Harnessing Introvert Power in Negotiations with Beth Buelow

Hello, my friend, and welcome to another exciting episode of Negotiate Anything. Thanks for joining us today. With over 10 million downloads and listeners from more than 180 different countries, it's dedicated listeners just like you who have made Negotiate Anything the number one negotiation podcast in the world. I'm your host, Kwame Christian. I'm a business lawyer, mediator, author, and the proud CEO of of the American Negotiation Institute. Now, before we get into today's insightful conversation, I have a golden opportunity for those of you who recognize the power of negotiation in your professional lives. Have you ever found yourself wishing that you could navigate those high stakes conversations with more confidence? Or perhaps you're looking to empower your team with the art of persuasion and conflict resolution? At the American Negotiation Institute, we've crafted specialized keynotes and workshops tailored for those very needs. We've transformed the negotiation skills of professionals worldwide, and we're eager to do the same for you. We believe the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. And our goal is to help you improve your lives and the lives of those around you, one difficult conversation at a time. Don't let another challenging conversation leave you second guessing. Click the link in the description to discover how we can help you find confidence in conflict, negotiate better deals, and have stronger relationships. Because in the world of business, every conversation counts. And now, without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Beth, thanks for joining us.

Hey, it's great to be here, Kwame.

Yeah, pleasure to have you. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Well, I have to say, as an introvert, this is a hard question, mostly because we tend not to like to talk about ourselves. So I'm going to answer this a little bit differently than I usually do because this sort of thing has been on my mind, and it came up in a book group recently, this question of not necessarily who you are and what you do, but a variation. What's the primary gift that you share with the world? And so I'm thinking less about defining myself by my work and more by my gifts and my preferences. So when I heard that question, and as I think about your question, the immediate thing that comes into my head is I see people, and I do that through coaching, photography, writing, podcasting, and facilitating. I synthesize and I create safe spaces. So those are the gifts that kind of define who I am and what I do. And right now, all of that's manifesting through being a coach, primarily for introvert entrepreneurs, and doing speaking and writing and with anyone that I work with, my goal is actually the same as my book subtitle, which is amplify their strengths and create success on their own terms. So that's me.

I love it. That's such a brilliant way to answer that question. I'm definitely going to steal that one.

Please. I hope to spread the word.

So with introvert coaching, what does that consist of?

Well, coaching is about. I see it as being a witness and a guide. And in working with introverts, I think especially we have been sort of underserved, at least until a few years ago, and not necessarily been seen and heard of other people. So in working with introverts and especially as entrepreneurs, my goal is to support them in seeing their personality, their energy as a strength, not as a liability. And to be able to lead with those strengths and to be able to identify, you know, because we all have challenges. And often the things that are challenging for introverts are things that are absolutely essential to being a successful entrepreneur. And so how can we look at the strengths that we have and leverage them such that they help to offset some of those challenges? Or how can we bring other resources into our business, whether they're technology or people or learning of some kind, into our business in such a way that it also offsets some of those challenges? So the coaching is just all about being an affirmative, safe space to be able to process, to strategize, to prioritize, to hold yourself accountable and to really make sure that you're leading with your strengths. Nice.

And can you tell us a little bit about the podcast, which is one of my favorites.

Thank you. Yeah. I started the podcast when I first started the Introvert Entrepreneur back in the summer of 2010 and I just posted my 150th episode and the focus is of course introverts and entrepreneurship. And sometimes it strays a little bit off the beaten path. But it's primarily an interview based podcast where I'm talking primarily with other introvert entrepreneurs and sometimes an extrovert here and there and often talking about, like, what was their journey? You know, I always start out with the question of, you know, tell us where you fall on the spectrum and how that's influenced you as an entrepreneur, as a professional. And from that we often get a lot of insights about how different introverts navigate their own particular challenges. And then I focus on whatever that person's expertise is and hopefully leave listeners with some, again, like an affirmative and positive pieces of information and inspiration that they can apply directly to their life. And to their work.

All right, so let's just jump right into it then. So the million dollar question, what is an introvert?

