Effective Sales Conversations: NLP Techniques from Nikki Rausch

Hey, everyone, it's Kwame Christian, host of Negotiate Anything, asking you to please do not skip forward because this is not a commercial. Ok, I've got something for you. So we want to hear from you, our incredible listeners, because your feedback is super helpful in making the show even better. We've created a quick and fun forum to get to know you, and this is your chance to make the show even closer to what you love. And here's the best part. If you fill out the form before December 31, 2024, you'll be entered into a raffle to win a signed Copy My book delivered straight to your door. It only takes a few minutes, and your input will help to shape the future of Negotiate Anything. Find the form in the description of this episode and we'll announce the winner in January. Who knows, it might be you. Thanks for helping us to make the show even better and even more connected to you. Good luck in the raffle. Hey, I'm Kwame Christian, and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world, where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process. Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts. We delve into negotiation, conflict resolution, and leadership skills that are crucial in both business and in life. Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team, or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed. Our conversations are real, relatable, and most importantly, rooted in practicality. So if you're ready to transform your conversations and elevate your negotiation skills, join me on Negotiate Anything. Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation. Nikki, thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to spend this time with you.

Yes, likewise, my friend. So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Okay, so I'm a sales coach and trainer and I specialize in the conversation of sales. I primarily work with women and teach them how to have more strategic sales conversations. And yeah, so that's me. My company is sales maven, and if.

I recall correctly, you may have written a couple of books and you might have a podcast, too.

Yes, I have. I've written three books. My. My latest book, which was written a few years back, is called the Selling Staircase. So it's all about this, my framework for a sales conversation. So I break it down into A five step process. The selling staircase is a comprehensive. Like how do you walk somebody through a sales conversation and do it strategically while building a ton of rapport, which I feel like is something you talk about a lot. And so yeah, that's the, that's the latest book. And then my second book is called Buying Signals. How to recognize and act on the Buying Signals that people give. And the first book was something I was sharing this with you before we hit record is that I wrote it thinking nobody would read it. It was just for me to see if I could write a book and. But it's. I am proud of it. It's called Six Word Lessons on Influencing with Grace and it's 100 tips around neuro linguistic programming spec specifically.

Oh, very, very cool. And that, that is a perfect segue into what we're going to talk about today, which is Neuro Linguistic programming, also known as nlp. And I was telling Nikki that we haven't had a podcast episode on NLP which I think is wild. So my bad listeners, my, my fault. But I, we are rectifying that today with Nikki. So let's just get started with a definition. What is nlp?

So the Neuro part of the N is the way we process information in our brains. The linguistics, the for the L, right is the way that you speak to others, the way that others speak to you and also any internal dialogue that you've got going on. And the P is for programming and that is about habits and patterns. So the Neuro linguistic programming can. It's been used, it's used around the world in a lot of different contexts and for a lot of different reasons. But I really break it down is it's the study of communication and how I bring it into my work. I will wrap this around my all time favorite quote which is blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape. And I think when you learn nlp, it teaches you how to add flexibility to your style, your behavior, to pay attention to the other person you're in conversation with to put them at ease so that they're more inclined to listen in the conversation. Like listen to what you have to say, stay engaged in the conversation. And the third thing is be more revealing about what's important to them and what, like what they're thinking about.

This is great. And listeners, you can really clearly see how this could be beneficial in our difficult conversations that we're having with other people and just communication in general. And before we get into like the deeper levels of NLP I want to address some of the skeptics out here who might have been introduced to it in the past because I know that I've ran into some people when I've brought up nlp. Some of them kind of brush it aside and say, oh no, that's, that's silly. It's. It's pseudoscience, those type of things. But the way that you described it is very, very simple. Neuro, the way that the brain processes information, linguistic, how we speak to others and how we speak to ourselves and then programming habits and pat, that's all very simple. Right. And there's nothing crazy about it. So I want to just address that little thing before we get into the. What NLP really is.

