011 - Ross Apo - Elite Wide Receiver Coach

K, guys, this afternoon I have Ross Apo with me. I'm super excited to talk to him. I grew up watching him at BYU, and it's pretty fun to sit across the computer screen from him and talk to him. Welcome, Ross.

Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I didn't know you watched me while I was growing up. That's awesome.

I was— let's see, you played what, 2010 to like 2014? Yeah, I would. How old was I then? I was like an 11 or 12-year-old.

Oh, that's crazy.

And I ask— I'll have to show you some photos of me, but like, I was that girl. I was a BYU fanatic. Like, I was that girl that would ask for her birthday for BYU tickets to go. Oh, that's awesome. I have all of my childhood memories are spent in that stadium. It's, it's a pretty happy place for me. My dad still shows— there's one game, I think you guys are playing Utah, and I think you were I think that was in the time that you were playing, but I'd have to do my fact check to go back and look. But my dad's, one of my dad's proudest moments is we were sitting, I think it was second row on the 40-yard line. And all of a sudden, and this is right before Jimmer kind of exploded, but Jimmer Fredette was like kitty-corner to me with all of his, like Brandon Davies, all of his teammates and stuff. And my dad's like, Kelsey, Kelsey, go get a photo with them. And I was like, oh, like, okay. I was just like, 10, 11-year-old girl. And I think that's his proudest moment. He shares it with so many people. It's pretty funny.

Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, those are, those are some iconic guys at BYU for sure.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I was fangirling for sure. So that was pretty fun. That was awesome. Now it's fun. I've interviewed some of your former teammates too. I know Colby Pearson, you didn't play with him, but I actually talked to him yesterday, which was a lot of fun. Talked to Mitch Matthews and—

I played with Colby.

Oh, you did? Yeah, I thought he was later on.

When I was— I played with him for 2 seasons.

Okay, you did. So he caught you, he was like a freshman, sophomore, and you were a junior, senior?

Yep. Blackfoot, Idaho, right?

That's where I'm from. Yeah, we're from the same hometown.

Yeah, that's awesome.

That's really funny. And yeah, I've, I've been able to talk to some awesome guys from BYU, and I have some good connections there, so Like I said, I'm excited to have you on today.

Oh, thank you for having me.

Hey, so I just kind of want to jump right in. I did some research. You're from Texas, right? Right. Okay. We were just talking a little bit before and we kind of mentioned that most of the big football players come out of Texas, California, those bigger states, right? Like Texas is known for its football, right?

Right. Yep.

What was that like growing up in Texas and playing football?

It was, um, it's like, uh, it's kind of like churches here in Utah. Like that, that's all like that. Yeah. That it's religion. It's like Friday, right? Friday Night Lights, what you see on the, on the, on the TV show, the movie, how things close, like literally people are closing down their, their, their shops. Right. Um, and going to football games. And there's a high school there, Allen High School. And for them to be able to build their stadium, they had to lay off teachers and do all these things to save money to build it. And it was like, it looks like a college stadium. And so yeah, football there is serious. Everybody kind of has a trainer for everything. The US Olympic team, they also like train there. And so I was able to work, my track coach was the track coach for the US Olympic team. And so it's like, yeah, that's how much of an edge you kind of need in Texas to be able to keep up with everybody. If you're not training, if you're not working outside of what you do with your team, you don't stand a chance. There's just no way. Coaches are getting paid, you know, six figures. And—

High school coaches?

Yes. Yep. Yep. High school coaches. Yeah. Some of the highest paid are like $180,000. Yeah. And it's just, it's a whole different ballgame. And, you know, the parents, they're even crazier. And so, yeah, it's just funny. I've been at some games where there's been like just full out brawls. Yeah. And so Texas football is exactly what, you know, people imagine it to be. Yeah.

So what, like, kind of thinking back to your high school days, saw you played at Oak Ridge High School.

Yep.

