How HMA Mortgage Saves $477,000 Annually on Verifications with Truv

Hello everyone, my name is Melissa. I am the senior field marketing manager here at Truth. Um, before we dive into today's webinar, just a couple of quick housekeeping items. So we are recording today's session. So in case any of your coworkers weren't able to join or you yourself have to leave a little bit early, no worries. I will make sure to send it out by the end of the week. We will also be ending our session off today with a Q&A. So in case you have any questions that come up, feel free to drop them into the chat at any time, and we will get to them at kind of the later half, the last like 20 or 15 minutes of the webinar. So today we are going to walk through in detail how HMA Mortgage took $477,000 a year out of their verification spend without slowing down loan officers or borrowers. So with that being said, I'm going to pass the mic over to Kenny, one of our customer success managers here at Troop. So Kenny, take it away.

Thanks so much, Melissa. Appreciate it. And welcome everybody. And welcome Andrew. I've got with me Andrew, who has been working hand in hand directly with HMA throughout the TRUV integration process over the past, over the past several years. So we just want to kind of dive into some of the struggles that HMA was experiencing prior to TRUV and some of the solutions that TRUV provided. And then of course, all of the specifics and the numbers that everybody is probably looking for here. So, Andrew, why don't you just tell me a little bit about what verifications were looking like, you know, prior to Drew's solution?

Yeah, Kenny, thank you for having me. Appreciate being here. As mentioned, I am part of the advisory team to HMA. And simply put, I think we're all sort of used to this story, right? Lots of our friends at the verification service known as the work number sort of an ineffective cascade, if I'm being candid about it. I don't really need to get into those other options on this webinar, but certainly what I consider to be when we came in and started working on this problem, an effective cascade that really eventually led to either spending an inordinate amount of money in getting a verification or an awful lot of labor getting details, enough detail on the consumer, particularly from an income and asset perspective, to complete the file. And so that was a real, I mean, truly that was a challenge, I think, as we prepared not only to streamline this particular service, but looking at HMA's workflow holistically. This was a big deal for HMA as a starting block.

Awesome. Yeah. And where was the, pain, you know, primarily that you felt from the frontline team, right? The processors, underwriters. What were the actual like pain points that you were receiving directly from them as far as like borrower experience?

Yeah, I mean, look, Kenny, I think we're all— and you and I have talked about this and certainly I've talked about it with lots of colleagues in the industry. It's, you know, getting answers, data solutions sooner in the process leads to a much better client experience, whether it's some income that's maybe a little bit challenging, you know, assets across multiple accounts, which is not abnormal these days at all. Having a portal, a Consensus, an ability to pull that at the application stage, almost in the middle of filling out an application, from HMA's perspective, it was incredibly valuable just in the idea of getting more accurate AUS findings, a better initial underwrite, a clear pathway to success for the consumer. When that wasn't in place, what are you really talking about? Well, as I mentioned, you're talking about spending an awful lot of money if you really want that level of symmetry up front. If you really want the bang for the buck, you're going to spend for it. Or really having the customer do things like, I don't know where those W-2s are, right? I have to go find them. I have to download them. I have to get them to you. I have to enter the portal. I've got to put them in the portal. Did you get them? Are they okay? Did you get it in front of an underwriter? Same thing with asset statements. Somebody has to provide not only the statement. Did you miss the last page? Did you, you know, email them in? Where are they? This is labor and an experience that frankly is a little clunky for most consumers. And very few at this point consumers are not used to logging in to a portal and providing information. So it really was laborious for HMA, frankly. And as a shop that really believes in the client comes first, the client comes into the funnel, the client gets in front of a decision maker initially and quickly. It was, you know, it added a lot of days to the cycle time problem for them. And that's not, that's never good for a customer or frankly the sales team. So lots of challenges without the solution. And I think, as I mentioned, a lot of heavy labor on both sides, the borrower side and the lender side.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And to your point about like, you know, chasing down documents, chasing down different workflows and stuff that, you know, different members of the team at different stages might be using. Talk to me a little bit about like the different stages of the workflow, the numerous different systems that you guys were using to try to chase down these verification processes and stuff. And what sort of solutions was HMA looking for? Like, were you guys looking for like a straightforward, you know, one-stop shop or you know, were you looking for— what sort of improvements to your workflow were you looking for whenever you decided to go with Trove?