Yes. First, can I answer with what it's not? Yeah, I like that because we often have a faulty definition of it. It is not shy, it is not antisocial, it's not someone who doesn't like people like a misanthrope. Those tend to stereotypes that we have fallen into. And still, even despite the increase in information and conversation that we have today, I still see those words coming up in reference to introverts. So that's what it's not what it is I like to talk about. It is an energetic trait. So lots of times we talk about it as a personality trait. Like that person is quiet or hangs out on the edges, or we talk about it in terms of how that person shows up socially. When, if you go back to the original definition and the genesis of introvert and extrovert from Carl Jung back in the 1920s, it has to do with where you gain and drain your energy. So an introvert will gain energy through solitude and lower stimulation environments and drain energy during higher stimulation situations and social interaction. So notice I say it's not that we don't like those things. It's not that we're not good at them. It's not about our social skills. It's simply that it takes a lot of energy for us to be in those situations. And in order for us to be in those situations and to be healthy and happy and contributing, we need our solitude and we need our downtime. And we need that basically kind of to hit the mute button on life for a little while so that we can show up socially. And extroverts, while I don't like to talk of them as opposites, do fall on that sort of other end of the spectrum where they gain energy through social interaction and stimulation and they drain energy if they have too much solitude and alone time or not enough stimulation coming their way. And what's important to recognize is that we all fall on a spectrum. So no one is 100% introvert, 100% extrovert. Some people might come close, but you know, it's. We all have both energies within us. And so, like, I think of myself as maybe 75% introvert, 25% extrovert. And that extrovert piece is what enables me to kind of show up, do interviews like this, get up and do public speaking and basically kind of project my energy out into the world. So in order to do that, I need that 75% of my time basically to be able to introvert, to turn inward, to recharge my batteries. So that's why I think of it as an energetic trait. Kind of taking it away from that realm of talking about it in terms of your personality and whether you're bubbly and friendly and, or you're quiet and reclusive. Those are outward manifestations that may or may not be true for somebody. You can have an outgoing, gregarious introvert, but that person absolutely requires the solitude in order to be that outgoing and gregarious person.

Right. I remember how liberating this was when I discovered about. It's incredible because it's like you said, understanding it more about energy. And that's when I realized that I guess what they call an ambivert because I fall right about in the middle more on the introvert side. And so it started to make sense because sometimes after I do a training, we have anywhere between one and three hours and then afterwards people want to come and talk to you and everything. I was so confused as to why I would just turn off after that. As in my body would shut down, I would go into a room by myself and fall asleep and it would take me a long time to recover. But now having a better understanding of that, it really helped me, especially when it comes to planning my day. And so I know when I'm going to have energy and then afterwards, if I have to do a lot of interaction with somebody, interactions socially, I know that. Okay, probably for an hour or two, I can't do any high level thinking because I need to recover.

Exactly, exactly. And your story about the public speaking or the training is so, so spot on. And I know a lot of introverts, a lot of the best public speakers are introverts. The hard part isn't getting up on stage and sharing the information or you know, teaching the class. It's the before and after that can be so exhausting. And especially the after because like you said, people want to interact with you and talk with you. We just like, we gave it all we had out there and so it's like we're like, I'm done. So we really have to work to, you know, decide, you know, how much do I have to give and can I, can I kind of hang in there a little bit longer or do I need to draw a boundary? And you know, how basically how do you take care of yourself? So yeah, that awareness can be really empowering and help you to feel less shame or guilt around that. Kind of reaction because we think we should be energized and excited, but we're really not. And to know that that's okay, that's just kind of part of the gig.

That's awesome. So what are some things that introverts could do, using our special introvert powers to become more persuasive? Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better, difficult conversations? At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills. Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered. Don't just negotiate. Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute. Click the link in the description to find out more. Elevate, negotiate and succeed.

Yeah, you know, introverts have some strengths that I think go hand in hand with persuasion. And there are two in particular. One is that we tend to be, and I, and I'm always going to use that sort of tend to be because it's not universally true. But this is what kind of studies and anecdotes have shown. We tend to be really strong listeners and we tend to instinctively want to put the spotlight on others. And I think those two things, when it comes to having a persuasive conversation or even a crucial conversation, are really part of, part of the key to connecting with another person and to finding that space where you can both walk away feeling good about the interaction. In my mind, persuasion. And I'm not sure I'd be curious for you to define persuasion because as I thought about it, I thought, to me it's not about proving that you're right or that your idea is the best. To me, it's not about like convincing to the point of manipulating. It's about finding that common ground that's good for both people. And in the process, being able to honor, you know, like a win for you is being honored to what's most important to you and the other person. And I think being able, you know, those introvert superpowers of being able to really see and hear and listen to someone else and to be able to put their needs also out on the table, not just always thinking of your own, are two things that they bring to those kinds of conversations that can help them be more persuasive.