What was it like? What was it like trying to make varsity and earn your position? And like, was it super competitive? Do you feel like it prepared you better for collegiate ball. Just kind of tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah. So the first high school I was at was a big 6A school, was Eulalie Trinity. They're the team that came down to Utah in like 2008, I think, and played Bingham. And the score was like 45 to 10. Like we had like fourth string in at halftime. Yeah. JV guys were playing. Yeah. So we put the spanking on them. And so that was the first school. And the coaches were, like I said, the coaches, they're paid a lot. So they do a really good job at developing players. Now, at the same time, it's like I was growing up just a knucklehead and ended up getting kicked out, I guess. And so my dad moved me to Oak Ridge and that was a private school. And so I went from 6A to 2A. And so— the deal for, so the deal they had for me to go there, because it was a private school, I had to play all sports. So basketball, football, track, swimming, if I could fit in baseball, right? So I had to try to, I had to try to do everything for the school. So at the 6A school, I played on varsity as a freshman. And so when I went to the 2A school, like automatically, like I was starting, but that didn't matter to me. Because I already knew I was going to go there and start. I already had that mentality. And my goal was to go there and kind of turn the program around and help them win and, and just show them something new. Because I think the previous years before I got there, they were like 0-10, 1-9. Yeah. And so I was just like, Dad, I don't know what you just moved me into, but this has to change. Yeah. And so we'd be in the huddle and they're talking about their science homework and projects and, and stuff like that. And so Yeah, I think the biggest challenge for me was getting everybody on board and kind of changing that culture to what I was used to at the 6A school where it was the complete opposite. Guys were going to school to play football, not for school. And then you go to the private school and, you know, there's like a 100% graduation, you know, what you call it? 100% graduation rate, right? And everybody's just going to school on full-ride academic scholarships. And so, you know, it was a good chance for me to show them, you know, like, it just doesn't have to be this. Like, you guys can do the athletic side as well, you know, as the academic side. And so that was the challenge for me as far as playing as a freshman, that that wasn't an issue. That was something that I was expecting to do going to Oak Ridge.

Interesting.

Okay.

Yeah. So fast forward to your junior and senior year, um, when you started kind of getting, I'm sure maybe you started getting looks earlier than that, but when the recruitment process started to kind of come your way and coaches were talking to you and stuff, what was that process like for you?

It's a lot different than the process is now for these guys.

Uh, I'm sure it was.

Yeah. I mean, Facebook was like the thing that, you know, the thing, MySpace. And so, you know, coaches had to come and see you in person or they had to mail you letters. And so I started getting recruited in 9th grade. BYU is my first offer in 9th grade. And so, you know, they— I came out to a camp. My dad was like, hey, let's go to the BYU camp. And I'm like, hey, I don't even know what BYU is. Like, where is this? And he's like, it's in Utah. And I'm like, I don't even know what Utah— like, I'm a Texas boy. I never left Texas, like never. And so we came, you know, we came here. I did, I was supposed to do like a 3-day camp and I ended up just doing one day. I ran a few routes and Bronco pulled me to the side. He said, hey, we'd like to offer you, just like right on the spot. So they offered me, I took my pads off and then that was it. And I just said, and I was, I was done. And so that was my first offer. And then from there as a freshman. Yeah. Yeah. And so, again, like, I worked really hard to make that happen. Growing up, I was just tall, skinny, slow. And I had a lot of friends that played in front of me. And so I asked my dad, like, hey, set me up with some people. I want to get better. And so, yeah. So fast forward to my freshman year. That's when I started getting recruited. After the BYU offer, like, coaches started coming to my practices. And then by junior year, I had offers, man, to pretty much like all the Big 12 schools. You know, I took a visit to LSU. That was like the first or the second time I left the state of Texas. And so, yeah, junior, senior year, everything started to blow up. Coaches were coming by. Getting stacks of mail. My offers were letters, so I didn't know I got offered until I opened up all the mail and it was like, here's your full ride, you know, offer letter. And yeah. And so that's pretty much how, you know, recruiting was for me junior and senior year of high school. Junior year, I committed to the University of Texas. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I was committed to the University of Texas when Mack Brown was the head coach. Colt McCoy was the quarterback there, um, and, and they were balling. They're really good. Um, and there was 3, 3 of my other friends that were also high school All-Americans that were committed. So there were 4 All-Americans, um, wide receivers committed to Texas. And, um, Jake Heaps, um, at the time, right, he was the number 1 quarterback in, in the nation for the class of 2010. Which is our class, and he was coming to BYU. And we met at a camp. We met at a Stanford camp. And what I would usually do when I go to camps is find— and this is a good tip for these high school recruits, and I tell the guys that I train this. So when I was going to camps, I would find the best QBs. I would watch them warm up. I'd watch them go through drills while I'm doing my stuff. And I would see like who was putting the ball right on the coach or, you know, who, you know, who's spinning the ball versus who was not really throwing the ball. And so every time Jake would get up, I would jump in line and we kind of built a relationship at that Stanford camp and we exchanged numbers and he kept calling me. He's like, hey, I know you committed to Texas, but think about BYU and, you know, think about it. Just think about it. And then at that time, Kyle Van Noy, he committed to BYU and Kyle started calling me and they both FaceTimed me one night and they're like, so you're going to decommit? And I'm just like, oh man, I don't know. Because that's a hard conversation to have with, with a coach like Mack Brown, right? Oh yeah.

I can't even imagine.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I called him and he was golfing. Yeah. And I'm like this. Yeah, he would be golfing and I got to give him this bad news. And so I just said, hey, I'm sorry that I, you know, that I have to do this and I feel really bad, but I think I want to decommit and open up my recruiting process. And it was silence for like 5 minutes. And, you know, I'm like, hello? And he's like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, I want to take a look at some other things. And he's like, well, all right then, Ross, we'll talk later. And so that was it. And then I committed to BYU.