Yeah.

You know, first of all, to your point, I think it's well said. And I like to say this to not only HMA, but anybody that I'm speaking to about it. Do you really have a rock-solid approval if you're dealing with piecemeal documents through the course of the process? Not really. Right? It's much more advantageous to be able to really have not only confidence, but almost certainty in assets and income when it comes to borrower qualification. So you are moving from system to system, right? POS straight through to your LOS, and then potentially verification, ad hoc verification services sprinkled throughout that process. So for me, you know, moving that into the place where the customer is entering the funnel and allowing them to dig in right then and there was so advantageous to HMA. And that speaks additionally, Kenny, and you and I have talked about this, you're trying to build a workflow that is heavily efficient to the front end of the process and eliminates what you just sort of hinted at, which is all this fragmentation that happens during the workflow. You know, when we started talking about TruVive and I was fortunate enough to bring TruVive to HMA, We really talked a lot about, you know, it's a cornerstone integration because doesn't matter what the AI potential is or the LOS or the POS, having the borrower immediately engaged in their own success can do nothing but speed things up, increase quality, remove questions, uncertainty goes away. It's a winner all the way around. And so we wanted, you know, really holistically, we wanted the fragmentation to go away in the workflow, which we continue to do at HMA. Successfully. But this was one of those bedrock things that, hey, we need a service we can count on. We need one that's easy to integrate with, frankly, and we need one that the borrower is like, this is, this is pretty neat, uh, and easy to do. And, and that's what you guys gave us. So yeah, Cornerstone, something with you— I mean, you know, we, we did this initially when I got to HMA and became an advisor to them. And, uh, it's something I think has worked out really well.

Awesome. Yeah, I think— I would imagine, you know, different processes, different solutions, different workflows that your team was in and out of and stuff, it probably slowed down the, you know, closing process from end to end quite a bit. Talk to me about like your turnaround time, you know, on loans and how much the different workflows and chasing down, you know, documentation manually like slowed things down for you.

Yeah, there's no question. When you look at, I call it a Troove loan, when a customer has engaged with Troove and the digital data is now in the file, You can see it in operating times, you know, between a true file and a quote unquote non-true file where the cycle time, whether it's between the milestones, whether it's total cycle time to clear to close, is significantly— and when I say significantly, like a few days shorter— that might as well be gold to a lender. That is literal gold, that time. It does— it— It provides you, as I said earlier, and I'm going to keep saying it, there's nothing better, whether it's for the LO, certainly the client and the referral partner, but even operations and from a QC perspective, quality perspective, which means execution and better execution to an investor or an agency. When you have certainty, when you know what the income and assets are upfront, prior to anybody really seeing that loan or your AI underwriter looking at that loan. When you have that clarity and certainty, the answers to the test are really easy and they're really fast to complete. And at the end of the day, speed kills. And it is the best thing for a lender to have. You'll, you'll close faster, you'll close cleaner, you'll make less mistakes, you'll have less audits, you'll have less buybacks, and you'll execute better. And that is what That is what Truuv is such an important partner for HMA.

Great. Yeah, great. Thank you. So let's jump right into the solution that Truuv provided for you guys. So we set out and we knew that we wanted to place Truuv, you know, on both LOS and POS at the time. And, you know, we were rolling those out at different times, but you guys got up and running, you know, within 30 days each, which was, which was a pretty speedy turnaround time. You guys have had good success with. So our whole solution and our whole goal at Truth is to, you know, provide the fastest, most accurate, most seamless way to, you know, verify income and employment and assets all in one single platform. Like, we want to do it all in one place, you know, via payroll connections, asset connections, via bank connections and stuff like that. So having everything all in one place, having the same experience for both your team on the back end and the LOS, and both the borrowers on the front end and the POS. How has that impacted everything? Like, having the exact same seamless experience you guys are used to— well, exactly, your team knows exactly what the borrower is seeing, the borrowers know what you guys are seeing, and everything's, everything's aligned. How has that impacted everything?

