if I get laid off is my money. And what I can control is how I get up from that.

So basically your radical career advice is to, is to make sure that you have your financially sound.

Oh yeah.

You back, you're bulletproof for, um, whatever could happen in your career in tech or in tech.

Oh yeah. And I learned that, I learned that the easy hard way. I was very blessed by the ancestors that I didn't learn it by getting, you know, evicted out of my apartment, but it was a lesson I had to learn. So I met this financial advisor and we met right before I started Airbnb. And the second radical act was when I sat down with him, he said, so what do you want to do? And I'm like, I have to save money, better use money. And for 2 days straight, I sat in his office and a whiteboard and we planned out my life, not based on my career, but based on my lifestyle. And it was the first time that someone sat down with me and said respectfully, F this job for 2 seconds. I don't want to hear about the job. I want to hear about the life that you want to live. And if we can create a map of the life that you want to live, then we can talk about the job and therefore the money you need to live that life. No one had explained that to me before.

Yeah.

So those were the radical acts. One, my money cannot be funny. I work in an industry where they can cut you at any time.

Yeah. Yeah.

Two, I need to start mapping my career to the life that I want, not build a career for a life that I may, may or may not want. And so I walked into Airbnb with these very radical new perspectives on what my career should look like, the decisions that I should make in my career. And it has taken me here, and I'm very glad I had that conversation with that person.

Yeah, that's amazing. That's good career advice. And if you have like, let's say, 2 more tips, 2 more career tips. So first is your money cannot be funny. So make sure that you build a financially savvy life based on your life and not in your career. And then what would be the 2 other career advices?

You need to go find people that can teach you stuff. I think that, and I always tell people this, I'm like, I don't think capitalism is very difficult. I don't think labor is hard. Labor can be annoying, but I don't think labor is inherently difficult. Because a lot of this stuff, all of it, you can be taught. What is difficult is social politics in the workplace. You need to find safe spaces at work that will tell you the truth about yourself.

Or outside of work, right? Oh, yeah. Outside of work, too. Outside of work. Yeah. But I was very blessed— I'm about to launch a masterclass to do that.

Yes. But, like, you really need to find your community. You really need to find the people that you can go to and be 100% unfiltered. And then they can say, okay, so now I'm going to tell you why you're wrong. I'm going to tell you why you're right. And if you would like, I could give you some advice on how to move forward. And I've been very blessed for whatever reason, finding people in and outside of work. I think it's easier to find them outside of work, but finding people inside the companies that I worked with that felt comfortable pulling me aside and being like, so you want to talk about what just happened?

Who, who are those people? People, like coworkers or like a boss?

They were coworkers. They were— a lot of, a lot of them at Airbnb, because when I went to Airbnb, it was a very small company. It was like 2,000 people when I joined. Wow, early days, early days. A lot of them were actually like executives at Airbnb that I would happen to be in rooms with, and for whatever reason, they were like, can I give you some feedback? And I'm sure. And they would give it to me, and I, I love feedback. And so I would listen. I would— sometimes I would challenge it, sometimes I would listen. There was this one guy at Airbnb, a white man, and he actually gave me feedback one day where he said, how you're showing up to this meeting is not going to work. And I got very quiet. I said, what do you mean? And he's like, you show up and you're very timid. And he said, and I think that you're timid because you're in a room of like, you high-ranking people at this company. And he said, but you can't be timid around them or they're gonna push you around. And he said, and if they push you around, then you will end up getting in trouble because your job is to tell us what to do.

Yeah.

And I remember I looked at him and I said, great. I said, but see, you cuss people out. I can't do that because I don't look like you. And he actually laughed and he said, respectfully, Lexi, you're gonna need to go find some people that can tell you how to do this with the skin that you're because right now what you are doing in this room is not going to bode well for you.

That's amazing because it's executive presence.

Exactly. And I said, well, do you have any Black women that I can talk to? And he said, I'm glad you asked. I will send some emails. And to have that radical conversation with this person, for him to see me in a way where he was like, I'm going to tell you that you need to update behavior. I'm going to honor that you can't do it like me, me, or you don't feel comfortable doing it like me. I'm gonna take a step further and I'm gonna introduce you to some people that could maybe give you some advice that you would likely more listen to. And so having those people in your life is very important for your career building because you're not perfect. And so you need the feedback, but you also need people that will allow you to challenge their feedback because they just wanna see you shine. They just wanna see you be your best life and making sure that how we teach you to twerk the way that you can authentically twerk and still get what you need done.