Yeah, there's a lot of misconception out there. You know, with anything, psychology, any, any kind of technique that you learn, you can certainly use it in a manipulative way. You can also use it to be beneficial. Right. So it's the yin and yang. It's the, the good and the bad. I've had people say to me when I've been in a presentation. I remember one time having a client, I was speaking at this large company. They hired me as their sales trainer. And I went in and you know, the one of the guys in the room was like, oh, you have this background in nlp. Like that's mind manipulation, you know, started by the military. Which of course is not true. But that's, you know, there are some misconceptions around it. And I think, you know, do your research. But also, if you're open to, to learning how to be a better communicator, you will find that the techniques that are taught in neuro linguistic programming can be highly impactful. You know, I started studying NLP when I was working for a really large organization as a sales, like a regional sales manager. And I started studying it with this idea that, oh, it will make me better at sales. Like, it'll improve my confidence around Sal. It certainly helped me in all of my sales conversations. But ultimately what it did is it taught me how to be a better communicator, which then improved all the relationships in my life. Because instead of showing up and being like, you know, this is me, take it or leave it. Go kick rocks if you don't like the way I speak or the way that I show up. I was more flexible in the way that I would show up in a conversation. I would pay attention to what the other person's style is, how they communicated, and I'd be willing to make some adjustments to, to allow the conversation to flow better. So that's, that's what I would say to the skeptic is. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being a skeptic. Be, you know, please do for many reasons in life. And if you're willing to dig a little deeper and see what's possible for you, you may find that it will absolutely change the game in the way that you communicate.

I love it. Couldn't agree more. And I, I just got an email from the skeptic who said, I am convinced to Nikki. Thank you. So how do I get started on this journey? So let's talk about it. So how do we start with nlp? Where, where should we begin?

Well, I would say, you know, we were just talking about like those, those of us who write books, right? There's some amazing, amazing books out there now. I started studying NLP. It's been, I think about 20 years now. And the textbook that we used, it wasn't really, it's not really a textbook, but it feels like a textbook to read it. It was part of our practitioner level course. It was the NLP for Dummies book. Do you remember when that like all the Dummies books were super popular? It reads like a textbook. It's a, you know, pretty intensive deep dive. But ultimately my favorite book to get people started on NLP is I think it's called. Oh gosh, I think it's called the really Good Cartoon Book of nlp. So it's got some like, illustrations in it. It's very simple. It's sold on Amazon. I can't even tell you the author's name. So I apologize to the author for not thinking of what his name is off the top of my head. But it's a great little, like, it's like little snippets of nlp and then you can look at it and go, okay, am I interested in digging deeper around this? You know, you can find the, the encyclopedia of NLP online and you can look, it breaks down different processes and you know, that's, that's for the scientific brain, the person who wants the like, super deep dive. But I like the really good cartoon book of NLP because I like the like, give me the basics so I can get started.

Nice. And listeners, you see all my friends, they're so, they're so humble. But we will be only linking to one book on nlp, my friend, and that will be yours. Okay, so we appreciate those other resources, but this is the. Thank you yeah, no worries, no worries. And one of the things you mentioned that I thought was really powerful and it really speaks to the ethos of this podcast as well, is that you came into this trying to learn NLP in order to become better at sales. There was a transactional type of mindset that you had into it, and I think that's what a lot of people think about when they come to negotiation. So they stumble upon this podcast. A lot of them come because they searched salary negotiations or how to deal with difficult people or those type of things. And then they started to realize, wait a second, there's a bit more here. And the definition that we use on the podcast is for negotiation is anytime you're in a conversation and somebody wants something, we want you to think about it as a negotiation. And with you, what you realize is you said, hey, nlp, I'm going to use this for sales. And then you started using it in other elements of your life. And so let's start with some foundational skills of nlp. When you are in a conversation, what are some elements of NLP that you typically use? Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate, and succeed.

One of the easiest ones that is incredibly powerful is I pay attention to the rate of speech of the other person because I don't know if you, when you think about your own rate of speech, like if we put a spectrum in front of you and we said, you know, on a scale of, you know, 1 to 10, 10, being like a super fast talker, somebody who like has a thought, it comes right out. They don't even like, have to take a breath between sentences. Like, that's somebody who talks really fast, right? And you find yourself in a conversation with somebody who speaks a little slower, they take their. It's very difficult for those two people to stay in a long conversation. One, because the person who speaks a little slower, it's hard for them to process and even get a word in in the Conversation for the person who speaks really fast. The person who speaks really fast is looking at the person who speaks really slow and going like, oh, my gosh, speed it up, man. I can't take this. Right? And so whatever your style is, if you're willing to adjust to the other person, and you don't have to adjust 100% because we're not mimicking any, anybody, but if you're a fast talker and you're willing to slow down just a little bit, what will happen is the other person will likely start to speed up a little bit, and you guys will find this happy medium in the conversation. And the reason I like rate of speech and vice versa, on the other way, too, if you're a slow talker, be willing to speed up a little bit. And the. The fast talker oftentimes will slow down a little bit. So whatever your rate of speech is, you're perfect. Right? Like, there's nothing wr with you. It's just learning to add some flexibility to your behavior again, to put the other person at ease. And I will say this because I don't know if you've noticed, but when you meet somebody who's similar to you in some way, we feel a connection to people who are like us. Like, we like people who are like us. But here's the more important thing is when you meet somebody and you tell me, Kwame, but when you meet somebody who's like you, that you get a sense of, like, this person and I, we have a lot in common. I don't know if you've ever noticed, but you probably think that person is smart because you know you're smart, right?

