002 - Tommy Togiai - Resilience and Coachability

All right, Tommy, thanks for being on today. For those of you, most of you probably don't know, but my claim to fame is that I know Tommy Togiai. He and I were friends in the 7th and 8th grade. And so you were also friends with my husband, so that's pretty funny.

No, yeah, I'm glad to be on. Small world. No, yeah, glad to be on. Thanks for having me on. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, of course. Not very many, not very many people make it from the small town that we live in. And so whoever makes it to the big leagues, we're just like, that's our friend.

Exactly.

So. So my first question for you, Tommy, is what is— so being a professional athlete, what surprised you about being a professional athlete the most?

I think the biggest thing was kind of like, especially transitioning from college, it was like you're more just like on your own and it's like another start over of like more of— and you got like different guys from all age groups, like in the locker room from like we had guys that are like 33 to to like 20 years old. So it's like kind of, you see like different guys. So definitely like stayed close to like my draft class, like with the people that got drafted in my draft. So like, that's kind of like one of the big things is like you kind of see like different aspects of that, of like the older guys you try to take and learn as much as you can from them. But I think the biggest thing was probably, yeah, just like getting to know everybody because you see like you're meeting everybody, everyone's at like a different stage in their life. It's kind of crazy to see. As long as football goes, it was kind of, I mean, being at Ohio State, it kind of, we were kind of prepared already, like, of like that high-level football and like receiving that type of coaching. So, I mean, on the football-wise, I didn't think I was like too much of a surprise of anything that was thrown my way. More of just along the outside of it, like in meetings and stuff like that, trying to see the game in a different view. So that was kind of maybe a different thing.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah. So people who don't know, you played at Ohio State for 4 years. You, what you mentioned that the football wasn't too different going from there to the NFL. Did you feel like Ohio State, how do you feel like Ohio State prepared you for that?

I think they did like a phenomenal job. Like right from the jump. I know I would say like a bigger transition was, yeah, coming from high school. To Ohio State, it was like a big, yeah, jump from there. Like just learning how to really like work out and all those things of like how they do things and like they're very detailed in everything they say. So I think that's like really what prepared me for the NFL and just like the coaching I received, learned a lot of things from my D-line coach Larry Johnson and Ryan Day, the head coach. Just a lot of leadership attributes that Ryan Day showed and I've learned a lot and then Larry Johnson, I mean, was just an awesome coach and like learned so much from him preparing me and getting me ready physically and like mentally. So I think a lot of things, uh, helped me from there, uh, especially like, and then even in the weight room, in the training room, uh, our strength coach, uh, Coach Mickey Moratti, he was a fired up dude. I mean, like if you met him, he'd like, he'd stand out, like you just know. So I mean, really, yeah, just taking those things and kind of just applying them and helping me into my next into the journey I am in now, really, yeah, it goes a long way.

Dang. So you said that the jump from high school to college was probably the hardest.

Yeah, I think definitely so. And from college to the NFL. Yeah, definitely.

So if you were a high school football coach, what would you do to prepare your players for college better?

So I mean, for me, yeah, like I think I would be more I mean, yeah, it's like being more like brutally honest of like kind of like the coaching and aspects of that. 'Cause like, yeah, when you get to college, there's like, there's just don't make this, like the biggest thing I would say is don't make the same mistake twice. 'Cause coaches, yeah, like be very detailed in everything you do to be very attentive to every like thing they try to give you an advice. So I'll try like, yeah, coach the kids up in a way of, like getting them, taking it one step at a time too. You don't wanna overdo anything. Like you don't need to be the greatest after two, after a week or even two weeks. It's a process of getting better each day. So I mean, that was like my thing with it. And that's kind of what I learned through college was like not just jumping right into it. Takes, it takes steps. There's day by day things.

Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that too many people, I've talked about, about this with a lot of athletes, but I think too many people especially when they get to college, they think that they have to be the best. Yeah. You know, like you just said, they have to be the best. They have to do everything they have to. But what they don't realize is they've been recruited for a specific purpose. Like they, they're good at— they have this weapon that they're really good at. And so sometimes I was talking to a baseball player who plays for BYU the other day and he's like, kids come in and they just like, they're super good at hitting, but then they just try to be mediocre at other things. Like get even better of that. And they're like, no, like capitalize on your strength. Cause that's what you were recruited for.

No, definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah. No, I definitely agree with that. Cause like, yeah, I had strengths and like, I mean, coming outta high school, I was like super strong and like, I thought like that was like all I kind of needed was just being strong and stuff like that. And then like, I was pretty quick, so I was like, okay, I'm already good. Like I'm already like, that's all I need. But it's like, it was just a whole new world, like getting into college. Cause I'm doing stuff like I never even did, like. Training in high school. So it was like, it's a development process. I think that's what some kids don't understand too, is they're recruiting you, yeah, when you get there, but you're still going to develop. It's not like you're just gonna be like, yeah, like, like we're just saying, like you're gonna be great at every area. Like it's a development through your time in college and just trying to take it, break it down to like one step at a time, one day at a time, getting better in each, each other aspect that maybe you're not so I would be that.

