007 - Dustin Smith - Founder Elite QB

Thanks so much, Coach Smith, for coming on. I'm excited. He is doing big things in Utah, Idaho, and throughout the country with football players and other athletes. And, um, I wish that I would've had these resources when I was an athlete. And so I'm excited to talk to you. Welcome, Coach Smith.

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Kelsey Higginson.

Of course. So first thing I want to know is what is Coach Smith's slogan with the athletes that, that work with you? Like, If they say, yeah, Coach Smith always says this, what would that be?

It would be that there'd be, it would be do the work, but it would be sometimes preceded by the phrase, eyes up. Eyes up, do the work. Keep your eyes up. Be alert and aware. Be optimistic. Look at people and then do the work. Don't make excuses and hope that things are going to happen just because you see them or because you dream them or because you, You know, you look out in front of you and you see a pathway of success in front of you. You got to do the work. So, you know, they would say, I would bet unanimously they would say, do the work.

Do the work. So, you were mentioning that to me, your wristband that you have on with some of the company that you own. Can you kind of tell a little bit about how that was born and why?

Yeah, I've given out thousands, thousands, tens of thousands.

I want one, by the way.

Yeah. Okay. I'll get you one. Tens of thousands of wristbands to kids, junior high, high school, college, and professional athletes and Olympians. There's pro athletes that you'll watch on a Saturday or a Sunday or whatever that will be wearing a wristband like this that says "Eyes Up, Do the Work" on it. We'll have a Summer Olympian. She won't wear it when she's swimming, but Ryan White, who's on the Olympic swim team, is very much a part of our program. We have some in the winter Olympic area. But Eyes Up, Do the Work is— it originally started with trying to help athletes understand that they had a unique role. We in America, for good or bad, and it actually is good and bad, we give athletes too much attention. We have people who decide who to vote for based on what their favorite pro athlete says. Or I mean, we just worship these pro athletes. So, if you could run fast and jump high or throw hard or you're a great basketball player, you can dance or do something really well, we put posters up of you. We buy the shoes that you wear. Our kids just worship these athletes. And so do grown men and women. And we call that the sport life. So, I have a nonprofit organization called Especially For Athletes. And it's Its whole focus is how do we get the world to think, live with your eyes up, get off our phones more, get off of our devices, look at people, look people in the eyes again, and realize that life isn't as bad as we read, as we see on social media or on the news. We hear all the negative stuff, but there's a lot of really good things happening in the world. There are diseases and there are parts of the world that were in terrible famines 20, 30 years ago before the internet, before cell phones. And before the ability to share this information and get things to people faster. And there's a lot of great things happening in the world as well. But we teach kids that everything's so bad and the social media generation is being brought up in this comparing themselves to others constantly and it's creating what we have, a mental health crisis. And many of our athletes are also struggling with those mental health issues, but they're afraid to talk about it. Because it's still sometimes looked at as a weakness for some reason. There's this stigma that if you have a mental health issue and you're a— I mean, I know you played college basketball. How many college basketball players would feel comfortable going to their head coach when they're competing for a starting spot and say, "Hey, Coach, I think I'm seriously struggling with anxiety and depression." And because they're afraid their coach would say, "Well, you're not mentally tough. You're not focused. You're not— you're going to give me a— you're going to have a breakdown in the middle of the game. And so, it's going to be a mark against you. And so, athletes don't talk about it. And we find that 30% of Division I athletes are currently struggling with a serious mental health issue, but only 10% of them— oh, yeah, only 10% of them are talking about it. And in high school, it's even worse because what was just a good basketball player that made the high school team and the local town knew who they were, now with Instagram, and social and Twitter and Snapchat and all these things. You go have a game where you hit 6 or 7 3-pointers, let's say it gets posted on Instagram and—

Mm-hmm.