Wow. So you, because that was one of the questions I actually had for you, is what made you choose BYU? And it sounds like you almost, I'm sure that the coaches were great and everything like that, the program was great, but you really committed for more for the people going there, less for the school itself.

Right, right. Um, because I, I knew BYU because at the time Austin Colley was here, um, you know, and Max Hall and, and those guys. And I knew BYU was a spread school. I didn't really know a whole lot about BYU. I just knew they threw the ball. And I knew that's what I wanted to do was be in an offense where the ball is going to be thrown. And so it made the most sense to go in with a guy, you know, the number one quarterback, right? And then to go in with a guy like Kyle Van Noy, that's, you know, a beast on defense. And so, yeah, it was more so like the players recruited me. I came here for the players and kind of for the offensive, you know, from what I knew about BYU. Yeah.

And you've never left. You're still in Utah.

Yep.

Yep. So, um, yeah.

Yeah. So, um, you know, my wife, she was all, she was all-American soccer player at BYU and, um, then I met her there and yeah, she, she, she loves it here. I love it here. Um, and so yeah, we just, you know, we stayed here and, um, man, I, I call Utah my home now.

That's so cool. Yeah, I love— I mean, I live in Utah as well. I didn't grow up here, but I love it too. There's a lot to love. There's a lot to do. It's really pretty.

Yeah.

Kind of going back to your college experience when you first got to BYU, because we kind of talked high school a little bit, talked recruitment. When you got to BYU, Division I football, high-level stuff, was there anything unexpected or anything that surprised you?

Yeah, the elevation. I didn't know, like, the elevation. I didn't know it was a thing. And so I came in and I was in good shape. I ran a lot and I was always exercising in Texas. So I got here and we were running gassers my first day. And I just remember, like, I don't feel good. Like, why am I so tired? And I'm like on the ground seeing stars and everything. And people are squirting me in the face, Apo, get up! And, you know, I'm like, I don't know what's wrong with me. And they're like, it's the elevation. And I'm like, what does that have to do with anything? And so, yeah, the elevation was the very first thing. The second thing was the snow. I'm like, I had never seen snow in my life. Like, it never snows in Texas. It's always hot. And so you have the snow. Yeah, it snowed one time and we had a team meeting and I didn't go to the team meeting because it's snowing. So anytime in Texas, if there's like any hail, like we just— everything's canceled. School's canceled, closing down roads. So it's snowing and Bronco calls me. He's like, hey, your seat's empty and we're in team meeting. I'm like, yeah, it's snowing outside. And he just laughed. He's like, you still have to do stuff. So I'm like, I don't even know how to drive in the snow. So yeah. So then, yeah, that was one thing. As far as, you know, athletic goes, at the athletic side goes, or the sports side goes, I think the pace, the pace of the game, right? A little bit quicker, a little bit faster. The playbook's a little bit more broad. You have to kind of know more adjustments and you can't just get away with being athletic. You have to know what's going on. You have to actually study, study the game. And, you know, at that, at the college level and even at the NFL level, it's like everybody's big, everybody's fast, everybody's strong. What separates you is, is your IQ. What separates you is the small things you do in between your diet. Your study habits, your sleeping habits, you know, just what you do when you're not around the facility or around the coaches. And so that was, I wouldn't say that was a huge adjustment for me, but I had to learn, you know, like I got to eat right. I can't just eat whatever I want and get away with it. I had to get my rest and, you know, 6 AM gets here early. And so those were like the biggest adjustments was having to do things without, you know, without my dad's help and having to do it on my own and making my own dinner at night and packing it for the morning and being prepared that way. Because now it's like you go from being the man at your school to now being the youngest. And now you're here with grown men that, you know, potentially could be going into the draft next year.. And, you know, it's, it's, it is a little bit scary at first. But I think I went in as, as prepared as I could be. You know, so much prepared that, you know, I was a freshman All-American, but still it took a whole lot to get there. So, you know, if I had advice for younger guys that have, you know, aspirations of going to the next level, start working on those habits now. Start, you know, put the phone down, get some rest, um, you know, eat, eat better, find somebody, a dietitian that can help you, um, you know, put the right foods in your body, um, you know, stuff like that. Yeah.

Yeah. I love, I love everything you just said. And just for people, I don't think you, I don't know if you know this, Ross, because we, we just recently met, but I am like a sports nutritionist and that's my business is I, I work with athletes especially elite high school athletes, and then the Division II, Division III when they don't have their own nutritionist. So just so people know, I did not pay him to say that. Like, he's saying that based off of experience.

