Creating Persuasive Personal Brand With Justin Nguyen

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for spending time with us today. It's listeners like you in 181 different countries that have made Negotiate Anything the most popular negotiation and conflict resolution podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, professor, and the director of the American Negotiation Institute. Before we get started, I have two quick questions for you. Is negotiation a critical part of what you do? Do you need to resolve conflict and persuade at work? If you answered yes to both of those questions, visit our website to learn more about our negotiation workshops. We've traveled the country working with professionals just like you, and we'd love to have the opportunity to work with you, too. Check out the link in the description to learn more. Justin, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you for having me on, man. I'm super excited for this.

Yeah, me too. So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Yeah. So on. On the LinkedIn grind. That's basically what I've been calling, calling it for the past, I want to say, two or three years. I started off when I was in college and I've been creating content on the platform for probably three years now. And now my content is seen over 200,000 times every single month. So it's been incredible in terms of what it's opened for, like doors for my career, but it's also a life that I never would have dreamed of at the same time. So it's been, it's been incredible what the past three years have been.

That's fantastic. And so now you're even at a point where you're consulting with professionals, helping them to establish themselves online, primarily using LinkedIn, is that right?

Yeah, exactly. All of my LinkedIn content is geared towards higher ed and the student journey and really to help college students out basically with our tips and tricks. But. But what I've realized is a lot of companies, they don't utilize LinkedIn in the proper way, whether it's on their sales team or whether it's individually of trying to use LinkedIn to find a job. So I've been creating, I've been starting this consultancy on the side of helping out companies and helping out their content strategy and everything like that.

That's great. Yeah. And I'm excited for this because this is an episode that's going to be a little bit different from our usual skills heavy episodes because I think it's really important for us to find a way to create a persuasive personal brand. And LinkedIn give you a fantastic opportunity to do that. And so with this episode, what we're going to do is we're going to focus on the top five tips that you have for creating this personal brand on LinkedIn. And so let's just start off with the first one. And I guess it's not really a tip, but more of a point just kind of hammering home why it's so important to have a presence on LinkedIn.

Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not going to bore you with any crazy statistics or anything like that, but I think the one thing that you need to know is, I believe on LinkedIn, there's over 650 million professionals on the platform. So it's probably that one platform where people actually go to either do business, learn about business, and they're not necessarily distracted by anything else. If you're on Instagram, then there's a whole bunch of different things that you can see on Instagram, whether it's esports, Instagram models, whatever that may be. If you're on Facebook, that's mainly for family now. And then Twitter is a lot of new stuff if you curate it the right way. But LinkedIn has sort of had this special place of always being that professional platform that individuals go to, and they have that sort of stereotype of, I'm going here for legit content. Now, why is that important as well, in terms of from a personal branding perspective? Think about it this way. When you're going to sell someone something, or if you're applying to a job and someone sees your name, the first thing that they're probably going to do is Google your name and just see what pops up, just to see if there's any red flags. And typically the first thing that pops UP is your LinkedIn. If you don't have a website under your name or anything like that. And the reason that LinkedIn pops up so high is because of the domain authority that LinkedIn has. So if your LinkedIn game isn't on point and that first link on Google, they click on it and they see the blue background or an unfinished LinkedIn page, then they might already start off with a bad stereotype in the back of their head of, does this person actually take their job serious? Do they take themselves seriously, et cetera. So you basically just want to have your LinkedIn as that really good first impression. And that's why I think it's super important to have that profile set up again, whether you're looking to sell something or find that new job.

Absolutely. And I think about it in terms of negotiation too, because for people who know the show, I am very, very focused on preparation. We have to prepare. We have to prepare. I say it all the time. That's why I always talk about the free negotiation guides. Oh, this will be a good time to talk about the free negotiation guides. So if you go to americannegotiationinstitute.com guide, you can get access to over 15 different negotiation guides to help you prepare for your next negotiation. Salary negotiation, car negotiation, just general business negotiation, Introverts guide to negotiation. We all have it there. But one of the things that I talk about there is the importance of taking the time and of doing and do your research to do your research on the person with whom you're negotiating. What are they about? What do they like, what don't they like? What are their histories? When we talk about job histories, we can look at their profile and see what their interests are in terms of where they spending their time when it comes to pro bono activities and volunteer work. So it's just a treasure trove of information. And I feel like if you don't have a strong LinkedIn presence, you're missing out on an opportunity to shape the narrative about who you are in your career.