Yeah, it's really finding yourself, but also like being your higher self at work. Oh yeah, being this elevated self. Like, we see a lot of individual contributors or even managers when they come to a meeting, they could be the most junior person in the room, but they know their stuff. They find the right balance of humor, and they're able to challenge the executives the right way. Way. Yes. And that's when you find that magical, like, equation for yourself. Then that's when you become very powerful. Yeah. So I want to hear more about, like, who was— who were these Black women mentors who helped you? The amazing Lexi.

What I did was that I talked to a few of this man's folks, and he was from the government, so his people were women in government, so they weren't necessarily in tech. Talk to them. Um, still talk to some of them today. They're delightful. but one of their first things was, we're going to tell you how to do it over here, but remember, we still wear three-piece, only black or navy suits to work. So you need to find some people in tech. Then I started a Facebook group called Sister Circle Black Women in Tech. I contacted all the Black women in tech that I knew, you know, um, that I had worked with.

Why am I not in this group? You should be.

And, um, I just put them in there and I was like, um, I need— can someone teach me how to do my job, please?

Thanks.

Also in this situation when I was at Airbnb was I was like, All these companies have ERGs, and ERGs are cute, but the number of Black people that are these companies are so low. What would it look like if we almost had an ERG for all of us at all the tech companies? I want to make sure that if I'm at Airbnb and I want to go to Lyft tomorrow, then I know a Black person at Lyft that can give me a referral. Yeah, how do I do that? And I do think that the Black woman's narrative in any specific situation is different than the Black demands. So I just started this Facebook group and I added a few people and I said, add your people. And I remember this is like spring of 2017, and by the end of the summer we had over 3,000 people. And we were just, you know, community building is very beautiful. You don't need other people's money to community build. And so we would just go to restaurants. People would be like, hey, I really want to get overpriced eggs in Berkeley on Saturday, who wants Come, I'll make a reservation for 10. And we just started having these like ad hoc pop-up meetups where people could really meet each other. So now this group is like over 20,000 people on LinkedIn. And again, just celebrating womanhood and celebrating Blackness, but then also just uplifting each other. And people can ask questions and say, hey, how do I do this? And it's crazy how candid people are in the comments. Or people will say, you know what, I'mma DM you my number. I don't feel comfortable saying this online, but girl, just text me. And the beauty of that. And so that's, that's what I did. It came from a selfish place, but I was like, if anybody else wants overpriced eggs, you can come too. But I have questions. How do I get my job done?

Yeah, yeah, you, you have to build a tribe. You have to build a community. I was in the Bay Area from 2013 to 2019, where like, I, like, I would be— I was every— I was in Noe Valley. I was in Bayview. I was in I was in Los Altos, I was in Mountain View, and I did not have access to your community.

I wasn't— where was I? So 2011, I was in— I was in Mountain View, then I did a stint in Campbell. Campbell's cute. Shout out to Campbell. I really enjoy Campbell. Um, and then I moved to the East Bay. So I've lived in Emeryville, I've lived in Alameda, and I'm currently—

I love Alameda.

Oh my God, it's my favorite place in the world. I tell people it looks like a Hallmark Christmas movie.

It's great, doesn't it? Yeah, I love— I love Alameda. And then just to plug your group, the name as Sister Black Women in Tech.

Yes, you can find us on LinkedIn.

Yeah, awesome. I'm super excited to join the community. I don't know who's in LA, but I always—

I'm always with the folks who are in LA.

Yeah, yeah, I always hang out with my Google girls. Yeah, I'm gonna open the cycle, the circle.

Yes, yes.

Okay, now I want to go into the crux of owning your voice because that's how I— like I told you earlier this morning, I was looking at your latest post and like, how does she do it? And I'm gonna pull my phone, I'm gonna read your post. Okay, that's so good. I'm like, I don't think the camera is going to see it here.

Oh Lord. Oh, the emoji post.