Yeah, I mean, look, we want In this day and age, we want partners, not vendors. And you and the team and Kirill, you guys are partners. You're obviously being humble, and that 30-day implement was wonderful. You guys tore it out and put it back in, frankly. And it was, you know, I was speaking to Kirill at a conference. I said, hey, look, it's been a little choppy. I'm not sure the integration, you know, the previous tech team at HMA had been a part of that. And Kirill said, yeah, we'll tear it out and put it in again, and it'll be great. And that's exactly what you guys did when we first did the, the first integration. You're a partner. And, and more importantly, when we're talking about strategy or we're talking about, hey, we're gonna tweak the workflow, we're gonna need a new product, or we're gonna move to a new whatever, POS, LOS, I only need to speak with you guys and say, hey, this is where we're headed. This is part of our roadmap. This is where you fit in. You've already got an integration. Let's talk about any hiccups. When you're fragmented and you've got multiple sources and multiple, you know, vendor relationships, it's simply not as easy to be nimble and to keep up with what is a ridiculously fast-moving technology landscape right now. So those two things were really the most critical to me, frankly, were the partnership with you guys. Knowing that you guys were going to be partners, not just vendors, number one. And number two, the fact that you are the solution, period, for VOI, VOE, VOA throughout the process. I don't need to worry about whether I'm putting you in, hey, you're in the POS, you're in the LOS, you're, you know, there's a hybrid, we're going to run an API, we're going to pull some data. It's you guys. And it's easy to have a conversation with you holistically about workflow. So all kinds of advantages, frankly. And, and as I've said, and I know some of my colleagues around the industry feel this way, you guys have turned into partners. We don't, we don't shop you for a service vendor. You're, you're part of the plan. So yeah, it's, that's been hugely advantageous when, again, we are working in an area of change management constantly these days in tech and workflow. It's nice to have a partner that, that is holistically through the whole process.

Yeah, definitely. I think one of the reasons, a big contributing factor to the, the 30-day timeline and getting you guys up and running so far is how much we, we try to strive for bringing product, customer success, support, and sales all together. We're all on the same page. We work closely together to give you guys that, that white glove experience. And I'm glad that that was a contributing factor to getting you up and running so fast. In addition to, I think a big part of working close together, as you said, as a partner rather than a vendor, is giving you full transparency and visibility as well. The reporting that, that Troove gives you guys access to with the Troove dashboard, all of the insights on your conversion, your volumes, all the way— we break it all the way down to, you know, the responses that come back in JSON files and API connections. How has that affected your team and contributed to their success?

Well, one, right, proof of concept is great for all the salespeople. Let's be honest, right, that you can, you can give them The answer to the test, it works. Not only does it work, it actually physically, you can feel the impact to your pipeline. So that's number one. Number two, you know, part of what happened when, you know, when I was able to hop on and start working with HMA was really data was a big deal. Most mortgage companies right now can refine their data a little bit, and that was not needed with you guys. It was, hey, what do you want to see? How do you want to see it? We've already started having discussions about data warehouse and the API and can we drop the data in and you guys have been terrific. It is so critical to be able to show real data, real movement, real success. A success story is worth a thousand words. So yeah, it's been, it's that, again, that part of the partnership with you guys has been awesome. I know some of the people working with us, particularly Amy, have come to you, hey, what's our conversion on this? Can we get this? You know, you're laughing because, you know, you know, Amy's in there knocking the data out of the park. That you guys have been responsive, you know, giving it to us the way we need to and whatever format it has to come in. And those things are, again, when you're running a company and you're trying desperately to sort of realign things, talk about additional tech, hey, what is our success rate? That product, LO, office, cost center, those metrics are critically important and you guys have been great with it. So yeah, again, incredibly helpful. Easy to get. You guys have been tremendous to collaborate with and again becomes part of the stack of, you know, how do we, how do we take this company to the next level? And that's been helpful.

Yeah, no, likewise, your team has been fantastic to work with, not only as far as cooperation throughout the integration process, but as a partner working like super close hand in hand, being open and receptive to, you know, Tru's suggestions as far as best practices and enablement.