Absolutely. And those are key. Because you need to be able to be a great listener. And in order to persuade effectively, you need to have a solid understanding of what issues and interests exist within the other party. So those are key skills. And to your point, with regard to my definition of persuasion, it would be the act of getting someone to do something that they otherwise would not have done had you not had the conversation. You're absolutely right. It's not about being right or getting people to convincing them of your rightness. A lot of times you have a choice. You could either be right or you can be persuasive. And that's often what makes this process so difficult. So, yeah, I think that gives introverts a little bit of an edge when it comes to these conversations. What are some possible downfalls of being an introvert?

Oh, in some cases, it might be you listen too much. Like you're not perhaps asserting yourself into the conversation. Like, we can, if we're not careful, let someone else kind of take over because we're not comfortable with interrupting, or we're not comfortable because interruptions are interesting and I'd be curious about your. Your take on them when it comes to persuasion and negotiation. But again, generally, extroverts tend to see interruptions as excitement. Like, you're engaged, you're with me, you're in the conversation. And they almost. Again, not always. And a lot of it depends on, you know, sort of power dynamics and all of that. But typically, like, if you don't interrupt them and you don't get to say what you want to say, they're going to say, well, why didn't you interrupt me? You should have stopped me. You should have just jumped in. So as introverts, though, we almost have the opposite response to interruptions. We tend to think of them as rude. It's kind of like, hey, I finally am getting to talk. Don't. Don't jump on top of me. Don't interrupt me. Let me say my piece again. You know, it depends on the situation, the context. It might be okay, depending. But generally speaking, introverts are less comfortable with interrupting and being interrupted when it comes to persuasion or negotiation. You know, for introverts, that might be something to pay attention to. Like, if you feel like you're not getting your voice heard or you feel like you are being kind of talked into submission, it's important to sharpen that skill of being able to politely and tactfully cut your way in. And it might be saying something like, you know, can we just take a pause here for a second? Or I need to back up for a moment. Or would you mind if we stop for a second? I want to think about what you just said. Or I have a question. I use body cues. You know, assuming you're in person, I raise my hand, you know, real quick. Or you know, you try to use your body language to say, I need to get in here. And so that might sound like a small thing, but I think that it's actually a big thing because if we don't develop that particular skill when we're having these kinds of conversations, we can get railroaded or we can get to that point where we're not getting to say what was really important and then we leave the conversation either not getting what we came for or feeling like we weren't heard. And I would hope that in a successful and in a productive persuasion conversation that everyone feels heard, you might not always get what you want, but at least you got to say your piece. You feel seen and heard. And I think being able to have that dance of interrupting and not interrupting is very important to that.

Yeah, that's interesting. I've never heard that point of introverts take interruptions a little bit more personally. But it makes a lot of sense. I think back to when I'm talking to my wife and she interrupts me. I'm just like, well, I don't feel like talking anymore. Yeah, I have momentum. It's gone. It's cool. Don't worry about it. She's like, are you mad? I'm like, no, I just don't. I'm not feeling. Feeling it anymore. But with, with extroverts, I mean, they're always feeling it, so it doesn't, it doesn't really bother them. And another thing you said is try. You, you wanted to get my perspective on interruption. I always try not to interrupt during negotiations. One on one negotiations. I want to clarify that point and I'll circle back to it. Because when somebody's thinking and they have this line of thought running and you interrupt them, that line of thought, it doesn't stop. And so you might be talking, but they're still thinking through what it is that they would have said had you not interrupted. And so what ends up happening is that it's a moment of absolutely no communication because they're still saying what they wanted to say. And because of that, they're not listening to you and you're talking to somebody who's not listening. And so there's a moment of poor communication. And so I always try not to unless it's like an emergency situation. If they materially misrepresent a fact, it's like, oh, wait one thing there. Before we get too deep on a. On a line of thought that's just irrelevant or just uninformed, we should stop that and then apologize and say, okay, I just wanted to jump in and say that. But go, go back. But in group dynamics, this was. It's a little bit different because when you're in a group, you always have the specter of groupthink. And when an idea or a perspective starts to take hold and build momentum, it's almost unstoppable when too many people in the group start to get on that train. So in group situations, if I see things going too far askew from where I wanted to go, I might jump in and have to interrupt in order to get things back on track, because it's easier to lose control of group dynamics there. But one on one, I try not to.