Makes sense. That's awesome. What if you could go back to— if you could time travel back to 17-year-old Tommy Togiai, what would you tell him?

I would tell him, I mean, don't lose— don't work— don't lose the work ethic. Stay on the path that God's planned for you. Keep your faith, and like, everything's gonna work out how it's supposed to, because I'm not big on trying to change anything. I think everything plays out how it's like, how it's supposed to be. Everything happens for a reason. So I'm not big on telling to like change too much. I'll just, yeah, keep on the path that you're on and stay focused on goals that you have. And I mean, I had goals, yeah, at 17 of going on to the big things ahead and just stay focused. And like, I would say be ready for adversity to hit because through all athletes, like especially athletes, adversity hits. So I mean, I think that's just a big thing. But through adversity, that's when you find out who you are.

I love that you mentioned adversity because I actually had a question about that for you because obviously, I mean, just seeing, seeing professionals play— I, I was watching the NFL documentary of the quarterbacks with Patrick Mahomes and Colin, all of those quarterbacks, and I— yeah, like, it, it shows us, it gives, I guess, the bystanders a better look into what it takes to be a professional athlete, and there is loads and loads of adversity. I think a lot of people see the money you guys make but don't see all of the other stuff that it takes to earn that. Like, that's high pressure. That's a lot to deal with. So can you describe a moment when you faced a setback or failure in your career that has helped you be the athlete that you are?

Yeah, no, definitely. I think like the whole, like, even like there's always little ones, but then there's definitely big ones of like setbacks and stuff. And I always like try to tell myself, I don't like, I don't believe in the word failure. It's just like lessons. So like, there's no way like you failed. This is like a learned lesson. Like, you know what to do now. Like, after that happened, like, you know how to bounce back. So I think like for me in college, when I first got there, I was like, especially coming like in high school, like I'm playing, like I'm starting, I'm playing like basically the whole game and all that. So like when I got to college, it was definitely not that way. My first, like my first 2 years really. And just like being able to use that as like a learning process of like, oh, like instead of like playing, I used that kind of like as motivation to get better while I'm not playing. Like, this is things like I can work on and things I could ask like the older guys in our position group, like of details of like how they're doing and how they see the game. So I was like, and that's always been like me, is like trying to absorb information from other guys and try to like get into, try to use it as much as I can into my own, like into my own game. But yeah, the setbacks like in college, yeah, not playing those first 2 years, I just used those kind of, yeah, like motivation and trying to get better in that way. And then even like into the league now. Like my first year, rookie year, I didn't play until like week 8. And so like even then I was doing like— I kind of leaned back to what I did like those first 2 years, like started just working, kept my head down. Like don't worry about anything else of like when am I gonna play, when is— when is that gonna happen. Like just when the opportunity comes, be ready. So like that was like my thing I kept telling myself, like when the opportunity comes, be ready, because this— you're gonna get opportunities, but it's gonna be if you're ready or not in those opportunities.

So I love that. I, I think that a lot of kids, at least these days, and I, I wouldn't say everyone, but I think a lot of kids kind of have a little bit of entitlement these days, especially in high school.

I agree.

They think they deserve their spot. Like they, they get to college and they were the, they were the it man, right? Like they, they deserve that spot. But what they don't realize is that every other person there was the it man.

Was the same. Yeah. It's the same thing.

They, that you are all superstars, right? And so I think that that's Perfect advice too for kids coming up, going either from high school to college or from college to pro is, yeah, keep your head down. Make, make yourself be seen through the work that you're putting in and like, exactly. Exactly. Be ready when the opportunity presents itself, right?

Yep, exactly. And yeah, so what, just like you said, like with the kids, yeah, nowadays it's like kind of crazy how they, I mean, especially like going on into college. Yeah, they're coming in like held in their heads high, like, but you haven't, I mean, it's a funny Funny story, I'll tell you real quick with Ohio State. Like, they make— so like in our first like team meeting with the freshmen, they like, you stand up and you got like 4-star, 5-star players and they're all standing up. But then it's like all the other players are like sitting down and they like, they go to the front and then point at you and say, you haven't done nothing yet. Basically is what like they say. So it's like kind of just like a basically like a rude awakening. Like, yeah, we haven't— like, I think that was kind of like a cool thing, even though like in the moment I was like, I was like, dang. But looking back on it now, it's like a lot of kids like need that. Like, you haven't done yet like anything yet. So it's like, it's like a fresh new start. Like you have to go prove yourself again.

How did you, with every kind of level up as you've gone from high school to college and college to pro, how have you adjusted your work ethic to meet those standards?