That's awesome, man. Well, I have a lot of guys that need to get on a diet because, you know, today I talked to a few guys that were like, man, I'm just so tired. And I'm like, what'd you eat? Oh, I didn't eat. And I'm like, why? And they're like, we get made fun of for eating breakfast. And this is where they're at in high school. Like, they're getting made fun of for eating. And I just said, that makes no sense to me. Like, what is— so, you know, I feel like a lot of these younger, you know, these younger players, they're just not eating. They're skipping meals. And, you know, life, you know, moves fast. I know they have friends and social media and they're just not eating. And so like, I'm forcing guys like, hey, you need to eat. Like, your body needs to feel or else you just come out here and drag and we're just wasting each other's time. And so I'm going to be sending people over to you. I'm dead serious.

I'm dead serious. I am very passionate about that. And I think it, obviously we've seen kind of a trend and we'll get back, we'll take a little tangent right now, but we've seen kind of a, people have jumped on to the training game. They've jumped onto the strength, like in conditioning, like athletes can do that because they see immediate results and they can actually like experience the results then and there, you know? But the nutrition, the sleep and the recovery, everything that you were just touching on of what you kind of had to go through your freshman year and learn. That isn't as sexy, that isn't as fun, that isn't as like, yeah, this is a grind. That's just kind of the consistent little things that you have to do to be great, to separate yourself. Like we talk about separators. Those are recovery and nutrition. Those are two insane separators that like you take an elite athlete and you take a good athlete, like that elite athlete, even if they have the same athleticism, if they're doing those separators, they're gonna be way better. And so I think like, as we can, that's kind of my vision, my goal, my passion is helping educate these athletes. 'Cause once they see what it will do for them, they'll do it. But it's just kind of one of those almost standard answers of, yeah, you gotta eat, you gotta sleep. And they've heard that their whole lives. And I don't think that they actually grasp like the magnitude of a difference it would make for them.

So, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly right.

Yeah. I'll get off my soapbox there. We can talk about that later, but, oh yeah. No, no. Let's go back to you for sure. For sure. Yeah. It was just, it, there's a lot to it and I'm, and especially with the kids, the high caliber athletes that you work with, like you just said, like kids are getting offers every day to big schools, which is so cool. It's like if they could get an edge on the recovery, the nutrition right now, imagine how much farther they'll be once they get there. 'Cause like, as you've been talking, I mean, getting there is one thing, but playing there is a completely different thing.

So, right, right. Yeah. Um, and actually, like, the top guys that I train, um, those guys are going to, like, places to get recovery. You know, their, their parents went out and invested in NormaTec. Um, you know, they're, they're doing all the right things. And I mean, their bodies are built. I'm like, there's no way you're 16. There's just no way. Like, yeah. So the, the top guys that I have are— those are the guys that are doing the recovery, that are eating, that are resting. Um, and, and it's— and I love it because I can use them as live examples when we're training because I just say, hey, look over here, this guy has 20+ offers, look at his body, and now look at yours, right? And I have to be straight— and I hate to sound, you know, make it sound like that, but I have to be straightforward with these guys because if not, they're just gonna, you know, blow it off like, yeah, Ross is just, you know, so I'm like, now look at yours. You know, this is what you guys can look like, you know, this or, you know, this, this could be, you know, potential of where your body could get to, you know, in a sense. And, um, you know, that, that's, that's what I love about the, the top guys that I train is they take all of that stuff serious. And, um, I, I think more and more of the guys are thinking about it. They're just not doing it. And so, um, Yeah, I'd love for them to, you know, to get with you. So I'm definitely gonna send you over some people.

Oh, that'll be awesome. Would love to help 'em, especially 'cause they're local. That'd be even better. Yeah. Okay, well let's resume you like that. I love that you brought those things up and I love when people do because those are real things that, as I said, athletes miss. They miss that mark on. It's not just football, it's all the behind the scene things that help you succeed. In training, on the field, all of those things. So I know, um, like I said, I grew up watching you, um, feel like we suffered through some of the heartbreaks that— I mean, you suffered a lot of injuries, Taysom suffered a lot of injuries, like there's all these players getting hurt, and you went through several, like you went through a lot after coming off that All-American year. How were you able to handle the injuries that came your way? How are you able to face that adversity and kind of stay optimistic with it?

Um, I kind of just the way like I was raised is just like, you know, my, my parents, they prepared me like for, I wouldn't say like worst case scenario, but they would, you know, tell it not, not everything's going to be perfect.

Right.

And so what are you going to do, right? When you're driving and you get a flat tire, are you just going to pull over and sit there or are you going to change the tire and keep driving? And so, you know, the injuries, they did suck. I had 3 labrum surgeries and then, yeah, the bone came out of my finger on one. So you can see it here.

Oh, wow.