Yeah, great advice.

Yeah. And what advice would you have for extroverts when dealing with us as weird introvert folks?

So I was typing. I write to think, right? So I was thinking about these questions. And so when I typed this, I typed it in all caps, and I said, take time to listen more than you talk. You know, I think that, you know, to show really genuine curiosity and leave, you know, ask good questions and then leave lots of space for that person to think. One important thing to remember is that this is another. Again, generalizing, but often very true. Key difference between introverts and extroverts. Extroverts like to verbally process, so they think out loud. You ask them a question, and they're probably going to start immediately talking because that's how they think. You ask an introvert a question or you make a statement, and we think to think. We process internally. Our answer might not be immediate. Especially in American culture, we are uncomfortable with silence. We fill in that silence with all sorts of stories about what's going on. Did she understand the question? Does he not like me? Does he disagree? Does this not make any sense? Are they judging me? You know, we come up with all these different stories. They didn't, you know, they're going to say no, you know, or they're going to say yes. We make up all these stories about that silence, and so we seek to fill it because it's really uncomfortable. So one of the best things that an extrovert can do is to recognize that an introvert processes internally. And when you ask a question or make a statement and you're looking for a response. Get comfortable with silence.

That's brilliant.

Leave that space. Leave that space so that they can speak when they need to. And if they say, let me think about that for a minute or can I get back to you? Leave them space to do that. And when an introvert does start processing verbally, it can be a little bit rambling and long, and, you know, it's not our story strength. And so let us process because, you know, we kind of need to go through a few thoughts if we're kind of being forced to, you know, think out loud. Give us the space to do that, too, without interruptions and, you know, just leaving lots of breathing room.

This is really interesting because in negotiation literature, they always talk about the need to remain silent and become comfortable with that uncomfortable silence. And strategically, it serves a lot of purposes. I've never thought about it from an introvert versus extrovert perspective, because I'm thinking now from. For me, sometimes I might take a little bit of time to answer. And like you said, I'm thinking. I'm processing before I begin to speak. But if somebody were to kind of talk through that process now I'm. I'm not thinking now. I'm listening again. And so it makes my cognition, my process of cognition, unnecessarily shallow. When you could have gotten a better response if you waited.

Absolutely. I think extroverts can see, and I'm not usually prone to sports analogies, but this one really fits. I think extroverts can see a conversation like a basketball game. Think about how quickly it moves back and forth, and there's constant turnover. And I don't know about you, but sometimes I'm like, one team has the ball, and then all of a sudden the other team has the ball, and you're like, wait a minute. How did that happen? And sometimes it's a little bit hard to keep track because it's going so fast, and it doesn't necessarily breathe until something goes wr. A conversation that more ideally is going to be more like a tennis match. It's got a little bit of space. There are pauses. You're lobbing back and forth in a very sort of not prescribed a routine, but in a somewhat predictable and easygoing way. It's my turn. It's your turn. It's my turn. It's your turn. The turnovers don't happen as abruptly or as sharply or as unexpectedly. If you want to think of it that way as well, have your conversations be a little bit more like the Tennis and less. A little bit like the basketball.

Oh, my gosh. That is brilliant. I love that. The first reason I love it is because tennis is undeniably my favorite sport. And then also, it explains a lot of conversations that I've had because I have a friend who is the quintessential extrovert. What's funny is we used to do presentations together, which was hilarious, because it's like, as Kwame gets weaker, Charles gets stronger. And I can see the slack. Exactly. And now I can see it. His mind works like a basketball game. And that's how the conversations go. They're very exciting, but it's like, whoa, I'm exhausted now, Coach, take me out.

I need on the bench for a little while.

Yeah. Oh, that is brilliant. I love it. It's almost like you do this for a living. It's weird.

I know. It's very strange.

Okay. And kind of circling back to something we said earlier, I think some people might be surprised, for example, that I would consider myself anywhere close to introvert on the spectrum. And to your point, sometimes it's kind of hard to tell who is an introvert and who isn't. And so one of the things you mentioned was introverts need time to think in silence versus extroverts, who typically think out loud. What are some other signals that you could use to determine whether or not somebody is more of an introvert or an extrovert?

