Conflict Management: Building Rapport and Staying Composed with Daniela De Gregorio

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. This show is produced by the American Negotiation Institute and with over 5 million downloads and listeners in over 180 countries, listeners just like you have made this the number one negotiation podcast in the world. Hi, my name is Kwame Christian and I am the founder and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Here at AI, we believe that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And we are passionate about providing you with the best content that will help you to make your difficult conversations easier, both at work and at home. Lastly, I want to remind you that we offer consulting and conduct trainings both virtually and in person all around the world. Our focus is in three main areas. First, negotiation and conflict resolution. Second, leadership. And lastly, diversity, equity and inclusion. Check the link in the description below to learn more about how we could work with you and your team. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Daniela, thank you for joining us today.

Nice to meet you and nice to see you. Happy to be here with you.

Yes, we are happy to have you, my friend. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

So I have a legal background from Italy where I practice as a family law attorney for more than 20 years and I became a certified mediator in 2011 and later a master degree negotiator. So I feel that ADR processes are my passion and I want to talk more about conflict, how to understand the issues behind conflicts, how to solve conflicts, and how to consider conflict as an opportunity to grow.

Fantastic. No, we are excited about that and I think your background is unique. Unique because you have a multicultural perspective, you have the legal background practicing as a family lawyer. And everybody knows family law is a very contentious aspect of the law. It's very heated emotions when families could be going separate ways. So there's a lot of emotion wrapped up in that. You're also that you have that mediation background, but you also did a little bit of hostage negotiation as well as at least hostage negotiation training. Can you tell the listeners about that too?

Yes, that was an experience not only in the classroom, but also on a practical side as a special training with the military forces in Italy. I could have the chance to be involved as the hostage negotiator there and I wasn't prepared at all, so was really realistic as an experience for me. Obviously the emotional level is very high and when you are there, you have just to start being focused on the fact that the hostages taker are people. And you have to understand and read behind the lines and their behaviors. You don't have a lot of time. You have to be quick and intuitive in those moments when you start creating rapport with the person like this and giving the idea that you can understand, you can hear what this person has to say. So establishing rapport, this is the most important part.

This is really insightful because when we think about nonviolent communication and just violence as a whole, a lot of times we go straight to the point where we will not tolerate violence. And I think that's a good idea, that that's we should not tolerate violence. Correct. But what you have really articulated well is the fact that yes, we will not tolerate the act of violence, but at the same time we have to recognize that the violent person is still a person and there's a reason behind what it is that they're doing in that moment. But for the person who is perhaps on the receiving end of the violence, or the person who is trying to stop the violent behavior, and we're talking about violence in terms of physical violence, or in most of the cases that we find ourselves in, it's emotional aggression, aggressive communication, those type of things. It's really difficult for us to maintain our composure in that situation when we're faced with that level of hostility. And so when you talk about building rapport under these circumstances, how can somebody build rapport when they're dealing with somebody who is acting violently?

First of all, I want to make a premise here that the conflict is part of the human nature. We can't live in an environment without conflicts. And the nice news is that conflict means that there's a relationship which is ruin, the damaged, compromised. And we are at the level of relationship here. When we are talking about violent persons, we are in a level of a sort of an alphabetism under the emotional aspect. So person who are not educated in the emotional level, at the emotional level, that can be a reason for becoming violent. They are not able to stay in a conflictual environment, which means still to have to deal with a relationship and to repair the relationship. We want to avoid that the conflict where the relationship is ruined and we have to repair, escalate to the level of the violence. And high level conflict are really difficult to deal with. Like saying you have a conflictual situation and conflict hits you like a wave. Sometimes big wave hits you and leave you astonished, without words, without strength, almost emptied. But if you start considering that the conflict, and that's the most important part, starting when it's possible to face the conflict at the level that you can avoid the escalation to the violent when it's most difficult to intervene. For this, you have to be prepared. You can't just be there and leave the things to improvisation. Sitting at the table of negotiation, metaphorically speaking, can be like seeing the head of the iceberg. The nature, the contest and the positions that people assume to defend their interest is there. It shows up. The violent person is screaming that wants something. But to be effective, we have to look down and check under the surface to know more and discover the unknown aspects, most of the times unclear also for people directly involved. So the conflict as a dynamic movement with a tendency to get worse if people involved blame each other and oppose their thoughts without the intent of seeing beyond the present moment and the possibilities to preserve the relationship, the assets, the reputation in the future and for the future. So the role of the negotiator or mediator is trying to move the conflict toward the path of the collaboration, offering new perspective and adding values to the element at stake. So what do you do? First of all, skills like observation, active listening, empathy, the art of asking questions are strongly required to negotiate. And for the case of the violent person, we should consider that the best questions to ask are the ones which lead the person to discover better what there can be behind the situation, behind what is seen there. Good and reasoned questions are useful for people to understand the causes of the conflict. The right questions also allow people in conflict to evaluate more clearly their own real interests and needs. When people answer to questions, they can often discover thoughts, values, ideas, opinions they didn't even know they had, or it is the occasion they just clarify to themselves. Possible alternative pursue. Sometimes asking the right questions is like playing chess or cards. Christian one move will determine the following 1 and will give the measure of the conflict and the possible levers to work on. If questions are essential and simple, they will help to better understand what is really at stake. Simple questions are often powerful. They are simple to elaborate and can reach the goal more effectively. So let's say that we have the hostage taker there or the violent person, and I give you some examples of general questions you can ask and they are really they can really be effective. What do you want? How do you see the situation? Which is the real problem here? What is holding you back from doing this or not doing this? So the ability to ask the right question, especially at the right moment, makes people feel heard and understood. And this has an enormous impact on their perceptions and thinking process. You see, it Brings people to access their thoughts in a more organized, articulate way. So they move away from an unstructured emotional reasoning towards the more analytical logic side of the brain. And so they can reach a more balanced, constructive and sometimes even creative decision making process. So I think this is a secret, for instance, to establish rapport. And I would like to give an optimistic way here to consider conflict as everybody is a negotiator without being aware of that. So better having the tools, the strategies and learn how to do that and the conflict that I want to show under a positive light as an opportunity to grow and change. It happens when the stakeholders are solicited to deepen the reality and discover the importance of the underlying relationship and the interest to keep it alive. So let's say that the conflict can be visualized as a dance where people involved try new steps of the dance. When you start a new dance, you don't know which are the steps you have to take. And metaphorically this can be seen as different ways to communicate, to explore, to discover solutions and common interest. Realizing situations where each party can be satisfied for long term, in fact, which is the successful negotiation, the long term satisfaction of the people involved. This is the success for the negotiation and for the negotiator.

