Common Preparation Mistakes with Pete Mockaitis

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Pete, thanks for joining us today.

Oh, Kwame, it's awesome to be here. Thank you.

Yes, it is great to have you on, Pete. We've been friends for a long time, and this is kind of overdue, in my opinion. So I am glad you have graced us with your presence.

Oh, shucks. Well, I owed you a T shirt for a long time, so I guess we're even in the overdue department.

Yes. Yes, for sure. Well, cool. How about we start off by telling the listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Oh, sure thing. Well, I have a education and research organization, and so I do coaching and keynotes and workshops in the universe of helping professionals operate better. So, you know, if you have a knowledge work type job and you got to do a lot of thinking and figuring stuff out and communicating with colleagues about it, then I can help you do that better. So to that end, I've got one on one coaching and workshops and my podcast called how to Be awesome at yout Job, all geared towards those dimensions.

Fantastic. And you just kind of glossed over the fact that you have a podcast for the listeners. Pete is a very humble man. How to Be awesome at yout Job is one of the top career podcasts in the world, constantly ranked incredibly highly on the charts. So, yes, make sure you check that podcast out.

Oh, thanks, Kwame.

No, I appreciate it, man.

I like you more and more.

You see, I have to get you in a good mood so we can have a good interview.

Then you have the gotcha questions.

Exactly. Well, the reason I wanted to have you on is because I'd like to talk a little bit about how you can prepare effectively for negotiation. And we're going to talk about three areas where you can focus your preparation. So how about you tell us a little bit about preparation, why it's important, and then we can jump into those three areas.

Oh, sure thing. Well, I think we've probably all heard that preparation is important, but it doesn't sound as cool or sexy as these, you know, ninja negotiation tactics, like look in their eye this way and then use this magical phrase and you'll have some Jedi mind control powers, you know, at your disposal. Well, one, those tactics are just about always not quite true. I mean, we could talk about the. The Bob Sheldini weapons of influence, which are awesome. But I think a lot of it really boils down to whether you're getting a great deal or that you feel over awesome about or not so much. It comes down to the upfront research that you do in terms of you've really got a clear sense of what are the alternatives out there, what are the numbers associated with things, what's the quality of this opportunity? And you know it. Well, it's such that you will have little regret if you do your research. One, because you will get a better outcome and two, because you really know what's out there. It's like, okay, hey, this is really a pretty good thing. Whether you're negotiating a salary or a car or a home improvement project, you know, you name it. When you're well equipped with the research, you're there. I remember, Kwame, you had a story about your car purchase and rather than it boiling down to a really cool negotiation trick, it just boiled down to you having great research upfront. Right?

Exactly. And so that was the three part car negotiation series where I broke down from the beginning how to prepare for the negotiation, what you can anticipate in the second episode. And then the last one was a recorded negotiation with a dealer. And I almost didn't air it because the conversation was so easy because the preparation did all the work. So, yeah, I definitely am a proponent of that style of preparation thoroughly. And I would be remiss if I didn't let the listeners know or remind them about the free negotiation guide that they can get. It's an 18 page ultimate negotiation guide that you can get on the website if you go to americannegotiationinstitute.comguide and I'll put a link in the description too so you can have easy access to guide the preparation. So, yeah, we are definitely on the same page, Pete, because preparation is the hidden secret to negotiation, even if it is not the coolest part of it.