Well, definitely notice kind of their processing style in terms of conversation and communication. That's really one of the key ones that I would look for. And then if you are the person, and maybe I'm coming at this from that perspective of you're the person that sort of in control, so to speak, of the conversation, you're the one trying to do the persuading. Ask the other person. And not necessarily, are you an introvert or an extrovert, but you can kind of feel around and test the waters, like, you know, I've got some thoughts I want to share. Is now a good time? Would you like to think about this? Do you want to just talk this through? You know, ask certain questions that might give them space to be able to say, like, you might ask me, you know, can we talk this through? And I might say, well, actually, if you could give me the questions and I could think about it, and then we can come back together and then I can talk to you. That's kind of a clue that I'm probably on that introvert side of the spectrum. Whereas the extrovert's gonna be like, okay, let's brainstorm this right now. You know, again, not asking that directly necessarily unless you know the person and you just say, you know, I tend to think that maybe you're an introvert and you, you might wanna be thinking this through. Does that sound right? You know, is that, would that be a good thing for you or would that lead to a more productive conversation and let that person say, yeah, actually that would be really helpful, or no, I'm fine, you know, let's go ahead and do it. Ask about their communication preferences and that's going to tell you a lot.

So for the listeners, I've been on Beth's show twice to talk about negotiation, ish type of stuff. And I created this freebie, the Introvert guide to Negotiation. And so now I'm going to change it up a little bit and add a few more things to the guide because I think it would be cool to have a few feeler questions on there that you could use to see if, if the person you're talking to is an introvert versus an extrovert. Because I think that in negotiation and just conversations in general, but I mean, I see almost every conversation as negotiation. That's my thing, I should stick with it. So, yeah, in any negotiation that you're having, I think that people often overlook the value of small talk because negotiation is an information game and that time in small, spend in small talk is an opportunity for you to gather increased information. And that's when you could start to figure out whether or not somebody is an introvert, how they, how they prefer to process information. And so I'm thinking things like, oh, how do you like to spend your time? Those type of things to see if it's more extroverted or introverted in that sense. And then also maybe when we start to get into the meat of conversation, give a B proposals. Would you prefer to talk this through? Would you just like to take this and think about it and just asking little questions throughout to get an idea, a better profile of the person with whom you're negotiating.

Yeah, and they're going to appreciate that, you know, And I would say as an, as an introvert or an extrovert, if you know, depending on how it goes. Like here's a quick example that has nothing to do with persuasion necessarily, but it has to do with. About communicating and asking for what you want or at least affirming what you want. I went to a new hairdresser yesterday and I put it off for weeks and weeks and weeks. The One I had been with for, like, seven years moved out of state, so I needed to find somebody new. And the thing that I dread is not so much like, ooh, are they going to be good at their job? It's are they going to talk my ear off? You know, how. How can I send out signals, you know, without necessarily being direct, like, please don't talk to me. But I kind of like to just sit in the chair. I don't want the small talk. I don't want to be like, oh, I live on this part of town, and no, I don'. Have children, and yes, I have a dog. You know, I just sort of feel like being quiet and getting my hair cut, you know, and kind of enjoying somebody else taking care of me for, you know, 45 minutes. And so, fortunately, this woman was very. She was rather intuitive because, you know, she asked me a couple questions just about my hair, and then I sat in the chair, and this is what I do. I just close my eyes and typically that most of them will pick up on that as a signal that I just want to be quiet. And she totally did. So when we were done with the haircut, I specifically made a point to thank her. I said, I don't know if you did that on purpose, but I really appreciate it that you just left me space to sit there and be quiet, because that's just kind of what I wanted in that moment. And she said, oh, yeah, I do whatever the customer wants. And some of them want to be entertained, and some people see it as their me time, and they just want to be quiet. You know, the reason I share this is also, it's not just at the beginning of the conversation, but the end if the other person does something that you really appreciate, such as, like, I really appreciated that you gave me time to think, or that we. That you gave me the questions in advance, or that I had time to write down some thoughts, or that you asked me if it was okay if we brainstorm. You know, I really appreciated that because it helped me to give you better responses or to show up more fully or to, you know, get what I wanted out of the conversation. So even if it happens on the back end, to be able to acknowledge that person and that reinforces it for them, and they say, oh, wow, okay. Leaving silence and giving the other person time to think, that's actually a good thing. And I'm going to remember that for next time. It's not always on the other person to figure out what you need. It's also, you can Articulate through both asking for it and affirmation, what it is that's important that helps you to show up and do your best.