It's like sideways. Yeah. So it's like all of them are broken. They're all like pretty broken. But yeah, 3 surgeries on this shoulder. And it was like after every year. And so, you know, I just understood, like, I have no other choice. Like, I have to get back. And, you know, I signed a letter saying that I would play here and that I would, you know, graduate and give it my all. And that's the way it goes. And so I did find, I did have to find a sports psychologist, Dr. Manning. And he, you know, Dr. Manning, he's great. He's awesome. You know, he would help me with my sports psych and kind of get me back on it while I was rehabbing. And so, again, that's something that you have to do on your own time. It's not anything where coaches would, you know, sign me up for and I go, right? I have to call him, hey, Dr. Manning, can we set up a meeting? You know, I have an open hour here. Let's just talk. You know, I'm not feeling confident right now. And so I'd go see him, you know, we'd talk through some things. I'd fill out my spiral, you know, with notes and, you know, positive affirmations and things to say before, you know, the play starts. And so for me, I just understood that regardless of how good things were going or how bad things were going, that, you know, I just had to keep moving forward. I couldn't stop. And so that's the way that I got through the injuries and just kind of continued to to play. And, uh, you know, I made it, made it through my senior season, graduated, um, and even had, you know, a shot at the NFL.

Yeah. What, um, as you went to Dr. Manning— I, I mean, I'm a big fan of him. I, I think that all of the listeners and people have heard that many times as I've talked to you BYU guys. But I, I've read some of his books. His stuff is amazing. What were some of the best pieces of advice or the things that you guys talked about that helped you continue on? Because it would've been very easy for you to just kind of throw in the towel and say, I'm done after the second shoulder surgery or something.

Yeah. 'Cause I had that thought of, man, I want to just transfer back home where I can be with my family and, you know, be close to home where, you know, I'm here and I'm just like by myself, right? I have my teammates, my boys, but That's it. So it's like when I have surgery and I got to go home at night, it's just I'm by myself in the recliner and it sucks. And so I've had that thought of, man, maybe I should just go back. And so Dr. Manning, he— the best advice he gave me, and this is advice that I give to all the guys that I, that I work with, is live in the moment, right? Be, be where your feet are. Don't, you know, because a lot of, a lot of the doubt comes from what we, you know, what we think is going to happen. You know, what we're nervous about, the unknown. And so, you know, for example, I would, you know, I'd come back from surgery and I'd be thinking, man, what if I get hit on this play? Dr. Manning's like, well, what if you don't get hit? So yeah, so he's like, just live in the moment and take it, you know, moment by moment. Take your play, you know, take it play by play. And don't even think ahead of time. You just, you just do what you do. Do it, um, do what they brought you here to do. And, you know, that was to make plays. And so, you know, before, you know, before I go out to practice, I'd tape my wrist and I just put like, live in the moment, so I could always remember that. And, um, it's even true today as, as being a parent. Um, you know, sometimes you just like worry about like, oh, what if, you know, my kid gets sick or You know, the kid has a— my daughter had a dentist appointment and my wife and I were like, oh man, we're— and I'm just like, let's just enjoy the moment. The dentist appointment isn't till 2 months. Why are we going to sit and stress for 2 months? And so that was like the best piece of advice he could give me. And it was just so awesome because it helped me so much.

I love that. And like you said, it does apply to life so well. And I'm in my first year of parenthood right now. I have an 11-month-old little boy and It is so true. We can tend to worry our lives away or worry the game away or whatever it may be that we're doing. And then we'll look back and be like, why did I worry through the best days of my life?

Right, right, right.

You could miss it if you just worry it away. So I think that that's incredible advice. There's, um, I don't want to open any wounds, but I do want to ask you about some things as to like how your career ended versus the gap between your career and when you started your business in 2017. And there's there's a cool quote that you actually posted. So I'm going to break it up here and I kind of want to dissect it, break it apart and ask you some things on this, because I loved what you had to say. So I'll read it so the listeners can hear, and then I'll stop at different sections and ask you these questions. But you said that, starting the quote, I lived in shame for years after football ended about my college career, not living up to my expectations, letting myself down, letting my family down, letting my fans down. The what if, the what ifs, the why me's, um, did I make the right decision? It haunted me every day. I even tried to distance myself from the game of football altogether by working in mortgage for 5 years, but that did not work. Okay, I'm gonna stop there. I want you to take me back to that moment of when your career did end. You said you had a shot at the NFL, and it sounds like you chose a different path. Like What was going through your mind at that point?