Yeah, exactly. Especially from the professional perspective of things. Right. That's why I think it's super interesting when you look at all the other social media, it's more for casual play for the most part. Whereas with LinkedIn everyone knows when they're going there. It's usually to find a job or you're trying to sell something in that B2B space. It's more from that professional atmosphere. So again, for your space, especially in sales, it's super important to have a good looking personal brand on that platform.

Absolutely. And just a quick thing too, if you are out there and you have LinkedIn, make sure you connect with me or Justin too. All of us here, my promise, I'm going to see how long I can keep this going. But my promise is that everybody who connects with me gets a personal message. I don't know when it'll happen, but eventually it comes. So yeah, connect, that's, it's a platform that I've really started to use very heavily in the last couple of years. And Justin, you're absolutely right. I think it's, it's a great way to connect but also tell your story to the marketplace. And one of the things that you mentioned, transitioning into the second point That I think is really interesting is you want to try to turn your profile or turn you change your profile from a resume to a landing page. So what do you mean by that?

Yeah, so what I mean by this is, is most people stereotype with LinkedIn is that it is a resume. It's you're only really going there to find a job. And yes, that is true for a certain percentage of LinkedIn users. But the other percentage of LinkedIn users have a profile. They're in their business, they're in their job, and they're pretty content with where they're working. So what you want to turn your profile into is that landing page. Because when someone lands on your profile, if you're not looking for a job, then why are they there? And if you're selling a product, that's a perfect place to put your product benefits, your pricing, or a call to action of whether it's to sign up for a newsletter, reach out to you on LinkedIn, whatever that may be. So the reason that I tell people to change this is because if, let's say I'm looking for a copier, right? I want to go buy a copier and I land on someone's profile who says that they're a copier salesperson, right? I'm looking at their summary, but then their summary is talking about their accomplishments and it's more of a resume. I'm like, well, I don't really understand what you're selling me and I'm just going to kind of move off of it and I'm probably never going to reach out to you. Whereas if you take that time to incorporate your story as well as your product benefits and anything like that, there's a chance that that person could reach out to you. And that's a warm lead right there. So it's all about, like you said before, being prepared for who knows what's going to happen.

That's really interesting. So if, for example, I think this was a great example, using sales as an example, you're selling a product, but all the time as professionals, to a certain extent, we're selling ourselves. And so when it comes to creating that narrative, what are some other things that we need to make sure that we have on our profile to make sure that we're telling the story the right way?

Yeah, I think the first thing was a tip that I shared with you in a call earlier this week where you, you were completely blown away, which is the people also viewed section on your profile. So most people don't realize that this is a section on their profile. And what ends up happening is that you can essentially be competing against your peers if you don't realize this. And so what I mean is, if you go to let's go pick a random person's LinkedIn profile, hopefully that person has the Profile Also Viewed section turned on. But if you're scrolling down the right hand side, you'll see a section called People also Viewed. So imagine yourself as a recruiter or if you're looking to buy a product or service, typically what LinkedIn will populate the section with is your either competitors if you're trying to sell something, or people with a similar background with you if you're looking for a job. So if I'm a recruiter and I come to your page and I'm scrolling down and someone else has a better profile picture or a better headliner than you, I might click off of your profile and leave your page and go to theirs. And I'm never going to think about you ever again. So just by getting rid of that little section right there can eliminate a bunch of competition.

Yeah, that was really disturbing when you told me that one, but it's so helpful and I think it's just, just another great example of how something so small, because it was a, it was a quick fix, you just go in, click a button and then it's gone. But if you didn't know about it, then there was no reason for you to take that step. So yeah, I appreciate that tip personally and I think that'll be helpful for a lot of folks in the audience. This is great. Does your company invest in professional development training? If you believe that your team would benefit from a negotiation workshop, all you need to do is go to our website, fill out the workshop request form, and then we'll set up a time to chat. These workshops are completely customizable and we've done them all around the country. Negotiation and conflict resolution skills are beneficial across all programs, professions, but they're especially useful in procurement, purchasing, sales, sourcing and contract management. Our calendar is filling up quickly and we even have some workshops scheduled for next year if you think you might want one. I'd suggest reaching out soon so you don't miss out. Check out the link in the description to learn more. And now back to the show. And so when it comes to telling that story, creating that landing page, what other things should we consider? What other things do we need to make sure that we have on the page?

