Finding Belonging: Caryn Davies Shares Her Olympic Journey

Someone once said to me, if I were you, I would never have a bad day. I would put on all my Olympic medals and I would stand in front of the mirror and I would just be like, you're amazing. When. When he said that to me, I laughed. But I also felt this profound sadness because I was like, I wish it worked that way. That's how I thought it was going to work. And it's not. Winning an Olympic gold medal, the high, the happiness, the contentment lasts about two weeks, and then you're back to being the same lost soul with the same fears and insecurities and uncertainties as before.

Hey, I'm Kwame Christian, and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast, podcast and the world where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process. Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts. We delve into negotiation, conflict resolution, and leadership skills that are crucial in both business and in life. Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team, or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed. Our conversations are real, relatable, and most importantly, rooted in practicality. So if you're ready to transform your conversations and elevate your negotiation skills, join me on Negotiate Anything. Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen. Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation. Karen, thanks for joining us today.

Thanks so much for having me.

It is our pleasure. So how would you get us started? By telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

My name is Karen Davies. I am an Olympic gold medalist in the sport of rowing, and I am also a lawyer with my own law firm called Podium Law.

Incredible branding. Incredible branding. And also I feel like there is a burgeoning speaking career that may or may not be occurring. Can you let the listeners know about that, too?

Yes. I love to share my story about my Olympic journey, both the highs and the lows, and I'm available to do that. You can find me on LinkedIn. Karen Davies.