Yep.

Like, you know you're smart. And when you meet somebody who's like you, you like them, you'll stay in conversation with them longer and you'll think, gosh, this person is smart. We think alike. So when you're willing to make adjustments to the other person, it just builds connection faster. And you know, when you're speaking on zoom, when you're in person with somebody or when you're on the phone with somebody, you can always pick up rate of speech. The only time you can't do it is when you're just in email communication. So any live conversation, if you're willing to pay attention somebody's rate of speech and you're willing to adjust just slightly. In NLP, they say adjust 50 to 60% to the other person, not 100%. But, you know, if you can get 50%, even 40% is going to Going to do better for the relationship. You will find that you'll have deeper connections. Now, I'll give you the flip side of this. If you find yourself in a conversation and you want to get out of it as quickly as possible, like, adjust your rate of speech to be the opposite of the person you're in conversation with, and they'll want to end that conversation with you quickly.

So essentially, Nikki, what you just did is you gave us dating advice. If you like the person, match the rate of speech. If you want to get out of this, you change it up. I love this. This is. It's so simple but so powerful. I just did an interview with Gary Nestner, the lead hostage negotiator or FBI negotiator for the Waco crisis back in the day. And he said, in his experience, learning from the greatest negotiators, there's one thing that everybody has in common and that was likability. Every good negotiator is likable. And it was really fascinating to me because I realized that too. And this is such an easy way to get people to like you, because we always think about what do I need to do to get people to like me? Do I need to be a people pleaser? Do I need to compromise inappropriately? Do I need to compliment them when I don't believe it? Flattery, those type of things? This is so simple. You just need to be you, but a little bit faster or a little bit slower. And there are going to be times where you increase your rate of speech naturally. There are going to be times where you decrease your rate of speech naturally. So most likely this little flex is going to be still within your authentic range of communication. And when you talk about similarity, really what we're talking about is affinity bias. So I see you as like me, right? And so the more like the other person you can be, you can seem, the more they are going to like you. And this is a good way to do that without compromising your values, your position, or anything like this. It's like, hey, we speak the same rate of speech and it's subconscious. They're not even going to recognize it. Which I think is one of those things that makes you a lot more persuasive too. And then the last point, when we're always. When we're thinking about trust, one of the things that helps people to trust you more is competence. Does this person seem competent? And sometimes we might be strategically trying to demonstrate our competence, or out of insecurity, we might be trying to read through our resume and show people we're competent. But again, this is a simple way of showing that we're competent in the eyes of the other person without having to seem arrogant by reading through all of our accomplishments. So this is a really, really strong start.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you know, I just. I actually just got. Right before I started this conversation with you, I was having a conversation with somebody else for her podcast, and before we started recording, she said to me, gosh, I really like you, Nikki. I just. I really like you. And so, of course, I'm super flattered by that. But I also. There's a part of me in my brain that's going. It's probably because I'm making some adjustments here, not big ones. I'm not pretending to be something I'm not. I'm just paying attention to her and her energy and how she's showing up, and I'm just willing to, like, adjust mine a little bit. And. And it was that fast that she was like, I really like you. I was like, great, and we're going to have a great conversation. And we really did. Right? So it just. It. It, like, it smooths the waters. It calms the waters. Right? So that's. That's. I love the rate of speech.