Yeah, the emoji post. Yes. Clapping hands asking, clapping hands candidates, clapping hands why, clapping hands they, clapping hands a new job. And frankly, none of your business. In a market that's designed to have competition, people have a liberated right to work where they want to work and leave when they want to leave. That— did it get spicy?

Was it already not spicy enough? Like, now that you read it out loud, I'm like, dang, I really put that on the internet.

But that's how you go. That's why I wanted to have you on the podcast. How are you a freedom fighter? And then I read— I like, girl, I can't even comment because I'm just still re— I'm just— I need weeks to digest this post. It's frankly none of your business. And reasons for leaving can include— and then the mic starts dropping— manager relationship, parentheses, or lack thereof, hostile work environment, The money's funny, which is one of your guiding principles. There's no passion, love is gone. Commute is too long or not long enough. Okay, I don't understand the not long enough, but we're not gonna double-click there. Racism, sexism, homophobia, misogyny, all the other isms and phobias that penetrate our societies, they don't want to leave. You call them. And then the last one, the color of the coffee cup is not aligned to your spirit. Okay, what's that?

Awesome. You know, it's funny to me. Okay, so the reason I remember the reason why I wrote that, and I wrote that at a time, you know, people were getting a lot of layoffs and I was getting a lot of people in my DMs asking me, how do I answer this question? Why did you leave your last company?

Why did they ask you that? Because you're a program manager at Microsoft. You're not like a career—

asking for career help. They're like, let's Alexi, what would you say to that question? And I didn't have really good advice at the time. I was also starting to build my team at Microsoft. So, I was telling my interviewers, do not ask that question. And they were like, why not? We just want to know about them. And then I would say, well, ask them why are they interested in this job. For me, so many layers to that. One, I'm not going to lie, as a very militant Black person, I'm just like, I— when you ask me that question, I maybe take it too much, but I'm like, why are you trying to understand where and by whom do I labor?

Hmm.

That's none of your business why I'm leaving a company. To me, it sounds like a question of control. Also, too, as a person who's worked in only in tech, but I think that for all industries in capitalism, I have never left a job because I was happy. Leaving a job requires a lot of effort, and people do not want to have that conversation. Leaving a job requires a lot of effort. I know people who have been offered $20,000, $30,000 more than their current job, and they have not left because they have decided that type of money is not worth the leap.

I mean, it's not all that good taxed, taxed.

Like, you have all this social capital at your current job. You like your manager, you like the work that you do, you like your peers and/or tolerate them, you like the perks, you already know your commute, you know how to use the laptop, you know where the bathroom is, you already have your route to the meeting room, you know what coffee you like and which one you don't. And now you're going to offer me X amount of money to leave my very comfortable situation to go then have relearn all of that? No, bruh. Either A, you have to give me so much money that it would be dumb for me to say no to that.

Yeah.

Or there's something currently at this space that I do not like. And I think it's important, and I told my team this, that happens to be majority white. I said, you asking somebody that who is not a white, heteronormative, assumed to be straight man, is actually inappropriate. Because if I told you the truth, you would be upset. Why are you leaving your current job? Because my manager is racist. Why are you leaving your current job? Because my manager has watched people yell at me in the hallway 4 times in 2 years and think that's appropriate. Why do you want to leave your current job? Oh, because they've moved me around 6 times in 2 years, but they haven't moved the other person who's my same peer. Why do you want to— why do you want to leave your job? Oh, because I found out the girl sitting next to me is making $55,000 more than I do, but she really only works 2 hours a week. Like, do y'all really want to hear the real—

yeah, yeah. And that happens. Listen, that happens a lot to Black people, and I don't like it.