Awesome. And listeners, we will have links to all of Karen's goodies in the description of this episode, but today I feel like it's story time. Can you tell the listeners about your experience? I'm going to focus in on one of the many Olympic experiences that you've had, but there's one that was particularly resonant and it happened in Tokyo. Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, it. It actually wasn't in Tokyo, but it was leading up to the Tokyo Olympic Games. And I mentioned that when I speak, I share both the highs and the lows. And I found that the lows are actually the most interesting and the stories that people most connect with. So this is actually a low. Here we go. I retired for the first time in 2012 with two Olympic gold medals. It was great. And then fast forward some years. In 2019, I decided to come out of retirement to train for the Tokyo Olympic Games, which were scheduled for 2020. And I did that because I figured, well, a few things, but mostly, if you have the opportunity to be the best in the world at something, you should do it. And I realized that I could probably still do it, and I wanted to give it a shot, but I knew that it was a long shot. So I chose my goals for that year very carefully because I was quitting my job. I was working at a big law firm, like, making good money, and I had to quit that job to move back to the training center in New Jersey and give this a go. So the goals that I set for myself, understanding I had to be able to meet them whether or not I make the team, were learn something new, and that's hard. I've been rowing for over 20 years and be the best teammate that you can be. And that was partially a selfish goal because I knew that that was actually my best chance of making the team, was that if I could make everyone around me better, then I would be a better choice for the team. That was something I learned in previous Olympiads, and that's a whole nother story altogether. But anyway, so I moved, quit my job, packed my car, showed up at the training center in New Jersey, and I had this idea that I was going to be a mentor to these young women because I was the oldest there, the person with the most experience. So, yeah, I kind of had this. This image that I would come and, like, open my arms and be like, come, my children. Let me show you how it's done. But at the same time, I was a lot slower than all these women because, well, I'm older, and you generally get slower as you get older. And they'd been training for years when I was working in a law firm. So I was intimidated, and I showed up and I looked around and I was just like, oh, man, I better prove that I belong here before I try to step into that mentorship role. I better put my head down. And this has worked for me in past, like, put my head down, just work Hard show that I am worthy of being part of this team by how fast I'm going, and then people will start to look up to me. So that's what I did. And the year went by, or most of the year went by, and I was really unhappy, Kwame. I did not belong, and my teammates did not like me. And I. I wasn't. I didn't really know that, but I kind of got the impress, you know, like, people didn't welcome me. Right. And that's partly because they were threatened by me. I. You know, that's. I wasn't surprised about that. Like, we're all competing to make this team, and less than half of the group was going to make the team. So then Covid happened. It's March of 2020. We all know what happened then. And the Olympic Games got postponed until 2021. And I thought, I don't know if I want to do this for another year. I am so unhappy. I'm not meeting my goals, which were, learn something new. Like, what have I learned? I've learned that I'm miserable. Be a good teammate. I don't belong here. Nobody is interested in being my friend or learning from me. Like, what am I doing here? But then I thought, well, you know, you get a do over. Like, you get. We can just restart this year. You get a whole nother year to figure out, like, why this isn't working and how to make it better. So that summer, we all kind of, like, went home and we were training on our own because, you know, you had. We had to isolate. I decided to call every one of my teammates. There were about 30 women in that training group, and ask, what can I do to be a better teammate to you? And those were the most difficult conversations of my life. I could only manage about two phone calls a week because they were so emotional for me. Some of them were very positive. One of my teammates, I said that to her, and she just burst into tears. And she said, no one's ever asked me that before. What can I do to help you? And she just was so thankful, gave me some things, and that was really wonderful. Some of them were gut wrenching. This one woman who I had known for a long time, she said, you know, I've known you for 15 years, and I have nothing good to say about you. And I was like, oh, okay, thanks for that. But my question was, what can I do to be a better teammate to you? I was like, well, thanks for sharing, and what should I do about that? So, yeah, there were days That I just cried for days after some of these phone calls. And one that was particularly tough but also particularly useful. I spoke to a woman who said, the reason we don't like you is because we think that you act entitled. It's like, you show up and you. You think you're going to make the team no matter what. Like, just because you already have two Olympic gold medals. And I realized that what I was doing because I was scared came across as entitled. This, like, being very quiet, not sharing how much I was struggling and how hard this was for. Came across as, this is really easy for me. Like, I don't have to. I don't have to struggle with the rest of you, right? So I decided that in order to be a good leader, I had to be vulnerable with what I was going through. So I started to share, like, hey, this is. Man, this is really hard for me. I've been to three Olympics, but this is, like, the hardest I've ever done trying to train when I'm almost 40 years old and just, like, get through the day and I don't know if I'm going to make the team. And that really scares me. And once I started to open up like that, then the people around me started to do the same, and they started to be like, yeah, man, like, here's what I'm struggling with. What have you done in the past? Or what do you think? Like, you've been around for so long. How. How do you do it? So things completely changed. And I also. You know what else is interesting? When I started to feel more comfortable, when I started to feel like I belong, I started to go a lot faster. So I was actually going, like, posting some of the fastest scores I have in my rowing career at the age of almost 40, which is pretty impressive. So I. We already know this story doesn't have a good ending. I got injured. I hurt my shoulder. This was sometime in the spring of 2021. And I couldn't row for three months. And I would be on the exercise bike at the back of the boat bay, just, like, thrashing myself, sweat pouring down my face, like, as I watched everyone else pick up their boats and walk out into the sunshine. And I sort of felt like as I watched them walk away, that I was also watching my Olympic dreams kind of fade into the sunset. And I thought about quitting many times. But the reason I stayed is I said, you know what? I can still be a good teammate whether or not I make this team, whether or not I get back in that boat. Just by being here, I am accomplishing my goal. So every day, showed up, tried to make it super clear, like, I am here for us. I would just want to be a good teammate. And the day came that I knew it would. The coach called me into his office, and I had known this coach for 20 years. He was my coach throughout my whole Olympic career. And he said, I think you know what I'm going to say. And I said, yeah, I know. You're. You're cutting me, aren't you? Said, yep, I'm not going to give you any more chances. But then he said something I didn't expect. He said, some of the women that are going to go to Tokyo don't yet know. Some may never know what it means to be an Olympian. But you've shown with your actions in these last few months that you are a true Olympian. And with that, I walked out of his office trying not to cry. And I saw a group of my teammates who were probably going to make the team, stretching at the side of the boat bay. And I just walked right past them. I didn't even look at them, because I knew that if I did, I knew that if I said goodbye, that I would cry. And I just didn't want to do that right then. So I walked out to my car, and the same woman who told me that she thought I was entitled, later, I was talking to her, and she said, you know, when you walked right past us, I thought, is this how Karen Davies ends her rowing career? She just walks out of this boathouse and she doesn't even say goodbye. But that's not how it ended. Over the next couple days and weeks, I got messages from almost everyone on that team saying, thank you. Thank you for being a mentor to me. Thank you for helping me row better. Thank you for all you've taught me. Thank you for helping me get through this year. I couldn't have gotten through it without you. And getting those, I realized that I had actually won something more important than another Olympic gold medal, and that's the trust and respect and in some cases, even the love of my teammates.