How I've got to chime in, if I may, with a car negotiation research story. So we didn't end up buying this car, but we still don't own a car. But with two kids, it's just a matter of days before we're in Chicago. It's pretty easy to be carless because we're so close to the L train there. But it's getting harder with two kids. It was like, okay, all right, our days are numbered. But we thought we'd take a crack at it when we had the first kid. And so we went to a Toyota dealership and so they put out some numbers and I said, oh, but I see the blue book range for vehicles of this kind. I think it was a Toyota Corolla to be this. And I'm not joking you, Kwame, the dealer, I can't even get this out. The dealer on the other side said to us, blue Book. Oh, no, with a question mark. And I was like, my brain was so frazzled, I didn't even, like, process that that really happened. It's like, this doesn't even compute. And no judgment if you haven't bought a car for a while. But the Kelly Blue Book for listeners is like the. Just like the standard pricing for cars that just about anybody who has bought a car or considered buying a car recently or actually for decades, it's been around, you know, has looked at at one point. So it's very clear that she's familiar with that. And so it didn't even compute in my brain. I forgot it. And then my wife said to me later, blue Book. And I was like, well, yeah, that happened, didn't it? And it was so mind blowing. It's like, either she's unaware of the Blue Book and it's okay, I'd say if you're the average American to have not heard of the Blue Book, no judgment. But I mean, if you're in the car business, like, that's so standard. And it really torpedoed her credibility. It's like, I think that you are deceiving me right now. If you are feigning to not know this or her credibility is torpedoed because it's like, well, you don't know this and you should. Are you really that knowledgeable about vehicles? Maybe I should talk to somebody else. So anyway, that's an aside. But Blue Book just.

That's wild.

Tickles me.

That is incredible. Yeah. But I think that really speaks to the value of preparation. Because let's say, hypothetically, if this was her first day on the job, sure. Then if that was hypothetically the first day on the job, in order to prepare, she should have talked to a supervisor who had more experience. She should have tried to figure out a way to objectively verify the cost of the car. And if you look for objective verification of the cost of the car, if you just Google how to price a car, Blue Book will be number one. That'll be right up there. So it's really an indictment of a lack of preparation. And the lack of preparation had a negative impact on her authority and credibility. And since you mentioned Robert Cialdini's book, the Principles of Influence, which is, I would suggest, recommended reading for you listeners of the podcast, Authority is one of the six principles of influence. And if you lose that up front, it's going to be really difficult for you to be persuasive.

So, again, preparation for bringing it back to something that's valuable. Whereas I was like, get a load of this crazy story. But that's true. And I think it's true that if, you know, if you've done your research, you have an extra dose of authority that you're conveying, as well as confidence going in in terms like, okay, I'm not gonna be pushed around. I can walk at this number and feel great about it. And that is picked up on the other side. And I think that the other side, your counterpart, their negotiation, is gonna be shaped by their perception of how well you've prepared. It's like the. They're going to think, can I pull some stuff with this guy or can I not? Based upon the extent to which they are demonstrating they know their stuff.

Exactly. Yeah. It's funny. And then on this point, because I was presenting at the Ohio Department of Commerce this morning, and one of the questions was geared towards dealing with people who are dishonest. And I said, think about a third grader, a third grade bully. A bully in third grade is going to bully other third graders, second graders, and first graders, and kindergarteners. That bully is unlikely to bully a seventh grader because there's a sizable difference in the physical stature. They don't think they can get away with it. And when it comes to bad behavior, a lot of times when people engage in bad behavior, they do it because they feel like they can get away with it. And if you make it clear that you've done your research and you're knowledgeable, they don't believe that they can pull one over on you. So it makes it less likely for them to try to deceive you. So knowing the details and the specifics of the deal and preparing effectively is one of the best things you could do defensively for yourself in these negotiations.

Well said.

Thank you.

Well, cool. Let's jump into it. So what are the three things that we should focus on? Three major things that we should focus on when preparing for our negotiations?

Oh, sure thing. And I couldn't help but turn it into a little bit of an acronym. And, Kwame, my hat's off to you in your show prep in terms of getting your guests to really, you know, streamline it a bit. So I'm going to call it three things. First, the numbers of the matter. Secondly, the alternatives available, and thirdly, the quality. We might say that spells knack and Q. You'll have a knack for research if you follow these three things. I just made that up. How's that feel? Is that too.

I love it. No, I love it. I love it. One way or another. It's not forgettable.