1. Absolutely. This is good. This is good. So let's give us another one. What else is something that we can do?

So the other thing I think is really important is to. Is to learn how to ask questions versus always making statements. Now, I'll say that I bring this into my sales works, my work, all the time. Like, you can make a lot of statements at people, but most of us are so sick of being talked at, but you can actually have the same impact, but do it in a way that is a question that now can allow the other person to decide how they feel about something or whether they agree with something versus making a statement. So I can say to somebody, for instance, you know, when you hire me, this is. You know, imagine when you hire me, you're going to feel so much more confident when you're in your sales conversations, right? Like, I could make that as a statement, or I could say, now, would you benefit from feeling more confident in your sales conversations? Is that something you're looking for? So just by framing it as a question, it allows for you to go, yeah, that is something I'm looking for. And now you feel more inclined to want to continue the conversation with me, because why would I ask that question if I didn't know that I could do that? For you. Right. So it helps plant seeds. So I love questions. I think questions are one of the most impactful ways to build relationship with people is I also think what you tell me, because you're really the expert on negotiations. But I think usually the person who's asking questions tends to hold the power in a conversation. So if you're asking questions now, the other person's in the position, and I don't mean like you're on the witness stand, like, answer me all my questions, but it's like, let's build connection and you get to share about you. Because most of us are more interested in ourselves than we are in the other person. So if you want to build connection with somebody, let them see how interested you are in them and ask questions instead of make statements.

I agree 100%. And sometimes people ask, hey, Kwame, what kind of negotiator are you? What kind of approach do you use those type of things? And I just say, listen to my podcast. This is how I do it. The same methodology that I use in a negotiation is really similar to the way that I handle a podcast, because this is a great example, because I'm controlling the conversation, because I'm asking the questions. You're the one who's talking and giving all of the answers. Same thing in the negotiation. You want to have that type of ratio where the other person's talking more, you're getting more information, which is beneficial, but then also the person feels good because most of the time, people aren't good listeners. It's like, wow, I'm talking to somebody who's listening to me. This is incredible. It's so validating. So absolutely. Questions are so powerful. I think this is really the. Why do I say I think it is my. The, the. The methodology that I use for my difficult conversations is compassionate curiosity. It's all based in that. Curiosity is very question based. So, yeah, it's. And it's really interesting now that you're saying this, Nikki, because I'm realizing that, that a lot of what people come onto the podcast and talk about it is nlp. We just don't call it nlp.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you and I have a mutual connection. Molina Palmer, who's, you know, behavioral economist and shout out for Molina. She's absolutely amazing. And we have a lot of similarities in the things like she comes from it, from this behavioral economist standpoint, with all of this research and studies behind it. I come from my NLP background. Background. And oftentimes Molina and I are saying like, oh, in you know, in be, as she refers to it, is, it's like, that's this theory. And I'm thinking like, okay, so in nlp, this is matching and mirroring, or this is, you know, anchoring. And, you know, although they use anchoring also in behavioral economics, but it's just there's a lot of very similarity, a lot of similarities, a lot of crossover in these conversations. So you might be, you know, somebody who's listening might be like, oh, we learned a version of that in my psychology class. And I'm going, well, I learned it in my NLP class. The thing is, does it work? Does it work? Does it make an impact? And however you want to label it, as long as you're doing it with a high level of integrity and you're building connection with people, that I think is where you're going to see success in relationships, in business, in life.

100%. 100%. This is great. So asking questions. And one last note to the listeners too. One of the challenges that I have for you all, because this has been really helpful for me, is whenever you think of a statement that you want to make, what I like to do is try to force myself to turn that into a question of some sort, because like you said, we're planting seeds. And sometimes I might make a statement has no impact or perceptible impact at that moment. But if I were to turn that into a question, it's like it plants this seed. And it might not lead them to change their perspective in that very moment, but it causes them to put their brain in a different place, so they go to a different place. When somebody asks a question, even if you don't answer it verbally, your. Your brain addresses it. Right. But it's easy to be defensive and just shut down statements without really giving it full consideration.

Yeah. And that brings me to. I don't know if you're. This is even interesting for you for us to talk about, so I. We can ignore it, but do you talk about polarity response at all? Is that something.

Let's do it today.