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So let's say that through conflict management, for instance, and how you do that correct training and method, we become more strong and tough. We can change our perspective in coping the conflictual situation. So we become more creative, constructive, productive. We can move from position of contrast and opposition to another one of confrontation. For it's strongly recommended that the negotiator could be empathetic, good listener and very attentive observer. And always using a method is a good strategy. I have a personal method that I use.

Can you tell us a bit more about that personal method, your approach?

Yeah, that's like as I was saying before about diving, you always have to be sure that you have the right equipment. So the method is like the good equipment for the diver and AKA awareness, knowledge, ability acronym that I always put in front of me when I have to face a difficult conversation. Help people to negotiate. So it's to be focused and helps me to get prepared and stay focused. Awareness. And so this is the level where you ask yourself what you have to do, what you have to face. That means being prepared through studying, reading, searching, verifying the conditions to face the situation, Asking also yourself, is that a good moment to negotiate? Am I tired? Is it better if I postpone the meeting, the session of negotiation? How many people should be involved? These are simple questions. But to get aware of what you have to do. Am I the right person to solve the conflict? Do I need help? Maybe an expert? Am I enough prepared to sit around the table of negotiation? Have I the right information? Do I know enough about the other party at the negotiation table? Do I know which kind of reaction can come from the other party? There could be another way to deal the situation and this is the awareness, the knowledge level. And sometimes it has been told that knowledge is power. No, Christian, I think that knowledge means to be prepared and equipped in negotiation. It means knowing about the background of the counterpart. So for instance, you have the violent person in front of you. Just try to ask what's happened? What has the situation has pushed him or her that level. So which are the alternatives? As we know in negotiation, the best alternative to a negotiated agreement or the worst alternative to a negotiated agreement? Just recall this, the other party. And this is something that you have also to know if you have the chance before entering the negotiation. And other questions you can ask yourself. Do I know if other people must be involved? For instance, there's somebody very important for this person that can be of help and influence for letting change his bad mood. Do I know the point of view of my counterpart? Which is the real interest of the other party and the negotiation table? Do I know about the alternatives of the other parties? And then the acronym lead also to ability, awareness, knowledge, ability. And as I was saying, to recall yourself as a negotiator, that you need good communication skills, active listening, empathy, creativity, intuition, emotional intelligence, sense of humor and being optimistic for sure. And what can I tell you? I would like to give hope in facing conflicts in future and violent person in general. Disputes, diversities and conflicts won't be more scary and stressful if we will be able to think about the Loop of conflicts as movement of an imaginative dance. As a consequence of this thought, Christian, we can convince ourselves that the opponent in the conflict is not an enemy, but is an essential partner in the negotiation mediations process also to achieve our goals and satisfy our interests.