Wow. I feel like it's almost inappropriate to tack on anything onto that story. Thank you so much for sharing that. There's so many elements and listeners, you can see now why this is so important to share, because behind this story, you can see how many impactful and meaningful and really, really tough conversations went into making this story. And I want to circle back to something that you said at the beginning. You said you had two goals Be the best teammate you could be. And I think you checked that box. And it started with these tough conversations and then learning something new. What was that thing that you learned?

Oh, man. I learned something that had been bothering me ever since I retired from the sport, and that was like, what was it all for?

Because.

Winning. So someone once said to me, if I were you, I would never have a bad day. I would put on all my Olympic medals, and I would stand in front of the mirror and I would just be like, you're amazing. When. When he said that to me, I laughed. But I also felt this profound sadness because I was like, I wish it worked that way. That's how I thought it was going to work. And it's not. Winning an Olympic gold medal, the. The high, the happiness, the contentment lasts about two weeks, and then you're back to being the same lost soul with the same fears and insecurities and uncertainties as before.

I've got a quick story for you. So I was at this keynote, and I talked to a listener, and he said, kwame, I love the podcast, but my favorite part, man, I love those commercials. And I said, I don't think this is a true story. And now let me tell you about Negotiate Anything Premium, where you can listen to your favorite Negotiate Anything episodes ad free. With a subscription to Premium, you can get access to more insights from your free favorite favorite experts and ad free listening and extended episodes. Bonus, you'll also get access to exclusive episodes and personalized advice from yours truly. If you've been looking for an easy and affordable way to level up your skills and negotiate more of the best things in life, join our Premium community now for that gentleman in that fictional story. This ads for you and for the rest of you, I'll see you in Premium.

And I felt like, well, if being not successful didn't bring happiness, fulfillment, contentment, like, what was the point? And going through that experience in 2020, I realized why I spent all those years training. And it was I just wanted a place to belong. And I found that. And that's why I was so sad when it was over.

I tell you the story that you're telling just about the emotional roller coaster of success. I wish more people would tell it because it is one of the scariest things in the world to climb to the top of the mountain and find that there's nothing really there. And I remember when I started to have a bit of a crisis was when I started winning awards because I was operating with a chip on my shoulder, like oh, you, Kwame, you're the lawyer. You graduated from the school. You had all these accolades. You could have just made a lot of money, beat working in a law firm. And then you decided to do this. This entrepreneurial thing. Like, why? It doesn't make any sense. And so I was like, I'm going to prove people wrong. Fun fact. No. Nobody was, like, saying those things. It was all made up in my head. My wife tells me quite frequently, everybody believed in you, Kwame. What are you talking about? But that was the narrative in my mind. And so then when I started to win these awards, it was just the world saying, hey, Kwame, we agree. We believe in you. The vision was. Was real. You were. You were right, and you're getting the success that you always wanted. And then I said, well, why do I feel worse than I did before? And I think it's really what we have to do is when we have those feelings, we recognize that there's something that we're looking for, and we try to fill that gap in our soul with success. And one of the scariest things is when you get that success and you recognize the hole is still there. And what you found is that what you were looking for is belonging. And it seems like you really started to come to that realization of what it was that you were looking for, and then starting to get that when you opened yourself up and started to be more vulnerable. But that's hard to do. So how did you find the courage to be more vulnerable and open up and ask that question, how can I be a better teammate?