That gets shared on somebody else's highlight film. So the good that you do and the bad that you do because of social media gets thrown out there to the whole world. And kids who just like to play sports when they were 13, 14 are now thrust into, well, because I'm good, all these people are watching me and following me and interested in me. And if I don't play well one weekend, what are they going to think about me? Am I a bum? Am I going to get the same attention? We have parents who the only time they'll post about their son or daughter is when they do really well in a game. And they say, well, I'm just so proud of my son. And I oftentimes will say, well, then just go down the hallway and tell them. Why do you have to broadcast it to everybody? You know, I know you want your grandparents and maybe some close friends to see how, you know, little Jenny or Tommy are doing in their baseball season. But sometimes it's over the top. And the truth is, parents, we're doing it because we want people to tell us how great our kid is. And then what happens when your kid has an 0-for-20 game in a basketball game? Or goes 0 for 4 in a baseball game and strikes out 4 times. I never see the posts that say, "Hey, I'm so proud of Jenny today. She went 0 for 4 in her softball game and made 3 errors at shortstop." You never see those videos or those posts. So, we're only showing the best side of our kids. And then our kids grow up thinking, "Well, the only way I really get appreciation and recognition from adults is if I do well at my sport." And they become the sport. That's their identity. And then it turns off, that sport light turns off. They're no longer a basketball player. They're not a softball player. They're not— because it's not who they are. It's just something they did. It was a hobby that they happened to be really good at. They worked at it. They turned it into a skill set. They had some success with it. But in 20 years from now, very, very, very few, like very few, will ever make any money playing that sport they were so good at in high school. They're going to be doing regular jobs in the world. And so sports can be a good thing, but it can also really hurt a lot of our young people. And what we try to do is protect the athletes, but also how do we encourage them to use that spotlight, that attention they have to go and help the kids that might be a little less recognized, less appreciated, maybe that are being bullied or struggling or hurting. How can the athlete, the cheerleader, or the football player have their eyes up at school, look for that kid and go befriend them and put their arm around them and make sure that they know that at math class they are going to sit next to Kelsey Higginson, the basketball player, and she is going to ask them how their weekend was. And maybe that is the reason why they come to school the next day and do not end up going down that rabbit hole and get caught up in the depression, which then potentially leads to, you know, what we never want to see. And that is sometimes drug and alcohol abuse, and then sometimes suicide. So, I meet with athletes all over the country and try to encourage them to, "Hey, be the best athlete you can be. But the statistics say that less than 5% of you are ever going to do this after high school. So, but while you're in high school, make a reputation for yourself that your family name, those who really know you in 20 years from now can say was a positive one." because you had your eyes up and you helped other people rather than patting yourself on the back because you're too cool for school because you're the point guard. And then, in 20 years from now, have people talking poorly about you or maybe you wrecked people and you ruined people that at a time when they were really weak and needed somebody, you were actually the one putting your foot on their throat when you could have been the one lifting them and carrying them. So, that's what our nonprofit, e4a.org, Especially for Athletes, Eyes Up, Do the Work. And that all generated from a football company I had called the Quarterback Elite that I still run, that I started with Heisman Trophy winner Ty Detmer about 15 years ago. And we train and work with high-level quarterbacks, mostly in the Midwest area, Arizona, Utah, and Idaho. But we get kids from all over the country. We have 4 that are currently in the NFL and probably 2 dozen that are playing college football. So that's kind of my background. And then just to stay committed or involved in my community and be around the kids that live by me and my own kids, I'm the head high school football coach at the school I live in or live by.

So. Very cool. I, everything that you're doing is so cool and I love what you, when you touched on kind of the identity part and I can speak from experience like that does become your identity. Identity at a point of like, oh, I be— I'm my sport. And I remember my parents always telling me, especially my mom, basketball is not who you are, it is what you do. This is not who you are, it is what you do. And like, it would always be in the back of my head. But, um, I love what that you encourage in this nonprofit of yours. Hey, go, go be that person for someone else. Be, be a kind person. Like, evolve your identity to being someone who helps others, who leaves the world a better place, instead of like just being that star quarterback or that, that, that star pitcher, you know, it's, it's like, oh no, he is a good person. He is kind to me. He like, people will remember you so much more for that versus, yeah, like you said, a 20-point game.