And so I always tell folks, like, when I'm hiring, I don't care if you're the recruiter, I don't care if you're an interviewer, I go through the questions, and I'm like, you will not ask people these questions. And I think especially in the current market that we're in where so many layoffs are happening— so do you want— because I got laid off and I need to pay my bills. Yeah, that's why I left my current job, right? And also, I don't personally think that any answer you give, even if it's the truth or you just make one up, is actually data that I care about. I want to know why you want to come to this job. Tell me more about what excites you about this opportunity. I'm not going to bring up more trauma. I'm not going to judge you for that trauma. I want to know why you want to come kick it over here. And to me, that data is magnificent. And so I'm just tired of people, one, being rude, two, being ignorant. I think that in our society, people ask that question because they've trained— been trained to ask that question. And I think in post, I just wanted to tell people to train, train on something else. Untrain. It's not a good question. It's, it's, it can be rude, it can be triggering, and most importantly, the answer they give you, whether it's true or false, is not giving you any information about this wonderful magical person. I do not care why you are leaving your job. And well, no, I take that back. I do care, like if you're a criminal or something, but guess what? The background check will take care of I do care about though is why do you want this job and what do you want to do here? And I, and what I do care about is you telling me about all your past experience and the work that you do and how it relates to this job. That is data that can help me as a hiring manager decide if this is a good fit for you. But trying to understand why you left your manager for any reason, you could be like, I didn't like their shirt. And I'm like, you have the divine right to not like Right.

It could also be like a toxic— but I want to look at another post that you have that I love. I really love this post. I'm sorry, it's not supposed to be— I just— it's like, I want to understand, how do you find the courage? I'm going to read this one. Some of you are fighting to be in rooms that actually don't deserve you. Yeah, think that through. Read that again. Take action. Not every room is for you. And there is always a reason for that. Focus on you, drink your water, and mind your business, man.

Always.

Oh, this is so good. This is so good. And then that one, I got 2,468 comments. Like, where is this coming from? Like, are you like— like, do you do like spiritual work to find your, your voice? Or like, how do— how does one find their voice? Because you, for you, it's obvious. I'm just gonna tell you my story, right? I've been through everything in tech. I've been in tech for 20 years, right? I worked like around the clock. I won all the awards, all the awards. But if people knew how hard I had to work just to stay where I was, even if I was number 1, number 2, number 3 in sales, there was always somebody, there was always some haters. Yeah, we're gonna say, ah, but she's not really doing the job and stuff. What I like is when I, when I leave those jobs and the people who said I was not doing the job and then destroyed my teeth— I hate that they destroyed my teeth— but they were like, oh, Katheline Jean-Pierre was very good. Yes, I was. Yes, I carried a third of the, of the quota for everybody else. But they were haters too busy and you listened to them. So I think my— and I could post that. Why don't I post that? I don't know. I don't even think about it. But how do you find your voice? And I'm saying for all the people. And the thing I wanted to share is that for me, I was heads down at Google in sales, where sales is like hamster wheel.

Intense.

It's like nobody cares if you finished the 16 quarters at like— no, this quarter you're at 85%. Oh, and then everybody emails you and pings you, all the managing directors in the whole line. So I think my question for you is, how do you find the courage? Because when I left Google and I went to LinkedIn and I was I'm coaching C-levels on like how to elevate their, amplify their voice. Everybody is paralyzed and then they find a way to do it. But then for me, they ask me, do you even do it? And I was like, uh, cause I was paralyzed as well because you can do your job heads down, but when you become vocal, when you get yourself out there, and right now I post every day, I don't care, unfollow, whatever. I'm just, I'm, cause I'm, I'm, I freed myself up, but how, like you still, and I'm, I'm not in a corporation, so I don't really care what people people think, right? I've become the freedom fighter. But how do— how have you become a freedom fighter and found your voice and feel comfortable saying what you have to say online? And do you ever, ever have backlash?

Yeah, to the backlash question, the answer is yes, but I don't know of it, and that's okay. I always tell people that when you start saying things or doing things publicly, there's always going to be somebody that doesn't it. You have to be comfortable with people not liking it. And from a very early age, I was very comfortable, even as a child, with people not liking it and/or people not liking me, right? Remember, I went to an all-white school. I didn't have any friends at school.

Like, so, so you had no friends? What did you do?

I had, I had friends outside of school, but you know, as a child, school takes like 90% of of your existence, right? Monday through Friday, 8 to 3. My mom was a teacher at my school, so we weren't leaving the school till like 5 or 6 because she had to finish up her work. And then on the weekends, you're doing homework. So as a child, whether or not you're in the school building, school takes up a lot of your life.

Yeah.