Oh yeah.

That I feel like has heavily contributed to your success. But yeah, I think getting into the actual numbers, right? We mentioned the number that you guys were, you know, spending beforehand and how that was probably the major pain for all of us is, you know, how much money we're actually throwing away. We hate looking at those invoices and those figures, but let's get into the actual numbers a little bit. Like, you know, $477,000 $1,000 of annual savings. Where was this primarily coming from? How did you guys first start noticing it and what kind of impact did it have behind the scenes?

Yeah, I mean, Kenny, as you know, right, you roll something like this out, you need adoption from your sales team, right? You need customers to understand why it's so important and how secure it is and how much easier it makes it. And as we started to ramp and get more engagement at the consumer level, the immediate impact was obvious, right? It was the invoice from our friends at the typical verification service. And those invoices were, as everybody knows in this business, have escalated hundreds of percent over the last few years, 300%, frankly. And, you know, you start seeing the invoice go down month after month, consistently. That's not, that's not an ROI calculation. That is real money, real invoice, real cash sitting in the business. Um, you know, the second part of that is, is, as we talked about earlier, you know, speed, speed matters and quality matters. And, and every time a loan sits on the warehouse line, you're wasting a little bit of money. And every time you can deliver, close, uh, and execute cleanly and get, and obviously sell that deal, whether it's agency or aggregator, you are saving money on the warehouse line. Again, completely able to calculate that ROI. That is not a phantom number or some sort of theoretical number. And then clearly, you know, from an execution perspective, anytime you shorten cycle time as a mortgage company, you're removing interest rate risk at a better level and you're getting better aggregator execution. And we all sell to some aggregators. Where you don't get as many questions and answer sessions back and forth playing ping pong with conditions from the aggregators around income and assets. You get better, you obviously get way better traction in day one certainty. You certainly get better traction with income and assets being validated upfront. All these things are measurables. Every one of them affects a company every single day. So not only was it the invoice, you know, immediately the invoice amount started to go down. But execution, cost to execute, lines, all those things on the back end of the process become more efficient. And so, yeah, I, you see it immediately and then you start seeing it cumulatively over time. And frankly, the goal, I think, for all of us, it needs to be to drive as much as we can in having a customer be really comfortable in engaging with a Truve portal and just continuing to drive engagement because it only helps them and you as a lender, which is what I tell all of my clients.

Absolutely. Yeah. And then to your point, you know, every single connection, every single invoice generated, every single hit on the data that Drew is able to secure and populate the information is savings. It's money back in your pocket. So every one of them, that's our goal. And, and you know that we do that through, you know, pushing Higher conversion numbers, you know, every single hit on the data that we do connect with payroll providers, bank connections, all the different sources that we use to compile this data and secure these verifications for you, secure the income calculation for you guys. It all contributes to your overall conversion. You guys have had 87% verification of asset login conversions. So that's everybody that has attempted to log in. We've had 87% successes. That's not just login successes. That's true of actually being able to pull and secure that data. Yep. And from the bank connections, actually be able to calculate the income and actually be able to have your team move along through the loan process and get those loans submitted over to the GSEs. So that's to another point, our verification of assets and both verification of assets and verification of income and employment fully validated by both Fannie and Freddie as of last year. So having that 87% on the VOA, tell me, you know, how did verification of assets— when did you guys start really using verification of assets? Were you using it before? And how has Troops Verification of Assets, you know, contributed to your operation?