I think this is great. And Daniela, one of the things that you said that was really interesting to me was the fact that the violent person, the person who is expressing themselves in a violent, aggressive, offensive type of way is really demonstrating a lack of emotional intelligence. I think that's really interesting because it helps us to empathize with them a little bit more. I remember with our. One of our previous interviews, it was with Aaron Upchurch, we were talking about difficult conversations in the diversity, equity and inclusion space. One of the things that she said is that, yes, people are going to say things that are offensive, that are hurtful, demeaning, and all sorts of things. And so she's able to look at them with compassion because she realizes it is just so unfortunate for you, not just the rest of the world and the people that you're impacting negatively, but it's so unfortunate for you to live in a way that you are seeing the world in this way, that you're navigating the world in this way that can't even be an enjoyable experience for you. And so it's got to be sad and unfortunate that you're in that perspective. And so holding that person's dignity and seeing them as a person, like you said, for her was the key to empathizing and approaching it compassionately and asking questions. Because it's not just that she's compassionate and empathetic in that role, in that position. It's also that she's genuinely curious. What made you this way? How did you come to this point? What are you trying to accomplish with what you're saying? Right. And that's the curiosity that you're talking about.

Yes. And back to the experience I had in, as a hostage negotiation in the training, I am always saying that wasn't a real situation, was a training. But the fact that there I was asking the name of these people, which is your name. So starting from the basic identity of the person, I show interest. So being curious and showing interest then obviously is an interest that can be strategic. But the other person who is not used to have this kind of conversation, maybe it's just violence against violence, and you start giving this person a dignity and human dimension and it comes to another level. This is a very effective and strong way to de escalate the Violence. What has happened to you, which are the experience you have lived, what has pushed you to that level and to this level. Can we have another way to look at the situation? And so, as I was saying, always having the method. And you prepare yourself to also ask the right questions.

Right?

This is so powerful, Christian. The right questions at the right moment. For instance, if you see a person very upset and you ask why, sometimes the why is just explosive and it's better going around and say, how do you see the situation? Yeah, how can we get out of this and put the we instead of you? We is such a powerful word to use.

Yes, I love that tip. That's really powerful because the two things here, when you say why, it can sound accusatory, it sounds judgmental, and they can take it the wrong way, which can actually increase the level of violent communication that they're using because now they're even more triggered. And then also using that collaborative language. It's not just enough to say, I want to be collaborative, I want to work with you, though. Those are good things to say also in the way that you're, you're actually phrasing your questions and what it is that you're saying, you're actually phrasing it collaboratively. We are working together in this. How can we solve this problem? How can we get past this and those type of things? I think that's very, very, very helpful. And going back to what you were talking about with regard to preparation, and I love the term that you used, you said this isn't improvisation. Right. We're not going in there and freestyling and hoping for the best, coming up with really high level, effective, insightful con questions. That's hard to do off the fly and it's hard to do, especially if you're dealing with somebody who is approaching you with hostility because you feel that pressure. And that pressure makes it more difficult for you to think clearly in the moment.

Correct.

So it's so important to take that time to prepare. And so, listeners, if you haven't heard me say this enough, remember, if you go to our website, americannegotiationinstitute.comguide G U I D E, and we'll put a link in the description. Of course, you can get access to all of our free negotiation guides and conflict resolution, and is one of those guides and one of the most important parts there is actually writing out the questions that you think you might ask during the conversation. And so, Daniela, in your experience, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you've seen people make in these types of high stakes conversations.

Well, I can tell you the lack of preparation and for sure when you have a conflictual situation, could be at the level of collaborative conflict, conflict situation. But people are ready to collaborate or to the high level conflict. It's like having a thousand pieces puzzle already set up and you just see the outcome there without considering how many pieces have been put in place. How long did it take to set up the puzzle? So you have to deconstruct, dematerialize this puzzle. Thousand pieces. How do you do? You have to have info and so see my method, the knowledge before sitting around the table of the negotiation. You have to be aware what you are dealing with. You have to know and you have to use all the abilities and skills you can have. So the mistake is not having a method, not being prepared.

Absolutely. No, you are absolutely right and I appreciate this. This was really helpful. And before you go, can you tell the listeners again about you and how they can get in touch with you?

Well, I have an email, I have a cell phone. They can be in touch with me in those ways. I don't know if I can give here or they can look at the podcast and find the way to ask about myself. I come from Italy. I had experience with cross culture realities and I can approach easily. I speak four languages and I can approach people from different cultures trying to be as much as empathetic I can to help them to solve conflicts.

Fantastic. Oh, and before you go, one last thing. Can you give the listeners one quick tip that they can use today to become a better negotiator?

Have a training, good training. And that is the way to become good negotiator. Everyone is a negotiator, all of us. But we have to know how to proceed.

Perfect. I love this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Daniela. This was fantastic. And listeners will also put Daniela's LinkedIn profile in the link as well so you can connect with her there. She has some really, really great content and that's how I know.

Yes, you can say Daniela De Gregorio so they can find me through LinkedIn for sure.

Fantastic. All right, my friend, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

Thank you for the opportunity, Christian. I really appreciate that time.

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