People are going to forget. People are going to forget the games. In fact, Kelsey, if the day you graduate high school, if you start talking about your high school glories, Nobody cares. In fact, you become Uncle Rico. You become that guy that's stuck back in high school that can't get out of the game where they hit 3 home runs and you're talking about it in 5 years. People don't care. But they will remember how you treated people, including your own teammates who sometimes are the ones that are the most camouflaged. You think their lives are good because you only see them at practice. Well, of course, they're happy at practice. They're doing what they love. But some of them go home to some real trouble at home and some real-life problems. And so, you know, I do a whole thing on the difference between being a teammate and a team member. And there's a big difference there. And, you know, if you're truly a teammate, you're involved in some of your team members' lives outside of just the sport that you play. And you realize that they may not be as good as they put off at practice and they may be struggling with things. And so, You know, it's— there's no— this is not saying you can't be a competitive— I mean, I want competitive sons of guns out there playing for me, right? I mean, if you can't compete and you don't want to just go out there and just give it to your opponent, I can't coach you. I just can't relate with you. I just— so I get it. Like, be competitive. There's nothing wrong with that. And you should go out there with the intention of winning every single game. But you can do it without demeaning and embarrassing and humiliating and your opponent and embarrassing your family name and your school name by being an idiot when you're out there playing well at your sport. You can do it and still be classy and respective because the truth is, Kelsey Higginson, most of the people that we competed against would have been our best friends if they lived a couple miles closer to us, right? And they lived over the imaginary border that said, "You're the green team and we're the red team. And so, we're supposed to hate you." Well, if they lived in our neighborhood, They like the same things we like. Obviously, they're playing the sport we play. They would have been teammates of ours and friends of ours. And so, you know, respect the fact that they give you the opportunity to compete and to do what you love. And when you beat them, respect that. And if they beat you, you got to be tough enough to stand up and say, hey, thank you for the opportunity to fight. You kicked my butt, but at least I got to get in a fight with today. And I got to show the stuff I've been working on. I obviously need to get better. So that's where you need to do the work. You got to get back in the lab and get back to work.

Love that. Do you— I know with the highly elite players that you've been able to work with throughout the years, what has been the difference like between the good and the great players? Is it that mindset that you've been talking about or like what really sets them apart from everyone else?

Yeah, there's— the mindset, some of it is just some natural. I mean, let's— sometimes I think we overthink this, Kelsey. We— sometimes kids are just born genetically really, really athletic, and there's not a whole lot of— we don't need to dissect this thing too much. They're 6'5" and they're 200 pounds naturally, and they play football. They're probably going to have a good chance at they can run, right? They're probably going to have a chance to be pretty good. But when you're talking about the elite, elite, like the Division I or really the NFL or the NBA or the Major League Baseball, like that's the elite of the elite. They have a different mindset. They have a distaste for being average, for doing just well enough. They might have a game where they went in baseball, let's say they went 3 for 4. And instead of saying, "Wow, that was a really good game," they're focused on, "Well, why didn't I go 4 for 4?" And going back and fixing the reason that they didn't go 4 for 4. They manage their days. They schedule their priorities, meaning working out or mental meditation or watching film or something. It's not just something they kind of do and coach says so, or if they have free time. It's a priority. So, like Stephen R. Covey said, it's not about scheduling your day. It's about scheduling your priorities. And then, your day fills in after that. But you're— they— so, well, if I got a lot going on today and it's going to be hard to get that extra workout in that I need to get in, then I got to wake up earlier today because I have to make time. And so, they know what their priorities are. They have a just a hatred for not being their very best. They just can't live this idea of being just mediocre. And they have the ability to forget quickly. They have some amnesia, meaning you're going to have a bad day, you're going to have a bad at-bat, you're going to miss a shot, you're going to, you know, something's going to happen, you're going to throw an interception. The really good ones realize, "Okay, that happened as part of the game, but that's not who I am. I'm better than that." So, they move on to the next play quicker where the other athletes tend to kind of live backwards and, "Ah, I'm afraid I might do that again." So, they start getting tense and, "I don't want to embarrass." And they play not to make a mistake instead of playing to dominate, right? They have one ear on the sideline wondering what coach is saying about them or what's mom and dad saying about me right now or what are the fans thinking instead of just saying, next play. So one play and clear, one play and clear. You can't replay last play, so there's no reason dwelling on it. You can learn from it, but then you have to have amnesia a little bit and, and be able to forget and move on to the next moment, because the next play could be your very best one. So the real good players seem to have the ability to do that. And if you watch a Steph Curry or somebody, they'll go out and miss 6, 7, 8 jump shots in a row, but as soon as they get a a chance to shoot a 9th or a 10th one, they're not hesitating. It's going up because they know at any time I can get hot here and I can make 6 in a row because— and the reason, because they've, they've deposited, they've done the work, they've put enough in the bank that they have more to withdraw. And when they need to withdraw a little bit more from the bank, they can go there and they've got so much work they've put in that, hey, I need to withdraw a lot tonight because I'm struggling, I'm having a hard time. Then they can because they put in the work. And that's the key is you have— if not, you go broke really fast, and you have nothing to withdraw, and then you just become another player out there running around. Yeah.