Cool. So, yeah, when it comes to the numbers, I mean, I think that, well, first you just want to know the basics that are out there. And I think when it comes to, for example, a salary situation, this is probably not news to folks, but you want to get a sense for a given position in a given geography. What are the figures out there? There's some great websites. You know, you got your glass door, you got your pay scale, you got your salary, you got your comparably.com is another one. I really like to also assess cultural elements even above and beyond the numbers, and just sort of get a sense of what's out there. I have saved, for example, some really great money on home renovation things just by going to homeadvisor.com and they can give you what they call their true cost guide to tell you what should it cost to put in a new garage door or to, you know, rewire something or to put in carpeting or whatever. And then you have it right there. And so I found that so handy because from that point I can, then I can get a number and I can say, hmm, that sounds high based on HomeAdvisor, I guess I'll call someone else. And then I just kept doing that until I got a better number. It's like, okay, that sounds about right. Given home Advisor. And that's that. I've also been surprised to learn from other real estate investors. Like the first few times it's happened, I'd be kind of spooked. I'd get like, you know, maybe four different plumbers to give me a bid on a project in terms of getting some in unit washer dryer action possible right on our rental unit upstairs. And so I'd be spooked that one number of the four would be maybe half that of the other three. I say, oh, is there something wrong with this number? Is this guy cutting all sorts of quarters? Am I going to have a pipe explode and have a real big mess? And as I chatted with folks, they told me, oh, no, that's actually quite common that I will get one number that is about half that of the others. And sure enough, I've seen this time and time again for folks who are doing, say, a deep cleaning of the apartment unit before the next person comes in. Like one is half of the other and is just as good or even better. So that's what I am talking about when it comes to the research and the numbers is that sometimes there's a published source of those numbers like those job websites or homeadvisor.com and other times you gather those numbers yourself by calling perhaps 20 potential vendors so that you are putting a picture together and calling your friends, checking out the Facebook, hey, what did this cost you? And then you've got a great picture. So you are going to feel strong and confident walking in there and saying, oh yeah, $4,000 for that plumbing job. Forget that.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

And what you're seeing here is, and it speaks to what you said earlier about the fact that research gives you confidence because you know what you're going to say during the conversation. If somebody gives you an offer that is just outside of the scope of possibility or does not work for you, you can quickly and confidently say no. And just think about the impact that has on the other person persuasively. So if somebody says, can you do this number? And you definitively say no, unfortunately that doesn't work for me. But let's continue talking to see what works versus can you do that? You know what? I don't think that'll work. Oh, okay. So when I hear that, that's like there's blood in the water now. So I'm going to laser in on that and keep on pushing because my by your response, I know it's in the realm of possibility. So it's going to take me a lot more to get off that position because just because of the lack of confidence you had, I believe it's possible.

Absolutely. That's well said. In terms of the confidence you're conveying there now, things I think get a little bit trickier when there it's not just a number. Right. Let's say one plumber is going to throw in some extra stuff like, oh, it's also put a whole home water filtration system, you know, in there. It's like, oh, okay, well now it's not perfectly apples to apples or it's like, oh, well, one garage door company had a nicer garage door that's in there. And so I think when those things get into the picture, I just recommend that to the extent that's possible, try to quantify the unquantifiable. And so you would say, okay, so if it's a nicer garage door, what does that really mean for me? Does it mean it will last more years before it has to be replaced. Okay, well, then I could just sort of factor that in in terms of dollars over my lifetime of having garage doors, you know, I'm going to save this many dollars because it's a higher quality door. Okay, cool. Or a lot of times I think it's about time savings in terms of, like, okay, so if it's higher quality, that means I'm not going to have to go out and fiddle with the thing, you know, for 15 minutes, you know, once a month to, I don't know, reset a filter or, you know, clean out the junkie, something, I don't know, in the home renovation world. So you could see, okay, well, what money am I earning? And I do recommend folks just know their number in terms of wealth generated per hour invested in your job or your business initiatives so that you could say, okay, well, hey, my time is worth 50 bucks an hour. If I am saving this time fiddling with this thing over this many years, that's, hey, 10 hours, 50 bucks an hour, 500 bucks. Oh, for only 200 extra dollars of investment for the higher quality thing. Well, cool. I'm going to go ahead and feel great about that because the higher quality saved me 500 bucks worth of time for just $200 worth of extra investment. That's a good deal. So I think that's the other part of the number research is going after quantifying the tricky spot because sometimes you may be surprised that it's totally worth it to spend just a little bit extra. Or it's totally not, because more quality doesn't really mean much for your life. Like, your garage is not a showroom. It doesn't need to be crazy fancy, you know, So I don't care about at the quality door in certain contexts.