Okay. Okay. So the reason I bring it up is because the way that just what you had said about like, you know, it might not land for somebody if you're making a statement. So in nlp, a polarity response is an example of. It is like you say yes, the other person says no. You say black, they say white, you say love, they say hate. You know, it's like they take the opposite view of whatever it is that you, that you say by the way we all have a polarity response. Some of these people have like, they live in your home and they have a really high polarity response to you. Sometimes it's context specific, sometimes it's relationship specific as, as to when the polarity response arises. And for some people, it's become a, a behavioral, like an everyday behavioral trait. So if you say to somebody, this is a super in like basic example. But you say to somebody, you know, like, hey, I was thinking we should have Italian tonight for dinner. And they go, italian, really? I was really thinking we should have tie. Like, it doesn't matter what you would have said. They would have said the, you know, some other version. But when you learn how to recognize somebody who has a polarity response to you or to the conversation that you're having, you can change up the way that you frame. Instead of saying, like, I think we should have Italian, you could go, you know, you probably aren't in the mood for Italian tonight because they want to now take the opposite. So they'll say, well, Italian doesn't sound so bad, right? Because now if the opposite isn't like not Italian, it's like, oh, no, actually I, I do like Italian. Let's have Italian tonight. So when you think about in a conversation with somebody who has a very high polari response to again, something you're saying or just the conversation or the context of what you're talking about. And I had this example. I learned about polarity response many, many years ago studying nlp. And I had a, a the owner of our largest customer. When I was working for a really big company, this was a, you know, they did $130 million a year with our company. So the owner, he had a very high polarity response, wants so anything. You came to him and you're like, hey, I have an idea. Super excited to share it with you. He would say, no, won't work. And, and so when I learned that this was just kind of his natural go to, I. I would go to him and I would say, so I have this idea, but I'm not even sure it would work. And he'd be like, tell me the idea. And then I would tell him. And I'm like, but I don't know. I don't even know if this is something you would even explore. He'd be like, let me tell you how we're gonna do it. And then it would become his idea. And then he would find the solution. And ultimately it wasn't about me. And I want to say really clearly if he didn't like the idea, it wasn't like he was going to agree to it, but he'd be more open to exploring it if I could frame it in a different way. So framing is super important in your language and specifically of bringing in some NLP to it. How do you frame something to somebody so that they are. Be more open to hearing it and then they can find a solution? I. I had a client who had a really high polarity response. She would always, like, Nikki, give me five ideas of things I can do right now to bring more money into my business. And I would find that every time I'd write a, you know, I would throw out an idea, she'd be like, nope, won't work. Didn't it? Nope. So I just realized, okay, so she's got this high polarity. So when she would ask me for these things, I would say, now, now I'm going to throw out these ideas, and I'm going to throw them out really fast. And I just want you to knock them down as fast as you can, like, tell me immediately it won't work so that we can just move on. So then I would throw it on an idea, and she'd be like, let me think about that one. And then she would slow down enough to, like, consider it. Doesn't mean she's necessarily going to do it, but she's much more open to now taking in the information. As long as I was telling her, like, reject it. Reject it as fast as possible. Because her polarity response is, I'm not going to reject it as fast as possible. I'm going to consider it.

You know, there are. There are two great philosophers who actually introduced the concept of polarity to the masses. One is named Daffy and the other one is named Bugs. You think about the old Looney Tunes, rabbit season, duck season, then they would switch it up. That's what this sounds like to me. It makes so much sen. Really love this. Because I think, as you were saying this, I know I was. I think everybody was saying, oh, I know exactly who that is. In my life. We all have people who respond in this way. And in the mediation world, there's a concept called reactive devaluation. And the way that I describe it is this is the. Just because you said it, I don't believe it, bias. And so what they find in mediation is that sometimes if one of the parties has an idea that we believe is acceptable, we make sure that the other party doesn't send that message. It goes through the mediator and the mediator presents it as their own idea, and it makes it more tolerable. But in this situation, if we're negotiating, a lot of times we don't have. Let's assume we don't have the benefit of a third party to float the idea. We have to do it ourselves. And we realize there's a polarity response as it relates to us in this situation. Okay. So I know they're going to disagree with me, so let me frame it differently. And I love the way that you describe it. We are asking ourselves, and I think we should just ask ourselves this in general, even if there's not a polarity response. But in general, how should I frame this message in a way that will make them more open to it? And the key word there is open, because a lot of times we're making these really, really, really great points to somebody who is not at all receptive. We haven't taken the time to open them up so they can actually receive the message. And so this is a really powerful methodology that I think we could use in almost all of our conversations.