And I didn't really have a social life at school. I was always fighting battles. So at a very early age, I had to learn that some people are not gonna like me, and that is Okay, if you don't like me because of something that I've done to you, then that's your business. What people say about me when I am not in the room is not my business. And until you decide to make it my business, I will not spend my life trying to learn what it is. And I had to learn that at a very, very young age. Also, as a young age, I was really active, involved in theater and musicals. So I think that's also one reason why I'm really good at taking feedback back. Because when you're 6 years old and you're going to auditions and you just don't get them, you have to learn to have a hard shell of like, I did my best and it didn't happen. The number of times growing up I would go to auditions and I would kill the audition, they would say you were the best one at the audition, and I wouldn't get the part. This is musical.

What's the rationale for you not getting the part?

This is, this is theater. You can— I remember one time, I was about 16 years old and we I was auditioning for Aida. I had gotten into the show. I was a background dancer. What people don't know is that you audition for shows, and then if you get the show, there's like mini auditions in between the show. Unless you're the star of the show, there's always these little extra parts, right? So every day at rehearsal is also low-key an audition. It's like, well, maybe if I do good, then I'll get extra 2 minutes on stage. And I'll never forget, we were trying to choreograph this number And it's a fashion show. So for folks who've seen Aida, in the middle of the show, the princess, who's the star of the show, basically has this whole ridiculous narcissistic song about how she loves clothes. And it's amazing. It's great. It's like narcissism at the most fashionable level. It's one of my favorite scenes in musical theater. And so her servants have to do a fashion show. And I'll never forget that day. It is 90 degrees outside, and they have 20 3 background dancers who are already in the show, were already booked for the show, auditioning to be the main 6 dancers in this one scene. Well, I made it to the top 7. I didn't make the cut. In front of everyone, the choreographer was like, you're out because you're too short.

Wow. And not in your power, nothing you can do about it.

I cannot help that I am 5'2". 2 and a half on a good day, and I was wearing 5-inch heels. But all these other girls were like 6 feet without heels, and now they're wearing 5-inch heels. So it looked weird. And I'll never forget, my mom picked me up from rehearsal. I cried for 2 days. And then we had a tech where you see the whole show, and my dad came and sat because I was a child. He— but my parents always come and sit to make sure I was okay. And he knew about all the drama, right? And the scene. And I was like, Dad, make sure you watch the scene. They're not good. And I remember I got in the car after tech and I was like, so what'd you think? And he literally stopped the car and pulled over the side and he was like, my honest opinion? I was like, yeah. And he was like, you're a better dancer, but you would have looked a hot mess next to those 6'4" dancers.

And I was like, I don't even know why they let you audition. Because like visually you—

honestly, it's funny because my dad said that and my mom, when we got home, we were talking about it and my mom was like, I think they let her audition because they like her and she's really good. And they were just trying to figure out like, how could we make this work?

Yeah.

And it was like, you can't make this look— like, imagine like 6 feet, 6 feet, 6 feet, 5'2". Like, it's just—

unless you're the center character and all the attention is on you.

And guess what? I'm not. I'm a background dancer. And the woman who played the central character, fun fact, she was 5'2". She was also small like me, but she's the star of the show. It doesn't matter, right? And so because of that, I've learned that, like, what people think about me in rooms that I'm not in, I can't— I refuse to care about because it's going to bring me anxiety. And what I've also learned in my career is that y'all are gonna hate me if I'm myself or if I'm not. So if I'm gonna go down, I'm gonna go down being myself. And I think that that's where my voice comes from. My voice also comes from giving a voice to the voiceless. My voice comes from the people who are, you know, constantly like oppressed at work, and they're just like, this doesn't make sense, because I've also been there as well. And so I think that as I started climbing my career bit more and therefore be more comfortable about being vocal about my pain and what I've gone through is I found this very creative way to say, okay, I'm not going to explicitly talk about my stories yet. I don't think I'm ready to be like, and girl, let me tell you what happened in 2016 on a Thursday. But how do I find ways to make the lesson and the point across? And I think a lot of people don't realize a lot of those posts come from experiences that I was in. Every time you read a post on LinkedIn, best believe I was once the person who needed to read that post. Hmm. I just haven't told you the full story and I haven't named names.