I was at a keynote the other day and a listener walked up to me and said, hey, Kwame, my favorite part of the show, it's the ads. He was the only person who said that, though. If you don't like ads, maybe you should consider joining Negotiate Anything Premium, where you can access insights from your favorite negotiation experts with ad free listener and extended episodes bonus, you'll also get access to exclusive solo episodes and personalized advice from yours truly. If you've been looking for an easy and affordable way to level up your skills and negotiate more of the best things in life, join our premium community. Click the link in the show notes to learn more. And now enjoy this commercial.

And so, for that gentleman who told.

Me he enjoys the commercial, this one's for you, right?

And the beauty of this is that knowing your numbers and having a really good understanding of what you need and what works for you brings clarity. Clarity decreases stress, and decreased stress improves your performance. And that's really what we're going for. Because once you are clear on those things, like what matters to you, you're going to perform at a higher level during the conversation. And I even take it a step further when it comes for quantifying the unquantifiable and even try to quantify my stress. How stressful is this? Oh, yeah, is this $200 worth of stress? Is it 500? Is it 1,000? And it really, really helps. It's really tough to do it at first, but once you start doing it and you ask yourself, would I be willing to pay $300 to avoid this level of stress? No, actually, no. I'll deal with that stress for $300. But maybe it's a situation where it's like, okay, would I pay $1,000 to get rid of the stress? Oh, yeah, this feels horrible.

Totally.

Let's get rid of this. Let's move on to alternatives. So tell us a little bit about that.

Oh, sure thing. Well, I think in a way we kind of touched a bit about that when it comes to the numbers is, you know, sort of what's the alternative? Like in terms of another plumber or garage door person or a job? You know, we kind of get that in the numbers. But I think it's good to think about alternatives even more broadly. So you could think about alternatives in terms of what if I just did nothing? Or what if I bought the thing that helps with this goal I'm after? Or what if I hired someone to do that? So, for instance, we might be talking about, why don't we say transcription? Shall we?

Yes.

So I have transcripts on all my podcast episodes, and I find that that is helpful for those who prefer to read as well as those who want to search the full text of all 400 podcasts. 20 something episodes, you know, that's available because of the, of the transcription. There's a few alternatives that I have there. One, I could just not have transcripts. I could do it myself. I could have an automated software program do a bad transcript. I could hire someone locally in the US to do transcription. I could find a person who does that out there. And so I just think it's really great to get come up with the full lineup as well as to say, what about just not having it at all? Would that be okay? Would there be a cost that I am unwilling to experience as a result of not having it all. And so if you look at it very broadly, I think your, your ideas can broaden so that you get more optimal outcomes. So, for example, what has happened recently is I've evolved from using the Rev.com, which is a buck a minute for transcription. Not bad, you know, it's kind of convenient, you know, but it's like, oh, you're not quite doing it in the format that I want. And I can't quite specify that. It's like, okay, well, I'm going to get a crew of transcribers over@upwork.com, which is a freelancer website. And so they're doing it. And then we brought it down to 60 cents per minute because we're sort of cutting out the middleman and I'm getting right directly to the worker. So we brought that down to 60 cents a minute. Well, now, recently I've brought it down to about 60, 17 cents a minute. And the way that works is I'm using the website Otter AI to do an automated transcription and then having folks merely correct it. So the Transcript is maybe 88% correct, which sounds okay, but that's really like 18 errors per minute, roughly, you know, so. But it's easier, it does not require tremendous typing capability to correct 18 little things in a minute than to be, you know, at breakneck speeds and playing the whole recording back three, four times to get there. So I now have recruited a new crew of automated transcription correction correctors to make that happen. And the result is that their jobs are a little less intense and they are leveraging the power of technology that could work. And I'm paying less. And their hourly, you know, take home is pretty comparable as compared to what it was before. So that's an example of thinking about things based on broad alternatives as opposed to only what's the other guy going to offer me? You see, you could think about a job, for example, as, okay, that is a vehicle or an avenue toward wealth creation. Well, what are other alternatives? I could start a business. I could have a side hustle. I could invest my money in these sorts of ways to generate money in a semi passive or fully passive kind of a way. So I just encourage you to think really broadly about your alternatives and you might have some fun, creative insights that open up the negotiation and cool new fun ways.