I think it's been a lot of learning. Like from my coaches and stuff being able to prepare me. So like, especially like high school, I like shout out to Kate Ackley and those guys and Nick Sorrell, Gino Mariani. Like, I think they always kind of always had me like, I always had like a high work ethic, but they kind of just kept pushing me to just increase my like work ethic and get better, to keep getting better. Because there's maybe times where I thought like, this is, yeah, I'm good. But now they kept me, kept me grounded. So that I appreciate them. And like my parents always too, like shout out to them, even from a young age, like they always pushed me to do like my best and keep getting better. Like there's no limit. So I mean, even with that and then going into college, it's kind of like expected. Like I think at Ohio State, like guys, they want to get you like better each and every year. So it's like, you're not just one year, you're good and you're going to stay there. It's like, nah, you can't do that. You have to like, there's other levels to getting to success and getting better. And then even like right now, like I'm, I still think like I'm getting better. Like even in year 3 in the NFL, like I'm still continuing to, trying to get better in every aspect I can.

I like that. It makes me, I guess the word that comes to mind when you talk about that is coachable. Yeah. Like you're coachable and you're hungry for growth.

Yeah.

Would you say that that's pretty accurate?

No, I said—

'Cause there's a lot of kids who I, there's a lot of kids who I feel like aren't super coachable or like you said, they think that they are better, like larger than life when they get to the next level because they were that in High school, yeah, college, but yeah, at that level, yeah, it's just, it's like everyone's, yeah, everyone's good, everyone's like at that elite level.

So you can't, it's like, what are you willing to do to go past that is the next step really, like, and then it's like having that open mindset instead of like a closed mindset. So it's like, are you willing to think you can get better or do you not think you can, like, are you think you're at your, like, you're staling out, you're done. But I think that's what happens with a lot of athletes in college is like they think they reach a level and they're like, I don't think I can get past that, but there's always, there's always limits you can break. Like I'm still, like I said earlier, like I'm still getting better to this day and still learning. I'm still trying things to get better. So I think, yeah, like you said, being coachable, which is exciting, right? Like, no, it is. Like, that's what I was saying.

I'm sorry, I cut you off.

No, you're good. Like, I'm, no, it's very exciting. Like, because sometimes I'll see guys or like, that's why I don't mind like going to different teams because it's like going to a different team, I'm learning other stuff and I'm taking like what I learned here and gonna take it down to Atlanta still, but learn what they do and stuff like that. So I mean, it's like, it always, it's only gonna help you being coachable. Like coaches are trying to help you. They're not gonna, they're not gonna make you worse. They're only gonna make you better.

When people, I always see this too, even in kids these days, I work with mainly like the elite high school athletes. And if you're not coachable, you're gonna hit a dead end really quick.

Absolutely.

And it's gonna be a lot more painful of a process. Like you're not, you won't hit the goals and the dreams that you have if you're not coachable. Like, I would say that that's probably the number one thing that you need to be. Like, you can have the most talented specimen— talented, like, just out of this world fast, strong specimen of a player— versus like another one, if they're kind of average, you know, like they're average, they're strong, they're fast, but they're not nearly as athletic as this other guy. But this one's coachable. I would argue that the coach would choose the coachable one over the insanely talented one any day of the week. Is that true? What do you think?

Oh no, I believe that 100%. And like, I think you hit it like right on the nail, like with like the coaches. Coaches see that and like understand, like coaches are always going to like players more that they can trust, especially like that was one of the big things with Larry Johnson at Ohio State. He's like, I can't play you if I can't trust you. So that was like the one thing, like the coaches want to be able to trust you. So they're getting you to that level of like that trust is built. And then like you're only making it harder on yourself basically if you're like not doing the things the way like coaches kind of trying to help you to do. Like if you want to go off on your own, it's only going to make it a harder journey for yourself. So I think like you said, yeah, being able to be coachable with those, like the, yeah, the lesser talent, maybe he has lesser talent, but he's very coachable and he's taking that coaching. So he's going to get better and he like, he's going to do to do the things right. Where if you have the other kid who thinks he's already got it all and doesn't need like as much coaching, like that's just going to hurt yourself. It hurts your— your body is probably, yeah, like you said, going to come to an end at some point. Like it's going to be harder for you.

Yeah, for sure. So beyond physical training, what like, what non-traditional activities do you do or incorporate in your routine to enhance your performance?

I'm a big fan of yoga. I do a lot of yoga, actually. I actually— and like, just like stretching in general, because like after my first year, I think that was like one of the big things. Like, I do evaluation of myself after each season of like areas of like something I did good and areas I need improvement on. So like one thing after my first season, I was like, I need to get my flexibility a lot better because I was like, I'm not as flexible. I was kind of being a lot more soreness and like maybe in some positions too, I wasn't be able to like be in because of my flexibility wasn't the best. So I was like, that was one thing I worked really hard at last year to be able to go on. And then even like this year, I want to be able to maintain that flexibility or even get better in some areas. So I see like for D-linemen, it's like you need like loose hips. So that was like one area I needed to— and like T-spine movements is like very big for me. That's what I've been like going into a lot. So yeah, yoga has helped me a lot with my flexibility. I think that's probably the biggest one. I did do get into Pilates for a little bit. Pilates is hard, I'll tell you that. I was like, Pilates is tough. I have respect for anyone in Pilates because I'm like, man, those workouts are actually— it's like you're in like these positions of like you never even thought of. So I'm like using muscles I didn't even know I had. So it's like kind of crazy in those aspects. But I would say, yeah, those are probably like the two. Like, and then like I'll play basketball still, like here and now, just to like with conditioning and just the fun of it. Like, I love basketball. Still. So, but like, yeah, those are probably like the non-traditional things I still like will do to help me going into the season.