Yeah, I think something that you can play around with is your Background photo. Now some companies have a standard background photo that you'll have to use just because of company branding. But if your company doesn't, you have some leeway to play around with it. Most people will keep it blank with a traditional just LinkedIn one that they self populate. But I want you to take a step back and see what can you do to showcase a your personal brand, but also some product benefits or either a little bit on your personality side of things. So for instance, for me, my background banner is a picture of me speaking because I want to sort of optimize my profile for public speaking when it was kind of a thing, not necessarily right now, but also being an entrepreneur. So that's why I have that photo of me speaking. And then on top of the photo there's some word like some keywords of speaker, one entrepreneur and podcaster I believe. So when someone lands on my profile, they know exactly what I can do for them essentially. Now after the visualize or like the visual aspect and making your profile look aesthetically pleasing, I think the second thing that most people miss on their profile is really utilizing their headline. So right here what most people will do is usually just put their job title, which is important. You want to have that there. But, but if you again looking to sell something or even if you're looking for a job, what you want to do is front load your headline with how you can help someone out. So if you're helping companies save X amount of revenue through this new product that you have, that's what you want to put there so that when you're commenting and engaging on people's content, people see that and they can get interested and go to your page. Now if you're looking for a job, you can sneakily do this by still having your company position on the back end of your headline. So but on the front end, let's say you're in marketing, you could say increasing company email Open rates by 35% using email marketing tactics. So now you have a little bit of SEO, you've got a little bit of value and then if you're reaching out to recruiters, they know exactly how you can help out their company. So this is that little first section is what a lot of people forget on their headline. And it's super important in terms of just getting people's attention so that you can draw them to your landing page.

Wow, this is great. And one of the things that I think about a lot of times with negotiation and persuasion is the concept of authority. And so when you think about the book by Robert Cialdini, influence, he talked about authority being one of those triggers that people utilize when making a decision of whether or not they're going to follow somebody. And it makes you a lot more persuasive when people recognize you as an authority in your field. And so when, when it comes to positioning yourself as a thought leader in your field, whatever it might be, whether you're an entrepreneur or you work within a company and people might have to have difficult conversations with you or negotiations with you, what are some things that we need to make sure that we are doing with our profile to make sure that we are demonstrating that we have authority in our field?

Definitely. So if you're someone who is a thought leader in your space and you've got articles written about you, or you have videos of you speaking at conferences, or you've landed big deals that are public that you can publish onto Your profile, your LinkedIn page is perfect for this because you can link it. And that's something that's very different than, let's say, a resume or a regular piece of paper. So you can physically link things to your LinkedIn page, whether it's your personal website, YouTube videos, whatever that may be, and then they'll pop up a thumbnail and if you can make that thumbnail very eye catching, that'll cause other people to click on it. So what I like to tell people is make sure that that thumbnail is bright, something that grabs someone's attention so that while they're scrolling through the white newsfeed of their LinkedIn page, it pops out to them and they want to click on it.

Makes sense. This is great. I'm taking a lot of mental notes for myself because there are a lot of changes I need to make. I thought I was doing okay, but thank you for this, this is really helpful. And so let's move on to the third point, which is how to properly connect with an individual on LinkedIn. So what are some things we have to keep here?

Yeah, I think the biggest mistake that people do here is they just click the connect button and they leave it at that. And especially on mobile, that's incredibly easy to do. But this is sort of the last thing that you want to do because especially, let's say you're trying to connect with me, right? I'm not necessarily Bill Gates or anyone huge like that, but I still get about anywhere between 20 or like, yeah, 20 to 30 connection requests every single day. So if you're not personalizing that invite, I'M most likely just going to cancel or like click ignore. And if you continue to get ignores, then LinkedIn will like sort of derank your profile and they'll consider you spam. So the way that you can up that sort of acceptance rate is by adding a personalized note. And the way that I like to do that is I try to go to people's profiles, find one or two connection points. Typically you can find those on anyone who has a semi completed profile, whether it's the same school that you've gone to, same companies that you may have worked with or at same time, sort of things like that. And then put that in that personalized note when you're connecting with them so that they know that you spent a little bit of time researching them so that they can feel like, oh, this person's not just going to spam me or this person's not just going to try to sell me on something. That's how you can break that initial ice, so to say with them.