Pete, there was so much in there that was brilliant. I don't even know where to start.

This is great.

So one of the things that I don't want people to overlook is the fact that you have a very broad definition of value. And so it's easy to get tunnel vision if you have a specific thing that you're trying to get. If it's a job offer, if it is a freelancer or somebody to come in and repair something in your home or rental property, I want somebody to do this specific task for me. But really, what you've done in a really brilliant way, especially with regard to the example of a job, you're not specifically looking for a job. Let's take it back a little bit. You're looking for an avenue for wealth creation. Oh, so things that are not jobs fall into that, that I could possibly explore. And that now expands my alternatives. And one of the things that's critical as an effective negotiator is being creative and figuring out creative ways to meet your needs and the needs of the other party. And by having this expansive view of value, it helps you to create a wider swath of possible alternatives to meet your needs.

Well said. I like that a lot. Absolutely. So you might. You know, I have one of my mentors, his name is Victor Chang, and he's got some great stuff. And he said that with one consulting engagement, he made a rule that instead of using the word competitor, like, his clients were not allowed to say competitor anymore, but they were to use the phrase alternatives to buying from us.

Oh, wow.

So that includes doing nothing, you know, and it really broadened their thinking in terms of our value. What we're offering here should not just be technically better than the other, you know, direct competition solutions, but rather we need to be superior to every alternative to buying from us, you know, including doing nothing. So that caused them to really, it changed the way they thought about what they were delivering, how they were servicing their customers, and making sure that they were just that much superior, so that they were the obvious choice.

That's brilliant. And you know, another thing that we can consider too is the impact that having a broad set of alternatives has on the way that we sequence these negotiations. Because if we say to ourselves, okay, this is my ultimate goal, what I want to accomplish, and then you have, let's say, 5, 10 alternatives, then really recognize that if you were to rank them in terms of being best case scenario for you, there's no need to start trying to negotiate with the thing that is number 10 on the list. If number nine works out, I'm just going to go with that. That's the superior option. Right. And so if you not only List out all these alternatives, but then determine which one is better for what purpose. Then you can come up with a strategy for how you can approach who you should approach first. And then maybe, maybe strategically, what you do is you start negotiating with number two first, and then you get the best deal possible you can with number two, and then say, hold on, and go to number one, and then say, hey, this is the deal I got with number two. So it really opens up the options you have when it comes to negotiation strategies as well.

You know, it's funny. That's exactly what happened with the garage door situation. I got a number back from the contractor who's doing a lot of stuff with us. He's like, hey, I got a garage door guy. Here's the number. I was like, you know what? That just seems high based on homeadvisor.com I mean, I guess I'll keep calling. He's like, all right, well, I'll go back back to him. So he kept bringing down the price just because I kept saying, I don't know. That seems high based on what I'm seeing here. I'll call someone else. So you went back, like, three times. It's like, okay, fine. I mean, it seems like you want this, and we're on the same page in terms of what it should cost now. So away you go.

That's brilliant. I love it. Perfect. So let's move on to number three, Quality.