Well, I mean, the easy answer, it was either that or quit because I was so unhappy. I was like, I gotta do something, right? And I realized that if I quit, like I said, I wouldn't have learned anything. And, well, then what was the whole point of that whole year, two years in the end. So I guess it was just trying to find some kind of why, like, meaning in the whole experience.

It's powerful. And now, because I know when it comes to the speaking that you do, belonging is a big part of that. And so now for the people out there who are listening, who are not Olympians, when they are seeking belonging and they want to connect with people, what would you say is the first step?

Compassion. The way you could be a better teammate is to exercise compassion, which is figuring out what other people are struggling with and then how you can help them, adjusting what you do to help the group, to help the people around you perform.

This is great. And one of the things I love about this, like hosting this podcast, is that I, you know, every once in a while I turn it into a micro coaching session for myself and then bring it back to the audience. This is, this is one of those coaching sessions for me because I love that, the story about adjusting your rhythm that so it's easier to follow. And I think for me too, that was tough. For me as a, as a leader, coming from a solopreneur to building this enterprise is, hey, this is how I always did it. I always followed me. I always followed my train of thought. Why can't other people follow? Well, because you're you and they're not, right? And then once you start to be more of a selfless leader, focusing on the needs of other people, now you can recognize how you can adjust in a way that's not compromising the outcome of what it is that you're there to accomplish. And I love starting with compassion too. And again, selfishly, we have the compassionate curiosity framework for difficult conversations. So we talk about, first, acknowledging and validating emotions to lower the emotional temperature in the room second, getting curious with compassion. So asking open ended questions with a compassionate tone to empathize, gather information and learn. And then lastly, joint problem solving, working with the other person to try to find a solution. And so I can see how that methodology really put is, it fits perfectly with what it is that you're saying because we have to be able to have a deep understanding of what the other person needs and wants and then be flexible enough and humble enough to make those adjustments so that we can be a good leader, give them what we want, what they want, while at the same time advancing the goals and mission of the organization too.

Yeah.

Oh, this is great. This is great. And let me, let's, let's talk about this too, because I think this was a really interesting element of your, of your story that I think is easy to overlook. And it comes down to the assumptions you might have of other people without that curiosity because you were saying that you were feeling scared of the whole situation and a little bit intimidated by the situation, and as a result it made you a little bit standoffish. And then other people interpreted that behavior negatively as you are entitled. And I think there are two things that we can do here. We can analyze it from the perspective of, hey, let's not jump to conclusions here. Switch the assumption to a hypothesis and test the hypothesis. Hey, let me, I just want to touch base, see how you're doing and then investigate that yourself. But then also for us, we have to be a little bit more conscious about how we and our behavior might be misinterpreted by other people too. And so we have to be vulnerable as well. And so when you think about that element of this story, and if you could go back in time and talk to Karen of that time, what advice would you give her?

The one that you're talking about, the Karen of the time before I had the idea to ask.

Before you had the idea, when you were a bit standoff offish at that time?

Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I would, I would start with a little bit of compassion, right. Because I was in a very scared and vulnerable place and just feel like, man, this is hard. And these, you know, you might not make this team, these people might not want you to make this team, but remember why you're here, which is to be helpful. And if you're not connecting with people, then you can't be helpful to them. So figure out how to connect.

I love this for so many reasons, because what I like to. When, when it comes to these tough conversations, we focus so much on the conversations we have with other people, but we don't think about the conversations that we have to have with ourselves to then do what is required under the circumstances. And when it comes to the courage that's required to step up in life, but also in these conversations, it requires a lot of self directed compassion. We are often so much faster to dole out the compassion to other people, but we don't give it to ourselves, which makes us less likely to be vulnerable because our harshest critic is ourself. And so in order to take these steps and do the things that you're talking about, I think for the listeners, one of the things you have to recognize is that there has to be a little bit of that metacognition, thinking about thinking. We have to dig deep within, deeply within our own minds to figure out what it is exactly that's holding us back from doing what it is that we need to do. Because somebody can listen to this podcast and say, okay, Karen said to be vulnerable. I don't want to do that. Yeah, I know exactly what I need to do and I'm not going to do that. And so we need some self directed compassion and some curiosity too, to say, all right, well, what is it that's holding me back from doing that thing? What am I really afraid of? How can I solve that problem internally so I can have the proper external conversation.