And that makes a lot of sense. And then I think this ties in really well with the point that you just made previously, which is having a profile that makes you look legit. Because if somebody that has no pictures is asking me to be a connection, I'm like, I don't know who you are.

Right?

This makes a lot of sense. So I think that's a really, really great point. And now when it comes to content creation, let's say if you, let's say if you don't have a business, I think it might be obvious for somebody who has a business, but if you don't have a business, you work for a company, why is it still important to make to create content?

So it's super important to create content to bring back to your point of becoming a thought leader. Now it might not be your goal to become Bill Gates or get paid for speaking engagements or anything like that, but when it comes to negotiation, this is when it can become very relevant. Because let's say you're trying to negotiate a higher salary and you're in marketing or something like that, right? You want to create content around marketing for your company and saying why the marketing plan that you implemented did so well and if you create that piece of content and it gets, let's say 10 or 15 likes or something like that, you can then show that to your employer and say, hey, I created this marketing plan, it got this sort of social proof and I sent it out to recruiters, et cetera, and they loved it as well. Now, if you're coming from a place of, let's say, you're looking for a job, that's when it becomes very important because this is how you can showcase your skillset that you actually have. Now, the reason I say that is because, again, coming from a college perspective, I graduated last year or 2018, so like a year and a half ago. The biggest problem that recruiters have is that people lie on their resume. Whether you're coming out of college or whether you're, you're 10, 20 years into your profession, it's still a problem. And a way to counteract that is to show that you actually have those skills. Anyone can write that they have done an Excel worksheet or they're proficient in Microsoft Excel, which people love to put on their resume. But. But who the heck knows from the recruiter standpoint if you can actually do that? Now, if you create a screen share of you actually videoing you doing a pivot table, and you're doing a financial analysis on the recent earnings for Nike, and you take that video, you put it on LinkedIn and then you send it to the recruiter that's hiring for an investment banking position or an accounting position, whatever that may be, you've just overcome that barrier of, oh, this person actually isn't lying. They know what they can do. So that's why it's extremely important to use content, because it's not necessarily about the views. Right. If you're trying to become a thought leader, then that might be important. But if you're not, it's not about the views, it's about who's looking at it. And you can strategically send that video or that written post, whatever that may be, out to the people that need to see it, of the recruiters, the hiring managers, the people's jobs that you want to work with. Then those people become your champions. And that's how you get your foot in the door.

Man, that's great. And, you know, this has just been incredibly, you know, revealing to me because I thought I used, I thought I knew how to use Excel. You talked about a pivot table. Like, what is that? This is really great. Yeah. So essentially it's letting the world know that you are in fact competent in what you're doing. And this is, this is a great shout out again to the book influenced by Cialdini. Another one of the principles of persuasion is social proof. And when people are supporting what you're doing, endorsing your idea or saying, hey, that was a really great point, then you can use that as social proof and bring it to whoever it is that you're talking to. I think this is great with, even within companies too, with those internal negotiations that we're having that are so, so important. So we might have an idea that seems a little outside of the box or maybe two way out there. But you can say, listen, a lot of people supported it. That's what made me come bring it to. I think that positions you really, really well for your negotiations.

Exactly. Like, it's funny, I read this story now. This person used Reddit, not necessarily LinkedIn, but sort of the same concept of social proof. So there's this kid, he was just sitting in his bed, basically, and he wanted to create something that would make a lot of noise. And one of his idols was Kanye West. So he was like, how can I create something to get Kanye West's attention? So what he wanted to do is to get social proof. So he created a. He said that he was going to create a website that was dating for only Kanye west fans, and he took it. So he took that to Reddit and created a post about it. And it got like 700 upvotes or something crazy like that. Then he took a screenshot of that and sent that out to news reporters, a whole bunch of news reporters, and he got numerous articles written about it as social proof. Then he went to create his actual app. So that's exactly how you can sort of imagine that for like your own company of like, you have an idea, obviously, like proprietary knowledge don't necessarily say everything about your idea, but you can test it out in the market of putting out a message on your LinkedIn page. And who knows, maybe it goes viral and gets 250 likes and 20,000 views or something like that. You can then bring that back to your boss and say, hey, here's what I put out. It seems to be resonating with a bunch of people. How can we execute on this? And no one's going to deny social proof.