Yeah, I mean, look, game changer. You know, collection of bank statements was pretty much how this was happening before for HMA. It's so critically important. As it relates to not only what you just said, which is all, you know, repped and warranted, the speed, having the information up front, but clearly as every lender now is embattled in the middle of automated underwriting and AI and all the buzzwords we hear, right? Like we can all go through them, bots and AI and automation and all those fun things that we all talk about and strategize about. Most of that's not really possible at a high, high level. Without a solution like Troove that gives you that sort of ease of integration. And 87%, frankly, is an amazing number for a company that didn't— never sold an integration like this to a consumer before. And that's awesome. And that we need to keep driving that down the funnel and down the pipeline because the future for, I think, for every lender is an integration like this is a, is a bedrock. It's a foundational platform, which AI will sit on top of and leverage the return from Trueve to get a much more accurate, clean, automated underwriting response. Or to your point earlier, an accurate one that may need human intervention, but identifying that and leveraging people's expertise on the loans that need it versus the loans that don't. It's so much easier with Trueve in the middle of it and providing that information. So yeah, for lots of different reasons, for a company that really, you know, relied on the old-school verification service that we mentioned earlier and really just bank statements coming in, this was a huge departure and win for them to get that much adoption that quickly, I think. And there is no one in the company that isn't a fan and is excited about the future of it as we improve the tech stack and some of the integrations with you guys and leveraging it. So yeah, it's been— HMA has done a terrific job with that. Terrific.

Yeah, we've heard a lot of excitement from your team and definitely excited about the stuff that we're working on for the future with you guys. So it'll be great. On the income and employment side, that's obviously, you know, income and employment is been in the game a little bit longer. It's a little bit more traditional as far as the means of verifying income and employment through payroll connections. 57% there. I mean, login conversion, 57%. It's obviously going to be a little bit lower than verification of assets. Bank connections are becoming a little bit more standardized these days. A lot more borrowers obviously know their bank connections, bank credentials more than their payroll credentials. But we're able to pull just as much data over from directly from payroll providers and have the same GSE approvals on VOIEs. So your verification of income and employment, you know, versus the move towards VOA, you know, hopefully in the future is with some of these automated processes like you mentioned, with the existing and things being as they currently are with VOIE still, you know, for the time being, what's some of the feedback that you've heard about the data that comes back on the VOIE reports from these payroll providers, the calculation that Truve performs and the accuracy of it and things like that?

One, I think, you know, the word that keeps coming back consistently is a complete picture, complete data. Critical. Absolutely critical. You know, one of the things that I think we all recognize is there is a portion of the pipeline, anybody, any lender's pipeline that is pretty standard, you know, wage earner, some overtime potentially, maybe not, some bonus income. And I call those the, you know, the A+ borrower, relatively high FICO, you know, consistent, steady, normal income. Honestly, there really is no reason, no good reason for that loan to take up labor and bandwidth within the lender's fulfillment column. And so The complete picture that Trueve gives and frankly the ease of use and leveraging of that data and the income calc, which truly has been for the sales team especially helpful, truly helpful on the front end of it. We all talk about underwriters and we can talk that one to death, how they love to recalculate their income, but at the end of the day, I say this constantly, and I think anybody on this webinar right now that has heard me ever speak, giving the sales team the answers to the test at the point of sale is so crucial in the future. And that's what Troove does. And as HMA is moving to some technology, and I'm not giving anything away here, Kenny, this is going to stay between you and I, as they move toward a much more robust upfront system and an AI presence there that's going to leverage Troove even more effectively. The LO is not just going to get the answers to the test with Troove. They're going to get several versions of answers that are possible down their pathway. And there's nothing more important. There's literally nothing more important. So one of the things that we're going to strive to do, you know, during the back half of the year is do a better job of driving that percentage up higher. It can't do anything but help. And the sales team loves it when it works. And when I say when it works, you know, with our integration, the customer engages and nobody in through the fulfillment line, straight down to when we're talking to an investor or an agency, it is so much easier to have the data, to look at the data, to understand what's happening with the consumer. And on a large percentage of the pipeline, eventually, from an AI perspective especially, humans won't need to have the rigor around a large percentage because Trueve would have done the work. The AI would have helped Trueve complete the file and condition it. And people are working on really important things, helping borrowers get through tougher loans. And that's, I mean, that's gold. That's scale and capacity, and you can't ask for more than that.

Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, again, just to bring out those conversion points again, those numbers again, every single percentage point of conversion just drives, you know, more savings, puts more money back in your pocket. We try to get there, you know, obviously 30 days is pretty impressive. You know, we did that no small part from your team in cooperation with us to get you live up and running within 30 days on both platforms. But your experience just, you know, working with the Troove team, any, you know, everywhere from support, the sales process, the success process, any of the technical integrations, the technical questions, just working directly with the Troove team. What's your just experience there?