This is fascinating. I love that story because. Yeah, so that's positive reinforcement at the end, which makes it a lot more likely that they're going to do the.

Right thing in the future. Like, you're paying it forward a little bit, because then the next person, they'll maybe do the same thing.

Exactly. And also, this is probably like the third episode out of four that I've mentioned this particular principle, but you're utilizing the person. The hairdresser, in a very subtle way, was utilizing the norm of reciprocity. Even though she didn't give you something that was tangible, she was able to feel you out and know what you want, and she gave it to you. And so for most people, they wouldn't even think of that as a concession or a gift of sorts. But. But on your end, it definitely registered as one.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And as a consequence, I'll probably go back to her.

Exactly.

Plus, she gave me a good haircut, so.

That is great. Yeah. When you were telling the story, it reminded me of how I feel when I'm entering an Uber. It's like, man, I don't really want to talk.

Exactly. I sort of avoided it for that reason. Exactly. And as I tell that story, it's like, in a way, we had a negotiation going on the whole time I was sitting there in that chair. Right. But it was a sort of a silent negotiation, and it didn't have anything to do with, you know, words. It had to do with silence and how we can use silence, how we can use body language to basically articulate what we want. And in some ways, my body language, like, persuaded her to the fact that I just wanted to sit there. So please don't talk.

Yeah.

And yes, as you said, that was a gift.

That's beautiful. Do you have any tips for people who are introverts, where sometimes you might start to feel overwhelmed? Like, I am starting to get drained, but there is no escape for me. Is there some kind of socially acceptable way that you found to disengage from conversations when you start to feel burnt out?

There are a few expressions that I think some people have felt like they've gotten cliched, but I still think that they work, which is to say sort of I'm finding this conversation really helpful, or I feel like we're making progress and I'm really. I'm kind of reaching my bandwidth, or I'm kind of maxing out or I can't remember, what's the other expression that has something to do with bandwidth. But I find that those immediately, they're like a shorthand for saying, I'm oversaturated, I've reached my tipping point, and this has ceased to be productive for me. And I really want to be able to be fully present for you and for this. And so is it all right with you if we take a break or a timeout or can we come back to this tomorrow, or can we finish this up on email or in a phone conversation tomorrow? More often than not, it's not life and death. It's not something that has to be settled in the next five minutes. We forget that we don't have to come to closure in conversation one or in that particular moment. We can take space. You know, just as we are uncomfortable with silence, sometimes we're uncomfortable with, like, just taking that little bit of extra time. So I think it's about noticing, when are you hitting the wall? And being able to articulate and say, you know, I think I've reached my maximum point here of being able to absorb this and be a productive contributor. So it would really be beneficial, I think, to me, to you, what we're trying to accomplish here. If we were able to take a break, would that be all right? When would be good for us to come back to this again? You know, asking for what you need and being somewhat fearless about it? Because rarely, like I said, rarely, is it not appropriate or not an option to just take a little bit of time, you know, any false pressure, urgency that you're feeling, you know, challenge that and say, is it really important that we figure this out right now? And if it's not, then give yourself some space.

You know, this is almost turning into a coaching session because you're helping me.

Am I hitting all sorts of points that have come up for you?

Yeah, maybe. I'll change the name of the podcast again to the Introvert Negotiator, because I'm realizing that my style is kind of. And it's so funny. This. My style and the style that I teach is typified by my introvert negotiation style style. Because you think back a few episodes, I had the episode with a listener named Scott, and it was essentially a coaching call with him where we were trying to figure out how to shorten conversations. And then with my negotiation style, I always tell my clients, it's like, listen, you don't need to end this negotiation today. It doesn't need to end in the first conversation. And so when I strategize, usually the first conversation I have is structured to be short. And I let them know beforehand that the conversation is going to be short. I just want to ask a few questions and get to know you. And I tried to talk 10% of the time and get them to talk 90% of the time. Listen. Ended in about 20 minutes and say, okay, let's come back and finish this tomorrow.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I love that. You know, make it clear from the start that the expectation isn't that you're going to come to completion, that this is simply like, here we're opening the door, and then the next time we're going to walk through it, and then the next time we'll figure out where we're going to sit down. You know, see it as stages and set it up that way, which can help you, as the introvert, pace and manage your energy.