Yeah. With yoga, do you go to classes? Do you have resources like in your facility?

Where do you— Yes. So, yeah. So we did have with the Browns, when I was with Cleveland, we did have resources like a yoga instructor would come in. I think it was like every Saturday or something like that. They would come in in the morning. So we'd do that. But then also in the offseason, I would like sometimes, yeah, go to some classes that I would just like find where I'm staying at during the offseason. I would just go to those a bunch and just, yeah, get right and like just ask the instructor like, like questions and stuff. What can I do on my own? So then like when I'm just like chilling at home or something, I just incorporate some of the stuff they tell me to do and all that.

So. So when you would walk in, would it be just like a bunch of ladies doing yoga and then it's just a big defensive lineman walking in wanting to join the class?

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, yes. But sometimes there'd be actually some other guys in there. And then sometimes when I was down in Arizona, when I was training out there in offseason, I had a couple of friends, like a teammate or— yeah, teammate. And then some friends around the league that we'd like just text in a group chat like, hey, do you guys want to go to this yoga class and stuff? So we'd go together sometimes. So it wouldn't be too awkward just by myself.

That's awesome. Um, yeah, that's so cool. I've actually, I've, I've want, been wanting to get into Pilates too, cuz I've heard that it's just different than anything you've ever done.

No, it is. Yeah. I was like, Pilates is tough. I remember after me and my first class, I was like, oh my gosh. I thought I was gonna pass out cuz it was like a heated one too. So like they turned up the temperature in there and I was so, I was like, dang, I'm dying out here.

That's hilarious. I'm sure that anyone listening to this is going to be like, who does Pilates is going to be like, freak yeah, I'm tougher than you.

I know they're like, I'm tougher than you. Yeah. So shout out to them.

That's funny. You mentioned a self-evaluation that you do for yourself at the end of each season. Can you explain more about that?

Yeah. So basically, I mean, you kind of do it like with your coach too, and like the coaches that you have that year. But I like just to do one like just for myself. Like after each season and like kind of go back and watch a little film too. Like I'll watch all my plays that I did during the season and try to evaluate, yeah, like what stands out to me of like what I could do better in like in those situations. So like if a bunch of them like pile up in that certain like same thing, I'm like, okay, that's something I need to work on in the offseason. Like that's showing up a lot, like keeps showing up. So I'm like, okay, that's— I'm marking that down. So basically, yeah. And then I'll try to incorporate things in the offseason, my workouts and stuff to try to like help improve those areas, but while still like maintaining, uh, the things I still do well. So like, but like, yeah, so from like this offseason, uh, I mean from this past season, the biggest thing was like, uh, especially like going to Atlanta, like they did a lot, uh, a different— they're kind of a different style defense from what I had in Cleveland. So I kind of adjusted like some things, like they're very big on like explosiveness. So like I've tried to incorporate some like clean pulls and like hip thrusts a lot more and like all those like little tiny things into more explosive things to be more explosive because they're playing more of like read, read, attack, defense more. So that's kind of why I'm trying to— it's just stuff like that. But yeah, I have fun like evaluating myself. I think a lot of people too sometimes they like find it like hard, like they take it too much into like themselves, like thinking it's like they don't want to evaluate themselves. But it's nothing like— I think I find like fun when doing it because I'm like, oh, that's kind of like That's like, that's showing up again. Like, I'm, I don't know, you just kind of, I don't know. For me, it's just like you're finding out stuff more about yourself, like through the film that you watch and your performance and all that. So I feel like it's cool to track that and be able to say, and then going into the next season, it's fun to see, okay, I improved this. And then you see people like, oh dang, you got better. Like he saw like in the areas that you needed to improve.

What do you think holds people back from doing that? Like, what holds people back from self-evaluations like you do?

I think a lot of people, they're probably scared. I think a lot of people are scared of, uh, I don't know if like scared or if like they don't want to face, like, they see like if themselves having an issue, like they feel embarrassed. I don't know if that's maybe the right words to use. Maybe they feel like they're, yeah, like they're not, oh, maybe I don't, I don't want to see my bad plays. I don't want to see like the bad stuff I do because even the bad plays I have, I got tons of them. Like, I'm marking those down. Like, that's a bad play, but what happened because of that bad play? So it's like just looking deeper, and it's not like, yeah, you had a bad play, but it's like you learn from that. And the only way to learn from that is seeing it, or like, yeah, of like evaluating it. I feel like that's the only way you can like get, get better, because then if it keeps like happening, it's just going to keep happening. Like, yes, if you don't like go back and watch it or see it, see the problem, how, yeah, how can you fix it if you don't see the problem?