Yeah, look, I mean, the highest compliment I can pay you guys, and I want to be clear, right? You don't compensate me for this. You don't beg. You don't plead. We don't talk. I, as I advise multiple companies through the industry, I choose you. You were— they gave me the choice of what I thought the right answer was from HMA, and I chose Troove. And, you know, that is simply a reflection of, look, the integration's the integration. You guys do great work there. It is the team. It is the accessibility. It is the partnership. It is the commitment to success, to solving problems, to great reporting. What are we doing in the future? Frankly, you guys have never let me down when it comes to a client or an integration. I have my pick of the litter, right? I'm not— I'm not sort of— I don't work for Truven. I don't work for the lender today directly. It was important to me for my business. And when I make a recommendation to a lender or to an institution, Hey, what do you think the right answer to the test is for us from this sort of platform? I choose you. So, you know, Amy loves interacting with you guys. She's somebody on my team, the HMA team. You guys are flawless with them. They, again, consider you a partner. The integration was fast. It was, it was fast. It was collaborative. Any questions or sort of as we tweaked it, where was it going to go? How was it going to land? You know, was it firing off correctly? You guys were always there hand in hand with us to make sure it was a white glove implement, provided materials for us to roll out. It was, it was again really well done. And that's why typically I, I always, you know, pedal you guys along to make me look good. But yeah, the team was terrific. You continue to be terrific and I think with HMA, this is obviously a long-term engagement and partnership with you guys. I don't, I don't doubt that for a second.

Awesome. Yeah, we're definitely looking forward to it and appreciate it again. Well, I really appreciate, you know, diving into all the specifics that you've done and giving us, you know, a little bit more insight into the depth of our partnership and definitely looking forward to it. Want to open it up now just for some questions. I know we've got one in the chat right now. Gina says, what, what is the, what LOS do you currently use? You know, you're welcome to dive into that or, you know, allude to it however you please.

No, I'm happy to listen. Kenny, I've told you I'm a consultant. I can't get in trouble. You know, HMA uses Encompass. Currently, as it's LOS under contractual obligation, as you guys all know. They love their contracts. But to be fair, other clients I have that use Troove are not necessarily on Encompass. And, you know, from a POS perspective, which I think is probably just as important or more important than the LOS, you guys have really robust and great integrations with a lot of, most of, if not all of the POSs you would want to get engaged with. So, yeah, it's an Encompass integration. It's seamless. It can be done not only at the point of sale, but out of the Encompass system. And it's just as good, frankly, out of the Encompass system. It's very non-threatening. It's very easy to send the link. It's very easy to get them engaged. Your ops team, you know, I have, there are times when the salesperson is selling the feature and really for some reason the ops team is the one that gets them engaged and pulls them in. So yeah, again, integrates well with Encompass, comes back and communicates back with Encompass incredibly well, runs through your, gets into your findings automatically, punch, hits the punch list. It does a great job whether it's LOS, POS, but we use, HMA uses Encompass today.

Yeah. And to your point on how, you know, obviously robust Encompass can be, we all know how, you know, massive and daunting it can be at times. And some of the, you know, improvements that they do and the updates that they roll out can be rather large and in-depth. But you guys went live in Encompass, you know, in under 30 days. What did that look like? What, with no, with, you know, not anything to do with TruV on your team, what sort of best practices did you guys put in place in order to get up and running with a vendor switch and Encompass in under 30 days?