Right. And I want to bring up another thing you just. You said earlier, is that sometimes we put false pressure on ourselves. Well, actually, the other side puts false pressure on us. And one thing I keep hearing from attorneys that are very experienced is that I'm not going to allow myself to make bad decisions under false deadlines.

Nice.

You know, people just. Whenever you get a for instance in the legal world, if you get a demand letter and it says, we need an answer in 10 days, it's like, no, you don't. You just made that up. You're going to chill and you're going to get an answer when I'm ready. And I think we could. That's something that we could learn and utilize in our own negotiations, our everyday negotiations, and realize that these deadlines are, for the most part, made up. And you shouldn't allow yourself to make bad decisions because somebody wants to operate on their own time schedule.

Absolutely. Great point.

Very nice. Okay, so before you go, I'd like you to tell us one thing that introverts can do to become better negotiators.

This particular point is something we haven't talked about at all. And it's very simple. I would say everything we've talked about till now, plus one of the things introverts can forget to do. It's going to sound kind of silly, but we forget to say things out loud. I don't know about you, but my inner dialogue can be so robust and rich that I've literally asked my husband, like, we've been driving in the car, and I will say, did I just think something or did I actually say something? Out loud. And he'll be like, you just thought it. I'm like, okay, here's what I was going to say. And I noticed this. I think where I first experienced this was in preparing for presentations like public speaking. I would practice it in my head. You know, I'd sit in front of my laptop, I would scroll through my PowerPoint and I would practice the presentation in my head. And that's fine. But where it really comes to life, where it becomes solidified, where I gain trust in myself, is when I actually say it out loud. And I don't think, because we process internally, I don't think that that is particularly instinctual for introverts. It's like I have to remember, oh yeah, I should say this out loud and then I'll really know how it feels. Then I'll manifest it in a different way. It will become physical and part of me as opposed to just a cerebral intellectual exercise. So as you're going into these conversations and situations, go ahead and lean into your introvert superpower of thinking, processing, reflecting. Know how you're going to open up the conversation. That's often the most stressful part is like those, that first sentence or that, you know, sort of introductory phrase. And then practice saying it out loud to yourself in the car, in your walk in closet, you know, wherever it makes sense. But just practice saying it out loud and really feel it. And when you go into that conversation, it's not going to feel foreign coming out of your mouth because you can think it a hundred times, but when you say, takes on a different life. So I think one thing that we can do to be more persuasive, to be more trusting in ourselves, to be more confident and comfortable, is to remember that one little piece of your preparation. Prepare. Think about what you want to say. Practice saying it out loud so that when you sit down, it just comes out naturally and it doesn't sound foreign to your ears, it sounds like it's you. You.

This is fantastic. And I think one of the reasons why it's so fantastic is that I think we can all relate to the idea of going into our bedroom, into our closet and saying, oh man, I should have said this and that. And you're saying those things allowed to yourself. And so I'm glad you, you normalized that for us. So we didn't think that we're privately weird. We're just humans.

We're just humans.

Yeah, that's good. But, but yeah, I think that's something that a lot of times people overlook when it comes to their preparation. You don't think of an actor saying, oh, I'm going to get ready for this play by thinking alone.

Exactly.

You need to do it.

You need to do it. It's like the Music man. You know, you can't use the Think method to learn music. You've got to actually play the instrument. And so if you want to be comfortable with articulating your thoughts, you have to articulate them.

So beautiful. So what can the listeners do to keep in touch with you?

Please feel free to check out my website. It's the introvertentrepreneur.com and there you'll find my podcast and my blog. Right now my podcast is a little bit more active than my blog, but please check out both. I'm most active on social media on Facebook. So if you search for the introvert Entrepreneur on Facebook, Facebook, that's there. And then you can have sort of an extended experience with me through my book, the Introvert Amplify youy Strengths and Create Success on youn Own Terms, which is available wherever fine books are sold.

Very nice. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Beth. This was a blast.

Thanks, Kwambe. I really appreciate it. I always love talking with you, so thanks for the invitation.

I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you if you are finding this information helpful, please leave a review and subscribe. My goal is to teach these skills to as many people as possible, and leaving a review helps our search results, which helps us to reach more people. And remember, negotiation is where persuasion and problem solving meet. So if you ever have any questions or need help with specific situations, feel free to reach out to me. I'd love to help. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you have a great week and I'll catch you in the next one.