Um, yeah, so the, so the last team that I was with was the Seahawks, and it's just like I just wasn't confident in my shoulder. And at that high of a level, you can't, you just can't think like that. Um, and, you know, I would let it affect me in practice, and, and to the point where it was just like, you know, I would be in the locker room ready to throw up because I just was so like, what if I hurt my shoulder? And I didn't want to have to go through that again. And so, you know, I finally was just like, you know, I'm just going to step away. And, and, you know, I hate football. I don't want to even deal with it anymore. And, you know, it, um, and you'll probably get to this part. Um, uh, actually, no, no, no. I'll let you get to that part. Yeah. So, um, Yeah, it was just, you know, the injuries, it just sucks so bad because, you know, when I wasn't injured, I was just having fun doing what I knew what to do. But it's like coming back, you know, early from surgeries and knowing that I'm not ready to play. It didn't really make the game enjoyable anymore. I didn't— going out to practice, I was like dreading it because I'm just like, I'm not even 100%. I'm like 75%. My shoulder still hurts. And, you know, then I'd go out and drop a pass in Lavelle Edwards Stadium. And then you got all these people watching on TV and, you know, oh man, Ross sucks and this and that. And, you know, it went from being really good to like the lowest of the lows. And, you know, it's not a good feeling. Right, for anybody. And so, you know, when I was done playing, I just felt like, man, I left a lot. I left a lot out there. You know, do I wish I could go back and redo it healthy? Of course. But it's like, it is what it is. And so when I was done playing, I just was like, I had this sour taste in my mouth. With how things were. And, you know, people were just saying like, oh man, you know, he's a bust. He, you know, he came in highly recruited and didn't do what he was supposed to. And I agree, right? I didn't. You know, I did some things really well, but overall, I felt like I could have done a lot better job at BYU. You know, if I would have stayed healthy and, you know, Taking maybe, maybe taking better care of my body to say, yeah, yeah.

Like, that's, that's so tough because some, a lot of football is such a physical game. I mean, you're getting hit, you're getting tackled, like it's such a physical game, especially off of those labrums too. Like, those are so easy to be retorn if not rehabbed right, or if you were coming back earlier or something like that. And so it's like that balance of And like not beating yourself up and then also just saying like, I did what I could and like, you can't control the uncontrollables too. So I bet that that was kind of a battle that you were facing in your mind too.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, yeah, I, I did what I could. Um, you know, and there, there were some things about, you know, the surgery that had came out. The, the surgery that was performed was kind of botched, like wasn't done correctly. I won't go into that cuz I don't wanna have to deal with BYU and all that stuff. But yeah, it was like, I remember coming back and it's a 6-month surgery, 6-month recovery. And I was back in 4 months. And I'm like, I can barely like lift over my head. And I'm in practice, you know, going full go. And, you know, people don't know that. People don't care. Fans don't care. They don't. They just don't, right? When the game is on, they they, they need you to perform. And, and I understood that, but it's like, I couldn't. Um, I just couldn't. My body physically couldn't. And so there was a lot of drop passes because I couldn't lift my hands over my head. Like, I could lift this one, but then this arm would stay here and that's it. And so, um, you know, there's times where, you know, I'd catch a ball and I'd have to bring it in because I couldn't stick my hands out to grab the ball. And, you know, people were just like, man, he's terrible. And you know, it's just, it's, it, you know, week after week, you gotta find a way to, to kind of get your confidence back up, especially when you're dealing with like injuries like that. So yeah, Dr. Manning was probably tired of seeing me because I was just always in there like, hey, it's rough today. I need some help. You know, what, what can, what can I do? And, you know, we'd go through, take some notes, talk me through some stuff. But, yeah, when, when when you have high expectations, not only for yourself. And I think that's the worst part is I had high expectations for myself. But also, you know, the pressure of the fans, the coaches, my family. It's just, it's just hard to, it's hard to, you know, accept failure, I guess, or, you know, accept that you didn't do what everybody thought you were going to do.

Yeah, that would be really— especially because it was— I mean, you're from Texas, you're from that, that the land of football, and I'm sure that that was really hard to kind of have some things pan out differently to what you had dreamed of and expected. Um, but I'm going to continue on because it gets better, right? Um, you said the turning point for me was when my dad reminded me of how much the game gave to me, and I appreciated that. So I'm going to stop there again. What are, what are the biggest lessons that the game of football gave to you?

First, it paid for school. If I didn't get a scholarship, I mean, I wouldn't have went to college. We just didn't have money growing up. And so, like, for, for me to go train with these trainers, it costs money, but we didn't have money. So I would stay, you know, till 9 PM when they close., and clean up the gym and then, you know, go home. Um, you know, I'd help my track coach pick up cones, move things around. And that was like my form of payment. And so my dad told me pretty much, if you don't get a scholarship, you're not going to college. Like you go take out your own loan. Um, you go do it yourself or you just go get a job. And so, you know, first off it paid for school, which I'm super grateful for. Um, It, you know, football introduced me to a lot of people that I wouldn't have met if, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't excel at it. You know, I met my wife at BYU. So, you know, if it wasn't for football, you know, getting me to BYU, I would never would have, you know, met my wife and had my daughters. You know, the game also taught me that, things aren't always going to be perfect, right? You know, like I said, you're going to get a flat tire. You might get 4 flats, but you got to, you got to be able to change those tires and get back on the road and go. And I think that was the most important lesson that football taught me. And I don't take that as, I don't take that as anything harsh. I think that that was the best thing that football gave me was kind of that, that mental toughness of continuing to go regardless of the circumstances, whether it's really good, really bad, just continuing to go and, and trying to get better and trying to be a better person.