Yeah, I think that that's super important to realize. I'm trying to think of the word that you would use for that too.

Yeah, that's what I was like.

Embarrassed, maybe prideful.

Yeah, maybe prideful. Yeah, they look prideful. Yeah, because they're like, oh, I'm like this high level. But even the high level athletes, you see it all the time, even in the Super Bowl. When I was watching the Super Bowl, I was seeing guys, some plays, I'm like, what the heck? Like, that's not good technique right there. And like, that's something like I don't know, it's just like, I like see things like that when I'm just watching the games and stuff like that. So I mean, even like at the highest level, people make mistakes. So if the top athletes are making mistakes, I'm guaranteeing you they're watching it and evaluating themselves too. So like, it's, it happens to everybody. There's no shame in having like making a mistake. It's a mistake, but then it's like what you do after that. Like I said earlier in the, when we were talking, like just don't make make the same mistake twice.

Like, do you, do you think that doing that, like going back and watching film and making and correcting your mistakes and doing all that, do you think that all of the high-level athletes like the Patrick Mahomes and the Travis Kelce, just like looking at the Super Bowl team, obviously they're some of the best of the best. They just won the Super Bowl, right? Like, will they go back and watch that game?

Oh, I get it.

And critique everything that they've done.

I guarantee you they watched it. They probably already have watched it. Yeah, I guarantee you. Because after each game, yeah, it's like we usually have a person that comes like and we'll have the game downloaded to your iPad. And I'm always like, yeah, right, getting that. So I'm like, trying to watch the game right as soon as it's done. It's like I'm watching, I want to rewatch the game, make sure, like watch my plays that I'm in, how I'd like to see, like what happened on this play. Because it's like, it's so funny, like during the game it'll be, you made a mistake, but it's like you can't really tell until after the game, like what happened. As much with like, you like talk about it with your teammates, like, oh, I messed up right here, like that. But when you really get the good, like the full breakdown, like after the game, you get the film, you get to break it down, you get to see like what actually what you had wrong. Was your stance like messed up? Did you have a false step? Or did I strike my hands in the right position? So it's like stuff, all that stuff like takes into account. But then like actually seeing that, it's just like adding mental reps to, to yourself and like just making sure like you see the moment again and again. So then when the moment arrives in the game again, you're ready this time.

I feel like that's been a common kind of subject that we've talked about today is I think that the word would be malleable, right? Like you have a piece of clay. If it's hard, if it, if you're not able to shape it, if it's not soft, like it's never gonna change.

Yeah. Right.

If it falls, it'll break. Like, those athletes who aren't putting the time in to adjust and to be coachable and to be better and to correct mistakes, they're probably not going to last long at the next level.

Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, I definitely agree with that because, yeah, being coachable is a big thing, especially in college, like even in high school. But like in high school, you see, like, you can get away with it at times. But in college, yeah, you can't. You have you have to be coachable. If you're like fighting your coach, it's just gonna, yeah, like we've talked about, like it's gonna make it harder for yourself. So it's like they're only trying to help you. Like you talked about that example, like molding the clay, like they're trying to shape you into the best version of yourself, like the best player they can like make. And like they're trying, they want the same goals as you, like to be the best player for like that you want to be. So it's like if you want to go against that, you're going against the grain, you're going to be.

Yeah, it's not going to make you who you can be.

Yeah, not— yeah, definitely not.

And if, if the Travis Kelce's and the Patrick Mahomes and all the other stars of the NFL, if, if they were to go against that grain and say, I don't need to be better, like, I don't need my coach, or I don't need to watch game film, they guaranteed probably wouldn't have gotten that ring that they just picked up.

Yeah, definitely not. Yeah, I'm sure those guys are all— yeah, especially like even seeing like Andy Reid, like I'm sure he's always finding new ways to draw up plays and stuff for them to get better. So it's like if like guys like that, a coach like that is still finding ways to get better, it should be, no, like it should be, that should be like the standard. Like there's always room to get, to develop, to get better, to always do that.

I'm driving this home and I'm pretty repetitive with this because The listeners of this podcast are high school athletes. Like, they're the ones that are the elite. Like, they're, they're getting recruited, they're getting looks from big schools. But I just want them to realize, like, it's not over yet. It's just beginning. It really is. Right? Like, just because they're getting looks from all these big schools doesn't mean that they can just stop or like they better get prepared because once they're— the recruiters might make you feel larger than life while they're recruiting.