Do you— you mentioned that the 30% of Division I athletes are struggling with mental health issues. These, these athletes that you've been able to work with, do you see that in them? Or how do you help them work through mental health issues?

It's hard to see. Sometimes you can see it. You have to look. And sometimes mental health, it might not be that they have a major mental health issue, but one of the first things you can see is if a kid makes a mistake, where do his eyes go? The natural human reaction for all of us is to look down. We all do that. If we said something embarrassing or we did something embarrassing, we look down because that is a defeated, it is a protective action, right? We get our bodies, we just want to kind of protect ourselves and get away from people. So, you rarely will see a person strike out and put their eyes up and their hands up and, right? Like that is what we do when we succeed. We get big and strong. We put our hands up. We jump and we are loud. So, but if a kid makes a mistake and their eyes go to the sideline or to the stands, I know immediately they're worried about what other people are thinking, specifically probably their coach or their parents. So, their eyes go up there instead of to their teammates and to the next play. If they're not playing to win, they're playing not to be embarrassed or not to lose or not to have dad get mad at him on the car ride home because he didn't play well because dad wants it more than he does. So, that may not necessarily be a major mental health issue, but it's the sign that there could be one developing. The problem with mental health is that it's pretty camouflaged. It can be oftentimes almost invisible because you can hide a really troubled soul and a troubled life behind a smile and maybe some good looks and some charisma. And people don't think that you should be struggling because you got it all. You're good looking. You're smart. You're athletic. And so, you know, sometimes you have to really ask them. You have to pull kids aside and say, hey, what do you do when you're not playing this sport? Are you happy? You know, is there something— what I always tell my coaches and athletes, and this goes for adults as well, parents. As well and coaches. We want 100%. How many times have you heard the phrase, all I want from you is 100%, right? Just give me 100%. We hear that all the time. Well, sometimes, Kelsey Higginson, you went to a basketball practice or a basketball game as a college athlete and you had other things going on in your life, is my guess. You had an issue with a boyfriend or you had an issue with your parents or you had a grade that you knew you just failed a test or you were struck, you had a test in the morning that you weren't ready for. Grandma was sick and might be passing soon or something, a friend issue, something that was weighing on you and you don't have 100% to give. Your tank is only 70% full. So, 100% for you is actually 70% of what you're capable of because that's all you have in the tank today. You didn't get enough sleep. Because of all these issues. You maybe weren't— you lost your appetite because of all these issues. So, you haven't been eating right that day. You just don't have 100% to give. But we think, well, I've seen you do 100. I know what 100% looks like from you. You must be lazy. You're dogging it. You don't work hard at practice. You don't care about this game. It's not important to you. That's not always the case. Sometimes even as adults, we don't have 100% to give our kids. We have other things going on in our life and having a son or a daughter come home and, "Hey, Dad, I love you. I appreciate all you do for me," or, "I'm going to go mow the lawn without you asking," or, "I'm going to do the dishes without you asking." They don't know what that does to the parents, right? Or when they go to their coach and say, "Hey, Coach, just wanted you to know, thank you. I love you. And thanks for all you've given to me. And I'm going to try my hardest this upcoming game." They don't know how that lifts the coach who might be struggling. So, but to answer really your question, Kelsey Higginson, you can't always see it. You have to ask. It has to be intentional as a coach, just as warmups are intentional. We make time for kids to stretch and get warmed up. We have to make time as coaches and parents to have conversations with our kids about mental health and how they're doing and how they're feeling and what's going through their minds. And address the fact that if they're struggling, it's okay to get help. It's just like if you turned your ankle, you'd go to the trainer. If you have mental health, go to the trainer. There's people there to help you. It's no different than the ankle injury. We just have to get rid of this stigma, which we are, we're doing better at it, that it's some sort of weakness that's any different than a twisted ankle would be. It's not. It's the same thing.