So you don't have a book coming up or—

No, but I tell people at some point I will profit from my pain. I'm very public about that. So when, when, when that happens, I would, I would love to write a book and I would love to be a lot more honest about my journey, but I haven't, I haven't gotten there yet. So for me, the posts are how can I, how can I help people out? How can I encourage them? Also, like, how can I heal the inner me? Because I've been through some stuff in my career, just like you've been through some stuff. So how can I heal the inner me without necessarily giving all the tea yet? But yes, yeah, yeah.

No, I think the process of healing is up is, is important, and fighting for your freedom. And I love how you do it. It inspires me a lot. And I, I hear now how you find the courage, because it's funny, I was a performer as well. I was, um, I was a recording artist. I had a record deal. I was a rapper.

Yeah, you were a rapper?

French rapper.

Yeah, I love this. I, I want to hear records. We'll do that offline. But I love this.

I love this. I can play an excerpt, but I think it's more about— it's more about like, I was unleashed. I was on stage when I was 5 years old. Yeah, right. I was on stage when I was 5 years old.

I had—

I dominated. When you're 5-year-old, like, you talk about like, who you want to be when you grow up. Yeah, it's so funny because me, I said at some point when I was a little bit older, 7 or 10, I said, I want to be a journalist. I want to be able to travel the world and— yeah. And that's what I'm like now. I'm like, uh, I'm doing that, right? The other thing is I want to be a writer. So it made sense when I became a French rapper and I was on stage. It didn't go where I wanted to go. I wanted to be in Paris. I wanted to be the biggest French rapper, but after all this chunk of time in tech, right? And when I was a rapper, I was very connected, very intuitive, very, very like expressed. And when I was a writer, I was also very expressed, but then tech kind of puts you in some mold. Like you're in a world where it's a lot of like, it's engineers, right? Like Google, for example, is information, it's organized with information, so it's based on data. And so the process is different, consulting is different, Deloitte was different as well. But then you kind of like fit in some mold, and after you have a lot of traumatic events, PTSD and stuff— when I joined LinkedIn, I met a lot of, a lot of Black leaders, like VPs, and we all held our little up and said, oh yeah, I have— like most of people are talking about the PTSD from negative experiences. So even when you see very senior Black people in very senior roles, they also had their own experience of being bullied or, uh, PTSD from what people said, or people not believing that the work that they've done is theirs. Like me, like, oh yeah, numbers, oh, it's this, this, that. And then they gave me a new book of business after my mat leave. I started at -68%, brought it in 3 quarters to 100% year-over-year So you can give me crumbs, I will turn it into gold time and time and time and time and time again if I want to. Because I have to.

But you know, the interesting thing about that is that what I learned in my career as well, I think many times we are afraid to be our authentic selves. One, because we don't know what that is yet. It's hard to be something that you don't even can define. Two, because the world tells us you can't be your authentic self. And I think the world tells you that because the world is jealous of you and is trying to stop your growth. Growth. The sooner you start showing your authentic self at work, this is what's going to happen: the more hate you're probably going to get, but also the more love you're going to get. The sooner you start showing people who you are, you will attract the people that love it.

You will attract your tribe.

You will attract your tribe, and you will deter the people that don't. And as my grandmother used to always say, I'd rather know you're my enemy than not right? So when I started showing up at work professional but my authentic self, when I started saying what I felt at work— also caveat, you have to be good at your job. You can't just walk around and not be good at your job. That's just like a foundational layer, right? But when I started being more open and honest about how I will be treated, how I will not be treated, when I started showing these other facets like my wit and stuff at work, I started attracting a lot of people who liked it, of all different colors. And that's when I started attracting all these people who were like, let me help you. I feel comfortable pulling you aside and telling you how you can feel better. I also feel comfortable calling the most important person on my phone for you because I know that you're going to show up and you're going to show out. I also started learning about all the people who didn't like it, but it didn't matter to me because I was like, wait a minute, you don't have to like it. It is not a requirement of you to like me. I like me, and I have friends, and I frankly don't need any new ones. If Black Jesus and Harriet Tubman's ghost decide that this person's gonna be my friend, they gonna be my friend, and I'm excited for that journey. But I'm not out here actively looking for friends, right?

Yeah. And I would add to that, listen, when you start standing out, like when I started posting on LinkedIn, like the comments I got was, who does she think she is?

Oh yeah.