Sure thing. Well, I think when it comes to quality, it's really important that you define quality on your terms and not, I don't know, the industry or your counterparty's terms. So, for instance, you might think about quality with regard to, is it impressive? Like, folks want to come over and think that the thing you're showing them is really cool, or it's quality because it saves you time, or it's quality just because it gets the job done. It's quality because it's beautiful. I think that it's important to get after that. So, for example, I recently went on a quest to hire some of the top writing talent in the world at available under $12. And if anyone wants to hire some of that, well, $12 an hour, I should say. So if anyone is interested in that, holler at me, Pete awesomeyourjob.com and we can explore that together. And then I've done it, and I found some really sharp folks who are doing some excellent writing. But I think what was interesting is when it comes to the quality of writing, that is really up for interpretation in A lot of ways, in terms of what's good to one person may not seem like it's good to another. Sure, there's spelling and there's grammar issues that we can all agree upon. But then I came up with my definition for quality as I'm looking through, like a hundred potential writers. And it really boils down to how little do I have to correct, update, edit that writing such that it is good and done and ready to publish. And so that's how I'm defining quality in that context, is it's less time required from me. Now, other people could define quality when it comes to writing based upon how visually descriptive was it? Did it really feel like you were there? Or could define quality of writing in terms of, oh, they used a lot of impressively large words and sentences. They really know their way around the English language. And often I found that that was the opposite of what I wanted because the large words and the large sentences and the many clauses packed into those sentences made it less clear of what I was trying to convey. So I just encourage you to do some thinking up front. In terms of what does high quality mean? What does low quality mean to you for your standards, like we talked about with numbers and quantifying the unquantifiable, does it mean it's going to last a long time? Does it mean it's going to save you time in the future? Does it mean it's extra beautiful and impressive and dazzling to others? I think diamonds are interesting when you talk about quality because there's a whole industry associated with the Cs, right? The cut and the clarity and the carrot and the whatnot. But what's really intriguing is they could now manufacture diamonds which are the same chemical compound as diamonds that naturally arise, but they are considered inferior quality because they're not quote, real or natural, even though it's the same chemical composition. And in fact, they are too perfect. And that is how they identify a quote, fake diamond because it's too perfect. And naturally rising diamonds wouldn't be like that. And I just think that's really interesting in terms of how are we defining quality? Is it based upon, you know, these check marks for what makes a diamond good? And does the category of it arose naturally in the earth count as something worthy of a check mark? And hey, for some it does, and for some it doesn't. And if you don't care how it came to be, well, you can get a big, honking, gorgeous, beautiful, perfect rock at a much lower price. So know your definition of quality. And how it differs from the gem dealer.

This is incredible. And so I need to now hold back on my desire to do a deep dive into a philosophical discussion about quality and reality and how that's determined. I'm holding back. We can talk about that offline, but I think this is a really great point. And we can think about it offensively and defensively. So the benefit defensively going into these conversations is that if we're having a conversation with somebody, we can assume that the person wants to manipulate our perspective in some kind of way, not in a negative way. But that's what persuasion is. I want you to think differently about the situation. And if we are unclear about what the goal is for us, then we can, based on their persuasive endeavors, change our goal based on the way that they want us to, you know, in a way that serves them. So being clear on what a win is for us, going into the conversation is going to be very, very beneficial. So that's the benefit for you defensively. But offensively, you can recognize that if you're able to change the scoring system that somebody else uses by changing what they are looking for in quality and persuading them to change their perspective, what might be a situation where, as it stands right now, the thing that you are offering doesn't work for them without making any changes, you can make it work for them simply by changing their perspective without changing the offer or the substance in any way.