Yeah. So one, like you said, it was, it was a quick implementation and we immediately during the implementation started thinking about, okay, if it's, if we miss the point of sales tollgate, right? If it ends up in fulfillment, you know, HMA is an underwriting-first shop today, meaning, you know, we clean it up at the sales stage and we get it in front of an underwriter pretty quickly. So One of the things we wanted to do, and we're refining now as we're sort of reinventing the workflow a little bit in the tech stack, is getting, having communication with the customer and continuing to sort of communicate the benefits to the customer of why logging in through the portals is so important. And that was pre, you know, conditional approval, and then even post. There's value to it post, particularly if all you have is, some limited documentation coming through the front end or a pre-approval, a fully underwritten pre-approval. So we have some real scripting workflow in continuing to drive the customer down this road and explaining the benefits to them and their loan and their process. But it's really, to be honest about it, it's incredibly simple when the customer says, hey, send You know, send me a link. I'll give it a shot. I'll try it. It's incredibly easy to get it to them, number one, to walk them through it. And number three, once they get the feel of it, they pretty— I mean, they'll log in both. If they— if to your point, Kenny, they remember the credentials. So we don't give up on it, right? I know it seems, well, you know, you already have it in underwriting. Why would you need it then? Well, you'd be surprised. You know, you get a more complete data picture. You don't have all the docs yet. There is still value completely through the fulfillment process up until conditions are being reviewed to really keep pushing the integration. So that's the strategy while we keep trying, you know, and we are working on a new upfront sales point of sales solution that will hopefully drive a much higher percentage of folks into it. But yeah, it's worth it through the whole process, frankly.

Awesome, awesome. Yeah, that kind of leads into— I was going to ask another follow-up question about, you know, during the switch, were you, you know, did you do any sort of A/B testing? Did you run into any sort of, you know, side-by-side vendors or at the time during the switch? And then Hector in the chat actually just asked, you know, if you've tried, you know, the Income solution from Equifax, which is supposed to have, you know, similar capabilities, but With any A/B testing that you guys did do or any other vendors that you explored, you know, why did Troove ultimately end up winning?

You know, yeah, I mean, look, um, you test, you do A/B testing for two simple reasons, right? Effectiveness and, for lack of a better term, UI, right? What, what is the customer going to engage with more readily? Um, we had a waterfall, as I mentioned, at one point. You know, I'm not, I'm certainly not here to criticize Equifax. I think they do what they do and it's wonderful. It's not similar in my, my humble opinion in terms of capabilities. Trueve is a much cleaner, more accurate, deeper typical hit when you get it if the customer engages. And frankly, it's really simple to use on the front end of the process in particular. The way it integrates with your POS and the look of it is is really seamless. So yes, we did, we tested. I mean, whether it's at HMA or previously in my career, we have, the team has tested just about everything and in a waterfall at one point where we would go from one to the other and spend a million dollars. You know, we found and continue to find Troove is the easiest for the customer. It's certainly the easiest for the sales team and the fulfillment team. And again, the partnership. Hey Kenny, question for you, blah, blah, blah. It comes back quickly. We partner, we remediate. If we move strategy around, you guys are right there with us to talk about it. So for all those reasons, when we're testing things out, the answer for us continues to be TRUF.

Great.

Great. Thanks. Hector, for your other question, I think I can kind of chime in here. Those numbers, they are running both. So HMA is currently running both VoA and VoIE. They run both right out of the point of sale. So borrowers are presented with the option to connect both automatically right in their point of sale. They tend to get back a VOA, which I believe is placed before VOIE in the workflow in their particular point of sale. They get back VOA on pretty much every single application. VOIE comes back almost— it's right behind VOA. And then on the manual side and Encompass, your team I know is placing both VOAs and VOIEs True's integration in Encompass allows you to place both at the same time, which is super intuitive. You're just able to one click of a button, you can shoot out a single link to the borrower where they're able to then click both the VOA and VOIE all at once. So yeah, those numbers are for, for both and they are ordering pretty much both, I believe, on every single order. So yeah, cool. If Andrew, if a borrower's employer or provider isn't supported for whatever reason, for, you know, instant digital verification. What do you guys do, you know, after that? I know that TRUV does have some fallback options that we have, like document upload, which if verification of employment isn't available through the provider, we're able to actually capture those manual statements rather than chasing them down on your own. They're able to upload the documents right there in the same portal that they connect automatically. What does your team, you know, prefer? What do they do if they move on from, if they're not able to capture it automatically for whatever reason?