Who does she think she is? And then I was like, exactly that. I also had one of my friend mentor who started texting me saying, you're crazy, you're gonna destroy your career, you're posting way too much, right? So The thing is, when you find your purpose, when you find your voice, and you know, like you talked about your purpose, my purpose is to bring the light to the people who need the light by telling my story, but sharing the things that I wish I knew 20 years ago because I didn't have me. But once you find your purpose and you find your voice, then you become very powerful. And you know what, there's always going to be haters, right? Taylor Swift has a lot of haters. So you got to get used to people hating And hating is also a sign of admiration because they admire—

hateration is admiration. In my Mary J voice, hateration is 100% admiration. And then even to add to that, I would also say something to the fact that is it possible that the hate is really just jealousy and pain that they can't do that for themselves? You know the number of people that that slide in my DMs and say things to me that are very encouraging about like, keep doing what you're doing. Or even at work when I meet people, like, keep, keep showing up the way that you show up. I could never do that. And so what I'm also starting to learn is that a lot of the backlash that all of us face for whatever reason, for just existing— yeah, if you can be the bigger person, it really is really sad because it's really that person saying, oh, I I could do that. Yeah, right. I remember the post that you talked about earlier with the emojis, the amount of backlash that I had in the comments. And you can read them, I keep all my comments up. I'm like, say it with your chest, right? I don't even care what people say, but the number of comments in that post where people were like, I can't believe you put emojis in this post, and it was laughable to me. I was like, this is what you decided to work on today? OK, be blessed.

I can't believe you have nothing to do with your life.

And so I always tell folks, it is my job as a community member of the human race to show up in a way that does not make people unsafe, does not violate people, and aligns to all of my values. If I do that, you having an issue with that is between you and your God.

So somebody said, do you need an executive assistant? Every time you post, I wish I worked alongside you.

Imagine having something so flattering and so pure, and the next one being like, I just don't understand why you have all these emojis. And then the next one, something about like, I respectfully disagree, it's an important question. And for me, when I'm up at 2 AM reading these comments, I'm just like, I mean, if it's an important question for you, great. It will never be an important question for me. I don't need to know your trauma.

Listen, I could keep it at the end. I would ask— I personally would ask the question just out of curiosity, see how— because I want to know how the person is going to finagle their way through it, how good you are at bullshitting, right?

Which I'm also okay with that, right?

Listen, I left Google because I really, really, really was anxious of becoming a director. And when I— and I signed my offer for LinkedIn and it was a senior director, it was a double jump. And then my VP told me, which director role do you want at Google? He said, I have all these roles and stuff. And I said, I'm not gonna— because at Google you have to do the role and then you get promoted into it.

And I said, that's at every company, child. It's horrible, but it's true.

Yeah, I hate it. And I said, it's not like that in LinkedIn. So basically he said, give me 2 years to promote you into it. I said, no, I'm done. I said, I'm done doing the hoops and loops. I'm done. 2 years, sis.

Right, exactly.

And I said, I'm done doing the hoops and loops. I want it now because I knew that in 2015 I had an offer from Salesforce as a director and it just took me all those years to be a director. Why is progression so slow for Black people, even if they're number one, number two, number three?

I mean, it is. And I do want to honor, to honor that, right? I just, I just think for me as a hiring manager, I don't care about why you left your company and like in your position, that is a very specific reason. Yeah, I want to give space for you to tell me that because I, I ask everybody, what do you want out of this job? Yeah, what, what, what do you want if we work together as your manager, as your peer, as whatever, as someone who reports to you? In a perfect world, what can I do to help you now? Right. But as a person, I'll be very frank, every job that I have left, it has not necessarily been because this sexy company came and offered me the world. Yeah, like every job that I have left, it was like I was searching to leave. I was going through some things and I was not in the tax bracket where I could just quit and not work. It was very much like, okay, I have to figure this out, but I don't like it here. I don't feel good here.

The energies, the vibrations, the energy is off here. Yeah, the manager as well.