I think that that's so cool that you're speaking to these issues because I mean, it has come a long ways, I'm sure, in the past 5, 10 years. But I love the fact that you speak to, that was always hard for me of, okay, like my 100%, like I know what that is, you know? I know what I can give. And so people will say like, do your best. And this can be like applied to life, not just sports, right? Like sports sometimes are the best lessons for life, at least for me. It has been. And I remember thinking like, oh, like, I, I'm not doing my best then. Like, I must not, I must not be earning it because this is not my best. I've had better days than this. But then I remember seeing a quote similar to what you said, and it's like, on the days that you have 100%, give 100%. But on the days that you only have 40% to give and you give that whole 40%, you still gave 100%. Yeah. And so I think that that is so important and so almost freeing for athletes and for people in general to know, like, it's okay to have bad days. It's okay to not feel your strongest or best that day. And especially coming from a coach, I think it's so cool that you, as a head football coach— I, I— those kids are super lucky to have a coach that is that aware of it. And like you said, it's like, hey, um, just like you have a twisted ankle, it's not your fault. Like, let's just Let's address it and let's fix it.

Well, let me be clear though on that is that it's a lot easier to say than it is to apply. I say these things, but every day I realize I don't do it as well as I say it. I miss a lot of opportunities to do a lot of things that I, for a profession, talk about and read about and study about. But when you get out there in the heat in a moment and you're competing and you've got a lot of things happening. Sometimes, the weaker version of yourself, the wanting to win version of yourself, steps, gets in the way. And I have a lot of regrets as a coach. There's been more times than not where I haven't practiced what I've preached. And I regret that. I feel awful for that. But I do try. And I know a lot of coaches do try, but it's really hard for people to expect a coach to understand that their child doesn't respond well to this sort of coaching or that they're— this kid is really struggling with coming to practice because you get on them sometimes and they've got this issue they're dealing with at home. If the coach doesn't know, right? Like, we don't know all this stuff if you don't come and tell us. If Kelsey Higginson, you came to me and said, coach, I feel like I got 40% at all today. This is why. I'm going to give you— I know I'm going to give you all I have, but I just, I didn't sleep at all last night. I've got this major issue going on. And you tell the coach about it. And we have that. Now, how do you have— how do you build that relationship so that your players feel comfortable talking to you about that is the key. Because very few kids are going to come up and just volunteer that information to a coach who they feel only cares about winning. But if you've developed a relationship with your players where they feel comfortable coming and saying, "Hey, Coach, I broke up with my boyfriend last night. I didn't sleep. I haven't eaten all day. I just am struggling. And I'm sorry. I know I need to be ready for practice today. I just don't feel that I am." A good coach would say, "You know what? I remember being 17 or I remember being 18. And you know what? That's life." And maybe coach a little bit differently. But if we don't know those things and then you come out and then we get on you expecting 100% and then your mom or dad calls us or emails us and says how you are so hard on our child, you didn't know he was suffering with this, this, this, this, and this, and we didn't know it. Well, that's not fair to the coach, right? Because sometimes the coach is going to push a kid and get on them. And I tell the athletes, not every coach, but I think most good coaches It's a compliment if they're getting on you. If they're pushing you, Kelsey Higginson, when you were in college and your coach was getting on you, do you think that your college coach was doing that because he or she just wanted to yell? Or do you think that it was because they're not going to waste their breath on you if they don't think you can do it, right? They're doing it because they believe you can get it done and they want you to understand that. And they're trying to push some button on you to get you to take that extra step, get that extra, you know, that. And so it's when your coach ignores you and doesn't talk to you that you got a problem. If a coach is getting on you and pushing you, there's a difference between belittling a kid and trying to get more out of an athlete. And when your coach is trying to get more out of you, it's because they believe you have more in you. And that's a compliment. So, you have to be able to— this might answer an earlier question you asked me about the elite-level athletes— is the ability to understand the message and not get too caught up in the tone. The words that the coach is saying sometimes is coming out of a loud, angry adult. They're just frustrated, right? They might even be yelling and raising their voice. But focus more on the words and less on the delivery of it because what they're telling you is probably valuable information that they see more in you and they're giving you tips or coaching you. But if you get caught up in the way they're saying it to you, you might feel like they hate you because they, man, look how angry they look and they're screaming. And, you know, I've always told the kids I've coached, at least, I'd never raised my voice and got upset at an athlete who I knew just couldn't do what I was asking them. I would— those kids, I'd love to have them because I want them to play football. I think that— or basketball or baseball or whatever. I think every boy and girl should be a part of