That's so great. That's so great. Okay, so today is July 20th, so let's play a little game here. So July 21st in the morning, I'm going to post something and it's going to be intentionally a little bit controversial, and we'll see how much social proof it's going to get. And then we'll use this as an opportunity to kind of. You can go back in time and see if it works, and we'll see if it could go to someplace else. Because I think that. I think It's a really, really great idea and so many different angles for it to internal negotiation, external negotiations. And the idea for me is I'm somebody who, I've coached people on how to negotiate for their salary tons of times. So that's one of the free guides that people can get on salary negotiation. But what I'm recognizing is that I feel as though, especially with bigger companies, leaving it up to the people to advocate for themselves oftentimes leads to inequities because women and minorities we've seen in studies are less likely to overtly request a salary increase. They're going to wait until they feel like they've earned it. And so what I'm suggesting is maybe what we should do is just have everybody start from the same place and work their way up. I think a lot of law firms work that way, a lockstep type of approach. See what type of support there is in the marketplace. I'm sure with all my negotiation buddies out there, they'll be like, kwame, no, that's our job to help people. But it'll be interesting because that, that's just something that I've been an idea, theoretically, I've been playing around with. But I think that, Justin, you've given me a great idea. I'll just. Every, every crazy idea I have, I'm going to test it on LinkedIn and see if people like it.

Exactly.

Really cool.

And I think you've got nothing to lose, right? If you put something out and it doesn't go where you thought that it was going to go, maybe that's just saved you a bunch of money before you tried something out. And then if you're looking at it from a salary perspective, negotiation, a lot of that comes down to confidence. And you can gain your confidence by getting started with creating content online. And the beauty of LinkedIn is that you. There are less trolls on this platform, very minimal trolls, if you're comparing it to Twitter, Instagram or Reddit especially. And the reason for that is because there's an actual name associated with the profile. And most people that have LinkedIn, those LinkedIn profiles are back to their business page. And nobody wants to troll someone when it can get traced back to them, so to say. So that's why it's very content friendly of a platform. Like, yes, you might put out something and it might not necessarily do great in terms of views or likes or comments or anything, but very. I haven't seen many times of people commenting back saying, oh my God, this is so bad. You should get off the platform, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think maybe at this point, I probably posted over probably nearly 500 plus times on the platform. It's maybe happened two or three times. So that's why, from a confidence building standpoint, it's great, because who knows, you start to build that momentum, just like me, and you get to a point where you're getting a decent amount of views, your confidence starts to gain in the real world of being able to ask your boss for a raise, being able to negotiate those salaries, whatever that may be. And that's an incredible skill to kind of gain throughout your career.

This is fantastic. And just a little negotiation note here. Remember, listeners, the name of the podcast is Negotiate Anything. And the thing that I really appreciate about you, Justin, here is that what you're doing is you're showing us a really, really unique way to position ourselves in negotiation. Because most people would just focus on the conversation. You're saying, no, no, no. We have to expand our view because this is part of the conversation, whether we want it to be or not, first of all. And then we could strategically calibrate the impact of our LinkedIn profile and our LinkedIn activities for more negotiation success. I think this is great.

No, I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, whenever I try to do these things, I sort of hate the people that love to talk high, high level about things and they don't give you real tactical advice. So my goal, whenever I come onto a podcast or give a talk, whatever it is, I want to give real examples that people can follow tomorrow. Right. July 21st, you go out there and you do something, that's what I want you to be able to do with the content that I provide, Whether it's on LinkedIn or podcasting, whatever that looks like.