Yeah. I think, Kenny, today it's exactly how you described it. Right? They, one thing that HMA is moving toward, and when I say a stronger integration or a better managed integration, not only with your data and how that operates is really, you know, The holy grail is the POS, right? Is either engaging directly in the portal or uploading, you know, through there, whether it's with your service or if folks have other services. That is really what we're going to be focused on the rest of the year with our upfront technology move and really getting you folks even more embedded within that new stack and AI process. I always tell, you know, I always tell every sales team I'm lucky enough to spend some time with, you know, we're going to meet the customer where they want to be. We're going to give them the advantages. We're going to try and get them to understand how incredibly impactful this is. But at the end of the day, you know, we're going to get them in the funnel any way they want to get in. And that you guys are a big part of that with exactly what you just described, as well as some eventual, you know, AI integrations that'll come in and help with the more manual processes versus having a human have to do it. So, yeah, I truly, I think the integration, the, the partnership, the usage is just gonna get better in the second half of this year. I'm actually so thrilled at how well HMA has embraced this thing and, and just as importantly, how ready they are to use it. I think that's just gonna get better and better as we move through the year. It's going to be great.

Yeah, yeah, agreed. Another question. From my understanding, client has to log into TRUV through the Bridge connection, the login screen. Does that create friction for the client? How do you think about the potential of losing revenue by creating additional friction for the consumer versus using the work number without needing to bother the consumer?

So a couple of things. Number one, I don't see it as additional friction. I think the integration, particularly Truves, is pretty seamless. It's embedded within the POS. They're not leaving and going somewhere. They're not following breadcrumbs in a link somewhere typically unless it's, you know, through the LOS. But it is incredibly easy for them. To engage the portal. It's, it's very natural feeling if you guys haven't seen it through the workflow in your POS. It feels like it's part of the deal. Many of our clients don't question it. They just think it's part of the application process. You guys have done a really great job sort of logo brand, like just it looks like part of the application process. And so from that perspective, I don't see it as frictional. What I do know is the work number again brought up, that is, you're either A, bundling and passing that on or trying to, or B, you're absorbing that cost, which can only down the road while other lenders are trying to get to lower fees, lower rates, more competitive fee structure for the consumer. That can't— that path can't lead you there. That service is just going to get more expensive, not less. And it's going to run ahead of any other verification service. And so to me, the friction becomes, you know, your sales team not wanting their origination fee to be increased because you're paying, you know, $150,000 a month in verification costs at minimum and passing that on. You're going to pass it on to the consumer somehow. Origination fee rates, points, whatever you're going to do. Corporate's got to cover that cost somewhere. So to me, the friction is not an issue. And I think everybody, I think at this point, is used to technology to a point where everybody gets it. We don't get a lot of pushback or friction about the integration, about how it works, about what it returns, or the borrower experience. We do get an awful lot of How much did we spend on the work number last month? And corporate teams are, you know, frankly, all of us are scrambling around looking for better solutions, and this certainly is one. So I don't feel that kind of friction. If everybody wants to really talk about that at a deeper level, I mean, reach out to me, whether it's LinkedIn or somewhere else. I'm happy to walk some folks through that. It is not something that customers typically, as you can tell by the, percentages in the first few months that HMA has had it, you don't find a lot of friction in the process. You're not going to incur that.

Great.

Awesome.

One more question. Heard Troove has a new solution where it is success-based for mortgage. Has Andrew tried it and how does the product work? Success-based for mortgage.

I assume they're talking about success-based pricing.

Possibly.

I mean, we can—

Hector, if you got some questions about pricing, I mean, definitely, definitely reach out to us directly and we can go over some of that. But yeah, we'll dive into pricing. Happy to do that anytime. Awesome. I think that's all the questions that we've got, Andrew. Again, just much appreciated. It's been great sitting down and talking with you. I've just loved working with the HMA team. You guys have been fantastic. I'm super excited to see you guys as successful as you are and really, really pumped about the future and some of the changes that you guys are doing and inviting Troove along with you while you do it. So super excited. And Melissa, I can hand it back over to you.

Yes, thank you again, Andrew and Kenny.

My pleasure.

Joining us today. That's it for today. So we'll kind of give you a couple minutes back with I know is always appreciated. But as mentioned before, I will be sending out this recording. You're welcome to share it with anyone who wasn't able to join, or, you know, anyone who you might think could find this conversation helpful. So thank you again. Have a great day.

Thanks, Chris.

Great. Thanks, everybody.