Yeah. But once you're there, Yeah, recruiting is, man, recruiting's terrible, really. They just want, the recruiters, they're gonna tell you everything you wanna hear cuz they want you to, they want you to get to like be at their school. They want you to, they want you to come there. So of course, uh, the recruiting, they're gonna, I'll say one thing. Yeah. Just about recruiting. Don't, yeah. Like you gotta ask the hard questions. Make sure you always ask, yeah, the hard questions when you're getting recruited to the coaches. To the recruiters, mainly to the coaches though. Like, ask them, how, how do you see me in your fit? Like, in a fit with your team? Like, how do you see me? Ask them those questions. And if they— because then you'll see in their answers if they really care that much about you. I think that was something when I was early on in my recruiting, I didn't ask those things, but later on I kind of started to do, which kind of helped me out, which ultimately led me to Ohio State. Yeah, ask those. I would say to those high school athletes, ask those hard questions like to the coaches and stuff, because there's no harm in asking those questions. It's for you. Like it's where you're going to spend the next couple of years of your life, next few years of your life, and you want it to be the right decision that you make. So yeah, ask those hard questions for sure.

I think a lot of us athletes and just people in general, I think we like to almost live in a fantasy land. That we're perfect and that we don't make mistakes and that everyone just loves us and that like there's nothing that needs to be improved upon or worked on. But the things that are just going in my head is we have to look, we have to take like a hard, cold look in the mirror often to get to where we want to be. And I think that asking those hard questions is another part of that. Like kids don't want to hear that they might not play till their junior year.

Yep.

Right.

They don't want to hear that.

So they want to almost like stay in the ignorance of not—

don't want it to. Yeah.

They want to stay in the ignorance of maybe I'll play, right? I don't—

yeah, I don't know. No, I just— yeah.

What do you, what do you think are the 3— if you had to tell a kid who's getting recruited right now, 3 questions to ask a coach, 3 of those hard questions, what would they be?

I think one of them would definitely be, yeah, like I said earlier, like, how do you see me with your team? Like, what do you see my role being? And then that will give them a lot of information back based on their answer. And I think a lot of like good things will come from that conversation. I think too also would be like, how is like a lot of— I think they don't ask like— I know they meet like strength coaches and that, but like ask to join in, like watch a practice or watch a workout, like ask for that. I feel like ask to watch a workout, ask to watch a practice. Because then you really get to see like what you're getting yourself into. Like, you get to see that and see those things. And then probably the last one I would ask is just how are things like— how— maybe not even to the coaches, but ask other like student athletes there, like, how do you feel like being here? Like, how was your— how has your time been here? And of course, you might like— you might get some guys that are just telling you like, oh, it's been like all good. You gotta like try to break it down. Like, hey, don't like give me the just the what I want to hear answers. Like, can you tell me, like, how really has your time been here? Is it like— or if you missed home, has it been tough? Has it been like what? Like, things like that. So I mean, it's always— yeah, I think sometimes, like you said, yeah, like those athletes in high school aspiring for those or getting recruited or like only want to hear like the good things. Like, they don't want to hear none of the bad. But yeah, I had— I remember when Coach Meyer even like came to my house when I was getting recruited, and he was kind of just like straight up like, if you come here, like, it's going to be tough, like, it's going to be hard. Like, he's just like kind of straight up about that. And that's kind of like what I mean, kind of like helped me. I was like, oh, like, he's giving me kind of straight up, like, one of the first, like, coaches to be that way, like, say that stuff. Like, he's like, if you come here, it's not going to be easy for you. Like, you're gonna have to work your way through, uh, lineups and stuff like that. And I was like, took that as a challenge. So it's like, okay. I actually kind of like that. Like, he's telling me at least, like, it's gonna be like a challenge for me. Like, it's not gonna be just given to me. And I was like, I don't want it to be given, I wanted a challenge. So that was one thing too. But yeah, for all those athletes, um, whatever it is, make sure, yeah, you ask those questions and be able to get a good response that you feel comfortable with. And ultimately, yeah, to make the right decision for yourself.

I think that's great advice because I think that that's not really talked about a whole lot for athletes, right? Yeah. Yeah. The recruiting process is just kind of a magical, sometimes a magical time for kids because their dreams are finally coming true.

Yeah.

They want to keep themselves in fantasy land and not come down to reality and realize like, yeah, they're making me feel so special and so important now, but how is it going to be once I get there?

You know, like, yeah, exactly.

Snapping yourself to reality quicker, it's going to serve them better for longer.

Mm-hmm. Kelsey Higginson, the sooner they find out, yeah, what it's really going to be like, the quicker they can get that, wrap their head around that and get, yeah, get ready.

So I'm going to kind of change lanes here a little bit, but what, for you in the NFL, how are you having to handle your nutrition?