I use it quite often. And when you start to recognize, you know, I have somebody who lives in my home that has a high polarity response. Right. And I also have learned, and this is, again, back from my NLP background. I've learned that he likes to take his time to make big decisions. Right. Like, I'm a quick start on the Colby, like, you put something in front of me, I can probably make a decision about it. Yes. No, let's go. Or I'm not in. Right? Like, it's super fast. But any big decisions in his life takes about a year. I've. I've learned this after being together, you know, being with my significant other now for coming up on our 20th year. So, you know, I've learned, and I'm willing to put that time in. And so I'll do this. I'll. I'll say, like, gosh, I don't even know that this is something we should even be thinking about or talking about. And I just plant that little seed, right? And then, you know, within a year, a lot of times, he comes back to me, and he's like, you know, what we should do? I'm like, what? And he'll like, tell me this thing that I'm like, I don't think we should do that. And then I'm like, that's such a great idea. Let's go. Let's do that. You know, and so it's willing to Invest in the relationship. And again, it's not. And I want to be really clear. It's not like I can say 100% if my significant other is an absolute no to something. It's not. My. My job is to not try to convince him to change his mind. My job is just to see is he open, Is he open to considering? And if he's open, and if. And if he decides that this is his idea and that this is the way we should do something, I don't really care how we get there, because for me, it's about outcome. And this is very NLP too. It's like, what's your outcome? What do you. What do you ultimately want to happen? And if I ultimately want this to happen, as long as we get there, I don't care how we got there. I don't need the credit for it. I just need to know that we're moving in that direction.

Now, the point that you just made is very rational. And most people would say, yes, I agree, the outcome is important. Then in practice, our ego gets in the way. And then we're like, no, I want to persuade this person, but I want to persuade them my way. I'm going to talk as fast as I want, and I'm going to be as polarizing as possible in this process. And I think what we're realizing is that there's a specific type of mindset that needs to go along with these types of strategies. Because if you're too arrogant, then you're not going to be willing to adjust. But it's like you said at the beginning, if you're flexible, you can bend without breaking. But if you're really rigid, then you have one very narrow path to victory. And then when you run into resistance, then you're not willing to go into your bag of tricks because you're not persuading in the way that you want to persuade. And so I think that's a really important point for us to remember. We have to keep our mind focused on the big picture. What is it that we ultimately want to accomplish? And then also recognize that our ego can get in the way of accomplishing that goal too.

Absolutely. And there's no doubt that my ego does get in the way. I'm not always at my best. Right. Like, I learned this through NLP too. Like, your performance will be within a range. You know, some days when I'm really at my best, when I'm firing on all cylinders and I've got like, you know, I'm well rested, you Know, well fed, well hydrated, all that good stuff. You know, I might be at an 8 or a 9, but there are other days where, you know, I'm at like a two or a three. And the one thing I have learned is that sometimes it's not about trying to always get to be the eight or nine. I'm just trying to be the best three I can be on certain days. It doesn't mean my ego won't get in the way. It doesn't mean I won't be perfect or, you know, I'm not going to necessarily say the right thing. But I also think about, you know, again, going back to the stuff that you study in nlp. They. NLP is, they say the foundation of NLP is rapport. So everything is built on rapport. And I always think I have a rapport bank account with every single person I come into contact with. And most days my goal is always to make deposits in that account because I want to build up a balance. Because there will be days where I'm at a three or a two or one if I'm like, really at my worst and I'm going to make a withdrawal. And if I have a balance built up, like, that person will still probably give me some grace. But if you're just meeting somebody for the first time and you make a withdrawal from a. From an account that's empty, that chances are you don't get a second chance, right? So how can you show up and make deposits over and over and over again in every relationship, in every contact? And I'm going to say that's really ultimately how I use NLP in my life, is am I making deposits?

This is great. And I think one of the best things about this is that it is very doable. All of these things are very doable. And so, no, this isn't wizardry. It's just science. That's all it is. So, Nikki, I'm glad you were able to come on the POD today and share your wisdom with us. And before you go, can you let the listeners know about your podcast, your business, and how they can get in touch?

Yes. Thank you so much. So the podcast is called Sales Maven. It is individual episodes where I'm doing sales, sales techniques, teaching sales techniques. I do on air coaching calls on there. So you get to be a fly on the wall and listen to, you know, how other people are getting advised to move forward. And then I do a Mastering Excellence series where I dig into the unconscious competence. That's really the NLP piece that I bring in. So get to dig into somebody's unconscious competence and what are the things that they get exceptional results at so that you can hear structure. So that's the Sales Maven podcast, and if you're interested in being connected, I'd love to wrap it around a gift for your listener. So if you're interested in sales and you'd like to learn how to use some of these techniques in your sales conversations, I have an ebook called Closing the Sale. You can grab it by going to yoursalesmaven.com forward/kwame. So this is specific for your audience and and then we'll be connected.

Cool. Thank you so much, Nikki. This was great and can't wait to have you back on because I feel like we are just scratching the surf of nlp. So thanks for sharing your wisdom with us today.

Thanks for having me.

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