I love that way. You said that, changing the scoring system. And I think there's opportunities for just huge, I don't know, market mispriced assets or arbitrage or my fancy finance words are showing up. But I guess I'm thinking once again, when it comes to. I was thinking about great writers like, what do we call quality? And for me, it's like that they produce clear, outstanding writing that I don't have to really edit or mess with much. And it's good to go. And so I'm thinking a quality writer is one who can do that for me. But when it comes to what you have to pay for, when it comes to quality writing, it seems like there's quite the premium is paid for those who have a fancy degree in journalism or mass communications or English. It's like, oh, I have a doctorate in English, you know, from the Northwestern. Or I have a doctorate in journalism from Northwestern's Medill School of Journalism. And I've written for all of these magazines. Like, okay, there's going to be quite the premium on that writer. But I've seen in my experience that writer may or may not be able to deliver the quality in terms of the way I see it. So I've been struck as I've been on this quest at how folks who have crazy impressive bylines like, oh, I've been featured in Forbes and Al Jazeera and Ozzy and Vice and cnn, it's like, oh, wow, okay, this guy's really. That's most impressive. And then when I say, okay, well, could you do the sample for me? It just isn't very good. And others have maybe less experience. And the person I did hire had fewer years of experience, but just exceptional clarity and quality of writing. And so there you have it. There's an opportunity there because the person with all the amazing bylines and the years of experience in the doctorate wants a lot more money than the person with just a couple years experience, even though that person's writing is higher quality by my scoring system.

Brilliant. I think that's a perfect example, because the other scoring system would be, hey, pay the person a lot of money who has a lot of fancy degrees. And that just doesn't serve you. But since you were clear about that from the get go, you're in a position to navigate the conversation with confidence and you won't be distracted by the shiny objects that they put in your way.

Oh, yes. And although now he's talking about philosophy, this gets me thinking. There could be a different context in which that scoring system really, really works. Like, maybe I'm trying to open up a shop in which I am sort of billing out these amazing credentialed writers. Well, that might actually be an asset to help me get business. It's like, just look at the pedigree of these writers. They must be amazing, right? And that could be compelling to a buyer who's like, oh, yeah, that must be amazing. Yes, I'm right with you. So there's extra value in that context using that scoring system, but it didn't translate for how I was defining quality for my needs.

Exactly. Oh, man, that was good. That was very good. I know we are coming up on time. I could talk to you about this forever. But before we go, are there any parting thoughts you have on preparation?

Oh, sure thing. Well, I think that. I think at the end of the day, it just takes some time, you know, And I think often we feel like we have to go, go, go, go, go, and we just want it done fast. And I would just encourage you that, well, hey, if you know the value of your time, I Think you also know just how much you can afford to invest in optimizing something. And I think I've gone overboard with this in terms of, you know, spending 45 minutes reading reviews of clipboards on Amazon.com right. Make my selection okay. Probably don't need to do that. Just kind of go a little bit quicker in that realm. But other times I think it can make a massive difference in terms of boy, if you've done your research on the appropriate salary, well, I think that is worth more than two or three hours to get to the bottom of that in a great way. So you have full research there. So that's just my invitation. There is. I know there's a lot of rushing and urgency in life, but note, if you are going after a big opportunity, it is so worth your while to invest several hours in great research up front.

I love it. I love it. Yeah, these are really great points. And again, reminder to anybody out there who says, hey, you know what? I'm convinced I want to prepare more effectively for my next negotiation. Well, remember we have that resource for you, the AmericanNegotiationInstitute.com guide. You can get that ultimate negotiation guide so you can prepare for your upcoming business negotiation, salary negotiation, or difficult conversation. We have three guides in one on that link. Before you go, Pete, please give a shout out to your show and where they can get in touch with you.

Oh, thanks. Yes. Well, if you go to awesomeourjob.com or search sort of how to be it often autocompletes, which thank you guys. Wow. Itunes how to be awesome at your job will offer to autocomplete. That's cool. So yeah, wherever your podcast how to be awesome at your job is the name of the show, there's a yellow artwork you can jump out at you that way. Or Visit my website, awesomeourjob.com and you could email me that away to Pete awesomeyourjob.com and I hope that you are digging the research and the negotiation and the awesomeness.

Fantastic. And all of those resources that Pete talked about and a link to his website and the podcast will be in the description. Thanks again for coming on the show, my friend. I appreciate it.

Oh, thanks, Kwame. Good times.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

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