So that was like one thing after even my rookie year, was kind of like I had to like find a way to like be better about it because like in college you have someone there and it's like all the time, but like getting transitioned to the NFL, it's more just like on you to do stuff and be able to do all that. So like I kind of struggled after my first season, I would say a little bit with nutrition, kind of like just like with maintaining some of my weight and stuff like that. So I kind of had to find some balance because I was like, I didn't have to, you know, I was trying to just like, I used to think to myself too, like if I just work out and all that stuff, like, I'll be all right. Like, I'll be good. Like, I'm taking care of myself. I can eat and do stuff, like, or whatever. But that was not the case. So it's like, definitely nutrition has been, like, the last 2 years a big focus of mine, of trying to be able to maintain and, like, even gain weight at times. Uh, so I mean, right now I've been eating, like, 3 to 4 meals a day, but a bunch of, like, snacking is big for me because, like, definitely, like, just to maintain my weight and then also like to still build on to like build muscle and stuff like that. So big snack, like I'll be snacking throughout the whole day. And shout out my wife, she keeps me like make sure I'm always like trying to like make sure I'm eating something because she knows like I lose like weight fast. So she's like, make sure I'm just sitting on the couch, she'll like bring me a snack or something, like make sure you're eating and stuff like that. So I mean, that's really been good by her too. Appreciative of her for that and Very easy. Yeah. So I mean, just like on that side of it and then talking just like with my nutritionist from each team of like ways to, uh, like keep up my weight and all that. And then, so it's been very helpful, like talking with those nutritionists and having that as a resource. But yeah, usually, yeah, it's been a long journey for till now, but yeah, I feel like I've gotten a pretty good handle on it, uh, going forward now.

That's awesome. Okay, I have a couple more questions for you if you have time.

Yeah, for sure. I'm open.

Okay. First of all, in a world where athletes are on the stage constantly, how do you— and they're being criticized and there you've got all these like old guys trying to think that they know more than you. You're just criticized a lot. How do you manage the pressure?

I would say, yeah, like, I don't know, one thing I learned from one of my coaches in college, he used to say, uh, the only opinions that you should care about are from the people that you care about. So basically, yeah, like, there's always going to be people saying the negative comments or anything like that, and just trying to like block those out. Like, because usually the people that are saying those things are negative people and like negative, they're just trying to bring you down and want to bring you down to their level because they're angry about something they couldn't do. Or that's usually what they are. They're mad that they can't, they're not in your position. It's usually, I feel like where most of the negativity comes from is because they're mad that they're not in the position that you have, that you have the opportunities that you have in front of you. So just like Realizing that and then just blocking it out. Like, because yeah, like I said, the only opinions that you should care about are the ones that the people that you care about, like, so like coaches or family or close friends, like people like that, because they all want to see you succeed. So those are like, that would be my biggest advice for kids like right now that are like trying to aspire for even going on. Because yeah, Kelsey at the highest stage, you see all the hateful comments even in the NFL, college, even college kids get it bad. And it's kind of just, it's kind of crazy and just scary to see like all that negativity that people can bring. But yeah, like just stay, have tunnel vision, focus on what you need to focus on, block out that noise. And also I would say with social media too, don't let social media like deter you from what you want to do. Because yeah, there's always going to be people if they're commenting on your stuff or whatever, like those people, they have nothing better to do but hate. So why even listen to them if they're They're taking time out of their day to spread negativity. That's not what intended for you. So I would say, yeah. And then even with social media, like, not everything has to be posted or anything like that. Like, let the work speak for itself. Like, it should be, what are you doing when no cameras are watching, when no one's watching? How are you working? What is your work ethic like? How are you as a person when no one's watching? So just things like that, I think, would go a long way.

I've noticed that you're not super active on social media. You post every so often, but definitely aren't super active. And I've noticed that.

Yeah. That's just something I've never been too crazy about. I mean, social media has always been like, I feel like it's cool sometimes just to kind of like give some updates and stuff like that. But like, if you're posting like every workout, every like little thing that you're doing, it's like, are you doing it for trying to get better? Are you doing it for, yeah, like for, like for the social media? So it's like I usually try to separate the two. Like my work is my work and what I post is like sometimes, yeah, I'll post just whatever, keep update, whatever, whatever like that. But yeah, for the main thing, like keep the main thing the main thing.

I love it. I think that that's so important. And I loved what you said about only care about what people, like the people you care about say. And it reminded me of this quote I've recently seen or this advice I've recently gotten of like, don't take advice from people who you wouldn't switch places with.

Exactly. That's a good one.

You know, like so many times people want to give you advice. I, I don't know, like a lot of people want to give you financial advice, but you're like, would I switch places with you financially? You know what I'm saying? Like, would I switch places with you and would I want your job? And so it's just interesting to me that, that really kind of blew my mind open to I should only really care about and really pay attention to the people who I would switch places with. Because those are the people who I look up to.

Yeah, exactly. No, I like that too. That's a good one.

Were there, so talking about the people that you care about, were there any specific individuals, mentors, coaches who have played a big role in your athletic career?