something positive, whether that's a club, a team, you know, the choir, band, something. And so if you choose to play football, we want you there. But I know you can't do certain things because you're not maybe super athletic. That's okay. You have a role on the team. But I'm not going to scream and yell at you if you can't run fast enough to catch a pass because That's just that you don't have that. You're way better at other things that these other boys on the team couldn't do, but football's not your thing, but you're part of our team. But if you're a starting football player who's put in a lot of time and effort, who we've invested time and effort in, who has, I know can do it and you're dogging it or you're running it the route wrong, let's say, a coach might get into you a little bit because they know you can do it right. That's a compliment. So the elite level kids, or even the good athletes, have the ability to say, Coach doesn't— this isn't personal. They're not— they don't not like me. They're just trying to get me to understand very clearly that I can do this better, and if I do, I can be really good. And so they have the ability to move on. And I had a situation just yesterday with my very favorite kid that I've ever coached. I'm coaching right now and I've coached thousands of kids. And he said something and did something at a little deal we were doing and I got really upset at him and I thought his attitude was bad and I was in front of the other boys. I was pretty hot on him. And he was looking me in the eyes and doing exactly what he should do. Just, "Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'll do better. Yes, sir." 30 seconds later, we got together and I said, "Hey, we're good, right?" "Yeah, I love you." "I love you too, coach." We fist bumped and we were on to the next play. And then we have, I saw him that night at my house and it was just joking and laughing and we moved on. It was nothing personal. At the moment you would have thought, holy cow, that coach, he cannot stand, he's going to kill that kid. But, you know, it's, is they have to know you love them and that whether they do well or not, you doesn't change at all your opinion of them and that car ride home. For parents. That is a sacred time. When you get back in the car and you're driving back to the house, the words you say in that 5, 10, 20, 30 minutes are going to be— they will remember that more than they will the game. They'll forget the game, but they'll remember when they got in the back of the car and you turned around and said, what were you thinking when you made that pass? How many times have we talked about that, right? Why did you— you know better than when you're going to make a layup like that to You know, whatever the phrase is that we're— or the critique. Instead of saying, hey, son, did you try your hardest? Instead of saying, hey, did you try your hardest? Did you have fun? All right. What do you want to talk about? You want to talk about the good, the bad? What do you want to talk about? Sometimes the athlete's going to say, I don't want to talk about anything. Okay. You know, you don't want— sometimes after games, you don't want to talk about it. You know what you did wrong. I don't— let's— can we talk? You don't need to address it right after the game. Let them cool down a little bit, but point out the good. Now, do you want to talk about the things that I saw that— what did your coach tell you? Well, he's— she said I should have done this and this and this. Okay, does that make sense? I also saw this and this that I think you could have done a little bit better. And but hey, I love watching you play, honey. It is so fun to watch you. You've worked so hard. And whether you do well or not, You're getting a chance to get out there and compete. How awesome is that? And I just love what, you know, watching you, and I'm proud of you. Let's work on those things that you can do better at, and then maybe next game you'll have a better game. But what do you want to do now? Should we go home and watch a movie? Like, what do you want to do? You want to go work on your shot, or maybe you need a break? Like, what do you want to do now? Like, be parents, right? The kids are dealing with stuff and they need a break, and And, you know, in our book we talk about all this stuff, but we need to give our kids a chance to be kids. And D1 athletes, pro athletes, they also have times of the day. They're not lifting and watching film all day, every day. I promise you, they're going through— they have breaks that they take where they won't even touch their sport for 4 or 5, 6 weeks. Maybe they won't even touch a ball. Okay. They just, they just got to get away from it. And get their mind back and get some balance in their life and be with family and friends and loved ones. And, and then, okay, it's my job. I got to get back at it. But, you know, we put way too much pressure on 13, 14, 15-year-old kids. And I think oftentimes we have to be honest with ourselves, parents and coaches. Are we really doing it because for our kids, really? Or are we doing this for our own social media feed? Let's just be honest. And is it really a good thing for our child, or are they just doing it because we make them do it and they really don't love it and it's not enjoyable for them? Because if it's not, it actually is going to create a wedge between your relationship. And when you don't have basketball anymore because they're done playing it, they might not want to play it anymore. I know athletes who play college football who they got done with it and they didn't want to touch a football or be around football for years.

Love it. You read my mind on my last question. I was going to say, what would be your number one advice for parents? And the car ride home is that, that hit the spot. So thank you so much, Coach. I, I've loved learning from you today, and the athletes that get to be coached by you are super lucky.