For all the listeners who aren't watching the video? I'm sitting here rubbing my hands together with this look of like, I just thought of something really good because I'm remembering something one of my coaches taught me as a young athlete. She noticed that I was really hard on myself and I just put a lot of pressure on myself to have my best performance whenever there was any kind of measurement testing situation. And you can't have your best performance all the time. You do, you know, where human beings are not capable, we're not machines. And then when I didn't, inevitably I didn't have a good performance. Every now and then I was myself up, which meant that the next time I would get super nervous because I was scared of not having a good performance because then I would beat myself up. And it was this like, negative cycle. And she said, hey, you gotta understand, like, it's a. It's the long game here. Like, you just need to figure out how to get better over a long period of time. And a sports psych actually put it very succinctly a number of years later, he said, don't aim to have your best performance every day. Just aim to beat your average and then you'll consistently improve. Which is a way of showing yourself some compassion. Like, understand that it's not like today, failure today is okay. Because really we're focused on the long arc.

Oh, this is good. I'm taking. I am taking that note. Man, I love this podcast. I always learn so much as I go through this. This is great. Yeah. I think. And tell me if this resonates with you. I've seen this with other high performers and I'm telling on myself too. I think there is that there's a hesitancy of high achievers to. To give ourselves that grace to. And that compassion. To say, hey, you're not going to be at your best all the time. Because the. We feel as though that abusive self talk is what gives us that edge.

Yeah.

And if I'm nice to myself, can I still be the best? I don't know. And so there's almost like a reluctance to. To give ourselves that grace.

Yeah. And it's also part of your identity. Like, being a high performer is part of your identity. And if your identity is threatened every time you don't perform, that's terrifying.

And then if we circle all of this back to belonging, I think what's really interesting is that we have to give ourselves that grace and belong within ourselves and accept ourselves in order to be in a better position to accept others and at the same time be accepted by Others too.

Yeah. Yeah. You can't only accept yourself when you're at your best. You gotta belong with yourself when you're at yours. Yes.

I love this and we have ended this podcast on an incredibly Zen note, which I love. And I know there are a lot of listeners who are like, oh my goodness, I need a keynote speaker, I need a trainer. And I'm looking for somebody who has this kind of Olympic mindset who can help my team with leadership and belonging. Karen, anybody coming to mind as to who they could reach out to for such a time as that man?

Oh, I know her name's Karen Davies and the best place to find her is on LinkedIn. And if you forget like how to spell a name or whatever, you can Google podium law on LinkedIn.

Awesome. And you can check the link in the description. We will make it even easier. Karen, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Before you sign off, I have something to tell you that I've never told you before. Just kidding. I've told you before, but you should listen to it again. I want you to know about Negotiate Anything Premium. Imagine all of the things that you love about our traditional feed, plus so much more. I know you like our traditional feed because you're at the end of the episode. And with Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll get more bonus content you've been asking for more of the expert insights that you can't get anywhere else and more exclusive behind the scenes access into every conversation. Are you ready to get more of what you want out of your life, career and every conversation? With Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll have access to more high level, custom designed content and insights giving you the tools you need to negotiate higher salaries, better deals, and better relationships in your life and career. Once I had a listener share that Negotiate Anything helped her to negotiate a $53,000 raise. Could this be you? What would that mean for your life? I've seen firsthand the impact this model has had on my life and the lives of my corporate clients and I am confident that it can do the same for you. Are you ready to negotiate more of the best things in life? Click the link in the show notes to learn more. I'll catch you later.