Yeah, I love that. And, and as you're a dad now and a business owner training your own athletes, I'm sure that that translates over really well into what you're doing right now.

Yeah. Um, I, I tell people all the time, like, I don't, I'm not just a trainer. I, and you could probably cut this part out, but I've had parents call me, their kids were like on, you know, on the edge of like, you know, yeah. And so, you know, can you talk to them? A couple of parents have, you know, found their, found their kids like, yeah, like overdosed. Yeah. And they were like, Ross, if it wasn't for you taking them in and talking, like, we don't know if he'd still be here. And, you know, some parents have sent me long texts of, you know, my kid hasn't smiled in 3 months. So whatever you guys did today, it made a big difference. And I even have parents that will pay me just to talk to their sons. And so, you know, it's like, Those, sometimes those are like more, more important to me than the training is like helping these guys through tough situations because I've been there. And the parents know like the stuff that I had to go through. They don't know the extent, but they know that I've been through some stuff. And so, you know, when it's hard for parents to talk to their own kids. So it's like, hey Ross, if you don't mind, you know, our kid's in a tough spot. We just like to pay you for your time to talk. And so, uh, I like to say like I'm a part-time therapist. And so, yeah, yeah. And so, um, I actually have a lot of those where I, I spend time just talking to guys and, and we don't even train. We'll just show up with tennis shoes and we'll just talk through some things. And, um, it's awesome. It's awesome.

Well, it's got to be— I mean, thinking and having talked about all of this with you and how much you've gone through, it's, it's so cool that, I mean, to think back now and think like you probably wouldn't be able to help these kids as much as you are now if you wouldn't have gone through those things that you went through. And so, I mean, it kind of turns the worst, the messes, in almost miracles in a way, right? Like where you, you're able to give back and really help someone else. And I mean, the fact you're gonna be remembered so much more by those kids for the— what you— and those parents, for what you did to help them through that versus a play that you made, right? Right. Stadium, right? Yeah. I think that's super cool. Um, I'll keep going with this. You— so you said, um, like how much the game gave to me and to appreciate that, and then you said to remember the game does not love you back. So that— I've never really heard it said that way, but I 1,000% subscribe to that because it's like Oh, that's totally true. Like, no matter how much you give to the game or how much you love it, it might not have mercy on you sometimes. Right. And so, like, how did you— what do you mean by that?

I mean, the game doesn't owe you anything, right?

Yeah.

You can pay for a lot of things in life, but when it comes to sports, it's like the work, you know, has to be put in. You're not entitled to anything. In sports. And so it's like, you know, if you have bad plays, you know, sports isn't going to pat you on the back and say, hey, you got it next time. It's just like, it doesn't love you back. And it's, man, I guess in, you know, in my situation, it was, you know, with the injuries and stuff, like I said, it gave me a lot. But then it was like with injuries, it's like, here, let's see what you do now. Right? So as much as I love the sport, I wouldn't say football loved me. You know, the football gods didn't love me, whatever it was. Right? I love the game, but it doesn't love you back. Right? So I tell guys, use this sport to get you to places. But remember, there's going to be points where this sport is going to use you or, you know, something's going to happen in the sport where it's not going to go your way. So, you know, use, use this sport as much as it's going to use you. And I guess a good way to put it now is like guys can get NIL, right? And so it's like, you know, use, use this sport, go make some money, you know, in those type of terms. So, yeah, the sports don't love you back. They definitely don't.

That's cool. I like, I like the way you put that, though, because sometimes we think it should, and then that's what gets us really frustrated about it. So I like that perspective on that. So you kept— you continued and you said, from then on, I've learned how to appreciate the ugly and give back to the game, uh, give back what the game gave to me through coaching, mentoring, and training. We've already touched on this quite a bit today, but because you said you took a 5-year basically lapse where you were, you were away from the game. You didn't want anything to do with it. What brought you back? Like what, what, what clicked to make in your mind to make it seem like, oh, I want to do this coaching, mentoring, training business?