Every Every job that I've done, I've loved the work. I can honestly say that I've loved the work. I can honestly say that I'm very privileged that I have found what I genuinely love to do in the idealism of labor. But every job that I've left, it really has been— because I've like, you know, 6 to 9 months before I left, I was like, this isn't it. I do not like it. And I'm going to sit here and I'm going to do the work and I'm going to tolerate some things that I don't want to tolerate. Tolerate, but the next job that I get, I'm not going to tolerate that. And I can't say that for sure as well. Every job that I've gone to, it's been like this next step closer to, in my opinion, freedom of like, I'm not going to tolerate the stuff that I'm running from, from this job. I'm not going to tolerate it at the next job. And so the conversations that I was having in interviews, they were always like, so do you do this? So how do you think about this? And they were always aligned to the BS that I was navigating at the current job. But I just want people to be free, and I want people to know that regardless of what capitalism tells you, you have options, and you have the right to decide how you want to be treated. And it may take some time, but you will find that place. But you have to say it out loud. You have to say, I will be treated like this. You have to say, I only want to work at a company with pink cups. I don't understand why that's so important to you. But if that's your thing, I love it, sis. Get your pink cups. Like, I don't know, right?

Basically what I'm hearing is that you, you have to set your boundaries. You have to also be clear about what environment you need to be in to thrive and what you're going to be accepting and what you're not going to be accepting, right? What are going to be your non-negotiables? So I think that's very important because sometimes we go to a job because it's shiny, because of this, because of why, and then you're like dying inside. So I think it's important for people to know that, like, figure out what are their values at work and in their life as well, and figure out what job aligns, and then what are the trade-offs. I think that's super important. Yeah, absolutely. Like, thank you so much for your— all your wisdom. I'm so, so, so, so excited. Yeah, about a conversation. I want to close it off on an important question. Okay. How— because we know that people go through— there's a peaks and then there's a valleys, when everybody has a rough moment at work at any given time in their career and their leadership, how do you stay grounded? And do you have any practices to be able to stay grounded and to snap out of a state where you're not your best self?

Well, right now my practices are playing with my kid because I'm a, I'm a mom. I'm a fairly new mom in this journey. And so being around my kid, she is— children are very great at reminding you what is important. Yeah, that's one. Um, I would also say a really big thing of mine, even before I had a kid, was I keep my circle close. I know a lot of people, but the people that know me really intimately, it's a very close circle. And the reason for that is that I want to be able to be as safe as possible. So when I'm having bad days, I really lean into those people. Some of them are blood, some of them are chosen, but really leaning into those people. You need people in your life to remind you who you are. Yeah, you will forget. The world is like that. They will try to make you forget, but you need to know who you are, and you need people in your life to remind you of who you are. And that's also very important. And what I've learned about parenting is that parenting requires me to remember even when I don't want to, because I have to show up and show out. Yes, for my Black bougie fairy from Wakanda disguised as a little girl. I have to show up and show out for her because she's too little to show up and show out for herself. And so on the days that I just don't feel it, just being around her, I have to fake it. And sometimes you gotta, you gotta fake it a little bit to remember. And that's also been my new discovery.

Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. Of course. It's true that our babies transform our —when I was in a toxic job, my son used to ask me, Mommy, are you happy? And he doesn't ask me that anymore. That is so gut-wrenching.

Oh my goodness. These kids, these kids are like— it's like therapy. They don't even know they're doing it. I just— oof. They feel it.

They feel it. Mommy, are you happy? And now I'm like, I'm asking him, it's like, baby, you never asked me if I'm happy. It's like I know you feel like I don't need to ask questions that I know. Next topic. Thank you so much, y'all. It was amazing spending time with you, and I'm gonna keep following you on LinkedIn. Yeah, please invite me to your community, which is Sista— for people who want to join your community, Sista Circle Black Women in Tech. Sista Circle Black Women in Tech. I'm gonna join both on Facebook and on LinkedIn. Yeah, and then And yeah, super informative, super helpful. I love our conversation. Everybody that are driving impact, my masterclass is coming to become memorable and drive amazing, outstanding results. And, uh, I love our conversation because navigating the corporate world can be very exhausting. Hard. Yeah. And you are an inspiration, right? I don't comment because I still, I'm still digesting all the words. I just like, and I'm just like, I just like, it's like the energy is being transferred and that's it. But, uh, yeah, I'm gonna come see you when I come to the Bay Area. Let me know.

We're around, we're around. I'm just working from home trying to, you know, keep the kid alive, you know, the usuals. Yeah. And have a good one, okay?

You too. Bye. Bye-bye.