Absolutely. Well, we're not done with you yet. I just wanted to give you that note before I forgot. And I think the last one might be the most important, especially for people in the sales world, on how to move the conversation from LinkedIn to email. And so first, before you actually answer that, can you tell us why transitioning to email is so critical?

Yeah, of course. So anyone that's listening to this podcast, right. You might have a LinkedIn profile, but you might not be as active as you are on that profile compared to your email or even your cell phone. So the reason that you want to move the conversation from LinkedIn to email or phone call, if you can get them to commit to a phone call, is that you want to be able to be on a platform that they're actively checking regularly. So I've had conversations on LinkedIn before I realized this where I would pretty in depth conversations with people and then it would just get lost and I would never hear back from them and then I would forget about them and then things like I would not be in contact with them for like another year or a year and a half and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I forgot about this. Whereas if I moved it to email or a phone call and I had their phone number saved, it would be able, it would be a lot better for me to like reach out to them and be easier for me to set up reminders and everything like that. So in terms of why that's important, that's why, because you want to be able to move them onto a platform that they are more actively checking to continue that conversation into the future. Now, in terms of how you can do that when you're coming from a job perspective, you want to be able to provide them value upfront and then ask one specific question. So a lot of times when I get connected with someone, they'll ask me a very broad question of, hey, can you tell me about your thoughts on higher education or college? Yes, that's a good sort of starting point. But if you ask me a specific question of hey, what are your thoughts about the situation that's happening with the international students right now in the United States, that gives me something to sort of draw information on. And I remember you. I'm more likely to give you a more specific answer as well as be more thoughtful in my answer so that I remember you. And then when you hit me back up and you asked me, hey, would you be open to moving this conversation to email so that this message doesn't get lost in LinkedIn, I'd be way more happy to, because we've had a little bit of a conversation. It might have even just been one or two messages back and forth. But I have seen that you're legit and you're not necessarily trying to sell me on something just yet. You want to know me a little bit, right? So I think that's the most important thing is when you're reaching out to someone and you have that chance to ask them a question, don't make it broad, make it as specific as possible, whether it's about their career, something that they're doing, anything along those lines, because that's what's going to be able, like that's what's going to enable you to be remembered in Their brain. And that's what you want.

Absolutely. This, that's a really, really great point. Really great point. Because I've had a ton of conversations that have just stalled because the people don't get back to me fast enough. You know what? Most likely it's me not getting fast enough, I have to admit, because I get it. I get so many because like I said, I try to respond to everybody. So, I mean, it's hundreds in the inbox, so I slowly comb through it. But it makes a lot of sense. Transitioning to email is a lot, puts you in a better position for success when it comes to continuing the conversation and being consistent in that way. I think that's really, really smart.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'll speak as well, right? The LinkedIn, LinkedIn messaging platform is terrible just because of the way that it's set up. It's so hard to search things, it's so hard to keep track of what conversations are where. So again, that's why you want to be able to move it to email, so that people can maybe put you in a folder or put a reminder to message you back or things like. And that's why it's super important because it just allows you to have a chance, a better chance of continuing to get responses compared to LinkedIn.

Absolutely. This is great. Well, Justin, thank you so much for this. I appreciate it. Before you go, you have to let people know how to get in touch with you in addition to LinkedIn, of course, and about your podcast.

Yeah, so I run my own podcast called Declassified College. And it's very, it's short form, bite sized content. So most of our episodes are five to 15 minutes long. So if you're in the college space and you want to learn these sort of cheat codes that I learned when I was in college, feel free to check that out. Declassified College on any podcasting platform that you listen to. And then when it comes to LinkedIn, LinkedIn is my most active platform. So reach out to me on LinkedIn, let me know that this podcast sent you in a personalized invite. If you're not personalized that invite, I probably won't accept it. I'm just being honest just because it just doesn't pop out to me. And then the last thing that I would love to be able to share on this is I do have my own LinkedIn course. So for those of you that are just kind of getting started on LinkedIn and want to figure out what you can do in a very quick one hour course, you can check it out on my website. Get your grindup.com LinkedIn course. And that's G E T C H O G R I N D U p dot com. So check that out. Let me know what you think.

Fantastic. And we will put links in the description of this episode. Justin, thank you so much for coming on the show. So excited to have you.

No, thank you. It was a pleasure.

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