I— so like I was working in an office and, you know, like the money's fine. But it's just like, what am I doing? Like, like nobody, like I'm not leaving a, I'm not leaving a footprint on this earth doing what I'm doing here. I'm clocking in, I'm clocking out and that's it. And it's just like, there's so much more to life that you, you, you can do so much more than just working in office from 9 to 5. Um, and so for me, I, because I had gone through so much, um, again, I've had really highs, right? And really lows. And I had all of this information in my head and I wasn't using it. I wasn't sharing it with anybody. Um, and so, you know, it was just like, to me, that was kind of selfish. Um, to me, I'm just like, how could I be, you know, one of the most highly recruited guys at BYU, you know, a freshman All-American, even have a chance, you know, going through all the stuff that I went through and even having a shot at the NFL. How can I go through all of that stuff and then not share my experiences with people, with other athletes, especially they're all around me? To me, that, it just didn't make sense. And one day I'm just like, yeah, that's super selfish of me to do. And so I went to a practice at Orem High School. So I got off at 5, you know, I went over to a practice during the season. I just sat in the stands and watched. And man, it was a good feeling, one that I hadn't felt in 5 years. And so, yeah, I seen it wasn't varsity. It was just some younger guys that were playing. And there was a wide receiver. He was like in a 3-point stance. And I was just like, I don't think that's right from what I know. And so I walked up. I could have forgotten.

In the last 5 years.

But yeah, so, so I walked down to the field and, and I helped him out, um, and, you know, he really appreciated it. And so I went back the next day to practice and the same guy was there, and, you know, I seen him and, you know, talking to him. And his parents, you know, they came out, um, they were watching practice, and he introduced me to his parents, and they're like, hey, would you like to work with our kid? And I was like, hey, yeah, sure, why not? And so, um, that's, that's kind of how it started. And then Um, you know, at the same time that I was going there, the head coach of the team, he seen that I was training guys. He's like, well, you're Austin. It's like, yeah. He's like, what are you doing now? And I'm just like, I was just working mortgage. And, you know, I'm just over here helping this guy, um, one of your younger guys. And he's like, well, you know, I have a few guys here that, that could use your help. One of them being Puka Nakua, um, you know, in 9th grade. And I was like, okay, um, yeah, I don't mind. I'll, uh, I'll stop by practice and help. Um, and so yeah, it, we, we went from there. Um, and so that's when I started training Puka and a few other guys.

That is so cool. And then just went up and up and up, obviously.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're, you're doing it full-time now, right?

Full-time. Yep.

That's so cool. I love it. Um, I've, I've loved everything you've talked about today. I really appreciate you sharing some of those more difficult moments that you walked through. I think that it's really going to help and probably resonate with a lot of people and players. Um, to end the quote of— I, I think you had— I'd seen a video of this, and I think you had posted this quote with the rest of kind of what you had been saying, but you said, sports do not define you as a person. Athletic failure doesn't make you a bad person, and athletic success doesn't make you a good person. Always remember that you are more than just an athlete. So I wanted to talk to you about that to kind of close us up. But if you could go back and talk to your, I don't know, 18, 19, 20-year-old self, or maybe even yourself, that when you, when you hung up the cleats and you decided it was done, and when you felt that kind of shame and sadness, what would have you told him kind of regarding that quote of, "You're more than an athlete"?

Um, you know, it's just a game. It's just a game. Like is just relax. Life is going to continue. The clock's going to keep ticking. The world's going to keep spinning. Mom and Dad are still going to love you, right? The world is not over. And, you know, just remember, it's a game. And again, like, the game got you here. So appreciate that. You know what happened? It happened. It's over. Now go do something great. With your life now. And that was the 5-year gap that I didn't, you know, I didn't do anything great with my life. I felt sorry for myself. So, yeah, if I could go back, I would just be like, look, it's done with. Now go do something else, right? Go have another impact on this planet. Go do something else that, you know, go try to be great at something else. That's what I would have told myself, you know, my senior year or as I was finished playing football, for sure.

I love that so much. Last question for you here, but obviously you have worked with a lot of talented kids and you are working with a lot of talented kids. Like you said, you're more than just a trainer. You're more than just a coach. You're a mentor for them. You help them, part-time therapist. What is the number one thing that you want to leave with them? As they move on and go to college? Like, what do you, what do you want to kind of be your slogan that those kids will always remember that Coach Austin said?

Man, there's a couple of things. I would say bat to get on base. Bat to get on base. Don't— you don't need to swing for the fences. Just bat to get on base. Right. Get on base. Get on base. Get on base. And then one day, right, you're going to hit it over the fence. But just bat to get on base, you know, take it one day at a time. Don't let all the pressures of the world be on you because that's not realistic and that's not how it goes. Take everything just one step at a time, one day at a time, one moment at a time, and enjoy those moments because they come and go. And again, it's like there's a quote that I like. It's, we suffer more in our imagination than we do in reality. And it's just like, you know, why even put yourself in that situation? Enjoy the moments because they go by and things aren't always as bad as you think they are. And so bat to get on base. You don't need to swing for the fences. Enjoy it.

Ross, you've, you've overdelivered today. I really appreciate you sitting down, talking to me, sharing your knowledge and your experiences with the world. Um, I really appreciate that and I can, I, if my son's a wire receiver one day, I'm sending him your way.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, definitely send him over. Send him over. We'll get to work.

Okay. Thanks so much.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Thank you for having me.