Definitely. I would say so many, like so many people have helped me to get where I'm at. And like, not even just like coaches. I'll say just my parents. I'll start off with just my parents, like my mom and dad. Like growing up, we didn't have a lot, but they sacrificed so much for me to be able to just play sports and have those, like, have those opportunities. So I mean, shout out to them for like getting me to where I am today because yeah, without their sacrifices, I wouldn't be able to be where I'm at. And just showing me like instilling that work ethic in me, like from a young age, like telling me to go after it, like with with everything I got. I remember my mom also, like, used to always tell me that before each game. Like, she used to just always say, like, go after— like, play as hard as you can each play. Like, don't take any second for granted. And I just kind of always— that kind of always stuck with me. And then even, like, going on past that, like, well, support from my siblings as well. Like, I had an older sister who had a great example for me playing volleyball. She went to college for it. And, like, just kind of seeing her do that was like, okay, I to like pursue my sport and try to do, be like her. And then even my older brother as well, like he played football, like smaller college, but still like I always looked up to those two of like just seeing their journeys and them mentoring me and being like that. And then just the support from my younger brother and sister as well. Like just having their love and support always like backing me whenever I was down and stuff. So having that. And then like for mentors, yeah, like all my coaches, I feel like, you know, from high school to college, Yeah, like Gino, Nick Sorell, and Kate Athey, like they at Highland, like they helped me a bunch, like making sure, like I know Gino, like we'd have side conversations when I was getting recruited. Like he knew like when it was like a lot because I used to have like coaches coming like every day almost to school and like he used to, yeah, like pull me aside sometimes like, hey, I know it's like a lot and like just make sure, like he's like, just like as long as you remain like the person you are, he's like, you're going to be fine. So whatever. Decision you make. So like, I always appreciate him helping me through that process as well. And then like, just to college, I think biggest Larry Johnson for sure, like developing me as a player but also as like a man, like as a person, like, because— and then like, he's just— we used to have talks, like we'd sit in room, pray and stuff like that, and have just good talks about just life, not even football sometimes. So it is very helpful just in those aspects. And then, yeah, Ryan Day, like, I know, uh, head coach, he was always like, give good, like, earpieces, like, good sayings and everything like that. Like, that would— I, like, think that lasts with me a lot, like, that I take to heart. I think one thing that I would always remember is, like, he— I mean, it's like a common one, but he was like, just always like, there's always going to be highs and lows. Uh, it could be up here at times, like, and you think you're on top of the world, and then you're kind down, like, you're crashing down like a roller coaster, but he's like, wait, but it's always going to come back up. It's the thing. So, like, even if you're at the lowest of lows, you always got to remember that it's always— it's going to get better. It's going to come back up. So that was always something that I've always kind of lived by because through adversity, like, when I am— like, things are not going my way, but, like, using that as motivation, and then it's gonna shoot back up. You're gonna be right there. But yeah, I would say, yeah, like, those are That's like, yeah, my top people that probably helped me. But there's, shout out to, there's probably, there's so many more people I didn't name, but that helped me along the way.

But it takes a village, right?

Yeah, it definitely does.

Okay, so last question. I think that that's so amazing that to have family like that, to have coaches like that, it makes, like hearing that, it makes me want to show up the best the best that I can for the athletes that I work with to help them go as far as I can. So I really appreciate that answer that you gave me. Um, the last question I have for you is, what would be the number one piece of advice that you would give to athletes who want to make it to the next level?

Um, that's a good question. Uh, I would say, yeah, like I said earlier, I think keep— always keep the main thing the main thing, because there's always going to be opportunities for you to maybe sway the course or get away from maybe what your goals have been, like partying or doing, hanging out with friends and all that stuff. But there's times where you're gonna have, be able to do that. But I think for right now, in the stage that you're at in your life, you should always just focus on like main, yeah, like the main thing, like you go into college and just give it like another thing would be to always, like, don't just be an athlete, be a well-rounded person, because how you do one thing is how you do everything. So I would say, yeah, like, don't just say, oh, I'm just an athlete. No, you can be so much more than just an athlete. Like, there's so many things, other things in life that are bigger than even like your sport. So I feel like even like as long as, yeah, you're pursuing, there's always going to be a good balance, like have a good balance in your life. That's one thing, but I'd also say like, like, we'll go back to that social media stuff. Like, don't let, yeah, like negative comments and any of the whatever, like all that, don't let that affect where you want to go or where you want to be. Like, there's always going to be those negative people and all that, but don't let it affect your day-to-day and all that because it's all, they're just they're just comments from people that are either jealous of your position or want to be, yeah, want to be where you're at. So to all those athletes, ask those hard questions too to your recruiters. Don't let them just tell you what you want to hear because you want to see if it's not going to be like that when you get there. I can attest to that sometimes.

Yeah. Well, Tommy, that you've given a wealth of knowledge and especially for the kids coming up. Like, not very many people have mentors, especially those who are in the NFL and at that, the, the highest level that you can achieve in sports. And so thanks for being on. Thanks for giving your advice and kind of a piece of you to the kids who are listening to this. I really appreciate it.

No, you know, of course, you know, I appreciate you having me on. No, it's been great talking to you again, and I've enjoyed this conversation. So I I hope the kids watching too take, take your coaching as well and take and use this and help them in their, in their further journeys. So